Guild Wars 2

mtpelion.4562:

mauried.5608:

The obvious question is what are the bots doing with what they are farming?
Metal nodes and trees and plants sell for peanuts on the TP, usually less than 3 S each, so its a really slow way to get rich, if thats the aim.

If you have a few hundred bots that are harvesting 24 hours a day, you’ve got yourself a hefty pile of peanuts.

Yep. A number was pointed out earlier, suggesting that “so what if one bot makes 50 copper?”

The problem is that the companies that make the bots don’t have just one bot. They have hundreds of thousands, literally as many as they possibly can. So as an example, let’s say that one bot can make 50 copper a day. It doesn’t seem like much. But if you have 100,000 bots making 50 copper a day, you immediately have 5,000,000 copper per day earned, which is 500 gold. 500 gold per day. That doesn’t seem like “peanuts” anymore, does it? They could buy a legendary off the trading post a week, just as an example.

And that’s just an example number. I’m convinced that even if they can only npc what they harvest, each bot makes more than that per day. Since bots can harvest 24/7 with no breaks, they can gather a LOT more than a single player.

In case anyone is getting the idea that they should start botting to make money, let me explain why it’s a problem.

1) botting, using a botting program or exploit of any kind, is against the game’s Terms of Service. That means that you WILL end up losing your entire account because you botted. Anything you ever got, whether by legitimate means or by botting, will be lost permanently.

2) botting companies try to sell this illegally-earned gold to players for their real money. One of the problems this causes is that it is real money being stolen from Arenanet, meaning they get fewer resources to make the game better, while the bot companies get more resources to bot more and ruin our games more. A second problem this causes is that, any human foolish enough to visit an illegal gold-selling website is opening themselves up to being hacked. That’s right, bot companies have no morals and will do everything they can to steal accounts, so they can do more botting, advertising, etc. And they don’t stop at game accounts; if they can steal your e-mail, your banking information, credit cards, identity, accounts from other games, they will steal it.

There are other problems, too. Thankfully, the security of Guild Wars 2 prevents a lot of other methods that botters use to hack accounts, so we’re already spared a LOT of grief.

If you care about the game, you will report every bot that you get the chance to report. If they teleport away and you are unable to report them in the game, please send an e-mail to exploit@arena.net, with as much detailed information as possible, such as map, time, and any other information about the bot that could help.

If you care about your own account, you will never visit a bot’s site, never reply to their mails or whispers, and never bot yourself.

The only way to make the game a better place is to do something ourselves. Arenanet is doing a dang lot more than any other gaming company I have ever seen, but it’s only possible if we players help out, too. They deserve our support.

Edit: I said that the example of 50 copper was used earlier in this topic, but after going back and reading it again I find that I was mistaken. The person I thought had said “50 copper” had actually said “50 stacks of copper ore” which are two very different things. It doesn’t change my example, I just wanted to point out that I made a mistake.

It appears there was some confusion at the start of this as to whether I (the OP) was reporting actual players or reporting actual bots. I hope that my second post helped clear up that I DO know the difference, I know what I am talking about, and that I don’t report any player who is gathering or on a farming run. The bots I have been reporting (or attempted to report but missed before they teleported) were CLEARLY bots.

The green wood/copper crept into the conversation because the third poster mentioned seeing similar bots in Plains of Ashford, and then those materials were used as examples for further discussion.

I wanted to clarify one point. In my second post, I talked about how the bots would engage in unnatural movement. I’m going to describe it as best as I can, because I have seen more than one bot do it. Sometimes I see a bot walk in a circle before teleporting. Describing it is difficult, but here goes: they face one direction, then they walk backwards and to the right, the straight backwards, then backwards and to the left, and the whole movement resembles a tight circle. At the end of the circle, they teleport to the next node. It was during this movement that I saw the one engineer bot use the healing elixir. I have never seen a live player do such a precise and odd movement pattern, and even if a live player ever did that, I seriously doubt a live player would do it every single time they gather nodes. By “precise” I mean it’s the EXACT same size and shape of circle every time they do it, which is something live players are rarely able to do.

Now, bear in mind that I can’t remember if the bot went to the right or to the left first when they did the circle, so what I have written is to the best of my memory and may not be the EXACT direction the circle goes in. It was hard to tell because it happened so fast, and I wasn’t behind them so it was harder to tell if they went my right or their right first. I just reported as best as I could, because it was a very peculiar movement pattern, and should be recognizable whichever way it is. And I feel the need to write this last paragraph because there seem to be people who are so nitpicky that they wouldn’t let it go if I was wrong.

Edit: Illconceived Was Na.9781, you mentioned something in your posts in this topic that was very helpful. You said that if I see people do botting, but fail to report them in the game, that I should report the situation to exploit@arena.net, not the forums here. This is correct, and very helpful. The reason I posted it to the forums was because I did not know that. Now that I do, it’s what I’ll do from now on.

I apologize for posting it on the forums when it didn’t belong here.

I wouldn’t report it if I thought it was just someone doing alt gathering, which is a valid tactic. I have several alts that I also do alt gathering on. Let me explain the difference.

Alt gathering is when you play as one main character, and leave the alternate characters you are not presently using at a major farming node (usually a daily node, such as the flax farm, or an hourly farm like the Malchor’s Leap elder wood farm). You log in on each alt, gather the farm, and then go to character select and go to the next. When you are done with your alt gathering, you move back to your main character and continue playing.

Bot farming is noticeably different. First, the nodes in question are not a farm node. Second, the character who teleports to the node often appears inside it or next to it in an unnatural way, and then immediately vanishes far faster (the literal moment the gathering is done) than anyone running an alt gathering. Third, if you happen to be farming legitimately on the same map, you may see the same bot at another node, seeing plainly they did not run to it. Frequently, bots also use skills that make no sense in the context, like a healing skill when they’re not being attacked (I saw specifically an engineer using the heal skill potion that grants swiftness. Why, I couldn’t say, but I did see it). While doing the skill, they also walk around in an unnatural fashion.

To clarify, by “unnatural movement” I mean in ways that ordinary, live players do not move. I have played a long time and seen hundreds, if not thousands, of players move, and they do not move like bots. With experience, it’s easy to distinguish them.

After my original post, I saw another bot on Diessa Plateau. They did indeed teleport from iron ore node to iron ore node, in the dredge area in the northwest side of the map. There is no possible way that they used a waypoint and then ran to the other node, to get there before I did. It was plainly bot teleporting, but that one I was able to report in the game.

Last night (November 13, 2016) and today (November 14, 2016), I saw at least two individuals using a farm bot on Diessa Plateau. I could recognize it because they appeared out of nowhere (teleport) to a node, gathered it, then disappeared (presumably to teleport to a different node). The one last night was gathering soft wood trees. The one today was gathering iron ore.

I am mentioning it here, on the forums, because they teleport too quickly to make it easy to report them. By the time I realized what they were doing, it was too late to report them individually.

Their names appeared to be ordinary names, so I don’t believe they were part of the bot companies.

Thanks for your time.

This post topic started over a year ago, and for a time the LFG Tool abuse died down. But it has risen up again. Frequently, people who haven’t read this post in the forums will try to buy or sell items. A few people will respond politely when they are informed about the policy, but most immediately resort to insults as a defense for what they are doing. There are also those who feign ignorance but actually know the policy and don’t care.

I think that a general notice should be put in the game, on the LFG Tool itself, so that people cannot claim ignorance for attempting to buy or sell items. Once people are aware, they can be punished properly for breaking a rule. It should also cut down on the number of infractions and reports that need to be made, because the word will be out there.

The most frequent method is trying to sell soulbound/account bound items to other guilds’ guild halls (i.e. they join the guild, donate the items, get paid, then leave the guild). I have not heard specifically the policy about these items, because they can’t be traded on the Trading Post in any case, but my base assumption is that this is not permitted.

I read early on in this post that selling a spot in a dungeon is permitted, but it is “buyer beware”. My opinion is that buying or selling an intangible item such as a spot in a dungeon should not be permitted; even if you have legitimate dungeoners, it just opens up the door for scams, and hence should be prevented altogether.

Recent trends in the LFG Tool is selling spots in raids. I have not seen raids mentioned specifically in this topic, but I treat them the same as I treat dungeons, in that I feel that selling spots in a raid should not be permitted (especially for the ridiculous prices some guilds charge). On a related but different note is people in raids “selling” titles and other things that are difficult to achieve. I feel that this should specifically be not allowed, as well; it defeats the point of earning a hard-to-get title, if people can just “buy” the title. Again, buying and selling anything associated with raids on the LFG Tool is just opening the door for scams, and should not be allowed.

I understand much of this post is my opinion, but I want to reiterate what I said early on: that there should be a written notice in the game, on the LFG Tool itself, about the official policy regarding the LFG Tool. That way, people will know what is allowed, and people will know what is not allowed, and people will be able to be informed when they report violators. This is a must, as it will help reduce the number of LFG Tool violations and problems. Once it is in place, it will help reduce ArenaNet employees workloads, and as such should be a high priority.

Ashen.2907:

ToothyMcFang.2305:

Where did you hear it said that the only time to enjoy the game is after working on your guild hall?

Not quite what I said, but in the following quote you state that working on the guild hall is something to be done before doing something that one enjoys. This pretty clearly describes working on a guild as being separate from doing something enjoyable.

ToothyMcFang.2305:

spend a little time every day helping gather materials for the guild hall, and then spend the rest of the time doing what you enjoy.

To clarify, let me say this: IF you don’t enjoy farming materials for the guild hall, then do just a little of it before going to things you enjoy; IF you do enjoy farming activities, then by all means enjoy that before you do other things that you also enjoy.

I was stating my original statement based on the idea that many people do not enjoy farming for the guild hall. That was my original statement because of the number of complaints I have seen about guild halls. It is plenty possible for people to enjoy a relaxing activity such as farming for the guild hall. I never intended to suggest that it was a miserable activity for everyone.

I do have a suggestion to offer. The Pact Commander Mastery line rewards you and your party with a speed buff in towns. While most of the time, that kind of bonus is great, I suggest that there should be a way to toggle it on or off as desired.

There are certain situations in cities where speed is not desired, such as the jumping puzzles in Lion’s Arch. The Troll’s Revenge puzzle especially would benefit from a toggle-switch on the speed buff.

Some vistas and other situations that involve precise jumping are made more difficult with a speed burst that used to not be there.

Labjax.2465:

God, it never gets old does it. This telling other people how they’re supposed to play the game nonsense.

It’s one thing to offer a suggestion. It’s a whole other thing to pretend like subjective mindsets are objectively wrong.

As it is, the OP reads like Stockholm Syndrome grade stuff. “It’s not that bad once you just accept your fate and realize that you have no power in how this will work.” It’s a little scary tbh.

This is nothing like Stockholme Syndrome. I am not a prisoner or hostage, and neither are you. I have the freedom to choose to do anything in the world. I enjoy playing games when I have spare time, so I could play any other game. I love this game, and I choose to play it.

I don’t waste time and energy on a nonexistent alternate reality where things are more convenient for me, hoping that Anet will make a patch just for me; I live in this current present, and I make the choice to live with and accept the current circumstances. If I thought that the Guild Hall costs were too difficult for me, then I wouldn’t bother with it.

I’m sharing my opinion, and sharing what helps me to enjoy the game more. I never said that all other opinions were wrong. I did indicate that certain other views wouldn’t enjoy this game or this experience. I offered suggestions on how some other people may enjoy the game more, specifically citing my own experiences as examples. “Individual experience may vary”, after all, so why not try to see the world from someone else’s perspective and learn from it? I am aware of the other viewpoints on the subject; I have seen them both in-game and on the forums. I decided to offer my viewpoint.

Ashen.2907:

I find it telling that someone who supports the current system specifically states that enjoying the game is something that you do AFTER working on your guild hall. Even someone who supports this system enough to be motivated to create a topic and write about it at length essentially says that it is not to be enjoyed.

Where did you hear it said that the only time to enjoy the game is after working on your guild hall?

I gave examples of what I do, which is farm before I get to other activities. I happen to enjoy my time farming, which is why I do it. If I didn’t enjoy it, I wouldn’t do it. It’s that simple.

If I farmed all day every day, I would get sick and tired of it. I’d also get sick and tired of the things I enjoy more, too, if I did those all the time. I enjoy WvW, but if I did that all day I’d be frustrated. I enjoy the daily Activities, but if I did that all day I’d go mad. I know what makes me happy, so that’s why I generally spend a little bit of time doing a variety of activities throughout the day.

And besides that, I have goals. I know that to accomplish my goals, sacrifices must be made. One goal I have is to go to Dry Top and earn enough Geodes so that I can get some Ambrite Weapons. I make time to go to Dry Top and farm events for Geodes. Would I enjoy other activities more? Probably. But I know that I wouldn’t enjoy farming there all day, so I don’t. I spend a little time there, make some progress, and enjoy my time there without overwhelming myself. Now I can also earn Coarse Sand for the guild while I farm Geodes for my personal goal, so it’s doubly rewarding to spend some time farming there.

I am in the process of working with my small guild to upgrade my guild hall. Since I’m in the leadership of the guild, I can see clearly what it’s like to get the required materials to purchase each upgrade. I am completely in favor of the current system in place for Guild Halls.

The correct mentality is needed to enjoy the experience. Any player who has the mentality that they “must get all of the possible upgrades right away” is going to be disappointed. This is not a fast-paced MOBA; this is not an RTS where you can build an entire base in a matter of minutes; and I could list countless other examples. This is an MMORPG, where things take time but are rewarding.

If you try to get all of the upgrades alone, you will be overwhelmed. That’s why you are in a Guild. The task is meant to be done as a team. If you take a team and gather elder wood and mithril in Orr, or go to Dry Top and Silverwastes for Coarse Sand, it goes infinitely faster than if you go farm alone. Plus, it’s more fun to be in the company of your friends.

Even working together, a Guild Hall takes time to build. It is meant to be that way. It makes sense. And it is satisfying to see it coming together as time goes on. It should be expected by everyone that it will take time and effort.

The way Guild Halls are set up encourages the mentality of team work. It is up to players to accept that mentality. Doing it alone, and doing it all at once, is NOT what the game is about, and having that mentality is going to make you mad. Embrace the mentality of teamwork and gradual progression, and you will be much more satisfied with the results.

The game was NOT meant to be played like this: farm farm farm all day every day until you get all the rewards you can possibly get. It is much healthier to do this: spend a little time every day helping gather materials for the guild hall, and then spend the rest of the time doing what you enjoy, be it dungeons, exploring, gliding, jumping puzzles, PvP, or WvW, or any other thing. You will be surprised to find that you will not only be happier, but you will still get the upgraded guild hall that you want.

Yes, I have every alt that I am not currently actively playing at the Daily Flax Farm. I do that because that means I spend just a few minutes on my characters gathering, and then I switch to my main for the activities that I actively want to do. It also means that I am contributing to my guild hall every day, which is something that I want. I do more farming than that for the guild hall, but that is the example that I am sharing.

Guild Halls do NOT demand that you build ALL of the upgrades in ALL of the branches. There are guilds with a PvP focus, so they are meant to spend most of their focus on the PvP branch of the guild hall. There are also plenty of guilds that do not do much PvP, so that part of their guild hall is left unbuilt for a long time. It is meant to be that way. There is no shame in not having EVERY upgrade. You are meant to get the ones that you will use.

The materials required is realistic and possible.

I have an example from real life that I want to share: I was baffled to read in the newspaper that one bridge across a river cost more than 11 million dollars to complete. Yes, the project took several years, but it’s still staggering to me. The point of me sharing this example is that now I understand better the actual costs of construction. Bearing that in mind, the amount of materials required for certain things makes much more sense.

It’s possible that some things need to be tweaked, but if Anet decides to make those changes, I will accept that too. Heart of Thorns has not even been out for one month yet, and I know expecting everything to be perfect right away is unrealistic and ridiculous. If people could get a glimpse of Anet’s side of this game and issue, they might complain less and praise them more. This is a huge update all at once, and they have to monitor and work on current content AT THE SAME TIME as working on making new content.

My bottom line is this: learn to be patient, and you will be much happier.

I’ll get straight to the point: I’m attempting to create the Legendary Shortbow “The Dreamer”. I have almost all of the materials for it now.

I need the Precursor Shortbow “The Lover”. It will be difficult for me to get lucky enough to hunt it on my own, and I can’t see myself earning enough money to buy it from the trading post any time soon.

I am looking for someone who has “The Lover” who would be willing to trade it to me in exchange for…well, almost anything within reason. As long as I am given the bow so that I can finish making “The Dreamer”, I am willing to pay off the cost of “The Lover” over a period of time. Or you might want me to farm lots of materials of all kinds, help with dungeon runs or map completion, want me to use my Mesmer to portal you through jumping puzzles, or lots of other things. I’m negotiable as to how much I will promise to pay over time in exchange for “The Lover”.

Please contact me for details by messaging or mailing “Toothymcfang” in the game. I’m on Ehmry Bay world, so that may affect my ability to provide services, but I don’t think the world difference will limit my ability to trade goods.

I am part of a small guild, and we have made it a project of ours to make a Legendary weapon together. Through our combined efforts, we have almost enough materials to finish making it. But we make money slowly, so it’s not reasonable for us to buy it from the trading post. It’s also unlikely that even after hundreds of dungeon runs, we will manage to get a single Precursor, much less the exact one we are after. We will continue to try until we complete this goal.

I am honorable, and I will keep my word to whatever deal we agree upon. I decided that I may as well try to put this request on the forums. To try and fail is better than to never try at all. I don’t expect anyone to agree to this trade, but I am asking in case I get lucky.

Thank you for your time. Have fun adventuring!