Guild Wars 2

Since we (might) have a tiny bit of dev attention in here

Can we PLEASE see some love for Vamp/Dagger builds? Seriously.
Give an overall health siphoning boost that makes it not abysmal (since the only real health siphon outside of minions leeching is on the dagger anyway), and allow us do at least half of our healing while in death shroud.

So many cool ways the Necro could be done.. so many ignored…
Sick of being stuck just going “okay bleed… some more bleed… bit more bleed… some bleed…”

C’mon guys…

Any help would be appreciated…

It’s been MONTHS since I played GW2 because, my favorite class being the GW1 Necro, the GW2 was just sooo incredibly DULL.

Before I left I was playing with a Fear build, using an Axe/Dagger for one set and a Staff for the other, focusing condition duration, cond damage, and crits.

Came back and a bunch of stuff is totally different…

When I left the options for sPvP were just repetitively stacking bleeds or using a fear lockdown, and the occasional MM Necro.

PvE, it was conditions or MM. Nothing else.

In their current state, what kind of Necro builds actually “work”?
Fear seems to do negligible damage now, so I’m looking for something that does suck as much and is more fun than just “durrr stack bleeds durrr”

Pyroatheist.9031:

Shinjusuke.9156:

No, not really. I’m actually here as a Mesmer, trying to help other Mesmers understand why our forum is full of trolls right now.

Yes….it’s because you’re still here, making useless whine threads as usual…

These are the people I’m talking about: You’re the one whining, and you’re the reason there’s this issue in the first place. If you want to sit there and deny an obvious issue fine, but don’t flame about it. I made the thread so people would understand WHY there are whine threads beyond the mindless raging, if you don’t like it you don’t have to read it.

knight.8926:

“2) the fact that Mesmer Condition builds outclass Necro Condition by a mile right now when built for it (in damage, condition variety, and utility),”

I don’t agree with this. Their condition dmg is superior to ours. The stacks and speed of stacks they do is borderline insane

P.S. Also if I don’t pay attention to the stacks of conditions they stack on me I’m dead. It’s ridiculous how many they can put on you on a short amount of time.

While you have a point, surely, we outclass them in both variety and avoidability. Meaning, although they can drop a ton of stacks, there’s enough condition cleanses in the game that a Necro’s stacks can quickly become irrelevant, and mostly its bleed and poison, with the occasional spite signet to get their scepter 3 off. Meanwhile, we can hit every condition in the book, have them in reliable rates as opposed to the 1 shot burst Necros have (which gets cleansed), and if you’re using a staff you can buff yourself the entire time you’re doing this.
We also have escapes, and we can burst just as well as they can (through traits, your clones can put a ton of stacks on while they’re attacking and explode for even more), though we might end up with a few less bleeds in exchange for more burns, confusions, and dazes.

As for them putting stacks on you, we’ve always got the ability to steal their boons and hand them back some of those annoying bleeds, or just plain disengage, heal, and come back while their burst is on CD

No, not really. I’m actually here as a Mesmer, trying to help other Mesmers understand why our forum is full of trolls right now. Try to pay attention with an open mind, think back to your days in GW1 when Mesmers sucked as, and have a little empathy. Not saying the trolling and spamming is justified, but let me explain why it’s there. I should clarify I come from the perspective of someone who has played both classes in both games, prefers Mesmers in GW2 and Necros in GW1 (for a reason, as I’ll explain), and that I am speaking mainly regarding sPvP, though many of the flaws apply to PvE as well.

First, you have to get your head out of your kitten and look at the situation, WITHOUT just writing off the obvious design problems as kitten kids raging. They do have legitimate claims:

1)the fact that a Mesmer can repeatedly and forcibly unlock a Necro + force them to cycle through 2-3 clones EVERY time they’re forcibly unlocked ruins all Necro condition builds,

2) the fact that Mesmer Condition builds outclass Necro Condition by a mile right now when built for it (in damage, condition variety, and utility),

3) the fact that Mesmers are better Minion Masters due to their inexhaustible supply of minions + their ability to cause those minions to do cool, debilitating effects. Not to mention Minions on a necro take up utility skill slots, whereas Mesmers get them for free

4) The fact that Moa has completely ruined minion-master Necros (nerfed or not, it’s still a forcible destruction of all necro minions + forcing them on CD)

5) The fact that they have access to a ton more self-buffs than necros, including the dreaded retaliation, and on top of this have tons of escapes to Necro’s 1 (flesh worm, with a long channel time. DS isn’t an escape against any skilled opponent),

6) The amazing synergy to Mesmer kits, as opposed to the current disparity all throughout Necro kits

7) the difference in usefulness between Mesmer and Necro class skills (meaning the f1-f4, DS is hated by most all Necros because it’s essentially useless in PvP, most view it as nothing but a crappy shield + a short fear)

8) The obvious difference in ANets attention paid between the two classes (the last post from a red in the Necro forums was months ago), not to mention the obvious interest in design creativity between the two (look at ANY of the weapons comparitively in their range groups: Necro Staff vs Mesmer Staff for example)..

You get the idea. I could go on but as an avid GW1 Necro, they butchered the GW2 Necro, made the Mesmer a similar class that does literally EVERYTHING a Necro can do but better (except fear of course, unless you go condition Mesmer in PvP and use Nightmare runes, which I do. Works great btw), and then they just dropped interest in making Necro a fun, creative, or “good” class.
The trolls are annoying, sure, but at least be aware that there are 3 really strong reasons they’re here:

1) Devs have completely ignored Necros for months now

2) Mesmers counter Necros in every possible way, no matter what Necro build you’re using.

3) Mesmers outshine Necros in their own territory. Any Necro build except for the relatively new fear builds can be built on a Mesmer and be built better right now.

Unfortunately, until ANet gets their heads out of their kitten about these issues, the trolls will keep coming, and though they shouldn’t be mad at the Mesmer community, the fact that Mesmers have a tendency to outright deny that they’re the favorite child, and that they sort of “stole” the Necro class, isn’t helping either. ANet needs to do something about these two classes.
Mesmers got attention when their community complained about them being useless in GW1, but the same issue is happening for Necros in GW2 and NOTHING is being done about it.
As someone who has played, and loved, both classes in both games, I’m trying to explain that they’re probably right about this, I play more Mesmer than Necro in GW2 because the GW2 Mesmer IS the GW1 Necro as far as its mechanics are concerned, and the GW2 Necro is just.. laughable. I play it as a homage to GW1’s Necro, that’s about it.
All I’m saying is cut them a break, they’re kitten off for a good reason, and the constant gloating/denial of a problem from the Mesmer community isn’t helping… Remember how much is sucked to be a Mesmer in it’s early days in GW1. It’s arguably worse for Necros right now, and we need to get ANet to care.

Aberrant.6749:

^Necro

Sounds like he/she is still having problems telling the real mesmer apart from clones… and suggests using moa… Don’t listen to this very obvious troll.

Lol? I PLAY Mesmer, dude.

Though you’re right, I have a Necro too. Funny, it’s like you can have 5+ characters…

Nobody has issues telling a “real Mesmer” apart from clones. Seriously, nobody in tPvP. The fact that we can rotate stealths with our clones so they have to cycle through 2-3 targets to get to us every 10-15 seconds is Mesmer is going to get nerfed. Might as well suck it up.

Moa is still OP in PvP, btw. It’s one of the major reasons you haven’t seen a MM Necro in any tPvP high-tier games in ages, or why Guardians wont even go into fights without the Mesmer being absent..

If you wanna talk crap dude, fine, but at least know your stuff. You’re embarassing the rest of the PvP community lol

Oh, that reminds me, since you mentioned Necro, we also outclass them as condition DPS/Utility by a mile, which except for the new retaliation/fear builds starting to pop up (I should add, we also have almost double the “retaliation” potential they do too), is widely considered the only viable tPvP build atm.

But hey, naw, you’re obviously right. I’m just trolling lol -_-"
Seriously dude, don’t get snippy just because you’re not interested in keeping the class balanced. I personally would prefer a few minor nerfs now to the potential ruination that usually comes from a class not being evaluated for a long time. That’s all I was saying.

1) Go into PvP
2) Hardly Try (spam clones, stealth EVERY time they lock you)
3) Wait for clones/allies/you if you get bored to wreck face.

Seriously, if you haven’t tried PvP yet, this is the class you wanna start with (provided you don’t mind hating other classes for not being as good in PvP, except maybe the unkillable ranger builds).

Spawn clones with weapon skills/one of your utilities, instantly ruin a player with our Moa Bird skill (which we, I don’t even have the first clue how, STILL have as essentially a free 10 seconds to set up/crap on someone in PvP), and have the rest of your skills as stealth skills (so you can make a clone and then forcibly un-lock your opponent).

I’m worried for the Mesmer, eventually ANet will realize there’s a REASON you wont go into a tourny match without seeing one/see high level dungeon partys ALWAYS wanting mesmers, and then we’ll get overnerfed.

Till then, you can enjoy some easymode

For sPvP, try this build:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQEQNBIhZakRrWPczajeTBIV45pHc7N4QKud3oCID;TwAg0Csocy4kwJrTOnkOtAZ0wmgJGA

Assuming you’re a “good” player, it’ll outdamage most axe builds when played right. It lacks the CC of a fear build but you can solidly lock someone down a full 6 seconds at least if you use your skills properly.

It also is a seriously huge pain in the kitten to kill lol

After some tinkering/testing in both normal sPvP and tourny’s, I tweaked my build some. So far, I frankly do not lose 1v1’s, win most 1v2’s, and do very well in large scale skirmishes (4v4 and up).

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQEQNBIhZakRrWPczajeTBIV45pHc7N4QKud3oCID;TwAg0Csocy4kwJrTOnkOtAZ0wmgJGA

It takes a solid knowledge of your timeframes and cooldowns, as well as consistent utilization of DS and your minion abilities, but I honestly think this build is one of my favorites. If you manage to get some of those extra bonus healing stacks, you’re a SERIOUS pain in the kitten to kill. Nothing funnier than getting jumped and downed, and immediately after knocking the guy from half hp to downed to dead and getting back up.

If you want more damage over sustain, you can put more work into the precision tree: to be honest, the greater marks is optional, I use it because frankly I think it’s one of the best traits there is. In the build you have (potentially) two cases of health regain through crits, so depending on how you build it may be possible to trade ~20% (guess) of this builds sustainability in exchange for more frequent crits. I however have not had an issue thus far.

Give it a shot for PvP, and i’m sure it’d be ridiculous in PvE. It’s a lot of fun

note: don’t be a kitten and run straight into 3 thieves in PvP and wonder why you died. That doesn’t really work for anyone.

Fooling around with some drain builds, settled on this:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQEQNBIhZakRLcPZzajeTBIV45JFc7Nkib3NSByKD;TwAg0CsoGyMkYI7QuhkDtqYEymgJGA

Could I get some thoughts? I’m aware they made the “drain” build concept not synergize with anything at all, but I wanted to see what I could come up with as far as it’s concerned. Unsure whether to go 30 points in power tree for the increased dmg to low hp targets, not sure what i’d take out for it.

Idea is to go into downed state and just plain not be killable without a finisher as long as someone is in range.

Oh man, I forgot Kraitkin. I want an aweseome snake-themed staff like that so bad Q.Q

Don’t spend nearly enough time underwater to focus on acquiring a legendary trident lol

On another note, does anyone wish the underwater weapons could be used on land? I would love to use wells for utilities and just abuse people with the spear XD

I was reading up on this post:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Hybrid-Axe-build-for-spvp

and here is his build:
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNAW3YjMah7xbaa0bKApCPD9YXcrNqQwUKKPdA;TsAg1Cno+y8l4L7XuvkftqYAymAA

And I got to thinking:
1) Axe builds are really slow damage outside of zerkers, and they have really lame range
2) This build relies heavily on them being dumb enough to fight you with retaliation up while you wait for CDs
3) Really focused on soaking up DS energy so you can swap in repeatedly

I was wondering if more experienced PvP’ers can point out the glaring flaws with my alternative, scepter fear build.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNArYWjMah7xbGb0bKApCPD9YXcdOqQwUKKPdA;TwAg1Cqo+y8l4L7XuvkftqYUxmgZAA

Granted, I’ve been avoiding PvP for awhile now, as first Thieves were broken, then Mesmers, then Rangers… all the while Necros feel bottom-of-the-barrel, so my tPvP experience is slim to none. Please try not to get TOO nasty with me lol

I am aware a large flaw is that its lifeforce gen is slower, but in theory, I’d be using the scepter for when i’m closing in for the kill and zoning with the staff other times.

Also, can anyone tell me a solid counter to the stupid “unkillable ranger” builds as a Necromancer? No matter what I do I just don’t have the CC required to lock down a Ranger long enough to kill him before his CD’s come up and he magically heals through everything again/cleanses all conditions.

Finally, one more request, I would like opinions on this condition build, if anyone cares to look:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNArYWjMap7xbGb0bKApCPPV4boH3irzRKOmYA;TwAg1Cqo+x8j4H7XufkftWYUxmgZAA

Thanks in advance to anyone who takes the time

Ignoring the huge amount of posts about how Necro’s deserve some design love (personally I agree, it feels like we’re totally ignored), can’t we get some real Necromancer gear? I mean c’mon.

No self-respecting Master of Death would want anything to do with any of the legendary items, for example. MAYBE Frostfang, but it looks clunky and out of place. The scepter is… well… yeah….. and Bifrost might look good on a Mesmer or possibly Elementalist, but us Necromancer’s have like… Final Rest and Deathwish.

Where’s the cool Necro stuff guys? lol

Seriously, ANet, get some attention on this thread: This exemplifies, in my opinion, almost every single issue with Necromancers as-is.

I mean jesus. He neglected to go into PvP, but in summation every version of Necro is just plain bad at PvP except minion master at the moment, and that’s ONLY if there’s not a single Mesmer anywhere. Conditionmancer sucks because, as Yoh said “removal is a dime-a-dozen”. VitMancer or DrainMancer has been terrible since day one..

I mean really, please, fix this poor class. I LOVE the old Necro class, I want to love this one, but dear god if it isn’t plain awful right now. If nothing else, buff scepter for PvP, and make there be more than 2 ways to play the Necro (scepter/dagger or staff). There’s almost no synergy in this class as-is, and it’s dauntingly sad. It has the potential to be so unique, so colorful (even though we all wear black :P), and it’s just.. not. It’s dull to play and even if you do play it perfectly, it’s still worse (at least in PvP) than every other class. Please, give us some love

Seriously, I know rangers are going to instantly trash this, but I think there could be agreement amongst everyone else that rangers, as pvp’ers, are just plain broken right now.

Without going too much into specifics, building them right should not allowed them to be essentially un-killable without 3 or more people.
They can be built to have nearly infinite dodges, high move speed, and relentless healing. The fact that they’re ridiculously slippery without serious game-play investment (meaning the majority of what allows them to be slippery is all in traits), allows them to constantly heal and drop dps, kiting nearly every other class without interference.
All a ranger has to do to win a fight is run away from their attacker and come back less than 15 seconds later, full health despite still being in combat, all the while their pet (which, I might add, is for some reason better than the ELITE SKILL summon of Necros right now) keeps destroying their opponent.

After running multiple tests with various people, some of which I knew and others were random joiners to the rooms, I can consistently and easily 2v1 as a ranger, doing little more than spamming the V key.

Apologies for the length, but I’m trying to make a legitimate plea here: If you’re going to make a game about warring guilds, that means PvP needs to be getting plenty of attention. Right now, Rangers are just steamrolling, and it’s shameful. As a Ranger player, I’d rather see the light nerfs and tweaks needed happen NOW, than wait for them to get uber-nerfed later when some dev gets kitten about losing to them and realizes we were right all along.

Please, I implore you, balance your PvP.