Guild Wars 2

Valfaros.6908:

Ahm modifier is 0.55…

Per attack * 7.

Using PvP stats and the same calculations it come out to something like 18k.

Then again, could be a bit off on something.

GoldenTruth.2853:

I agree that protection is kind of a lackluster boon to give for an elite. However, giving stability or resistance for a 4 cost upkeep would probably be too overpowered.

I’d rather see them change the elite to a 6-7 cost upkeep and give it resistance. Revenants have fairly poor condition removal, especially if they want to maintain a pure damage spec. Giving them access to resistance would help make them more durable in all playtypes, but at the same time the higher upkeep cost would lower their dps output (especially because the rest of glint’s utilities also use upkeep). This may still be somewhat overpowered however since you could potentially boon share resistance for 8-9 upkeep.

Alternatively stability wouldn’t be a terrible choice either but the upkeep cost would also need to increase.

Revenant also has the potential for pretty much permanent resistance on Mallyx, so it’d be pretty redundant. Protection is something it has close to none of.

The current weapon was created to cover pretty much all use cases: ranged, melee, condi, and power. I don’t think there’s any plan to add another.

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

If you want to eat my energy to burn weapon skills, fine. If you want to eat my energy to burn utility skills, fine. If you want to do both, you can’t make skills that completely shut the entirety of the class down, weapons and all.

That’s not objective. Why can’t you? If you get in a situation where you have no energy, and legend swap isn’t up, you’ve put yourself there by using too much energy. There’s no objective reason that that doesn’t work as a mechanic. Do you really think it’s impossible to balance the class otherwise?

Chaser.2870:

Duke Blackrose.4981:

Because it was overpowered?

Now, that should have come with more buffs to Jalis (caugh, Forced Engagement, caugh).

I think this skill underpowered already
Most case in wvw, just got 1~2 stacks only
cuz skill animation slower than movement speed
as we know, movement is very important in wvw

Well, the point is kind of to create an area where you won’t be CC’ed, not necessarily use it completely pre-emptively like a guardian shout. I still think 1 second is a bit short to make it particularly useful in WvW, but we’ll see.

fluidmonolith.3584:

I assume we will be able to use the Herald spec without equipping the Glint legend if we want to. For example, spec into Herald but use Mallyx / Shiro as legends, and then we’d only have one facet (the F2, Facet of Nature). What does everyone think?

It would be dependent on how good the trait line is and how well it works independently of the legend.

I too have decided that I’m too lazy to weapon swap. I don’t want to be at a disadvantage, so other revenants shouldn’t be able to weapon swap either. Sorry guys.

lighter.2708:

Nobody is comparing revenant to ele nor engi, except OP yourself and this kidel guy.

You do know that thief exist right? it’s basically revenant (without weaponswap) but on the other side of the bar.
Oh wait, so is warrior but with CDs.

so your arugment is invalid.

Are you trying to make a point or just saying random things?

Shrubsy.9720:

lighter.2708:

Shrubsy.9720:

lighter.2708:

Shrubsy.9720:

lighter.2708:

And? just because the class isn’t balanced at this state, doesn’t mean it needs a weapon swap.

Can you really clear up why you don’t want a weapon swap?

Because the only possible reason I can come up with is that you want an easier to play, more straightforward class.

How is having weapon swap more difficult?
You basically just start with range go in do melee damage and come out range pressure and go in again…double melee is way more difficult then melee/range..
also engi and ele, both classes who have no weapon swap are both classes with the highest skill cap.
what you said is such nonsense…

They’re classes that involve more swapping.

and? thief has 2 weapon set with no CD, 1 utility set with CD
Revenant has 2 utility set with no CD and 1 weapon set with low CD.
both use energy.

not sure why you guys keep saying it’s ele it’s engi just because it doesn’t have a weaponswap, it’s not.

What? The only comparison to elementalist and engineer is because both involve more swapping between skills than your average class (like the revenant).

Meanwhile, you still haven’t given a good reason for making this thread. Can we put this to rest then?

lighter.2708:

Shrubsy.9720:

lighter.2708:

Shrubsy.9720:

lighter.2708:

And? just because the class isn’t balanced at this state, doesn’t mean it needs a weapon swap.

Can you really clear up why you don’t want a weapon swap?

Because the only possible reason I can come up with is that you want an easier to play, more straightforward class.

How is having weapon swap more difficult?
You basically just start with range go in do melee damage and come out range pressure and go in again…double melee is way more difficult then melee/range..
also engi and ele, both classes who have no weapon swap are both classes with the highest skill cap.
what you said is such nonsense…

They’re classes that involve more swapping.

and? thief has 2 weapon set with no CD, 1 utility set with CD
Revenant has 2 utility set with no CD and 1 weapon set with low CD.
both use energy.

not sure why you guys keep saying it’s ele it’s engi just because it doesn’t have a weaponswap, it’s not.

What? The only comparison to elementalist and engineer is because involve more swapping between skills than your average class (like the revenant).

Meanwhile, you still haven’t given a good reason for making this thread. Can we put this to rest then?

lil devils x.6071:

Shrubsy.9720:

lil devils x.6071:

Shrubsy.9720:

fishball.7204:

If you’re happy where you are and T1/2 are happy where they are why do you care at all then. Why would you want T1/2 to take one for the team and change the status quo that as you say, you prefer to be.

Also, honestly if you guys think there are enough OCX players to spread to 24 servers while maintaining any semblance of WvW at all then I have a bridge to sell to you.

I didn’t say where I am in T4 is perfect now, and no additional server will ever grow to the size of current T1 servers under the system. Regardless of whether the GvG guild moves was planned yesterday, or two years ago (an irrelevant point), T3 is likely to fill up. Population will then overflow into T4, and continue to cascade creating a fairly stable population on as many servers as the WvW population can support.

Is it perfect? No. Is it better than the current system? I think so. Is it better than most of the systems otherwise suggested that would require a total restructuring of core components of the game? I think so.

“Population” yes, but only for peak timezones. You can have map ques on all maps during primetime and have a ghost town a few hours later. That does nothing to solve the actual problem of " coverage wars". Every player logging in regardless of time they have available to play should have players to play with and against. Anything less than that is a broken system. Making it so the only oceanic player on a server is unable to move somewhere to play with other oceanic players only further breaks the game rather than repairs it. That isn’t better at all for every new player coming in to that and leaving due to it.

They already restructured core components of the game when they went mega server, now they have to restructure this due to what they broke.

They did test this. It’s called EotM. Out of curiosity, what makes you think putting WvW on the same system as EotM wouldn’t turn it into the same kind of kittenshow?

No, they didn’t test this, they tested trying to force merge servers. EoTM is the testing ground for what they want to implement in wvw and from the looks of it, it is a mess.
I have not suggested once the EoTM system, as I think that solves nothing.

Instead of force merging random servers, either :

1) remove all servers without 24/7 coverage and add more maps to the remaining servers. ( NOT EoTM maps those are atrocious btw.. More maps like EBG would be best.)Players still have a choice where they play.
HOWEVER, I think this is still stale gameplay long term and not the better solution. The better solution would be to :

2)Make matches much shorter ( a day or even less), Make wvw non server based, guilds/ players choose a team before playing and cannot switch teams until the match is over. When one side is full it is full , players can only enter other teams. Have multiple matches going on at once. This would allow for players to play with and against a variety of players every time.

Problems I see with #1:

You can’t remove all servers without 24/7 coverage. If the NA to OCX is a conservative 10:1, you’re still going to end up with either huge queues for NA or 9/10 empty maps during OCX.

Problems I see with #2:

You run into all the same problems as EotM. Primarily: No reason to give a kitten. The match is too short to give a sense of importance. Lack of a consistent/dedicated team throws any meaningful strategy out of the window. Multiple overflows strip a feeling of purpose on individual instances. And on, and on, and on… I just see this one being completely horrendous.

lil devils x.6071:

Shrubsy.9720:

fishball.7204:

If you’re happy where you are and T1/2 are happy where they are why do you care at all then. Why would you want T1/2 to take one for the team and change the status quo that as you say, you prefer to be.

Also, honestly if you guys think there are enough OCX players to spread to 24 servers while maintaining any semblance of WvW at all then I have a bridge to sell to you.

I didn’t say where I am in T4 is perfect now, and no additional server will ever grow to the size of current T1 servers under the system. Regardless of whether the GvG guild moves was planned yesterday, or two years ago (an irrelevant point), T3 is likely to fill up. Population will then overflow into T4, and continue to cascade creating a fairly stable population on as many servers as the WvW population can support.

Is it perfect? No. Is it better than the current system? I think so. Is it better than most of the systems otherwise suggested that would require a total restructuring of core components of the game? I think so.

“Population” yes, but only for peak timezones. You can have map ques on all maps during primetime and have a ghost town a few hours later. That does nothing to solve the actual problem of " coverage wars". Every player logging in regardless of time they have available to play should have players to play with and against. Anything less than that is a broken system. Making it so the only oceanic player on a server is unable to move somewhere to play with other oceanic players only further breaks the game rather than repairs it. That isn’t better at all for every new player coming in to that and leaving due to it.

They already restructured core components of the game when they went mega server, now they have to restructure this due to what they broke.

They did test this. It’s called EotM. Out of curiosity, what makes you think putting WvW on the same system as EotM wouldn’t turn it into the same kind of kittenshow?

fishball.7204:

If you’re happy where you are and T1/2 are happy where they are why do you care at all then. Why would you want T1/2 to take one for the team and change the status quo that as you say, you prefer to be.

Also, honestly if you guys think there are enough OCX players to spread to 24 servers while maintaining any semblance of WvW at all then I have a bridge to sell to you.

I didn’t say where I am in T4 is perfect now, and no additional server will ever grow to the size of current T1 servers under the system. Regardless of whether the GvG guild moves was planned yesterday, or two years ago (an irrelevant point), T3 is likely to fill up. Population will then overflow into T4, and continue to cascade creating a fairly stable population on as many servers as the WvW population can support.

Is it perfect? No. Is it better than the current system? I think so. Is it better than most of the systems otherwise suggested that would require a total restructuring of core components of the game? I think so.

lil devils x.6071:

That is all changing atm due to the shift in GvG tier. Most of T1 and 2 are locked, T3 could possibly get locked soon with the GvG move to turn T3 into what T2 was, if they are moving alt accounts, the full servers still keep their population while locking others as well..

Carried? WHO is " carrying" us? I really do not think you have any idea what you are talking about if you think someone needs to " carry" us. ATM they locked a server that we win when we choose to win. I really wish they would let more people get on to BG, I felt bad for them this week.

Tier 3 is already getting an influx of players, if they manage to fill up (as you mentioned) population will start to overflow and we’ll probably even see some healthy competition between tiers 2 and 3. With the influx from the expansion, tier 4+ could follow suit. Hopefully by some miracle tier 1 will bleed out fairly quickly and actually be challenged for once—wouldn’t that be fun?

I’m sorry this inconveniences you and your guild.

Based on your diatribes, you seem to think most players ideal is a T1/EotM all maps queued extravaganza, but the fact is most of below T1/T2 aren’t still here because we’re helpless peons—we’re here because this is where we prefer to be. So kindly just suck it up and take one for the team.

lighter.2708:

Shrubsy.9720:

lighter.2708:

And? just because the class isn’t balanced at this state, doesn’t mean it needs a weapon swap.

Can you really clear up why you don’t want a weapon swap?

Because the only possible reason I can come up with is that you want an easier to play, more straightforward class.

How is having weapon swap more difficult?
You basically just start with range go in do melee damage and come out range pressure and go in again…double melee is way more difficult then melee/range..
also engi and ele, both classes who have no weapon swap are both classes with the highest skill cap.
what you said is such nonsense…

They’re classes that involve more swapping. As will revenant. It’ll essentially have 4 potential weapon/legend combinations, with separate cooldowns on each component. That’s potentially a much more complicated dynamic than either ele or engine. It’s pretty exciting. If your having trouble seeing how this is true, I’d strongly suggest you try it out and then rethink your stance on this issue.

But you avoided the actual question—why? What do you or the class as a whole have to gain by limiting it to one weapon set? Anything more than just your personal opinion. What’s driving your resistance to weapon swapping?

Maybe you’d be interested in a server without 40 minute queues

lighter.2708:

And? just because the class isn’t balanced at this state, doesn’t mean it needs a weapon swap.

Can you really clear up why you don’t want a weapon swap?

Because the only possible reason I can come up with is that you want an easier to play, more straightforward class.

lil devils x.6071:

butch.8136:

lil devils x.6071:

illenos.5134:

x indigo x.6981:

Please don’t get discouraged .. THIS IS AN AMAZING CHANGE TO WVW! and all the true wvw players who has vision know it! .. You have my support here from TC.

“All the true wvw players”…well I guess I’m not trve enough to understand this change. For me it seems to be as half thought out as the golem rush event but I guess time will show us how and if it will change anything.

“Time” is a problem though during the time that people cannot play with friends or are logging into ghost town servers, we will be losing more players that " would have been" that will leave the game. The issue is this causes more problems than it solves unless the end goal was to have less players playing wvwv all together in the end.

Instead of telling your friends to come play with you , you will have to find a game you can actually play together now instead. For me to play with my Lil sis, we will have to play a different game instead.

Go to an open server to play with your sis.
Fixed your problem and maybe a bit more balance in the population of servers.

And what about my guild, my brother, my husband? I am supposed to abandon my guild and the rest of my family to play with my sis? We could probably make a server full just by us alone.. We pin multiple maps at once and run multiple time zones, and I am actually a leader in multiple guilds. Like I said, we are probably the largest wvw guild on JQ,… Did you read the sig? LOL

Balance isn’t going to be solved by this LOL.

Hey, if the rest of us were really lucky you would pack up that guild and move to a lower tier server. Not sure how important your guild is to JQ, but tier one might even become more volatile and, like you said, you could fill a whole server yourselves. A whole new competitive server rising from the bottom—wouldn’t that be exciting.

Of course, it won’t happen. But some smaller guilds will definitely transfer in order to play together. And as someone on a non-full server, I sure won’t be complaining

Mesmer, thief, and ele have the strongest downs states.

It’s pretty irrelevant in looking at who would win down state vs down state.

Your chances of being successfully rezzed in a team fight are far more important.

tobascodagama.2961:

Shrubsy.9720:

Does reducing mirror blade to three bounces really even reduce burst damage in a 1v1 situation? Isn’t bounce number 4 just going to be bouncing back to yourself anyway? Of course, when bouncing between enemies it would reduce damage.

Not really. And the biggest part of the 1v1 burst has always been Mind Wrack anyway.

Mind wrack is the largest damage alone maybe. But mirror blade is what seals the deal. Especially being unblockable.

ASP.8093:

Shrubsy.9720:

Does reducing mirror blade to three bounces really even reduce burst damage in a 1v1 situation? Isn’t bounce number 4 just going to be bouncing back to yourself anyway? Of course, when bouncing between enemies it would reduce damage.

No, that’s the third hit of the blade on your opponent.
0. Them
1. You
2. Them
3. You
4. (now gone) Them

Ah, gotcha.

Does reducing mirror blade to three bounces really even reduce burst damage in a 1v1 situation? Isn’t bounce number 4 just going to be bouncing back to yourself anyway? Of course, when bouncing between enemies it would reduce damage.

Iavra.8510:

Ah well, here we are, back to swapping out Mantras after every fight to recharge them.

Why they would actually reduce MoD’s cd is totally beyond me, though.

Yeah, that one is about on par with the ice bow buff for out of left-field buffs.

SnowHawk.3615:

Shrubsy.9720:

Boof. It has a nice ring to it.

The main love interest in the original Teenwolf with MJF was named Boof.
I applaud that.

Huh! So she was. Haven’t seen that movie in ages. Wonder if that was bubbling somewhere down there in my unconscious—was just trying random 4 letter/one syllable names as far as I was aware.

Thanks for pointing that out!

JoshuaRAWR.4653:

Gomssi.7246:

You can also counter troll with the new Shiro legend…

ranger pew pew kb, while in shiro legend shadow step to the enemy, attack 5. Counter trolled.

5 has no cooldown either, just an energy cost.

So if you REALLY wanted to be a kitten.. #5#5#5#5

It does have a CD. It was just disabled in the stream. 20 seconds I believe, but should be on the wiki.

Boof. It has a nice ring to it.

In PVP it would be extremely hard to compete without using sword/shiro. The problem is, the sword skills/shiro legend have more defensive play than all of the other setups combined.

Active mobility/teleports are going to outshine the heals/stability/resistance that the other legends offer as far as self survivability is concerned. In addition, all those things are slow and clunky as they are now.

Now, you can argue that the other legends offer group support to make up for that. But, for example, going full support with Jalix/Ventari just wouldn’t work at the moment because you’d honestly have less survivability than a zerker shiro revenant. I’m sorry, but slowly moving your healing tablet to yourself while you get 100-0 mesmer bursted just isn’t going to cut it.

Another example:
Jade Wind: Take 0 new condis or direct damage for 3 seconds while enemies are stunned (or force enemy stun breaks)

Jalix Elite: Most likely die while trying to channel a 50% damage mitigation (not including condis) for half a century

Terrahero.9358:

Shrubsy.9720:

Phineas Poe.3018:

keramatzmode.1906:

while other classes enjoy their one hit burst and load of sustains.

Such as?

While one hit bursts and loads of sustains is an exaggeration, unless I’m mistaken,

You are mistaken. It’s ofcourse not literally one hit, but through proccing and no-cast time skill stacking, it all lands virtually at the same time.

And yes, it does burst people down incredibly fast. Entire healthpools vanish in the blink of an eye.

Mesmers and Thieves are notorious for this as they can set up their burst entirely from Stealth, so you don’t even see it comming. Just that you are suddenly downed. And notice how there have been no changes to either of these professions. So they get to roll around instagibbing people a bit longer. But AMR was over the top.

Was more adding that qualification to the latter part of my statement. I am aware that there are builds that can close to instantly burst certain other builds—static discharge engi being one of those.

Phineas Poe.3018:

keramatzmode.1906:

while other classes enjoy their one hit burst and load of sustains.

Such as?

While one hit bursts and loads of sustains is an exaggeration, unless I’m mistaken, just about every other class is going to outperform engi in terms of combined offensive pressure and survivability at least as far as power builds go.

Condi engi will have some favorable match-ups as always, but as a whole, I don’t see any reason to take one on a team given the other options.

Cele engi? Just feels like dead weight at this point.

Not saying it’s unplayable. Just seems like it’s kind of engi’s time to be at the bottom of the barrel for a bit. We had a good run team. Hoping for engi specialization reveal soon!

Slein Jinn.8173:

Lordrosicky.5813:

The problem with burning is the spike damage it gives. It really is insane

So there’s a condi equivalent to Steal+Backstab, Mirror Blade+Mind Wrack, Mighty Blow+Smite Conditions+Shield of Wrath, etc. What’s the problem? People cry disproportionately about condition damage because… reasons. When a Power class bursts you for 5k, you shrug it off as just another day at the office, but when a condition class bursts you for 5k, somehow that’s overpowered.

Spike damage has always been part of the game. It has also been solely the purview of Power builds, which has meant that for the majority of GW2’s lifespan thus far, condition builds have been, by their very nature, suboptimal in sPvP. Making it possible to create a condition build with spike damage expands the range of build diversity. Isn’t that what all you people crying about “stale metas” have been looking for?

It’s not like you can dodge condis. It’s not like you can completely mitigate the ones you fail to avoid with a cleanse. It’s not like there’s effectively twice as much counterplay.

O wait.

Been PVP’ing throughout the evenings. 0 lag. Although, I have pretty fast/reliable internet service.

As far as engi’s go at the moment, a large majority of them are band-wagoners and baddies that need the help. Been playing an HGH Elixir Gun/ Toolkit build, and I’ve been able to beat all but one or two nade abusing engi’s 100% of the time.

Then I call them on their kitten and they almost invariably ragequit. It’s my own form of vigilante PVP justice.

I’m having fun—Might even miss this bug.

As far as why I actually enjoy the class:
As someone mentioned before, there’s just a nice flow to engi combat. Synergy between skills allows a lot of creative combos. Combat feels more in-the-moment and intuitive.

Exedore.6320:

Fight pacing was fine before changes. Damage is way too high now.

You should die quickly if you don’t avoid the correct abilities. Right now you die quickly if you don’t avoid practically everything. Defensive stats barely help.

Honestly, prepatch balance was painful. I had to play 6/6/0/0/2 zerker fresh air ele to keep from falling asleep.

I know that some people get off on the fact that the vast majority of builds can’t kill them 1v1, but I personally can’t stand it.

Shaogin.2679:

For all those people that seem to think everything is ok and everyone else should just L2P…….Anet seems to disagree with you and has every intention of nerfing your crazy damage. ; P
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Things-we-know/first
Also, for those complaining about the damage so much, you’re wasting your time in this thread. Should be complaining in the thread linked above.

tldr: Expect small changes over the coming weeks to balance things out, not sweeping changes.

MithranArkanere.8957:

Shrubsy.9720:

MithranArkanere.8957:

Roshambo is not a test of skill. Whoever hits first wins. This means latency and teleports win over attrition and skill.

PvP should be like a waltz. 1,2,3; 12,3. Instead, it’s just a single finale note “ta-da!”.

If you or your opponent are dying , first move, every time… That’s a learn to play issue. At minimum, you have two dodges. In reality, every class has a large variety of defensive options. Skilled vs skilled actually is a waltz now. A beautiful one. Instead of a clumsy one, where screw ups go largely unpunished.

You cannot dodge while stunned or immobilized. And you can’t avoid both from someone who pops them from stealth. There’s no time for screwups when there’s no actual battle but a series of 2-second takedowns.

Fights should be on a 1-2 minute cycle. Instead, they last little more than 1-3 seconds. Whoever hits first or outnumbers the enemy wins. I’m yet to see an exception to this.

It’s like a fighting game with 1 hit healthbars that may have blocks and dodges, but then 3-4 of the characters have unavoidable whole-screen attacks that can’t be dodged, blocked or interrupted. It may sound cool for some people on paper, and it will may even work with vs machine matches, but then you play test it in player vs player matches, and it turns out boring as the second hell.

To have real fun battles you need time for recoveries and attrition. People must go sometimes “Oh, snap, It was not enough! They are fighting back and all my skills are on recharge, I screwed up!” The current numbers leave no room to that. Someone who hits hard and fast will rarely leave any openings for counters and fighting back.

Still sounds like you’re doing something wrong.

Honestly, as an engineer—haven’t tried out other classes yet—I feel much more free to try alternative traits and trait lines. I’d pretty much been running the standard 6/2/0/4/2 since launch, give or take a couple points. Now I feel comfortable swapping a specialization here or there.

MithranArkanere.8957:

Roshambo is not a test of skill. Whoever hits first wins. This means latency and teleports win over attrition and skill.

PvP should be like a waltz. 1,2,3; 12,3. Instead, it’s just a single finale note “ta-da!”.

If you or your opponent are dying , first move, every time… That’s a learn to play issue. At minimum, you have two dodges. In reality, every class has a large variety of defensive options. Skilled vs skilled actually is a waltz now. A beautiful one. Instead of a clumsy one, where screw ups go largely unpunished.

I love it. PvP has become a test of skill as opposed to a test of patience.

I’m with you, most fun balance this game has had. Combat actually feels fast-paced and I actually feel like I’m rewarded more for outplaying than ever before.

Love this patch—Combat feels much more fluid, fast-paced, and skillful.

Azel.4786:

Shrubsy.9720:

I love the new balance. Feels a lot faster and more skillful. Condi actually seems weaker than previous due to the fact though.

Wow, seriously? Dude condi builds are dishing out so much condi it is crazy. The damage is much higher than before.

And as OP said, ppl are melting left and right…. went with a tanky bruiser build I was literally dragging my team down due to how fast I died.

I don’t know, condi seems weak. I haven’t tried running it myself, but running zerker and cele engis I’ve absolutely destroyed all condi engis I’ve come across. As it is, condi builds seem more like a nuisance than anything else. Burst ’am and move on.

I love the new balance. Feels a lot faster and more skillful. Condi actually seems weaker than previous due to the fact though.