Guild Wars 2

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And you seem to fail to grasp that for casual players some rewards WILL fall outside of the time frame that makes the reward worthwhile for them strive for at the current time. And that that is completely reasonable to expect out of an MMO that’s not on it’s death bed. And with talk of another expansion pack coming, GW2 is not on its death bed.

And you failed to read the word REQUIRED. You aren’t required to max out the PIPS per tick in order to progress in whatever it is that you want. And maybe that was INTENTIONAL. Maybe ANet did not want a majority of players to max out the PIPS per tick. To always give players a drive to play more. And that is the goal of any MMO: to get players to play more. Just because a cap exists, doesn’t mean that ANet expects many players to hit it. To have an urge to move to the outnumbered map – if you’re at cap, where’s the reward for going to an outnumbered map?

And maybe the point about long term goals wasn’t a counter to the fact that it’s currently the first of it’s kind. And I hope they introduce similar mechanics to PvE and PvP. ANet’s allowed to introduce things that do not have something similar in game. They wouldn’t be able to come up with wildly new content or reward schemes if they were locked into keeping everything comparable at every step of the way.

You said there shouldn’t be rewards that can’t earned in a reasonable time frame. So I assumed based on your current position that the time it takes to earn the T3 armor is not a reasonable time frame to you. Therefore, anything that would award players at higher ranks would therefore also be earned in an unreasonable time frame for you.

Or are you just not communicating well that you feel the rank and what not for the T3 armor is fine, you just don’t like the speed at which PIPS are earned? With threads being merged, it’s harder to keep track of who has what exact position.

I wouldn’t have a problem with base PIPS being raised. That way players can still feel some sense of progress without feeling the need to max out. So if the current spread in min PIPS and max PIPS is 10, if the base PIPS are increased by 10, then the max would be raised by 10 as well. 10 is just an example and not necessarily the value that should be used.[/quote]

Where did I imply ALL rewards should be acquired fast, or fall within a current time frame for casual players? Of course rewards such as the last tier or third will take a long time, and there’s nothing wrong with that. It takes 4+months to get the legendary armor, and a few months to get the backpieces. Yet, you’re able to expedite that process reasonably well.

The point is being made is acquiring pips, to go through a tier and pass through wood for example requires a great amount of time, which others have noted as 40hrs+. I asked you where is that present in any game mode that actually has also long term goals, you couldn’t even answer and act obtuse like I’m asking for a 30kAP armor set to be awarded to people who don’t put the time into AP chasing. I even made it clear to you that I’m not talking about T3 armor, I’m talking about T2 or weapons for example, and put it into prospective that it takes a week to just get one T2 boot.

[/quote]

Learn to accept what being a casual is.

Not everything in this game has to be obtained by casuals playing at their usual pace in 1 year or less.

Really, there’s a requirement to play for 40+ hours to even be eligible to get the rewards? I think you’re stretching here by continuously mentioning that. That is only required to max out the PIPS earned per week. Guess what? It’s not required to do that in order to get the rewards. So let’s stop talking about that as if it’s a requirement.

And what, are they supposed to say: sorry those of you at high ranks, you can’t get any rewards specific to your rank, it’s too much of a time commitment for those who play casually? Is that what you’re really trying to suggest?[/quote]

You said, “Learn to accept what being a casual is.”

You do realize you can casually play, and make the process go by faster reasonably through how well you do in every other game mode? See, you don’t seem to realize it’s not about expecting to be awarded the same as people who are higher ranked, the issue is the amount of time required to achieve anything reasonably.

You then said, "Really, there’s a requirement to play for 40+ hours to even be eligible to get the rewards? I think you’re stretching here by continuously mentioning that. "

It’s pointed out right in the OP, where he states "Looking at my pip gain in silver—between 33% and 50% of my total pips are due to my rank. If I was in gold I would be earning over 50% of my pips from my rank. I also play a fair bit on outnumbered maps because I solo and group roam more often than not to support my team. The largest pip gains are outnumbered (largest share of pips earned) followed by slightly less pips from rank.

The problem is multiplicative. I get 2 pips per tick at silver. In the time a bronze player earns 60, I earn 120. Gold earns 180. Platinum earns 240.

The reward track assumes players will earn “enough” pips at a certain playtime per day.

3 pips per tick is 40.27 hours
5 pips per tick is 24.16 hours
7 pips per tick is 16.9 hours
9 pips per tick is 13.42 hours"

You act as if this is analogous to someone complaining they need 30kAP+ to get the radiant or hellfire armor. There’s no issue with those long term goals, just as there’s no complaint that legendary armor will take 4months+ to get or the back-pieces will take a few months or more as well. The issue is laid out when you were asked, show me where in any other game mode does it require for newer players to spend 40+ hrs to get max amount of currencies for some rewards? Instead of comprehending that issue, ones like you move the goal post and say there shouldn’t be instant gratification or expectation of newer players being awarded on par with higher ranked players. The situation would be similar to raiding, if you’re new you can still get max magnetite shards weekly, and go through your collection reasonably well. However, a person that has all the masteries and equipment can get further rewarded more by being able to do the challenge motes, raid sells, and have a easier time clearing, which all again can be achieved through skillful play.

You then said, “And what, are they supposed to say: sorry those of you at high ranks, you can’t get any rewards specific to your rank, it’s too much of a time commitment for those who play casually? Is that what you’re really trying to suggest?”

Why do you have such dichotomous thinking? It’s not a either or issue. The issue isn’t there shouldn’t be long term goals, or ones with high ranks should attain more. Rather the pip system for newer players makes no sense, and goes against other game modes where all the features you want is intact, but with a reasonable amount awarded to everyone, especially those with skillful play.

Chaba.5410:

Musica Arcaida.4685:

In PVP, you want the backpiece (a long term goal), where that’s actual skill than a zerg bukkakke, you get awarded pips and go through the ranks accordingly based on how well you do, which eventually leads to the backpiece in two seasons or three.

Let’s not be misleading though since zerging occurs in sPvP too. Zerging is more likely to result in a loss though because sPvP’s teams are of equal size make zerging inefficient.

Additionally sPvP teams that are well-matched in skill but suffer from a DC can end up losing due to the same population imbalances that are normal for a WvW match. Teams that are outnumbered in sPvP but higher in skill than the other team can still manage to pull off a win.

It would be foolish to say the same thing doesn’t happen in WvW when a smaller group of higher skill can pick apart a lower skilled but more numerous zerg or force the enemy zerging to be inefficient by out-rotating just because it is more difficult to notice. WvW matches are far longer and team sizes, skill, and composition constantly fluctuates through-out the match unlike in sPvP.

It’s not misleading, you can’t zerg in PvP and except to do well. You need to have proper composition, and know how to properly rotate the map accordingly to the weaknesses and strengths you’re facing with the different match-ups within. Even more, if you’re a good player paired with another good player you can out rotate and exploit the weaknesses of the opposing team. WvW besides zerg busters is just a bukkakke fest where you make sure you have proper classes for frontline and backlines with pushing properly with your commander. Acting as if a rank in that game mode is prestigious is a joke.

Seera.5916:

Musica Arcaida.4685:

Seera.5916:

Musica Arcaida.4685:

Sarika.3756:

It’s actually somewhat similar to fractals dailies. If I do t4 fractal dailies, I get all the daily chests. Because I’ve been playing them long enough to have the AR and know the mechanics.

Should high level fractals players have to grind out all the low level dailies, too?

Horrible comparison. ANYONE that does T4 fotms gets rewarded with lower tier chests, the only thing needed is AR, which is gold gated NOT SKILL gated. Even if we were to take what you said on face value, you can progress fast enough to get enough AR to do T4s to gain all chests, again by skillful play. The same can’t be said for WvW newer players spending a inordinate amount of time to get awarded reasonably.

So long term goals are now unreasonable?

It’s not like the first reward given out by the tickets requires rank 2000. There are definitely items that can be purchased while progressing up through the ranks.

You said, “So long term goals are now unreasonable?”.

Are you that obtuse to recognize that the time needed to get the max amount of weekly tickets (To simply get T2 Armor NOT T3 or T4 or Mistforge weapons), or even a good amount of them requires newer players to almost no life? You think that’s reasonable to try forcing people to no life a casual game? Where is that a feature in Raids,T4 Fotms, or PvP? In those game modes again, depending on your skill you can expedite the process of rewards weekly regardless if you’re new or not. There’s long term goals but not to the extent of almost 40hrs+ being required to make a reasonable amount of progress; as is the case in WvW.

I think it’s reasonable for ANet to have things that require 2+ years to get by casuals.

Those things are called long term goals.

Casuals (I am myself a casual) should accept that they will rarely get things done at the same pace as hard core players. And in this instance casual vs hard core is purely a time definition. And that some things will fall out of the realm of what they wish to spend their limited time on. And that that is perfectly fine and acceptable.

Learn the difference between long term goals, and spending 40hrs+ a week to get enough tickets to buy one T2 boots. Where in any other game mode is that a feature of? There have been people in this thread that nicely pointed out the differences with every other game mode to this unreasonable amount time required weekly in WvW for tickets. In T4s Fotms, want all the rewards, spend about 100 to200g on AR and be skilled with a good group, and you’ll progress through your rewards and collection for back-pieces quickly based on your skill. In PVP, you want the backpiece (a long term goal), where that’s actual skill than a zerg bukkakke, you get awarded pips and go through the ranks accordingly based on how well you do, which eventually leads to the backpiece in two seasons or three. Same thing is the case with raids, all long term goals that are achievable at a reasonable pace that’s expedited with skill. Again, show me where in any other game mode does it require for newer players to spend 40+ hrs to get max amount of currencies for some rewards?

Sarika.3756:

It’s actually somewhat similar to fractals dailies. If I do t4 fractal dailies, I get all the daily chests. Because I’ve been playing them long enough to have the AR and know the mechanics.

Should high level fractals players have to grind out all the low level dailies, too?

Horrible comparison. ANYONE that does T4 fotms gets rewarded with lower tier chests, the only thing needed is AR, which is gold gated NOT SKILL gated. Even if we were to take what you said on face value, you can progress fast enough to get enough AR to do T4s to gain all chests, again by skillful play. The same can’t be said for WvW newer players spending a inordinate amount of time to get awarded reasonably.

Ashen.2907:

Musica Arcaida.4685:

Ashen.2907:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

spvp does not mechanically award game time
pve does not mechanically award game time
wvw does mechanically award game time

all game modes award player skill to varying extents and of course if you play any game mode long enough you’ll get more rewards. But im talking about coded systems which reward you simply because your rank/playtime is high with more rewards/easier rewards, independently of what you do in each game mode or how well you play. (basically it awards you more because of your OVERALL play time, even if you are standing there)

wvw system, mechanically the system is fair in the sense that it is the same grind for everyone, the rules do not change from player to player. x number of hours = x number of rewards. But it is a bell curve as i will explain next.

wvw system is unfair in the sense that the penalties associated for new players translates to increased required time spent in order to earn the same rewards as “veteran wvwers.” this can be solved by balancing it or just letting everyone earn the same pips. That way time spent playing wvw = fair amount of rewards gained for the time put in.

If they want to retroactively go back and award everyone (which is what they said they wanted to do). They should not reward “veteran” players by giving them less grind per week to recieve rewards. This makes “veteran” rewards directly penalize newer/lower rank players because in essence that is the reward, penalizing others. The reward in essence is not being handicapped like newer players. This is detrimental and dissuasive to the wvw player base as a whole.

when you take this system and compare it to all other game modes, its completely an outlier and makes no sense to the cohesiveness that is gw2.

The game rewards us for time spent. This is by design. Just the act of having spent the few seconds needed to log in more times than a new player means that I will have accumulated more rewards than he. Killing mobs in queensdale alone , requiring no skill, and little effort, for almost 5 years before someone who joins the game today would mean being able to access rewards faster than they can.

One of the complaints I have seen since launch is that the game does not reward skilled play sufficiently compared to rewards for just showing up and spending time.

In GW2 time > almost anything else. You may not like this, but it isnt unique to wvw and it isnt new. It just happens that this instance involves a situation where some people, who havent spent the time, want the rewards for doing so.

So you’re saying a crappy players in PVP and PVE (T4 Fotms & Raids) will be rewarded nicely regardless of skills, but instead on time they spend as is the case in zerg fiesta? Some of you WvW players make no god kitten sense. In PvE, if you’re good you can progress through your collection and weekly rewards at a faster rate. It’s not based on higher rank as WvW is, but skill regardless if you’re new or not. PVP it’s the same thing, you acquire more pips not based on how many times you lvled up passed dragon rank, but on how well you actually do in matches. It’s perfectly fine to have rewards for higher ranked zerg fiesta players, but stop acting like a system that rewards people for being high ranking and greatly handicaps lower ranks, and not skillful play as is the case in every other game mode is reasonable. I don’t have to spend a inordinate amount of time in PVP or PVE Raids and T4s to be rewarded in a reasonable consistent manner on actual skillful play, but I do in WvW, which makes no sense.

You might want to reread my post because it doesnt say what you claim.

How much skillful play does the largest component content of the game, open world PvE, require?

I am primary a PvE player. Rank 265 reached yesterday.

You said, “How much skillful play does the largest component content of the game, open world PvE, require”

So getting raid kills, and being able to have items interact with raid instances that need to be clear is open world now? You do realize to get through those collections you need to actually get through the raid encounters besides the offshoot objectives?

Ashen.2907:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

spvp does not mechanically award game time
pve does not mechanically award game time
wvw does mechanically award game time

all game modes award player skill to varying extents and of course if you play any game mode long enough you’ll get more rewards. But im talking about coded systems which reward you simply because your rank/playtime is high with more rewards/easier rewards, independently of what you do in each game mode or how well you play. (basically it awards you more because of your OVERALL play time, even if you are standing there)

wvw system, mechanically the system is fair in the sense that it is the same grind for everyone, the rules do not change from player to player. x number of hours = x number of rewards. But it is a bell curve as i will explain next.

wvw system is unfair in the sense that the penalties associated for new players translates to increased required time spent in order to earn the same rewards as “veteran wvwers.” this can be solved by balancing it or just letting everyone earn the same pips. That way time spent playing wvw = fair amount of rewards gained for the time put in.

If they want to retroactively go back and award everyone (which is what they said they wanted to do). They should not reward “veteran” players by giving them less grind per week to recieve rewards. This makes “veteran” rewards directly penalize newer/lower rank players because in essence that is the reward, penalizing others. The reward in essence is not being handicapped like newer players. This is detrimental and dissuasive to the wvw player base as a whole.

when you take this system and compare it to all other game modes, its completely an outlier and makes no sense to the cohesiveness that is gw2.

The game rewards us for time spent. This is by design. Just the act of having spent the few seconds needed to log in more times than a new player means that I will have accumulated more rewards than he. Killing mobs in queensdale alone , requiring no skill, and little effort, for almost 5 years before someone who joins the game today would mean being able to access rewards faster than they can.

One of the complaints I have seen since launch is that the game does not reward skilled play sufficiently compared to rewards for just showing up and spending time.

In GW2 time > almost anything else. You may not like this, but it isnt unique to wvw and it isnt new. It just happens that this instance involves a situation where some people, who havent spent the time, want the rewards for doing so.

So you’re saying a crappy players in PVP and PVE (T4 Fotms & Raids) will be rewarded nicely regardless of skills, but instead on time they spend as is the case in zerg fiesta? Some of you WvW players make no god kitten sense. In PvE, if you’re good you can progress through your collection and weekly rewards at a faster rate. It’s not based on higher rank as WvW is, but skill regardless if you’re new or not. PVP it’s the same thing, you acquire more pips not based on how many times you lvled up passed dragon rank, but on how well you actually do in matches. It’s perfectly fine to have rewards for higher ranked zerg fiesta players, but stop acting like a system that rewards people for being high ranking and greatly handicaps lower ranks, and not skillful play as is the case in every other game mode is reasonable. I don’t have to spend a inordinate amount of time in PVP or PVE Raids and T4s to be rewarded in a reasonable consistent manner on actual skillful play, but I do in WvW, which makes no sense.

A friend of mine deliberately used their legendary heavy armor to crash my game, and then the PTs as a joke two times. Another friend was causing lag with his phantasms using the legendary armor effect, where he had to put a outfit on to stop it. The client freezes up, and basically is useless when it happens where I have to CRTL ALT Delete to exit out. I’m using a 64bit full resolution setting, please fix your legendary armor bugs.

SgtOVERKILL.4701:

Bloomhunger fight is a joke and everything hits you ridiculously hard. It’s not even worth wasting 30+ mins for a clear (if you get one) when you’re reward is minuscule. The whole fight needs to be reworked there is too much running and then you do a burn for 5-10% unless you’re all ranged players. I stood there today thinking wow this is probably the hardest content in the game, harder than any raid boss and for what an agony infusion?(I clear every wing every week so its not over dramatic). Some nights you get lucky and other times its all just frustration and not fun at all. I get making it more advanced than it was previously but atleast make it puggable.

Even Mossman was more fun to fight previously since I’m not just QQ’ing about Bloomy being too hard. Now Mossy is just in a narrow hallway of death, where previously he had a whole area that made it a more unique encounter.

Old swamp was better in every way possible, the other fractal changes were great but this one needs to be reverted.

This does not need to be reverted, perhaps make the reward better for doing this specific fractal maybe. However, this is very puggable. I did it about 5 to 7 times the first week it was released with pugs, and my group who had people that didn’t know the fight at all, and we did it in 10 mins or so with no one going down. I just did it with pugs a few days ago where no one said a word to each other, the only thing they said was complaints of my load time (crappy pc I have), and we one pulled it with one person going down once where he was revived immediately afterwards (took about 10 mins or so for the kill). You’re over exaggerating how difficult this fractal is, the only attack that’s annoying is his projectiles, everything else for the most part is very simple to dodge, he attacks in slow powerful patterns, and old mossman was not better. He was just a HP sponge with annoying wolves, now at-least he can be killed quicker than before with his annoying wolves and transformation, and you wouldn’t even be using most of the area to fight him in the first place with the old swamp.

otome.2673:

Shakki.3219:

new swamp is also a faceroll with 4necro and a druid… only annoying part is the onslaught.. oh well

Why would you run 4 necros there?

Because it’s easier to play and people tend to like to cheese when possible.

Yo, congrats you played yourself (DJ Khaled Voice)

[DJ KHALED] Congratulations you played yourself

That’s far from the truth that everybody does them, my group of friends and guild usually never uses the pole, but really you should simply not run with pugs or people that do that method if you want to complain about it. There will always be away to exploit that fight most likely, so just get in a group that will fight it normally then complain.

Why are you still crying over DH’s? You do realize tempest d/f aurashare eles and bunker chronomancers destroy DH’s besides others out performing them but whatever, keep crying over DH.