Guild Wars 2

Loex.5104:

lighter.2708:

Are you saying that Elementalist and engineer give bad gameplay?….

i think you should start READING what others say and UNDERSTANDING it to be part of a senseful discussion ..

i said that the REVENANT Gameplay is much better with Weapon Swap and this fact is way more important than some stupid pattern of “omg there must be one soldier prof without weapon swap cuz reasons”

Engi and Ele are the last classes where you can talk about bad gameplay thoug … and why? … because they are versitile as kitten and can swap the hell out of their Skills to succeed in every situation ..

I think we dont need to do the math how many possible setups Eles and Engis have for combats against the few a Rev can bring to the party (also with Weapon-Swap)

You automatically think that changing utility skills to become more versatile is impossible, but giving weapon swap is possible, it’s just narrow minded and tunnel visioned.

At the end you also said “we dont need to do the math how many possible setups Eles and Engis have for combats against the few a Rev can bring to the party (also with Weapon-Swap)”

so what’s the point of giving weapon swap, if it doesnt fix anything?

Omg this thread is still going?
I’ve tried Rev with no weaponswap and it’s crap. Not only because of the lack of gear change of course.

Have you tried the one with weaponswap?
How can you say it will be OP or worse?

Please stop it. You’re not writing objective arguments anymore

lighter.2708:

You automatically think that changing utility skills to become more versatile is impossible, but giving weapon swap is possible, it’s just narrow minded and tunnel visioned.

At the end you also said “we dont need to do the math how many possible setups Eles and Engis have for combats against the few a Rev can bring to the party (also with Weapon-Swap)”

so what’s the point of giving weapon swap, if it doesnt fix anything?

Nope you got me wrong,

im still voting for conjured Mist weapons – and i will always do that- also for additional Utils that are independend or just influenced by the legend to create more versitile builds (also more not predictable ones) /sigh we need sigils in base Revenant

The Weapon Swap does not not fix nothing thats just wrong – it fixes something and will influence the gameplay very positive but i also think thats not all the Rev needs but it is a step in the right direction and it adresses issues (not all, but some)

Rev is still lacking in utilities (at least 3 per legend) – but that has nothing to do with weapon swap – there was a need to change the first 5 skils and the ws adressed that

lighter.2708:

Loex.5104:

lighter.2708:

HarbingerAzrael.5691:

Weapon swap solves a lot of proplems for Rev given that certain wapons synergyse well with certain weapons eg axe/mace goes with Mallyx.
most of what has been shown and used in beta is subject to change so stop kittening

Yea, then why engi and ele dont have these problems? lets give them weapon swap as well? you will say that’s too op? exactly.
you are just going for the lazy solution that doesnt fix anything while removing the class unique feature..
revenant was supposed to be the heavy that doesnt weapon swap,, if you want to play a heavy with weapon swap go play warrior or guardian, seriously.

Revenant was maybe intended to fit the pattern “1 class per armor type has no Weaponswap” – but Gameplay is more important than stupid patterns.

and the class unique feature is the Legend swap – the Weapon Swap has NOTHING to do with that

And yeah – ws is the maybe most obvious and easy solution – but it does its job

Are you saying that Elementalist and engineer give bad gameplay by saying gameplay is more important than stupid patterns?
no. exactly, you don’t need weaponswap to have good gameplay, as long as you change the skills and values. you think GW2 played like this during beta? no…GW2 had clunky movements and everything.

This class is supposed to be the one set heavy, if you want to play two sets, go play warrior or guardian that’s why there’s multiple different classes, to have different design and cover up different gameplays for all players, i’m not sure why people keep trying to remove unique features, in the end it will just be like a warrior or a guardian then whats the point of playing a new class? just so you can show off? if you can’t become the best at your current class, you can’t become the best at this new class, simple as that.

You’re completely neglecting the fact that weapon skills are far more widely applicable than the situational utility skills. An Elementalist with 20 weapon skills and 5 utility skills still has more versatility than a Revenant with 10 weapon skills and 10 utility skills with weapon swap. Same with Engineer, who, with kits, can have up to 30 weapon skills.

Weapon swap on Ele and Engi would be near pointless, because there wouldn’t be enough room in their respective rotations for a second weapon anyway. The Revenant, on the other hand, was severely lacking without it, and even with it there is still quite a bit left to be desired.

Loex.5104:

conjured mist weapons

No please, stop trying to make an ele clone.

Very silly topic. Just no. If you want just one weapon go for it

A similar thread got downvoted to oblivion on Reddit, so 99% of the community is in favor of weaponswap.

Just ignore him, don’t bump this thread anymore.

Kidel.2057:

Loex.5104:

conjured mist weapons

No please, stop trying to make an ele clone.

Just like the Trapper Dragonhunter? or the Shout Reaper? – i dont want a copy i want versitality and i want just SOME OOC customisation of #6 – #0

Kidel.2057:

A similar thread got downvoted to oblivion on Reddit, so 99% of the community is in favor of weaponswap.

Just ignore him, don’t bump this thread anymore.

Yep its obvious the community is happy with WeaponSwap and so shall it be ^^

I don’t think any Guardian players ever wanted traps.

Black Box.9312:

You’re completely neglecting the fact that weapon skills are far more widely applicable than the situational utility skills. An Elementalist with 20 weapon skills and 5 utility skills still has more versatility than a Revenant with 10 weapon skills and 10 utility skills with weapon swap. Same with Engineer, who, with kits, can have up to 30 weapon skills.

Weapon swap on Ele and Engi would be near pointless, because there wouldn’t be enough room in their respective rotations for a second weapon anyway. The Revenant, on the other hand, was severely lacking without it, and even with it there is still quite a bit left to be desired.

Thank You

Loex.5104:

Kidel.2057:

Loex.5104:

conjured mist weapons

No please, stop trying to make an ele clone.

Just like the Trapper Dragonhunter? or the Shout Reaper? – i dont want a copy i want versitality and i want just SOME OOC customisation of #6 – #0

Those are skill types, not class mechanics. Shouts? Sure, the same as weaponswap. -_-

lighter is basically asking to make utility skills like weaponskills so legendswap becomes like attunement, and you are now asking for conjured weapons.
You both still don’t understand how is Revenant supposed to work, what is the reasoning behind it.

Again, the only error they made with weaponswap is not adding it from the start. Nobody would have cared.

(and yeah, no Guardian wanted traps)

Kidel.2057:

A similar thread got downvoted to oblivion on Reddit, so 99% of the community is in favor of weaponswap.

Just ignore him, don’t bump this thread anymore.

I wouldn’t base Reddit downvoting as an indication for anything really. I bet you 1 copper* that if the opposite supporting thread were put up, it’d get downvoted to oblivion too.

*1 copper because I’m cheap.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Genesis.8572:

starlinvf.1358:

That is a problem that still exists, even with the weapon swap. All the Weapon swap did was band-aid the underlying problem of lacking cross-compatibility between weapons and legends.

I know I’m gonna catch flak for it, but comparing to every other class in the game, you have a range of synergy between weapons and traits….. but no class other then the Revanent requires a Specific weapon for an entire trait line to operate correctly. Even Marksmanship (the next closest pigeon hole) is broad enough to be used on an All-melee ranger.

Sadly, this may be an expanding design philosophy. One of the minor traits for the Dragonhunter more or less assumes that you will be using the longbow (and maybe the scepter) as those are the only weapons that qualify for being beyond the Pure of Sight range threshold.

All classes have weapon improving traits in their traitlines though. What’s wrong with Rev getting the same?

I’m not sure how this connects with what I was actually lamenting about.

Genesis.8572:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Genesis.8572:

starlinvf.1358:

That is a problem that still exists, even with the weapon swap. All the Weapon swap did was band-aid the underlying problem of lacking cross-compatibility between weapons and legends.

I know I’m gonna catch flak for it, but comparing to every other class in the game, you have a range of synergy between weapons and traits….. but no class other then the Revanent requires a Specific weapon for an entire trait line to operate correctly. Even Marksmanship (the next closest pigeon hole) is broad enough to be used on an All-melee ranger.

Sadly, this may be an expanding design philosophy. One of the minor traits for the Dragonhunter more or less assumes that you will be using the longbow (and maybe the scepter) as those are the only weapons that qualify for being beyond the Pure of Sight range threshold.

All classes have weapon improving traits in their traitlines though. What’s wrong with Rev getting the same?

I’m not sure how this connects with what I was actually lamenting about.

Went back and re-read yours and star’s post, and yes, I somewhat misunderstood what you were pointing out.

But I think you and star are still wrong on what you bolded from the original post. How is it that a Rev’s traitlines are invalidated without using a specific weapon?

What I replied was that other classes have weapon improving traits in their lines too, but does that invalidate the traitlines if you don’t use that weapon?

Weapon swap was a quick band-aid on a much deeper problem with the class. But no one wants to talk about how energy is boring and passive…

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Kidel.2057:

A similar thread got downvoted to oblivion on Reddit, so 99% of the community is in favor of weaponswap.

Just ignore him, don’t bump this thread anymore.

I wouldn’t base Reddit downvoting as an indication for anything really. I bet you 1 copper* that if the opposite supporting thread were put up, it’d get downvoted to oblivion too.

*1 copper because I’m cheap.

I can’t be sure because it didn’t happen, however there were many posts suggesting weaponswap and those were upvoted. You’d probably lose that copper.

Xenon.4537:

Weapon swap was a quick band-aid on a much deeper problem with the class. But no one wants to talk about how energy is boring and passive…

You don’t like energy management, I actually do, so it’s just your opinion.

Weaponswap is not meant as a solution for the many problems the class has, but for only 1 problem: the lack of weaponskill swap. Revenant was the only class without a way to replace skills from 1 to 5. So yeah, weaponswap is a solution for the lack of weaponswap. Makes sense if you think about it.

Other suggestions for 1-5 replacement are crap (conjured weapons, weaponswap on legendswap and so on). Weaponswap is actually the best solution and was much appreciated by the community.
OP is basically asking for an elementalist with utility skills on the left side of the keyboard, but he doesn’t even realize it.

Again, the only mistake was not releasing it with weaponswap from the beginning. That initial error generated those kind of threads and strange suggestions that may sound original, but are just a very limited way to weaponswap afterall.

But I think I’ll follow my own advice and I’ll stop bumping this useless thread.

Kidel.2057:

Xenon.4537:

Weapon swap was a quick band-aid on a much deeper problem with the class. But no one wants to talk about how energy is boring and passive…

You don’t like energy management, I actually do, so it’s just your opinion.

Kidel.2057:

Other suggestions for 1-5 replacement are crap

You don’t like other suggestions. I actually do, so it’s just your opinion.

I didn’t say that other suggestions are boring (while some are), but that are crap, objectively inferior to normal weaponswap.
Plus: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/revenant/Weapon-Swap-Sigils/first#post5305274

• weaponswap on legendswap:
  Can be emulated with normal weaponswap, /thread. Also forces to change weapon even if you just need to breakstun/fury or to recover energy.

• conjured weapons on legendswap
  Sure, how do we use the normal weaponskills? And also the same problem as previous one (forced to change weapon even when not needed)

• conjured weapons on skill:
  Sure, let’s force 1 skill slot for a conjured weapon. Also still inferior to elementalists (20 weaponskills with no conjured weapons) and engi (5 toolbelt skills and can equip 5 kits)

• conjured weapon on f3 skill:
  Oh, cool! Let’s give it hammer skills, so I can equip sword and conjure a hammer! Oh wait, with weaponswap I can do the same, just with ~ instead of f3. And with any weapon I want…

• invert legend skills and weaponskills (this thread):
  Sure, ele with 2 attunements and only 4 skills for each one (plus still only 15 total skills, lowest number in the game, but that’s trivial).

Not to mention that all those alternatives also wouls reduce the possible customizations for the class. That has already low customization options.

Did I miss something?
You sure missed the party that people gave when weaponswap was announced (even 3 threads with thanks in this forum, not to mention twitch, facebook and so on).

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Went back and re-read yours and star’s post, and yes, I somewhat misunderstood what you were pointing out.

But I think you and star are still wrong on what you bolded from the original post. How is it that a Rev’s traitlines are invalidated without using a specific weapon?

What I replied was that other classes have weapon improving traits in their lines too, but does that invalidate the traitlines if you don’t use that weapon?

I was lamenting more the Dragonhunter’s traitline assumptions than the Revenant’s.

Just to clarify, I’m not going to use any weapon specific trait except the “dual wielding” one in devastation (that is not so specific after all).
I don’t think most of them are good or really useful atm.
Meaning that no trait line forces you to use any specific weapon (except dual wield on devastation if you want 150 ferocity, but with 2 weapon sets that’s not a problem… oh, look, weaponswap!)
Edit: oh, and you’re not even forced to use davastation+shiro.

either remove weapon swap for rev again or give ele and engi weapon swap, let me tell you why.

Ele is a light armor class
Engi is a medium armor class
and rev is a heavy armor class

now rev didn’t have one at the start and that was perfect because you have 1 profession from each armor class without it, balancing them out but if you break this then you maze well give all professions weapon swap surely? it defiantly sends my OCD in a spin i will grant you that , i surely aren’t the only one that thinks this right?

At least i hope not :/

Genesis.8572:

I was lamenting more the Dragonhunter’s traitline assumptions than the Revenant’s.

You’re not the only one. What a load of crap.

tazzannl.5016:

either remove weapon swap for rev again or give ele and engi weapon swap, let me tell you why.

Ele is a light armor class
Engi is a medium armor class
and rev is a heavy armor class

now rev didn’t have one at the start and that was perfect because you have 1 profession from each armor class without it, balancing them out but if you break this then you maze well give all professions weapon swap surely? it defiantly sends my OCD in a spin i will grant you that , i surely aren’t the only one that thinks this right?

At least i hope not :/

Sorry, but game balance from an objective standpoint is more important than your personal “OCD” (which probably isn’t even actual OCD).

tazzannl.5016:

either remove weapon swap for rev again or give ele and engi weapon swap, let me tell you why.

Ele is a light armor class
Engi is a medium armor class
and rev is a heavy armor class

now rev didn’t have one at the start and that was perfect because you have 1 profession from each armor class without it, balancing them out but if you break this then you maze well give all professions weapon swap surely? it defiantly sends my OCD in a spin i will grant you that , i surely aren’t the only one that thinks this right?

At least i hope not :/

Please go back and read though this tread

Answer to the topic’s title : How about no.

tazzannl.5016:

either remove weapon swap for rev again or give ele and engi weapon swap, let me tell you why.

Ele is a light armor class
Engi is a medium armor class
and rev is a heavy armor class

Not this again…
Ele has 20 weaponskills and conjured weapons
Engi has 5 toolbelt skills and a crapton of kits

Seriously, have you played those classes? You don’t feel any need for weaponswap on them. I’ve played Revenant and it desperately needed weaponswap.

Kidel.2057:

tazzannl.5016:

either remove weapon swap for rev again or give ele and engi weapon swap, let me tell you why.

Ele is a light armor class
Engi is a medium armor class
and rev is a heavy armor class

Not this again…
Ele has 20 weaponskills and conjured weapons
Engi has 5 toolbelt skills and a crapton of kits

Seriously, have you played those classes? You don’t feel any need for weaponswap on them. I’ve played Revenant and it desperately needed weaponswap.

And? just because the class isn’t balanced at this state, doesn’t mean it needs a weapon swap.

lighter.2708:

Kidel.2057:

tazzannl.5016:

either remove weapon swap for rev again or give ele and engi weapon swap, let me tell you why.

Ele is a light armor class
Engi is a medium armor class
and rev is a heavy armor class

Not this again…
Ele has 20 weaponskills and conjured weapons
Engi has 5 toolbelt skills and a crapton of kits

Seriously, have you played those classes? You don’t feel any need for weaponswap on them. I’ve played Revenant and it desperately needed weaponswap.

And? just because the class isn’t balanced at this state, doesn’t mean it needs a weapon swap.

People have explained in rather fine detail why the addition of weapon swap was necessary. Choosing to ignore such reasoning does not make it any less valid.

lighter.2708:

And? just because the class isn’t balanced at this state, doesn’t mean it needs a weapon swap.

Can you really clear up why you don’t want a weapon swap?

Because the only possible reason I can come up with is that you want an easier to play, more straightforward class.

I think some people are disappointed because the main feature about the Revenant was supposed to be utility swapping, with devs hyping early on that revenant’s utilities would be awesome and make up for the lack of weapon skills.

Reality is, revenant’s second half bar is just like any other profession’s utilities. Situational, context-sensitive and with elites that are barely stronger than normal utilities. This makes legend swapping – the main feature of the revenant, a lot less interesting, to the point that if players had to choice between weapon swapping and legend swapping, and if they could only choose one, they would probably pick weapon swapping.

This makes revenant a lot more similar to existing professions (which by itself might not be a bad thing), with the clumsy drawback that, while other professions can swap weapons and use their weapon skills right away, revenants will have to swap legends every time they want to swap weapons in order to use their skills right away. Oh, and in turn they gain a new set of situational utilities, which they might not even want to – but are forced to – to regain energy so they can use their weapon skills in the first place.

In the end, legend swapping feels underwhelming, and I think some players feel that the addition of weapon swapping is a sign that legend swapping will stay as it is.

DiogoSilva.7089:

In the end, legend swapping feels underwhelming, and I think some players feel that the addition of weapon swapping is a sign that legend swapping will stay as it is.

It’s because we have things like the Elementalist (and really all classes have it in some form) that when you switch an attunement (ie. → Air → Fire), there are traits like Sunspot that gives it a baseline function beyond just getting another set of abilities. Revenant shouldn’t get a trait similar to Elementalist but there should be some obvious mechanic benefit that encourages frequent invoking a legend swapping in combat. Gaining fury boon, stun break, condition removal (all in Invocation line) is uninspiring.

What I’d personally like to see is generation of a combo field, ie. Fire for Shiro, Water for Ventari, Poison field for Mallyx, Light field for Jalis, etc. This opens so much more for this class without breaking it even if it was a GM trait.

Kidel.2057:

You sure missed the party that people gave when weaponswap was announced (even 3 threads with thanks in this forum, not to mention twitch, facebook and so on).

Irrelevant. Just because people throw parties doesn’t make them right. [edited] Argumentum ad populum is a logical fallacy and does not contribute to discussion.

[edited]

Idea:

Each Legend could have an upkeep skill which changes #1-5 into a new set of skills relevant to that Legend. Those skills would use no energy, but cooldowns instead, due to the upkeep. Embrace the Darkness is a perfect candidate for such an ability. Same goes for Impossible Odds, Rite of the Great Dwarf, and Protective Solice (with some modification).

This would give the Revenant access to 27 skills at a time:

• 2 stances
• 5 base weapon skills
• 2 heals
• 6 utilities
• 2 elites
• 10 skills granted by the 2 upkeeps

Weapon choice would be up to the player, while legend choice would determine you upkeep, and thus your relevant “swap-to” skills. This isn’t a kit or a conjure. It’s still an upkeep skill. You get to use it as long as you have energy.

Edit: removed some junk because I don’t feel like getting infracted again today…

Shrubsy.9720:

lighter.2708:

And? just because the class isn’t balanced at this state, doesn’t mean it needs a weapon swap.

Can you really clear up why you don’t want a weapon swap?

Because the only possible reason I can come up with is that you want an easier to play, more straightforward class.

How is having weapon swap more difficult?
You basically just start with range go in do melee damage and come out range pressure and go in again…double melee is way more difficult then melee/range..
also engi and ele, both classes who have no weapon swap are both classes with the highest skill cap.
what you said is such nonsense…

lighter.2708:

Shrubsy.9720:

lighter.2708:

And? just because the class isn’t balanced at this state, doesn’t mean it needs a weapon swap.

Can you really clear up why you don’t want a weapon swap?

Because the only possible reason I can come up with is that you want an easier to play, more straightforward class.

How is having weapon swap more difficult?
You basically just start with range go in do melee damage and come out range pressure and go in again…double melee is way more difficult then melee/range..
also engi and ele, both classes who have no weapon swap are both classes with the highest skill cap.
what you said is such nonsense…

They’re classes that involve more swapping. As will revenant. It’ll essentially have 4 potential weapon/legend combinations, with separate cooldowns on each component. That’s potentially a much more complicated dynamic than either ele or engine. It’s pretty exciting. If your having trouble seeing how this is true, I’d strongly suggest you try it out and then rethink your stance on this issue.

But you avoided the actual question—why? What do you or the class as a whole have to gain by limiting it to one weapon set? Anything more than just your personal opinion. What’s driving your resistance to weapon swapping?

Shrubsy.9720:

What’s driving your resistance to weapon swapping?

From best I can tell? Forced symmetry.

Genesis.8572:

Shrubsy.9720:

What’s driving your resistance to weapon swapping?

From best I can tell? Forced symmetry.

Don’t remember if it’s him or not, but if I recall he made or partecipate in that thread with suggestions to fix the weaponswap problem, then they didn’t use his idea, the one he was convinced was the best option.

Shrubsy.9720:

lighter.2708:

Shrubsy.9720:

lighter.2708:

And? just because the class isn’t balanced at this state, doesn’t mean it needs a weapon swap.

Can you really clear up why you don’t want a weapon swap?

Because the only possible reason I can come up with is that you want an easier to play, more straightforward class.

How is having weapon swap more difficult?
You basically just start with range go in do melee damage and come out range pressure and go in again…double melee is way more difficult then melee/range..
also engi and ele, both classes who have no weapon swap are both classes with the highest skill cap.
what you said is such nonsense…

They’re classes that involve more swapping.

and? thief has 2 weapon set with no CD, 1 utility set with CD
Revenant has 2 utility set with no CD and 1 weapon set with low CD.
both use energy.

not sure why you guys keep saying it’s ele it’s engi just because it doesn’t have a weaponswap, it’s not.

lighter.2708:

Shrubsy.9720:

lighter.2708:

Shrubsy.9720:

lighter.2708:

And? just because the class isn’t balanced at this state, doesn’t mean it needs a weapon swap.

Can you really clear up why you don’t want a weapon swap?

Because the only possible reason I can come up with is that you want an easier to play, more straightforward class.

How is having weapon swap more difficult?
You basically just start with range go in do melee damage and come out range pressure and go in again…double melee is way more difficult then melee/range..
also engi and ele, both classes who have no weapon swap are both classes with the highest skill cap.
what you said is such nonsense…

They’re classes that involve more swapping.

and? thief has 2 weapon set with no CD, 1 utility set with CD
Revenant has 2 utility set with no CD and 1 weapon set with low CD.
both use energy.

not sure why you guys keep saying it’s ele it’s engi just because it doesn’t have a weaponswap, it’s not.

What? The only comparison to elementalist and engineer is because involve more swapping between skills than your average class (like the revenant).

Meanwhile, you still haven’t given a good reason for making this thread. Can we put this to rest then?

Shrubsy.9720:

lighter.2708:

Shrubsy.9720:

lighter.2708:

Shrubsy.9720:

lighter.2708:

And? just because the class isn’t balanced at this state, doesn’t mean it needs a weapon swap.

Can you really clear up why you don’t want a weapon swap?

Because the only possible reason I can come up with is that you want an easier to play, more straightforward class.

How is having weapon swap more difficult?
You basically just start with range go in do melee damage and come out range pressure and go in again…double melee is way more difficult then melee/range..
also engi and ele, both classes who have no weapon swap are both classes with the highest skill cap.
what you said is such nonsense…

They’re classes that involve more swapping.

and? thief has 2 weapon set with no CD, 1 utility set with CD
Revenant has 2 utility set with no CD and 1 weapon set with low CD.
both use energy.

not sure why you guys keep saying it’s ele it’s engi just because it doesn’t have a weaponswap, it’s not.

What? The only comparison to elementalist and engineer is because both involve more swapping between skills than your average class (like the revenant).

Meanwhile, you still haven’t given a good reason for making this thread. Can we put this to rest then?

lighter.2708:

Shrubsy.9720:

lighter.2708:

Shrubsy.9720:

lighter.2708:

And? just because the class isn’t balanced at this state, doesn’t mean it needs a weapon swap.

Can you really clear up why you don’t want a weapon swap?

Because the only possible reason I can come up with is that you want an easier to play, more straightforward class.

How is having weapon swap more difficult?
You basically just start with range go in do melee damage and come out range pressure and go in again…double melee is way more difficult then melee/range..
also engi and ele, both classes who have no weapon swap are both classes with the highest skill cap.
what you said is such nonsense…

They’re classes that involve more swapping.

and? thief has 2 weapon set with no CD, 1 utility set with CD
Revenant has 2 utility set with no CD and 1 weapon set with low CD.
both use energy.

not sure why you guys keep saying it’s ele it’s engi just because it doesn’t have a weaponswap, it’s not.

And still you keep treating utility set and weapon set as if they were the same thing.
2 weapon sets is NOT the same as 2 utility sets. Utility skills and weapon skills are completely different. Not to mention the healing skill.

And still you fail to notice that other classes can customize and arrange utility skills.
1 Revenant utility set is NOT 1 Thief utility set. Revenants needs 2 utility sets to be somewhat competitive with a normal utility set.

And still you fail to notice that 2 weapon sets on Revenant is not the same as 2 weapon sets on any other class.
Energy dude.

Incoming “just make utility skills as weapon skills”. NO.
Still no customization
Still ele/thief clone

No thanks.
Stop grasping at straws, your whole perception of this class and of this game is flawed.

I think all of this fighting has scrambled everyone’s brains. Nobody is making any sense anymore. Now, can we all just wait for the beta weekend to actually test the changes? Nobody can possibly give the devs any constructive feedback on the class changes until we get our hands on it to see how it plays.

Also please stop this fighting. I know we’re all better than this.

I gave up on posting here as lets be honest..the same people post here over and over and there is no point to argue with them. And i dont think i care much about revenant anymore either. Im more excited about dragonhunter beta which should tell a lot.. and that cause wep swap killed this class for me.

All i can do is to say why weapon swap is bad. Originally revenant was designed to be swapless profession just like engi and ele but due to his flaws in desing they gave revenant weapon swap to band aid some issues with him that created new ones – olny 1 ranged set, olny 1 condi set, some weapon still doesnt work properly with legends like staff Mallyx. That actually force you to swap 2×. But if you run condi..why you would swap mace/axe? Condi users are left in dust as they dont have second set to swap. “But you can use sword” no, i cant. It doesnt apply any conditions, it wont have any damage either outside of zerk sets.

Due to weapon swap dev can also ignore flaws in weapon desing and sustain and dont intend to fix them. Now question is..where is our heavy class without weapon swap? For people that been waiting long time for that one? If i try to play without weapon swap i will end up losing every single fight.

If i decide to run hammer and dont swap weapon for something else, i will be left with no tools to kite. Due to that anyone running melee will destroy me. If i come to forum and start complain about this issue, what forum answer will be? What your answer will be? Obviously “l2p, you have WEAPON SWAP, use it” and nothing else, it will be my “own fault” for playing the way revenant was originally designed for.

Due to weapon swap, heavy armor and medium hp revenant also wont be great in terms of sustain. As a pure melee character your sustain should be great (look at d/d eles demolishing everyone). But thats not the case anymore. Revenant is not pure melee class anymore, if you run into sustain troubles you can always swap to hammer..right? Revenant wont be a threat like guardian that must be kited as his damage and sustain is too high to handle in melee. Actually in fact you as revenant will end up being forced to kite guardian/ele in order to survive. Otherwise prepare to get rekt hard. Revenant wont receive decent sustain options as you can always swap to “decent” ranged set..

And lastly and most important we can already observe weapon skills. Not olny some of them cost huge amount of energy, but they also have huge cd’s. Revenant was supposed to have low cd’s to make up for lack of weapon swap and some energy cost to prevent playing on your keyboard like on a piano. Lets look at mace/axe.. mace 2 is pretty much spamable followed by not much higher 3 for blasting, axe 4 and 5 has 12/15cd. That also applied to hammer. Those were the first weapons we seen. And now?

Sword 2 has 5cd, sword 3 10cd. Most of the time all you will do is spam autoatk. But its not big deal really. Lets look at sword offhand – skill 4 a block with 15 energy cost, with another 15 energy cost to immo someone (30 energy total..you wot?) and 15 cd. No big deal you say? Well then we have sword 5 with pull on a 20cd. 20cd is not even close to “short”, its huge. Same goes for staff. Whenever you like it or not you will be forced to swap as everything will be on cd sooner or later. That “short cd’s” thing is gone forever and i wont be surprised when they increase cd’s on axe and hammer to balance it out with weapon swap at this point. Trained warrior/ranger has shorter cd’s on weapon skills actually and without any energy cost.

This class needs OVERHAUL due to it non existant stunbreaks and mobility outside of Shiro, lack of sustain as condi removal is next to 0, lack of active defense and so on..Lets be honest, many of people that screamed for weapon swap will leave this class in a month or so, it has no future in game. It doesnt do anything that could replace old classes in pve (not even a reflect..), it doesnt bring anything to pvp, moreover hes underpowered there and will remain so unless they overhaul him.

Personally i dont care anymore at this point, keep your weapon swap, i dont mind. All i want is 4th heavy class that REALLY has no weapon swap. I was okay without weapon swap but now everything will be balanced around it with mind. And to the argument about “people said revenant need weapon swap” back in the beta people been saying exactly the same about elementalist and engineer. And yet somehow they have survived without weapon swap, being actually a high skill cap profession, espesially ele being a meta in all game formats, and you cant even replace ele for something else – thats how good ele is. Yet revenant will share his place with necro being at the buttom, getting kicked out of every speedgroups and overshadowed in pvp by other professions as he doesnt bring anything which other classes cant do better. Personally im dissapointed. LF 4th heavy class without wep swap.

skowcia.8257:

And to the argument about “people said revenant need weapon swap” back in the beta people been saying exactly the same about elementalist and engineer. And yet somehow they have survived without weapon swap, being actually a high skill cap profession, espesially ele being a meta in all game formats, and you cant even replace ele for something else – thats how good ele is.

Because although the Ele and Engi lack weapon swap, they still have swappable weapon skills (gained either through kits or attunements) plus customizable utilities that allow them to overcome particular weapon skill set deficiencies. I honestly have no idea why you repeatedly fail to grasp that obvious point of circumstantial difference between the Ele/Engi and Rev professions.

Genesis.8572:

skowcia.8257:

And to the argument about “people said revenant need weapon swap” back in the beta people been saying exactly the same about elementalist and engineer. And yet somehow they have survived without weapon swap, being actually a high skill cap profession, espesially ele being a meta in all game formats, and you cant even replace ele for something else – thats how good ele is.

Because although the Ele and Engi lack weapon swap, they still have swappable weapon skills (gained either through kits or attunements) plus customizable utilities that allow them to overcome particular weapon skill set deficiencies. I honestly have no idea why you repeatedly fail to grasp that obvious point of circumstantial difference between the Ele/Engi and Rev professions.

Yeah, cool. And when people like lighter or xenon suggest alternative methods everyone bash them for no reason. And the reason behind is “just add weapon swap and call it a day”. You people that wanted and defend weapon swap bash any idea that could modify 1-5 skills cus weapon swap naaaaooooo let it be something similiar to kits, f2 or w/e, weapon swap 4ever, it doesnt matter, nothing else is needed. Weapon swap for the win. Yeah why not, lets make him guardian v.2 (old guardian still has 18 skills in combat compared to 20 from rev) with new fx. I mean what stops them to add something unique rather than boring and unnecessary weapon swap? Nothing.

In defense of ele and engi you guys keep saying they have attunements/kits so they are fine as it is. What really stop developer to desing similiar system to them? .Nothing, except forum feedback of people that will leave this class once they realize how bad it is. Revenant just like ele and engi should receive f2-4/5 keys. But as i said weapon swap is the easier solution right? In the end weapon swap doesnt solve any issues outside of ability to swap between close/range combat. In fact few people here dont want to hear about anything else that inst weapon swap.

Im actually looking forward to the next beta but not to play revenant, but to record a vid where i 1vX them on my dragonhunter and teabags these poor souls for some lulz. Beta and revenant will be fun at this point indeed

Also the “population” of revenant looks quite dead judging by the activity on this forum. Yeah and that is my last post here for a good few days. No point to discuss with.. Ciaooo.

skowcia.8257:

Originally revenant was designed to be swapless profession just like engi and ele but due to his flaws in desing they gave revenant weapon swap to band aid some issues with him that created new ones – olny 1 ranged set, olny 1 condi set, some weapon still doesnt work properly with legends like staff Mallyx. That actually force you to swap 2×. But if you run condi..why you would swap mace/axe? Condi users are left in dust as they dont have second set to swap. “But you can use sword” no, i cant. It doesnt apply any conditions, it wont have any damage either outside of zerk sets.

You convinced yourself of this, but it’s a lie. Revenant wasn’t designed to be swapless, it was probably just planned to be swapless. Its design, because of the swappable utility skills, came up needing weaponswap for many reasons, and they already had a build for it before the beta.

And all you said about the 1 set for each weapon type only shows how much you don’t get Recenant at all.
Why do you need 2 condi sets when you can’t have a full condi revenant? You can’t get 2 Mallyx, you still need to swap to shiro/jalis a lot expecially if you also want to use skills from 2 weapon sets, consuming a lot of energy. Closest thing you get to a condi revenant is mallyx+shiro or mallyx+jalis. And you are still going to swap almost every 10 seconds, expecially with mallyx upkeep.

And how are you going to use skills fron 2 condi weapon sets with mallyx upkeep and other upkeeps?

Weaponswap on revenamt is needed for gearswap situations, not skillspam like ele attunements.

Also I’m pretty sure you’ll continue this personal crusade even if you realize that Revenant is fine in the next beta.
Your suggestion to replace weaponswap is just a restricted weaponswap tied to the legend, that is already senseless on paper, so I’m sure you just convinced yourself that it’s better and NOTHING will change your mind. Even if you can emulate your restrictive idea with normal weaponswap.

skowcia.8257:

Yeah, cool. And when people like lighter or xenon suggest alternative methods

Cool, except you are all suggesting different solutions, so you are just allied against weaponswap, even if you don’t agree with each other.
Or you basically want ws gone so badly that everything else goes? Lol.

You want(ed) weaponswap and legendswap on the same button (I still don’t get why), lighter wants no second weaponset at all but just utility skills as weaponskills (???), while the other one (not sure if xenon tbh, sorry if I’m wrong) wants conjured weapons.

And of all of them, one is an attunement copy, the other is a engi kit copy and yours is a restricted-to-legend weaponswap.

All alternatives that players would hate, but you want them just because you want to be “original” while not being original (yours is still weaponswap, just with a restriction, HOW IS IT MORE ORIGINAL?)

Mallyx is nothing else but an offensive set of condi utility skills for extra pressure, but there is no reason to use him other than that as we can go for Jalis (lol tanking) and Shiro for mobility with mace/axe without any problems. Legends are nothing else but a x type of utility skills. Not a second weapon skills. Mallyx is not needed at all. He behave as expensive weapon skills. Neither Jalis or Shiro require a power. They dont have any significant damage atatched to them.

Kidel.2057:

skowcia.8257:

Yeah, cool. And when people like lighter or xenon suggest alternative methods

Cool, the e of you are all suggesting different solutions, so you are just allied against weaponswap, even if you don’t agree on the solution.
So you basically want ws gone so badly that everything else goes? Lol.

You basically want weaponswap and legendswap on the same button, lighter wants no second weaponset at all but just utility skills as weaponskills (???), while the other one (not sure if xenon tbh, sorry if I’m wrong) wants conjured weapons.

And of all of them, one is an attunement copy, the other is a engi kit copy and yours is a restricted-to-legend weaponswap.

All alternatives that players would hate just because you want to be “original” while not being original (yours is still weaponswap, just with a restriction, HOW IS IT MORE ORIGINAL?)

Kidel.2057:

Your suggestion to replace weaponswap is just a restricted weaponswap tied to the legend, that is already senseless on paper, so I’m sure you just convinced yourself that it’s better and NOTHING will change your mind. Even if you can emulate your restrictive idea with normal weaponswap.

A month passed and to this day i dindt received any quote where i EVER suggested weapon swap tied to legend. I love these cheap false claims to discredit my person. I am still waiting for this legendary quote WHICH YOU COULDNT PROVIDE SINCE LAST BETA.

Just like lighter i am completely AGAINST any sort of weapon swap. Doesnt matter if tied to legend or not, im simply against it. And even if these suggestions are not “original” they are still more original than weapon swap slapped on 6 classes. It is also not our job to come up with something original. We dont get payed for any suggestions here. Thats a job for developer. From a customer point of view slapping weapon swap was a LAZY band aid solution. Nothing else, it was simply lazy and uninspired.

Ps saying that i actually “dont get revenant” is also funny, considering the fact i am not the one here without any clue how energy works etc by talking about recovering 40 energy in 3 seconds and other bs – and unlike you i can provide quotes+source links. Either way that was my last post directed towards you, i dont want to bother with people that spread false accusations.

Bye

Sure, lets just ignore that Mallyx has the best and longest upkeep skill of the class with +10% on all stats plus condi copy. No purpose at all, that’s just a flat +30% damage on zerk builds and more life, def and healing.

Not bothering to reply again to the nonsense of not having weaponswap, since most of the community thinks it’s needed and the devs thinks so too.