Guild Wars 2

Purple Miku.7032:

@Paul Kay
To answer your question, nope not really. It’s pretty much the best.

I solo Arah all of the time. However, I never cheat in them. All bosses are killed, I don’t jump over or under the map, and I sometimes even kill optional champs + always kill Korga.

Arenanet has already mentioned that as long as you aren’t exploiting, they’re fine with path selling. All of the people telling you otherwise are likely either believing their friends that tell them they got banned for no reason or spreading rumors passed on by said people. Afterall think about it logically — considering the fact that hardly any bugs/exploits have been fixed since launch, does it make sense for Arenanet staff to be focusing their time seeking out people to ban? Of course not.

Selling dungeon paths is legal provided you do not cheat. If you do cheat and get caught, you’re going to be permanently banned no matter how many times you beg in email. Not worth it.

Okay, so can You or someone else now explain to me who’s best for Arah solo’ing? Do You have a guide for that per chance?
What exactly is path selling and how do people cheat in Arah solo’ing? You mean like scamming the path buyers?

Charak.9761:

solo arah, sell spots, 20g/hr

Anything tops this =p?

Other than Frostgorge Champion trains, trading in auction house and selling gems for IRL money, what is the most efficient way to farm gold?

Carpboy.7145:

Dont use this in PVE at all

Why though? Wouldn’t Torment-based damage omit the issues with condition damage builds?

Viking Jorun.5413:

It doesn’t seem very consistent for me in WvW. I’ll have 3 conditions on an enemy and it’ll hit for 7k, while sometimes I’ll have 6 conditions stacked on them and it’ll only crit for 2.4k.

Are You suggesting it’s bugged? :o

Renny.6571:

Open world events such as Wurm and Teq. Can’t think of anything else.

That’s anyone’s first thought, but I wanted someone’s specific numbers on that.

I hear people say condition damage builds are not too good due to stacking.
So I thought – which condition damage type is most rare- the answer is: Torment.
Think there’s a way to build a good Torment-based build, with Torment runes and sigils, using multiple poisons(including Skale Venom ) and pistol+dagger Shadow Strike. Something along those lines.

Was this done by someone successfuly? Think that’d work well? In PvE and PvP alike?

Thanks.

By most, as in more than other Phantasms?
How many conditions are required on target? Curious.

After playing around with 20/10/20/0/20 for a while, the Staff Toughness bonus made me sort of forfeit the idea of Knight’s armor. So I’ll go full Zerker, as you like it so much :p

Much thanks for Your input ! <3

maxinion.8396:

Paul Kay.4891:

Pyroatheist.9031:

Paul Kay.4891:

What about the point about Celestial Gear?

Due to how crit damage currently works, celestial gear has a higher ratio of crit damage than it does other stats, and this is getting a huge nerf with the change to ferocity.

Paul Kay.4891:

Would you consider running something else than Zerkers if it got nerfed? If so, what =]?

We will run whatever is best. If they nerf power-based gear so badly that it becomes worse than condition damage, I’ll probably just stop doing dungeons altogether.

Paul Kay.4891:

Also, What’s PU?

Prismatic understanding, grandmaster chaos trait.

What’s the change to Ferocity =]?

Prismatic Understanding I assume is all about Decoy Mass Invisibility and The Prestige? How does that work?

Perhaps I could craft Celestial gear instead of making a mix of Knight’s/Berserker’s. Seems to fit my “rounded” build. What do You think?

Also, I respect your dedication to minmaxing :p Sorry we could not come to an agreement earlier:p

The ferocity change refers to the upcoming change in how critical damage is calculated (with a new base stat called Ferocity, much like crit chance is related to Precision). Celestial is expected to be hit hard by this, but we don’t know yet. I’ll use whatever is best at the end of the day, but I sure as hell hope it is something similar to Berserker’s as that promotes the most interesting/skillful play.

Celestial is fine for WvW. I wouldn’t ever bring it into PvE— stats like extra condition damage are not going to be very useful for you, while a zerker/knight’s/soldier’s combination focuses only on the important stats. Celestial is also time consuming and expensive to make compared to other gear, so I dislike it immediately because of that.

PU is a trait for making your stealth better (and gives you boons when you’re stealthed), and many pvp/wvw players use it. People make very bunker-based builds that are impossible to kill with this trait because they keep hiding. But again, that’s different from tanking, where you hold aggro and try to divert it from your allies. Mesmers can bunker (survive/hide) but they cannot really tank reliably.

To be honest I’m quite happy to hear about that Ferocity change.
Whenever possible, more than one “correct” way to play would be best, for me at least :p

So, Knight’s armor, Zerker weapons and trinkets, that sounds about right? Power Infusions, Scholar Runes?

Could you run down how a typical bunker plays out?

Pyroatheist.9031:

Paul Kay.4891:

What about the point about Celestial Gear?

Due to how crit damage currently works, celestial gear has a higher ratio of crit damage than it does other stats, and this is getting a huge nerf with the change to ferocity.

Paul Kay.4891:

Would you consider running something else than Zerkers if it got nerfed? If so, what =]?

We will run whatever is best. If they nerf power-based gear so badly that it becomes worse than condition damage, I’ll probably just stop doing dungeons altogether.

Paul Kay.4891:

Also, What’s PU?

Prismatic understanding, grandmaster chaos trait.

What’s the change to Ferocity =]?

Prismatic Understanding I assume is all about Decoy Mass Invisibility and The Prestige with that trait? How does that work?

Perhaps I could craft Celestial gear instead of making a mix of Knight’s/Berserker’s. Seems to fit my “rounded”, all-purpose build. What do You think?

Also, I respect your dedication to minmaxing :p Sorry we could not come to an agreement earlier:p

maxinion.8396:

The nerf incoming is going to nerf critical damage, and make every damaging spec slightly worse because of that. Berserker will be hit least of all. Once again, for PvE: zerker all the way. It’s better to have zerker trinkets and weapon, and knight’s/soldier’s armor if you want survivability.

Your toughness is a waste because you have no way of controlling the aggro. Guardians sometimes take full Knight’s gear to have more toughness to draw the aggro, and then spam blinds and aegis to mitigate the damage that they attract. You have no way, as a mesmer, to actively mitigate damage like this (actually, sword/sword would give you an extra evade and block, but you’re refusing to use them).

Remember: stats in this game do not make you a tank. Abilities and traits do. And as a mesmer, you just don’t have the ability to tank effectively. (You can bunker effectively with PU, but that’s different from tanking).

That’s quite informative, thanks!

What about the point about Celestial Gear?

Would you consider running something else than Zerkers if it got nerfed? If so, what =]?

Also, What’s PU?

Carighan.6758:

Despite all the back and forth, do keep in mind that GS/Staff is bad, in dungeons.

It is close to the best weapon setup for open world content (though a Focus to swap to would be really handy :P ), and it is a very good performer in WvW due to being useful both in smaller parties and in larger groups.
Depends on spec, though. 20/20/30 can work well, but you need to be ok with being something of a boon-supplier in that case. You’ll be good at it, tbh. Just not good at raw damage. 20/30/20 can be fun in WvW especially, you get some extra quickness and your clones have better on-death traits that way.

As Pyro said repeatedly, in Dungeons it is the worst setup you can choose, but somewhat easy to fix. If you’re 20/20/30 spec, go for Sword/Sword/ Staff, and you can swap some traits around and you should be ok. Far from top-tier, but you probably won’t hold any groups up by a noticeable amount.

One point is gear.
In PvE, you probably want Berserker gear. This seems weird at first with Staff, but the Phantasm is all about power-scaling, so it works ok, most of the time in open PvE you attack with the GS anyway, and use Staff for support/defence.
For WvW, you probably want either Knight or Soldier. You could consider Celestial, but until it is clear where they’re going with the stat-change, I wouldn’t look into it much (if they do refund all stat points spread over all stats, it could be pretty good WvW gear for that setup, tbh).

(edit)
I do however agree that from your comments, Mesmer is the last class you want to play. Even Thieves are more straightforward combat oriented than Mesmers.

Thanks!
I suppose I’ll do a mix of Knight/Soldier Trinkets with Toughness Infusions and Berserker Armor for some well-roundedness :p
i’m just not a fan of the sword(I know, it sounds silly, but I just don’t), I prefer to be in and out of melee while I output dps as I choose :p

So far it looks more like 20-10-20-0-20 though :p

Also, why Celestial gear 0_o? It looks rather… strange. All of you guys being min-maxers that surprises me :p

maxinion.8396:

Paul Kay.4891:

hendo.1940:

I don’t see how you stacking toughness and vitality and hiding behind your illusions is “taking it like a man” whereas chaining reflects where even the slightest point of error causes you to be one-shotted isn’t.

I honestly don’t get this community.

Also:

1)Iirc Spatial surge is 3 instances of damage, Zerker is 4~ instances, Winds of Chaos is 2+ instances of damage. That’s insufficient?

Yes. duelist, 8 bleeds, warden, 12.

Then I pass off like 15+ might stacks from Mirrorblade on top of what bounced to my allies. Good for stacking, no?

No. Blasted fire fields are.

I fight alongside them, I just kite around until I got 3 illusions then I come in last. So perhaps it’s more about being a minion leader than a yolo tank.

Don’t Winds of Chaos/Mirrorblade illusions attack much more frequently than Defender and duelist, evening it out?

Otherwise; If the Bleed’s not that potent, then maybe I should just take Chaotic Dampening for Staff?

Blasted fire fields? Mind elaborating :p? You mean Combo Field: Blast? I’m not sure I know what you mean here :p

Illusions still don’t attack often enough to make up for the huge stacks from warden/pistol. This is a small additional source of damage for you, and the points might be used better elsewhere, like for Chaotic Dampening, as I suggested.

Blasted fire fields = Combo Field: Blast, yes. That’s what hendo was referring to— a good, useful form of support. The support you provide with boons as a mesmer is just bad, even with Chaos Storm and everything— it’s unreliable at best and ruins fire fields at worse, kittening off your team.

Every time you mention “tanking” you are making your build even worse/less effective/ more dead weight, even in PUG groups. We were talking 20-50% effectiveness before, but now we’re talking about 1-10%. If you’re using range weapons, why do you even need to have toughness/vitality for tanking? You already are putting an insane amount of points into Chaos for toughness, the extra from your gear is not needed.

Power + prec + crit damage are all crucial for PvE. Deviate from those three, and your build is getting worse and worse.

Hm, all right. I’ll take Dampening and see if it works better for me. Other classes seem to be better at stacking bleed anyway and I got Winds of Chaos for some potential bleed I suppose.

Aren’t Zerker gear meant to be nerfed?

I thought of Toughness also because supposedly it decides aggro and Illusions with high toughness would allow my illusion to take a hit my allies close by won’t. That was my logic anyway.

Also, what about that combo field?

hendo.1940:

I don’t see how you stacking toughness and vitality and hiding behind your illusions is “taking it like a man” whereas chaining reflects where even the slightest point of error causes you to be one-shotted isn’t.

I honestly don’t get this community.

Also:

1)Iirc Spatial surge is 3 instances of damage, Zerker is 4~ instances, Winds of Chaos is 2+ instances of damage. That’s insufficient?

Yes. duelist, 8 bleeds, warden, 12.

Then I pass off like 15+ might stacks from Mirrorblade on top of what bounced to my allies. Good for stacking, no?

No. Blasted fire fields are.

I fight alongside them, I just kite around until I got 3 illusions then I come in last. So perhaps it’s more about being a minion leader than a yolo tank.

Don’t Winds of Chaos/Mirrorblade illusions attack much more frequently than Defender and duelist, evening it out?

Otherwise; If the Bleed’s not that potent, then maybe I should just take Chaotic Dampening for Staff?

Blasted fire fields? Mind elaborating :p? You mean Combo Field: Blast? I’m not sure I know what you mean here :p

maxinion.8396:

Paul Kay.4891:

maxinion.8396:

Paul Kay.4891:

maxinion.8396:

Such pyroatheist in this thread. Wow. It’s blunt, but he really does have the most accurate comments.

I’ll be a little more generous. If you’re running with a party that actually knows what they’re doing (all melee, all meta builds), a GS+staff mesmer build is 100% dead weight and the rest of the team is just 4-manning the dungeon. If you’re running with typical PUGs (shout heal rifle warriors, AH cleric guardians, etc.) you’ll be doing alright because everyone will be bad. If you’re fine with that, go for it.

Perhaps I belong to pugs, sounds like I’ll enjoy company of people who just want to have fun and not mechanical efficiency:p

Honestly that sounds best for you. Just make sure to join PUGs that say “anyone welcome,” and specifically avoid ones that say “speed clear” or “fast run” or “meta builds.” If you have a casual guild to play with, you’ll probably be equivalent to whatever builds (bearbows, etc.) they’ll be running as well.

The content is finishable with just about any build. If you’re happy with dealing 20-50% of the best damage possible, then you’re fine, but won’t fit into the meta-speedclear groups.

Here’s what I have more or less right now(gear exotic and zerker atm though, it’s “planned” gear):
http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/mesmer/?4.2|6.5n.a1s.d1c.0.0|1.5n.a1s.d1c.0.0|5n.7m.5n.7m.5n.7m.5n.7m.5n.7m.5n.7m.d1c.d1c.d1c.d1d.d1c.d1c|41j.d1c.31j.0.3u.0.31j.d1c.3u.d1c.3u.d1c|k0a.f2.f4.0.k37|0.0|6q.3m.38.3l.3q|e

Bear in mind, 1.5 year gone and I’m still trying to figure out things

Feedback welcome :p

Ok, so feedback on this build:

1) Dueling: why 15? The 15, which gives bleeds to your phants, is useless (it’s only good for warden and duelist, who hit with lots of small attacks and give lots of bleeds). Either drop it to 10, or take it to 20 and take Deceptive Evasion.
2) Domination: you don’t have a 10 skill selected— I guess you’re doing Empowered Illusions though?
3) Chaos: why points in this line? You don’t take enough for Chaotic Dampening, which is the only useful one for you here. Maybe reduce dueling to 10 and take chaos to 20. Keep in mind though that chaos adds toughness, a mostly useless stat in PvE, while dueling adds precision, which is actually useful.

Your gear atm is mostly Knight’s it seems like. You probably should change that to Zerker as you mentioned in your comments.

1)Iirc Spatial surge is 3 instances of damage, Zerker is 4~ instances, Winds of Chaos is 2+ instances of damage. That’s insufficient?

2) Yes, my bad

3) The 15 allows me to have Protection that much more often on myself. I use chaos storm on myself and the enemy at the same time, I stay in short range so I can benefit from buffs from Chaos Armor/Chaos Storm which I ten pass on with my Boon. Then I pass off like 15+ might stacks from Mirrorblade on top of what bounced to my allies. Good for stacking, no?

I kinda want my illusions to tank and be able to take some hurt myself so I’ve been thinking of sacrificing Crit damage for either Vitality or/and Toughness. Not sure if that’s wise, but I feel insufficiently tanky as of now. Not sure if crit damage is that important. Hm. Also wondering if Illusions could benefit from Dolyak HP regen. Could be very potent defense.

Thank You! =D

maxinion.8396:

Paul Kay.4891:

maxinion.8396:

Such pyroatheist in this thread. Wow. It’s blunt, but he really does have the most accurate comments.

I’ll be a little more generous. If you’re running with a party that actually knows what they’re doing (all melee, all meta builds), a GS+staff mesmer build is 100% dead weight and the rest of the team is just 4-manning the dungeon. If you’re running with typical PUGs (shout heal rifle warriors, AH cleric guardians, etc.) you’ll be doing alright because everyone will be bad. If you’re fine with that, go for it.

Perhaps I belong to pugs, sounds like I’ll enjoy company of people who just want to have fun and not mechanical efficiency:p

Honestly that sounds best for you. Just make sure to join PUGs that say “anyone welcome,” and specifically avoid ones that say “speed clear” or “fast run” or “meta builds.” If you have a casual guild to play with, you’ll probably be equivalent to whatever builds (bearbows, etc.) they’ll be running as well.

The content is finishable with just about any build. If you’re happy with dealing 20-50% of the best damage possible, then you’re fine, but won’t fit into the meta-speedclear groups.

Here’s what I have more or less right now(gear exotic and zerker atm though, it’s “planned” gear):
http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/mesmer/?4.2|6.5n.a1s.d1c.0.0|1.5n.a1s.d1c.0.0|5n.7m.5n.7m.5n.7m.5n.7m.5n.7m.5n.7m.d1c.d1c.d1c.d1d.d1c.d1c|41j.d1c.31j.0.3u.0.31j.d1c.3u.d1c.3u.d1c|k0a.f2.f4.0.k37|0.0|6q.3m.38.3l.3q|e

Bear in mind, 1.5 year gone and I’m still trying to figure out things

Feedback welcome :p

Pyroatheist.9031:

So uh, you should probably just drop Mesmer right now. This entire class is about deception, reflects, stealth, misdirection, trickery. You sound like you might like a warrior instead, they’re nice and boring and straightforward for you.

Paul Kay.4891:

Let’s say I enjoy ranged play more than melee play, even though I’m positive it’s lesser damage than melee sword. Sadly Arenanet didn’t heed Mesmer’s call for a main-hand pistol(yet?), would run that so much if that were possible =p

Well, this means you should probably go play ele, because their highest dps is available with staff. You’ll probably refuse to use conjured weapons and fail that too, but it’s worth a try.

Paul Kay.4891:

I’d rather take it like a man than play around with reflects which isn’t Feedback, even if it would take a while longer.

Yeah, I find it adorable that you’re playing Mesmer and talking about ‘taking it like a man’. You’re barking so far up the wrong tree that it’s not even funny anymore. As I mentioned before, Mesmer is a class that doesn’t ‘take it like a man’. We have so many ways to avoid taking it like a man’ because that is the entire design concept of the class. You honestly should just stop.

I never said I don’t like deception and misidirection, I just preferred to do it via illusions, not by barriers and zones.

Eles are fine but are not able misdirect aggro as well iirc. And yes, not a fan of conjured weapons.

Probably the closest would be a minion master/life stealing Necromancer that provides support and dps from mid-range.

I’m sorry if I sound stubborn or misidirected, I’m just not fond of doing what everyone else does just because it’s “considered” best.

Guess I’ll just play my way until I hit a wall and don’t feel my build works anymore then either reroll or poke at it and modify it until it works =]

I’ll dig around a Warlock/phantasm’ish build and see how it works out for me =]

maxinion.8396:

Such pyroatheist in this thread. Wow. It’s blunt, but he really does have the most accurate comments.

I’ll be a little more generous. If you’re running with a party that actually knows what they’re doing (all melee, all meta builds), a GS+staff mesmer build is 100% dead weight and the rest of the team is just 4-manning the dungeon. If you’re running with typical PUGs (shout heal rifle warriors, AH cleric guardians, etc.) you’ll be doing alright because everyone will be bad. If you’re fine with that, go for it.

Perhaps I belong to pugs, sounds like I’ll enjoy company of people who just want to have fun and not mechanical efficiency:p

Ptolemy.5086:

Why do you even ask other ppl opinion and then start kittening match when ppl give you their opinion based on a lot of experience.

Sorry if you had that impression, I’m just trying to work around the meta in a reasonable manner and make the most well-rounded build for dungeons/pvp/wvw/pve :p

Ptolemy.5086:

What Pyro was trying to explain here with your build and armor set weapons you choose are not being used with maximum efficiency. Staff can be very good weapon for medium to high cond. builds but for someone in Zerk armor it is waste.

I’m aware of that; I wasn’t aiming for cond damage though as much as landing as many types of conditions so Phantasmal Warlock can do most damage.

So far I’m thinking of either going for condition damage+toughness for a pure condition damage build(only solo I guess :S) or Power precision toughness and just use enmasse conditions for strong Warlocks. I’m not trying power + precision + crit damage as it’s more 1h Sword oriented.

Also, isn’t Zerker gear about to be nerfed :p?

Xyonon.3987:

Pyro is one of the best and most expirienced mesmers around here. He’s probably the only one who I beleve something without testing it myself. And he’s right here too, most of the time :P imo

Everyone can talk good and bad about a weapon, where some say “GS aa is so bad it almost heals the enemy” and others say “GS has a great AoE potential, good for opening and trash”. Both are right. So in the end it’s the desicion of the user if it’s worth taking a weapon in a specific situation. Aslong as you try different weapons against a boss, you realize wich weapon really fits the best. Better than just using X all the time for semigood results.

The staff isn’t that bad imo. Its a good PvE boss kiting and dps weapon. You have the strongest phantasm, you have a meatshield (2) wich may be similiar to a aegis selfbuff and you got a pretty ok aoe goodforme-badforyou field.
The main reason not to take the staff seems to be the aa. But now you have to decide:

• can you simply stack and dd? well bad choice, go for a sword
• will your phants die fast, will you never reach 3 phants -> maybe (!) scepter
• do you have condispammers, are there enough conditions to outdamage scepter + pistol?
• does the boss have a hold, blink, projectile you wanna evade? would it make more sense to block it? are you able to block it? scepter?
• do you really need range?
• do you have to be on long range + your phants die often? GS?

There are so many things you could add to that list. But in the end the staff has it’s place and the aa hits single target for 1-3k depending on buffs and condition applied + it deals passive damage from the might / fury you may grant. Sure you SEE better numbers at the sword, but passvie dmg still exists.

I do not doubt and I really appreciate the expertise of You both. I’m just on the verge of totally abandoning this class; playing around reflects, stealth and zones is just not what I intended this character to be about :/

Let’s say I enjoy ranged play more than melee play, even though I’m positive it’s lesser damage than melee sword. Sadly Arenanet didn’t heed Mesmer’s call for a main-hand pistol(yet?), would run that so much if that were possible =p

3 Zerkers for AoE and 3 Warlocks for 1v1 is what I was aiming at, with bouncing winds of chaos and Mirrorblades in between.
I’d rather take it like a man than play around with reflects which isn’t Feedback, even if it would take a while longer.
As for condition spams – I considered working around winds of chaos + chaos storm + bleeds from precision and the “when killed” traits if that would be insufficient; Debilitating Dissipation(Bleed/Vuln/Weakness), Crippling Dissipation(Cripple), Confusing Combatants(Confusion) are something I had in mind, too. Not sure if those apply if the illusions and phantasms are merely “shut down”.

Do I have to be in ranged distance? No, I don’t have to, hence the bounces =] – do I wanna have the option? Yes.
I could try Scepter + Pistol + Staff/GS if that’d work, I really just am against using Main-hand sword and Off-hand Focus.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Paul Kay.4891:

Pyroatheist.9031:

If that’s what you want to hear, then sure. You can’t play mesmer well in dungeons without looking like a total wuss. You heard it here first folks.

Honestly, your whole attitude about this is ridiculous. Look, if you want to play how you want, then go for it. But the facts remain that your build is bad, and you’ll be a dead weight on your team. You can’t argue otherwise, you can’t contest the facts. If you want to play with that build, you’ll simply have to accept that and move on.

You want to find some sort of way to play with your build and not be useless. There isn’t.

Bluntness is fine, just be considerate about it. I join back after 1.5 year and meet a rather stale, boring, not too fun meta; are you really surprised I wanna go for suboptimal weapon choices just to find something that’s more interesting/fun?

I’m not really contesting, just wishing things were different and poking at the skill builder in hopes something other than what’s in the meta will pop out and will work for me.

I’m curious really – if You were cornered into going GS/Staff, how would you go around optimizing it for Dungeon?

Focus on phantasm cooldowns and damage. Your personal damage will be absolute crap, so you’ll be banking 100% on phantasms. Both damage traits (domination III and inspiration 25) are a must, as well as the phantasm hp trait (inspiration V). Along with that you’ll definitely need the phantasm signet and signet of illusions to help boost your phantasm uptime. The build would look like 20/10/0/25/15 probably, with the potential of doing 10/20 in domination/dueling.

It still wouldn’t be very good, but you’d at least do a bit of damage.

I knew you had it in You
Thanks

Pyroatheist.9031:

If that’s what you want to hear, then sure. You can’t play mesmer well in dungeons without looking like a total wuss. You heard it here first folks.

Honestly, your whole attitude about this is ridiculous. Look, if you want to play how you want, then go for it. But the facts remain that your build is bad, and you’ll be a dead weight on your team. You can’t argue otherwise, you can’t contest the facts. If you want to play with that build, you’ll simply have to accept that and move on.

You want to find some sort of way to play with your build and not be useless. There isn’t.

Bluntness is fine, just be considerate about it. I join back after 1.5 year and meet a rather stale, boring, not too fun meta; are you really surprised I wanna go for suboptimal weapon choices just to find something that’s more interesting/fun?

I’m not really contesting, just wishing things were different and poking at the skill builder in hopes something other than what’s in the meta will pop out and will work for me.

I’m curious really – if You were cornered into going GS/Staff, how would you go around optimizing it for Dungeon?

Pyroatheist.9031:

I’m not being condescending, I’m being blunt. Your build will do poor damage due to it being unfocused in traiting and lacking access to the top damage phantasms, as well as utilizing the 2 weapons with the lowest autoattack damage. It has no access to good reflect uptime, 0 traits in the support/utility tree of inspiration, no good mob control, and very poor boon stripping. It does all this while still managing to be squishier than a standard build due to your traiting.

Again, I’m not being condescending, I’m being blunt. Your build is bad for all the reasons I’ve stated before, you just don’t want to hear it.

Bluntness is fine, just be considerate about it. I join back after 1.5 year and meet a rather stale, boring, not too fun meta; are you really surprised I wanna go for suboptimal weapon choices just to find something that’s more interesting?

I’m curious really – if You were cornered into going GS/Staff, how would you go around optimizing it for Dungeon?

hendo.1940:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CKyzb3CDHc

do this with GS/Staff

This looks honestly boring, exploit-like and nothing fun about playing at a corner stacking zones. :/
Not saying GS/Staff is more efficient, but at least it fights its enemies head on.
So what you’re telling me is I can’t play Mesmer well in Dungeons without looking like a total wuss?

Pyroatheist.9031:

Paul Kay.4891:

Pyroatheist.9031:

Well, to be blunt, you’re wrong. A damage skill once every 4.8 seconds, requiring traiting 20 into domination (which is a poor choice) is not even remotely close to an autoattack. It simply doesn’t add up.

Again, it will work. It’ll just be bad. If you’re ok with being the weak link in every party, then go for it.

Man, you’re being depressing, no offense.
After spending(read: wasting) over 100 g on different sets of armors/weapons and rerolls I just decided I was okay with my prior build just as well(just needed a little more toughness). Just won’t be joining those elitist zerg teams. Maybe it was a mentality thing after all.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vgAQJARGIJMfo3oUg9sTShqTd5D4G-zABBZmFRjt4qIas6aYKXER1iCIiA-e

Here’s how it looks like at the moment.
Kinda tough choice between 25 dom or 15 Chaos, I’ll see if I need either more as I go on.
Not sure if I really need the crit damage but likely I’ll just alternate between Berserker and Knight sets.
Would welcome tips for equipment/sigil/rune setup and that’ll be it for me

It’s not so much an issue of elitist teams as it is an issue of personal performance. With that build you simply will be unable to perform anywhere close to as well as someone using a good buid.

It’s not like you’ve wasted massive amounts of gold on useless gear. The greatsword has uses, and all you need to pick up is a couple swords and a focus and retrait. You’re just refusing to use an effective build, which is your personal choice of course, but don’t get mad at people if they kick you from a party for being useless.

I’m feeling perfectly useful so far at least =p
Geez, stop being so condescending 0o

Pyroatheist.9031:

Well, to be blunt, you’re wrong. A damage skill once every 4.8 seconds, requiring traiting 20 into domination (which is a poor choice) is not even remotely close to an autoattack. It simply doesn’t add up.

Again, it will work. It’ll just be bad. If you’re ok with being the weak link in every party, then go for it.

Man, you’re being depressing, no offense.
After spending(read: wasting) over 100 g on different sets of armors/weapons and rerolls I just decided I was okay with my prior build just as well(just needed a little more toughness). Just won’t be joining those elitist zerg teams. Maybe it was a mentality thing after all.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vgAQJARGIJMfo3oUg9sTShqTd5D4G-zABBZmFRjt4qIas6aYKXER1iCIiA-e

Here’s how it looks like at the moment.
Kinda tough choice between 25 dom or 15 Chaos, I’ll see if I need either more as I go on.
Not sure if I really need the crit damage but likely I’ll just alternate between Berserker and Knight sets.
Would welcome tips for equipment/sigil/rune setup and that’ll be it for me

Pyroatheist.9031:

Paul Kay.4891:

Pyroatheist.9031:

The reason you don’t use greatsword for single target is because it’s not particularly good at close range, but it’s a good multi-target weapon for trash clearing.

Staff is different. The phantasm on the staff is actually great. Given proper conditions, it’ll absolutely dwarf every other phantasm in terms of dps output. Unfortunately, this comes at the cost of reducing your autoattack damage to something verging on literally 0. The staff autoattack is worthless for power damage. Due to this, even the fantastic staff phantasm almost never can make up for the loss of autoattack damage.

Conditions are abysmal in PvE on any class, and they’re even worse on mesmer due to the particularities of what conditions we can apply, and how we do it.

When push comes to shove, mainhand sword is your only truly viable option. While I wouldn’t instantly kick a mesmer using conditions or camping a staff/gs set, I would make a mental note that the dungeon is now a 4-man group, and the mesmer would be the first person kicked if the going got tough.

Allow me to repeat myself here – Spatial Surge is hardly used in GS-mode, it’s just a potential 3 stack bleed.

That’s the point. It’s a bad autoattack at close range. 3 stack bleed means nothing. You can cycle through the rest of the attacks and clear trash effectively, but if you’re on a boss fight, it now means that half of your weaponset is not very effective, since you can go 2-3-4 in about 2 seconds, and then you’re sitting around looking foolish for the next 8.

I technically consider 2 as an autottack, given you can reduce its cd to 4.8 so the gap is not as large as you think, imo.

Pyroatheist.9031:

The reason you don’t use greatsword for single target is because it’s not particularly good at close range, but it’s a good multi-target weapon for trash clearing.

Staff is different. The phantasm on the staff is actually great. Given proper conditions, it’ll absolutely dwarf every other phantasm in terms of dps output. Unfortunately, this comes at the cost of reducing your autoattack damage to something verging on literally 0. The staff autoattack is worthless for power damage. Due to this, even the fantastic staff phantasm almost never can make up for the loss of autoattack damage.

Conditions are abysmal in PvE on any class, and they’re even worse on mesmer due to the particularities of what conditions we can apply, and how we do it.

When push comes to shove, mainhand sword is your only truly viable option. While I wouldn’t instantly kick a mesmer using conditions or camping a staff/gs set, I would make a mental note that the dungeon is now a 4-man group, and the mesmer would be the first person kicked if the going got tough.

Allow me to repeat myself here – Spatial Surge is hardly used in GS-mode, it’s just a potential 3 stack bleed.

Well it appears I have to resign from using Greatsword(because of counterproductive 1 and 5) and Staff(because of 2 and insufficient illusion-making power) in dungeons.
That’s… saddening :/
Might go Scepter+X and Scepter+X/Staff, but supposedly condition damage is bad in PvE. I’m interested to hear more about this.

I don’t really like main-hand sword, all else goes really :s.

Carighan.6758:

I can’t speak for Pyro, but in Dungeons GS+Staff is terrible. Ofc, you will get away with it in pugs (even without being the one causing the issues) because they tend to try stand at range, exactly where you’ll be with the GS.
Any somewhat more serious dungeon party will stack at 500-600 range or in melee, where the Greatsword deals less damage than even the Scepter, and the Staff is no good damage weapon in PvE as it is due to it’s condition-reliance. The phantasm is awesome, however.

However as I said, you will be plenty fine outside of dungeons, and for open world, LS content and WvW, I’d say GS+Staff is one of the better setups around. Plus less weapons to craft, which is really helpful as a newcomer.

The rune-part: There are runes giving +boonduration as the 2/6 bonus. You can take 2 of 3 different types and stack up the duration, because between Bountiful Interrupt in Chaos, Staff in general and Signet of Inspiration you end up throwing a good amount of boons around. Helpful if they last longer.

I’m not sure what’s the problem people see with Spatial Surge. I mean you can just not use it and resort to Bouncy Winds of Chaos. 234 and an optional 5 from GS takes enough time between swaps that you don’t even need to use Spatial Surge. Mirror Blade’s up each 4.75 sec with both CD reductions, that’s my “alternate” autoattack to be honest lol.

I’d welcome help to adapt GS+Staff for Dungeons.
I was thinking Interrupt-heavy build could work but It seems rather hard to pull off in a dungeon, no?

Pyroatheist.9031:

Honestly it looks pretty terrible.

Spawn illusions at a fast rate? You don’t have deceptive evasion, so the only illusion spawning you’ll be doing is from mirror blade and phase retreat, which won’t be a ‘fast rate’ by any definition.

You don’t have any damage in this build, crit or condition. You said that condition damage makes up for a lack of crit damage. What condition damage? The only condition you can reliably apply is confusion, and confusion blows chunks in PvE. As for power-based damage, you have no phantasm damage boosts and you don’t even have illusionary persona, so your shatter damage will be very low as well.

So to round it up. That build has no potential to do any damage of any form. It doesn’t apply boons effectively since all your boons are quite low base duration. It has no access to reflects, nor any damage modifiers to make those reflects do damage. Honestly, I’d kick your build from a party, because it would be utterly useless.

Fair enough – I’d like to know then – how would you go around making a Power+condition damage, GS+Staff build that works for Dungeons? Or are you completely against it?

Pwent.2639:

2/2/2 boon duration runes and take boon share signet and battle sigils and use the 5 points for chaotic transferal somewhere else.

Could you say that again, but in a way a newbie would understand? :P

After poking around the skill tree for a couple hours, I came up more or less with something like this:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vgAQJARGGJMzo3IHNjrndSKadqB-zABBZmFRjt4qIas6aYKXER1iCIiA-e
Basically spawn illusions at a fast rate and alternate between F1 and F2 shatters and while you are not shattering, stack yourself and your allies on boons and enemies on debuffs(Winds of Chaos+ Mirrorblade+Chaos Storm). Instead of relying on crit, condition damage makes up for it.

Thoughts? Critique? Optimization? Thanks!

Pyroatheist.9031:

This sorta depends on how you define viable. Will you be able to kill things and complete content? Yes. Will you be mostly a dead weight on your team? Also yes.

By viable I mean run ascended and dungeon content well and not be dead weight on the team.

I welcome build ideas. I really don’t want to run Sword and Scepter’s confusion isn’t that good for PvE.
I appreciate tips and brainstorms.