Showing Posts For Osaliske.4392:
I preferred DAOC stealth myself of all the games I played
I never had a chance to play DAOC. Was it anything like stealth in Warhammer online?
Also in closing it seems like there are ALOT of WoW players here who want stealth to act just like Rogue’s stealth.
Right now, they have it better than WoW ever did. Being able to use Ambush every 3 seconds with a vanish that can do damage. A-la CnD, and back stab, doubt they want it to work like that. Well, maybe they do.
You don’t need a target to aim ranged attacks. Stealth isn’t much of a disadvantage most of the time because few people actually bother to make it one by staying aggressive. The problem is much less with stealth than it is with people completely giving up and standing around like NPCs do when confronted with stealth. By not being aggressive and trying to track and hit the thief in stealth, the thief’s opponent gives the fight to the thief by making stealth a straight boost instead of a tradeoff. Stealth is an excellent example of a mechanic that is decently balanced given a developed meta, but is utterly broken against someone who doesn’t try to counter it.
Yes, some ranged attacks do require a target to be used. And randomly attacking thin air where the thief use to be and/or where you think they might be, can work. Problem of that of course, is that’s just being lucky that you caught them. Cause, you know, they don’t have shadow step, or dodge roll, or anything that can get them out of melee/danger range. This is most likely one of the majorly frustrating things people are trying to point out.
[edit] I have a thief as well, not that high lvl, but high enough to know a lot of the tricks.
Not sure if someone else already replied to this on the second page or not, but this is my two cents.
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If they would do something like that, they would have to buff us more with defense. More base health. Maybe add something to other abilities that will allow us to tank a bit better or they would have to make our burst even stronger.Any way you look at it, if they nerf something. Then they have to buff something in order to keep some balance and then people will be complaining about that.
So, you’d have to stack some vitality/toughness like everyone else? Oh dear, what a dreadful thought. [/sarcasm]
It just seems that, that line was used by so many thieves in reply to complaints about their insane on demand spike damage.
I decided to play my warrior in WvW, [Hammer+Shout heal build] 3200 armor. I still saw steal, CnD, and back-stab hitting for big numbers. In comparison to my D/D Ele balance build, it really wasn’t much difference.
On Warrior it would be something like 3-5k Steal, 2-5k CnD, 2-9k back stab.
On Elementalist it would be something like 3-6k Steal, 3-6k CnD, and 4-12k back stab.
There are a lot of options that Anet could look into as a way to fix the Thief class. I’d rather not seem them nerfed to the point of pointless, but a lot of data and complaints have been filed. Something needs to be done.
I’m curious if there is Anet employee that can give us a heads up on results from this thread. 25 pages and not much return from them. Curious minds want to know. Thanks.
The damage being taken to you is irrelevant.You have no proof or even an argument to why is it OP or what ever you say its true.Story telling doesn’t cut it.It can be said the same about every other proffesion.Take Warrior for instance , kill shots up to 33k.Don’t complain about 20k ditched in a combo of 3 skills , its ridiculous.
Except it isn’t story telling. Everyone is experiencing this from thieves. The killshot is ridiculous but I haven’t seen one like that ever and has been months since I’ve been hit with one that just took me out. Thieves are a problem that is everyday and everywhere.
Yes , it is story telling.Some numbers on some screenshot doesn’t prove a thing.I could sit in place , let myself killed by some random guy ,then show the numbers , ohh Warrior is so OP.Thieves are fine , no ones having problems in sPvP or tPvP whit them.All the complaints come from idiots whit 0 experience in WvW.
You can skew anything to look like it is something else if you present the evidence that is in your favor. That is a no brainer. That does not mean that there isn’t a problem. Btw, if thieves are ‘fine’ then why is there an entire developer made thread setup for people to talk about how they are not fine? They don’t need nerfing imo but some pretty good tweaking is in order.
This tread exists only because of the ammount of whiners that don’t know how to play.Doesn’t mean thief actualy needs tweaking.If anything thief needs some improvements because on a proffesional level Thief doesn’t perform as good as some other classes.But I realy don’t expect you to see beyond a ridiculously bad build and WvW.
95% of you whiners never even brought a valid argument to any of your complaints , only shown some Screenshots whit numbers that don’t prove A SINGLE THING.
Actually, people are bringing up some very valid points. While you don’t have to agree with them, they are there.
Lets take a look at a few things that a lot of people are seeing as a problem:
Stealth – by itself, not completely crazy; but when you add the fact that it can increase ini gain, and give better regen than a lot of classes, you start to see it gain a lot more power. The culling/rendering is also a factor to consider into stealth. One thing that A few of us were talking about earlier in game, was the fact that the “revealed” debuff really isn’t doing it’s job. We have been noticing that some builds are basically by passing this, hence the permanent stealth appearance, or at least like the P/D condition build, attack, disappear, rinse/repeat . Basically it comes down to Stealth having way too much synergy with itself.
Burst damage – Yup, thief is suppose to have good burst dps. Ok, burst should not mean 100% to 15%-10% in one preloaded keybind. Steal+CnD+BS = free kill. There is no setup from might, or other build ups, it’s hit 3 attacks to win. Now, each one of these three attacks don’t seem too bad on their own, but being able to front load them all we quickly see where the problem comes from. Mug is pretty low on the trait table, and does some amazing damage. CnD also can do solid damage, which also gives stealth, and can add vulnerability to the target. Finally we get to back stab, for all intense purposes, it should be the big hitter. Though it should not completely end most fights if it lands. It also should not be setup so easily. Heck, thieves even have abilities that already put you right behind your target.
PvP types – sPvP/tPvP, pretty sure they still have a rather strong showing there. While the culling and rendering may not give them as much of an advantage due to smaller scale combat, they still bring a lot to the table. Especially in mobility side of things.
- WvW, yeah, this is where a lot of the complaints come from, rendering/culling gives them a major advantage. They also have very large open spaces where they can easily capitalize on with their mobility. It seems that Thieves are becoming a lot more common now. Earlier when I was defending a tower, and running supply, I noticed 7 of 10 players running by to attack my tower where thieves.
While I don’t want to see the class made useless, they certainly need to tone down some of their burst, and mobility to prevent them from being able to come and go as they please. They should have to relay on team work just like other classes.
Lastly, and this is just more of a pet peeve, it’s spelled “with”, not “whit”.
How do we know this isn’t getting a warrior with Frenzy on? That would easily hit this hard on a GC warrior with frenzy up.
As for “lawl, QQ bout backstabz” Warriors can’t stealth and repeat when they miss, screw up, etc.
I doubt the shot was setup on purpose, but I’m pretty sure it was most likely something to the effect of either lowbie, frenzy debuffed, etc.
Guess you guys have never seen a proper D/D ele, bunker guardian, 30K hp warrior, 30K hp necro, shatter mesmer, or burst engineer.
Get some vitality and tank builds going. Glass cannon builds are not for WvW. Running a glass cannon build is asking for it. Learn to counter a thief. Countering backstab thieves is 100% L2P issue. There are other thief builds that are more deadly, and less prone to easy counters. Backstab thief is…horribly inefficient….
@bunzy
Mist form when he gets in range of steal. You will see him approaching you. If he’s in stealth and approaching you it screws up the entire chain with revealed. Then knock his kitten down with the electric charge elementalists have and kill. A thief like that undoubtedly has 10875 HP considering no boosts..
Question, so why are thieves the only class that is “allowed” to be able to use full zerker gear with little to no risk?
Why does everyone else have to use a tank build, and boost hp as high as possible, just to stand a chance versus a thief?
This is what I’m getting from your post, you must mean something a bit different I’m sure. Can’t say its a compelling argument. Pretty sure that not every class can burst 10875 hp in the time it takes them to pop shadow leap, or heal ability. At which point, fight is basically reset.
I hope the developers don’t listen too much to the ‘Need to be more like WoW’ comments. The general ideas of the encounters in the dungeons are awesome. The only problem I’ve had with them is bosses with too much health and a few bugs/balancing issues.
Bugs are one thing, but there is a problem when the trash mobs, (or sheer volume of trash per pull) is harder than the bosses. The problem comes when everyone has to play all three roles, in a dungeon design that seems more setup for the usual trinity. Mobs stick to one person till they die, some classes don’t have the ability to deal with that.
Also remember that these dungeons aren’t the equivalent to WoW dungeons but rather WoW raids. That’s what the dungeons were intended to be…Difficult.
Even WoW raids were not as thrown together as some of these dungeons feel. CM exp. the hallway filled with traps that takes you to a room with a 40 mob pull. In which half are silver. If something wasn’t totally messed up, than you wouldn’t see people constantly looking for some sort of exploit or gimmick to bypass the trash.
If people are just standing auto-attacking then they are almost certainly being carried by the rest of the group. It’s about teamwork, figuring out the most efficient ways of combining the different professions abilities to make the run smoother. By being responsible not just for yourself but for the others in your team.
What I think they mean by that, is that at times you have to run around auto attacking and just avoid all the damage that’s being thrown around. Judging by the context of that mod’s claim tho, he was playing a ranged class. Melee characters most often are forced to get away from the mob a lot.
Over the last two months the QQ’ing about dungeons has decreased to just the particular fights that are really hard or a bit buggy. I’m so happy you stuck to your guns about difficulty and I hope it remains so. I remember when everyone said how hard AC was. People need to learn how to play their profession, how to play in a team and how to deal with the mechanics.
If you dislike dungeons you’re most likely playing them wrong, playing with the wrong people or they are simply not for you in which case you should consider playing a game you do enjoy or content you do find fun rather than the content changing for your sake.
That’s my two cents anyway. I considered not posting but most people who love the dungeons are actually out there enjoying the game, avoiding these topics and so I felt the need to say something about it.
While I agree with some of that statement, your still going to run into problems where the dungeon feels like chaos and a kite fest. Or insta-gib attacks happen out of nowhere (either by bug, spam CC to death, or insane auto attacks type mobs). While I enjoy a challenge, the basic design of the dungeons in GW2 is flawed.