Guild Wars 2

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

@ Tomas Valheru

I think the funny thing here is that you think Backstabs are “reliable” but you can’t even hit a non-moving target with Whirlwind.

I recommend everyone here actually try PvPing with classes other than the warrior and see how “overpowered” those classes that don’t have a win button feel to them. Either that, or try snaring a target before using HB instead of doing it randomly and getting mad when people move away.

In all fairness, pretty much every board thinks their class is underpowered and that all other classes are overpowered. At least the thieves have a valid counter to all the whining because of the irony of the class with a spammable 30k burst complaining about their 45s cd 10k burst.

So yeah, thanks for that.

I don’t think our class is underpowered. Our class is ok right now, it’s why we haven’t really been touched. There are some bugs and things that would make more builds viable for us but they aren’t nearly as bad as other classes.

It’s unfortunate that you keep writing. Like I said, repeating the same thing over and over in every post won’t make what you are saying true/correct. One day you will get it, its ok!

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

@ Sami
Warriors do waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more damage than thieves do. Thief DPS is in fact downright terrible. Even built as a glass cannon DPS thieves deal extremely poor damage. The only saving grace is that dagger auto-attack is one of the hardest-hitting auto-attacks in the game, but that doesn’t really make up for their total lack of DPS skills otherwise.

On the other hand, Hundred Blades is the highest DPS in the game. Not the highest DPS skill, but literally the highest DPS. The single skill alone outclasses the DPS output on entire classes. Add in the damage from the auto-attack, which is fairly high as well, and warrior GS DPS is miles above any else any other class can put out.

Even in PvP, a single hit from Hundred Blades is already about 2-3k. If a warrior bolas/rushes you and starts swinging, you can take as much as 10k in the amount of time it takes to stun break and roll away. Then the warrior can just Eviscerate you or just do whatever for 6 seconds and HB again.

Look person. Repeating yourself over and over and over again isn’t going to make what you say right. If you are talking about a PvE aspect, where you are fighting a mob that doesn’t kite, CC, or hit you hard enough that you can just use HB on recharge then yea, maybe it is an EPIC DPS, if you can even call it that. This is for PvE only though, and under the condition that you are going to hit a mob on recharge with the skill and not die or have to move.

If you are talking about PvP and you are fighting a person that has fingers, TOES even, and can press the letter V (or what ever letter dodge is hotkeyed to) if you use Bulls or Hold W,A,S,D for 3 seconds total without having bulls, then you will be doing CRAP damage with HB. If you are far enough from HB then you are far enough away after for the GS’s autoattacks. So congratz, I hit you for 2k my first hit, missed every other hit, if you move right and left afterwards and stay at distance I have a 50/50 chance of hitting you with whirlwind, and you have been hitting me the whole time or have been doing something more productive.

Thieves can move reliably apply their damage because in MOST situations you will always see the warrior coming even while fighting against multiple enemies as opposed to the thief. If you think thiefs burst is garbage then you sir/ma’am have not played GW2. At all. Since release. That or you bought the gem store Boxing Gloves and have been using that to PvP your way out of a wet paper bag and still haven’t won. Please stop repeating yourself. It’s irritating to read.

I think the OP honestly made this to troll the warrior forums. Lets be honest.

Nautika.5376:

The silence confirms it Warriors are in fact NOT that bad at PvP and people know it.

Haha, I actually laughed at this message. You post something less than an hour ago and expect a million replies refuting your original post as if everyone is on the forums at all times.

KyleQuest.4639:

I’d don’t believe physical aspects are factored into the physics of the character. As in, a Norn should by nature of it’s size, conditioning, and muscle mass have a greater reach, greater jumping distances, and faster terrain speed coverage. But, none of that appears to take place. This was in fact truly disappointing to me. Honestly, if a Norn were to kick a lil Asura, they should be able to punt that sucker 2400 units easily!!! Am I right or what??

In the end, it seems we Norn just ended up being visibly huge targets on the battle field to spot and attack. All the downsides and none or the benefits…. Heck, combat in close quarters, you can’t even get the camera angle down to see a lil critter or Asura nipping at your heals. Rotation speed is abysmal to say the least too…. #NornNerfed

This may be true in a more realistic situation but in game it doesn’t fit because then everyone would be rolling a norn warrior due to their size affecting their speed and damage output. People will alwasy min/max, expecially people who are serious about competition. All races run the same speed making Norn look like they run slow because they would be at an advantage if they were faster. Anet doesn’t want the burden of attempting to balance something like that. People would cry harder than they already do about balance.

Once you get used to camera angles and a lot of fighting you will see what you need to see out of the asura. It takes a little longer to get used to stuff like that but experience goes a long way

Kendu Kuzal.3985:

Or sponge damage and provide boons, condition removal and heals to those around you?

That would not require him to attack from the sides to flank enemies and take less damage. He would be better off nearer the middle and getting the main pack heals and buffs, stepping forward to get tab targetted and stepping back to have someone else tab targetted if that were the case.

stefanplc.5234:

this is turning into a conversation that’s kind of beating it around the bush… i want to play melee in WvWvW and I cant due to the way the system is designed.. i can play melee without a problem in sPvP because the fights are smaller and the warrior defense mechanism is appropriate for that… i don’t think the current system which relies mostly on reducing a % of the damage you take works however in WvWvW and I feel that it should offer new traits that are particularly more suitable for this activity

300 vitality and being able to heal with my shouts for roughly 5-6k every 20 seconds is great for small fights but it makes no difference in WvWvW
300 toughness and some extra healing paired with a little extra toughness and slightly shorter CDs on defense abilities are great for small fights, because you take fewer hits during the time you wait for the CD to come back… they don’t make a difference in WvWvW because you’ll be dead before the CD comes back

i want other options for defense traits that are more WvWvW friendly.. if I’m to kitten my damage to be more durable in WvWvW make it worth the investment… right now you might as well go full glass cannon, you wont notice a difference in survivability.. what’s +/-2 seconds before you die

I gave a few examples above through out the posts and I’ll give them again
- 1 second of blocking after you dodge.. should have the same effect if you’re fighting 1 person or are in WvWvW.. as opposed to having you block the next incoming attack after you dodge which is great in small fights but makes no difference in large fights
- change the mace blocking ability to work like shield stance, blocking all attacks for a period of time and not just the next attack since that doesn’t make a difference in WvWvW
- you are instantly healed for the damage you take in the next 3 seconds and you can’t die while you still have this buff on a short CD.. so people don’t just focus you down like it’s nothing
- ignore pain CD is now 30 seconds but you do 50% less damage during it

and so forth.. the type of defensive abilities that scale to larger fights and aren’t appropriate just for 1v1s or 2v2s… the current defensive system works only during small fights and does not scale to larger fights the way the thieves and mesmer vanish or clones do or guardian blocks

I want to play melee, the majority of the warrior weapons are melee and I can’t because I die in seconds. I don’t want to be forced to a rifle or bow if I want to be valuable.

If that is what you truly believe then it seems that we may have to agree to disagree. This topic has been part of the forums for a very long time. When the betas were out Anet used gw2guru forums to get feedback on the gameplay. It was seen in abundance there too. Anet doesn’t seem to agree, at least for right now, that there is an issue. Maybe they will change their minds, maybe nerfs to other classes will provide enough benefits to make it work for us, maybe they may tweak traits or change them for us, but if not then you may need to find a work around until that time if it even happens.

As I said, I think we are Ok. I would love to have Amazing capabilities. Hell, Great capabilities in the melee department in Zerg vs Zerg would be cool too. But I’m fine with just Ok. Range can be looked at, tweaked even, or melee could be buffed and I would be cool with it too.

stefanplc.5234:

I specifically mentioned that I don’t expect to go first into a zerg and hope to do something meaningful. I explained a scenario where in a balanced 10 vs 10 fight, I would try and come through the side or a spot that’s more appropriate where I wouldn’t have the entire zerg switch to me but only 2 or 3 people. I would expect to be able to do something meaningful by approaching a strategy like that. If I was to play a thief or a mesmer I could probably go in, score a kill and then get out just fine. If I was a guardian I could probably hold my ground versus them, without actually killing any of them for quite some time and give my group an advantage by keeping 3 enemies busy. If I do the same thing as a warrior and go vs 2-3 opponents that are of equivalent gear and skill I just die within the first 10 seconds right after Ignore Pain and Shield Stance ends. If I do however happen to make it out I can’t go back in for another 1.5 minutes and I didn’t really accomplish anything for the duration that I was there.

My point is that the current warrior defense design isn’t meant for large fights, it’s designed for smaller fights where it performs well such as in sPvP where most of the time you see a 2v2 or a 3v3. Our defense is based on mostly reducing the % of damage we take which isn’t that high so we’re not an unstoppable force in a 1v1. This system however fails when you have 2 or 3 enemies attacking you.

To be able to actually play melee right now in WvWvW you have to be part of a pretty decent team that you play with very often making it available only to “hardcore players”. Other professions don’t need to do that and they can perform our role much better since they don’t need babysitting. If I don’t have 20 hours per week to dish into WvWvW then I guess Rifle/Bow it is for me but then again, other ranged professions are much better at range than I am also.

While the melee warrior performs very well in sPvP with the current design and traits, I feel that there should be new options available that would be aimed at WvWvW. While healing shouts does really well in a 2v2 or 3v3 or dungeons, we could have a new shout as the 30 pts Tactics reward that doubles your toughness for x seconds but reduces your damage by x% and so forth. Instead of reducing the damage you take by a certain percentage or healing you for small amounts which are only significant in small fights, lets have a few options for larger fights also. A short CD ability that heals you for the amount of damage you take in the next 3-4 seconds could be another idea.

I talked about this for so long I’m starting to lose my train of thoughts, sorry lol.

The problem is that in a pure defensive build you wouldn’t be doing anything meaningful by going into the side and attacking 2 or 3 people. If you wanted to do something meaningful in that aspect, going in as a glass cannon HB warrior, blowing your CD’s and downing 1 or 2 people then weapon swapping to shield stance and running away would be a better option. going the full defensive spec is so that you can be a sponge for a while while you move through the zerg. You aren’t meant to sponge damage for a long period of time.

Other classes can, Thieves can avoid it and dish out tons of damage but they are slowly seeing nerfs. Mesmers will probably get a nerf bat soon enough as well. Warriors, functioning along the full spectrum of the game, in all aspects, are ok as is in my opinion

stefanplc.5234:

In all fairness while impressive the video is very miss-leading. The warrior in the video is part of an organized party, decked in gear and constantly has regeneration and protection on himself while if you check the rest of the battle field it’s full of green arrows from sub lvl 80 enemies. If you check the video I posted Matale 7, I can take on 3 or 4 of those by myself and kill them all in a pretty tankish build and gear. Sub 80s are not that difficult, I don’t know how many of you saw Mazidra’s mesmer WvWvW video. As a mesmer Mazidra fights up to 5 or 6 opponents at the same time and wins, however they’re all sub 80s: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=882KeHO9btw

Being lvl 80 and having the top gear makes a huuuge difference. If the warrior in the video was to fight equivalent opponents to his party, he’d be getting smashed pretty fast and I can tell you that from experience. If you take a look at the toughness math above you’ll see that going from 1750 toughness to 2350 you’re gaining around 50% damage reduction which is a pretty big deal and the same translate to other stats also.

Bottom line again, while it looks impressive it’s not an accurate depiction of warrior survivability in WvWvW.

Also, video showed a reality that exists in the zerg. Generally, better geared people are up front fighting. They understand that they can take more hits and dish out more damage trying to get as many tags as possible to get as much experience or points as possible. People in the back of a zerg or hovering in the middle probably don’t have great gear, aren’t lvl 80, and understand through experience that if they are in the front they will get roflstomped. People don’t like dying so they act and move in ways that prolong their life as well as in a way that they feel like they contributed.

When he pushed through the zerg, he probably went through a wall of better geared people, but as he got to the back you start seeing enemies who are less geared, and probably not max level. I doubt everyone he fought was inferior to him. After the zerg was split it was basically a free for all where everyone in the enemy team was scattered so you see mixtures of lower lvls and higher lvls.

That’s just my opinion.

stefanplc.5234:

In all fairness while impressive the video is very miss-leading. The warrior in the video is part of an organized party, decked in gear and constantly has regeneration and protection on himself while if you check the rest of the battle field it’s full of green arrows from sub lvl 80 enemies. If you check the video I posted Matale 7, I can take on 3 or 4 of those by myself and kill them all in a pretty tankish build and gear. Sub 80s are not that difficult, I don’t know how many of you saw Mazidra’s mesmer WvWvW video. As a mesmer Mazidra fights up to 5 or 6 opponents at the same time and wins, however they’re all sub 80s: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=882KeHO9btw

Being lvl 80 and having the top gear makes a huuuge difference. If the warrior in the video was to fight equivalent opponents to his party, he’d be getting smashed pretty fast and I can tell you that from experience. If you take a look at the toughness math above you’ll see that going from 1750 toughness to 2350 you’re gaining around 50% damage reduction which is a pretty big deal and the same translate to other stats also.

Bottom line again, while it looks impressive it’s not an accurate depiction of warrior survivability in WvWvW.

I think the video proves a very valid point that another poster in the beginning of the thread mentioned to you. You as well as PanH refuted a very nice video and Proof that if you want to succeed in any real way in melee for WvWvW you need a group. You can’t do it alone no matter which way you want to put it.

I understand your complaints. Some ranged classes can do very well at ranged, and still do very well in melee range while still using their ranged weapons. This is something that needs to be looked at for sure, but ranged supports range in this game. If you have a TON of ranged characters firing off arrows/projectiles/spells, and you run in as the ONLY melee then, yes, you will most likely melt into nothing just like in a real world battlefield application. Even if, in the real world, there existed magic in the way it exists in GW2 you would be obliterated in that scenario.

If you have a wall of melee, guardians and warriors, who are not afraid to push into the enemy lines then you would have a much better result. You would get protection, heals and regeneration from warrior shouts, guardian rolls, guardian passives, guardian heals, etc. You would also take less focus fire because now tab targetting is split between 5 or more people rather than 1 or 2. Ranged have synergy with each other in WvWvW because they all stay at range. If you want melee to have syngery and be affective in the battlefield then you need a bunch of melee to go into the front. That would require you to form groups of melee and groups of range and be organized.

I don’t think we NEED to be able to survive for a long period of time versus 5 people with what we have. We can already be immune for around 10-15 secs, thats more than enough time for other melee to come into the front and take the pressure off of you. I don’t think we should be able to run into a storm of projectiles and not die after some time. If we get a protection buff or regen or a lot of AoE heals from everyone around us, then our defense scales very well. Ranged may need toning down, who knows. What I do know is that the video showed what is realistically the best way to play melee range which is as a group pushing through the enemy line.

He didn’t push to the front and stay at the front. He pushed through with the entire team and basically split the entire enemy zerg in half, who by then tab targetted to someone closer to them because he already ran passed the entire zerg immune to all damage. That is great use of tactics and he played the tank roll perfectly. You split the zerg and stay grouped so all AoE heals/buffs hit your team, while all of their aoe buffs become scattered and split. It’s why it worked.

You can be 1 person in a disorganized zerg and die/fend for yourself or you can be 1 unit of organized zerg and win. That is WvWvW and I don’t think skill changes should be required unless it destroys balance completely. Our defensive traits are ok, not AMAZING like guardians, but they are ok and work when used in the correct situations. I would like amazing, but in fantasy, there are a lot more soldiers on the battlefield than there are other classes, and soldiers (warriors) are going to die far more often so I can live with Ok.

I found a Youtube video of a Warrior running Mace and Shield + sword and Warrhorn. The person playing doesn’t really use all the maces skills and could just be switched to sword. It could give you an idea of just how much we damage we can take, Especially in a WvWvW setting. If you want I can post it or send you the link.

PanH.1957:

@Ragnar : Have you looked in the other classes bugs ?
Necro got major ones, and it’s normal they’re debugged first. But else, apart from Ranger and Ele that looks to have a bit more issues, there’s no game breaking bug as you’re saying. Please look into before saying such things.

Hey dude chill out. You are way too over the top. They will fix it when it gets fixed. If you want to cry for half an hour, do it to their support techs who get paid to read people cry to them all day about issues. Anet knows there are bugs and problems. There is a page dedicated to it. It’s been mentioned. All these things have. Wait for a fix and relax on responding to anyone who tells you to just wait for your turn.

We are going to get a fix. Quoting every post and crying about how unfair it is that our not really too broken yet still broken mechanics aren’t fixed yet after we all read what you said the other 20 posts won’t do anything to change how fast we will get the fix. We get it, now chill.

Revelstoke.8924:

Colton.9460:

1. Bull rush has a long cooldown, can be dodge and everyone has some form of stun break.

I proved this is incorrect with a friend of mine. As soon as I saw the animation (big giant shoulder heading my way) I evaded. He literally turned, mid rush, and it still connected when I landed. Once it lands that’s it, you’re on the ground for at least a second if not longer when you factor in the ‘getting up’ animation, THEN you can evade. By this point youve already taken the whole meat of the damage and you’re up kitten creek.

On an unrelated side note…this build is so screwed up that I have, on a number of occassions, witness what I can only describe as a ‘self destruct’. A warrior will try this combo and quickness will kick in and the dude will just start hacking and swinging at mach 5 jumping twirling (whirlwind) etc….its like watching a robot explode in fast forward. Quite amusing. You’re actually acting so fast and cramming so many abilities into that window even the game doesnt know wtf to do…

You proved that you made a mistake when you dodged. The skill speeds you to the target but if you dodge right when you see them coming it will continue along the path assuming that the distance the entire time was longer. Thats why you got hit by the skill. There is a split second when they bulls charge you that they will stop and the hit will connect. That’s the point where you need to dodge and where you will get the evade. If you dodge right when they start bulls or close to half way through, the game will think you were farther away and will continue along its path following you as long as you don’t surpass its finite distance that the skill can travel in a straight line, which you won’t do in a dodge.

So this skill can be dodged without the need of an extra skill, and you are mad because people are capable of spiking you down. Relax, learn the mechanic (you should already know this info since you are so high in the pvp rankings) and quit crying nerf when people clearly give you a counter that requires nothing but twitch reflex at the appropriate moment.

I Dont know what you mean by Sylvari flapping their legs all over the place, but if you have spent any extensive time running, jogging, or watching people in general run, you would see that sylvari have a more natural run. Their legs don’t flap anywhere, they move as legs should on a speed jog. They have the form of world class distance runners, like the man who won the boston marathon and shattered the record (even though they didn’t count it because that marathon has a more downward slope than what they say is acceptable for a marathon record count) a year or 2 ago.

Humans, when they run without their weapon drawn (because when they run with it drawn, its less noticable) do not run at all naturally. It looks painful actually, Like they are trying to run in a way they shouldnt be. >.<

I like the longbow just because I enjoy the weapon itself more than as opposed to how it works in the game. I don’t really understand why anet decided to make the bow shoot its arrows so slow without dragging out a much more fitting animation. The #3 skill would need much more arc to make sense going so ridiculously slow, and the autoattack at longer ranges has the arrows flying way too slow. As if there is no power behind the shot and can be swatted away like they are pesky flies that are annoying you. Hell, if there was a catch action, I’m sure you could just catch the arrows mid air.

IMO: speed up the animations, add more arc if necessary to drag it out a little, and keep the damage as is. Having firing arrows out of a bow requires force. If force isn’t put into your shots, nothing will come of it. Make the weapon seem powerful, dont just give it crap animations and put huge aoe numbers on the screen.

Reynfall.1547:

Funny; I find the Sylvari running animation to be quite funny whereas the human one is quite normal.

Edit: The “language” filter in this forum is very strange.

If you toggle the human clothing instead of the armor in the Hero tab, and run around you will see how they run without any distraction from the armor or weaponry. It makes it blantantly obvious how weird the run is. They run bent at the waist an unusual amount as if they are trying to run sticking their butt out behind them. If they bring the hips forward a little, have them stand up a little taller, and focus a little more on the back end of the stride (after the feet hit the ground) they can fix it.

Sylvari run straight up, a natural position for jogging. they also even got down the toe to heel technique for running form on the sylvari. Granted the arm swing can be a tiny bit better, but overall sylvari male running is much more natural than the human male running.

This is a bit nit picky but has anyone noticed that the human males running animation is a bit unnatural? Also the way the male runs (his legs and feet) also seem a little off as compared to say, the Sylvari run animation. The sylvari male seems to have a more natural run animation (it doesn’t matter that they are so attuned with nature, this is about running in general) than the human male. Human males also seem to glide more across the ground, rather than looking like the weight of gravity affects them bringing each step back to earth, it seems as if they strictly move horizontally across the floor. It’s not so bad when they are carrying a weapon in their hands but when the weapons aren’t drawn it doesn’t sit right.

I understand the strive to make each race different, but the way the human males run just doesn’t feel natural

Ynna.8769:

Knuckledust.5621:

Ynna do you even play Guardian or you simply like to be against common sense?

No, I enjoy wasting my time arguing with people about something I don’t play.
That was sarcasm.

Five seconds Protection, to a cone in front of you, on a 30 seconds CD and a 4 seconds bubble with ridiculous knockback on a 40 seconds CD. Do you think the shield is really viable? Common sense, please.

I mostly play sPvP (for some reason) and I would use the Shield even if it only had Shield of Absorption. Even without the heal. As I’ve said before, the Shield could stand some improvement, but it’s not as horrible as people make it sound.

And I’ve been mostly vocal about people claiming that our Shield doesn’t block.

It doesn’t hard block attacks, it absorbs projectiles. Absorb =/= block. “Block” does not appear when something hits through it, and when you are fighting veteran mobs or champions that won’t get pushed back, they will physically hit you at full damage with SoA. You won’t “block” the attack negating the damage.

Ynna.8769:

Tomas Valheru.3065:

I’d have to agree that shields not blocking doesn’t fit the use of the item. The reason shields exist anywhere in history is to block potential harm. Yes I know, shields can be used offensively to bash or push, but you get shot at, slashed at, stabbed at, and attacked far more often than strictly attacking with it.

I don’t understand. How is the Shield not blocking potential harm? The whole Protection-boon is build around preventing damage (33% of it) and Shield of Absorption is preventing in two ways: by blocking projectiles and knocking back enemies.
You know what you should complain about? The Mace being able to block.

As I said, I think both 5 skills should be swapped between shield and focus. It would make more sense that the Focus use a giant magical bubble to prevent damage and bursts out a heal than to have it generate magical shields around your body and block attacks. It would just make more sense. Focus for more magical based defenses (giant bubble of protection), and Shield for more practical based defenses (shields that appear around you as a sign that you will hard block attacks). I understand that guardian uses protection magic, but it makes more sense this way.

I never said anything negative about protection. I said that it would be better sharing the animation of the warriors Shield #4 skill but instead of stunning, it bursts or pulses giving people around you protection rather than in a cone in front of you. That way if you are in the front (which happens quite a lot) you can give protection to your allies without missing. If the animation is the problem, it can be tweaked to look unique but still provide the same mechanic.

Mace (or hammer) has been used as a symbol of protection and judgment in fantasy lore for a long time, it makes sense that they would use it in such a way in this game.

I could live with everything they have in the game at the moment, maybe lower the CD’s a little bit on shield, but these are my preferences and what, to me, makes sense. What I truly dislike about guardian, specifically male, (as well as any Male humanoid Greatsword wielder in this game) is the ridiculous autoattack animation for GS. Angle strikes across the body would fit so much nicer than circle swings on only 1 side of the body the whole time in an o’lay fashion. I feel like my character is permanently leaned to the left off balance when I’m fighting mobs to the point where I don’t ever want to autoattack with the weapon and just spam its abilities and switch sets. But, alas, this is thread is about shields.

I’d have to agree that shields not blocking doesn’t fit the use of the item. The reason shields exist anywhere in history is to block potential harm. Yes I know, shields can be used offensively to bash or push, but you get shot at, slashed at, stabbed at, and attacked far more often than strictly attacking with it.

Shield of Absorption is a great skill, (on a long CD) true, but it doesn’t really seem to fit the role of the shield. Shield of Wrath fits it much better. Think about it, you already have to stop and kneel (Aka Focus) on using SoA as well as FOCUS on detonating it for a heal. Yet you have SoW on the focus that which puts SHIELDS that spin around your body and BLOCKS 3 attacks? That’s honestly a real head scratcher.

Personally, I like shield #4 skill, but (and I know I might draw heat from this) I’d rather it have a similar animation to warriors Shield #4 skill but rather than stun on contact, it bursts or pulses and puts protection on the 5 nearest allies around you. That way we get a little split second movement increase as well as a resolution to the cone protection issue if you are in the front line in battle.

This is just my opinion, take it as you will.