Guild Wars 2

The only way to solve zerging is to divide keep/ tower capture rewards by the number of people that capture it.

Hi. I agree with what you’re trying to achieve but think there is a better mechanic, one that already exists.

If server numbers were even and points mattered, everyone would defend for the vast majority of the time. It makes far more strategic sense to defend upgraded stuff at all costs and only risk an attack if you’re not going to lose something. This is just because of the reality that it’s harder to attack than defend, numbers even.

The mechanic is fixable if numbers were even and PPT (matchup points) mattered. I think these two problems could be resolved at once by giving rewards for your server winning or coming second in a matchup, but dividing the rewards by server population so it pays more to be in a lower population server. I expect this to normalise server populations pretty quickly.

So it really saddens me that people are have to come up with these new mechanics because the Anet mechanic is so broken. We mustn’t lose hope that Anet wont fix it though!

The one thing everyone has in common in WvW is that they want to be successful in some sense. Being tactical, winning open field fights, holding stuff, getting t7 mats….

Make the only rewards be based on your server’s position at the end of the matchup, but divide the reward by the server size (to even out server populations).

This way people who like defending are helping just as much as people who are attacking. People who are putting down siege in clever spots, upgrading stuff and escorting yaks are helping just as much as people who are open field fighting or capturing stuff. Best of all everyone will get even rewards and equal pride if their server does well.

Sure, there will be free riders, but if the whole server slacks then no one gets any rewards, just like with all team sports.

Link paid rewards to one aspect of the game and what do you expect when that’s all the game becomes (well I expected better but have been proven wrong).

Bloodwort MacFangho.4638:

I’m confused reading this thread…fix various issues in WvW – primarily skill lag.

Skill lag was one of six issues I was addressing in my first post. Zergs and blobs are the cause of almost all the skill lag people suffer from, so to fix one you have to fix the other. I think if it was just a matter of fixing the code we wouldn’t be a year into the game with this problem still being here. EDIT: Devoncarver said yesterday:

“We are making strides to improve the skill lag, but it is a very large and very difficult problem to solve.”

I agree that limiting numbers with lower map caps would be a pretty poor solution, just because it is so artificial, annoying and detracts from the scale of the battles.

Shoe.5821:

if your five guys are taking a tower and ten guys happen along right as you bust in the door, they reduce your rewards by 2/3.

No they won’t. Anet already addressed the leechers problem by introducing the gold/silver/bronze badge reward system. Those people that rock up right as the door is going down would recieve bronze reward at best, which could be made to be an almost negligible share of the rewards. If this system is not perfect it wouldn’t be hard to tweak.

Shoe.5821:

I thought the best solutions were to give event credit (or at least WXP) to everyone on the map. that way there is less incentive to zerg for the sake of rewards.

I like this idea somewhat but would it mean you would get way more rewards for playing on your server’s prime time. This would result in even bigger coverage issues for most servers. That is why I said to also give a reward to each player for their server’s place at the end of the matchup, divided by server size.

Glad to see so many thoughtful responses.

Quite a few people suggested that dividing rewards by players would reduce server-wide cooperation. I really don’t think it will….

Anyone can cap a sentry. A camp can be soloed by a good player. Haven’t heard of a tower be capped by a single player but it might be possible on a dead map…. You get the point- just put enough honey at the top of the tree and people will work together to get it if that is the only way. Guilds with sufficient numbers on may shun ‘pubs’ from raiding with them and taking some of the reward, but are you telling me that guilds love non-guildies running with them now?

Quite a few people suggested a stat buff for lower numbers or a debuff for higher numbers. The problem I see with this is that it would make things seem that bit less realistic and, I’d argue, rewarding, especially if you win against bigger numbers. I think if you win against bigger numbers you deserve to know you earned it fair and square.

I agree with the removal of waypoints suggestion, but think it wouldn’t alter how servers played unless the scores were very close which, unfortunately (because of the uneven populations) they rarely are.

For those that said it’s just about organisation, I respectfully disagree. There comes a point where the numbers are so uneven that even if virtually the entire borderlands is on mumble/ teamspeak etc and all WvW veterans they simply cannot overcome the numbers difference.

I’m not saying that server / fight / coverage numbers should always be even. I’m fully aware that this could never happen. All I’m saying is that if you/ your group or guild / your server wins a fight or matchup or captures or defends something because of better skill facing uneven numbers then that should be rewarded accordingly. Any transfers of players to lower-population servers in search of greater rewards in response to this would be a bonus.

Top 5 WvW Problems and Solutions

1. Numbers trouncing skill.
Solution: Divide the rewards for doing stuff by the number of players in the group. (Source: real life). How this could be implemented:

- In-game: The drop from a player is divided by the number of people that tag him/her. Rewards for capturing objectives are divided by the number of players that capture them.

- Overall: Give a significant gold/ WXP bonus for winning a matchup that is divided by the entire server.

2. Uneven matchups, but correct matchups become boring over time.
Solution: Remove match randomisation. Tiers will naturally change around more as servers pick weeks to go for the overall gold/WXP bonus.

3. Skill lag.
Solution: Will be corrected by solution to 1. Since it is both less lucrative to run in a zerg and less lucrative to be in a high population server, people will transfer/ sign up to lower tier servers.

4. Karma trains.
Solution: Will be corrected by 1.

5. Winning/ losing a matchup being meaningless.
Solution: Will be corrected by 1.

(Preemptive) 6. Server stat bonus from holding an objective.
Solution: This makes no sense and will trivialise everything else in wvw.