Guild Wars 2

Thaddeus.4891:

Guardian base hp is 10 900, while Warrior is 18 500, so the difference is more around 60% and not 100%. You need some vitality on your warrior to reach 23k hp.

The difference is that Warrior almost have zero active defense. You have your dodge, an evade with GS and some vigor when trait or with the right skill. So most of your defense come from your big HP pool.

The guardian is at the other extreme and is the king of active defense. Aegis, Blind, Reflect, Condition Removal, Invulnerable, Block, etc The Guardian even with the DPS oriented meta build is packed with a lot of active defense and most of those not only help yourself survive, but also help the team.

Personally, I have a far easier time to survive with my guardian in dungeon, than my Warrior.

> 8 second condition invulnerability while you can still attack
> 4 second invulnerability while you can still attack
> 3s block on shield (can still move)

Yup. Guardian has nothing to envy.

Hm, I miss these feels I had when roaming in Divinity’s reach…

When will all of them be added ? I remember reading something about Bar Brawl which made me even more interested in GW2. However there’s just Keg Brawl, and it’s not greatly operationnal nor popular.

When will we get all the activites that will make GW2 truly unique ? Like the target shooting in DR or any of the other planned activities ? (I remember a post counting them to around 30)

I’d like a dev answer. Will they be added “soon” (a year) or soon (few months) ? Are they even going to be added/finished ?

EDIT : Found it https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Activities-you-don-t-know-about/first#post1008694

WILDBILL.9048:

Tysefol.2017:

Could we also get what runes/sigils are you using ?

In one of his videos he comments that he uses runes of Lyssa

Oh ok thanks

Could we also get what runes/sigils are you using ?

Bakitten291:

See numbers aside I think we just have different play styles and thats what this is coming down to. I love 1h sword. Almost every spec I play now needs to include it, and it is more or less because I feel very comfortable with it and it really does not feel clunky to me at all. I seem to see more potential in it than you. (not saying thats a bad thing) Same goes for Scepter.

However I use scepter as a melee weapon first, and ranged weapon for when it needs to be, and honestly this DOES need to be fixed. The scepter is meant to be our sole ranged weapon and it fails pretty hard at that.

On the other hand I love Focus and torch and completely hate shield. It really just comes down to how we play our classes ourselves. Also just a bit of a background on me, My first character that I leveled was a warrior, which was kind of funny considering this was the first rpg that I had ever thought a warrior was fun. Got him up to level 54 and decided to test some different classes out too. And actually thought the Guardian was more fun and ended up switching to it.

There’s always different thoughts on weapon – it’s great that you got the hand on the 1h hand sword, I just couldn’t enjoy it. As for the shield, I would go with Focus or Torch if I just didn’t hate these side-arms for the fact that they aren’t shields. Our class symbol is a shield, yet Focus is surely the best defensive side-arm (swap the focus block with the shield bubble ? That’d be a start). While warrior’s shield is purely defensive (stun to interrupt, block if stun is on cd), Guardian’s is stranger. The prot buff doesn’t deal reliable damage nor has a good upkeep time. Only the bubble is half-decent.

Silver.8023:

(Had to make a second post as it said my reply was too long )

Anyway, sorry for another wall, I really don’t mind discussing this with everyone, it’s not like I’m mad at anyone for disagreeing with me by the way, just thought I’d make that clear. So don’t read this post in an angry voice!
The reason I keep talking about sword is that it just doesn’t seem as functional as other weapons we have, along with scepter (I think scepter is a little worse off to be honest). At the end of the day though, it’s not all about the amount of damage the weapon puts out but how well it plays if you ask me. Which, is what this whole thread is about, Guardians feel really clunky to play in regards to weapon skills and traits when compared to Warrior and other professions. Finishing combos is fun! We don’t get to do it enough!

Sums up my toughts nicely. It isn’t much about damage / hp stats, but about the tools we get to play with these (exception of scepter – low damage and low utility). The buffs we get from most of our seals are great, but it restrains us to a small space (I have seals traited to be a bit bigger, but it doesn’t help much in a dodge/run/dodge common day).

Also thanks for the numbers Silver, even though you can feel the effectiveness of a weapon by using it, it’s good to have the numbers to back up the thoughts.

Silver.8023:

I’m beginning to think people aren’t reading the original post and are simply replying to the semi-misleading title. Nobody said they were having trouble fighting Warriors!

Let’s read that again.
Nobody said they were having trouble fighting Warriors!

The OP was making a point that the Warrior weapons, skills and traits all seem to function a whole lot smoother than the Guardian’s and are, generally, much more fun to play. This is regardless of who would win in a duel.

Let’s look at some examples that apply to more than just Warrior:
Q: How many professions that use main hand sword have a leap finisher on it?
A: All but Thief and Guardian. Thief still manages to get a shadowstep, immobilise and condition removal instead of a leap. We get the handy blind but damage that is so low that it may as well heal enemies.

Q: How many professions that use main hand sword get a cripple on it?
A: All but Guardian.

Q: How many professions can liberally apply bleeds?
A: All but Guardian.

Q: How many professions are given only one condition that deals damage?
A: One. GUESS WHO IT IS!!!

(I used sword as an example as I believe it to be horribly broken compared to other professions but scepter, torch and possibly staff are also kinda static)

It doesn’t make sense that a profession designed to do well in melee can’t keep foes from simply walking away from them! The wards are ok in PvE but timely stability renders them little more than a light field with a long cooldown (this is ignoring the fact people just roll through them).

Q: What does stability do to a good cripple or immobilise?
A: Jack.

Understand, I’m not annoyed at the fact we can’t do everything, I like profession diversity, I’m annoyed at the fact we can’t even do basic things that every other profession is able to perform.

This has nothing to do with Warriors beating Guardians in fights or vice versa, I’m talking about the effectiveness of their skills and traits. There are enough strawmen floating around here already.

What was that? Oh that’s right, this has nothing to do with Warriors beating Guardians in fights or vice versa!

It might be a good idea to change the title of this thread so it stops confusing people.

Thanks, I feel less alone.

A Warrior excels at PvE without a doubt, there is a reason why everyone wants 4 Warriors in their group. However in PvP and WvW, they cannot compare to the Guardian, who is both useful in both PvP/WvW and PvE.

Yes Warriors have a high health pool and damage, but they have a high health pool because they cannot mitigate nor prevent damage like a Guardian can, they can only endure it which is where there high health comes in. They are also incredibly predictable, which makes them easy to avoid with attacks such as 100 Blades rooting them in place.

Guardians have better mobility, better synergy with skills, and have tons of ways to both mitigate and prevent damage. If a Guardian would have a high health pool like Warriors, they would be straight up OP and unkillable.

I do realize giving guardians +8k hp would truly make us OP. However, there is still something to do. I always like to play a tanky character, so I don’t mind getting some hp. But, compared to our Warrior friends, vitality is a “vital” (pardon me the pun) stat. Glass canon Guardians cannot exist (or in skilled hands who will achieve greater deeds with other classes). I always get hp, but someone could raise the problem of hp flexibility – we can’t do nothing without it. Also, the recent topic in the Guardian forums about the usefulness of armor raises a serious problem. It doesn’t do much – which makes hp strong.

I think that’s what bother me most. The flexibility. Yeah, we have great stun & conditions removers, passive heals, but in a fight scenario, what are we expected to do but to use hammer / shield-mace ? The slowness of the weapons allow people to use stability & dodge at the right times (again, I played these, know their effectiveness, and have faced fearsome opponents. Popping fear no pain / elem bubble / double / whatever can make you dodge stuff a the right times wrecks your combo).

Limiting a class to a few options makes it easily counterable. That’s why scepter & sword amongst others need some love.

KensaiZen.3740:

Completely obvious to me some people here have absolutely no idea how to play a guardian.

Who says a Guardian has to go either bunker no damage or glass cannon quick death? Hybrids are probably the most powerful type of Guardian as the class is pretty much designed for support as you fight.

Jack of all trades. remember?

Those who think Guardian = Bunker no damage is playing the class wrong. Those who spec for DPS but can’t survive is playing the class wrong.

It is a L2P issue. Find me a warrior that can take me down 1V1 and I will even begin to believe that warriors have something to topple a Guardian.

Thank you for all that instant hatred/guile post.

Again, I have never said I had troubles with killing warriors. I have compared the kits Guardians and Warriors have and pointed at the fact that Warriors have more “fitting” kits. If you had even read the OP, I have a hybrid build, and I know it’s effectiveness (I even started to juggle a bit with either more knight or more valkyrie).

Little exemple : Crithammer works great with hammer + mace/shield. Yet, I haven’t found any build that worked well with scepter (to lesser extent with staff – staff isn’t too bad) because the weapon itself is in dire need of a change. Now look at the awesauce rifle the Warriors get. If they want to keep someone at bay, they can, if they want to let someone come, they can as well. However, we will have a much harder time doing this – not that we do not have tools for it, but they aren’t optimal for how we’re supposed to roll.

Again, don’t get me wrong, I have killed people in PvP, WvW, whatever you want. I do feel the need of change due to that – when I have no ranged option to face a mere warrior (scepter out of question, staff not enough range – JI, knobacked. Stability ? Great, every ranged scenario will require stability).

Another exemple on thieves : Warrior will quickly burst it down with a minimum of CC, but we, supposed to make it a long fight, will get it down for a few seconds, and it will go away.

7/10 for Arahborn sounding too much like Aragorn :p

My Guardian’s name is Ormindo Finth. Good lord, this name is nearly 6 years old. And “Ormindo” is almost 8 years old. It was just a kid’s blabbering, a random sound. I kept it, and added “Finth” (started something around “faith” as it was for a Paladin at first). I learned only recently that “Ormindo” was the name of an opera (lol).

This name was first used for an Archer, but as soon as I discovered what a Paladin was, it would never change : Paladins, Captains, Guardians…

Silver.8023:

I’m ignoring all that food crap going on in here save for this one statement as food for thought! We can rely on every armour and weapon crafting profession no questions asked but why not also rely on chef? Some of those food effects are awesome.

Anyway, back onto the original topic, I don’t run a full on damage oriented build and I don’t believe I should have to. I don’t argue that Guardians are hella tough to kill. Being hard to kill doesn’t necessarily mean we’re godlike because I also find that for the builds that are hard to kill, it’s also quite hard to kill anyone, especially other tough builds. The reason for this, as I’ve mentioned before, is that while we certainly do have good sustained damage, having all the other professions run circles around us makes that sustained damage relatively useless.

Fictional case in point:
“Come back here so I can pummel you with my mace! If it’s not too much trouble, please stand still while I’m doing it so my symbol actually does something as I have no means of keeping you there…. Yeah you better run. I’ll just… stand here I guess.”
(Yes, of course if it were me at this point I’d be switching weapons but you see what I’m getting at)

I think we simply need to fix a few weapons or traits and Guardians will be golden. If we just had a couple of cripples on weapon skills (and perhaps a pinch more swiftness/movement speed) we’d be so much more effective in melee like we’re supposed to be. While we’re at it, some combo finishers would be nice! (Imagine Smite Condition as a blast finisher! :O)

Some good candidates for weapon reworks would be sword and scepter if you ask me. I find sword and scepter to be the worst weapons we have, I don’t really care if you use them and have a great time, I find them hardly as effective as they could be and incredibly boring to use (compared to say, Warrior weapons). Yes, they work, but they could work so much better and be more fun. As it stands, I won’t use either unless the situation absolutely calls for it.
I have put up a thread or two about them a while ago though so I won’t derail this one too much, they’re probably a couple of pages back now though.
I think torch could stand to be reassessed as well but I admit I haven’t put a whole lot of thought into that one.

If you look at Warrior weapons, the only main hand weapons (two handers included) that don’t have a cripple on them are longbow, harpoon gun and mace. Longbow and harpoon gun still have immobilise and mace is littered with stuns.
I’m not asking for carbon copies of Warrior skills but surely you can see that there’s a distinct lack of snares for Guardian when you compare the two soldier professions, both designed to be more effective in melee range, only one can maintain it.

I fully agree with you. There are two case scenarios : Either you are a glass canon guard, thus you are pointless, or you are a bunker that will be kited again and again and again.

Problem is, where Guardian can’t go glass canon, Warrior can due to their integrated heal (+8K) and their much higher damage. Where Warrior will burst down someone, we’ll get kited.

I’m TOTALLY okay with the fact that guardians are made for longer fights and that Warriors have burst (and I also agree with the fact that warriors can’t last as long as guardians – damage taking wise), but we do not have the tools to keep the fight as long as we need it. Warriors have, oddly enough.

A scepter & sword remake would be a nice start. A few skill would need a bit of change as well (Just thinking of Melandru’s form for instance, I remember the swipe had decent damage that could almost justify the slowness of the form. Now I can hardly get it to hit to something noticeable – was it nerfed ?).

Silver.8023:

I don’t think the original issue is which profession can beat another, the real issue was that to the OP, Warrior’s just had it a lot easier as a melee (and ranged) profession and seems more useful and suited to it.
As I said, I tend to agree, I’m not saying Guardian is crap, I love Guardian but just the way the skills and traits are for both, Warrior just comes out on top in terms of being fun and certainly in regard to damage.
Guardian support is quite good though, no arguments there. I find a good percentage of Guardian’s weapons really not up to par when compared to the effectiveness of Warrior weapons (not to mention, plenty of other professions).

That’s what I said. I do not care about being able to kill X or Y class (just don’t get me started on thieves). I was just ranting about how their sets combine so well compared to ours.

I think the only good set we have is mace + shield. It just feels like made to be played. But for the rest of our weapons, with the exception of the hammer, they don’t feel as great as warrior counterparts. Again, it’s not that I want the damage or DoTs of the Warriors, I would just like a counterpart as good as them. Maybe not damage-wise, but just around the weapon itself – make them actually useful.

I think I’m with the OP on this one, I love Guardian to death but I’m starting to feel a little lacking compared to the ol’ Warrior, especially considering a bunch of our weapons seem really lackluster. If you ask me, torch, sword, scepter and maybe shield are crying out for a rework. That leaves greatsword, mace, hammer, staff and focus as the only weapons really worth using if you ask me (excluding underwater, they’re generally ok though). Someone mentioned earlier that Warriors have bad trait synergy or something, are you serious?! From a Guardian perspective, looking at other profession’s traits makes me jealous of how well they work together! Compare Zeal to Strength… it makes me cry a little inside…

I would say, however, that the biggest problem for me is that a lot of Guardian skills just aren’t as fun for me. I think it’s a lack of combo finisher options, if I don’t want to use greatsword, hammer or focus, there’s NO other land based finishers. The other kind of sad thing is, why would you not want to use greatsword, hammer or focus? They’re most of the best working weapons.
I think also, as a class that’s designed to be better at melee than ranged, we should have much better options for maintaining melee range than we currently do. Specifically cripple. Look at Warrior, another class that is designed around melee damage (however their ranged damage is also LEAGUES ahead of Guardian as well but that’s another thread) and they have a cripple and/or immobilise on almost every weapon. Before you say, “Yeah but we have X amount of control skills!”, so do Warriors!

I really want to use sword on my Guardian… I just can’t, it just doesn’t work. Looking at Warrior’s sword makes me jealous… bleeds everywhere, gap closer that’s a leap finisher, good damage, cripple, immobilise…. and that’s without an offhand. I know they’re supposed to play differently and all that but throw us a bone here!

Ah well, I’m holding on to hope that the next few patches will include some good fixes for Guardian. [/quote]

My thoughts explained in a better manner (I had wrote my post just after a good Warrior session, which made me sad of my Guardian’s state even more)

That’s one point I didn’t develop : ranged. It’s like have none. Staff is GREAT for PvE, don’t get me wrong, but come on, the scepter ? It has 500 range versus moving targets…

It is true that warriors have a greater ease at keeping targets close… Cripple, stuns… Their shield set is just great for tanking, much better than Guardian. It does feel epic to absorb catapult rocks, don’t get me wrong, but when there’s just people comming in your bubble to murder you, you can just feel sad. Knowing that warriors CAN move while blocking.

If I go up with a knight set, how will I get my crit-damage to 50% ? Does precision inflict that stat too ?

Will we get some love someday ?

Everytime I discover something on my Guardian, I also learn that warriors have the tuned up equivalent.

Just FYI, I have 350 hours on my Guardian which is my most loved character so far. However, the more I play, the more I feel cast in the shadows of warriors.

There’s just so many things. We get a petty burn every 5 auto-attacks, most of their attacks bleed every auto-attacks. They have 8K more base hp than us, I heal for 8K with my strongest heal. We got a “unique” health-regen, they can equip a signet for that. They have a 3 second block on their shield, we get a 4 second “hey have a free walk into my blue dome”. Oh and we can be invulnerable for 3 seconds and regen what would have been : A few seconds burn, a 2-3k heal, one block, while doing nothing. They can be invulnerable for 5 seconds AND STILL DO WHAT THEY WANT.

Don’t get me wrong, I absolutely agree that guardian is perfect for PvE. But for PvP, & WvW I just feel like a watered down Warrior. I will never understand why we have so little hp (I’ve heard it’s because of our heals. Warriors have our heal integrated in their base HP ! They can also get a regen !). I was finnaly starting to feel useful with a semi-tanky hammer build, and then I just met a warrior using a similar build who could just own so much more than me because his F1 actually did something and he had 8K more hp than me, not counting heals.

It’s just… I’m really getting kittened out. That’s around 300 hours of seeing warriors being tuned up guardians building up in my rage-room spilling out right now.

And before the “roll a warrior”, it’s a already done. But I don’t like the class. It’s just free, nearly overpowered damage and brutality. I don’t want that. I just want a guardian with either more hp and heals, or just decent virtues (using F2 signs your death, using F1 in 1v1 is useless, using F3 is actually useful. Great).

It’s just a random rant, but I couldn’t stand it anymore.

I would be ok with Thief’s damage if they just couldn’t escape once they get the kill. Or if they fail.

Quoting RaggokOozo, a guardian I fully respect : " I think it is total cheese that a thief can reset a fight like this and regain full health so they can try again. They can reset the fight if they make a mistake or if things don’t go their way and just try again and keep trying until their opponent makes a mistake or they execute their attack perfectly."

Link to the quote : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvn_d5WII48

Caffynated.5713:

guardian 9/10 – The bridge of his nose is a bit too wide. The beard is great. A man without a beard might as well be a woman.
Thief 0/10 for being a thief. I kid 9/10 – not a fan of the hair.
Ele 6/10 might just be the expression in the SS but she looks like she’s sniffing paint fumes.

My ele

Don’t know if I have to rate face or clothing. Clothing is excellent, nice taste of colours. However your character’s face seems stern… Cold.

Here’s my guardian on WvWvW duty

That’s very nice of you ! Here’s my loved Guardian (only toon so far). Haven’t yet been able to find a fitting armor (I love paladinish stuff. Had a Paladin in Dungeon & Dragons, a Captain in Lotro…) so maybe I’ll save up for cultural armor.

He’s what you would expect from a Paladin. Also has some lonely moments, gazing at the area, thinking about the life he has, his lost friends and his far-away wife.
Even though I mostly use hammer & greatsword ingame, he’d be more like sword & shield / greatsword

Thanks again !

Edit : loving your work so far !
I finnaly got the cultural armor, here’s a few screens

Just draw the set you want to

Is it me or did we just get new voice prompts ? I’m playing human here and got brand new ones like “I always wanted my own castle”

Hullo

Any tips on that ? I recently reached 400 metalsmith, did a few calculations and it seems that buying mats for exotics and selling them isn’t worth the hassle (I lose a bit of silver each time, I would win a few without this darned 15%). Any special recipes that work well ?

So I’m supposed to get a few ectoplasm per rare ? Wew, that’s new.

Also, I’ve heard Black Lion salvage kits didn’t have true 50% rare salvage rate, is it true ? I mean, could that be my problem ?

EDIT : First ecto at 9th rare, geez.

Hullo,

I had heard that ectoplasm was a good way to get money, and so by farming fractals I got a few l80 rares. I used my old BL kits to deconstruct them, however all I got would be 1 mithril ore or 2 leather straps, 0 ectoplasm on 4 rares.

I’m getting a bit annoyed as each rare could have been sold around 20s minimum, that’s almost a gold coin wasted. I wouldn’t want to continue on that – has the ectoplasm drop rates changed ? Are they acquired differently now ?

I agree that the dungeons are not fun, but for other reasons.

There are 0, NO boss strategy. Not even DUNGEON strategy. It’s always either : rush the thing / get to a safe place to dps the boss.

The adds (or trash mobs, whatever you call them) are way too tanky and deal too much damage. Sure, you deleted the “holy trinity”, but you did not replace it with something durable.

About these boss strats. Catacombs tried to install one with the siblings, but they were so much wipe-tastic it wasn’t fun. After this dungeon, I can’t recall any kind of boss strategy. Honor of the Waves is kill the trash, kill the boss (or rush the stairs, get the boss to bug for the infinitly-respawning-adds boss). Twilight Arbor almost made me think there was a strategy when I saw the big boss. But no. No running around trying to avoid his smashes, no boss phases… I think that’s the main problem. No boss phases. Once you start dpsing the boss, you don’t stop spamming buttons untill he’s dead. It’s hugely boring. We badly need phases.

Having played Dungeon & Dragons Online, Lord of the Rings Online & Star wars Online, where ALL the dungeons where about was BOSS STRATEGY, it’s a bit deception. I totally gave up at level 80. Leveling was extremely fun, don’t get me wrong, but endgame is inexistant. There is this legendary grind to do, and that’s it.

Don’t get me on WvW. It’s great, sure. But what respectful MMO classifies his PvP as his only endgame ?

These were my 2cents.

The main problem of scepters is the projectile speed. Its effective 1200 range is totally nullified when chasing an opponent. And once you hit him, you deal almost no damage.

I totally agree with the fact that shields aren’t worth anything. The only truly defensive skill it offers is it’s 5, which allows you to push back and interrupt foes. The problem is it keeps you down for a moment AND THE BUBBLE CAN BE WALKED THROUGH. Half the times it bugs and you can’t break the bubble, too. I use scepter/shield as I need a ranged weapon and I simply can’t bear the idea of using a cowbell. I started as a sword & board user, but it showed up to be so useless that I gave up.

I really wish they buff the shield and maybe the sword as well.

A sidenote on guardians, It’s quite bumming me out that they do almost everything we do but in better ways. Not even talking of their damage, too.

It’s getting really, REALY tiresome. I’ve described a problem page 21, and there are 8 pages full of people complaining about the same thing. We can just invite people and that’s it, we’re sitting on influence. Could we get a ‘hello’ at least ? Something ? An ETA ? It’s been more than one week of frustration that’s been un-answered. Do something for Lyssa’s sake.

I can’t understand people that say they didn’t need to farm to reach level 200 crafts. I’ve only been focusing on Armorsmith, and it has been a PAIN to keep my crafting level up to my character level. After reaching level 20 (character) I had to stop every 10 levels to go on and farm fine materials (and yes, I only farmed discovery recipes). I totally gave up at level 50 as the crafting farm was just ruining my fun.

Now some few polar bears will call me ‘yet another casual’. I’ve been through a good lot of MMOs (including asian farming ones). I’ve rarely met such a farm-requiring craft.

Ever played LOTRO ? It’s EXACTLY the same system, just WITHOUT the rare, hard to find Fine materials. You also have ore nodes (including rich nodes), you refine your ingots, etc… Want to make yourself an amor ? Just use your hammer, an anvil and some metal. No scale, teeth or whatever totem that has nothing to do with smithing needed. Now, there are mob-dropped crafting items, however they are only used in rare recipes (Which would correspond to exotic or higher for guild wars). This actually gives a role to ‘veteran’ mobs (there’s some equivalent on LOTRO). They have a chance to drop such rare item (e.g. mithril flakes in Moria).

Now don’t get me wrong – I’m not advertising for LOTRO or anything, I haven’t been on it for a while. I just miss the good, handle-able crafting.

One last note, do not think LOTRO’s craft is instant-maxed. It does require time, but it is possible and not utterly frustrating to continuously use your crafting skills to get things you need.

That was my 0.02$

Server: Arborstone [FR]
Guild name: Wandering Adventurers
Guild tag: [WAD]

Exactly the same as above : I am leader, but I only have “Edit ranks” ticked. So no upgrades, no promotes, no kicks. I can just invite people, and create ranks. That’s it.

Cannot edit anywhere in world.

Gonna post in that topic, thanks.

Hi,

I created my guild to invite a few friends. I could invite them no problem, but I couldn’t promote them to the rank of “officer”. I couldn’t even edit the ranks – all I had ticked in my leader rank was “edit ranks”.

I highly doubt it’s WAI.