Guild Wars 2

Sweetbread.2679:

Churning Earth is actually probably the most well designed skill in the game. It’s powerful, but not broken op, has a tell, can be reacted to, and requires a setup to pull off. The problem is that a LOT of other skills are just idiotic failures of balance that have no counterplay or downside and dont require any skill to use. The game needs MORE Churning Earths not less.

I agree with you to an extent. I am all about high risk/high reward skills because they encourage skilled play. The problem is it is so easy to counter just by counting to three and dodging even with a setup using lightning flash or any other defensive utility. I am not suggesting changing the skill entirely. Landing the skill after the full 3 1/4s channel would still have the same degree of difficulty but just be slightly less predictable.

Caom.9251:

Woops you’re right when I tested the two skills I didn’t have anyone applying conditions on me. I think both are affected by immobilize right?

Also edited the original post to reflect the change.

I’m not 100% sure, but I don’t think you can immobilize someone in the middle of RTL, but using RTL after you are immobilized turns you into an angry ball of lightning that is stuck there. I don’t remember how rush is affected by immobilize though, or if it can be immobilized in the middle of the skill or not.

One thing you forgot to mention is that Rush is affected by cripple, chill, etc. while RTL is not. Whether this is balanced or not I don’t know. Both skills should be reflected fairly in your opening post though.

This is incredibly frustrating. Is anyone even reading my posts? I keep seeing a bunch of knee-jerk reactions to the title of the thread.

Kaleban.9834:

I would propose that the simplest fix for CE is to make it an instant cast skill, that still has its own wind-up, similar to Eruption. The Ele would trigger CE, the animation would start, but the Ele would no longer be rooted in place. This would give the Ele more tactical flexibility, and slightly higher DPS by being able to use other skills while the CE is “loading” itself, such as using Signet of Earth to immobilize an opponent in the AoE.

Yes, I agree that it’s predictable, but I disagree with your changes. I think that is far from the simplest fix and also I think the skill is ultimately fine how it is. The easiest way to remove the predictability aspect is to just let us be able to choose how long the cast time is, in other words be able to detonate it for less damage. I don’t think it needs the changes you have listed to be in the place it is right now and I don’t think it’s meant to be easy to land, but it shouldn’t be incredibly predictable either.

Joseph.7213:

Don’t touch my churning. It’s a spike damage skill that’s great in tPvP and GvGs.

My suggestion would not change how you use churning earth. It would give you the option to detonate it earlier for less damage, so you could still use it exactly how you are.

Sunshine.5014:

Churning Earth is fine. If you think it’s too hard to use, then make it so it still explodes with lower damage when you cancel it mid way.

That is exactly what I said in my opening posts and all of my subsequent posts! Have you even read anything I have posted?

Sunshine.5014:

Please don’t suggest adding things like Protection into Churning Earth. It will make me really OP, and I don’t want people to complain that I’m OP. Thanks

Again, I did not suggest that. I replied to another poster that a change like that would be silly because it would not address the problem of predictability. I know this thread is not exactly short, but please read more carefully before you reply.

Luimes.4281:

Churning Earth in a 1vs1 can force out a dodge.

Not only can churning earth force out a dodge in a 1v1, they can beat up on you for the entire duration of the channel and then dodge. Unless you have a more bunker-y spec, you would die or have to pop a defensive util like arcane shield. That, or you could get easily interrupted as you’re a sitting duck during that 3s channel.

Grimreaper.5370:

Still wouldn’t be OP, anyone with an understanding of the skill will just dodge after counting to 3 and avoid all of the damage. I’d rather see the skill have a “detonate” option between 1 and 3 1/4 seconds.

Yes, it wouldn’t be OP necessarily, but it would be really silly and wouldn’t address the real problem which is its predictability.

Axelwarrior.9084:

On the other hand, I think it should have different benefits to the user, like Stability and Protection while channeling it.

Like I stated above, this really wouldn’t help you land churning earth which is the problem.

Deneb.2697:

if I dig a pit under your position, and then i become blind while “channelling”. Will you fall in the grave or after blinding me ….you also learned how to levitate?

I’m confused as to why you’re trying to use real-world logic to prove your point.

Somehow it feels like not many people have read my opening post very closely. So many people are suggesting boons while channeling or going through certain conditions/blocks/aegis/whatever. These things do not make churning earth less predictable, which is the crux of my argument.

Also a lot of people are saying I landed churning earth X times yesterday and murdered Y number of people etc. This is still irrelevant. Anyone can land a skill when there are a lot of particle effects, a big zerg, or even against unskilled/new players. My point is in small-scale or 1v1 fights involving skilled players churning earth isn’t even worth using because it is so predictable. The channel time isn’t worth it if it’s so easily avoidable. Also having to blow other cooldowns like armor of earth or lightning flash (which still doesn’t make a difference against skilled players who can count to three) to land it means it is not even remotely in the place where it needs to be.

Treeoflife.4031:

I’m not saying its easy to land but changing up your rotation at the start and positioning well has been giving me good results. just wanted to add a success story to help assure people that its not completely useless.

I am not saying it is impossible to land, especially when there are a lot of particle effects flying around and a decent amount of people clumped together. Against skilled players (especially 1v1), it is pretty much impossible to land. They will just beat up on you for the duration of the channel and dodge when it’s finished channeling. Also, if you have to pop stability like armor of earth for the skill to even be effective, then I can’t say the skill is up to par.

Luimes.4281:

Now in all seriousness. Churning Earth is a good skill but it requires experience to land. You can land it in zergs, in pvp without wasting any cd’s for it.

However the suggestion making it charged is good. I wouldn’t change anything else about it.

Like I said above I agree it is possible to land, but it is also easy to predict. I agree and ultimately, I do like the skill the way it is, but having it be a charged skill would really make it infinitely better.

Luimes.4281:

To make it less useless it would be enough to:
- add protection when channeling
- always hit when blind
- hit through Aegis

@ OP

I totally agree. Lets make this the most op skill ever!

That wasn’t my suggestion, but okay. This thread is about churning earth. Please go troll elsewhere. I apologize, I wrote this before seeing your second post.

Luimes.4281:

No use in WvW and PvP? Learn to play please.

Anyone with half of a brain can dodge churning earth even with lightning flash simply by timing the channel. It is an incredibly predictable skill. If you are landing churning earth then you are most likely fighting unskilled players.

Deneb.2697:

To make it less useless it would be enough to:
- add protection when channeling
- always hit when blind
- hit through Aegis

This doesn’t address the issue of actually being able to land churning earth. It would still be an incredibly predictable skill that could easily be dodged with the right timing.

Kyon.9735:

Someone suggested it before, just revert it to be a Charged skill. The longer you charge it, the stronger it is. You have the freedom to choose when to actually activate it during the channeling duration.

That was kind of what I was suggesting if you read my opening post. The wiki says churning earth actually used to be a charged skill, but maybe that was in beta because I don’t remember it ever being one.

Grimreaper.5370:

I like your idea as well, perhaps for each second of channeling the skill the damage could scale accordingly, allowing you to detonate it anywhere from 1 to 3 1/4 seconds.

Yes, that’s what I meant in my original post. I guess I wasn’t clear enough!

Cecilia.5179:

The skill currently sees little to no use in WvW either, because AoE only hits 5 ppl and it’s not easy to stand within lighting flash range of a zerg for 3 seconds and not take a serious beating., not to mention the beating you take on your way out of the zerg too.

Thanks for the info! Like I said, I don’t really WvW, but this proves my point even more. I guess churning earth is lackluster at best in every game mode.

In my experience, churning earth doesn’t really have much use. In PvE it’s really only useful for might stacking before an encounter. In PvP it is the same issue. Even with the lightning flash combo, it is still easy to dodge just by timing the channel. While I don’t really WvW, I could potentially see it used there for surprise zerg busting or something. A poster below said this is not the case as churning earth has a cap on how many people it can hit. Regardless, I think it could use a little tweaking.

Ultimately, keep it the way it is, but give us the option to “detonate” it early similar to thief’s cluster bomb. Of course, it will do less damage if detonated early (how much less I haven’t really thought about), but it wouldn’t be such a predictable skill in PvP and could also be used in PvE for quick might stacking during encounters, as opposed to only before said encounter. If the caster chooses not to end the skill early and finish the 3 1/4s channel, it will stay the same.

What do you all think? Any constructive criticism is welcome.

Ticket #545851
Submitted on 4/16/2014

Yes, the focus is incredibly lackluster. It does have some great spells, but I found a huge problem that I don’t think has been addressed (I wasn’t able to read the entire thread though). Magnetic wave, earth focus 4, does not work on projectile AoEs, like Lupi’s green blob AoEs, Malrona’s poison AoEs, Wahlen’s grenades, the list goes on. Other reflection skills work on them, why does magnetic wave behave differently? I desperately want this to be fixed because it would make the spell perfect!

Rage.2017:

He is not that hard at all, just learn to dodge his pull and avoid his unload. Here is a video of me soloing him on my thief: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZaGRxE1s3I

Good luck have fun with him ;-)

Thank you! This was incredibly helpful!

Thaddeus.4891:

For the Destroyer of World when you stack him he won’t spawn Destroyer of Earth. But you like to knockback you and when he does you are no longer stack on him and he spawn Destroyer of Earth. Either you DPS as fast as possible, or use stability. With 2 Guardian with 10 in virtues you can have almost constant Stability, but you could try to see the knocback animation and time you stability for that (or block, etc).

Yeah, I was hoping for a non-stacking strat with an elementalist and a warrior. Kiting or stacking just aren’t as fun for me. Does stability prevent his adds from spawning when he hits you? I don’t have time to test it now unfortunately!

deSade.9437:

It’s a she. A pretty sexy one, too.

Huh, good to know I guess. Also, this information definitely upped the sexiness factor.

Thank you to everyone else who responded as well. I haven’t practiced much with Alphard since the buff (only run p2 with at least a four stack since), but I’m glad it’s doable. Thank you for the advice!

I have two questions.

In Arah P2, how do you kill new Alphard without a ton of reflects/projectile destruction? You used to be able to dodge his bomb after he pulls you, but now it’s instant. His pull has nearly no windup like Kholer in AC so it’s very difficult to dodge. He was fairly easy when my party timed their reflects, but I can’t see how you could do it without them. I would eventually like to 2man this path, but Alphard is the roadblock to my friend and I completing it. There is no way we would be able to have 100% projectile reflect/destruction uptime as we main an elementalist and a warrior.

Also, I know Destroyer of Worlds is an easy boss, especially with a full party. My friend and I enjoy 2manning dungeons and we tried meleeing him. The problem was he had no pattern or tell when he would spawn adds so we quickly got overrun. Normally there is an order, timer, or obvious tell for most bosses. I couldn’t find one on DoW to time my reflects so his adds wouldn’t spawn. We ended up kiting him down with his adds chasing us, but I was wondering if anyone knew if it was possible to prevent his adds from spawning without reflects/projectile destruction up 100% of the time. Has anyone else found a pattern?

I’m hoping someone can help me out! Thanks for reading.

Flux Qemist.6712:

Just a thought.
New Grand Master trait for water magic:

Immune to conditions whilst attuned to water.

That is incredibly overpowered. You realize that in PvP, it’s not last man standing, it’s capping points. An elementalist could sit on a point forever and people who run condi builds wouldn’t be able to do anything. Even if it was last man standing or any other game mode, it would still be overpowered. Honestly, I hope you were trolling.

I find it kind of funny how everyone wants a buff to damage to all our skills and auto attacks, but no one will bring up the fiery rush+lightning flash bug. It is beyond a “crazy wombo combo” and is incredibly overpowered. While I think it needs to be fixed regardless of whatever buffs/nerfs ele gets, it most definitely needs to be fixed if our damage output is increased in any way. I know no one wants their OP combo removed, (I still see people whining about the ether renewal+mist form combo, which was also OP) but those who do not want it removed are incredibly biased towards ele. I love the elementalist class to death and have mained ele since prerelease so please don’t assume I main another class.

Here are some changes I posted in another thread:

1. First and foremost, please fix the FGS rush+lightning flash bug. It’s incredibly overpowered.
2. Magnetic current, trident earth 3, is really, really broken. Pretty much all skills on trident are ranged, why would you want to pull yourself to your foe? And worst of all, it ministuns you! You are locked out of all your skills besides your 3 utilities and attunement swaps for a whopping 1.5 seconds. It even counts as a stun because you can use a stunbreak to get your skills off CD. I believe this is the most hindering skill in the entire game. I don’t think any other skills make you stun yourself. This skill should be removed altogether and replaced with something else.
3. Forked lightning, trident air autoattack, misses at point blank like 50% of the time.
4. Shatterstone, sceptre water 2, is not very good. Not only does it have a 1s cast time, you also have to wait 2s afterwards for it to burst for 4 vuln stacks. This isn’t as big of a deal, but it is a skill that just isn’t worth using in PvE. At least remove the 2s it takes to explode.
5. Fire shield, focus fire 5, is also pretty bad. The only good thing about it is it has no cast time. You get one stack of might every time you are struck. As an ele, you never want to be hit, especially for one measly stack of might and 1s of burning. Eles are the kings of might stacking, so the single stack of might is never worth it. The 40s CD is also silly for such a bad skill. The only real reason to use it is if you are traited for zephyr’s boon. Maybe rework the aura entirely or replace this with another skill.

I also saw another thread about how chill affects ele’s attunement recharges, which is a valid point and I agree the increased cd from chill on our class mechanic should be removed.

I’m not sure if this change would be too much but I would really like to see swirling winds become a reflection skill instead of projectile destruction. . I know elementalist already has some reflection skills (like magnetic aura and magnetic wave), but reflection is one of the most coveted skills in PvE, and it would be a welcome change.

One other thing is I’m unsure if fire grab is supposed to be a skill shot or not, because you have to be pretty precise to land it. Is this intended?

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

True, but it can also be helpful to use to escape people by using it on something in the direction you are going to get that little bit of a movement increase. Though it could have its benefits and disadvantages either way.

Well, regardless of its (situational) uses, it should not ministun the caster.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

2: It can be great to pull your target to you at times. Rock Spray is stronger the closer you are. So pulling them to you and then using that is great bleeding damage.

If it pulled the enemy to you, it would be a lot better. The difference is, it pulls you to your enemy. It should at least go the other way around and ministun the person you pulled instead of yourself. It feels like they switched the targets for the skill.

Let me start by saying I almost exclusively play PvE so I am only referring to PvE in this thread. I have been playing ele since prerelease and see a lot of whiners on the forums about how ele is anet’s kitten child, which just isn’t true. Ele is in a decent place right now, but these are just a few small changes that I would like to see.

1. First and foremost, please fix the FGS rush+lightning flash bug. It’s incredibly overpowered.
2. Magnetic current, trident earth 3, is really, really broken. Pretty much all skills on trident are ranged, why would you want to pull yourself to your foe? And worst of all, it ministuns you! You are locked out of all your skills besides your 3 utilities and attunement swaps for a whopping 1.5 seconds. It even counts as a stun because you can use a stunbreak to get your skills off CD. I believe this is the most hindering skill in the entire game. I don’t think any other skills make you stun yourself. This skill should be removed altogether and replaced with something else.
3. Forked lightning, trident air autoattack, misses at point blank like 50% of the time.
4. Shatterstone, sceptre water 2, is not very good. Not only does it have a 1s cast time, you also have to wait 2s afterwards for it to burst for 4 vuln stacks. This isn’t as big of a deal, but it is a skill that just isn’t worth using in PvE. At least remove the 2s it takes to explode.
5. Fire shield, focus fire 5, is also pretty bad. The only good thing about it is it has no cast time. You get one stack of might every time you are struck. As an ele, you never want to be hit, especially for one measly stack of might and 1s of burning. Eles are the kings of might stacking, so the single stack of might is never worth it. The 40s CD is also silly for such a bad skill. The only real reason to use it is if you are traited for zephyr’s boon. Maybe rework the aura entirely or replace this with another skill.

While these changes are small, I think they are fair. Any comments/criticism would be welcome. Thanks for reading.

Kasaeva.4691:

Your build didn’t stay put together in the link :/

Hmm.. seems to work fine for me. I can write it out anyways.

30 points in fire with traits Burning Precision (V), Internal Fire (VI), and Pyromancer’s Puissance (XII)
20 in air with Bolt to the Heart (VI) and Air Training (X)
20 in water with Vital Striking (VI) and Stop Drop and Roll (VII)

Full Berserker gear with emerald orbs and ruby trinkets with ruby orbs. I have a cavalier backpiece with a ruby orb, but that can be replaced with Berserker and you won’t be missing out on much.

2 Berserker daggers with Sigil of Superior Strength and Sigil of Superior Battle, although you could probably get away with different sigils or even ruby orbs.

For consumables I used Bowl of Curry Butternut Squash Soup and Master maintenance oil, although I have read you could use the potion of bandit(?) slaying too.

For skills I used Ether Renewal, Signet of Fire, Grasping Vines, and Signet of Earth. I didn’t really bother using an ult because with Fiery Greatsword you miss out on that CC you need. Tornado might be an option but you’d probably be eaten by conditions.

Hopefully that helps a bit!

I’m gonna copy and paste my experience with a d/d elementalist from another thread.

I managed to solo both tier 4 trials on my d/d elementalist yesterday. It’s hard but once you get the pattern down it’s not so bad if you bring a lot of cc. If you happen to aggro any mobs it’s best to just run back behind the mortars and hope the vets will leash even if you have to risk losing treasure. Here is my build and gear setup with consumables for those interested. I only have one (not infused) ascended trinket so feel free to replace the others with your infused zerker trinkets. :p

I am Sylvari so I was able to get grasping vines for extra CC. I went d/d partially for magnetic grasp. I find sceptre to be a bit too slow, but if you feel more comfortable ranged, go for it. Immobilize the plunderers as soon as they spawn and just start destroying them. If you really need to get a plunderer on the spawn closest to the treasure, you can immob him with one of your many CC skills, burst him down, then RTL out of there (make sure you aren’t immobilized first though) so you won’t be absolutely destroyed you as you are incredibly glassy. Your heal skill doesn’t have to be ether renewal, but the condition removal is incredibly helpful if you happen to be caught.

I went with the water line trait stop, drop, and roll because of the incredible amount of chill. If you’d rather just sit in air a majority of the time, you could take ember’s might instead of internal fire, but I just found it easier to get the 10% damage boost in both attunements.

If you happen to be downed, don’t give up! Mist form into water and swim away. Seriously, you can res yourself much faster in water and can still complete the event if you are even a little bit lucky.

I am by no means a great player or theory crafter and I’m sure many of you can come up with better builds/strategies. I’m just sharing what worked for me. Hope this helped a bit.

I managed to solo both tier 4 trials on my d/d elementalist yesterday. It’s hard but once you get the pattern down it’s not so bad if you bring a lot of cc. If you happen to aggro any mobs it’s best to just run back behind the mortars and hope the vets will leash even if you have to risk losing treasure. Here is my build and gear setup with consumables for those interested. I only have one (not infused) ascended trinket so feel free to replace the others with your infused zerker trinkets. :p

I am Sylvari so I was able to get grasping vines for extra CC. I went d/d partially for magnetic grasp. I find sceptre to be a bit too slow, but if you feel more comfortable ranged, go for it. Immobilize the plunderers as soon as they spawn and just start destroying them. If you really need to get a plunderer on the spawn closest to the treasure, you can immob him with one of your many CC skills, burst him down, then RTL out of there (make sure you aren’t immobilized first though) so you won’t be absolutely destroyed you as you are incredibly glassy. Your heal skill doesn’t have to be ether renewal, but the condition removal is incredibly helpful if you happen to be caught.

I went with the water line trait stop, drop, and roll because of the incredible amount of chill. If you’d rather just sit in air a majority of the time, you could take ember’s might instead of internal fire, but I just found it easier to get the 10% damage boost in both attunements.

If you happen to be downed, don’t give up! Mist form into water and swim away. Seriously, you can res yourself much faster in water and can still complete the event if you are even a little bit lucky.

I am by no means a great player or theory crafter and I’m sure many of you can come up with better builds/strategies. I’m just sharing what worked for me. Hope this helped a bit.

And for those of you who can’t open the link for whatever reason:

Weena.6429:

30 points in fire with traits Burning Precision (V), Internal Fire (VI), and Pyromancer’s Puissance (XII)
20 in air with Bolt to the Heart (VI) and Air Training (X)
20 in water with Vital Striking (VI) and Stop Drop and Roll (VII)

Full Berserker gear with emerald orbs and ruby trinkets with ruby orbs. I have a cavalier backpiece with a ruby orb, but that can be replaced with Berserker and you won’t be missing out on much.

2 Berserker daggers with Sigil of Superior Strength and Sigil of Superior Battle, although you could probably get away with different sigils or even ruby orbs.

For consumables I used Bowl of Curry Butternut Squash Soup and Master maintenance oil, although I have read you could use the potion of bandit(?) slaying too.

For skills I used Ether Renewal, Signet of Fire, Grasping Vines, and Signet of Earth. I didn’t really bother using an ult because with Fiery Greatsword you miss out on that CC you need. Tornado might be an option but you’d probably be eaten by conditions.

Yeah, there have never been red circles there.