Guild Wars 2

Archaon.6245:

Keep saying from start…guild wars was one of the best if not The Best pvp mmorpg and they totally ruined it, gems, money, this stupid “casual friendly” mentality (A game can’t be competitive if you make it casual friendly…anyone with a proper working brain should get this..try to go HA as “casual aka noob” see what happens)…you made this gw2 and gw1 is still miles ahead…dunno if dev’s fault or not but for sure it must be someone’s and You ppl…you FAILED…TOTALLY. Now all those rants probably crossed the line but the real question is..why? People are gonna complain no matter what, we know…but in this case it must mean something..

Totally agree with xeph’s frustration btw…putting so much effort and looking at the game falling apart with every “balance” rofl patch with obvious things never fixed even after very experienced player’s complaints (That obviously know this game 10 times better than those devs)…no wonder ppl eventually get bored and get the kitten out from this joke..

Are you serious? As someone else mentioned, League of Legends is exactly casual, friendly. And I’m going to bring up something else, Super Smash Brothers Melee for the Gamecube. The fighting game community is still supporting it strong and had ~160,000 concurrent views at EVO. Any game can be competitive if it gets the right following. Doesn’t get more casual and friendly than Jigglypuff beating the crap out of a Fox.

SoPP.7034:

Younha.3170:

Directly impacts the game…in order to get more cosmetic skins.

Cosmetic skins are the end result, you still have to play the game irrespective of what’s at the end of it.

And that’s all you’re taking away from all these posts? A seasonal, convenience good that’s slightly better than what’s been offered in the gemstore thus far. The same argument could be made for any of the harvesting tools, but all these convenience goods are marginal in what they offer as a straight, coined P2W advantage.

If you’re so worried about them heading in a dangerous direction which I assume is towards real P2W. Straight advantages over non-paying players, not harvesting tools, not transmutation stones, not convenience goods; just pure straight stats upgrades or weapons. When and if they even start introducing that in any way shape or form, I will worry or quit, but it hasn’t even happened yet. There’s nothing wrong with time gating with how they’ve done it so far, we’re all here for the long haul, we’re going to craft/obtain w/e it may be eventually.

SoPP.7034:

Sawnic.6795:

Buying minis is more pay to win, but no one QQ’s about that.

That’s not P2W, mini’s are a cosmetic feature. The infinite coin DIRECTLY impacts on how you play the game.

The argument being does the heavily gated account bound activities around baubles/continue coins prevent people from playing SAB and achieving in it compared to those that buy the infinite coin.

Directly impacts the game…in order to get more cosmetic skins. All you’re winning in the end is a cosmetic skin. There’s six boss chests, if I remember correctly, that are currently available. Each one gives you two plus the one each for the two bonus rounds, 50 for the your pick in the next blue weapon set. I’ve finished SAB World 1 and 2 twice now for 28 Bauble Bubbles. Every four days for a skin and 1g isn’t that bad especially once you get used to the runs.

I think the backlash and outcry towards this is only this bad because of the high skill cap. There was similar outcry with Liadri, that just didn’t have a Infinite Token available. It’s still entirely doable without the Infinite Token. Once people figure it out and the guides pop up, it’ll be much easier.

Edit: Even with the Infinite Token, it’s still possibly for the skill requirement for Tribulation being too much for a player and not resulting in any special skins. And someone from my friend’s list has just gotten World 1 Tribulation farm down with using only 5-7 continue tokens. And I’m seeing more threads pop up saying the Infinite Token isn’t necessary.

Kaleban.9834:

Younha.3170:

“Pay2Win” was coined, by the player community, as a game where they offered paying players an advantage (usually massive in terms of stats/attack power) over free players.

Seeing as how SAB has no stats, and we’re talking about P2W in regards to SAB, stats are irrelevant. P2W as you say, is offering players who buy with real money an advantage over players who don’t pay with real money.

A player who buys the Infinite Coin has an advantage over those who don’t: ease of mind (not having to worry about farming) and what content they choose to play. Yes, you can go spend a ton of time farming champs for the coin drops, but then you’re not in SAB are you? Also, the coin buying player can then pick and choose what content he wishes to play, without having to worry about being locked out of content because he failed to farm enough.

So, if we define P2W has giving paying players an advantage over non-paying players, then the Infinite Coin is absolutely P2W. Just because its not as obvious as offering super weapon stats on the BLTC just means its a sneakier and more subtle tactic at a cash grab.

“The gem store only offers quality of life and cosmetic goods that do not affect or alter the core gameplay in which it would give a massive advantage over another player who does not use it.” I would rather define P2W when it involves core gameplay, not something extraneous that doesn’t relate to the core of game and has no adverse effects where it matters, SPVP, PvE Dungeons, WvW, and the market in this particular game. Where a massive P2W advantage would skew over player skill, we don’t see that yet and hopefully won’t. If by your definition of P2W, all the player is winning is a cosmetic showoff skin, which I can deal with since there are many.

The worry of not having to farm is a convenience. Much like Transmutation Stones are a convenience. Now, if the Infinite Token was the only possible way to get into SAB, I would be worried. Not to mention that it is possible that even players with the Infinite Token may possibly be stuck in Tribulation World 1, Zone 1 for the entire month due to the skill requirement like Liadri. It’s not a direct ticket to winning, it’s a convenience and an optional one at that. I will attempt Tribulation without an Infinite Token because I don’t feel like investing in something that’s a seasonal convenience.

Arenanet and NCsoft are here to make money, that’s no secret. But they haven’t done anything massively alarming to me yet which is why I continue to play and support GW2. I imagine once the guides for Tribulation are out, more and more players will get through it without a need for an Infinite Token.

Sawnic.6795:

I’m not even sure what you’re talking about.

I said the coin is not pay to win, and that the minis are more pay to win that the coin is. I didn’t say the mini’s were. You read what I said and twisted it to fit your essay.

You also mangled two of my posts together in a quote, both of which were addressing two different points. My second quote basically said freemium is another word for pay to win.

Then, my sincere apologies for misinterpreting your posts. I’ll leave it there however, for others to see unless you want me to edit it to be not directed at you.

Sawnic.6795:

Mif.3471:

It’s not P2W per se, but it’s very close to “Freemium”.

Yeah, the moment that the coin also not only grants immunity to things in-game making it easier, but the SAB gives rewards that will make money, this will be considered P2W. Buying minis is more pay to win, but no one QQ’s about that.

That would be pay to win. -_-

Uhh…no it’s not. First of all, there’s an entry cost to get into the game. Second, access to anything crucial game wise has not been forbidden to non-gem store users. The gem store only offers quality of life and cosmetic goods that do not affect or alter the core gameplay in which it would give a massive advantage over another player who does not use it.

The Infinite Token is a convenience item at that, but it doesn’t bar the non-Infinite Token player from doing Tribulation. Players have already discovered they don’t need the token. Not to mention the rewards for doing Tribulation are account bound and that the skins you can sell are available from each daily boss chest you can do quite fine without the Infinite Token.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/sab-bts/Infinite-Coin-is-NOT-Required

“Pay2Win” was coined, by the player community, as a game where they offered paying players an advantage (usually massive in terms of stats/attack power) over free players. Buying minis gives you NO advantage whatsoever over another player other than cosmetic showing off. The Infinite Token gives you ease of replayability, but is in no way a direct, superior advantage over another player. Especially, when you can spend the same time Champion/Dungeon multi-path farming, which is FAR more lucrative instead of suffering in SAB like everyone says they are.

I suggest you take a serious look at Nexon if you think cosmetic and convenience goods are Pay2Win. Some of their games are straight up Pay2Gamble2Win. Gambling for a RNG possibility to get a weapon to the next tier, which is already absurdly low, and even then you might not even get the stats you wanted. Each try is usually a dollar, with players spending upwards of 300 dollars A DAY and not even getting above the first tier. And non-paying players left in the dust damage wise to their far superior paying players. GW2 has none of this, it’s easy to gear and the jump from exotic to ascended is miniscule to what you see in a real Pay2Win game.

Fortus.6175:

Edit: Well, this got moved to the Thief forum, where only thieves who believe their class is Underpowered and totally fine will come and bash and give me “advise” on how I failed to swing my weapon to the air and spam all my AoE and put it in CD in the hope that one tick will tickle their hp similar to mine in which case I have no skill that could put out 8k of damage to counter his 8k backstabds and 6-7k HS, while resseting the fights at will.

How in the world is it balanced to just die to a backstab that hits you for 8.5k out of the blue, wearing PVT/valk accesories and weapons, with no way of blocking it, with no counterplay involved, followed by two 3k HS (pray none crits., because then you are looking at 6-7k HS easily). Where is the counterplay to that? Dont tel me that zerg because I was in a zerg, the guy came in backstab, HS, stealth on top of me, nobody could do shiznit about it, stomped me and walked away with 50% hp.

Stealth is out of control, I understand its good to get the jump on people, but I have been hit by 11k backstabs with my squishy equipment, I was wearing PVT/valk weapon and accessories, yet it hit me for 8.5k. EDIT: 10.5khp for berzerker, we have the lowest hp pool in the game, have I been full zerker I would have literally died in one hit, with zerker I get hit with 11k backtabs all the time.

From what I can tell, your ele build seems to be like one of those Meteor Storm heavy damage. Otherwise, I don’t know why you would have full Valkyrie. You’re obviously level 80 from your screenshot, but your HP doesn’t add up at all for what you say it is. “I was wearing PVT/valk weapon and accessories, yet it hit me for 8.5k.” My level 80 ele with full exotic Soldier’s gear and healing runes (with no vitality in them) has 13k HP with NO trinkets, NO weapons, NO traits equipped. Fully equipped with my equipment and what not it comes out to 19k HP. Now, even with the WvW HP bonus, it’s a Sunday at 3 AM so it’s not even as much as a gain and we’re at 3rd place. So either you’re full of crap about your gear or you’re undergeared, which against a fully geared ascended thief, you’re going to die. Or maybe I’m wrong, could be some glaring omission I’m not seeing at 3 AM in the morning.

I haven’t read through this entire thread yet, but I’m sure I will in the morning. Staff eles are group support and ranged “Bringing down the rain” AoE damage, but they aren’t going to be able to do crap in a 1v1 or when they get singled out on in a zerg. You might stun them or cripple them, but any competent PvPer will avoid all that because they already have it planned in the back of their head. A thief with a crapload of mostly offensive skills is going to take down an (undergeared) ele with staff no problem. Maybe I’m wrong again, but I haven’t seen any great staff builds for a 1v1 ele ever. Perhaps I just haven’t run into one, but I’m pretty sure there aren’t any.

If you can understand what a thief can do, you can counterplay against it. I main one and I’ve gone on my rifle shout warrior to destroy them. You see familiar things, patterns, key things to look out for that give them away. Pew pew pew from range then he notices me. By the time he gets close, he’s half health or so for your standard zerker ones. With my Immobilize, they usually waste their stealth heal to get to me. Soon as they get close, Rifle Butt, pew pew some more. Fun part is when they Shadow Refuge to hide, instant Fear Me into Kill Shot or more pew pew and it’s done. Channeled skills still hitting them through stealth is also fun. Now, if that was a rare, kitten, constant PvP thief, I would’ve lost 10/10 duels with that build.

Sure thieves have stealth, but it’s not even that overpowered in terms of overall WvW and sPvP. Tourney players know how to destroy generic thieves like the back of their hand. I believe most of the top thieves use S/D and don’t even stealth at all with their build other than for a stomp. Have you seen other class burst builds as well? I’ve seen a zerker D/D ele drop zerker squishies faster than a thief can. Some of the things in video are oudated, but the builds tweaked can still output crazy burst damage.

Guardian GS Sword/Focus Burst
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgYhGde9Qmc

Ele S/D Burst
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PD1S_sP90Ao

This one always makes me chuckle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVn7us9Fvpk

TakaEagle.9486:

You obviously have not played any tPVP, because if you had, you would know backstab builds are anything BUT overpowered. The fact that you are letting backstab builds hit 10k+ on you, is purely because you decided to roll a squishy build. That is simply a consequence you should deal with and not whine about. A backstab thief can’t do kitten to a tanky guardian/warrior. The fact you are asking for nerfs simply demonstrates your lack of understanding of the class. The purpose of the thief as anet has described is to: get in, kill quickly, get out. Nerfing the backstab/HS would just hinder the WHOLE POINT of the thief. Yes thieves have high burst damage, but they also have ~12k hp, they can just as easily be burst down at the same rate.

QFT. I’ve built a mega burst thief and everyone that does for any class is squishier than cotton. Don’t get me wrong, if I get caught, I’m dead for sure. If you don’t even have any toughness/vitality over 1.5k with no stunbreakers or immobilization cleanse when you get caught, you deserve to get punished for it. It’s not just thieves that do the mega burst on squishies that like go full Berserker’s or no toughness. I’ve seen dagger Eles burst down stragglers in 3 seconds with some fire field combo. My crit damage rifle warrior did a 12k Kill Shot on a 80 staff Necro who didn’t seem to have a point in toughness. I’ve even hit 10ks on piercing through a zerg. For stealth thieves, use the fact that channeled abilities follow them through stealth. Predict when they’re going to stealth and start casting. I’ve finished tons of mesmers and thieves with Volley/Kill Shot. Crowd control chains also destroy most of the BS spam thieves.

It’s the same crap in dungeons. All these pubs I’ve been getting are dropping to like auto attacks. Not just thieves. Every class. Some 80 GS Guardian in AC dropped every 15 seconds and didn’t contribute crap the entire path. Squishy builds don’t do crap for DPS if they’re going be downed every fight. Don’t roll squishy unless you’re prepared to be punished.

@Monsoon

They drop every 1/3 or 1/4 kill for me. But I do actually get bags from just even stabbing a downed opponent once or twice just before the finisher or damage finishing.

Sirevanac.3178:

^ considering you can do them and have the territory without trouble.

I, as a thief, dont have too many aoe spam crap. I can try bowing while defending, but that’s about it. And I really have a hard time trying to get these things, it’s really troublesome.

I, also a thief, don’t have any problems with any badges. D/D, P/P with a handy shortbow in inventory and that’s it. I’m crit damaged spec with 25/30/0/15/0 with emphasis on singling people out of the mob. I’ve gotten more badges on my thief than I have on my elementalist. I just bought a Gift of Battle yesterday and roughly sitting at 170 badges left. Here’s some inspiration.

All it takes is manipulation of your skills/build to the maximum advantage.