Guild Wars 2

Poliator.7021:

Spira.4578:

OniGiri.9461:

you should see a therapist. you may be a sociopath.

This is a game…. just a small reminder

It’s actually the other way around.
The whiny OP doesn’t mind (and would probably complain even more) having the AP from the old events which newer players are locked away from. At the same time, he wants the achievements that he can’t get, get removed.
It is just a game, so why did the op even start complaining about the unobtainable-to-him virtual achievement points?
Just because it’s a game, it doesn’t mean everything will and should be given to you for close to no effort. If you want those AP you should do something about it and try to earn them. And if you would, you would actually feel good about getting them.

To be fair, this is not about OP being “whiny” or not. It doesn’t matter if his/her reasons are biased or not. What matters is consistency and coherence with the game.

While it’s true LS1 achievements for example are locked up from newer players to the game (and that is something they totally should fix as soon as they are able to), it is no excuse to start and lock AP behind “exclusive” or “unique” moments. For me, this change goes in the same line of why they are adding permanently the achievements on the PvP BETA maps and, moreover, to the rest of the maps. Simply because they don’t want to lock AP behind content that will never be obtainable again.

It isn’t either like some AP will make a huge difference, but it is important to keep being consistent with the game systems. It’d be certainly unreasonable if they want to now give exclusive AP based on “skill” of some kind when the AP system has always been like a grind, if you want to conceive it that way.

PS.: I am not defending that the AP system is perfect or something along those lines. I am just saying this change is reasonable no matter what the reasons from OP where when making the post.

Oh, don’t get me wrong. I’m just pointing it out that the OP is a whiny hypocrite and that ANET should do both (either allowing all players to get the old achievements or remove those achievements all together) to make it fair for everyone, since they are trying to do this in this case.

Jockum.1385:

Spira.4578:

The issue here is that anet decided to remove the achievements from something that’s actually an achievement if you manage to get it.

So you are here to complain about a wording which is common among probably hundreds of games? Seriously?

All this games have easy and hard 1-shot achievements. It’s not just a wording. At some point anet decided that AP =Quest/Task points. And removing the AP from something that is literally an achievement if you manage to get it, confirms that in this game achievements are merely a wrong word for quests.

OniGiri.9461:

you should see a therapist. you may be a sociopath.

This is a game…. just a small reminder

It’s actually the other way around.
The whiny OP doesn’t mind (and would probably complain even more) having the AP from the old events which newer players are locked away from. At the same time, he wants the achievements that he can’t get, get removed.
It is just a game, so why did the op even start complaining about the unobtainable-to-him virtual achievement points?
Just because it’s a game, it doesn’t mean everything will and should be given to you for close to no effort. If you want those AP you should do something about it and try to earn them. And if you would, you would actually feel good about getting them.

Jockum.1385:

You are 4 years late to ask for a rename of AP. It’s also a common expression which is used by several other games, too. For example skyrim “achievements”: “reach level 5”.
A singleplayer can’t, per definition, have a “be among the top players” achiement. So all singleplayer achievements would be “no real” achievements and should be renamed.
Still several games call them “steam achievements”.

skarpak.8594:

while pvp’ers maybe do not care about ap itself, they maybe want some skin one day.

Imho there should be more AP for playing PVP. The average PVP player is probably not a top 250 player and would not profit from those achievements.
But he can get his 200 class wins. Or do those pvp-map-achievements. Maybe its a good idea to increase the amount of those achievements.
WvW has the same issue.

You can change the name of the points whenever you want. And if Anet wants to use this name, then they should let this kind of achievements in.
The issue is not having easy achievements. The issue here is that anet decided to remove the achievements from something that’s actually an achievement if you manage to get it.

Can the achievement points then be changed to “progression/task points” or some other type of points, because honestly, if you are not going to give achievement points to people who achieve something grand while you give out achievement points for doing things for the least possible effort (like donating copper/silver/gold to ho-ho tron), they are really not a display of actual achievements but rather of tasks that you did in game.

vicious.5683:

Necromancer survivability is not that good as you are saying. And again, Shroud is not a second hp bar.

Go and play a necromancer and see by yourself how wrong and biased you are.

Necro boons: Completely non existent.
Necro damage: between subpar and just fine.
Necro survivability: ok. Its just different from thief survivability, again necros don’t have any active defenses. Just high base hp, and his PROFESSION MECHANIC ie: Shroud. Necros dont have F1-F5 like chronos, or 3 never ending stamina bars like dd. You don’t want “2 hp bars”? Ok, give necros evades, invulns, instant full hp skills, escapes, teleports, etc. If not, stop complaining about a class you know nothing about.

Its like you are just crying because a necro just kicked your kitten in pvp or wvw.

I’m playing a necromancer, besides revenant, guardian, engi, warrior and druid – depending on the game mode.

Once again a x2 HP + shroud (which is another HP bar and adds to the survivability a lot), is in fact a huge difference compared to a class with 12k hp.
Necro boons: I agree
Necro damage: not at all, it’s between fine and OP – depending on who’s playing it.
Necro survivability: Top tier, as explained before, get any other to the same amount of HP and you will deal even less than 50% of what a necro can. = inbalance
A thief will get downed in 1 hit, so will a mesmer. and yes, it’s true that they have a few escapes there, however – while they escape they will lose their damage output – both because they won’t be able to attack while escaping and because they will have to switch to an alt weapon. A necro, considering we’re talking about ticks of condis, will still deal the same damage with his condis even if he has to dodge out, or move away. He’s still going to be on long range and use the same rotation of skills.
And since you mentione mesmers – I’d totally agree with you; If they wouldn’t be lacking damage in general to being with.

And nope, I’m not crying – I’m being reasonable.
Necro needs a big nerf to their condi damage output, which it’s getting as it was already confirmed by ANET devs. So the joke’s on you.

Nuzt.7894:

the difference with PvP and WvW is your playing other people, they aren’t scripted you don’t already know they are going to unleash hell at 20% chances are they will be mashing 1 and it won’t require thought but occasionally a unicorn appears and they press #2.

Which doesn’t mean much if everyone’s using the same strategy.
People in wvw will react and counter react in the same way making it boring as well.
70% of the time people simply spam swiftness skills to run from one point to another.
20% of the time they spam 1 and other aoe skills and 10% of the time they actually might do something right by throwing down a wall, portal and other things that would benefit a side in the fight of the blobs – that is, if they have a good enough pc to not get negative FPS as soon a the 2 sides clashes. In that case they will probably just spam things and hope for the best.

cranos.5913:

The increased alacrity will make up for it slightly and put ele on top again. Depending on what they do with the chrono dmg boost we prob won’t notice an actual dps loss much. Just a big middle finger to people who play the other 50% of the classes.

Which is not the purpose of balance, is it?
We are all aware that balance patches are needed, we’re just not happy their approach to it.

Split modes.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Spira.4578:

EriskRedLemur.7153:

Maybe people should stop doomsaying and whining before the actual detailed changes are released. Who knows what ELSE they will add/change to balance things. I’d find it hilarious if they buff Mesmer despite the doom and gloom here over a signet change.

It could be anet totally screws PvE for PvP/WvW balances. Until we get the actual changes I am not wasting time crying a river and overreacting. IF things end up being as ppl say here, I will be there with my own tears. Until then, I’ll wait before grabbing the pitchforks and torches. Plus I misplaced my pitchforks.

Based on the past events, it’s better to cry earlier, so ANET reads about it and takes it in consideration – it happened before it can happen again. It’s either this, or, well, you know, waiting for the next balance patch in a few months.

They don’t need to budge on the SoI nerf, it’s massively needed for WvW. I WOULD like them to make it WvW exclusive though, since certain things only need to be changed there. Similar to nerfs exclusively for PvP.

Oh, yea, don’t get me wrong – I think that this nerfs will work great for WvW – sadly, they will have a counter-effect on the other 2 modes.
As I said before, you can’t fix the balance by making it better for 1/3 of the game and worse for 2/3.

If they would split the modes, yea, at first it would take some effort to balance all 3 modes (current effort x3 per patch), but after a while, it would become easier and faster, considering:
- they wouldn’t have to wait for the sPvP season to end to implement the balance patch in the other 2 modes (also leading to a possibility of constant small tweaks, making it easier to monitor the changes and making it more accurately balanced).
- they wouldn’t have to keep rebalancing what they made unbalanced in a previous patch by balancing another something from another mode.

EriskRedLemur.7153:

Maybe people should stop doomsaying and whining before the actual detailed changes are released. Who knows what ELSE they will add/change to balance things. I’d find it hilarious if they buff Mesmer despite the doom and gloom here over a signet change.

It could be anet totally screws PvE for PvP/WvW balances. Until we get the actual changes I am not wasting time crying a river and overreacting. IF things end up being as ppl say here, I will be there with my own tears. Until then, I’ll wait before grabbing the pitchforks and torches. Plus I misplaced my pitchforks.

Based on the past events, it’s better to cry earlier, so ANET reads about it and takes it in consideration – it happened before it can happen again. It’s either this, or, well, you know, waiting for the next balance patch in a few months.

Eragon.8234:

There are so many people on here complaining about the new balances before they are even here, let’s wait and until they are actually here before the complaining, they may not be as bad you think.

As they explained in the past, they won’t be doing small tweaks when it comes to rebalance. They will do it big. So if they mentioned it, it will be a VERY noticable nerf.

JFFcrazyhorse.6352:

A group killed VG with 3 people. I think everyone will be just fine.

That’s not what people are complaining about.
The problem is, by doing this change, they will push classes out of the compositions, since they are removing their only purpose in a party.
It’s okay to nerf things, but if their main purpose is to “give other classes the chance to fill that role as well”, they should also nerf other aspects, so that mesmers, rangers and revenants could get the chance to fill other roles too.

Kam.4092:

Is this for PvP or PvE?! You all never kittening say!

It’s for everyone. This game doesn’t split modes….

Lendruil.9061:

Spira.4578:

vicious.5683:

Dinosaurs.8674:

Someone jokingly mentioned earlier that anet would also nerf epidemic too just to screw necros, well you know what? Epidemic deserves to nerfed in raids, that skill is completely ridiculous. It doesn’t just make bosses’ adds trivial, it makes them a negative for the boss, unless the fight is set up in such a way that necros are completely horrible (a la KC). With epidemic nerfed, it would be reasonable to buff other aspects of necromancer to make them more generally useful, which would both improve viability of necromancer and make raids better as a whole.

You say necro’s only reason to be in raids is Epidemic and you wanna nerf it? LOL
If you buff other aspects of necro’s builds then you will generate unbalance in pvp. And believe me, no one wants necro to be OP in pvp.
Epidemic is just right and needed to make the entire profession viable in raids.

Epidemic is FAR from right. There’s a reason why there are “5 necro meta” lfgs for high level fractals out there. Epidemic is OP as hell.
2x higher HP with an additional HP bar, with a ranged weapon that can easily make a 30k beeding aoe ongoing dps (without having to constatnly attack), is far away from just “okay”.

The 5 necro meta lfgs are just clueless pugs and far away from optimal. People chose to run 4 or 5 necros in fractals because they are bad and necros don’t die as fast as other classes.

It’s the synergy between them that makes them broken. Especially where there are a lot of mobs around. That being said, even 1 necro is dealing too much damage.
It doesn’t matter if it’s being played by bad or good players.
The fact that you don’t sacrifice anything (like survivability) to deal more damage than most of the other classes, is what makes them unbalanced.

OriOri.8724:

Nukkuu.6591:

Zelulose.8695:

It isn’t all bad. They are increasing mesmer damage

But we’re a support class and always have been. Our damage is irrelevant, if people want to do damage they should role another class. 90% of classes do damage. Let us keeps our unique active support role.

No kitten this mentality. I shouldn’t have to roll another class just to be able to deal damage if I like playing as mesmer/chrono. The only decision I should have to make is whether I want to run a DPS build or a support (alacrity + quickness) build, I shouldn’t be forced into a support role, not in this game.

Ithilwen.1529:

Sounds as if we’re looking to send Mesmer to the bottom of the list, again. I don’t understand what seems to be an institutional dislike for Mesmer.

I don’t either, but I’m getting really tired of it. It’s almost as if, being a support class, mesmer highlights inherent problems in other classes being OP and then people want to nerf mesmer into the ground to keep their class from being nerfed in any possible way.

That’s why you have elite specs. Chronomancer is in fact a support class, while mesmer was supposed to be more of a situational dps class.

vicious.5683:

Dinosaurs.8674:

Someone jokingly mentioned earlier that anet would also nerf epidemic too just to screw necros, well you know what? Epidemic deserves to nerfed in raids, that skill is completely ridiculous. It doesn’t just make bosses’ adds trivial, it makes them a negative for the boss, unless the fight is set up in such a way that necros are completely horrible (a la KC). With epidemic nerfed, it would be reasonable to buff other aspects of necromancer to make them more generally useful, which would both improve viability of necromancer and make raids better as a whole.

You say necro’s only reason to be in raids is Epidemic and you wanna nerf it? LOL
If you buff other aspects of necro’s builds then you will generate unbalance in pvp. And believe me, no one wants necro to be OP in pvp.
Epidemic is just right and needed to make the entire profession viable in raids.

Epidemic is FAR from right. There’s a reason why there are “5 necro meta” lfgs for high level fractals out there. Epidemic is OP as hell.
2x higher HP with an additional HP bar, with a ranged weapon that can easily make a 30k beeding aoe ongoing dps (without having to constatnly attack), is far away from just “okay”.

Nuzt.7894:

Once again, did someone say WvW was difficult ? I must have missed it, literally everything in this game is built for casual play there is no such thing as “hard” in GW2 in any mode.

Nah, you just keep saying how much easier everything else is, while in fact, WvW is the most braind-dead mode in this game x’D

morrolan.9608:

Spira.4578:

Ithilwen.1529:

Sounds as if we’re looking to send Mesmer to the bottom of the list, again. I don’t understand what seems to be an institutional dislike for Mesmer.

It’s because WvWers were whining about SoI being omnipotently powerful in WvW (2 chronos in a squad, bouncing all boons around, giving eventually the whole squad all boons with max duration and max stacks).
ANET should split the modes and stop doing this already. You can’t balance the whole game by balancing 1 mode only.

It applies equally to raid squads though.

Yepp, however, you only have 10 minutes or less to get the boons spread out between everyone, and you get way less players to support the 2 mesmers with the boons to begin with. Might in raids was never an issue and neither was fury. 1 mesmer and revenant were enough to provide perma quicknesss. Which is essentially what you needed.

Nuzt.7894:

cranos.5913:

Nuzt.7894:

L2adapt, WvW had suffered numerous times because of PvE, furthermore it’s not like GW2 PvE is even remotely difficult. Oh no now you have to use at least one hand instead of smashing your head on your keyboard, whatever will you do ?

It’s never been about adapting. Pushing classes out just sucks for those ppl that main it and is quite frankly terrible design. A 5/5 comp only has slightly less dmg than 4/4/2 in the current scenario, depending on what other buffs/nerfs we’ll see in the patch it’s prob not gonna be much different.

No the outcry is about diversity. Yet another class fighting over one of 4 spots, nerfing 2 good builds on druid so it only has a single one left.

If you wanna be a kitten about raids at least get your facts straight.

Classes have been pushed out of every mode from day 1, this is no different, and it’s no different in any other game. I’m not a fan of Anet but I will say they are no different from any other company when it comes to balancing, there is no such thing as perfect balance, it’s a myth, stop trying to convince yourself it’s possible.

Look at WvW, the first few years were GWEN, since HoT it’s been GREN, so out of 9 classes 5 have been optimal for organized WvW.

Further more I’m not kittening about raids, I’m stating facts, they are easy just like every other aspect of PvE in GW2.

Yea, but making 1 class having a role for which you have to spend kittenload of money to be efficient and then remove it completelly out, not just of the meta, but from being viable in general, is plain stupid as well.

As it was mentioned a million times by now, they should split the skills by various modes and balance them accordingly.
You can’t balance it based on 3 different modes. 2 modes will always get kittened by it.

Ithilwen.1529:

Sounds as if we’re looking to send Mesmer to the bottom of the list, again. I don’t understand what seems to be an institutional dislike for Mesmer.

It’s because WvWers were whining about SoI being omnipotently powerful in WvW (2 chronos in a squad, bouncing all boons around, giving eventually the whole squad all boons with max duration and max stacks).
ANET should split the modes and stop doing this already. You can’t balance the whole game by balancing 1 mode only.

Nuzt.7894:

L2adapt, WvW had suffered numerous times because of PvE, furthermore it’s not like GW2 PvE is even remotely difficult. Oh no now you have to use at least one hand instead of smashing your head on your keyboard, whatever will you do ?

It was never about PvE. It was about either WvW or sPvP.
And if you look at how the balance was being made in the last 2 years, you’ll see how heavily it impacted the PvE play style.
They should just do the extra mile and split the game modes already.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Spira.4578:

Magnus Godrik.5841:

No need to worry Pro raiders will find the new meta post it and all others will follow like sheep. That is the way it always has been. BAAAAAH

That’s not the issue here.
The main problem is that they are balancing part of a game that will push specific classes out of the party, but won’t even look at other roles (and nerf them) to give the pushed out classes the equal opportunity to replace them. That’s not balance.

It has never been balance. Before HoT, nobody wanted Rangers, nobody wanted Thieves outside of stealth, and Engineers barely made the cut. This has never changed since GW2 came out.

Exactly, so they should focus on making those classes more appealing/usable in specific modes instead of nerfing other aspects, which aren’t even the top issue.
I hope they are gonna nerf condi repears too, and all dps classes to be fair, so this kind of “low tier” classes would also get the chance to be part of the meta.

Magnus Godrik.5841:

No need to worry Pro raiders will find the new meta post it and all others will follow like sheep. That is the way it always has been. BAAAAAH

That’s not the issue here.
The main problem is that they are balancing part of a game that will push specific classes out of the party, but won’t even look at other roles (and nerf them) to give the pushed out classes the equal opportunity to replace them. That’s not balance.

Ayrilana.1396:

Only because players feel that they must have 100% quickness. Players themselves are playing a large role is forcing out classes/builds with their over reliance on only meta builds/compositions when other options are available that are almost nearly the same in effectiveness.

You take away a lot of a class effectiveness by doing so.
Both mesmers and revenants have more of a buffer role than a dps one, for obvious reasons. By nerfing their buffing capability, they lose their purpose and therefore, other classes might replace them.
In theory it’s okay, but then again, they should also nerf other roles to such extend (or buff other parts of mesmer and revenant) to make mesmers and revenants able to replace the roles of other classes as well. (For instance, necro condi damage, ele/thief dps, ect)

I am curious how much more time would be needed on average for a group using the existing meta compared to the same one after the update. What would the group DPS difference be when the Rev is dropped for another chrono?

I guess we’ll find it out soon.

Ayrilana.1396:

Triggered.1850:

It’s so sad when people been relying on one style of play they forget that there is more than one way to play PvE. No class should be that important where it IS the meta.

Yeah, it’s sad. It’s as if raids are not being low-manned, beaten with everyone not using elite specializations, beaten with everyone as a single class, or beaten with minutes to spare. But reduce boon duration by an undisclosed amount and now raids are impossible without two Mesmers. To think that percentage it’s being reduced by contributed so much…

Then they should nerf the damage, not the boons, lol.
You won’t see things like “meta 5 revenants” or “meta 5 mesmers” LFGs. You will however see “meta 5 necro party” for high level parties all the time.

I’m all up for nerfs, but they should really be BALANCED, not just random. By balancing it correctly, all classses should get some kind of a spotlight in a party,
but the way they do it, they are just pushing more classes out of it.

Triggered.1850:

It’s so sad when people been relying on one style of play they forget that there is more than one way to play PvE. No class should be that important where it IS the meta.

In that case they should focus on nerfing necros and other dps classes first.
There’s a reason why you can see “meta 4 necro + druid” or “5 necro meta party” for high level fractals.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

You read the announcement as “refuse to deliver,” and I read it as, “can’t deliver.

Not really based on the announcement alone.
They have 70 devs working on the next expac. Clearly, ANET has enough money to pay for the development of the next expac. And apparently ANET doesn’t have enough money to pay for the development of the features that they already sold.
So yea, they COULD deliver it – but are REFUSING to do so.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Yeah, they should have known better than to take up a project that isn’t reasonable for them to complete right now, but sometimes kittens happen, and we’re all watching how they take responsibility for that

If your payment to ANET gets canceled, ANET won’t hesitate to ban your account. They won’t consider the “kitten happens” factor. They will simply act as a company and demand the user to act accordingly as well.
I see no reason why a customer should acknowledge their errors and bad company choices and just let them be, while there’s money involved.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Also, as has been stated previously, there is no way such a choice was taken lightly or without examining the laws

Yea, you stated it. And you have no proof of that.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

And, if you think they’re villains, why are you bothering hanging around in their forums after you’ve made your position clear time and again?

You don’t let the villains be, you try to fight them and make a change.
Why don’t you leave since you made your position clear time and again?

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

..another way to look at it might be the “people I see as mature” don’t have an over-inflated sense of money value. shrugs

Sadly it’s not over-inflated in many countries. If it is in yours, that’s good for you. There are countries where 50€ is half of a monthly wage. And even if that wouldn’t be the case, the attitude alone, to be not just okay with the fact that your trade was unfair, but that you even support such action, only shows how “mature” this type of people really are.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

What decision a person comes to after they feel they’ve given the situation due consideration isn’t meekly accepting anything… it doesn’t matter whether that conclusion is “I hate ANet” or “whatevs.” A considered decision is never meek… neither are the people willing to take the time to talk about it.

Well, I think anyone who gently and quietly accepted ANET’s decision on canceling the development of the expansion to get to the promoted state we already paid for, decided meekly.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

No, that’s budgeting and resource allocation

Yes, an unreasonable budgeting and resource allocation. If working on a new expansion is not only slowing down but actually freezing the development of the expansion players already bought, then they should relocate their resources.
They are building the second floor while the first floor is getting on fire.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Just because one feature

You mean several, right? I’m sure you meant several. As educated as you are about this whole matter, I’m sure you did a research of all the features that got canceled or not being “currently worked on”.

but not as much as ceasing development all together on the other things they’re working on to put more time into something that is currently a money/development sink.

Take away 6 devs from the 70 devs in the expac team, you’ll end up with 64 devs. Still doing what they were doing, just 8.62% slower (meaning, instead of releasing the next expac in 20 months, they would release it 1 month later. This means their profit would be DELAYED by 1-2 month.
Take away 6 devs from the 6 devs in the legy team, you’ll end up with 0 devs. 0 devs = No progress at any rate.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

And it’s reasonable to listen to when the people you paid can’t deliver, their reasons for it, and their offers of remuneration however they’re offered…. because sometimes in life things won’t go your way, and the more you know the better position you are in to make informed decisions

In a trade where I’m involved things will go my way. If I held my end of the deal, I expect the other side to do the same. I can accept the fact that sometimes bad things happen; and that’s why I’m open to other options – However, ANET didn’t actually present any. They acted on their own behalf and that was it.
Yea, bad things happen, however, you’re supposed to deal with those bad things by yourself or you could ASK for help.
ANET didn’t do that. They simply acted on their own without consulting with the customers who already paid to get the product in the state that it was promoted.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Stating you’re upset, considering the facts you have and your available options, then deciding what to do about it in a calm manner is the expectation for adults.

How about you first stop being so holier than tho’?
And to answer to this insult. No, that’s not how things always work.
It is also an expectation for adults that they would have some sense for money value. Which you clearly don’t since you’re okay with the fact that ANET took your money but didn’t deliver the product as promoted. I’m sure you’ll “see this situation in a different way” tho,
“where ANET is the victim who simply wanted all the best for the community”.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

more investment by the company into sustainable content as a substitute for the content they couldn’t sustain

So the compensation for the customers who bought the expansion and got the expac feature canceled, would essentially be the sustainable CORE content which everyone gets for free.
ROFL. Yea, you have a GREAT sense for trading. Not to mention that the company is supposed to ask the customer if they are okay with the change. Clearly, something on this level can’t be done in such manner, so a partial refund should be in order (it’s being practiced with e-goods since 2015)

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

This thread is evidence enough that it’s a bad idea for them to ‘advertise’ what they’re working on before it’s finished

Not at all, this thread is evidence enough that it’s a bad idea for them to cancel the development of the content we actually paid for.

so it’s reasonable to conclude you won’t know what you’re getting in remuneration until it goes live.

Which, as a customer who just got his ordered item changed in a way I didn’t want, I find extremely offensive.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Leave, stay, wait and see, talk with a lawyer, withhold money from future purchases, whatever… But, show some initiative and make a choice beyond raging on a forum.

You must be new here. That’s exactly to what ANET reacts. “Raging” on a forum and other social media.

BrotherBelial.3094:

Spira.4578:

BrotherBelial.3094:

I remember when map packs where free, not charged £5-£10 for better maps that should have been in the game from day one, not held back. But everyone swallowed it

There’s a difference tho.
Those people got what their paid for. The additional maps were not something that were included in the original game and were also not promoted. They were add ons added later on.

In this case, we paid for this product and didn’t get it in the state that it was advertized.

In other words, in your example you’re talking about adding bonus content for bonus money.
While what happened here was adding bonus content for bonus money and then taking some of this parts away.

But we did get it in the state it was advertised. Legendary weapons where always coming later. Same as raids, sure they where a selling point of HoT, and wrongly so, but we got HoT in the state it was advertised.

“Later” is literally a short description of what they said about when and how we would get it.
They actually said we would get them in small groups (first mistake here, as 1 legendary short bow is in no way a group) and in regular intervals – which, 1 month, 4 months, indifinitelly suspended is not.
At the same time we also didn’t get fractal leaderboards, some guild functions and some masteries.
We also didn’t get “4 of the biggest maps of Guild Wars 2”.
All of it was promoted and I’m sure I missed a few things as well.
You are trying to defend ANET based on an alternative interpretation of the things they wrote, while what they wrote is so clear that it doesn’t even need any kind of interpretation.

BrotherBelial.3094:

I remember when map packs where free, not charged £5-£10 for better maps that should have been in the game from day one, not held back. But everyone swallowed it

There’s a difference tho.
Those people got what their paid for. The additional maps were not something that were included in the original game and were also not promoted. They were add ons added later on.

In this case, we paid for this product and didn’t get it in the state that it was advertized.

In other words, in your example you’re talking about adding bonus content for bonus money.
While what happened here was adding bonus content for bonus money and then taking some of this parts away.

Obtena.7952:

Spira.4578:

Which brings us to the original issue: Customers paid, ANET didn’t provide.

OK, which brings me back to the same statement I made before; Anet attempted to deliver that content in good faith. there isn’t some conspiracy to steal from people or cheat them. Anet sincerely wanted to get that content to people; they realize they can’t do it. This is just a reality of their current business situation.

I’m not saying it was a conspiracy.
I’m saying that good faith alone doesn’t make things right. If a player in good faith buys a key on a wrong website, they will still get their account banned. Even if it was done in good faith. And even if he sincerely wanted to pay.

Obtena.7952:

There was never a plan to cancel Legendary development 6 months after HoT.

You’re speculating again.

Obtena.7952:

There isn’t any right or wrong here. If it wasn’t Leg. Weapons, it would be something else.

There is a wrong here. It’s ANET canceling the development of an advertized feature and not offering anything in return.
In any company, if they fail to deliver, they offer a partial refund or a compensation for the troubles. And in 2015, this got in effect for e-goods including online video games as well.[/quote]

Obtena.7952:

Anet expect people to be angry; hence this thread.

Well, having angry customers is never a good plan.

Obtena.7952:

I mean, the whole POINT of this thread is to allow players to make the decisions and take the options they have available to them for playing the game or not.

What decision, lol.
To either deal with it, or take a refund and lose every single cent you additionally put in this game?

Obtena.7952:

People paint Anet as villians and cowards when in fact, this thread was a very up front and responsible approach for them as a company to treat us as customers.

As customers? More like as fools.
What they said is “Hey, we can’t provide you with what you paid for because we have to cut our loss. Sorry for YOUR loss”
And then bailed.
This is not how a company treats their customers.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

No, you cast them as a villain because you don’t agree with their decision. The world is full of a lot more grey areas than we’re taught there are as children.

Totally! We cast them as a villain because we don’t agree with their decision – Their decision to take our money for a product they now refuse to deliver.
If you do this anywhere around the world, you can get a lawsuit, meaning, you’re not acting according to the law, meaning, you’re the villain

I’ve seen no one in this thread “meekly accept” anything. I’ve seen people trying to maturely and reasonably discuss why such a decision was made.

It’s definitelly not mature to be okay with a company not delivering the product you paid for. It’s actually the opposite, as the people you see as “mature” has no sense of money value.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Are you just saying that anyone who doesn’t agree with your position is “meekly accepting” what happened? /rhetorical

It has nothing to do with what he thinks. It’s simple logic.
They said “hey, we’re not gonna give you what you paid for and we’re not gonna do anything about it, sorry” and if you say something in the line of “That’s okay, It’s for the greater good”, aren0t you “meekly accepting” the situation?
/rhetorical

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Unreasonable demands and non-constructive rage in response to this decision is the fault of the customer. Anger is expected, but reason needs to win out.

Unreasonable?
I think it’s more unreasonable that they have enough money to pay 70 devs working on the next expac, while they don’t have enough money to pay 6 devs to work on the content that we bought.

It’s actually a very reasonable to demand for what you paid for.

In similar cases, there are a few different reasonable things that could be done – all coming from the company and not the customer. The customer already paid and met their end of the deal. If the other side can’t deliver what was promised, they should, in fact, give some kind of compensation. We’re not asking for a full refund – that would be unreasonable.
The best thing they could do is restart this group, but we’re aware that it might not happen.
However, what could and actually SHOULD happen, is ANET, react appropriately as a company.

Obtena.7952:

There are very likely things not available to us that paint a very different picture; MANY more things. We aren’t privy to everything. I don’t think we are privy to much of anything to be honest. It’s pretty easy to not understand the dimensions you don’t live in and make bad conclusions based on the small fraction that you do see.

This applies to you as well, so remember those words.
You see, my argument was actually a counter argument to the original claims of some fans who theorycrafted that ANET did that because legendaries aren’t approached by most of the community and that when it comes to legendaries, it’s probably harder to develop the journeys and not the skins.

This argument has less weight as it’s based only on assumption.
My argument, even if it’s only a possibility, it is based on facts, so it has more weight. But even if it wouldn’t, with what you wrote, you shut down any “white knight” defending them.
Which brings us to the original issue: Customers paid, ANET didn’t provide.

Obtena.7952:

Spira.4578:

Obtena.7952:

Spira.4578:

Obtena.7952:

You don’t work at Anet, so whatever you’re facts are, I doubt they have the proper context to frame them properly. What I know is, you don’t understand that Legendary development is causing the content drought that you think Legendary weapons are necessary to fill. You’re just grasping at any straw at this point to justify keeping Legendary development; even the ones that go against your position.

Well at least what i’m saying is based on actual facts.
What you are saying are ideas and theories based literally only on their latest action.
You disprove any other fact (even those that came directly from ANET) and keep talking.

Telling others they are wrong when they provided facts, while trying to convince everyone else that you are right based on your fabricated theory.. I mean…
And then you go and say that I’m the one grasping the straw.

I’m not sure how you came to the conclusion that Legendary development fills the content drought … do you work at Anet? Do you know how many man hours it takes to implement other aspects of the game compared to Legendaries? I get you have some facts, you just don’t have any context to make conclusions from them that tells you those devs on that content is the best way to alleviate content drought.

Actually, I know what they said about it. They said that adding armor pieces is extremely hard and therefore will be used only for rewards.

That’s nice … you still haven’t answered the questions I asked. That’s just ONE of the things you need to know if you’re going to claim what content is most relevant to alleviate content drought. I’m willing to bet … Anet knows this better than you or I.

They most certanely have the matrices for it, yes. I’m not sure if they KNOW this tho, or if they even used this info to take the decision (since MO didn’t say anything about it).
The thing is – based on everything that is available to us (and there’s a lot), it’s safe to say that ANET didn’t decide on this action because it was taking too long to do the journeys and certanely not because it was the least approached content.

And if you look at the past on ANET’s performance, they didn’t really give us any reason to trust in their decision making skills, as well as gathering info (“There’s no exclusive WvW player”…

But I’ll give you that – there could be other explanations to it, so talking and speculating won’t solve anything – the thing is, this speculations started when the fans tried to defend ANET’s actions – that’s when the counter arguments appeared as well.

At the end of the day, it doesn’t matter why they did it. What matters is that they did it.
And we have all the right to be annoyed, disapointed and to complain.
Their decision breached both their customers trust as well as the trading regulations.
If they won’t do anything, people will keep complaining, not just here, but on other social media as well. And eventualy, it will hurt ANET, because a lot of people won’t spend their money on their next kitten expansion.

Obtena.7952:

Spira.4578:

Obtena.7952:

You don’t work at Anet, so whatever you’re facts are, I doubt they have the proper context to frame them properly. What I know is, you don’t understand that Legendary development is causing the content drought that you think Legendary weapons are necessary to fill. You’re just grasping at any straw at this point to justify keeping Legendary development; even the ones that go against your position.

Well at least what i’m saying is based on actual facts.
What you are saying are ideas and theories based literally only on their latest action.
You disprove any other fact (even those that came directly from ANET) and keep talking.

Telling others they are wrong when they provided facts, while trying to convince everyone else that you are right based on your fabricated theory.. I mean…
And then you go and say that I’m the one grasping the straw.

I’m not sure how you came to the conclusion that Legendary development fills the content drought … do you work at Anet? Do you know how many man hours it takes to implement other aspects of the game compared to Legendaries? I get you have some facts, you just don’t have any context to make conclusions from them that tells you those devs on that content is the best way to alleviate content drought.

Actually, I know what they said about it. They said that adding armor pieces is extremely hard and therefore will be used only for rewards.

Obtena.7952:

You don’t work at Anet, so whatever you’re facts are, I doubt they have the proper context to frame them properly. What I know is, you don’t understand that Legendary development is causing the content drought that you think Legendary weapons are necessary to fill. You’re just grasping at any straw at this point to justify keeping Legendary development; even the ones that go against your position.

Well at least what i’m saying is based on actual facts.
What you are saying are ideas and theories based literally only on their latest action.
You disprove any other fact (even those that came directly from ANET) and keep talking.

Telling others they are wrong when they provided facts, while trying to convince everyone else that you are right based on your fabricated theory.. I mean…
And then you go and say that I’m the one grasping the straw.

Obtena.7952:

mrstealth.6701:

Obtena.7952:

mrstealth.6701:

Obtena.7952:

Spira.4578:

Most players don’t even know about this change.

Because it’s such low impact content for most people that it doesn’t affect them.

You keep referring to it as low impact, which in addition to being somewhat vague, is something none of us have the data to determine. Only Anet has the information relevant to determine that, and we have no idea what was actually factored into their decision. For all we know, it could have absolutely nothing to do how much “impact” legendary weapons have.

You’re right … I’m making an educated guess on that. I’m assuming Anet isn’t stupid enough to cancel high impact content that has a low cost to implement that they can deliver vs. low impact content that is more costly that they can’t deliver. You know, business decision stuff based on ROI, etc … much better metrics than what any of us have access to.

let’s not get back into the premise that Anet is clueless about what they are doing, so we can assume anything they do is stupid and therefore, reinstate Legendary development. That goes nowhere.

So why are they still working on legendary armor?

best answer .. Because we don’t have Legendary armor and it’s a specific reward to a high end raid?

But its aquisition is harder – and therefore an even smaller amount of players will go after it. (targeting less players)
Not to mention that they have create 50+ armor parts which will take far more resources than 12 weapon skins.
Talking from the companies perspective, which is supposedly trying to stabilize their profit, what they did is not logical.

Obtena.7952:

Spira.4578:

]
I was talking about general content drought. You can’t complain about the content drought until you have a single unfinished Achievement.

That’s a matter of opinion. Again, it’s unreasonable for Anet to simply deliver ANY kind of content, no matter how costly it is just because of ‘content drought’.

As a matter of fact, I suspect those devs they took off Legendary development are being put onto content that will deal with whatever lack of it you think exists to get it to us faster.

So the content drought argument for keeping Legendary development … is nonsense.

lol okay, I get it – you’re a hypocrite.
You’re telling us: “You can’t demand more content if you didn’t complete everything yet”
While saying: “That’s a matter of opinion” when I used your own logic against your argument.

Also, I guess you’re the one who came up with the theory that ANET canceled the legendary team because it’s targeted by a small group of players and because it’s taking too many resources.

I stated a few facts on the previous page which counter this theory. Facts, not opinions and theories.

Obtena, please, just stop. you have a really flawed logic and a way of not reading the whole message but just the part that suits you.

I was talking about general content drought. You can’t complain about the content drought until you have a single unfinished Achievement.
By following your own flawed logic, MO shouldn’t have disbanded the team, since there’s no content drought of ANY KIND.

And yes, Belial. We’re still here – same as your kind.
And it was proven to you or someone else defending ANET before, that they have changed their mind in the past already. And the only thing needed for a change was their customers complaining.

Obtena.7952:

Spira.4578:

Obtena.7952:

Spira.4578:

Most players don’t even know about this change.

Because it’s such low impact content for most people that it doesn’t affect them.

Some of them own at least 1 legendary weapon.
They simply don’t read the news.
As I said, they were disapointed – so it affected them.

They shouldn’t be … they have 20+ more Legendaries to craft. More content than they could possible handle if they have only managed one so far. I can see being disappointed if you have ALL the legendaries, but just one? That’s makes no sense. If I have just one, and there are 20 more to go, I’m not disappointed … I can’t even keep up with the old ones, let alone any new ones they make.

You usually craft the weapon you find suatable for you and don’t craft them just because you can.
It’s like saying “Hey, you have a lot of content in game. You can’t complain there’s a content drought, before finishing every unfinished achievement”

Obtena.7952:

Spira.4578:

Most players don’t even know about this change.

Because it’s such low impact content for most people that it doesn’t affect them.

Some of them own at least 1 legendary weapon.
They simply don’t read the news, or were simply busy during it’s announcement since it was announced on the beginning of holidays, when people tend to go on vacations, ect.
As I said, they were disapointed – so it affected them.

Most players don’t even know about this change. However, regardless to who I mentioned MO’s decision, they were simply disapointed.

Also, the only statistic that we have about the players involved with the legendary weapons, is the one from gw2efficiency.com which gathers info based on the gw2api. Of course, it’s not accurate, however, it is atleast some kind of info. Based on the graph, 42,5% of players own at least 1 legendary weapon.

I’d like to repeat a few facts from a few pages back:

• Journeys being the hardest part to develop is a player speculation: *
  
  - In 2014 ANET told us that the precursor scavenger hunt system they were developing didn’t work well with the other newer implemented systems, so they canceled it. They said they’ll have to come up with a different system.
  – In 2015 ANET released HoT which included 20 journeys for the old precursor weapons and 3 for the new precursor weapons.
  This is 23 journeys in 1 year.
  – In 2015, during one of the October’s Guild Chat, the lead developer for the legendary weapons said she was surprised that dataminers didn’t find the other 2 new legendary weapons together with the “raven staff” as they were put in the client at the same time.
  – The raven staff was datamined in the test server in December 2013.
  This is 3 skins in 2 years.
  – In 2016 ANET announced that they would work on the new legendary weapons for years to come.
  – Taking in consideration the short bow, ANET would have to develop 12 journeys (half of what they did in 1 year = 1/2 year) and 12 weapons (4 times more they did in the last 2 years = 8 years) it is safe to assume that the issue here are not the journeys, but rather the skin and visuals of the weapon.

• The theory that ANET disbanded the legy team because the feature is being used by a small group of players while it’s also taking a lot of developing resources is also a theory that some player came up with: *

- To craft the Legendary armor the player will undergo the same farming process as they undergo when crafting a legendary weapon x6.
– Raids are being approached by a small part of the community to begin with, out of which an even smaller amount will go after the armor.
– ANET has to develop more than 50 armor pieces (for different genders and races).

Broken Memory.1436:

Ticky.5831:

Broken Memory.1436:

Ticky.5831:

Broken Memory.1436:

Ticky.5831:

Broken Memory.1436:

I also bought the expansion and have an issue or 2 but MO has told us what they plan on doing and I’m sure that with time the new legionaries will come again once they have sorted other bugs and content out.

What makes you so sure about that?

Im not sure about it. They said its indefinitely suspended. That is slightly worrying but i would rather be optimistic and happy other new content will come to keep me happy than cry about something I can’t control anyway.

You said you’re sure about it. I quoted you.

You may not be able to control it, but you can influence it.

That is true. For some odd reason I got some faith in them… Also you say we can Influence it. This is a a place for us to voice our opinions and such. So lets try influence what content they may bring rather than negatively voice what isnt going to happen at this moment.

I’m more interested in getting this back on track than new content, even if it’s not going to happen in the near future, to be perfectly honest.

Well its why I reposted Adrifts comment as it is practical in a sense and is what everyone should rather posting. Ideas on how to help to get the new legendaries rather than slander is a good start right?

Hmm, so the players should get either a partial refund if they dont’ get it to work, or a monthly paycheck for brainstorming how to fix the issue; Essentually, something ANET is paying someone to do.

I still don’t get it why is this even a matter of debate.
We’re the customers, ANET is the provider.
The only thing we have to do regarding this situation, is pay for the item they are selling. And the only thing ANET has to do is react appropriately.
Same as ANET doesn’t care how we earned that money, we shouldn’t care how they are making the item in question.
Both sides have different internal/personal preoccupations, which the other side shouldn’t bother with.

We’re not family. You should start acting accordingly.

Well good thing there are other parts of the game that were removed and canceled as well.

And Obtena, if ANET would really be canceling the content that it’s not approached by many players, then why are they still working on the legendary armors?
Not only will the players have to go trough the similar process as they are going trough with the legendary weapons (presumably the reason why people aren’t approaching them), but they would also have to raid multiple times (considering they would have to get the insights), which is already on it’s own a small neiche.
At the same time, they have to design over 50 armor parts (for different races and genders) while in the case of the legendary weapons, they would only have to make 13.

bloodletting wolf.2837:

I’m fascinated by how many post the same half dozen people have made complaining about this the past 30 pages.

Yepp and we’ll not stop until ANET makes a positive move to calm the community down.
The people on here are the vocal minority that are willing to waste their time complaining on the forums (and deal with some people while we’re at it), however, a lot of players in game are annoyed and kittened about ANET’s decision, but simply don’t want to waste their time on the forums.

It’s fascinating how the fans still keep going on and on with the theory that ANET canceled this project based on how many players are somehow involved with it (and trying to hint us that we sound selfish to want what we paid for), while not realizing that the development of the legendary armors is still going strong, yet, even less players are gonna get involve with this feature as not only a minor part of the community is doing the raids, but after you get the precursor, you will still have to go trough the same process that you are going when you’re crafting the weapons.
Not to mention that they have to graphically develop arond 50 armor parts, while with legendary weapons they would have to develop 16 (well, 12 now).

It’s also funny how fans keep saying that we got our money worth content by just playing the game, while there are a lot of players who didn’t buy the expansion (or even the core game), and also have access to the game, the LW and such.

And the funniest thing is their belief that they are being noble because they are defending a company, while us, the people who are complaining about this company being unfair to the community (including the fans that keep defending it), are the bad guys.

CETheLucid.3964:

But we know it’s not about money for you. You admit as much.

lol. you clearly know nothing.

CETheLucid.3964:

The fact is at the end of the day unless you’re going to follow up on your internet tough guy act, you and I are in the same camp. You’re mad about it. I am not.

No, at the end of the day, I’m fighting for the rights of every customer who bought HoT.
You’re just a white knight. I’m not.

You were right about one part. You don’t deserve my or anyone elses attention.

CETheLucid.3964:

Spira.4578:

Blah blah blah ur a white knight/LOLILLPUTFANSOIMNOTASINSULTINGHUEHUEHUE

OK.

And that’s why the part of the community that is being rational doesn’t take you seriously.

Spira.4578:

Spira.4578:

This is no way a valid argument. What you are implying is that if you don’t buy something exclusively for 1 of its attributes, you can’t complain if that attribute is never applied to the object. While it might not have been exclusive, it might have been at equaly heavy reason as some other promoted feature.

I’m not implying that, I can see the reasoning behind what you’re saying in this regard.

We do disagree on how important to the game said attribute is VS why it was put on hold for the sake of the game as a whole.

I also don’t understand some of the impassioned vitriol in all of this, like they took your firstborn, but I can accept that it’s a legitimate issue for some.

No, but some simply understand the importance of money.

CETheLucid.3964:

Spira.4578:

This statement is also completelly irrelevant, as we’re not demanding a full refund in the first place.

Well, great. Glad you’re staying with us. Guess you’re in my camp then. Let’s see what happens together, hm?

You can pick up your white armor at the desk.

Nope, this debate was never about getting a full refund. If you think it was, then you’re wrong.
Nice try ignoring the next part of the message where I said that it’s about getting a partial refund or compensation for the things we DIDN’T get.

FrizzFreston.5290:

The reason I (intially) support Guild Wars 2 is because ArenaNet takes risks.
Sometimes those pay out and sometimes they do not. This means that when something gets cancelled that is entirely possible.

Taking risks is okay if the only one affected is you.
Taking risks while there’s the customers money in play – that is not okay.
They should deliver what they were (well, still are) advertising.
They should develop this expac to the state they were promoting it first, before taking risks,
because when people bought it, they bought it knowing they would get the promoted features.
There was no mentioning of “we might change our plan completelly and not deliver most of them”.
Especially considering that the legendary advertisment post was released in the beginning of october, 2 weeks before the release of the expac.

CETheLucid.3964:

Speaking of madmen who repeat themselves… yeah buddy. lol.

Yepp. I know what you are saying. However, my complain is based on rational thinking. Yours and anyone elses WK/fan defense is based either on over-exagerated optimism or fanatism, depends on the person.

We’ve long established Anet goofed in making a promise they couldn’t keep. I’ve never argued against that. No one on either side of the argument can contest that.

I was talking about the other guy was basing his arguments on a belief that ANET doesn’t make mistakes.

CETheLucid.3964:

They’ve communicated why they’re putting newer legendary weapons on hold with the release of the new legendary shortbow, and what we can expect as a result.It sounds reasonable. I’ve always considered legendary weapons are for a very niche audience out there.

Really? How about legendary armors (18 legendary pieces pieces + 18 precursor pieces + different appearance on different races and genders, meaning the team had to make over 50 armor pieces. Remember what ANET said? Creating an armor is super hard and takes a lot more time than creating weapons and backpieces).
Not only casuals won’t be able to get the precursor due to the hard content, but they will also have to go trough the SAME long farming process as they would have gone in legendary crafting (converting the pre to a legendary).
By following the fan made theory that they are canceling this team because the legendary weapons isn’t a content that is approached by many, it would be even MORE reasonable to cancel the development of the legendary armors.

I can honestly say I have never run into someone in-game or personally among my guilds who’s told me they bought HoT just for new legendary weapons.

This is no way a valid argument. What you are implying is that if you don’t buy something exclusively for 1 of its attributes, you can’t complain if that attribute is never applied to the object. While it might not have been exclusive, it might have been at equaly heavy reason as some other promoted feature. This statement is also completelly irrelevant, as we’re not demanding a full refund in the first place.

A nice bonus for some, but it certainly wasn’t the prime motivating factor. That’s a new phenomenon I’ve experienced with this thread.

Well I find white knights behaviour way more of a phenomenon than people liking different things and having different priorities.

If this issue is utterly insurmountable to you, you have a recourse you can take to get at least some of your money invested back and end the customer relationship with Anet.

That’s the thing – a lot of players invested a lot of money in this game. While I didn’t invest a lot of it, I was buying gems on many occasions. Demanding a refund for something they didn’t deliver as advertised, just to get the whole account that is not directly connected to the issue removed as well, is by no means an equal trade. And equal trade is the main issue here. Based on the law regarding e-goods that came in effect last year, the provider should offer a partial refund or a compensation for the flawed product in question.

CETheLucid.3964:

Why would he be considered a troll by saying the exact truth.
Since that other guy was refusing to answer to most of the questions the other users were asking him, while he was asking them others and made assumptions about what others think on his own,
and since he showed, on several occasions, that his logic is based on double standards (for instance, us people can be wrong, because we’re just people, but the people at ANET can not be wrong at all); Logic, with which he’s trying to argue everyone elses rational understanding of the situation, even after he got a few pages of answers to all of his questions, it is kinda obvious that people don’t care what he has to say, same as people will lose interest in a madmans speech after he starts repeating himself.

I keep saying it and I’ll say it again – at the end of the day, the only thing that we need to know is:
-Did the customer pay full price for the providers product? and
-Did the provider deliver a full product with everything that was promoted included?

As a customer, it is not on us to save their company, they have employees that do that. As a customer, the only thing that is on us, is to see that the trade has been completed successfully, and react to the situation accordingly.

Same as ANET is not charity, and won’t be giving out free copies of HoT,
The customer won’t give them money either.
The fans, white knights, or however you want to call yourself, might see the HoT purchase as primarily helping ANET, but to most people, who are rational and perceive ANET as a company and not a family they feel obligated to help, HoT purchase is just that – The purchase of HoT (with all of it’s promoted features).

And also, if you look at ANET’s GW2 directions rollercoaster in the last few years, it is safer to say that they don’t know how to read their statistics.

Were fans defending ANET back then when they said that there are no WvW exclusive players? Based on the basic fan logic, ANET knows better, so obviously, all hardcore WvWers didn’t know themselves well enough to know if they were WvW exclusive.

ANET probably based their statistics on HoT legendary weapons. And of course those weren’t popular, since most of the weapons released are not used by most classes (meta-wise), not to mention that the cost to craft those weapons is currently really high.