Guild Wars 2

…And then there were the players who simply thought that climbing up the ladder was a fun experience regardless of whether it was brought about by “bandwagon” guilds? Dividing everyone into “Pro – WM elitist”, “Anti – WM true Kaineng”, and “Clueless about server” is simple – minded in the extreme.

If you were around for some of our matchups back then you’ll have noticed that WM along with other transfer guilds – and the entire server along with them by default – were deluged with accusations of cheating via botting, “because no real group of people could be that coordinated”. Not to mention all the mud – flinging about mindless zerging, PvDooring, etc, etc. Case in point in this very thread “Single – minded overpowering zerg tactics”. Most of the diatribe boiled down to juvenile “You may have won, but you guys are still losers” – type taunts, combined with a hint of racism directed at Asian primetime guilds.

Some people liked it, some didn’t. But you don’t have to be a fanboy or self proclaimed elitist to defend guilds on your own server when someone else decides to play chimp and throw poo around. Bandwagon or not – I was one of those that enjoyed the ride up, and will continue to enjoy WvW at our current rank.

phaneo.4597:

azizul.8469:

there was a kind of funny talk, let us Kaineng lose for a week….. see how it goes.. not sure if it was taken seriously though…. lol

Call it pride or self-respect or whatever; but I’d rather win a week because we fought for it and won, rather than the enemy deciding to try something new and lose purposefully. It wouldn’t be a victory for us, it’d be a big slap in our face in fact, and yeah all those “riding/sucking your whatever whatever” accusations from the 3rd server. And given the fact that it won’t change anything for the next week due to 13 rating gap between TC & KN at the moment, it won’t make sense. I’m sure most of TC can agree with me. I’d rather have us give our best against the toughest odds, and lose than have victory handed to us on a platter. Atleast we could smile that we did our best, than grab a easy-mode victory.

To whoever is planning to do anything similar to this (if there’s anything like this in plans)- please don’t embarass us as your opponents. Let’s not defeat the purpose of WvW.

While I can certainly empathize with your point of view, the fact is that shaking things up a little / taking it easy occasionally offers too many benefits to – not – do it regularly. Especially, as you said, where it doesn’t make much of a difference for the final outcome. Some of our more experienced commanders are turning off tags to allow newly – minted commanders to step up to the plate. I see WvW – regular guilds trying out the Super Adventure Box. As someone mentioned earlier, some of our guilds had some fun with GvG yesterday, etc.

So, really, I wouldn’t say that as a server we’re trying to lose purposefully, more that constant, serious WvW with no rest and no time to take it easy ends up being detrimental to a server’s long term player retention/development. It’s the equivalent of a real – world furlough, more for our own sake than for someone else’s benefit, really.

And observed his reaction to you breaking all his stuff, this might be an interesting watch:

So much “I’m a serious gamer” narrow – minded elitism.

I play EVE Online. Super “serious business” game, and I enjoy the theme of dark, dystopian universe where you can lose your entire wealth overnight with one stupid decision. If you’re so convinced you’re – hardcore – and above us “simpletons” that like the SAB, try it. You’ll see just where you stand in the realm of serious gaming soon enough.

I also play Guild Wars 2, and I enjoy the oftentimes whimsical “science fantasy” (Thanks, earlier forum poster!) theme. Being able to play casually makes for a nice, relaxing change of pace when I feel like it.

It doesn’t have to be all one or the other. Learn to enjoy different aspects of a game/different types of games, and your gaming experience will be all the richer for it. Even if you really can’t bring yourself to like a particular game/event/The Super Adventure Box, just move on. Nowhere was it stated that the developers were going to turn GW2 into an exclusively serious business fantasy title. You have your story, your lore, your quests, and you also get sillies like this from time to time to lighten the mood. You get so much different content to enjoy, if you don’t like one aspect just go enjoy something else. If you really can’t bring yourself to enjoy the overall game or the direction it’s headed, find something else.

It’s already a basic disconnect if you don’t like the casual, less – serious foundation of the game, and especially since many of the detractors seem already aware of it, and appear to have been for some time hanging around to consistently wallow in negativity is no longer “rational criticism” but obnoxious moaning.

Have to add in another note of thanks here to Anet in general for this update, and the devs that worked on it in particular. I was grinning like an idiot while trying out the box, and hope to get my guildies on later this week to run through the Super Awesome Adventure together.

The satirical commercial was a touch of genius, as well. Laughed so hard. Just goes to show that good doesn’t always have to be new and flashy. Thanks!

Expunge.4926:

and to be fair there are definitely some guilds that are on losing servers, but still earn lots of lootbags from Kaineng zergs.. just click a few of the PINK or BT videos to observe.

endless bragging might not be necessary, but i’m also not sure it’s happening either

It says a lot about your impartiality that earning lots of lootbags from Kaineng zergs is something definite, but the accompanying boasting seen every matchup thread we’ve had is somehow an unknown quantity. Perhaps not regarding the loot itself all the time, but quite typically in the form of “My zerg/guild/server is better than your zerg/guild/server” sentiments. See the nonsensical “You guys need to 2v1 us because we’re such a threat” playing on loop for the first couple of pages.

Regardless:

nibbles.2408:

Also, our SEA coverage consists of mostly militia and a few commanders, so organized groups like WM, Meow, RISE, etc., can largely sweep the map with their coordination over our own forces. Just a little perspective for you.

^Is the answer to “We farmed lots and lots of lootbags from X server’s zerg”. That same perspective goes both ways. Every server is going to have a time where their much more organized guilds rolls over another’s smaller zerg/militia. Every server has had a point or the other where their people filled their bags with lootbags, more so with the relatively recent increase in loot for WvW. I’ve been in a losing retreat before and still filled my inventory with loot, as I’m sure many others have experienced.

Don’t boast about something so insignificant and amorphous as the outcome of individual battles, or better yet, don’t boast at all and let the thread be one about the good fights everyone’s had. But if you’re going to go ahead and stroke yourself in public anyway, expect equally public mocking.

oxide.8324:

Ok, maybe closer to 3 to 1. My point still stands.

It did start out with those odds when we broke through the south gate, but then we were pretty much stalemated until we got more people on. At the end when we managed to get into lords room I’d say the numbers were about even.

Credit where credit is due, don’t emulate the servers/guilds who loudly insist that they’re perpetually at a disadvantage to the skill-less zerging Kaineng when they’re losing, yet still somehow brag endlessly about lootbags.

As a SEA player from Kaineng myself, I am going to offer a SEA player’s point of view – It would be good, if you’re really looking for a permanent place to settle down, to read up on the former and current matchup threads of servers that you find yourself interested in joining. Every server will make some form of claim or the other to being “friendly”, “mature”, “having teamwork”, but it’s by watching how their people behave under pressure that you really get a clear picture of who they are.

The reason I say this is because during Kaineng’s rise through the ranks, we’ve constantly been bombarded with accusations of our guilds botting (due to some of our guilds’ rigid formations), PvDooring (Because any time not NA prime time is nightcapping and isn’t the “honourable” time to be playing). And the main reason all the nonsense is because we have several very strong SEA/Oceanic guilds that tend to have different doctrines with regards to teamplay, and just so happen to play during a time when most of the NA – heavy servers we have competed with have less people on.

The other side of it is, a lot of said servers actually do have a SEA/Oceanic presence, but because our presence during that timezone just happens to be much stronger, their SEA/Oceanic populations tend to be pushed back on the defensive, forced to fight against bad odds. Sometimes they even do a great job of it, but you’ll still see this on the forums from the rest of their non – SEA/Oceanic crew: “Lol Kaineng only wins by PvDooring, by capping undefended keeps, by playing during a time when we have no one defending”. Yes, despite their SEA/Oceanic crew valiantly defending against superior numbers you’ll still be “no one”. Irrelevant, apparently, because you still lost ground.

So – You’ll find many servers who make grand claims about how welcome you will be, but being an Asian player having been on the receiving end of much of this drivel, I would really suggest that you consider whether or not your server is one that truly considers a SEA/Oceanic crew – Opponents or allies alike – to be guilds worthy of respect and equal treatment. Not just treating you as another guild to plug their coverage hole – while dismissing your efforts when you lose, and being deregatory towards entire peoples playing during a different timezone when it becomes the convenient excuse to rationalize their losses.

Yes, I am aware that a dozen similar threads have been posted on the very same topic. This is not going to be constructive. I applaud those who are trying to help out by offering concrete suggestions. I may even join them if there’s any indication that their suggestions are actually being heard. This thread? Just ranting to get it off my chest, I apologize in advance.

So I took a break from WvW – Which has been taking all of my gaming time lately, and decided to immerse back into Tyria with some of my newer alts. Then I realized something – I don’t want to do any more of the personal stories beyond the racial arcs. I get bored just at the thought of it. I am getting bored at the very idea of what is supposed to be the backbone story of the game. I read of interesting / funny short conversations / random events, and I actually find that I’m motivated to go hang out in those areas. I find random snippets of conversation and short quests more fulfilling than what is supposed to be the overarching plot of the game. I actually went and google searched “Guild Wars 2 Personal Story Disappointment” to find a sort of twisted catharsis.

Issues with the personal story that have already been brought up multiple times – Which have already been sufficiently elaborated on, so I’ll try not to expound on each point with an essay:

1) Extremely minimal replayability. Past the racial stories, the different Orders and the Pact storyline only have variation in the sense of “Which one of these two missions do you want to do next, before you get back to the railroad plot:”?

2) Traeherne. See that other thread.

3) Rushed storyline. I feel like what was supposed to be a grinding war against endless hordes of the undead was over way too fast, with no thought given to making it feel epic, a “war”. Even the individual missions feel small and over too fast to be truly immersive. I find more epicness in the PvE chain mission from Fort Trinity to the Temple of Balthazar.

4) Your personality does nada except to get one or two cheesy, forgettable one – liners.

5) Earlier racial and order quests have exactly zilch impact on what happens later during the final railroad leading to Orr.

6) Underdeveloped, throwaway characters. What happened to my krewe? Why does it matter if I choose the untrustworthy necromancer or the aging thief for my warband if they’re just going to disappear after one or two quests together? I’m growing to like Tybalt, and sympathize with him being a pacifist born as a Charr – Oh wait, he’s already dead? Too bad, here’s your new pal Traeherne!

7) Playing second fiddler to the drama from Traeherne and Destiny’s Edge. What’s that about a personal story again? No, I don’t mind my character playing second in command, but have him accomplish something noteworthy in that role instead of just following your two pet Deus Ex Machinas while they play out their roles.

Yes, I am aware that there is a limit to how much divergence / player glorifying you can have in an MMO, it not being a single player RPG. But to promote your personal story so much and then deliver something of this quality? That’s not constraints, that’s being dishonest.

This blogpost describes it best:

http://halfblaked.blogspot.com/2013/03/how-legend-faltered-guild-wars-2-and.html

Conclusion? I feel cheated. Cheated by high promises of a personal story where your actions matter, where your character actually plays an important role (Everyone wants to be a hero) in deciding the fate of Tyria. Cheated by more promises of your character’s personality influencing your storyline. Cheated by giving me NPC teammates that I try to actually like and care for, but are gone like the wind after a few short, insignificant quests together.

I still find the game high quality in many other aspects, but in storytelling I’d rate the “personal” story in GW2 a straight D at best. This, for an MMO that sold its story, hard. And now, instead of doing something (Anything?) to fix/improve on the main storyline, we’re going to get some Living Story thingamajig, which at this point I have as much hope for being “Living” as the personal story is “Personal”.

/endrant

Darknicrofia.2604:

Teamkiller.4315:

Exploit into FA’s EB keep just now was pretty lame of you, Kaineng. Until now, I haven’t actually seen cheating even though I’ve heard multiple reports of it. Now I have.

lol wtf are u talking about, we built 8 catas outside your front door and speed rushed through that

Confirming that there were massed catas. Which incidentally also meant that the second door went down just as quickly to splash damage.

Maybe consider alternative explanations before accusing another server of cheating, then attempting to gloss over your own unsportsmanlike, I – heard – people – say – it – so – it – must -be – true behavior next time. Oh well!

Unfortunately.5940:

Sev.5769:

But…Last I heard FA was less about points and more about gudfites in WvW. Surely you won’t begrude our server for trying it out just once.

The 15-20 FA in KN BL capping keeps while no one’s home makes us sad pandas. What was the term you guys keep using for that again….PvDooring, was it?

Just once every day I guess
On a serious note, i can’t help but wonder if the considerable Kaineng SEA population doesn’t get seriously bored fighting servers with little or no SEA presence. I know I get bored in a hurry when all we do is flip objectives with little or no resistance (like in tier 3).

It’s roughly the middle of/ late SEA prime time at the moment, and you guys put up a hearty resistance with considerable numbers at your garrison. (Wait, did our zerg get pushed back? Pretty sure we got pushed back) Plus the aforementioned 15-20 players you apparently could spare for KN BL, and I’d say that you guys are giving too little credit to your Oceanic/SEA crew.

Also, we just lost FA Bay. Nooo.

IRSyKo.5843:

Magiofdeath.2745:

WIGZ.8245:

SEA time is just so easy. PvDoor time is super fun time.

I forget, what is TC’s and Kain’s strongest timezone?

This isn’t TC’s timezone.

It’s just that WM and Meow is content with sitting in FA BL for the last hour and a half and not attacking anything else.

But…Last I heard FA was less about points and more about gudfites in WvW. Surely you won’t begrude our server for trying it out just once.

The 15-20 FA in KN BL capping keeps while no one’s home makes us sad pandas. What was the term you guys keep using for that again….PvDooring, was it?

Yes, of course. Let’s see them “Hardcore killers” play the WvW game for 5 years in a row. No breaks, no holidays, no going out into Tyria.

I’m glad that we have competent leaders who are actually aware of the danger of player burnout, and are planning for player/guild retention and development over the long haul. By taking regular breaks, injecting some variety, taking some time to goof around, allowing new commanders to try their hands at the helm, etc.

Trikki.5803:

I think if you’re going to post a recruitment topic you should at least be truthful and/or accurate.

Kaineng’s Oceanic crew isn’t nearly as good as you say, we smashed them every night against much larger numbers. You’re talking about KN owning the PvDoor gap between NA/Oceanic and Oceanic/SEA and SEA/EU, not the Oceanic timezone itself.

Our timezone is about 4-5 hours (7pm-11pm/midnight our time) and our PPT was always higher than Kaineng during that period unless we took the night off.

Don’t get me wrong, Kaineng is a great community and we had some good fights but you need to get your facts straight.

Do correct me if i’m wrong, but as I recall:

1) We held the points lead over the weekend, the last week that Blackgate was in T2.
2) Oceanic timezone is GMT +11
3) Most of the Southeast Asian timezone is GMT +8
4) Korean timezone is GMT +9

Now, you are claiming that your oceanic crew/guild dominates a time period of 4-5 hours, Oceanic time. That time period spills over into SEA/Korean prime time as well, where you’re getting the likes of WM, RISE, KOR, and a few other smaller SEA/Korean guilds that make the bulk of Kaineng’s heavy hitters. For all I know you could have “smashed” these guilds of ours as well – but consider that:

1) We acknowledge, and I believe most of our opponents thus far also know that we lack EU and NA coverage as compared to several other top – tier servers. That’s a large spread across two major timezones that we are already losing in PPTs.
2) You are further claiming that we also lose out during a 4-5 hour oceanic prime time period. That’s another major timezone that we should also be losing in PPTs.
3) You are further claiming that we only have a PPT lead during “gaps” between NA/Oceanic and Oceanic/SEA and SEA/EU

Since we are apparently hemorrhaging PPTs across 3 major timezones and only manage to win by “PvDooring” (Hey, if someone’s active during a timezone i’m not, he must have been PvDooring!) during gaps in between, it should be virtually impossible for us to be holding the lead for total points at any point in time, yet:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/2013-BG-Kain-TC/page/32
https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/48987/gw125.jpg

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/2013-BG-Kain-TC/page/34
https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/49166/gw178.jpg

Between 10-11 days ago, which roughly translates into the Monday after the weekend tussle, we were clearly holding the lead in total points for some time.

So yes, some claims sound fishy here, but they’re not ours.

Pinko.2076:

I trust Kaineng to know what they’re doing more than non-kaineng.

Ah, thank you so much! You have no idea how most of us live in such terrible, constant fear. Fear that we would, at any time, be duly informed of the dreadful truth about ourselves by other servers – that our zerg just mindlessly follow our commander, that our people are obsessed with winning WvW, that we were bad for getting wiped because we couldn’t possibly be taking the opportunity to level alts, that our main guilds are bad because they were obviously lying about not being able to get their full force in upon reset.

I, too, yearn for the day when we may be truly worthy of knowing ourselves better than our opponents do us.

Altie.4571:

Mayoken.9851:

Yes, we don’t care about Tier 1. We do care about solidifying our WvW coverage all around the clock. Right now WvW is frusterating for the NA guilds b/c when we get online all the keeps in all the borderlands are upgraded against us b/c we have no organized WvW guilds in the EU Time frame. The NA guilds have been playing earlier and staying up later for about 4 weeks now and it’s starting to strain us. Thought we would reach out to the Guild Wars 2 community and see the response we would get.

This is simply not true.

I don’t really care about the thread but when I go in to read something I do like to call out false statements. During server transfers craze and Kain’s move up the ladder most of your posters were talking about “our trip to Tier1” “join us as we take Tier 1 by the storm” (paraphrasing), etc.

Anyways, good luck in your recruiting, but please don’t mislead people.

Alright, since you’re saying outright that a majority of our posters were obsessed with T1, perhaps you’d like to back it up with something solid? Since you’re such a paragon of truthfulness, surely you have sufficient examples of this suggested vocal majority to justify your statement.

At the end of it you’re playing a game because you find it fun, and a large part of that fun I would say is having a variety of different experiences in the game. That’s why we get such a wide array of activities to play with.

Viewed from that perspective – Playing as the underdog is just one of the many experiences you can obtain from WvWvW. Fighting your way up the ladder with mega guilds and alliances is yet another experience to be cherished. You might not consider it to be your most favorite thing to do, but do consider it a trip worth taking if it takes you places you have not had the opportunity to be in before. You can always switch to a lower pop server at any time, after all. Try to experience the ride, and then decide if it’s not your cup of tea.

In response to the constant allegations of botting and the supposed “evidence” presented- I’m pretty much always on the borderlands, and I’ve had the pleasure of following some of the WM commanders when they drop by BL after securing EB. This here’s just my own experience with them

This one time I was tailing Jang Gun with a zerg comprised mainly of our BL guilds, fighting DBs near Sunnyhill I believe. For a moment both sides seemed stuck in your typical long – range engagement stalemate, then Jang turned and ran off back where we came. Most of us followed suit and ran off with him in what seemed like a poorly executed retreat/random running all over the place. Some of us who didn’t react fast enough were left to die, but the DB zerg was encouraged and charged forward, while our maneuvering had put us in the perfect position for a flank. Yeah, we lost maybe 5 but wiped out around 20 of the opposing force in return, and our fallen got their rez after we regained control of the field.

Another time after attacking a heavily defended keep for the longest time and finally managing to get the walls down Jang Gun again turned tail and ran off in a completely different direction, with most of us following him. I’m pretty sure I wasn’t the only one questioning why were we abandoning our hard won victory, but nonetheless almost all of us followed. Turned out he was using the hubbub caused by our attack on one end of the map to pull the defenders there, and rushed our zerg to the other end to cap another undefended keep virtually unopposed.

….Point being, I’ve run with such zergs before, and some of us not even in WM follow such commanders with so – called “botlike” precision for the simple reason that they’re amazingly proficient at what they do – We trust them to make the right tactical decisions, even if they do seem random at the time.