Showing Posts For PolishTank.3156:
Now if the camps would get upgraded like you suggest, what to do when the entire map has just 1-2 players on your side? Not everybody plays all the time on the busy hours and I can imagine this is a very common problem on the lowest tiers. Just ask those people who play on Blacktide.
If the NPCs are greatly strengthened (and NOT scaled to the amount of enemies) the coverage problems are becoming even worse. The server with the best coverage will simply flip all the maps and then when the other server players wake up, they have an almost impossible uphill battle.
And trust me, I have spent tons of gold and time to upgrade camps and other objectives and seen it lost fast to just 3 enemy roamers. Still I am strongly against your idea.
Your telling me there are some servers where sometimes there are only 1 or 2 players per side on the map at once? My god Arena Net merge some servers for crying out loud. That’s ridiculous.
OP not to be rude, but you’ve only been playing for about a month judging by your post history. So probably spent even less time in WvW.
If after 2 years you want to fight more NPC’s than players I’d be very surprised. Indeed I’d be surprised if you were still playing WvW if you mainly fought NPC’s.
For sure I’m not the most experienced here; however I played mainly WvW when GW2 first came out and just came back a month ago. I’m somewhat disappointed that the constant quick hit objective taking is still so prevalent a couple years later, so I decided to post my opinion on it.
Disruption is fine however for one guy to fly around someone’s Borderlands and run back and forth taking multiple supply camps at only a couple minutes needed rate for each is a bit too easy. 2-4 people to take a supply camp I think is better balanced.
No. It is not. One single player keeping me busy, would prevent me from constantly killing dollies and taking camps. He doesn’t need to even defeat me, just slow me down (and I am far from invincible^^). Adding more PvE is really the wrong direction for WvW. Majority of WvW players want less PvE and more PvP in WvW.
The current state of WvW, supposed it is an fairly even matchup, requires players to take care of roamers: Find the infiltrator and send them where they belong: back to spawn. And not: “Bah, don’t worry, camps can defend themselves. All stack on tag and AA away.”
But that’s the thing I believe that toughening up some objectives will create more PvP. I feel that Roamers and Zergs spend the majority of time chasing and countering each others’ take overs more than fighting each other. Giving Keeps and Towers a bit more auto defenses of some nature I think will counteract this.
Incorrect. One of a roamers jobs is to target individual players running back to the zerg/group. As well as to catch scouts who are sieging a tower and running supply and kill them.
You are also incorrect in claiming there are so few players who scout keeps. On my server we generally always have 2 scouts in garri, one in each of the northern towers, and at leasy one in bay and hills if we have them. We have a large pool of willing parties who rotate in and out. That is just the home BL. We will have 4 to 5 on keeps in each of the other BLs and 4 to 5 on EB. generally we have no less then 20 in WvW as a whole at any given time.
Whether or not you have a couple scouts at a Keep, a group of ten will take that keep in 5-10 minutes. After that group moves on, you will counter and get it back 5-10 minutes later. Because lack of defenders. Make it take just a little more effort. Have some cool group activities to upgrade. Have some cool small group/roam activities against supply camps to stall those upgrades. Bottom line is the Keeps should require a bit more effort and organization to take.
Actually for me WvW is exactly that. Often I run around the map preventing objectives from upgrading by killing dollies and taking camps and ambushing dolly escorts. I like to split up with some other guys, so we work together in a way of soloing in our areas and teaming up, when needed. It more often than not requires me to 1vX and to fight players in their camp. Sometimes I win, sometimes not, but this is the path I chose and the play style I enjoy very much. Especially the cat and mouse play, when I lie in waiting around a supply camp and several opponents waiting in the camp, trying to save dollies as I attack them, when they move out. It often results in 5+ players gathering in camp before they push out to get me (and often they don’t, so the play starts anew^^).
Disruption is fine however for one guy to fly around someone’s Borderlands and run back and forth taking multiple supply camps at only a couple minutes needed rate for each is a bit too easy. 2-4 people to take a supply camp I think is better balanced.
EoTM is in the crappy state it’s in BECAUSE of all this PvE/NPC stuff that is in it.
If anything they are inconsequential. Besides something for players to steamroll I’m not following how they ruin EoTM.
Then stop worrying about PPT and go find a fight.
If you want to take things with 15 people, then go take hills, bay, garry, or one of the other keeps.
By the way, it is not disagreeing when you state something never happens, when there are miles of videos on youtube proving you wrong. That is making a provably false statement, not disagreeing.
When roaming what you attack is mostly devoid of players unless there are other players in the vicinity by coincidence. Counter attacks are obviously organized quickly, but there are very little players that dedicate their time waiting at a Tower or Keep for an attack. Just because there are YouTube videos with a bunch of exceptions doesn’t change the typical way WvW plays out.
Understand that what players on a given WvWvW map can be looking for different things out of their time there. What you’re asking for – more NPCs, more cannons etc – would turn off players like me who have little interest in siege warefare. Personally I think the accessability of these weapons and the maps sizes make sharing these spaces with the command and conquer types hard enough already.
Do you know why a Thief can solo a keep? Hiding and having lots of time because there are zero defenders. The problem with defending isn’t that the NPCs are weak and stupid, they are supplementary and not meant to thwart attacks, that’s a job for players. The problem is that of participation and GW2 favoring offense in pretty much all aspects of the game.
I understand your concern but I didn’t quite say “siege warfare.” I said 15 players to take a Keep, which is just about a typical Roaming size anyway. Whatever the best balance is a Keep needs to be able to hold off 5 players for more than 5 minutes.
Like I said before to expect people to stand around “defending” is never going to happen. Its not realistic to expect players to stand around doing nothing waiting for an attack. NPCs should have more capability to at least hold Keeps for a little while and give players a chance to reinforce.
15 a typical roaming group size???? That’s a typical guild raid size on many servers
I always thought 10-15 was Roam and 20+ was Zerg. And I’m only really talking about Keeps. Small parties for Watch towers/supply camps. Scouts for caravans.
I understand your concern
Apparently not. Because you continue to blatantly ignore them, is order to demand your personal desires to be filled.
Scouting is a role. Solo roaming is a role. Players enjoy both of them. Your idea destroys both of them.
I said 15 players to take a Keep, which is just about a typical Roaming size anyway.
For some servers, that is the entire map after 11PM.
Whatever the best balance is a Keep needs to be able to hold off 5 players for more than 5 minutes.
That balance is a scout, sieging the keep. Using siege after he calls out to the commander that the keeps is under siege. Use the door treb, arrow cart, siege disablers, until reinforcements arrive.
I can train a monkey to hold off 10 while solo with nothing but a few siege disablers and some supply in the keep.
I’m not ignoring anything. I’m disagreeing.
I look at a “solo scout” to be a scout. A “solo roamer” should able to take out caravans, but that’s just about it. Needing a small group to take a camps is not that hard, and there is a PvE section to the game if you don’t want to group up. Its WvW, not Super Hero vs World. That’s great you can train a monkey with siege disablers. Unfortunately you can’t train them to sit on their thumbs waiting for the attack.
I know there’s scouting, and if you and your mates are that organized good for you. However, watchtowers/Keeps in practice are mostly empty as players are out attacking.
(edited by PolishTank.3156)
Understand that what players on a given WvWvW map can be looking for different things out of their time there. What you’re asking for – more NPCs, more cannons etc – would turn off players like me who have little interest in siege warefare. Personally I think the accessability of these weapons and the maps sizes make sharing these spaces with the command and conquer types hard enough already.
Do you know why a Thief can solo a keep? Hiding and having lots of time because there are zero defenders. The problem with defending isn’t that the NPCs are weak and stupid, they are supplementary and not meant to thwart attacks, that’s a job for players. The problem is that of participation and GW2 favoring offense in pretty much all aspects of the game.
I understand your concern but I didn’t quite say “siege warfare.” I said 15 players to take a Keep, which is just about a typical Roaming size anyway. Whatever the best balance is a Keep needs to be able to hold off 5 players for more than 5 minutes.
Like I said before to expect people to stand around “defending” is never going to happen. Its not realistic to expect players to stand around doing nothing waiting for an attack. NPCs should have more capability to at least hold Keeps for a little while and give players a chance to reinforce.
Maybe the people you run with do that but the people I run with could care less about capping empty structures for WvWvW’s crappy bags. We look for players to fight which may result in a few camps and a rare paper tower flipping but in the end we want to use our weapon skills against people using theirs. And I know a few groups that do the same.
Ok fine so what’s the problem with my original suggestion? Why not encourage players to do more of what you do? I mean Tspatula just said you can solo StoneMist with a thief. Bristingr said he took it with 7 people. Am I the only person who sees something wrong with this?
If there are “fortification” events after a Keep/Supply camp take; that leaves a better shot that players will be around the Keep for the eventual counter attack. What I’m suggesting encourages more PVP.
Solo players and small groups defend supply camps all the time. WvW is supposed to be a PvP environment: the NPCs are there to be an objective and a tool to use, not dungeon bosses. Of course I can take a keep solo with an alpha golem and a lot of time, but the objective is for you to try and stop me. Nobody likes fighting AI in WvW. We like fighting other players.
That’s just not true. Every roaming group I’ve ever joined specifically goes after undefended camps/Keeps all the time for the rewards. The design is setup to reward this play so that’s what everyone does. Nobody actually seeks out PvP. Why would you when you can just take a keep with a few people and get a ton of stuff. Roamers flat out just fight AI 95% of the time.
A. No need to make solo roaming less viable.
B. No need for more PvE in WvW.
In my opinion, if you want a location held, guard it yourself. It is a realistic expectation. If you ask me, if your not willing to put in the effort to defend it, you do not have a right to complain if you lose it.
Its absolutely not a realistic expectation. If it was a realistic expectation, people would already be doing it. However as you know, nobody does. Which creates the disorganized “ebb and flow” issue that needs to be addressed.
I’m not saying that there should be no activities for a loaner or small group in WvW. Heck they could do the “fortifying” events that I mentioned, hit supply caravans, and so on. Remember I said to make them high rewards based so they’re not left out. What I’m saying is that five players definitely should not be able to take keeps.
WvW is fantastic from a high level design standpoint suffering from a major flaw. The WvW NPCs are terrible. They are so terrible, that 1 player can take over a supply camp, and 5 can easily take a Keep.
This is a major play problem for many reasons, but the main being that their is just way too much ebb and flow to the point that it never feels like your accomplishing anything. There are too many roaming parties that avoid PvP to hit the NPC only defended Keep for the rewards only for it to be lost 5 minutes later, rinse and repeat.
The challenge is that to expect players to stand around waiting to defend against an attacking enemy is not a realistic expectation. When people spend time to game, they want to do something fun, which encompasses fighting, which means you need to go search for the fight (attack). Therefore I’m really hoping that ANet implements a new system for the xpack; a WvW fortify/expand goal for the players. Have high reward based area events setup with the goal of fortifying Keeps with more NPCs, cannons, champions, and so forth. Make it so that it takes at least 15 players to take a Keep, and 5 to take a supply camp. Having a bit more “stability” on the front lines and requiring a bit more organization to advance I think will go a long way to making WvW a more fun, satisfying experience.
Sorry to bump but I’m having a hard time finding a guild that does activities after 9pm EST. If any other info is needed let me know.
Hi,
I’m a very casual, new player that is still looking to get the whole dungeon, PVP, WvW experience as much as possible. I’m looking for a large Darkhaven guild that has regular group activities after 9pm EST. Do to RL issues I can’t offer any commitments, but can donate 400 influence as a thank you.