Showing Posts For Terrordoll.4652:
Oh, I agree, I just think the “attrition” label is ridiculous considering we have no sustained healing when not wielding a main dagger, if only DS wasn’t so terrible… The label is much more fitting of the Elementalist or Guardian.
I don’t understand why people keep making this mistake. Just because someone has better healing does not make them an attrition class nor does having less healing over time make us a poor attrition class. There are MANY factors that go into outlasting opponents. We have a massive health pool, a second health bar that I can refill (in my opinion this should be weighted with all healing comparisons but rarely is), solid main heals and a large tool box full of ways to reduce incoming damage. How does that not equal attrition?
Focusing on healing as the end all be all of survivability neglects the layers and layers of design that goes into class balance. If you have a problem with our class lets identify an actual broad issue and discuss ways of solving it instead of zeroing in on one small, perceived discrepancy and missing the forest for the trees.
We sustain differently, its not that they can do it better or worse, they do it differently. Their’s relies on using buffs and earth attunement to mitigate damage, and then water attunement to heal up; we use conditions and DS to mitigate damage, and then huge dedicated heals and small life siphons to heal up. Its just different.
These types of comparisons are done quite a bit on these forums. Its a shame because all they do is make it harder to have a decent discussion about our actual issues.
Also kudos to you Bhawb for pointing this out without flaying the OP. It makes these forums just that much more civil and enjoyable to be a round.
What is the actual argument about anymore? That a necro needs better “vampiric” traits because he doesn’t do enough melee damage/have enough melee survivability?
What are the actual parameters? Is this only true for “vampiric” specced necros? All dagger specs? I feel like a PTV D/F MM might disagree. Or what about a chilling well spec?
It seems like a circular argument to “point counter point” different builds and instances where we might not excel. You’ll always find point of failure.
Melee necros are viable but maybe not universally so. Going through and highlighting all those places and using them to call the spec trash is ignoring the successful cases. How many builds are solid in all instances? Would you call those builds balanced?
I feel like you’d get much more traction with the devs using Cayl’s general approach:
We want a Vampire build, where life steals for an integral part of the spec, not a frosting as I feel they are now. There is enough synergy there between the available traits and skills that nearly every necro has made that connection. All we want is for it to be a more of a encompassing mechanic in the build. If that means more effective than so be it. The consistent volume of posts on this forum addressing this issue should be indication enough that its something desired by great deal of players and therefore worth the effort to look into.
“Vampiric on its own is 25 at level 80 or if you have bloodlust at around 59, minions are up to 125 if i remember right, but by going minions you pretty much cripple yourself in most other aspects making em unviable for pure siphoning (not to mention that healing them isnt important its the self heals that are, necros are the masters ally healing). Signet of the locus is a weaker heal for utility slot upon hitting all targets healing up to 5500, but ususally less because of limited aoe and lock on requirement (thus placing it on 3k heal – half of your real one) with special NPC attacks not ignoring weakness and not being affected with chill in 9/10 ways (auto attacks aint slowed because they dont have a cooldown and monster only skills are timer proced or %hp based making only caster/light armor npcs like risen corruptors actually affected by the dps reducing component).
Overall if we take a Theif healing kit (only requires Shadow Arts 10 points) a Necromancer has to take up 20 points into blood magic and have 100% crit chance to be even close, losing instantly if the thief has any healing power because all of his regenerative abilites scale of it from 1%-5% pre tick and direct heals gaining from 20% to 50% of healing power.
Thus if a necromancer is supposed to be a attrition class, why can a theif outheal him in long term both solo and aoe, with necros having short time period burst aoe heals in favour because of well of blood+transfusion+invigoration combo?"
Because simply out healing doesn’t mean outlasting and comparing apples and oranges doesn’t help anyone’s case. I think most necros want to see the siphoning skills and traits get some kind of love. I just don’t see how pointing out disparities in classes with totally different play styles is going to get us closer to that love.
(edited by Terrordoll.4652)
I have a few questions on what direction to tweak this build. I’m hoping you guys can give me a little direction/advice.
So currently I am running the base build of 20/0/25/20. The remaining points I shuffle around as I try different builds. About half my gear is AC PTV and the rest is Knights that I’m in the process of converting. At this point I’ve never had more fun with my necro. I got my gear relatively quickly with the help of friends and the difference has been night and day. I can’t tell you how much fun it is simply not disintegrating when people look at me cross eyed. It’s incredibly hard to get better when you just melt right away. So for that, thank you Sheobix.
The problem with this build is its so fun on a base level that I’m having a hard time getting my traits where I want them. Everything I do is decently effective. Right now I run Dagger/Focus with Suffering, Darkness and Locust. I enjoy wells and feel like they give me a decent amount of flexibility so I’d like to build on that. I also enjoy the tankyness of this build and would like to play to those strengths as much as possible. So with that in mind here is my proposed build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQQQNAodWjMaV6ZaKbM8JApHNjNvTKyecIF5uLA
Here are my concerns/questions:
1. You can see I’m trying to make use of retaliation. I think its a great idea considering how tanky we are. I’m unsure if the 2 ways I have of generating it are enough to make the investment worth it. I’m human and don’t have access to the Asura racial. I know the axe has additional retaliation but I would have to ditch staff or dagger for it. I’m worried doing that would remove flexibility or too much dps.
2. I don’t have the slots for the improved siphon however I did take dark armor. Worth the slot considering?
3. I noticed Superior Sigil of Sanctuary has some really decent bonuses for this build. Vitality is always welcome, chill duration is awesome and increases my time on target and the additional chance for retaliation meshes well. The things is I’m worried about all the power and toughness I’m giving up in ditching Soldier Crests. Thoughts?
(edited by Terrordoll.4652)
At some point we should compile a Vampire/Siphon theory craft thread and get it stickied. Seems like every necro has questions about this build at some point in their career. With how unintuitive the traits and scaling are for siphons it doesn’t surprise me. Maybe one of the heavy weights like nemesis can give it a try.
The funny thing is, all our healing traits are found in the +healing tree, but not even 3/4 of them are effected by healing power.
There are lots of traits in each line of every profession that aren’t affected by the stats that line gives. What’s your point?
His point is pretty clear. It doesn’t make a ton of sense that a group of traits isn’t affected by the stat they are grouped with. That fact that this reflected in the other professions doesn’t make it any less confusing or odd.