Guild Wars 2

ElexOrieN.2130:

DPS = Warrior
Tank = Warrior/Guardian
Support = Guardian/Mesmer

We do have the trinity in this game it’s just that some people fail to realize it.

Agreed, we do have holy trinity

DPS = warrior (stuff dies fast)
TANK = warrior (stuff dies faster so you take less damage)
SUPPORT = warrior (whats better, healing for 2k? or making stuff die even faster so you don’t take 20k hit i nthe face)

In all seriousness though, trinity is a good thing cause it lets people define them selfs but this game just has broken mechanics and it would not work here.

Staff is bad, if you compelled to use staff then use it as a switch weapon with greatsword or sword/focus. But using just staff will make you bring very little utility as well as very little damage to the group.

Staff has some support potential, it gives 12 might stack to allies, and if you have boons you apply heal you talent then it will heal you for around 7k at base as its a total of 60 boons. Now to use it as a main weapon is a very bad idea, guardians can trow out bout 5 aoe blinds in a row with F1 and 3 diffrent weapon skills (f1 refreshes very fast) in melee range, so their best support is done at melee. Not to mention the staff damage is beyond horrible, while you do increase party damage you are bringing almost no damage your self. A hammer auto attack will do more support then staff too, mace also better support weapon.

Mouts would be pointless, all the zones are instance based and way points pretty much let you go to any location. I love mounts in this game, I just thing this game does not have a good enough system for them.

Temariah.9372:

Ventrue, I believe you have sufficiently illustrated why Public Recount would be a horrible idea. Thanks for pretending to be really elitist so everyone knows what we’re talking about.

The recount would allow players to see dead weight, I understand your passive aggressive comment talks about how I pointed that out. But I am saying that arenanet would be forced to recreate builds so dead weight would not be a thing. There are redundant specs, if people would be able to see that they would have to fix that. I will repeat, its games fault for creating the environment, not the players for not knowing whats effective.

Keelan.7498:

I’m a berserker build and I do not approve of this. I have found that if I run a full zerker group I found in the LFG, it’s terrible because half the time the group wipes because someone doesn’t want to admit they don’t know the fights (Why would they? People kick for less.) and they don’t have enough defense to recover from mistakes.

Usually when I run dungeons, or fractals, with my guild we run with 3 or 4 berserkers and then the remaining are more “tanky” built people. We have a tanky shout guardian that sometimes runs with us, and one of our regulars is a cleric’s banner warrior. Yes, her damage is terrible. But the buffs she gives us, and the regen from each of her banners is more than “just a little”.

If recount is ever brought into Guild Wars 2, which I doubt, I’ll be very disappointed. I’m not worried about being kicked from groups, as I said my build is pure damage. But I don’t want even more elitist jerks in this game stroking their kittens.

I have read massive post talking about banner warriors… Going cleric on warrior who has banners for regen is pointless because a different class could come on cleric and actually have more then 1 source of healing. While this warrior cleric does terrible damage for sake of 200 hp regen ever 1 sec. A guardian cleric with mace can run 200hp/s from regen, 180hp/s from healing virtue share and around 140hp/s? from symbols heal allies while also providing blocks and blinds. So the the guard will heal above 500 a sec while the warrior only 200. That warrior could be berzerk and still banner build with 130hp a sec, is it worth doing bad damage for sake of 70hp/s? And you can go knight and have decent damage and defense. I disagree entirely that you need to be tanky to provide support to the group.

And this is what I mean, its not really a preference to play stile, but people don’t know that they are ineffective. I don’t want to be mean, but your friend is dead weight, and its not a fault of hers, the game is at fault for not providing tools to know what is broken and what is correct.

TheDaiBish.9735:

I personally see healing not has healing, but as a form of reactive damage mitigation alongside other buffs / debuffs (protection reduces, say, 1,000 damage to 666 damage, the spot healing from either skills or the regen buff goes a lot further)

Well maybe in fights were damage is 1k thats true, in some dungeons I guess. But in fractals mobs are known to hit 5k auto attack at weakest. And while a damage class can provide weakness or protection, its usually a cleric providing healing. And going cleric would mean that fight is longer, long enough for mobs to do lets say 15% more total damage, and it won’t be equal to the amount cleric would have healed. Going dps how ever would allow for mobs dying faster = less damage taken = less personal cooldowns used. My theory is that recount would kill most cleric builds because they could visibly see damage taken vs healing done.

But it could allow for builds that are berserker with healing at raw values, scaling on healing stat is very poor. Some thing like a guardian who just shares healing virtue/all symbols heal/hammer auto attack for 100% protection and symbol/berserker or knight stats.

Ventrue.5731:

HELLruler.4820:

I don’t wanna sound like a jerk, but try and improve your writing skills, you can say a lot more with less words sometimes

Healing is in a bad spot now imo. The game was made so every class has a way to heal himself, so party heals are weak. Curiously, Protection reduces damage by 33% – that’s so much extra defense that healing again seems to be terrible
So yeah, dealing damage is way more effective than being supportive in most cases

Improving the combat log would be excellent, adding some colors too would help

Yea, I always think that if I don’t say everything on my mind I won’t be able to explain what I mean, really sorry about that..
Guardian hammer auto attack can keep up 100% protection, always thought its best way to support on guardian, not staff or mace (lies, best way is greatsword aoe pull in).
But the biggest problem with healing (and self healing) is the way damage is distributed, often its impossible to react to damage, ascalon fractal has mages that aoe for 20k damage fireball and rangers that have a 15k shot, warriors charge for some thing like 17k on me and auto attack me for 6k (i got 11.3k hp as guardian). Its not about lowering the damage but about distributing it better so you can react to it, instead of pre-emtively react to it with dodges and blocks, thats the way your meant to deal with telegraphed attacks ofcourse, not trash damage.

TheDaiBish.9735:

The flip side of that being if everyone can see recount, I’d wager the majority of dungeon runners would kick the person who isn’t doing enough DPS, rather than help them.

Maybe if the recount didn’t actually show the names of the people, instead simply the damage (taken and received) in order of highest to lowest, then whoever is doing the lowest / receiving the highest can evaluate what they’re doing wrong.

If people want to collaborate in number-crunching, they can do so simply by speaking to each other. A shared recount isn’t needed for that.

Yea… The biggest issue of recount is that it would make people elitist. If the information would be shared it would be very good to show all the blinds created, boons applied, blocks given and all that. Also its a very horrible system that 2 people can kick some one, it should be minimum 3 people vote for a kick. But your idea would have easy work around, I could just see who’s recount increases when only 1 person does damage, then rule him out for when 2 people do damage. What about being able to see every ones recount at the end of run or posted on a website similar to how “world of logs” works for WoW.

Regardless your way too right, yesterday I had a mesmer in fractal, who used only greatsword (ranged weapons do less damage then melee, that always is a fact, and greatsword is single target for mesmers) in power/toughness/vitality gear. Her argument was that I don’t know what damage she does and that its actually very good. Having recount would allow me to kick her, as I did not, I did not argue further admitting defeat.

TheDaiBish.9735:

A personal damage meter that no-one else has access to? Sure.

I’ve heard there is one made, but arenanet confirmed that using it would be an offense, as it is a third party software. A personal recount would indeed allow people to be able to learn what stat combinations/skill rotations benefit them more. Albeit, its hard to actually judge effectiveness when you can’t constantly compare it to other people. If every one could see recount people would become aware of situations were they are doing some thing wrong, do it less, and help arenanet seriously balance classes to be more in line with each other.

Suggestion, introduce recount so people could learn their effectiveness and allow to increase their potential, letting them progress.

So I understand the logic about damage recount making people elitist. Yet I can never thought that as a bad case, in truth an mmo is suppose to be a game about character development, its not a single player rpg where you play for just fun, in mmo you need all the information at your disposal.

But regardless, lets do talk about what would happen if recount would be introduced, after I say my reasons for wanting it… How do you people feel about tanky/healing specs? My personal opinion is that a player is allowed to focus on supporting but just as long as he still contributes to damage. Healing gw2 is not rly a thing, a berserk will often take 6-7 hits just from auto attacks, its not really some thing you can consistently heal up, healing one shots even harder. Of course thats not the case if the people are running power/toughness/vitality, now they will only take 4k hits and have a nice health buffer to allow healing tick enough times to create some very effective health. But in truth, 5 berserker is probably the most defensive combination if every one is running it. The longer you take to do a fight the more damage you will end up taking. Ran 49 fractal with every one berserker (well… it was sort of ideal group… warriors and guardians…) and every thing died fast enough that I did not need to spare much survivability cooldowns while group still offered great support utility like blocks and blinds and stuff.
Now I have nothing against knight, or people who wanna try to min max their support only… But anyways, recount allows for so much. People will be forced to adapt play styles they might not enjoy to appear better on recount, I know. But in doing so they will become better players, basing your survivability on dodging and doing correct tactics should be the way this game works, and not about being able to survive the fail. You fail = you die = you learn = you have more fun.

I am also much in the support of recount because it would allow for people to do great research, mmo’s need theory crafting, they need ways for people to test things out to see how effective their unique builds are and many people know a lot of things don’t work as intended, 10% damage to undead and 10% less damage taken? Na brah, 10% more damage taken, wrong tooltip. Combat log is also horrible at actually showing what killed you.

Many people probs do love the idea of recount for many different reasons, though I assume many people will be way too afraid it will take a way peoples ability to play casually, forcing them in to game play types they would not enjoy, like going full berserk for “kitten meters”. But in truth, if people are aware that recount would prove them as useless players, high chance they are. Please, don’t debate the effectiveness of you healing skills or how many might stacks you grant with your staff. But do call tell me if I’m over the line with recount for other reasons, I do come off like an kitten I guess.

Erebus.9276:

I only get booted when I’m running my clerics venom share healer spec thief when pug guardians realize I’m out healing them. #jealous #newhealskillop

I’d kick you too, damage suffering because the group running 2 supports, and guardians who can blind 6 times (on my own damage guard I run multiple blinds on weapons… and F1 blind resets every time you kill some thing, all aoe blinds) and have blocks for your team are defo way more useful then a thief who does no damage but provides a little healing.

Well, it pumps out bunch of casual content with the living stories, it is pretty much like holly day events. Kill 200 mobs for achievement A, do a personal story for achievement B. But I would not expect any end game content if thats what your after…

Kain Francois.4328:

If you’re running PVT in Dredge Fractal, that’s a player issue, NOT a design issue!

“Learn to play”.

You don’t need insanely high DPS, but a least run something with an ounce of damage, like Knight’s.

I am a guardian with knights, I also leveled a full zerker warrior and thief that I run other dungeons with, friend I do stuff with is zerker warrior with 0 defensive talents. How do I learn to play to a point that turns my party members into knights? I was not complaining that I don’t do any damage because I have no offensive stats, I am saying there too many defensive people in this game, and you often get groups were they are all in put together in 1 group. I had runs with out my friend, as a knight guardian I don’t even compare my dps to zerk warrior, and I had people in my group who were full defensive. There is no inspect element or dps meter, there is no way I can LEARN TO PLAY this part of the game except to stop puging. But I can’t, all except one of my friends who tried this game quit.

I agree that it would be better if every one would kill respawning dredge to actually control the amount of them, but not all groups can muster that damage, the amount of time I see 4 people doing less damage then 1x berserker warrior is uncanny. 3k auto attacks from berserk, 500 auto attacks from power/toughness/vitality. Not all groups able to clear them.

So after the reset to levels I instantly found my self with a friend doing lv30 fractals. And on the third fractal we gotten dredge, I have not found any tuning to this that would make it less frustrating then it was before. The sad thing is that I have seen people complain about this fractal again and again while arenanet does not seem to react. Some groups running 5 berserker warriors or warriors and guardians might not have any problem, but pick up groups will too often have too many power/toughness/vitality characters who can not clear the room well enough. Not to mention the dredge knocking you off platforms as well as knocking you off to the middle making you fall bellow arena. After that having encounters that just involve killing 50 dredge or suicide bomb run.

For all I know its just my ignorance. Please, do tell me if its just me and the dredge dungeon is actually not as bad as I make it sound. Do people actually enjoy that fractal?

marnick.4305:

Ventrue.5731:

Sorry, are you that guy who finds it too hard to learn a class so he goes celestial because its easier not too learn a class? Please, tell me more about how it is to be a bad player by learning your class while leveling.

I use celestial because I don’t care, not because it’s too hard. Big difference.

Guild Wars 2 keeps same concept, if you just make a class and go straight for pvp you won’t know how skills/stats interact with the class and will have to ether fail a lot until you understand or do extensive research. I suppose gw1 only gives u 4-7 important skills to learn for your entire game, not around 40 like wow. So you don’t need to worry about how those interact.

You can stop posting now. GW1 skills were extremely complex, every skill mattered and they interacted on very deep and interesting ways. Furthermore, every character in GW1 had over 1000 skills to choose from, and it was that exact choice that mattered.

To claim that GW1 skills didn’t interact, and you only had 4-7 important skills is pure ignorance.

Seriously … if you don’t know a game, please don’t talk about it. I’d like to continue WoW and GW2 discussion with you though.

That was only a typo, meant gw2 not gw1, sorry, I am aware of gw1 complexity, I put my share of hours in to that game and even have some posters on my wall.

Ventrue.5731:

Hjorje.9453:

jheryn.8390:

Ventrue.5731:

Jack of Tears.9458:

Ventrue.5731:

Not a single point I made was even argued,

Not a single point ya made was new or interesting; ya want good feedback, write something original.

But I’m not angry with ya – though I know you’d love me ta be – that might suggest your post said something I haven’t heard a thousand times – and said better. At this point it’s just annoying.

Gotta give it to ya, though, as a Troll, you’ve got stick-to-it-ive-ness.

You seem upset son, every thing ok at home? Hows family? Feeling bit sad? Thinking bout cruising dem forums. It won’t solve your problems, but I am glad none the less that you visited.

Hey Jack of Tears. Don’t you love when they prove your point? LOL

Since the OP deleted his post, I will take it from where someone else caught it.

This right here just caused anything you say from here on out not matter. You are just a troll.

It is pretty sad too. I was reading all of this and was going to comment on some of the stuff you talked about in your rambling post to start this, since it seems your writing level is that of a 4th grader.

But to each his own. I used to play games like you, min/mix everything I could, find the best way to do each set of content. Now I have never played WoW, but I have done a few other MMO’s. As I have gotten older, gotten married, and had children, I enjoy a more casual style since I don’t know when I will play, or if I will get intrupted. I don’t min/mix any more in the sense that you do. I find the best build for my play style and that is FUN for ME. I still try to be good, but not put as much effort into. I have a warrior, I run Knights with him because I am the type of person that just stands in there way past when they should dodge out. I understand that about my self and changed accordingly.

You talk about rangers in one of your post. My play style on a ranger to you would be considered bad. I enjoy condition build on him. I run Rabid armor. I use a SB and sword/dagger. And I have a lot of fun with it. I do decent crit damage, and my poison stacks duration really well and I survive. I use it in dungeons all the time and never have any problems.

Yes there are areas within the game where it is better to have certain stats to make the fights easier, but it is not required. The game is set up for players like me to just play, whenever I want and not have to worry about gear. But players like you, just need to head back to games that fit your play style, because GW2 will never be it.

I found nothing constructive in your comments at all. You don’t understand a single thing I said and you try to justify every thing with “my play style, go back to wow”. And it sounds like maybe you just read a single sentence before you already created that opinion, you consider my comments about stat interaction/controls/content/skills/movement are wrong yet you don’t prove a single thing, your not debating, and you expect me to say some thing smart to some other guy who can’t say anything constructive? We can only learn from other games, there is no reason for people like you to insult other games.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Ventrue.5731:

I don’t mind casuals, though I probs have different understand of what casual means then other people, to me its just some one who plays less, not plays worse. In community part of my post I wanna say that people don’t understand faults and don’t point them out. If there were hundred of posts of people complaining about things, those things kitten right would be fixed. But as far a community thing goes though, your a ranger, have you ever got kicked out from a fractal group for being a ranger?

Thanks for reading and giving very constructive comments btw.

Kitten, hit the char limit in my reply post… ah well.

You come off as though you are stating that to be casual is to be bad, which one does not necessarily mean the other to be true. I’ve met some “elitists” that were downright terrible, while I’ve played with many a casual that was flippin awesome. (So jealous)

No, I have never been kicked from a fractals group for being a ranger. Nor from a dungeon, for that matter. However, this is likely due to the types of people I choose to play with, when I opt to do those things.

Edit: I really don’t know why you hate celestial so much. It’s nice on a support ele….

I am not type of player who will insult some one for playing badly in game, but I will be glad to see them fail and see my self out perform them, in that scenario I suppose I’m a huge kitten. I like to min max, I like to do better then other people, I find it more fun to think of specs then to play games. I’ve leveled bunch of characters with crafting just so I could tests some armors, when I leveled my warrior I actually only wanted to play around with healing set. I record my self hitting mobs and then analyze it frame by frame as a recount. So I could see attack speed of weapon differences, take in account dead time. I love to die, I can start figuring out why I died.

I am absolute elitist kitten hole, still, I made the post not to condemn gw2, I would like this game to change.

Claudius.5381:

Ventrue.5731:

Not a single point I made was even argued, I sort of assume people can’t argue with what is correct so they get bum hurt about it and retort with being upset about their game being bad. Seriously, there were few people who read it, but can any one have an argument that is valid? Mention a single thing I’ve told that is not correct about this game and then insult me.
Well I guess its too much, I would be upset too if people would point out faults of my game and I could not come up with a rational argument.

You are trying to troll us, right? I mean there are a lot of critical posts on this forum, some well argued, some not, but this is really a new low. GW2 is not WoW. In fact it tries to be completely different. The usual critique is that it does not succeed (enough). That may or may not be true but is at least a valid angle.

But to argue that a pear you buy is faulty because it is not an apple but a pear is… pure trolling.

I’ll assume you read the entire thing, were I talked about faulty movement in my paragraph 5. controls. Did I say anything that contradicts your play style and you think I am unhappy with because wow does it better?

marnick.4305:

Ventrue.5731:

Well, wow leveling part is more about learning you class then enjoying the gameplay, gw2 has made an amazing job being one of few games actually fun to level. WoW gameplay pretty much begins at max lvl, you do a 5 man dungeons to get gear to 10/25 man raids. In raids you do first 3-4 bosses, maybe you will wipe on boss 5 for a few weeks because you ether not use to the fight and people die, or you lack gear and time out (enrage timer). You clear the raid, you progress to next tier raid.
If you play dota or league of legends, think of it as… Laning phase first and then objective based gameplay.

How ever I do not make any valid points there I guess, my complaint is not mostly about no content, but the type of content, In my eyes the game should provide players with both casual story content and improve of how fractal difficulty progresses OR provide with dungeons after fractals.

I am sorry here, I understand that this part is very much elitist wish of what kind of content I want.

You have all the right to wish for difficult and rewarding content. I think fractals and guild missions allow you to have exactly that. If fotm40++ is tweaked to have more meaningful difficulty improvement and increasing chances at unbound fractal weapons, then maybe we’d both benefit from that.

As far as levelling goes … if you need 80 levels to learn a class, you’re a bad gamer, plain and simple. My accumulated gaming knowledge over the years means I can learn any character in a matter of minutes. It’s not like WoW invented anything new.
Levelling in MMORPGs is a time sink, a form of milk before meat. The mere levelling process forces you out of at least 4 monthly fees the fist time you do it. There’s nothing more to it. If you really need that time to learn a class … you’d be so bad that any blue geared ranger would beat your ascended zerk warrior in 1v1 by virtue of pure skill.

Sorry, are you that guy who finds it too hard to learn a class so he goes celestial because its easier not too learn a class? Please, tell me more about how it is to be a bad player by learning your class while leveling.
Guild Wars 2 keeps same concept, if you just make a class and go straight for pvp you won’t know how skills/stats interact with the class and will have to ether fail a lot until you understand or do extensive research. I suppose gw1 only gives u 4-7 important skills to learn for your entire game, not around 40 like wow. So you don’t need to worry about how those interact.

There is little difference between wow and gw2 leveling other then visuals. Wow has plenty of fun quests were you control flying units to destroy armies, were you siege cities and fun minigame quests. The only thing gw2 added is no need for npc interaction, kill 20 bandits that are attacking the village? That is so much more fun then kill 20 bandits quest in wow.

You are the type of person I don’t like in gw2, you deem it too elitist to try and learn your class, you hate wow because its not gw2 and you love gw2 because its not wow, and you seem to be a very bad player who has an excuse that he enjoys him self. I don’t need to take time out of my life to clearly see how I can keep same play style while maximizing my characters powers, and I can see how games I dislike have positive mechanics that the game I like can integrate. I love dota2, I don’t like league of legends, I can see so many things league of legends done right and so many things dota done wrong.

Evans.6347:

Bubi.7942:

@Evans:
I feel ashamed for that. May the gods have mercy on my soul.

May Dwayna embrace you with her all transcending compassion.

No seriously, I find the whole berserker of gtfo mentality asinine. I agree that there are extremely poor stat combinations which a player can theoretically pick, but the whole game is built on mechanics which make player choices fool-proof.

I am a guardian and I use knight, power/precision/toughness. Would be too afraid to play berserker with 13k hp. Got a berserker thief and berserker warrior though, warrior does more damage and has more survivability, I could put vitality on thief and do even less damage but have same survivability. I could also go power/toughness/vitality on my warrior but then why not just stay berserk and just never melee, I will do more damage and have even better survivability? But then you could just go all out tank and range, get the best of both survivability worlds, and that is the play style people enjoy.

Those are my arguments. Scenarios arise were I just wanna ask why? If you are a guardian on a single boss fight why would u attack him with your staff? Is it for that 8k heal ability for your self? People are allowed to make mistakes in this game at great disadvantage. Their argument is – I enjoy this play style. That too is some thing I have against the developer, why punish people for going high damage route with your one shot auto attacks.

marnick.4305:

Why then don’t you play WoW for the gear progression and GW2 for the real content? Seems like win-win.

The issue with wow is not weather or not the game is bad, its simple the same as it always was. I played wow for my share of years, I enjoyed it, I don’t regret it. But the problem is that I am a pve hero so I can’t play it casually, I had to do hard mode raids and after a while it became rinse and repeat. New raid came out – clear normal/clear hard/repeat for gear grind/get some achievements/wait for new content.

I could say that wow raiding is like gw2 fractals, after lv50 it probably gets too familiar to enjoy. I’ve quit wow back in cataclysm and mostly play dota2. The examples I use with wow is simple because people who play wow would understand them better, its easier for me to know of those examples as a wow player, and no matter how much people might hate wow here, its very hard to argue that wow has very well thought out mechanics. While gw2 is a great game with so many mechanics that need fixing.

I played many games, I can always criticize any game I played, I am sure that goes for every one here, we all know what we would like to see improve in the game, but when we see some one else complain but not have same ideals we think “he is not complaining because of the right reasons”, if you add any of your ideals to that persons complain its like your supporting he’s ideals too, and since you like the game its so much easier to just defend it.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Doesn’t all the content you do to get to level 80 count as progress-based content? I’m obviously clueless because I only played WoW for a few hours back when it released. I found it way too cartoony and the community too mean-spirited for my taste. Luckily, I was trying out Guild Wars at the same time, and chose that game for my online video-gaming pleasure. And here I am today! Clueless, but happy! =)

Well, wow leveling part is more about learning you class then enjoying the gameplay, gw2 has made an amazing job being one of few games actually fun to level. WoW gameplay pretty much begins at max lvl, you do a 5 man dungeons to get gear to 10/25 man raids. In raids you do first 3-4 bosses, maybe you will wipe on boss 5 for a few weeks because you ether not use to the fight and people die, or you lack gear and time out (enrage timer). You clear the raid, you progress to next tier raid.
If you play dota or league of legends, think of it as… Laning phase first and then objective based gameplay.

How ever I do not make any valid points there I guess, my complaint is not mostly about no content, but the type of content, In my eyes the game should provide players with both casual story content and improve of how fractal difficulty progresses OR provide with dungeons after fractals.

I am sorry here, I understand that this part is very much elitist wish of what kind of content I want.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

5) controls and responsiveness. I have encountered some of the issues you mention – getting caught in an animation, issues with disengaging a skill in order to dodge. While activating a dodge should cancel your current skill, it doesn’t always, although I have found that hitting esc (much like canceling a skill in gw1) will. Yes, I know, extra keystroke, those milliseconds could be the diff between life and death, but for now it works for me. This may or may not be something they can adjust / fix. I don’t know how their systems are set up. Of course, it could be something they are already looking at, as I know similar complaints have been brought up before.

6) Community. There is nothing wrong being a casual player. There is nothing wrong with not being absolutely the best player, or even striving to be the best player. This is a game, not a job. Some people treat it like a job, at which point they need to go play with other like minded players. You make it sound like the people that don’t want to go do dungeons, or go do fractals are somehow wrong, or bad, because that’s not what they enjoy. There is absolutely nothing wrong with those decisions. You play your way, they will play theirs.

I don’t mind casuals, though I probs have different understand of what casual means then other people, to me its just some one who plays less, not plays worse. In community part of my post I wanna say that people don’t understand faults and don’t point them out. If there were hundred of posts of people complaining about things, those things kitten right would be fixed. But as far a community thing goes though, your a ranger, have you ever got kicked out from a fractal group for being a ranger?

Thanks for reading and giving very constructive comments btw.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

4) Content. I play the LS for the story personally. True, its not the best story, but hopefully as the patches get larger, and they figure out more ways of presenting it to us, it will get better. I’m not huge on jumping puzzles myself, although I don’t mind the mini games. I think they LS provides enough options to appease most people, since we all like different things. For me, the LS has been slowly getting better, I have my fingers crossed that it will continue to do so.

I actually maybe should not have said anything about that one, in my entire post I sort of feel guilty about criticizing the content. Anet has beautiful graphics and the visuals they release are great, the jumping puzzles keep me very entertained are are main reason I play this game so much. I just am bum hurt that there isn’t any progress based content, but the type of content they release I understand is still content suited for a very huge majority of players.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

1) Gear and dps. Perhaps you like to get every last ounce of power out of your builds, and that’s fine; however, not everyone plays that way. Some people lack the timing needed to dodge (unless the skill has a massive windup), some people don’t care if they aren’t getting all of the potential dps they could. Some people don’t give a rat’s kitten about the math. So they use other stats. Some people only play alone out in the open world and prefer condition spiking. It’s their right to choose. That’s the beauty of the game. We can opt to faceroll through with straight dps, or we can play condition, or we can team up with someone and run more towards support, while the other person does the majority of the damage. There is no cut and dry “you must run this.” Honestly, if you are bothered by the fact that someone else chooses to use a different gear, then don’t play with them, that’s your choice. Create or join a guild of all zerkers, and only play with them, then you are with like minded individuals. Let the rest of us do our own thing when it comes to gear and builds. As long as we aren’t interfering with your play, you shouldn’t have anything to complain about.

2) Skills….. again with feeling the need to always do max damage, and just facerolling through the game. I’m glad that’s fun for you, but its not for everyone else necessarily. I do admit that some skills need some tweaking, some adjustments. Nothing is ever perfect when it comes to balancing skills. I honestly doubt that its truly possible to ever complete balance a game’s skills, but that’s beside the point. Where was I, oh yes, sure you take a dps hit for some weapons if you use the other skills, but generally the additional perks from those other skills are useful. Short bow for example, skill 4 cripples. If you need to kite them, slowing them down is helpful. Skill 5 is a stun, which is great if you need a moment for a breather, or if you’re saving someone else’s kitten. Skill 3 allows me to put some space between me and my foe is he gets in too close, allowing me to get out of harms way, which is handy if I’ve exhausted my dodges for the time being. This skill has saved me on a couple of occasions where I’d simply over aggroed and didn’t have enough dodges to avoid all the hard blows. Does it knock down my overall dps a bit, sure. Handy, in the right situations, yeah. It’s not all about dps for everyone. Anyone can dps to their hearts content, anyone can learn a rotation and then follow it like a brain dead hamster. Not everyone can utilize additional functionality to keep their sorry butts (or someone elses’) alive when the situation arises.

Yes, you can argue (validly) that if you kill them fast enough, you don’t have to worry about getting hit, or whatever. However, this goes back to, its not all about facerolling through the content for everyone. For some people, killing the foe in 2 hits just is not fun. They desire more to their combat than just letting the auto attack go while they watch tv.

1. Well, as I said, I mostly want to argue the extreme cases were one person does 4k dps and another 600. Being a ranger you have no reason not to go berserk since your at range, range by it self does less damage then melee and some people opt to go range while being tanky. I have no problem with the medium you describe, lets say power/precision/toughness – you get good amount of damage, you might not get one shot and you can melee and swap to range if you get low on hp. Thats smart play, I won’t call it skillful but it is smart enough and thats still very good.

2. Well, the ranger was mostly an example, if your on a boss in a dungeon as a ranger very often you can just click 1 and then afk, if the boss is not on you, then pressing 2-5 will be a dps loss because of attacks hitting for same damage but slower, so your rotation is 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1. My argument there is not getting the most of your rotation by not pressing buttons, but the fact that there isn’t many buttons for pressing, making it boring. Still, you are right, those skills are useful if you need to kite. As I mentioned above, melee does more damage, and ranger 1h sword kills for damage, but its only a chasing weapon, player has little control during those auto attacks, he can swap targets for leaps but he can’t move during the auto attack 2 and 3. I have touched up on the fact that you need an easier way to cancel you attack animation cause it often kills people, thats why I never see 1h sword in dungeons, most melee rangers go 2h.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

‘I am not judging people who are forced to go celestial because of drops’

I do have a question. When did the game start forcing people to use drops as gear. I was under the impression that you could use any gear you wanted. If we must use gear that drops, how is it some people have berzerker gear? I haven’t had a full set drop for me. Not that I would be interested in one.

Well, I am obviously talking ascended peaces. You wanna use them because of infusion to reduce agony damage. For a while I had a ring that was power/precision/crit/vitality. That vitality bonus did little for me but the ring gave me 10 agony resistance. Now they introduced ascended weapons as drops, the stat increase is minimalistic and you won’t use it for the skin probably, but it will get you 5/10 more ar. Do you remember that karka shell backpeace? Power/condition damage/healing I think, back then not every one could afford ar back peace, so they used it in fractals.

Marnick, common sense in video games is “the set up does not matter, what matters is interaction”. Allow me to just talk about my play style a bit just so you would see how I play. I am a guardian, the first week of release I came up with a build I still use.

I got 30 points in a talent tree that said applying boons heals you. I added 15 in a another that allows my F1 to reset on kills and blind mobs in aoe. 5 in another so that same f1 would apply around 12 boons every time I press it. The outcome is that every time 1 mob dies I heal for around 2k and prevent next attack of mobs. I supplemented it by using weapons that apply boons, the little circles on the grounds guardians place. You can invest remaining 20 points in talents to allow those circles to heal as a their own source. Now I can place a symbol with my mace and it will have 3 healing sources, their own, boons = heals, and the healing boon it gives. Best use is using a hammer who places them on auto attack as well as providing best boon you got, 30% damage reduction 100% of the time.

My post argued the interaction of stats, less power less use from crit, less crit less use from crit damage, less toughness = less use from healing/vit, even condition damage interacts well with precision. Some games have soft caps and that becomes really hard to work around and its no sin to not be aware of it. But in gw2 scenario they made it very simplistic.

Eurhetemec.9052:

Ventrue.5731:

No one is judging that sort of activity. Your a casual player who doesn’t do any content were people have to depend on your performance to succeed, so you don’t hurt any one. The first paragraph of my post mostly talks about how 1 person in a group does 4k dps while another 600, if your not in a group then your not part of the problem anyways. And I did say that a stupid person would PICK celestial, there are as I mention people who are forced to use it since they got it as a drop. The bottom line is that you are just giving up a hole bunch of useful stats for stats that give you almost 0 benefit.

You are, actually, judging him and a whole lot of other players, because you are apparently suggesting that being “in a group” in GW2 is equivalent to being in a fairly serious raiding guild in WoW, which is obviously nonsense. If that’s not what you mean, you need to be more clear, because you are failing to express yourself.

Also, your Zerker vs Celestial example is terrible. The same player, using the same weapons, with the same traits, utilities, and using gear of the same tier, will not be THAT far behind Zerker. We’re probably talking say, 4k DPS vs 2.5k DPS, not the 4k DPS vs 0.6k DPS you seem to be thinking is happening.

In the end, GW2 isn’t WoW, and that’s a good thing, because if you want to play WoW, not only is there WoW, there are literally dozens of imitators, almost all of whom offer the style of railroaded gearing you suggest.

In general the problem with GW2 is that PvE is too Zerker-friendly, rather than it fails to railroad players into Zerker. If they are going to fix something, they should fix the former, not the institute way to do the latter.

I am not judging people who are forced to go celestial because of drops, I am indeed judging all those who take useless stats. The ones who take power/thougness/vit I ain’t judging ether, I just am upset that the game forces them do play like that. As far as 4k dps vs 0.6, I did not say thats on celestial. Take off offensive talents and go hit a dummy in lions arch, it will be damage based only on your power from gear, you will hit around 600 with auto attacks, put on berserker gear and offensive talents and you will hit 4k’s on mobs that can be crit (btw, I get 100% crit chance so I sort of did not worry about the fact that its a chance at 4k).

marnick.4305:

I am simply not interested in that nonsense. Celestial allows me to not do calculations. I’m doing plenty of those during the day. Come on … if you spend your day fixing complicated stuff from customers, calculating integrals and 3D models by hand to find the error … do you have any idea how tired your brain becomes by doing tgat … do you really expect me to waste even more of that energy and intelligence on a videogame? Isn’t that a bit far fetched.

I do not want to be in a raiding guild. I do not want to play WoW. Maybe, just maybe, that’s exactly why I play GW2 … in celestial gear.

That’s not to say I don’t like more difficult games in my free time, but that’s more in the realms of chess and triathlon. Those demand far greater concentration and endurance than ever necessary in WoW or GW2. So again, why would I waste that energy when there’s superior ways to stimulate my brain. To me, videogames are just that … videogames.

Ok, what you said before was sort of understandable, but now you say some thing like that? Oh wow, thats just amazing. Let me get this straight.

I assume you see how a warrior can benefit from stats like power, precision, critical damage as well as the fact they are multipliers. Precision increases the effectiveness of power by 150%, adding crit damage lets you further multiply you power damage, then you can also add about 30% damage from talents that say do 10% damage while —-. This isn’t even hard to comprehend, with celestial you get over all more stats but those same stats are less valuable. 3 × 3 × 3 = 27 but 2 × 2 × 2 x 2 =16, even though you have more stats they interact at lesser capacity. Not to mention, that healing or condition damage might be a 100% pointless stat for you.

What amazes me the most is that you think that this is heavy calculations and not common sense, the fact that you would need to dwell in to spending bunch of time researching it and that would not be fun. The reason people take power/toughness/vitality was my biggest issue because its a turtle build, but it still is correct in that regard, with toughness your affective health is much larger.

You also talked lather about dead zerkers doing less damage. As engineer you mostly ranged, by default you should have more leisure to go squishier to do more damage. And a berserk warrior who dies but hits 35k with hundred blades would still be more use then some one who goes tanky and uses range. But the most important part is that he gets to learn how to survive a lot easier, he’s mistakes cost him so he gets to improved. Don’t play games easy mode, put it on hard mode and you will do better.
My argument does work on the part that I have to play with people like you. I have not done higher level fractals because all my friends have quit the game so I am forced to pug, I have had runs with 3 berserker warriors and those last least 3 times as less on average, but then you get those really tanky teams were they don’t do enough damage to make it quick, but obviously bosses still one shot them so it doesn’t help them being tanky.

You first made good valid arguments, but with this you just lacked common sense.

marnick.4305:

Ventrue.5731:

I could talk ages about the ALL STAT combination items, but I don’t think thats a problem in this game, no one is stupid enough to use those items or forced too (though if u get an ascended drop with all stats, too bad).

So I’m stupid then … not only that, but I was happy to get my celestial ring as a drop. Saved me 10 daily runs. Guess I could report you for calling me stupid.

Lets talk last thing, the community, I don’t mean to insult the average player, but over all our look at this game is pretty bad. Like I mentioned, too many people are defending bad players because “its ok to have fun and not be elitist”, I suppose gw2 is a casual game at that regard but just don’t go with it, try and play more risky to get better experience, it will be more fun.

Sorry mate but I work my kitten of for 10 hours a day. When I get home and boot GW2, I want to relax. I gear up celestial because I can do that relatively braindead (cause my job requires a lot of thinking) and still do reasonable damage.

That’s my idea of fun. Not putting in any effort and stay within easy zones such as Queensdale and particular bosses (Maw, Fire Elemental, Shatterer, certain dungeons). Your idea of fun might differ, but don’t judge me for relaxing after work. I don’t judge you for risky play either. I have respect for people who manage to do fotm48 and SAB tribulation mode but I also demand respect for having a job and contributing to society. Thank you very much.

No one is judging that sort of activity. Your a casual player who doesn’t do any content were people have to depend on your performance to succeed, so you don’t hurt any one. The first paragraph of my post mostly talks about how 1 person in a group does 4k dps while another 600, if your not in a group then your not part of the problem anyways. And I did say that a stupid person would PICK celestial, there are as I mention people who are forced to use it since they got it as a drop. The bottom line is that you are just giving up a hole bunch of useful stats for stats that give you almost 0 benefit.

Not a single point I made was even argued, I sort of assume people can’t argue with what is correct so they get bum hurt about it and retort with being upset about their game being bad. Seriously, there were few people who read it, but can any one have an argument that is valid? Mention a single thing I’ve told that is not correct about this game and then insult me.
Well I guess its too much, I would be upset too if people would point out faults of my game and I could not come up with a rational argument.

Wolfheart.1938:

I read the first two paragraphs and noticed that this doesn’t even take into account anything that’s not lolpve dps

I also covered controls and responsiveness, content, how they present difficulty and most importantly at the end – you, the player.
However the part you read tries to illustrate that arena net allows players to do some rly stupid things. I will use world of warcraft as an example here and people hate it, but this is a good example. In wow you won’t get in to a good raiding guild if your stats are incorrect, and that means things like haste softcap, prioritizing correct stat on gear selection, maybe you class needs 700 crit and above 800 would be a waste. If it would do things like gw2, it would be ok for dps to stack a hole bunch of stamina so they would survive longer. I’ve mentioned that in gw2 some dps do almost 10 times less, and thats not over exaduration when my warriors auto attacks with axe can be like 4k were some one hits 600 with a slow weapon.

SeNoZinD.9874:

Just a warning: most people don’t have long attention spans, (including me), so I highly suggest you have a tl:dr at the bottom or somewhere so people can leave opinions

I was going to read through it my self, to correct spelling, but then I saw how much I wrote so I figured I’ll pass… I’m pretty sure majority of players will just read a few lines and start defending gw2. I’m really looking forwards to some constructive responsive telling me why I’m wrong or some opinions that would say what else is wrong with the game.

4. Content, every 2 weeks we get some awesome content, yay! That cutthroat politics or what ever its called was awesome, the entire game play content was personal story mission and 2 minigames… I mean, I played mmo’s before, I remember being excited over content patches, but most of gw2 ones are few minigames and maybe a jumping puzzle… Don’t get me wrong, I love jumping puzzles, the Halloween tower thing, I’ve completed that over 30 times and it did not get boring, and this super adventure box, figuring out what kills you in that hard mode was worth the hours, fun. But, besides the adventure box, besides the jumping puzzles is mostly just some horrible mini games and some lame story.

5. The responsiveness and controls, lets talk that, I often do some thing and I am not sure of the outcome, if I dodge before third auto attack I might dodge on spot, if i hit a skill and swap weapons while using ability I could get animation stuck, if I leap I can hit invisible wall or bounce back from a wall. Even the jump, the jump is horrible, its way too animated instead of being commitment based were you jump – always same outcome. I do jumping puzzles a lot, love them mastered the dodge jump, and got very use to the jump that it doesn’t bother me, but I am just aware that its poorly made, most people won’t notice it though so I will just get flamed for saying this. But the list of how bad controls are still go on, for example, if your a warrior ( I mentioned warrior a lot, I am actually main guardian, though I also got max lv warrior, ranged, thief) try doing hundred blades and then dodging afterwards, and I am pretty sure when you used f1 skill on axe, you knew you are gonna die because you won’t be able to cancel the animation and boss is already charging some thing strong. There should really be a way you could animation cancel apart from weapon swap.

6. Lets talk last thing, the community, I don’t mean to insult the average player, but over all our look at this game is pretty bad. Like I mentioned, too many people are defending bad players because “its ok to have fun and not be elitist”, I suppose gw2 is a casual game at that regard but just don’t go with it, try and play more risky to get better experience, it will be more fun. Then the defending, we have to really point out the wrongs about the game so they will get fixed. I see a hole bunch of comments on arenanet facebook/youtube/forums that just point out flaws and they ether get flamed by fanboys same as I bet this post will get, or gets deleted. When anet first releases a new video or puts some thing on facebook u can see hole bunch of harsh things being put, but lather its not there, its all nice comments, even the constructive criticism seems to get removed. And people who point out flaws often get told to go play wow.

I could still talk about so many things like talents, condition damage (free tip for ya condition damage warriors, if your berserk then your bow f1 will do FAR more damage then any condition spec would have with burn damage), the existence of pointless classes (rangers), reward system, crafting, economy, crafting, content progression, IN COMBAT MOVEMENT and a lot more, but thats enough for now little ones.

Now I know you are all angry at me, but these are flaws that need to be constantly pointed out so that the game would get some massive rework, you are now free to insult me, I promise to read all the offensive comments even though I easily bruise.
Btw, I don’t plan to pre-read this so sorry for any spelling mistakes.

Hello every one, I wanted to share my opinion on some poor designs of this game.

I suppose I should edit in a summary page since I wrote so much…

1. gear/dps
2. skills
3. mechanics
4. content
5. controls
6. community

1. The most important part is the stat combinations, especially some thing like power/toughness/vitality while using no offensive talents and maybe even using a ranged weapon. In that scenario the person would be dealing bout 500-600 damage per hit. A berserker warrior with bunch of might stacks (greatsword crits generates might very fast so its expected) will do 35k (30-40k) hundred blades, then maybe whirlwind and swap to 4k hitting axe just for auto attacks. Now I know the idea of the game was that every one will have their own style of play, and some guardians want to be tanky and indeed with 0/15/30/20/5 build they can just stand still and take hits from any boss while healing for 2k every sec, and sentimentalist or warrior can burst heal a party up, and those players do bring loads of use. But when I see a warrior just standing at rage auto attacking and doing 0 damage… Its extreme scenarios like that were people do almost 10 times less damage that I think its bad game design. With recount people would realize the fact of how useless they can be if they aren’t healing, aren’t soaking or preventing damage but just providing team with their poor damage but you know, they don’t die at all, not to mention it would help people to learn effective rotations (even gw1 has a recount on a dummy to allow people to see what works). Every one wants a berserker warrior in their party, but its taboo to blame people for not being berserker, would be intruding on right to play the game like they want to play it, cause there is no correct way to play it right? There is only the way you enjoy the game. Call me elitist but I enjoy getting the most out of my ability, in mmo’s you could say not every one might realize best rotation, or be able to hit every global while being aware of whats happening, but knowledge of how to build your char? But its not the player to blame, guild wars 2 difficulty is based around one shots, it is hard to blame people when they go berserk thief with very little hp who might be skillful enough to dodge red circles that would one shot him, but dies to auto attacks that one shot him, he is forced to maybe pick up some vitality and have as much hp as warrior but then why not roll the warrior instead?
I could talk ages about the ALL STAT combination items, but I don’t think thats a problem in this game, no one is stupid enough to use those items or forced too (though if u get an ascended drop with all stats, too bad).

2. Lets talk skills! Arenanet had great concept on skills, you skills are situational, not just more damage but on cool down, but in fact, they do less damage then auto attack and often have no use, if your axe warrior your safe bet not to use any skills but auto attack, sure you miss out on giving your allies 4% damage buff but the skill will do so much less damage because of delay then auto attack that its less damage over all. Short bow ranger? – Instant dps loss if u use skills 2-5. I could mention so many skills that you could just play the game with out ever using them.

3. Lets go back to one shot mechanics, we all remember scavengers in AC, broken beyond belief, they would charge, then leap while instantly changing direction, some times even if you dodge it u will get stunned at range, if you have immortality skill like endure pain, it would brake the stun, instantly re-apply the stun if u would not instantly dodge afterwards, then u would take no damage for 4 seconds and still die after it ends. If you dodged the stun, you could still walk in to and it would take affect. Champion scavenger would kill u in a single tick. They have now replaced it with an ability I actually think is worse… But anyways, the difficulty of this game often is just hard hitting mobs that one shot you even if you play at your best, I don’t die too often, I mean, we all adapt, we know what to expect of this game, but when I know how it works I just think of so many ways of how much it could be improved, I mean neverwinter mobs had great red circles and did not one shot you. Oh yea, red circles, harpy fractal, the pyramid one, those harpies shoot balls that knock you back and if your in the middle of the platform you don’t even see the circle, mid-air kripple slows your speed? Maybe they expected us to do it while dodge jumping.