Showing Posts For Shaddy.6931:
Every post in here has been pretty spot on. However when a class is unforgiving, that is usually associated with it being a hard class. So I’d have to say that ele and thief are the hardest classes to play with their own reasons. They also have very high skill ceilings, and usually people who play thief have been playing it for a long time and they are good. This is often misinterpreted as thief being OP because the user simply knows their class mechanics.
Why thief is hard:
- Lack of good condition removal. Yes we have various ways to remove conditions, however things like stealthing to remove conditions takes us away from the fight for a brief moment to survive. We have shadow step as well, however I hate burning it just to remove conditions because it’s much more useful when I get rooted/stunned etc. PS I don’t use Lyssa either, prefer other runes.
- Low HP. It’s been said many times, but thief has a low HP pool. This works against us because the meta is condition heavy.
- Learning curve is quick. You may do well against bad players, but when you approach higher ranks knowing your class and the enemies class is important. There are small windows of opportunity you have to burst with all you’ve got and you have to be able to spot them quickly.
- Assuming we’re talking about s/tPvp it’s difficult to hold points (which you shouldn’t be doing anyways most of the time) if you’re a stealth build.
- Any type of CC works heavily against you. Usually if a good team CC’s you and you don’t have shadow step up you’re doing to die. You get better with this in time but it is difficult at first.
I’d also like to note some things. Having a lot of stealth does not make you very useful to the team. You may be able to survive but surviving =/= helping the team. You have to take advantage of the enemies’ mistakes and be mobile. I am often roaming between points to help my allies. I honestly don’t like to 1v1 in s/tPvP very often. I feel much more useful in group fights where I can take the focus off myself with stealth and come in with very high burst to finish enemies off quickly. Sometimes 1v1’s can drag on and be useless towards your team. I hate people that just go 1v1 and say they were “contesting”. It’s a waste of time and waste of a team member.
You got to have it before any of the pvpers and you paid a royalty for that. Stop complaining.
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This is all the fun in playing thief and adds strategy to the down state. I love downing people in stealth, I can only imagine the shock their team mates feel when trying to res. Brings me joy.
I for one don’t even use this rune set, but I feel for thieves that need it such as S/D will suffer. I’m not sure why they’re nerfing this rune set and crit damage at the same time while conditions remain the most OP thing in PvP ever before seen. Seriously anytime there is a fight with 2+ condition spec classes it is kitten near impossible to get near them. The other day I melted from full HP to double down in less than a couple seconds. Granted I rushed into the fight but regardless that is just insane.
Hopefully something is done with the amount of conditions in PvP or else builds are just being swayed towards condition damage. From what I’ve heard GW1 was all about condition type damage, but I really like the diversity GW2 has somewhat preserved between raw damage and DOT. But this is cutting the diversity down quite a bit. I guess we’ll just see when the feature patch hits though.
this part made me laugh^^….it SHOULD be like this, it is like this for almost every other offensive proffesion….but not for thief….
porting in, doing their dmgpaired with their evades, and porting out to not take the risk to take any damage. thats all thief does. and thats what makes this class (at least S/P) way superior compared to other glass specs
The time it takes to melt a thief in comparison to any other zerker spec class is much shorter. However it is made up by our mobility. Everybody seems to have a sour taste of some sort of “infinite mobility” that thieves have. Of course we have good mobility and damage we take that away from our squishiness And S/P lol.. most of your damage is coming from auto attack on S/P and pistol whip is getting nerfed anyways to be non-spammable.
Porting in and out of fights is very situational. So you go in and backstab somebody once and run away to take no damage. Did you help your team members? If it was a 2v3 before you got there you NEED to stay and help there is no hit and run. You can’t run very far so you’re inevitably going to take damage.
Thief is the hit and run class. Quick bursts, finish low hp, help to end fights quickly, and decap. However we can’t hold points (can’t hold/contest in stealth), hard to fight 1vX, low hp etc. Other offensive built classes can do all of those. You lose some you gain some… every class has a different role. If all that makes thief “superior”, then sure you have your opinion. Maybe you should roll thief then since you like all those type of game play strategies.
Risk and reward on thief:
The main problem I want to point out is attacking when in stealth
If the thief uses his shortbow autoattack in stealth it will immobilise the target But since you can clearly see the shot coming you will try to evade it.
Evasive Shot Shortbow #3
spammable evade on weaponset -> not sure if I have to explain why this is a badShortbow autoattack:
Pretty much THE counter on this weaponset vs mesmer
Just wanted to point out some things that you stated.
1. The risk and reward on thief is already VERY high. You either kill or be killed(or run) in a short amount of time in most cases. If it’s an outnumbered fight in PvP a thief will most likely have a bad time.
2. Attacking out of stealth – I hear this all the time. But I mean really, a lot is depending on this. Hitting a backstab (on their back) is where most of the damage from thief comes from. Stealth isn’t that long mid fight, all it takes is one successful evade to throw off the backstab. As a thief, dodging other thieves’ backstabs is not very hard. Just one evade and they usually end up hitting me in front or their stealth wears off.
3. Spamming Evasive Shot – Alright I’m going to admit this is pretty dumb. I don’t do this, but sometimes I run into thieves that do. But I haven’t ran into anybody that makes it game breaking. It is pretty annoying, but nothing unbeatable. I would not mind a change to this as it doesn’t affect me and spamming this really takes the thief gameplay to somewhere it shouldn’t be.
4. Short bow auto – Mesmers have just as much deception as thieves IMO. Bouncing auto off of clones is a waste of time in my experience because I’m usually melting from the amount of conditions. I have a very aggressive playstyle, which may be also why I don’t pull out shortbow often. But I do not seeing short bow auto being changed at all. Shortbow is hardly used and is weak in most cases unless you’re supporting which is still a waste.
I think in a 1v1 Mesmer vs Thief is pretty balanced. I’ve won some and lost some. I’m by no means a pro thief, but I think we both hold counters to each other. Saying thief needs a drastic change is a little over kill IMO. Changing evasive shot to not be spammable is something I wouldn’t mind, but it wouldn’t change much. I’m not a fan of thieves spamming one skill. However it shouldn’t be a problem for anybody. Thieves that do this are usually really terrible and easy to down. The stealth is already 4 second reveal time in comparison to everywhere else in PvP, 4 seconds of a PU mesmer unleashing is already too much. The amount of condition damage from PvP lately is unbelievable. For me, that’s my biggest counter. Sometimes I die in seconds from the amount of condition damage some people put out. That’s with condition removal in stealth as well. So to say thieves don’t have high risks is wrong with our low health pool.
Yeah basically what splatter said. Your steal does not usually do damage, it just usually steps you to the enemy and steals a skill. However with mug steal does damage, and heals you.
Even triple it… I understand this is a transitional period but this is just terrible. Don’t remove glory unless you have a replacement reward IMMEDIATELY. Let’s say we play for rank. Well my rank is already high, so it takes me much longer to earn boxes when I rank up.
If they want to provide some type of synchronization across all aspects of the game simply increase the gold earned. I thought they were doing this but I was wrong. Increasing gold will allow your time spent in tpvp/spvp to transfer over to PvE and WvW by enabling us to use the earned gold to upgrade gear, buy more gear for alts etc. The gold you can earn in an hour from PvE in comparison to PvP is just a joke… I’m not saying I play PvP with gold in mind (I PvP mostly for fun) but it would be nice to feel like my time wasn’t completely wasted when I go to do dungeons and WvW. I mean come on Anet stop saying “soon” and make a difference now to hold us over until the legendary feature patch.