Guild Wars 2

So I am an 80 ele. I am plugging away daily at the places of power to get those charged quartz crystals for the cele gear.

However, most every thing else is quite confusing to me. So I meed an end-game back piece, but where to start? There is the crafting one, but that is only lvl 78, so I guess I don’t go there.

I can use the forge, I think, but I need mystic crystals and I have no idea if I have any of those, as there doesn’t seem to be a spot for them in the crafting section of the bank.

I can trade mcguffins into some trader some where for some other mcguffins to trade in at the forge to make an exotic piece that will later need to be mcguffined up to ascended after I get the goods to do that by trading in other mcguffins to other vendors, etc, etc, etc… And that is just for the one back piece.

I look at my crafting materials (so much random junk) and I have ZERO idea where to start.

I have 435 tailoring and max jc, but I think that means nothing cause I need to use the forge now? But before I head to the forge, I need mystic crystals too, and then there are the forge shards which can replace needed items when crafting… or upgrading… or something? And then, when I go to the forge, all I see are freaking SALVAGE KITS on the left? What monkey designed this counter-intuitive mess?

Anyways, is there a link explaining this from the ground up besides the crafting info on the wiki, which is a labyrinthine mess of links to materials for gear that I am not not even sure I need.

Other than this aspect of the game, everything else has been a refreshing user experience. However, this is a mess.

This might come across as a bit of a rant. I am a newish player to the game but a veteran to MMOs. I played AC story mode at level 35, and it was fun. Now I am 43, and I run dagger/dagger with 20 in arcane for quick swaps and vigor on crit. I understand the mechanics of the game quite well and can take on groups of vets no problem.

Here is the problem. I am trying to run the manor instance, and everything one-shots me. I am told, “dodge more,” but I fail to understand how to dodge a during a group pull when one mob, among five, with a gun, behind me, out of line of sight, can one shot me. I spend the entire encounter with my eyes glued to my health ready to smash spacebar as soon as any damage shows, yet I have no recourse against being ranged one-shotted. I see other players with health bars at 3/4-1/2 full. My health bar is either full or red. There are no in-betweens. What gives?

There is no learning curve here. I tried staff, but then I did worse. Most of the abilities root you or require ground targeting, forcing me to stop dancing and, you guessed it, get one-shotted immediately. My gear is completely up to date, and I use food.

I am also told to try warrior or guardian. I did. I fell asleep. Warrior: charge, hundred blades, repeat. Guardian: the aoe pull and silly-looking spin move. Booooooooring. Please, anet, just give me some health. Let me absorb at least one hit before being downed.

I am no mmo noob, and I always favor the complex classes: WoW warrior tank, AoC barb control pvp, SWTOR operative heals. However, here there doesn’t seem to be any class that even comes close to the complexity of the ele. It just stinks that the ele seems like a waste.

RayneOfChaos.9856:

I saw you mentioned you played bleed build thief as well (or maybe I read that wrong), but I was wondering since you said you played that and ele, how would you counter a bleed thief build as an ele since the thief just hits 5 to stealth, spam auto attack and stealth skill, and stealth heal, repeat etc (not really difficult). I watched a few bleed thieves and it takes like 5 seconds to get enough stacks on you..and its gg..at least from their videos.

TBH, I never got hit by a preemptive strike by a stealthed thief. Perhaps if I did, it would be GG. However, I did fight with a few thieves. They opened with either blossom or HS. Both are easy to dodge. A smart thief, I suppose, would have auto attacked in order to waste my dodge.

As far as conditions go… You ask a good question. I just logged back into my pvp build since we are now talking specs. In fact, my build is 0/10/20/30/10, not 0/10/20/20/20, and I notice that I remove conditions when attuning to Water and when regening. And I have various ways to regen. Perhaps that is why they did not bother me. I never much thought about it.

TheWarKeeper.5374:

Thief has other viable builds, that is only 1 of them, as for bleeding, if you are going to play vs a team with microphones over a tournament, you will see ur condition dissapear long before they expire, there are only 2 or maybe 3 classes with bad condition removers.

Well, I burn them too. Seriously, though, point taken. Like I said, I was wondering if I had something wrong. It seemed to me that ele was a fine class. I suppose I will be enlightened in higher-end PvP.

TheWarKeeper.5374:

When u talk about confusion it semms you are probably talking about the nerfed warlock build.

No, no, I mean literal confusion, in my brain, as I could not tell who the real player was. Obviously, I did not fight you then. I was drawing attention my being a noob and holding my own with this “underpowered” class. To say that one particular build played by a particular player could beat me is irrelevant. I am no pro. And, yes, to compare, my BC prot war in wow would chew through a marksman-crit build hunter. That does not, by any means, mean that hunters were underpowered. My point is that, given that I am new to the class, if the class were, in fact, underpowered, should I not have had my kitten handed to me in the zergfest that is sPvP rather repeatedly placing in the top my first night out?

Leuca.5732:

I’m assuming (based on your post) that this had more to do with what you happened to be aiming for with your build, and not with noticing what’s wrong with elementalist traitlines.

Yeah, I guess I can understand that IF I wanted a single-target, insta-kill spec, a la Backstab or 100B, then ele is not the way to go. For PvP, I looked at my damage and thought,“I can bleed my enemies. I can bleed ALL of them. At the same time! If only I could survive…” So I did not spec in fire for the damage bonus. Besides, I rarely stay in Fire attunement for too long. I blow those CDs first and fast. So I took 10 air for movement speed instead. I took 20 in Earth, Water, and Arcane for obvious reasons. I guess some other specs would be unviable.

Then again, don’t other classes suffer from this? For thief isn’t it Backstab, Heartseeker or go home? And I never see anything but 2-handed guardians; how boring is that? The only class I ever see much diversity in is war. They put together all kinds of weapon combos.

TheWarKeeper.5374:

Interesting story, care to try vs my mesmer, engineer or guardian? because the only chance i am sure you would have would be surviving my guardian without killing me if you never made a mistake, other than that i see no competition.

In fact, I stated that guards were the class I feared. Thank you for your heartfelt agreement. Mesmers, when I played, did not strike me as a threat. Had a few who could bail, confuse me with their images, and get away. The others whom I saw sticking around got burned and bled just the same. Engineers… Meh, they all look like thieves to me. AoE spam and Dodge just the same. Mist and run at 33% health. No need to change strategy.

PvP:
Only tried it a little in sPvP. Built a 0/10/20/20/20 spec. Ran Tough, Vit, and Power gear. Had 19000K hp. Ran DD. Used default heal, Arcane Wave, Teleport, Mist, and Elite Golem. I would charge in with the front lines. Often I would charge in alone against 2-3. While I couldn’t kill them all, I could dump all AoEs, kill one, Tele/Mist/Heal out, and survive to come back into the fight. I rarely died, and I killed what seemed to be many. In short, I had a blast. While my team did not always win, in the 10-15 games I played, I scored in the top three every time. Most often I was #2.

It was nice to have people charge at me 1v1 thinking I was an easy target only to see me dodge the charge, AoE spam, and kite them as they bled and burned to death. After a while, people would stop charging me like I was a free kill. This is not a troll: I found thieves especially easy to dodge/teleport/mist around and AoE spam down. For a noob, I think that was pretty good. I must admit, however, I learned to fear and avoid guardians. I could not kill a guardian1 on 1.

Keep in mind, I did not know the maps, had never went up against other players before, and had no underwater abilities unlocked (much to my chagrin).

Also, I used Earth 5, the slow one, often in PvP. I just led it with a well-placed Earth 4 knockdown. The smart ones usually ran rather than risk trying to get up and land an interrupt. The dumb ones died. Fast. Smart and quick-thinking ones would interrupt it. Oh well, all part of the game. After all, I can always tele/mist away if I need to.

So, am I doing things right or am I missing something?

TL:DR
Elementalist rocks!

Before I begin, I should state a few caveats:
1) I have only played ele up to lvl 30 in PvE.
2) I have only engaged in sPvP, no tourneys.
3) Playing keyboard piano is no problem for me, and, honestly, it isn’t as hard as some mmos. I cut my teeth on a vanilla WoW tank; stance-dancing comes naturally to me. AoC conqueror required so much more coordination than this “most difficult” class in GW2.

I don’t understand, aside from the bug complaints, why all of the kittening about ele. My serious question is am I doing things right or am simply I missing something?

I am having zero problems with this class, other than the bugs: RTL, MG, etc. I started on ele, died a couple of times, read the forums, got angry with the rest of the QQers, switched to thief and warrior, got bored, switched back to ele, flipped to DD. Now I am having a blast. To me, all the dodging and attunement switching simply makes the class more fun. (fyi: you have to dodge to survive with a bleed build thief too.) All the extra effort it takes to play one is WHY I play one. I like the control over so many aspects of the action; I also drive standard for this reason.

Let’s talk PvE:
Perhaps I have the golden build. I run a DD build. My gear is up to date and built around Vit, Tough, and Power. I already do so much killer AoE damage that I went for the defensive stats: 10 earth, 10 water. I know that at level 80 the traited stat points are largely insignificant, but, at level 30, 100 toughness and an extra 1000 hp is nice.

I love fighting next to a warrior or some such and charging in with him. He will, of course, push 2 and swing away with 100b. While he drops his ONE mob, I will have hit Earth Armor, Fire 3, 4, Arcane Wave, Fire 2, Fire 5 before he is done. Anything left standing will get hit for bleed stacks from Geomancy sigil as I switch to Earth and tap 4, 5, 2, and Mist Form. With the burning and 12+ stacks of bleeding, everything dies, while I sit invulnerable for 3 seconds. I love watching warriors try to hit something, anything, besides their first target as everything around them dies from my AoE. I picture the player thinking, “Hey, I am supposed to be the OP class here!”

If my Earth Armor is on CD, then I just rely on my 50% health Earth Armor trait. If any of the above abilities is on CD, then I do some freeze/knockdown kiting in water and lighting – takes longer but gets the job done.

As far as survivability goes, I died way more on my warrior than my current ele. Pull too much, water 3 for freeze, teleport away, Mist Form if it is up, heal with water 5 and 2, and use Frost Armor to slow any mobs who can catch up. I am quite hard to kill. If I pulled too much on my warrior, all I could do is pray I could kill them first.

Oh, and if I need it, I have an Elemental to summon too.

In PvE, I play my ele like a Cataclysm prot war. I gather up 3-4 mobs before AoEing the hell outta everything. Otherwise, the battle seems like a waste of cooldowns.

What I am saying is, I kill almost as fast as my thief, kill more mobs at the same time, have more mobility, and survive longer. My warrior did not even compare.

It seems to me that the ele class requires the right gear, coordination, and a solid build. So did a warrior in vanilla WoW. How many would-be warriors switched to rogue then. How many would-be eles are switching to other classes here. Warrior was pimp in WoW, and, so far, ele is pimp here. Get the gear, learn to dodge, learn to dance, kill with aplomb.

@zombyturtle

Hand size aside, I would never play a game using any key beyond the vertical 5, t, g, b line on my keyboard. I remapped my keys all within fingers’ reach. I have done so with all mmos, WoW warrior tank included, using ctrl, alt, etc. Lucky for you, neither alt nor control is necessary in this game. Here is my layout:

Attunement/Class Skills (You will use these often as an ele.):
1-4

Weapon Swap (n/a for an ele, but mapped all the same):
Mouse-3 (middle mouse button/wheel)

Movement:
W: Forward
S: Backward
A: Left Strafe
D: Right Strafe
Jump: Right and Left Mouse Buttons (thumb and pinky on a typical 5-button mouse)
Dodge (the USEFUL jump): Space

Attack:
1-5: Q, E, R, F, Z

Heal:
Shift-R (This is a holdover from my WoW days; shift-anything would suffice.)

Utility:
1: X
2: C
3: V

Elite:
Shift-Space

Hope this gives you some ideas. Ele is a tough class to play, but so rewarding in both pve and pvp. You have to be fearless enough to jump into combat and quick enough to use all of your skills and attunements. The day Anet lets me swap weapons I will be a D/D god.

Also, @Suctum, I find that churning earth works fine after a well placed earthquake. By this time, the smart ones usually would rather run than attempt a CC, if they even if they have CC off CD. The dumb ones… meat on spikes. Also, when defending points, in all the chaos, there are sometimes players unknowingly running into the ring right as it goes off. While it should be well placed, I usually find a way to use our most damaging skill when it is up.

Just a pet peeve of mine, but big does not equal slow, stupid, unskilled, or loud. Should you wish to disagree, I have some counter-examples for you:

Achilles (the original in the Iliad, not Brad Pitt): when he lost his armor to Hector, he argued that he could not fight because there was no fitting armor to be found, except, perhaps, Ajax’s. AJAX’S. Nobody would argue he was small. I know this is fictitious, but the implication is that the Greeks associated size with skill instead of opposed to it.

Military men: some buff kitten Navy Seals would disagree and could kick your kitten either quickly or quietly, regardless of their size.

And of course, there is the realm of sports. Here are some vids of huge dudes with speed and skill taking thoughful, decisive action:

This guy would like a word with you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRix6bbR-cY

And there is this guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDg47aRXDB0&

This guy was no lumbering moron either: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H56dQ5Lm298

Also, though it is CGI, watch this, because never before has a big dude been given so much respect in a video game trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwUAv-SSZqw

Having played a few characters to the early 20s, I decided to stick with the elementalist, mainly because I like the animations, the gear, and the 4-part attunement switch. But, holy hell, this class seems useless. Less survivability than any of the other classes, less control than the thief, and less damage than anything I have played, including the guardian (toss a greatsword on my guard and the ele can’t compete). And, yes, I have tried D/D, S/D, and switch to the slow staff for tougher fights. I attunement dance quite a bit as well. My gear is up to date and I run only on-level quests. Either the elementalist’s dmg needs to be increased, by around 100%, or ANet needs to find a different angle for this class: any angle would do.

With that said, story missions are making me put down this class, perhaps for good. Perhaps I will even put down the game. This is not a threat; I am just let down. Unless I roll guardian or warrior, I don’t feel I am playing this game as intended. It seems that content is tuned for these classes alone. If my warrior has higher toughness and 3x the HP, why doesn’t my ele do 3x the damage? In fact, my ele does less dmg, noticeably less. Butkitten I don’t want to play warrior and be one more face in an ever-growing crowd of plate-wearers.

But the story missions, oh god, the story missions. If I take my time, carefully exploit pathing and AI limitations, and die repeatedly as I learn the map, I can usually make it through, but it is NO FUN AT ALL to play this way.

For instance, I am on the level 16 story quest, “Darkness at Drakentelt.”
First run: pull some mobs, leopards jump in and two shot me; restart quest.
Second run: carefully pull each leopard one at a time, using trees as roadblocks as I kite; begin to pull Svanir carefully and my NPC companion pulls a different group; stunned; 2-shotted; I die; restart quest.
Third run: do the above; get lucky, no NPC shenanigans; kill svanir; run to the green star; zerged without warning by elementals suddenly appearing in melee range; I die; restart.
Fourth run: do the above, except I know the elementals will spawn; baby step towards the star with air attunement on, ready to cast swiftness; after major kiting and stance-dancing like a boss, I beat them; story time and veteran appears; unseen, a couple of elementals spawn out of sight behind me; I notice the explosive shards conjured at my feet just in time and dodge; then I am out of endurance, pop earth shield, get pounded by the elementals while I am being chased by the vet whom I have entirely ignored in a vain attempt to lose aggro; he hits me, twice; I die.
Fifth run: quit elementalist and perhaps the game.

What frustrates me the most is that I know that could steamroll this quest on my warrior or guardian while eating dinner and doing my taxes at the same time. Hell, if I put down my fork, I could do it on my thief, too.

Anet, I do not ask that you change the difficulty of the story mode. I simply ask that you justify the existence of the elementalist. The number of hoops you have to jump through to be below par, but at least playable, is ruining the game for many players.

From what I heard, the class was once balanced, but some exceptional players played this class so well it was OP. You then nerfed the elementalist so that these players had to use all of their leet skill to be simply mediocre. Can’t we find a happy middle? Let the leets be a little OP. Many games thrive on the concept of a difficult to play but rewarding character/class. As of now, a blind monkey punching the keyboard would still make guardians OP. Why can’t exceptional players make the ele OP?

Just play an elementalist through the story, and tweak the class until the story mode is at least close to as easy as it is for ranger, thief, or, if you are feeling generous, guardian. Use the story as a baseline for class competency.