Guild Wars 2

BRAiNZ.7480:

I agree, rewards should fit the effort and skill you put into the game, just like a punishment should fit the crime.
It doesn’t look like Arenanet gives a kitten; they just want to keep you grinding as many hours a day as possible.
Blocking off the only hard content in the game (fractals > scale 49) was the final straw for me. I have quit GW2.

2 weeks after lanuch of gw2 my whole guild did the same. We were around 24 members, 23 of them stopped playing because of there was no end game content at all at this time.

Rika.7249:

uknortherner.2670:

Tesena.1075:

Nike.2631:

Tesena.1075:

I do not accept meaningless replies.

I do not accept your terms. Fortunately the forums accept mine…

Meaningless

Pretty much sums up your post.

Fact is, it is ANet who run these forums and not you. It is they who decide if a post is meaningless or not. From reading your five-part essay above and your previous thread that ended up getting locked, it is abundantly clear that you are not interested in a healthy discussion but instead are only interested in replies that support your position.

Sorry to disappoint you.

Pretty much this.

If you make a valid point, such as player skill level, only to have it torn down by your ego claiming it is “meaningless”, then I’m afraid it is your post that ends up being meaningless.

If you make a valid point that is essentially rational and true. Then its not meaningless. Give me something like this, and I will fully accept it even though if it against what I am writing here.

Just one example..

uknortherner.2670:

Tesena.1075:

Nike.2631:

Tesena.1075:

I do not accept meaningless replies.

I do not accept your terms. Fortunately the forums accept mine…

Meaningless

Pretty much sums up your post.

Fact is, it is ANet who run these forums and not you. It is they who decide if a post is meaningless or not. From reading your five-part essay above and your previous thread that ended up getting locked, it is abundantly clear that you are not interested in a healthy discussion but instead are only interested in replies that support your position.

Sorry to disappoint you.

The previous post was intended to get locked, It was a small experiment.
This is their forum, that is correct, but that does not mean people can not correct each others irrationality and give rational reasons for doing so.

I would like for people to prove me wrong with reason and rationality, if someone can just do this I would be happy. My intentions is to get a message out and debate about this in a healthy way, and thats why the criteria is put up. It leaves less room for kitten throwing and irrational thinking.

Nike.2631:

Tesena.1075:

I do not accept meaningless replies.

I do not accept your terms. Fortunately the forums accept mine…

Meaningless

You aren’t reading my post either.

If you had two arenas, then one would be harder than another. Right?

So hardcore player playing in the hardcore arena with the harder difficulty suddenly doesn’t have the time anymore to do the hardcore arenas due to real life getting in the way.

So he’s forced to do some combination of the following:

• Make slow progress in the hardcore arena. And not getting on that often either since he doesn’t have the time.
• Do the casual arena and be bored to death due to it being so easy. And not be able to progress on his gear because it’s only available in the hardcore arena.

To me that’s a bad system. Because then it punishes people who prefer the hardcore side of things for having this thing called a busy life.

And it divides the population and would create elitism. “Oh, I play on the hardcore arena. You who play on the casual arena are beneath me and should worship me.” Not saying you would, but you can’t ignore the fact that there would be those players.

Yes I did read what you wrote, and I did understand what you meant. The issue here is that you do not comprehend what this is about.

Your concern is that; if a person is hardcore and do not have much time anymore to play he will not finish his gear and have to play with the casuals. This is FUNDAMENTALLY wrong, its not how the reality works.

Lets say you are on Fractal Scale 60 and suddently you do not have much more time to play. The Scale limit of the items you need is 50, you can still get these items by progressing to 65 (even if it is slowly) and then get the wards that is on 65 when you reach that point.

We’re not talking about dividing the population, that is so irrelevant. Deined- meaningless

We’re not talking about two sides either, we’re talking about two scale levels. A lower scale level gets rewarded with tier 1 items while a higher scale level gets rewarded with a tiwer 2 items. It isnt very hard to understand.

Fundamentally You should get rewarded equally to your efforts.

Seera.5916:

The thing is you can’t put hardcore and casual on two different levels. Because it’s a scale. A person might be 5% hardcore and 95% casual. Or 50%.

Quoting you What if a person was hardcore but then time constraints get put on him and he becomes a casual? How would the game then account for that? Is he stuck on the hardcore client where he’ll have slow progress because he doesn’t have the time to research the changes in builds or time to run dungeons all that often anymore? Can he switch to the casual side without it becoming too easy for him?

My answer: It seems that you did not think fully through this paragraph. If a player have been hardcore and have gotten many items, he deserves these items because he have conquered the hard challenges he needed to conquer to get them. If he did at one time put efforts into getting them, he deserves them.

If this is what you really mean, I find that confusing and a bit disturbing.

Quoting you What if he’s a hardcore WvW’er but likes doing dungeon runs once in a blue moon but he would fall on the casual side of dungeon players? Which client should he be on? The casual one where he’ll be bored in WvW? Or the hardcore one where he’ll only get into a dungeon once in a blue moon when someone decides they’ll let the casual in for the ride?

My answer If you’ve only done wvw in your gaming time of course you do not deserve to get all Fractal weapons on scale 30. We are not talking about two dimentions or two clients, we’re talking about two arenas within the same game.

Qouted from my post In addition we cannot reward players that are on X level (let us say 20) with a Fractal skin weapon, because it SHOULD require a higher fractal scale to obtain these weapons. Not every player should be able to get these skins because; then in reality, there is no reward. You should reward people for their efforts and their ability to conquer, not reward them simply because they exist and sleep through a Fractal dungeon.

Quoting you Due to the nature of the fact that casual and hardcore are two ends of one scale, you can’t split them up into two clients without causing more problems.

My answer Yes you can, you just need to reward them justfully. This you precise in your next paragraph that starts like this: Now, could ANet add in a few etc….[/quote]

JamDunc.2137:

I’m probably going to be one of the only people to reply to this because of your harsh criteria for replying, which almost makes your whole post ‘meaningless’, if you make it so hard to get a debate on.

The critieron to reply on this post leaves smaller room for irrational thinking. Irrational thinking and untrue dabating is not a virtue I appreciate. It does not make my post meaningless at all, it improves the quality of it, because as I just said, it makes less room for irrational thinking.

Quoting you “I also agree with your point about WvW being a zerg-fest, and I did like your analogy to sheep and a shepherd. That does indeed ring true, but how would you change it. Just bringing it up as a complaint in a suggestions forum goes against the very title of this forum.”

I already answered your question here: But how would you change it?
Answer: Another problem with WvW is that you are heavily dependent on others. Nevertheless, I (Kunst – Guardian – Desolation) do manage to conquer castles solo. This includes taking down a wall solo, killing the castle champion solo and taking over the castle solo. This of course takes time and you have to be sneaky. If there was a way to scale castle wall / gate HP accordingly with the players in the area and the lumber needed to create a catapult / trebuchet etc, you as a single player would be able to appreciate WvW much more. You as an individual player would feel more useful. You do not have to follow a zerg train with many players where you do not actually have to pay attention or play to your potential, all you have to do is to follow the shepherd as the sheep you are. This would also make people spread out in the map instead of having a pre-decided route you follow for your karma train.

Quoting you The thing that made me want to reply most of all though was your seeming derision of anyone who doesn’t play like you. Arenanet has done a great job at making this game accessible to all.

Quoted answer: In the end of this post, I would like to talk a little about Casual Gamers. I want you to understand that I do not want to exclude you from the game. That is not my intentions at all. Qoute ended

Added answer I do not expect everyone to be as experienced or as skillful as top notch players, thats quite deluded if someone thought so. All I expect is that we do not get rewarded the same for different effort. I don’t have any problems with casual gamers.

Quoting youI have read stories on Reddit about children as young as 5 playing this game and sitting waiting to be resurrected, because they know someone eventually will. I have never heard of a game like this before and Arenanet need to be applauded for this. But then tell that 5 year old they can’t have an armor set that they like the look of because they can’t do level 790 fractals. Quote ended

You still encourage the idea of rewarding people without any effort. You use a sympathic card to make your point more acceptable. Denied

Quoting you Or in my case, I won’t get to level 50 fractals or do most of the dungeons because most of the time, there are only me and 2 of my friends online and we struggle to find people to come join us in a dungeon (that is one thing WoW did better with the LFG finder). Quote ended

Answer: Meaningless, untrue (if you are updated with your opportunities)
Use www.gw2lfg.com Its easy and its fast, its hard to not find members if you go to this website and put up a LFG and you go to the dungeon you want to do in the game and write in the /m chat LFM etc.

Quoting you Also I don’t have the time to put into it like you and others do. But Arenanet made a game for everyone (except it seems the hardcore minority). I can get nice looking armor, nice dyes, it may just take me longer and with a bit of luck (RNG-wise).

My answer Meaningless, reason: You will get nice looking armor, just not the armor skin that skillful players who do put effort into their playing should get.

Quoting you Those other games that reward skill are out there, like DOTA2 or LoL and from the sounds of it, you’d fit in with their communities very nicely. And that isn’t a compliment. Quote ended – Meaningless

My Quoted answer
Answer 2: This is about improving the game Arenanet have created. When you express such a reply, it indicates that you are not willing to improve the world, not willing to make it better.

quoting you So was that meaningless? Or was it just someone with a differing opinion and as such you don’t agree with?[/quote]

My answer: Yes meaningless. Many issues already adressed.

Tomkito.9308:

I would like that you would add a way to inspect other characters gear and traits. In whatever MMO I’m playing I like too look at other peoples gear, to see good it is.

I agree, its strange that this isn’t in the game already. If the problem is that someone don’t want to show their gear cause of private issues, I find that very strange..

Summary
- Be as rational and as relevant as can be when you comment. (If you are at fault there, I will reply to you: Meaningless, Reason: . . .
- Definition: Meaningless.
- Skill level explanation.
- Rewarding in Gw2. Arenanet spits on the very foundation of rewarding.
- Fractal system rewarding at fault
- Players who are not that good. Explanation.
- RNG
- Mystic Forge
- Dungeons
- World Vs World
- Essence of the post
- Comment anticipation
- Casual gamers / Hardcore Gamers, content relevance.

If you want to reply to this post after you have read it, specify in your post exactly what you comment on, and why you comment on it, give true and rational reasons for why it is as you say. Be as rational as can be, and really think about what you are replying to and how relevant your words are to what you are commenting on.

Casuals / Hardcore
In the end of this post, I would like to talk a little about Casual Gamers. I want you to understand that I do not want to exclude you from the game. That is not my intentions at all. It is a strong idea that if you include a group, you would automatically exclude the other group. I will give you an example

/ Casuals —-—— /———-Hardcore /

If you push from left to right, it include casuals and you will automatically exclude hardcore by pushing them over the line (/ <— the line) and vice versa.

The only way to handle this problem is to work on two platforms within the same game.

/ Casuals ———- / (Can’t be pushed over the edge because there is no end line)
/ Hardcore ———- / (Can’t be pushed over the edge because there is no end line)

I want Arenanet to work on two different arenas. One arena for Casuals and one arena for Hardcore, but reward us differently for the effort we put it, because that is the very foundation of rewarding. One example of this is the Fractal system with difficulty scaling. If only Arenanet had rewarded people equally for their efforts, it would not have excluded anyone. This is where tier comes in. I am not talking about Tiers with different stats, instead tier of different gear looks. Tier 1 for people who are casuals and tier 2 for people who are hardcore.

To reward means to not reward some people based on theirs and others efforts. If you deny this fact, it is like denying your ability to think. (Why it is like so: Because it is right, it is just to reward people equally for their efforts and abilities to preform)

Comment anticipation
In this paragraph, I anticipate some of the comments that will probably show up and I will answer them in this paragraph.

Comment 1: If you are bored, why don’t you build your character differently? Alternatively, play another profession? Or play another game?

Answer 1: I have tried all builds that is viable for my profession, I always change my traits, gear, weapons, accessories, and utilities to fit the encounter the best way. Anyhow, how would it be more fun or more rewarding to change to another build when you already have the ideal build for the content that is out there? I would consider the question (If you are bored, why don’t you build your character differently?) meaningless. It is so because changing your build is a necessity as a good player. In the end, you do not do it because it is fun. It is like saying: Why don’t you play without traits to make it harder. It is not about that at all and it is stupid. It is about building your character to become strong and conquer challenging content and being equally rewarded for doing so.

Comment 2: Your reply: “If you don’t like the end game, go do something else or play another game”

Answer 2: I will reply to you with “Reply meaningless.” This is about improving the game Arenanet have created. When you express such a reply, it indicates that you are not willing to improve the world, not willing to make it better.

Comment 3: Guild wars 2 is not meant to be a game for hardcore players.

Answer 3: How do you know this to be true? Show me exactly where Arenanet have stated this. In addition, why can’t it be a game where we have one arena for casuals and one arena for hardcore players? No the answer to this last question is not: Because it would be a gear difference. To change gear stats is not my goal.

World Vs World
There are many issues with world vs world. First, we can start with culling. The issue is under maintenance by Arenanet, so there is not much need right now to talk about it, even though it is a big problem that makes wvw less fun. (If you do not know what “Culling” is, culling is when you only load some players and leave many unloaded but still exists in the battle, to say it simply.)

Dependent on others in WvW is an issue.
Another problem with WvW is that you are heavily dependent on others. Nevertheless, I (Kunst – Guardian – Desolation) do manage to conquer castles solo. This includes taking down a wall solo, killing the castle champion solo and taking over the castle solo. This of course takes time and you have to be sneaky. If there was a way to scale castle wall / gate HP accordingly with the players in the area and the lumber needed to create a catapult / trebuchet etc, you as a single player would be able to appreciate WvW much more. You as an individual player would feel more useful. You do not have to follow a zerg train with many players where you do not actually have to pay attention or play to your potential, all you have to do is to follow the shepherd as the sheep you are. This would also make people spread out in the map instead of having a pre-decided route you follow for your karma train.

Essence of the post
The main concern of this post is the end game content for PvE.
The essence does not include,-
- Events in Orr
- WvW
- Structured PvP
- Other events that’s in the world

Main topic clarification
The main topic of this post is end game content that requires skilful play (Already defined what skilful play is) and how Arenanet rips high scale Fractal players off by giving us the same rewards as people on Fractals below 50.

The post has other sub suggestions and I have specified what sub concept is important and what sub concept is not important.

Earlier in this post I mentioned RNG, from that I would also like to go onto legendary precursors. I do believe Arenanet will do something about the accessibility of these items. However, I do not have any specific insights on how this will be executed. I am not going to talk much about this matter because it has a clear reasoning why legendry’s is based on RNG. Because they are intended to be accessible for all kind of people through the Mystic forge. It is not in the first place based on the idea of conquering a challenge. Therefore, it becomes more acceptable. However, I do not like the idea, and I do not accept it as my wish. If it were up to me, I would never have designed it on RNG. However, this is not a big concern of mine and I do not want it to be focused on in this post. (If you do however focus on this in your reply, I will reply to you with; “Legendary – irrelevant.”)

Mystic Forge
I do not wish to talk about the mystic forge rewarding system either because it requires no skillful play to obtain items from it. It is by itself a system that have excluded itself from the foundation of rewarding, it does not deceive, you accept that you might get something good, or you might get something useless, and it requires no effort. (Generally such systems that requires no effort for great gain I do not fancy, but I tolerate the system based on its terms)

Dungeons
I do not have much concern about dungeons, the dungeon rewarding system do not deceive you, and it clearly specify what you get for your effort (You may ask; what do you mean by “deceiving?” By deceiving, I mean that you clearly know what you will gain for before you enter the dungeon; the reward does not deceive you). However, there are a few problems with dungeons that could and will be addressed in upcoming patches. I write this small paragraph about dungeons to express that it is not an important topic, but a topic that have been mentioned.

Fractal difficulty: Before I go into this I first have to consider,-
Question one: Was Fractals intended to go above 50 or was this just weak programming?
Question two: Was it intended for us to reach scale above 50 this fast or in later patches because of agony resistance limitations?

Question one explanation: If we were never intended to go above 50, this whole system is so unbelievably crap. There is no challenge what so ever before scale 50, it is a complete joke. (For the player who think it is of great challenge, you do not know better, because you have not been above 50, or you are just not that good of a player. A third possibility is that you have not found a good group yet. Anyhow, all these examples have one important thing in common; they all point to your lack of knowledge about what truly is challenging.) I do understand and I do acknowledge that what I just said can be interpret or understood as quite rude. However, I do not intend to hide my self behind soft and kind words. In many situations in life, it is better to use such kind and soft words to preserve something / someone and give positive reinforcement. In this case, I do not choose to do so because I find the need to display the reality, the truth as it is, no matter how blunt and horrid it may look.

Fractals should not stop at 50 because of agony resistance limitations, its way to early. You may think right now; why is it too early? It is too early because the difficulty of it is an insult to half-decent gamers. The second reason why it is too early is that you will not get the items you want from it before you reach 50. This results in that you have to repeat this scale repeatedly to get what you want without any progression. Third reason why it should not stop at 50 is that it gives less room for player improvement.

(Go back up and read question two) Question two explanation: If it was intended for us to reach further than fractal 50 in later patches, it is clearly a weak / wrong programming with the Fractal system. In addition, if we were meant to reach further, when were we intended to do so? Without much struggle, we could pass it with the gear / skill level people are at now… This raises a question; how much do they have to increase the difficulty of the fractal system when we already are able to knock it on its behind and drag it after us while we laugh. I do not mean to increase the difficulty before scale 50 or even 60 as it is of now, but maybe after 70. It has to increase in other various ways than only mob HP, I do not think it is correct to decrease the damage the mobs receive because it gives the impression that the players get weaker without actually doing so, mobs damage (instant gibing people with 1 hit is not correct I believe, but abilities that is clearly noticeable should be unforgiveable and kill you in 1 hit.)

That players receive equal reward is one of the main problems with the Fractal reward system. Arenanet spits on the very foundation of the concept “Rewarding.” The more effort you give, the more you should gain. That is the very foundation of rewarding in life. (I do acknowledge that this principle is not present in many important aspects of people’s lives, and that it is not present is not right, it is not just) Arenanets way of rewarding when it comes to character progression is an illusion, it is a lie. (Not talking about getting better stats on gear, hold your horses) I am mostly talking about the accessibility for all people of very different skill levels to get the same look on the gear. This should not be!

That is not the only problem with the fractal reward system either. The whole system is at fault because it is based on RNG.

(Random Number Generation. If you did not know)
The very problem with this system is the endgame RNG (Includes Fractals daily chests). The Fractal skins you can get is, axe skin, sword skin, geatsword skin, scepter skin, torch skin etc… In addition, you cannot do anything with them unless you make a new character, level it to 80 and put it on that character. There is NO WAY you can benefit from this reward on the character where you either already have the skin, or you are not able to use the weapon because of your profession. This results in taking up bag / bank slots that you can use for other means. The same problem occurs with the rings that drops. (I will not repeat the problem again)

You may also never get the weapon skin you want, just because the random generated numbers “do not favor your wishes.”

Solution: Remove all skin drops and ring drops from daily chest. Give materials, tokens, and relics instead in the daily chest. (Token works very much like relics. It is a value you can buy something else with) Put up vendors that sells Fractal weapon skins. (Vendors with Fractal rings is already in its place)

Solution to people who already have Fractal weapon skins they cannot use: Let us exchange them for other weapon skins at a vendor.

In addition we cannot reward players that are on X level (let us say 20) with a Fractal skin weapon, because it should require a higher fractal scale to obtain these weapons. Not every player should be able to get these skins because; then in reality, there is no reward. You should reward people for their efforts and their ability to conquer, not reward them simply because they exist and sleep through a Fractal dungeon.

If you want to reply to this post after you have read it, specify in your post exactly what you comment on, and why you comment on it. Give true and rational reasons for why it is as you say. Be as rational as can be, and really think about what you are replying to and how relevant your words are to what you are commenting on

I do not accept meaningless replies.

Meaningless: Comments that do not have relevance to the subject, comments that is not true, comments that is based on assumption that is at fault. When the assumption is at fault, what you write is inexistent and therefore meaningless.

Rewarding
The main problem with Gw2 is that rewarding is at its core at fault. Yes, it is at fault. All items are reachable for every player regardless their skill level.

Skill level explanation: How knowledgeable a player is about his / others profession and the encounter he / she is about to face. How fast a player reacts, generally, how good a player is able to play and use his / her abilities at the correct time. This explanation is very easy to understand, and very hard to not comprehend, if you do however comment on it for fun, it will be replied back to with “SL – Meaningless”

I will later talk about items from Mystic Forge, but for now, I will talk about items that drops for players in the Fractal system.

Fractal system is at fault – Rewarding
The main problem about rewarding when it comes to the Fractal system is that if you are on scale 30 you can still get the same weapon skins, rares, exotics and materials as you get on scale 70 +. The problem with this is that on higher scale it is more difficult to get through so this should be rewarded accordingly. This is one example that reflects my previous statement, that guild wars 2 rewarding system is at fault, because no matter how good you are of a player, you will not be rewarded more for your efforts than a player that is not that good.

Explanation of a player that is not that good: A player who,-
- Do not adapt to the situation.
- Do not change gear, traits, utilities, weapons and accessories to benefit the encounter.
- Do not react fast to incoming damage or other mechanics.
- Do not follow group rotations (Absorb and reflect fields)
- Do not use ability combinations correctly and who do not look for combofields when in a group.
Sure there are many more criterions could be added, these are just a few important once.

Strange that this isn’t already in the game.

GoldenKnightTim.4390:

This is the first game i have played where i feel like i am not standing in one spot spamming skills 1-8. The game isn’t difficult, but it keeps my mind working as I’m playing. If you really like the game, but don’t find it challenging enough, I suggest posting another thread in the suggestions about any idea you have for more complex play. Also I suggest finding other ways to challenge yourself. Don’t run in the circles in orr. That’s boring and not a challenge at all, but there are other places with challenging events. If you think you are better at the game than all the rest of us casual players, you may find a lot of fun in WvW. There is plenty of army vs army fights, but you can find 1v1 fights also. Especially in the jumping puzzle in the eternal battlegrounds, but you can find people anywhere. If you want people to help you with ideas to make the game better, i suggest starting a new thread where the subject of the thread isn’t how horrible you worded the initial question.

Reeeeally…..?

- Running around in orr (Meaningless because its irrational and untrue)
- If you think you are better at the game than all the rest of us casuals players. (contemptious, and yes ofc I am. Sounds rude, but face reality)
- You may find alot of fun in WvW. (Really…? WvW is broken. No fun at all, especially with culling)

poe lyfe.5879:

op have you lost your mind? ive been reading posts and im not sure what you even want? how are they going to measure skillful play? # of attacks dodged? would kinda limit your build to high dps ones then. you argue with anyone and cant even see your statement AT BEST is vague. do you talk to people in real life like that and then become puzzled when they cant read your mind? can you read other peoples minds?

State your sentence please. Specify what is unclear, specify what is wrong, and give reasons for why it is so.

My answer: This is where it gets EXTREMLY meaningless; everything in this sentence has no point what so ever that is relevant to the topic. First, “Believe me I really don’t want to offend you.” Who cares? Really… Stop protecting your-self and stop lying. You so want to offend me. Secondly, why would that even offend anyone? What offends me is your lie and the facade you try to keep up. Next, you base this on your belief about my lack of appreciation for the creation of the game. When this assumption is at fault, then what you say is meaningless because it simply is untrue. (<—Meaningless.) Again, my appreciation has no relevance to the topic at all, that someone do not have insight in the trouble of programming does not mean it more relevant to the topic and do not change anything. (<— Meaningless)

Next: Chess? Chess only withholds an intrinsic value. If you do however enter tournaments and win, the rewards comes from the competition and not Chess by itself. Therefore, this is yet another half lie from you.

Next up: You write “If you do not like it, leave it” This is a huge issue in the minds of people. In addition, it really fills me with contempt and disgust. You simply imply that things are not changeable to become better and you judge those who tries to make the world better. I would say that is an act from a simple-minded fool who feels he / she needs to protect her / himself.

Your sentence: ” I am not judging anyone.. i just read a lot in the forums and i notice that people often state what they want for the game without thinking or at least giving a suggestion. All they do is complain and that’s a huge difference.”

My Answer: You do a slight contradiction here. You say, “People often state what they want for the game without thinking or at least giving suggestions.” When you state what you want for the game that is a suggestion. However, you do not share (the reason why I write share, is because the person might have a good idea how to do it and just have not shared it. (Understand what it says, not what it do not say) a suggestion, only the field that someone wants to be improved.

Further, you go onto telling me that you think my post is rather meaningless. “All you stated was that my post is meaningless without actually responding to what I said.” I did indeed respond to what you said, and you do not give reasons for saying that you think my respond is meaningless. You provide NO logic to it, no reason.

In the end of your second post you say, “All I did is asking a few questions and it would be great if you could reply instead of calling my post “meaningless.” The first mistake with this sentence is that; I did indeed reply. It would be a lie to say that I did not reply which you are saying. So again, another half lie.

These are the questions you asked in the first post.
1. Question: But hay what do you expect them to do now?
1. Answer: This requires a post, which I will be delivering soon. It will be very long. To get an idea, just look how much I got out from your reply in this post.
2. Have you ever tried to program an Al?
2. Answer: Meaningless. It withholds no relevance to the subject.

Your sentence: “All I did is asking a few questions”
My answer: I would not consider two questions “a few questions,” This is yet another half lie or a misunderstanding of the word “few” The very definition of the word is related to “a small number” However, this is not how the word is used. You either say a couple (which is 2) or you simply say “my two questions”

In this very reply I have reasoned by your post is meaningless and even given you the examples.
Furthermore I gave reasons for other aspects of your post that was, to say it bold, complete bullkitten.

Read it carefully… I am tired of irrational and untruthful thinking that leads to untruthful expressions.

Back to your text:
Your sentence: “ If pve is not hard enough for you go play pvp” here again you reflect upon the idea of “If you do not like it, leave it” What you are saying here is I should leave all pve in this game and go play pvp. I am no hater of pvp. However its way to unorganized and way to dependent on “ Strength in numbers” Its not ideal, though not a huge problem (Refering to world vs world)
Structured pvp is out of the question. We’re talking about PVE, not PVP. This again makes your sentence meaningless. To make this even more clear for you: While I am talking about Fish, you are talking about seaweed. The cat is a metaphor for pve and the seaweed is a metaphor for pvp. It’s entirely two different things and there for should be treated like wise.

Your sentence: “Atleast we have to dodge in this game and watch for our enviroment (environment). Compare (Compared) to other MMO’s. I do not see how this is relevant to the topic. You are comparing MMOs, which is not much part of the topic at all. You say this because you want Gw2 to have a image of being more difficult, but really… It does not make it so. (? Meaning less.)

Your sentence: “Believe me i really don’t want to offend you but i am sick and tired of people leaving completely unrealistic “suggestions” whil they have no idea how incredibly troublesome and unbelievably hard to program, if not impossible they are… What we have now is far superior than compared to other games. If you do not like it, leave and play chess. A game that rewards skill more than anything else…”

Lucas of the Desert.2165:

Tesena.1075:

Lucas of the Desert.2165:

It’s so sad to see people not understand how a forum and how feedback should work. -snap-

-snap- You assume that I take forgranted the struggle with I would say that is a act from a simple minded fool who feels he / she needs to protect her / him self.

I am not judging anyone.. i just read a lot in the forums and i notice that people often state what they want for the game without thinking or at least giving a suggestion. All they do is complain and that’s a huge difference.

If you really do know how hard it is to make it skillful then why aren’t you leaving a suggestion? All people do is complain… and (hate/flame me or not) i rather think that your post right now was meaningless. All you stated was that my post is meaningless without actually responding to what i said.. if the gameplay or the rewards aren’t challenging or good enough for you that’s too bad but how about givin a SUGGESTION? What would you like to have implemented? What could they do to improve what’s wrong with the current state of the game(in your opinion)? All i did is asking a few questions and it would be great if you could reply instead of calling my post “meaningless”

I will try to inform you as easily I can, piece by piece why your post is meaningless, I will give reasons for this.

Mistake nr1: “It’s sad to see that people…” Answer: You do not find it sad, you find it annoying. Stop hiding your self behind empathic words. Mistake nr 2: “I don’t want to criticize you but hay…” Who actually cares about it. If you do want to criticize and are right in doing so do so. (You can ONLY know if it is right by examining it through rationality)

Question one from you: “How should you accomplish skillful play??” YOU accomplish it by getting pass tough challenges, what I believe you are really asking is that “How should Arenanet accomplish to make encounters that reflect the need of skillful play”

Challenges until now that Anet have made is simply just a joke. Why is it a joke? First of all the global rewarding they have. They give EVERYONE the same no matter what (in this case) fractal scale you are at. It is VERY easy to get past even scales like 70, which was in actually never intended for people to get past. A weaker group may get past it after a few wips but still you get past it eventually. This should never have been.

Example: If you wipe on a boss that spawns adds (Dredge boss) These adds should reset so you have to do the whole encounter again because that’s the legit way. You should not be able to kill some mobs, wipe, and have fewer mobs to kill. My point is: Encounters should reset.

Olba.5376:

• What is defined as skillful play?
• How does skillful play differ from regular play?
• How do you quantitatively measure “skillfulness”?
• What makes “skillful play” a desirable playstyle?
• Should the developer really advocate a specific style of play?

Read other replies I have written to people. If you do still want an answer to your questions I will give you this when I come back from work.

Lucas of the Desert.2165:

It’s so sad to see people not understand how a forum and how feedback should work. I don’t want to criticise you but hey what do you expect them to do now? How should you accomplish “skillful play”?? If PvE is not hard enough for you then go play PvP. Have you ever tried to program an AI? At least we have to dodge in this game and watch for our enviroment. Compare it to other MMOs.
Believe me i really don’t want to offend you but i am sick and tired of people leaving completely unrealistic “suggestions” whil they have no idea how incredibly troublesome and unbelievably hard to program, if not impossible they are… What we have now is far superior than compared to other games. If you don’t like it leave and play chess. A game that rewards skill more than anything else..

Pretty much everything you say is meaningless.. You base alot on an assumption that I do not know how hard it is to make a game like this. That I do not appreciate the work. Right there is your first mistake, and everything in your post that includes this is meaningless because it simply takes a view point from a position that is a lie.
(If you do not understand what I mean by this: You assume that I take forgranted the struggle with making an AI, and use that as an excuse to make your post. Your assumption is wrong, therefor your post meaningless)

Secondly; You write “If you do not like it, leave it” This is a huge issue in the minds of people. And it really fills me with contempt and digust. You simply imply that things are not changeable to become better and you judge those who tries to make the world better. I would say that is a act from a simple minded fool who feels he / she needs to protect her / him self.

jwaz.1908:

Have you tried high level fractals? They are both rewarding, and require a lot of skill to accomplish. Dungeons in general support skillful team play, but if your looking for solo PvE skill, don’t wait around, this is an MMO after all.

Yes, I have tried high scale fractals, I am on scale 75.. There are just few groups in the world who are at this high scale. Before I quit the game I will be 79, I know people who are 80 and it isnt possible to do even number fractals above 50 cause of the Jade Maw agony block they put into the game on the latest patch.

No, fractals is not rewarding enough. When you get the same amount of rares / exotics on scale 20 – 30 that you do on 70 thats a total joke and ripp off. When you are able to get fractal skins on 20 and you do the same on 70, same thing, total ripp off and thats a huge issue with the game.

Anet rewards EVERY player no matter how skillful they are with the same rewards. For my struggle on higher than 70 scale I get all the same items as a player who is on scale 20.

Rewarding also means: That you DONT REWARD people. If you believe in everything, you do actually not believe in nothing. If you reward everyone the same, is that actually a reward? No, far from it, and some would even call it an illusion.

uknortherner.2670:

At no point do you offer up a suggestion as to what skillful play is. We’re not mindreaders, though we probably can spell “replies”.

Also:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/How-This-Sub-Forum-Works/first#post74613

“Please note that you should not expect a personalized, individual response to your suggestions, due to the massive volume of posts that the Suggestions sub-forum will generate.”

So, why you’re expecting ANet to personally reply to your thread is anyone’s guess.

I do not define what skilful play is, that is true, and also the point. The post was not meant to be big, I threw the question out there to:
1: Get a written reaction from people.
2: There is no one yet that have focused on the matter of the “post” you are way to concerned about the volum of the post and NOT its message. Try to focus on what it says, not what it does not say.

However I will probably make a long post about this issue very soon, atleast before I quit this game because of lack of challenge and reward to the skillful player. Fractals was “tolerateable” what I mean by that is: Fractals was a ok challenge, but by repeating things all the time without much reward, even if you went over 70 you didnt get more rewards than those who did fractals on scale 26.

Now when they have even removed the possibility to go over 50 (I am 75) they completely destroyed it… This is yet another subject the matter is about.

Fyrebrand.4859:

It’s being patched in tomorrow.

But seriously, do you expect an answer to this?

I do. (and I could stop there with the answer.)

But really.. Sometimes you don’t need much more if the question is simple and direct.
(Read other replys I have given to people)

TheDaiBish.9735:

Because anyone reading this post can put it into context…

You might want to go into a bit more depth as to what you consider ‘skillful play’.

The whole point was to make it short, it was meant to make a small, yet direct “impact” if you will with a simple question. (But who actually listens….) I could of course have written a long post about this issue, but I believe many others have done this aswell, however, that is not an excuse for me not to.

What I generally want with this little sentence is to state that Arenanet is strangling their own game, there after shooting it with several bullets into tiny pieces. They have the possebility to make the best MMO there is, with their technology and their designer team they can create great content, but up until now there really is no system at all that rewards skillful pve play. Their world looks amazing, its mechanics is completey and utterly crap. I have alot more to say about the subject, but it seems that they will never reward the very amazing and skilful player. You or others might have other questions and I could give you a very long post about this. But who would even actually care… Anet won’t change their philosophy.. (Include the casual, exclude the hardcore)

So… Arenanet, when are you starting to reward skillful play?

(Kunst – Guardian – Desolation, on the edge of quitting)

hithlain.4385:

I agree, I doubt many guardians use this skill to really retreat ^^ Hey a guardian never flees, a guardian dies where he is…

Perhaps the best way to do this, but I doubt it is doable, is to shout “retreat” if you’re going away from monsters, “charge” if you’re going to the enemy, and “be ready” if you’re not moving, so a way to have the vocal change depending on the situation…

Hehe so true, a guardian never flees! He dies where he stands! ^^

danbuter.2314:

If I make a Hammer Guardian, which stat should I be looking for on my hammer? Toughness, Condition, or Power?

Never use condition damage on a guardian. It’s really weak.

runeblade.7514:

If a player reaches level 65, there is no need to check for skill.

This is not entirely true. I do know of people who are above 70 fractal scale who I would not consider skilled enough. It is very possible to sit on other peoples shoulders and sing your way into the top.

Patryk.4172:

Your group having hard times I noticed, you’ve been searching 1 player at 61 and now you lost another member from the group at 70ties?
Greetings from l74 fractaler.

We did have an issue at a earlier stage, however we did fix the problem at that time and the issue has come back to us once more.

Hello, this post is mainly for fractal players above scale 65 (Eu, We are on scale 71)

My fractal group is in need for a fifth fractal player. We’re a very skillful group with alot of healing and tanking capabilities.

We use
1 Guardian
3 Elementalists
(Looking for last player)

Currently we do our runs quite smooth and we’re communicating well on TeamSpeak.
We do have a preferance for a skillful thief but are willing to test other professions.

Our Requirement
- Use Teamspeak
- Control your own playing time
- Play on Europe
- You are skillful
- You are on or above fractal 65 (We are 71)
- Rationality
- Able to play more than 1 weaponset (Defined as: 1/1 <- one)

Send me a ingame whisper or a ingame mail and we’ll have a chat.

Kunst…

Hello, this post is mainly for fractal players above scale 65 (Eu, We are on scale 71)

My fractal group is in need for a fifth fractal player. We’re a very skillful group with alot of healing and tanking capabilities.

We use
1 Guardian
3 Elementalists
(Looking for last player)

Currently we do our runs quite smooth and we’re communicating well on TeamSpeak.
We do have a preferance for a skillful thief but are willing to test other professions.

Our Requirement
- Use Teamspeak
- Control your own playing time
- Play on Europe
- You are skillful
- You are on or above fractal 65 (We are 71)
- Rationality
- Able to play more than 1 weaponset (Defined as: 1/1 <— one)

Send me a ingame whisper or a ingame mail and we’ll have a chat.

Kunst…

Hello, this post is mainly for fractal players above scale 65 (Eu, We are on scale 71)

My fractal group is in need for a fifth fractal player. We’re a very skillful group with alot of healing and tanking capabilities.

We use
1 Guardian
3 Elementalists
(Looking for last player)

Currently we do our runs quite smooth and we’re communicating well on TeamSpeak.
We do have a preferance for a skillful thief but are willing to test other professions.

Our Requirement
- Use Teamspeak
- Control your own playing time
- Play on Europe
- You are skillful
- You are on or above fractal 65 (We are 71)
- Rationality
- Able to play more than 1 weaponset (Defined as: 1/1 <— one)

Send me a ingame whisper or a ingame mail and we’ll have a chat.

Kunst…

Hello, this post is mainly for fractal players above scale 65 (Eu, We are on scale 71)

My fractal group is in need for a fifth fractal player. We’re a very skillful group with alot of healing and tanking capabilities.

We use
1 Guardian
3 Elementalists
(Looking for last player)

Currently we do our runs quite smooth and we’re communicating well on TeamSpeak.
We do have a preferance for a skillful thief but are willing to test other professions.

Our Requirement
- Use Teamspeak
- Control your own playing time
- Play on Europe
- You are skillful
- You are on or above fractal 65 (We are 71)
- Rationality
- Able to play more than 1 weaponset (Defined as: 1/1 <— one)

Send me a ingame whisper or a ingame mail and we’ll have a chat.

Kunst…

Waraxx.4286:

Tesena.1075:

Hay Waraxx

As you said in your reply " or maybe I am missing something?" Yes, what you are missing is that above fractal 50 its not possible to survive the agony in any way, we have had previous methods to surpass the agony from 47 – 50 but above there you will die instantly, now here is the clue: When you run back to Jade Maw and have not survived the agony he previously used, he will once again insta kill you with agony once you jump over to his area. In order to prevent getting hit by agony again you have to revive inside his area.

About your build, I’ll try to get a response from the members and come back to you =)

i see. then i guess there is no way around it. how do you do it? you leave one cristall by the side where you die and then 1 pick it up and start ressing every1?(without using the cristal ofc. only keeping it as a shield)
now, idk but do the agony hit over the entire map? or is it only the jade maw area. if that is the case couldn’t you let one of you guys stay and die. and the rest go back to checkpoint by falling. thus 1 of you die and 4 survive. or do the agony hit you as you return to the area aswell?

ty very much, :P

The only way to do it as of now is to either ress a person to 99.9% HP then get agony and ress him at a specific time so he wont get agony. The other way is to revive with orbs. No way around it, it can’t be done any other way. (As we know so far)

Sativo.9754:

Tesena.1075:

Yes, what you are missing is that above fractal 50 its not possible to survive the agony in any way, we have had previous methods to surpass the agony from 47 – 50 but above there you will die instantly

I’ve heard of one method that involves one person dying then being res’d to 99% hp. Once the agony kicks in 2-3 ppl try to res him b4 dying and it supposedly prevents him being hit by agony. I tried once but res’d too soon and haven’t tried since.

Yes this method is possible, its simple but very hard to pull off =)

Waraxx.4286:

using revive orbs for fractals isn’t exploiting. you dont gain an unfair advantage other then u res… i mean i don’t really get it why people uses them in the fractal boss. if you wipe from the agony just ( witch you will) just re-spawn at last checkpoint. or maybe i’m missing something? decpite. they’ve had multiple patches to be able to fix this “exploit” most recently today when the 4jan patch went live. also they are much quicker to respond to exploits. usually its within 24h from the moment they found out about the exploit.
and if you don’t think that’s proof enough, please go ahead and use your common sense . it’s a revive orb. used for reviving in useful pve situations.

anyway. OT
i’d love to join. but. i’m only frac lvl 15 ( i started last week) and im a elementalist … so i wouldt bring to much to the table anyway.
but good luck finding a member. cause i think you will kinda need it. there isn’t alot of ppl out there playing 50+ that doesn’t already have a group.

however. i’m looking to rank up in fractals. so all help i can get would be greatly appreciated. could you ask 1 of your elementalist to take a look at this build http://en.gw2codex.com/build/22808-high-fotm-dungeon-build
it would be awsome. he/she doesn’t have to read it all. just look on the build if it could work on higher fractals or not. i mean u guys have experience and i can only go from things i think will work.

thnx in advance. and GL

Hay Waraxx

As you said in your reply " or maybe I am missing something?" Yes, what you are missing is that above fractal 50 its not possible to survive the agony in any way, we have had previous methods to surpass the agony from 47 – 50 but above there you will die instantly, now here is the clue: When you run back to Jade Maw and have not survived the agony he previously used, he will once again insta kill you with agony once you jump over to his area. In order to prevent getting hit by agony again you have to revive inside his area.

About your build, I’ll try to get a response from the members and come back to you =)

BaconCatTheGreasy.9542:

Guys, don’t you realise that using revive orbs is clearly an exploit? SHAME ON YOU!

Hehe ye, I am wondering about that too, but it doesnt make sense that using a gem store item for its purpose is an exploit, we’ll have to wait and see for confirmation from Anet ^^

Dear fractaler (Eu), our group is in need of one more member that is close to scale 61 on fractals. We have a great group with skilled people and good personalities, we’re also using TeamSpeak. Its not required that you talk on teamspeak, but it is required that you listen while doing your own stuff like listening to music or what you prefere.

The setup we are using is: We’re playing on Eu
Guardian: Tank / healer (Kunst)
Elementalist: Healer / dps
Elementalist: Healer / dps
Elementalist: Healer / dps

We have a very good setup here with tons of healing and survivability which is necessary for such high scale content. The ideal profession we are looking for is a mesmer but if you are playing another profession thats fine, the criterion is that you have to be around scale 61. <——

Whisper me Kunst or send me an ingame mail

If you want to watch some of our videos on youtube related to gw2 and fractal content, follow these links:
Kunst: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiWWkwM7HIQ (Guardian solo 2 bosses Arah)
Kunst: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vQZyILWlO4 (Dredge last boss scale 55)
(Elementalist) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28914-WuqXw (Grawl fractal scale 54)

Kaizer.7135:

What? But I transmuted my Berserker set with my Order of Whispers set, I kept the stats but changed the appearance to what I wanted. Don’t know what you’re talking about?

Lets put it like this. If you were a guardian / warrior / elementalist and you wanted a healing set or a more tanky set, and you want the looks of the order of whispers set on that, what do you have to do in order to keep both sets?

You can’t transmute your dps set because then you would lose the stats, so you’ll have to buy the whole set again and apply the look on that onto the more supporty gear set.

Get it? Ain’t that hard to comprehend. Its all about the blueprint, that you save your sets so you can use them on other items later.

This is a troll right?

I can’t really comprehend why some people want mounts. It did World Of Warcaft no good at all, especially with the flying mounts, totally destroyed the game, and Blizzard have stated that they regret using mounts.

Secondly, mounts in gw2 would stand in opposition to the porting system.
IF Gw2 was going to get a mount system the only system that would fit (imo) would be the same system they used in Dark Age of Camelot, where you couldn’t control the mount your self, it was set to run from A to B and you could jump of whenever you wanted, and the mount would just continue its rout without you.

This is not one of the most important features that guild wars 2 needs right NOW, but its a good system for changing your gear appearance. I believe it has been mentioned before but I would like to mention it again.

As we know, the transmutation system in gw2 isn’t that good. For example, if you have 1 set of gear with damage stats, you’ve done dungeons to get this gear because you think it looks awesome. Now, you would also like to have this appearance on another gear which you have crafted (lets say healing gear or tank) You cant get the appearance on that gear because if you do so, you’ll have remove the damage stats.

A good system for this was to have a transmutation stone that SAVES your gear appearance as a blueprint, so you can go back to that gear appearance if you want it later and one transmutation stone that CHANGES your gear appearance.

What do you guys think? (Rational thinking please)

Shootsfoot.9276:

Xaximbo.2763:

i agree, i am hell bored. This game needs 10 person raids with real challenging content, you have the guild to chat mainly guilds should be made in order to advance in the PvE content or to compete in PvP.

Right now all the exploration modes can be done with randoms, ungeared randoms. We need at least 2-3 raids and a new raid every 3 months or so to keep this entertaining. I seriously doubt i buy a new expansion set if by 2 weeks i will be bored again.

What is worse is the difficulty of this game is not well oriented, take Arah for example. Is a wipe fest but you cant control it you’ll be dieing repeteadily unavoidably , resurrecting and zerging again. Same goes for boss fights, very few bosses need an strategie 90% of times is tank + spank and ocasionally using the evade.

Copy wow PvE without tanks and healers and make it really challenging then you’ll have a good pve.

Or you could just go play WoW?

Honest to God, you people and your superiority complexes thinking because YOU don’t like how a game is, it should change.

Do you go to an Italian restaurant and whine like little girls because you can’t get Sushi?

Just go. We get it. You don’t like the game.

Find another.

You are completely off the mark. Even your starting way of thinking is wrong, and the stupidity is seriously contemptious. Raids will make the game better, its not about if you want to raid, then you can go play another game.. Its about IMPROVING this game, to enhance gamers experience.

I would really like to see raids, to see the guild feature been activly used (After all it is Guild Wars) I would like to see people come together and be a part of something bigger, something organized, something rewarding and fun. (The gear reward does not have to be of very much greater stats than what already exists)

Stop the wrong focusing please, its not about catching his lie about having it all after 70 hours.

Life lesson: “Try to find the essential in every argument / discussion, and you have a good view point”

Now, on to the real topic. It is not enough to do in Gw2, that is final.. It is so much to do when you are leveling. The scinery is incredible beautiful and the game is just breathtaking. But what does it matter when you’ve done all this (which so many people have)

There is NO endgame content, what so ever. Nothing. Sure there are dungeons, which is great until you have gotten everything you need. Dungeons alone aint enough, not by far.

Now, why should we have raids? Think…. What is the essential of having raids? what captures the essence of a raid? Raids make people come together to have fun, to fight challenges to become a better player. Raids makes you feel that you’re a part of something bigger, and it improves the guild feature by far.

Why would anyone say no to such a game improvment? Please come with a rational answer.

Comments_____________
- Gear is not an issue, it does not have to be improved by much.
- Not being able to join a guild and raid is a stupid excuse for not having raids at all.
- The Casual player does not NEED to play raids because the difference won’t be that big. Why would the casual player even care, he / she is casual..

It seems like people are completely missing the point, its like WAY WAY off the map. Some people think “If you want to raid, go play WoW, or SWTOR” you name it.
Its even with this thought you begin to move toward the wrong direction. In order to make the game better, raids should be implemented. Its not about "if you want to do this, and if you want to do that, go do that and go do this, its about having everything on the same plate to enhance overall gaming experience.

Secondly, people are concerned with the overall playstyle of raids and how it will be, they think that the raiding mobs will just chase randomly, but no no, here is where you haven’t done your reseach. Mobs and bosses in Gw2 DOES HAVE A AGRRO SYSTEM.

Aggro: The player that has most damage, and closest to the mob / boss will have the aggro, it also have something to do with toughness. (in the sense that mobs and bosses seems to go toward people with HIGH toughness.)

Can anyone please give me a rational answer why raids will be bad to the game?

- Gear is not an issue, there are simple and effective systems for that.
- Worrying about not being able to join a guild and raid is not an issue at all and should not prevent raids from existing. (would be seriously stupid)
- Casual players do not HAVE to raid, because the difference between a raider and a non raider won’t be that big.

Mssg.7804:

- Add target to target option (good for PvP and PvE).
- I want to see HP of mobs as numbers eq mob has 1987hp/1987 and also in %.
- Option to see own name and HP bar
- Option to customize own UI
- Max camera distance is to close to character
- End game content… a lot of people get bored already after they hit max lvl. We need RAIDS with strategy and not zerking another dragon.
- Lower ques to WvWvW, idk how but this problem is at the same lvl as late loading of characters on WvWvW.
- DUELS! I dont even understand why there is no duel option!!
- Inspect players!
- Preview build of another player

Many yes’

Champions are not hard to kill solo at all, it only takes time. People need to realize that they may need to learn to play better. If it was going to be made a change to the champions is to lower their HP, not damage, not toughness, no mechanics, only the HP.

I am 95% positive that I can defeat about ANY champion out there, except the Eye of Zaitan in Orr.