Showing Posts For Vyxion.6358:
Also, FT and SD are not mutually exclusive. You could just combine them you know I did that pre-patch with my firestorm build (guide for it on forum) but I haven’t looked at it yet since patch because I’m too busy IRL.
%dmg increasers never apply to conditions (example: sigil of force doesn’t do it either). This one is no different, it’s direct damage only.
If this is true then we got the laziest lamest and least gamechanging changes out of EVERYONE else. Just a bunch of cd changes?? Come on
I’m definitely looking forward to this. Though if a warrior is able to remove conditions before he bursts (as their post suggests), this is going to make GC warrior the new king of sustained spike. Though a GC stealth burst thief will also still do well I imagine, at least at the opening (which is usually the closing as well)
:)Is this a real post? What does “sustained spike” even mean?
There’s no such thing…
Please Arena net do what you did in Guild Wars 1. Make a PvE skill & PvP skill. seperate the two. My suggestion is to make one for PvP, another for WvW, and another for PvE.
Do not merge WvW & PvE. They are entirely different.Example: As for Elementalist (I do not main one) but I saw this change that brought frustration to many PvE elems. Ride the lightning was nerfed from 1500 to 1200 in all types. This is a great change for PvP & maybe WvW, but keep it for PvE.
tl;dr Make separate skill changes for PvE/WvW/PvE.
Pretty sure this was intended to be 1200 in the first place
It fits the thief because it is a shadow condition. Who else than a necro or thief would this fit? No idea why people complain it doesn’t fit the thief when this is the primary shadow-themed class in the game. I’m surprised the mesmer gets it too, doesn’t really fit with their light reflection theme and light fields etc but I suppose they indeed did need an extra condition.
Just like thieves need more conditions to make condi thief viable. Currently all a condi thief does is stack bleeds and this is simply not viable neither in pve nor pvp. This torment might change some things but I’m not judging till I see patchnotes AND play.
And please don’t complain about backstab thieves or acro sword thieves now becoming OP with torment. Makes you look silly because those are powerbuilds while torment is a condition. Let that sink in for a minuteMes has one Light Field (and given the other was a bugged tooltip there’s a good question as to whether this was intentional) so I’m not sure where you’re getting the Mes = Light thing from.
Considering pretty much all their spells seem to have light reflection animations to them. Guess you missed that.
Everything a mesmer casts has light emitting prisms or butterflies coming out of it. And some stuf resembles the workings of mirrors.
This is how I got the mesmer = light thing.
It fits the thief because it is a shadow condition. Who else than a necro or thief would this fit? No idea why people complain it doesn’t fit the thief when this is the primary shadow-themed class in the game. I’m surprised the mesmer gets it too, doesn’t really fit with their light reflection theme and light fields etc but I suppose they indeed did need an extra condition.
Just like thieves need more conditions to make condi thief viable. Currently all a condi thief does is stack bleeds and this is simply not viable neither in pve nor pvp. This torment might change some things but I’m not judging till I see patchnotes AND play.
And please don’t complain about backstab thieves or acro sword thieves now becoming OP with torment. Makes you look silly because those are powerbuilds while torment is a condition. Let that sink in for a minute
I’m starting to get rather frustrated by the anti-thief bias on the forums.
Torment is a condition, when was the last time you saw a condition build thief?
It’s not gonna be dangerous coming from a backstab thief or whatnot.
Personally I can’t remember when I last saw a condi thief. They are ALL direct damage build with myself included and do you want to know why? It’s because all a condition thief can do is stack bleeds. That is 1 condition which is only dangerous on high stacks and just gets cleansed before it gets dangerous anyway. And since bleed is the only condition you will have on you from a condition thief (bar the cripple if you didn’t move from caltrops) you didn’t even have to pray to the RNG gods to please remove the condition you wanted it to remove when you pressed a cleanser skill. Torment will give thieves finally a 2nd condition to use (hopefully) reliably which might still not be enough for condition thieves to become viable but I guess we’ll know more on this when we see the actual patchnotes.
PS. You are an ele mr.OP. If you are unable to keep clean from thief conditions (I just explained you how little we got) then I think this new condition named torment is the least of your problems.
I actually got 2 and I’m trying to get a 3rd. Farming southsun to the max -_-
1st ticket from 1st crate, 2nd ticket on 40th or so crate.
Awesome, glad to see what you’ve put together make it’s way to the official forums.
I’ve cross referenced your thread with my sPVP FT thread.
We should get together and hash out the EG builds in sPVP, so that people have access to all the information.
Sure! I’m not as well versed at sPvP as I am WvW and PvE, but it is a kit I think is very under-represented and should be worked into popularity.
I’m not a fan of the 10explosive trait incediary powder because it does almost nothing when you are firing on multiple targets at once. It will burn 1 target and not the rest thanks to that cooldown. For single target it’s pretty good though given there’s no people around you alrdy extending the burn duration in which case it again won’t really do much at all. That’s why in my firestorm build this trait was excluded in favor of 10 more tools traits but since your utility selection doesn’t favor SD I suppose that’s not much of an option either unless you want to combine kit speed with vigor on swiftness (I did that when I ran FT/EG).
My build when I ran FT/EG was 0-30-0-30-10 (for more critdmg, shorter toolbelt cd’s, swiftness on kit combined with vigor trait in alchemy so i can dodge more) though you probably saw that coming by now after all I said before
Ofcourse I now run 0-30-0-20-20 but that’s an entirely different build you visited my topic for already
How do you think your build compares to my FT SD build (firestorm) ?Would i be wrong in my assessment that I would be doing more dmg but you have more supporting options for your party?
Well, I’m sure 10 Tools is a viable alternative, but I always prefer flat buffs to my damage than random chance.
Running Incendiary Powder I’m pretty much guaranteed to maintain Burning on targets, meaning I will always have a 10% damage boost to Flame Jet. 10 Explosives is also an additional 100 Power to my setup, which elevates my DPS across the board—not just when I crit.
And yeah: That’s about how I’d slice it in terms of difference between this and your Static Discharge setup.
Alright then
hahaha guess i’m not the only one afraid of necro! must be an engi thing! being bleed, poison, chilled, and burn while feared will be “fun”
necro’s actually the only class that can’t inflict burning. i mained an engi for the longest of times, and quite frankly i’m a little disappointed at the reaction of the eng community.
Care to explain to me how my thief is gonna apply burn on a target?
Ye you steal that from mobs immune to fire… <_< so that’s hardly a reliable source of burning. (ps. they lay around on the floor in those areas too, a necro could just pick one up if this silly rock is your idea of reliable burning application)
hahaha guess i’m not the only one afraid of necro! must be an engi thing! being bleed, poison, chilled, and burn while feared will be “fun”
necro’s actually the only class that can’t inflict burning. i mained an engi for the longest of times, and quite frankly i’m a little disappointed at the reaction of the eng community.
Care to explain to me how my thief is gonna apply burn on a target?
I’m not a fan of the 10explosive trait incediary powder because it does almost nothing when you are firing on multiple targets at once. It will burn 1 target and not the rest thanks to that cooldown. For single target it’s pretty good though given there’s no people around you alrdy extending the burn duration in which case it again won’t really do much at all. That’s why in my firestorm build this trait was excluded in favor of 10 more tools traits but since your utility selection doesn’t favor SD I suppose that’s not much of an option either unless you want to combine kit speed with vigor on swiftness (I did that when I ran FT/EG).
My build when I ran FT/EG was 0-30-0-30-10 (for more critdmg, shorter toolbelt cd’s, swiftness on kit combined with vigor trait in alchemy so i can dodge more) though you probably saw that coming by now after all I said before
Ofcourse I now run 0-30-0-20-20 but that’s an entirely different build you visited my topic for already
How do you think your build compares to my FT SD build (firestorm) ?
Would i be wrong in my assessment that I would be doing more dmg but you have more supporting options for your party?
So they’re going out of their way to make a broken mechanic even more broken. How about fixing the bugs rather than breaking things even more. Having two functions on the same key DOES NOT WORK. There’s an reason other games don’t do it. It’s stupid, irrational and frankly almost unbelievable.
WoW does right click targeting and camera roll in 1 button (right click) too and it has always worked flawlessly without a single complaint. So…
Nice detailed math on the comparison of the raw dmg from dart spam vs hip shot spam.
About the sigil.
EG(PS) would be using Sigil of Strength and Sigil of Force while the optimal sigil choice for rifle would probably be air or fire (but then be bad for the build during the use of a FT but since the rifle isn’t even an option during FT-use let’s just say it has fire or air in it).
This means that the EG with P/S definitely has a clear sigil advantage.
Considering the EG also pretty much doubletaps from might stacks due to it’s hybrid damage application it’s a very strong sigil for that kit. And sigil of force is just a flat 5% dmg increase which is always nice.
But there’s more:
Target the maimed would have a guaranteed 100% uptime with an EG firing at the target so that’s another 5% dmg boost the rifle has not (the rifle would be completely dependent on sharpshooter procs for this trait to affect its damage. While surely this doesn’t give the EG another 5% advantage (since it will be active on occasions for the rifle too) i would estimate this trait giving about 1-2% damage boost to the rifle on a rough guess so that comes down to this trait putting an extra 3% in advantage of the EG.
With these 2 steps the EG would be gaining 10% dmg while the Rifle gains 2%.
Considering the fact the EG with PS would have might stacks, the sharpshooter procced bleeds would be doing more dmg than the sharpshooter proc bleeds of the rifle but this is a minor comment and I don’t want to really take it into the equation. Still a point to mention of course.
The difference should definitely be getting smaller with this added data in the equation but the rifle would still be ahead, I hadn’t denied that though.
When the target can heal however, the EG(P/S) wins hard because of poison application (can count that as a 30% dmg increase for the entire party). But that’s situational (target would be able to heal) while this whole scenario is already situational (not being able to FT the fight, almost never happens).
So the difference should be smaller than what your math showed but since the rifle in this scenario can only auto attack while the other option offers so much. The EG(P/S) would just still win for me, and not by a small margin but I suppose you agree on that.
Same, got mail the dungeon was up so i went and got no reward
That’s all well and good, but if you would actually read my posts instead of just glancing over them looking for keywords you would see that I was very clear both times.
In a crit damage build (assertion from the OP), the rifle does quite a bit more damage at range than the elixir gun. And it was directed at Phineas Poe who asserted:
If you need to fight from range, use the Elixir Gun and spam Tranquilizer Dart. It does more damage than both Hip Shot and Explosive Shot, and additionally applies Weakness to every target you hit with it.
Which is patently untrue, and I wanted to be sure that readers would understand that point. I posted all the information needed to do the damage calculation yourselves as to not inundate you with a wall of numbers.
Use the elixir gun, use Pistol/Shield… I use both daily. Yes they have more utility and options, yes they are fantastic for conditions, yes more survival… I didn’t disagree with ANY OF THAT. I was merely stating that from a raw DPS standpoint, rifle #1 is better and is intended to be so.
Don’t make me break out my slide rule.
Talk about glancing over someone’s post…. I actually agreed to it doing more damage than dart spam in my post (though marginal, the difference isn’t as big as u make it sound, specially thanks to deadly mixture and the vast availability of might stacks in this build and the double sigil advantage).
But there’s more to having to fall back to a long range weapon because of certain situations than purely raw damage and that’s why i made the post about all the other sides to the story causing the EG(P/S) to triumph over the rifle quite hard for me.
Also, i know what’s in the OP post, I wrote it :P
This guy knows his stuf! Glad to have you on my side on this one, couldn’t have said it better myself
He’s also writing it in a situation that would exemplify an auto attack designed to cripple (figuratively) a single target over a raw damage attack.
Since they have the same speed, let’s just look at it like this:
5 seconds of bleeding (we’ll say 5 since reasonable condition duration extension, etc) – 60 damage per second, that’s 300 damage. So they’re about on par.Except that’s discounting critical hits, which can more than double the damage of any given crit. So, ~2.6x the power scaling with typical berserker gear, begins to put a considerable difference on such damage output. Not saying his numbers are wrong, but I am saying there’s a bit of intentional misrepresentation going on.
Exactly this. OP was talking about a crit build, which is what the rifle is made for. In my post I clearly differentiate and discuss how crits vs condition build would compare with each weapon.
If you are running Rabid armor or something even less likely to crit, like Apothecary, then EG will have it ALL OVER the rifle. But with decent crit potential, hip shot will do more DPS in any reasonable power/crit damage build easily.
What’s more, it’s an auto attack. However, if you would like to show me numbers where condition damage would overtake critical damage in this build in calculated DPS, including things like Rabid gear vs. Rampager vs. Berserker, I would be happy to have that discussion and we can show our work.
And once again, I reiterate that I use both depending on the situation, and am quite sure about my math on this, whether you think those coefficients are wrong or not. I would be more than happy to test and report anything we have discussed here, if only for future users of both weapons to be sure which would be more useful by situation.
No the problem is that the rifle is now being discussed for the situations where a boss or situation would require us to fire from a range far beyond the reach of FT.
Since the rifle only offers an auto attack in this situation the equation would be the rifle’s raw dmg vs the EG’s added utility and for me the EG then wins.
But there’s more:
The EG is a Kit, not a weapon. When you use the EG in a case like this you still also have the pistol/shield so you would also have reflect and block (from range, the block does not stop after 1 hit, that’s only in melee) added on top of the EG utilities. You could do EG+Rifle i suppose but the rifle, again, does damage on that range.
So what do the options have?
Rifle:
- slight advantage on dmg on the range
(That’s it, rest is short/medium range usage)
EG (P/S)
- still got 2 sigils
- light field
- heals
- debuffs
- bouncing attack with condition spread on EG2
- weakness on auto
- bleed on auto
- condition cleanser and poison on EG3
- reflect/blast finisher on PS4
- Block/double daze on PS5
- confusion/blind bounce on PS3
- Poison on PS2
EG(Rifle)
- more dmg in rifle but during it no weakness or bleed from EG auto, can’t have both at same time
- light field
- heals
- debuffs
- bouncing attack with condition spread on EG2
- condition cleanser and poison on EG3
Now when you see this
For me, the EG(PS) wins HARD because situations where you are pushed to far range pratically always put a high demand on utilities.
So yeah, the rifle might have better dps (small margin) but look at the cost of lost utilities.
In my opinion the cost is too high.
So when the situation arrises where I am forced to longrange I will swap the FT to an EG and keep the P/S equipped alongside it.
This guy knows his stuf! Glad to have you on my side on this one, couldn’t have said it better myself
He’s also writing it in a situation that would exemplify an auto attack designed to cripple (figuratively) a single target over a raw damage attack.
Since they have the same speed, let’s just look at it like this:
5 seconds of bleeding (we’ll say 5 since reasonable condition duration extension, etc) – 60 damage per second, that’s 300 damage. So they’re about on par.Except that’s discounting critical hits, which can more than double the damage of any given crit. So, ~2.6x the power scaling with typical berserker gear, begins to put a considerable difference on such damage output. Not saying his numbers are wrong, but I am saying there’s a bit of intentional misrepresentation going on.
Why do u quote only the first part of my post while the second part was in fact a lot more important ? :O
Looks OK, any leap or blast finisher on #2 would make pistol/pistol a more viable weapon set.
This was my suggestion on an earlier post on the Thief forums:
Skill name: Recoil
Skill description: Recoil backwards from your foe, crippling them:
Cost: 3 initiative
Damage: 168
Cripple: 2s
Combo Finisher: Leap
Range: 600It would basically work exactly the same as #3 on shortbow (in fact I wouldn’t care if it had the same animation) but it would be a leap finisher and wouldn’t have an evade – so you can combo Black Powder + Leap to gain stealth from the pistol/pistol weapon set:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Disabling_Shot_%28thief_shortbow_skill%29
Your change would be far too similar to P/D3 though
Now the above source calculates the activation times at .33 for TD
Well, that’s definitely wrong.
Hip Shot and Tranquilizer Dart have roughly the same exact activation time.
As to the Rifle versus the Elixir Gun when at range:
Damage is calculated by taking Weapon Damage and multiplying that by a percentage of the player’s Power (depending on the skill) and dividing the result by the target’s Armor value.
Let’s say that Hip Shot’s coefficient is 65% and Tranquilizer Dart’s is 40%. It’s probably the most accurate guess and I don’t really feel like taking the time to make certain it’s 100% precise, because the point can be made with these numbers.
My Engineer, with a 10/30/0/30/0 setup, in Berserker gear minus a Celestial amulet has 1985 Power and 354 Condition Damage.
Non-crit, my Hip Shot, against a target of 2600 Armor, will then do 597 damage.
Non-crit, my Tranq Dart, against a target of the same 2600 Armor, will do 295 damage.You might say “wtf,” but the Elixir Gun also applies Bleeding damage. With 354 Condition Damage, this rounds out to 60 damage per second per stack. With only 5 stacks of Bleed, which is relatively easy to sustain on the target, you will more than cover the damage difference of Hip Shot.
More importantly: the Rifle’s most powerful skills—Blunderbuss and Jump Shot—must be done from close range: 400 range or less, to be exact. But this whole conversation was about if you’re being forced to fight at range, where then these skills are useless to you.
Elixir F, however, has a range of 900. It also scales by 75% of your Power value, so it does a pretty considerable amount of damage and will jump around to hit multiple targets (including an enemy, an ally, and then back to your enemy). You will simultaneously be applying both Cripple and Weakness (through Tranq Dart) while still having access to the supportive utility of the kit like Super Elixir and Fumigate removing conditions while dealing the same if not more damage.
Therefore,
Tranquilizer Dart + Elixir F > Hip Shot
This guy knows his stuf! Glad to have you on my side on this one, couldn’t have said it better myself
PS. and ofcourse EG adds utility like weakness as well where rifle on that range (because the hypothesis in this scenario is being pushed to far range) doesn’t really do anything except auto attack.
Anyone?
Personally I would love this ofcourse :P
I realized hoe much I miss the FT. I constantly like to change builds and sets… but this is getting really annoying. Arena net didn’t implement a template possibility so I decided to build a second Engineer. It’s the biggest and fattest Norn model available and he will rule the dungeon tunnels with A ridiculously huge Flamethrower. The Charr will remain on SD.
Flamethrower users unite!
critical hits, hands down.
While in another topic debating the thief I thought of a suggestion for the thief pistol mainhand number 2 spell.
Here it is:
Pistol#2: Tracer Bullet (X Initiative)
Fires the pistol to the ground with an explosive tracer bullet while jumping straight up, evading enemy attacks for x/x second in the guise of the light emitted by the tracer bullet and burns up to 5 targets in X aoe range for Y seconds.
- X dmg
- X second evasion (probably like half a second? maybe a quarter?)
- Blast Finisher
- X second burn : (x dmg)
Your thoughts?
Here’s how i’d fix P/P.
- Make 2 into a leap back finisher that deals little to moderate damage.
- Give the vulnerability to unload. Make each shot apply one stack.
- Improve the firing rate of vital shot and change the bleed duration so it remains stable at 5 to 6 stacks.
This makes P/P better at both condition and direct damage. Because cripple and weakness not only help you kite but also help cover those bleeds so it won’t be removed so easily. The damage from unload will scale during the animation wich might lead people to think that spamming will be better, but if the vulnerability duration is short then the stack will last for only one or two activations making people worry more about getting all the shots than just spamming it.
Here’s just one combo you could with this set. Black Powder>Body Shot>Sneak Attack>Unload.
A leap on pistol mainhand would probably be too strong since P/D has a distancegainer too on P/D3. My vote would go to it being a blast finisher type of spell but then it can’t be shooting ranged at the target cuz it would break the P5>P2 stealth entry combo then. Since P/P also lacks an evasiontype spell maybe have Pistol2 be something like:
Pistol#2: Tracer Bullet (X Initiative)
Fires the pistol to the ground with an explosive tracer bullet while jumping straight up, evading enemy attacks for x/x second in the guise of the light emitted by the bullet shot. Tracer bullet burns up to 5 targets in X aoe range for Y seconds.
- X dmg
- X second evasion (probably like half a second? maybe a quarter?)
- Blast Finisher
- X second burn : (x dmg)
I just though of this and it would solve so many problems the pistol mainhand has.
It would add another condition to the condition thief portfolio, it would add synergy with P/X sets, it would give defense to P/X sets without giving something double.
ps. I like your idea on unload, it should do more than only straight up dps mediocrely. Either up the dmg or give it something extra, yeah.
edit: went off and created suggestion topic for my pistol idea
Support if you like it! https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Thief-Pistol-Mainhand-2-rework-suggestion/first#post2099800
(edited by Vyxion.6358)
U can use Sword 2 on the spot , activating the 2 parts in 0.5 sec and cleansing 1 condition .
Whats better for u ? Lying on the ground , or burn out some initiative ? :P6 months ago ago , i proposed in the Thief mega thread , that u can combine felline grace+ deathblosom+ uncatchable , creating a defensive thief spec , but ppl thought i was crazy
But Thats Handy Now ! (and no even a thank u !)
In ur place i wouldnt like to increase my character base damage
It will open a new devercity for sure , open new paths for hydrism , but in the same they will freely to neuter something in its place :P
Man seriously. That doesn’t happen in 0.5 seconds and it’s again a lot of initiative and you would have to run sword for it. And what if the condition cleanse on sword2 return picks other conditions to remove instead of immobilize? Then you are still screwed because immobilize-removal through teleportation really doesn’t work if you don’t actually port away from your spot with it. Sitting in immobilize with your sword out, you probably were in melee range. activating part 1 of sword2 would not move you, nor the return. So you would be entirely reliant on the conditioncleansing of that return which may or may not be in your favor at a high initiative cost if it’s all you used it for. Which is what you suggested. Sure it works, just like other options mentioned, but at what cost? Other classes don’t pay that much to remove immobilize while not being punished by it as much as us to begin with, THATS THE POINT I MADE.
Condition thief in tpvp is not viable, you can thank our boring traits for that.
Your last remark by the way made no sense whatsoever after I deciphered what you even said. Hastily posted?
Actually I don’t understand at all what you are trying to do here?
All this talk about 1 point I said (as an example mind you) of the bigger picture?
I’ld rather you replied about the big picture instead of nitpicking on a single example of a large post and then actually not even get the point of that example …
(edited by Vyxion.6358)
U can use Shadowstep or Shortbow 5th attack , or Swords 2th attack to cleanse the imobilize , if u dont like evasive attacks :P
Ye ye a long cd utility (like i alrdy mentioned in my post? come on…) as a counter so I don’t have it ready for a real stun? Ye that sounds like fun …
Shortbow5 is heavy on initiative and requires a weapon swap, might as well go all the way then and run for it because you can’t really fight back after swapping to SB and then SB5 to get out of a measily immobilize.
Sword2 requires to be setup beforehand, can’t really see in the future personally. Must be handy!
but let’s drop this nitpicking on 1 point I made.
Look at the size of my post, and all you do is comment nitpickily on 1 little point which misses the point I tried to make entirely. Come on …
i like idea of making it cause more endurance loss/counter vigor etc. that way it would indirectly also hurt glass cannons.
What’s this nonsense about weakness not affecting glasscannons? Glasscannons are heavily invested in offensive power making evades one of their very few, or even ONLY, defensive options. Weakness in its curent state already hits glasscannons more than other builds.
Sure a glass crits more so the dmg decreaser procs less but thats just 1 side of the coin here. The other side is that it makes us a lot more susceptible to return fire.
While on a bunker more of his damage is affected (why does “is <so it doesnt get censored> hit” get censored? ROFL) by the weakness condition but he is less dependant on evades (and probably has more conditioncleansers and vigor anyway).
I actually therefor believe the condition is in a pretty good state.
(edited by Vyxion.6358)
Because of this, immobilizes are almost like stuns against us.
U can perfome <evasive attacks>> while immobilizes , taking no damage :P
Cost on those are too high when you want to use them for this purpose with them having such short evasion timers only covering like half of the animation time. Not really an option. Specially considering how many you would need to chain to cover even a little 2 second immobilize (not enough initiative to cover even 1 second i can tell you that). But you got what i ment right? No need to nitpick on 1 little thing.
Didn’t he say in a stream that the fix didn’t make it to the mid-month patch and that it should come on the 28th? I sure hope so because this bug is kitten annoying on my thief.
My firestorm engineer build does very good dps and without throwing away all defenses out of the window
That’s what the forums are for right? xD You’re welcome
About the runes, I think I’m sticking to the might duration runes.Do you hit 25 stacks of might constantly? I’ve been running with this build with Ruby Orbs as I have a ton of them, but wasn’t too sure if it would be worth the investment to get the might duration runes.
That said, I’ve been having a lot of fun with this build, and it brings some pretty good burst dps with Flame Blast + SD. It sure brought back the life into FT for me.
25 stacks consistently by myself? No but I get pretty close. In my opinion one should not aim to keep up 25 stacks 100% of the time because that can only be achieved by wasting stacks over the 25cap in order to never call below 25 and that is a waste of resources. I do however get really close to that and every now and then actually tap that 25. I definitly recommend the might stacking rune combo mentioned earlier.
And you’re welcome for the build Glad you think the FT is fun again. Did the same for me actually! That’s why i wanted to share it.
To Lunyboy:
Activation time of pistol and rifle are DEFINITELY a lot slower than what the tooltip says it should be. It therefor doesn’t do nearly as much dps as you would think from the tooltip and dmg multiplier algorithms. It’s just slower and therefor dealing less dps.
Add to that the fact the EG auto attack does more than just deal long range dmg, it would still have been my go to long range weapon even IF the rifle shot faster. But it doesn’t so it’s a no-brainer to me.
While I agree the topic starter probably should’ve placed this topic in the general section, the guy does have a point. Hear me out here.
I’ll start with a couple of examples as to why I feel the thief is on the bad side of the bias:
1.
When the signet changes came in, the warrior powersignet was changed to pierce through block because they felt the activation on the power signet felt hard to justify when the passive already gave power. The thief power signet activation effect however was NOT changed while it was basically the same thing. It now gives 180 power passively and 15% on 5 attacks on activation (with a wicked 45sec cooldown). You don’t need to be a rocketscientist to see this is a really silly signet now. Specially when you see the warrior version was changed for this exact reason!
2.
Then I also notice thiefneglection when I run in southsun when an instigator champ burns me and Hide in Shadows (heals, grants stealth, grants regen and clears poison, burn and bleed) doesn’t clean the burn of the instigator. What is that about?! 20second burn on me and my burncleaner doesnt clean that burn!
3.
And the thief, being squishy as we are and being as reliant on dodging as we are. Has to invest heavily with long cd utilities to halfarsedly (for example the heal withdraw which SHOULD dodgeroll away while cleaning immob. and healing but doesn’t roll anywhere because the condition cleanse for some mysterious reason is the LAST step of that spell) get rid of immobilizes which last a rediculous long time. Because of this, immobilizes are almost like stuns against us. Also, thieves were said to be the mobile class of the game. What did ANet do? They gave warriors extra means to counteract this condition while the thief is still stuck with it feeling like a stun to us and that withdraw spell still not going anywhere after what, 8 months? come on. (Now don’t get me wrong, i agree the warrior needed that buff, but so did we. Except you got it and we, again, did not).
4.
ALL our damage comes from traits. Our base damage quite frankly is pretty rediculously WEAK. Speccing a thief as a hybrid simply doesn’t deal enough damage to kill ANYTHING in pvp and speccing full bunker isnt an option either when things like immobilize shut us down as hard as they do.
5.
Then there’s out traits. Have you taken a look at them? Except for the SA line, it’s extremely dull. 5% damage on this, 7% dmg under that condition, 5% critchange with that, 5% critchance with this. It goes on and on like that. There’s no fun or diversity anywhere in those traits and they, on themselves, don’t even do a lot to begin with. But a thief is forced to pick them anyway since without these BORING traits, he hits like a wet noodle. Warrior’s may not be in a good place for pvp but their traits sure are a lot more interesting choices!
6.
When the quickness change came in. The countereffects of all quickness granting spells were halved. But the thief again bites the dust because while the regeneration part of the countereffect did get halved, it still destroys my entire endurance bar when I activate Haste. Whats up? Oh and nerfs on spells because of the old quickness did NOT get reverted making these spells beyond bad now.
7.
Some hard bias here: Thief is the only class in the entire game to not have a 1200 range auto attack. (stealth is a bad excuse since that didn’t stop the mesmers from getting a 1200 range attack either)
8.
PistolMH is still TERRIBLE. Attack activation time on both the SB and the Pmh are way slower than what the tooltip says. And pistol2 costs a lot while doing basically nothing. Spend all that intiative on a short duration stack of vulnerability? For what? I got no initiative after that to take benefit from it and in group play vulnerability stacking isn’t an issue at all for a thief to need to resort to such methods. It’s absolutely useless. Adding to this the fact P/P has no mobility or stealth entry at all on a stealth heavy dependent class.
I can go on forever about stuf that keeps getting ignored on thieves while other classes keep getting buffs.
But thieves really do need some attention right about now and not in the form of nerfs!
My number 1 wish for thief is to please rework the boring dmg boosting traits into interesting traitchoices and up the base dmg of the thief so it doesn’t feel pressured to go glass anymore (and with reworking the traits, glass staying an option while not becoming more powerful per se depending on changes).
I’m on 80% critdmg and 51% critchance, how is that not high? I’m staying with S.D.
Don’t see how you think 5 or so extra might stacks are going to beat what I’m using. Because you would be throwing all the added damage from my S.D. stuff out of the build (and critdmg from the traitline mind you) for a bit of extra might stacks. No way that would work better (and let’s be fair, HGH is dull as it gets, no fun imo).
Scholar is 10% when YOUR OWN health is 90%. If you don’t get hit, that’s the best rune for damage but you’re below 90% quickly.
Runes of the Eagle just isn’t good imo. Both Divinity and Ruby Orbs are much better.
Raw DPS-Wise, Ruby Orbs beat everything except Scholar runes when the player stays above 90% hp.
In short, i agree with Anubarak.
@ Vyxion.6358
This was great! Overall this was a very constructive and helpful post as I see it many improved their knowledge on certain things including me.
Do you have a final decision on your runes?
That’s what the forums are for right? xD You’re welcome
About the runes, I think I’m sticking to the might duration runes.
@Disastro: Grenadier Rampager HGH probably still does more dps, but the difference should be small and the playstyle IMO is no fun. But this game has no DPS meter so I can’t tell you the real difference. All I can tell you is that my build packs a LOT of dps and you shouldn’t be worried about the difference.
If I were you I would replace a couple of things first in your build :
1) Replace your Pistol/Shield and take a Rifle instead. Like others have said before, those aren’t power weapons and you will suffer a lot against retaliation ennemies and players so you need a good back up weapon in case you can’t use your Flamethrower, you also get a Leap Finisher on a lower cooldown (compared to your blast Finisher) with your Rifle allowing you to jump in your Napalm for a Fireshield, thats extra burning and might each time your are stucked by an attack.
2) Replace Rifle Turret with Net Turret, you basicaly have 0 roots or snares, those are the most powerfull abilities against boss fights and Pvp, if you get ennemies attention you always want a way to keep them at the right distance while you fry them alive with Flamejet.
3) Replace Precise Sight (V) by Sitting Duck (II) with your now improved acces to root skills you will stack vulnerability way faster, longer and efficiently while having acces to powerfull crowdcontrol abilities.
4) Take Med Kit instead of Healing Turret, it has a better synergy with your build because you have a lot of Toolbelt reduction for your Bandage Self, not to mention it will resset CD at 25% of your health (remember inertial Converter?) not to mention you get Drop Stimulant to get acces to Fury boon . Get a Sigil of Battle on your weapon set and you get 3 extra Stacks of Might for 36sec (+80% duration), 6sec of swiftness and 6sec of Vigor while you are dropping bandages and antidotes for yourself wich will take around 5sec time to setup, just enough to resset global CD, equip back your Flamethrower and get some Swiftness and Vigor as an extra.
Follow these steps and you keep a pretty similar build but instead you get :
+ A more flexible secondary weapon
+ More Might Stacking
+ More Vulnerability Stacking
+ A lot more Sustain
+ A lot more Crow Control
- You loose a Single Block and Reflect (both have terrible CD by the way)
- You loose Poison
- You still have almost no condition removal toolsHoping this will help!
1: Don’t make us repeat the pistol/shield vs rifle argument. Please read earlier arguments on that Also, retaliation enemies in pve are few, we can swap out FT for EG when thats needed but thats only needed when the enemy has retaliation AND your group has no ways of removing that. Doesn’t happen often so we’re not dealing with that in the basic setup.
2: It’s a PVE build, don’t need that much snaring in pve and net turret has a too long cooldown on toolbelt use for S.D.
3: Since we’re not taking rifle or net turret, no.
4: I already mentioned you can take med kit for solo play, but in dungeons the healing turret just simply is a better benefit to the team. (Yes i remember the initial converter, healing turret still better in group play).
to your summing up:
- The rifle is actually less flexible, see above arguments.
- You want to use longer cd toolbelts and stay outside FT for longer periods of time (rifle use and medkit use), no, ur might stacks will be lower.
- You would be able to apply vulnerability in burst quicker but in sustain it would be lower than precise sights during FT.
- Healing turret has stronger heals and better condition removal + it’s AOE. No, your sustain would suffer.
- You would have more snare options sure but not more CC as a whole, knockback on shield4, double daze on shield 5, blind on pistol 3. I guess u forgot about those. And more defense too on P/S! reflect and blocking…
- I Lose a lot more than a single block and reflect, read up earlier comments.
- Poison is pretty big in pve and the burst hits over 4000 so its not just poison application either…
- I Don’t know if u saw the changes on healing turret but its pretty good for condition removal now.
Don’t get me wrong.
I appreciate you putting time in coming up with your post but the changes would not benefit this build. Some of the changes even completely contradict the very idea of this build.
Even if the rifle shot 50% harder than pistol or FT (which it doesnt, the FT beats the rifle hands down in this build), poison still wins because it lowers the target’s healing capacity by 30%. This can basically be seen as a GROUPWIDE 30% dmg increase. And I think we all know there’s nothing the rifle does to compete against that on a boss. Wanted to get that out first
The EG does have a good auto attack yeah, it’s not part of my build’s standard setup though but when i know the encounter is heavy on retaliate (and nobody to strip or steal it is in the group) U could swap the FT for the EG and switch the juggernaut trait out for something that boosts the EG better. Because let’s face it, FT vs Retaliation is suicide. Mind you, i would then still not be using the rifle.
The DMG numbers posted for rifle are way off, the rifle does NOT do 2k dps. Not like it matters though, this build doesn’t want to stay out of FT for any serious periods of time anyhow because it would lose on might stacks, high frequency crit proccing and toughness.
I find the range on rifle a moot point by the way. Why would i care about the +100 range of rifle against pistol when I already feel safe within 600 range of the FT? Does not compute.
And yeah players discount many things. That’s why I decided to make a build of my own. This one And show the power of the underdog kit flamethrower!
An extra sigil will never make up for the loss of a good control weapon and damage.
Oh, but it really does.
The Shield gives you another Blast finisher to apply 3 more stacks of Might to your party. That’s 105 Power to everybody. For 20 seconds.
With Berserker gear, Poison Dart Volley can do 4K+ damage and Poison is a very significant utility condition that should be applied as much as possible regardless of whether you’re geared for Condition Damage or not.
Diminishing regenerative health skills on bosses actually does a lot more than what you’ll get switching to Blunderbuss. But I’m a bad player and give bad advice and play like a brain dead vegetable.
And there’s that
So many benefits in using P/S and trying to stay inside FT for as long as possible that I start forgetting to mention stuf!! Ty for that
Edit
even better getting rid of the rifle turret and replace it with yet ANOTHER elixirI think you didn’t understand that this thread was about Static Discharge build and NOT the classic HGH + Flamethrower. He needs the ranges toolbelt skills for direct strike at opponents, throwing elixirs are bugged with S.D. Didn’t he say in the first post that he uses the surprise shot as a projectile finisher?
Correct, elixirs wouldn’t work in this build because they fail at S.D and they dont projectile burn either.
About the pistol/shield vs rifle:
The rifle is a stronger dps weapon than pistol, granted. BUT. It still does less damage than the traited FT. To top it off, staying outside of FT will lose me juggernaut toughness, juggernaut might stacks and the high frequency sigil proccing.
Then there’s the double sigil benefit as well and the fact the shield gives me defensive options the rifle just doesnt give and i don’t have room for in my utilties either.
PS. Juggernaut is worth 9 stacks of might with these runes, 9!!! Very important trait in this build as u can see
Battle demands me to keep juggling the kit which is something this build tries to avoid doing though.
Oh yeah it’s loads of fun to play.
About speedy kits, it’s there for mobility between fights AND to keep having acces to vigor in case you have to dodge a lot thanks to invigorating speed in alchemy
Hello fellow engineers!
I thought of a new build last night and I would like to hear your thoughts on it
First of, the link:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqelIqyU37SrF17IxIFdm0geA46eXRKyfjB-TsAg0CnIyRFkLITOSds6My4YxsAA
It’s a 0-30-0-20-20 berserker build.
Flamethrower mixed with static discharge!!
Thats why the name is FIRESTORM
Let’s first get some facts out that support this build:
The flamethrower is a berserker weapon, not a condition weapon.
Burn has horrible scaling off condition damage and stacks in duration but has a strong base damage people without condition damage can use. Don’t get me wrong here, the burn in this build is just added damage as a condition on itself.
The main purpose of burn in this build is to keep up the prerequisite of the +10% dmg in flamejet.
This build stacks burn on the target in numerous ways to keep the target burning 100% of the fight.
We do this through:
- Final tick on Flamejet
- Incendiary ammo toolbelt skill of flamethrower
- Rocket Kick
- Napalm
- Surprise shot through fire field (100% projectile finisher)
Your job is to stay in flamethrower as much as possible to benefit from juggernaut and the high frequency auto attack with sigil of strength. The lower cooldown on the spells making Flame Blast a 4,75second cooldown adds to your pressure.
20 points in Tools add to your critical damage potential and lower the toolbelt cooldowns into being able to be pretty much spammed while the 30 points in firefarms and 20 in alchemy add the staple flamethrower traits (Fireforged Trigger, Juggernaut, Deadly Mixture).
With static discharge in Tools, low cooldown toolbelt skills turn into bouncing nukes which are very nice in a berserker build. This is where rifle turret and rocket boot comes into play.
With the flamethrower being a short to medium range weapon, rocket boot is a viable option to use as a 16 second cooldown static discharge dispenser while also functioning as an escape button/stunbreaker when things get too hot for the short range and applying serious ammounts of burn for flamejet’s 10% prerequisite.
Surprise Shot is an 8 second cooldown projectile finisher static discharge long range shot. Shooting this through napalm will add burn on the target while nuking it hard because of static discharge and berserker scaling. Deploying and detonating the turret inside your water field for aoe heal or inside napalm for aoe might adds to its uses.
Im not sure on the runes yet.
Currently running with 2 hoelbrak 2 fire and 2 strength fo +60% might duration but Ruby Orbs might be viable (or even better) as well.
What do you guys think of this build?
ps. Healing turret can be exchanged for Medkit to be more mobile in solo play and to benefit from the 15 tools trait resetting your main heal in clutch moments if you prefer. Personally I prefer blowing up a rifle turret in the waterfield of healing turret (or blow them both up for a double aoe heal).
+1 especially on the queued dodge, that change is INFURIATING to say the least.
Immobilize on my thief is already practically a stun because of how our defenses work. Having me waste a dodge after it because of that queue is absolutely rediculous!
So why is this not ok but thief burst is?
Because there is play in thief burst. There is play there, and that spike isn’t a single attack that’s 150% your max HP in damage. Thieves need to execute a series of skills in a row, in which at any time the victim has the potential to mitigate or have some sort of play to save themselves or stop the thief. You just don’t see that with the 100nades stuff, or its a window so narrow that we as devs weren’t happy with the play from both sides of the equation as attacker/defender.
You Sir, don’t know what you are talking about! A thief needs only 2 skills to kill a necro in 1 or 2 seconds. An ape can do this. I can avoid 100 nades by dodging but i can’t dodge a thief in stealth. Port-damage + 1 hit and thats it. Get it! Fix that op lame class and stop searching for excuses. And next time please play against a good thief with your ranger and you’ll see (or not) that you can’t even hit him because before you can aim at him he is back in stealth. Learn to balance a game and remove bugs and such overpowerness. BTW i play a thief by myself and i definitly know it’s op. So not so much a thief-hater but someone who uses his brain to recognize it’s just op.
A thief with 2 skills will do 0 damage to any necro that isn’t mentally impaired.
I mean, it’s either Steal (mug/stealth) to Backstab or CnD to backstab, both of which are easy to avoid… especially without a third skill called Basilisk Venom. And then you’re still doing kitten damage, because you need steal, CnD, backstab and basilisk to break 10k if everything crits. Another random bad player that knows nothing about thieves.
I don’t count steal as a skill. And i don’t count the stealth. A thief in stealth just needs 2 skills to kill a necro in less than 2 seconds. You don’t even have time to heal or remove conditions or whatever. If you say it’s possible make a video of it. I say it’s impossible and I play necro and thief so I know what i’m talking about.
Seems more like you don’t know anything about necros.Well there’s problem number 1. You’re being approached by a burst that follows the same pattern every time (C+D pre-charge, Steal, Backstab), and your first instinct is not to dodge either the C+D or the Mug + C+D depending on how fast you act, effectively breaking the combo altogether, and/or use damage mitigation eg. Shroud, Well of Darkness and other inhibiting skills. You do not react to whether Basilisk Venom has been equipped on the Thief’s status bar, so you can quickly have your finger over an available stunbreaker should you fail to dodge, and do not make any quick preparation with aforementioned skills against the incoming damage if you do not have stunbreaker and BV is active. Your first instinct is to…use your heal? Remove conditions? I don’t even.
Struggling to find any sense of impossibility here. Either you are just far too slow, or you’re lagging terribly, because this combo is one of the most predictable and easy-to-counter combos in the game, pretty much only topped on the “please kill me”-o-meter by a Bull Charge/Bolas->100b whiz kid.
There ist NOTHING predictable! Because what you can’t see is unpredictable! And there is ZERO time to react. Almost in the same moment the thief appears I’m downed. There is no time to do anything!
Except for the fact ofcourse he IS predictable…
Every time he enters stealth (nice fail on letting him stealth by the way) he is gonna go for a backstab in your back. So he has to walk to your back and he WILL. You know EXACTLY where he is and what he will do yet you claim you don’t. There’s lots of skills and utilities that can save you as a necro vs a thief and he’s never going to kill you in 1 combo anyway as you claimed he would. And even without all those spells you still could just dodgeroll away from where you last saw him and start running, he won’t catch up to you, he’s just going to destealth without having done a backstab.
Thieves are UNDERPOWERED in skilled play.
They are only BELIEVED to be overpowered by people who quite frankly just don’t know what they are doing in low level play and stand there waiting for the thief to show himself again. As if the thief is invulnerable during stealth, which he ain’t and as if it’s not possible to tell where that thief might be, which it is.
If you have trouble fighting a 25/30 backstab glass thief. This is not because that thief as a class is OP. It is because you as a player lack proficient combat awareness to read the enemy’s movement and predict where he is.
He IS going for a backstab, that’s all you needed to know to counter it.
Got spark with about 8g worth of rares. Guess I was lucky on the Spark
Will this ever be fixed?
I made a bunch of screenshots this time. 2 where you can clearly see my Asura schrunk, and 1 where she popped back to normal.