Guild Wars 2

I like the spreadsheet. Great way to show best case scenario dps with a stationary target. How many times did you do the test with each pet? Just once or is this an average of “X” number of times? Also, you should do the same test on the moving golem that’s running around the pillar/rock. The results are significantly different and may surprise you.

It’s not effected by your healing power. It’s effected by your pets. The only way to increase your pet’s healing power is through compassion training in the BM traits.

jubskie.3152:

GJ on the vids, I enjoyed watching them

I’ve been using LB/GS for a long time now in WvW as well. LB has been my favorite weapon since i started using it when I reached 80. I just feel it has more oomph than a shortbow. GS just adds so much mobility to rangers that it makes it really hard for me to swap it for something else.

Yes on the GS mobility. I’ve tried to like other weapons in WvW but I can’t go without swoop.

For these videos I used two sets.

Some were with a full cleric set…both armor and jewelry. For that build I just go as bunker/regen as possible and use healing spring. Dwayna runes. I have over 3k armor with decent power, little to no crit, and regen about 450/sec on myself and about 800/sec on my pet. 0/0/30/15/25

The majority were with a set consisting of PTV chest and legs, knights shoulders and valk gloves, helm and boots. Zerk neck, one zerk access and 3 knights. 0/20/30/0/20. I use Troll Ungeunt unless in group with that build. Have to go 20 in Skirm for reduced LB on that one so I’m missing out on Natures Protection which is pretty important. For that reason I use Earth Runes on that set for the protection proc to make up for it and I love the projectile block at 20% health. I know the set sounds really mix and match but I’m looking at final stats…not having a matching set. With food it’s at just shy of 3k power, 42%ish crit rate, 40% crit dmg and over 3k armor. Omnom pies for 338 health on 60% of my crits on this build means a rapid fire or barage can give me a couple thousand health sometimes.

Back piece is Ascended PTV quiver for all builds.

Black Scoutsman.5830:

I watched the videos and I have to say at first, I was tempted to say that the enemies were sub-par, but after watching the full length of the video I’d have to say that I agree with everything in ur original post.

I didn’t use any videos of downleveled players other than the knock off the cliff one or if they were with a legit 80 in a 1v2. I also didn’t use a bunch where people were extremely over the top poor players (probably new to the profession or something). I legitimitely used the fights with the best players I encountered. Were they the best duelers in the game….of course not. But, they were the best I could find on a T2 WvW server in two nights. That said, I know there are some great players out there….some much better than myself.

I hope you feel better now that you were able to insult me Nerva. I’m a little more mature than that so I’m going to remain civil despite your blatant lack of tact.

Please post your vids of dominating 1v3 against good players like your saying you do.

You are entitled to your opinion Nerva. I’m sure your build and your weapons are great. It was not my point to say other builds or weapons are trash. As I said from the begining. I just want to demonstrate that LB can work for in-your-face battles. That’s part of the beauty of this game and of the Ranger in particular. We have a lot of really good weapon choices, and I do literally use them all in certain circumstances (especially different dungeon scenarios).

Malleus Maleficarum.2603:

I switched not too long a ago from a SB traps build to LB GS jaguar focused and I like it a lot. I even started planning to craft kudzu since it fits a sylvari ranger so well…. So I was wondering is Kudzu worth the effort? And also how long did it take?

It took me about 3 months to make it Malleus. Stats wise there’s no reason to have it, but I wanted a Legendary longbow as a personal goal so to me it’s worth it yes. Go for it. It’ll look better on your Sylvari than mine does on me!

nerva.7940:

thats not skirmishing. those are mostly 1on1’s. none of your opponents even know how to use their profs, and it takes you about 7 minutes to kill two complete newbs. you dont fight a single competent opponent. i could spec conditions, use sword/horn and do the same thing u did.

as already known, LB builds have zero sustain. you have no sustain in those vids and your damage is paltry. you basically demonstrate that LB is a terrible 1v1 weapon. in a small skirmish where you might have 2-3 opponents on you at a time, you would fold like paper.

I guess I misunderstood what you wanted Nerva. I thought you wanted 1v1 close range skirmishes since you said you have to stick with a zerg and go glass cannon in order to use LB. In none of these did I stick with a zerg or go glass cannon at all. Several of those opponents do know what they’re doing, they just get interrupted and cc’d when they try to do it. I spent two nights looking for duels and those were the best opponents I ran accross so I’d say it’s a very realistic view on what anyone could expect who wants to roam. Yes, I’m sure their are better opponents out there but I didn’t run accross any in my two nights of recording. Yes the one fight is long and as I quoted in the video I should have stomped two previous times. You said you wanted to see bunker LB right? That obviously means the fights may be longer due to reduced damage.

I have no sustain? My heavy 0/0/30/15/25 bunker build wearing full cleric armor and accessories (used in some of those fights) has just as much sustain as any ranger bunker does. How can you say it doesn’t? Both builds used in those videos have plenty of sustain.

Videos made…as promised.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Skirmish-With-a-Longbow

The Longbow/Greatsword Ranger

I made these videos per requests in another thread. The general consensus in the thread was that Longbow is only good for long range fighting and hugging the zerg and is not good for skirmishing. While I do believe short bow is great for skirmishing, I believe LB is a very capable skirmishing weapon and for some builds/play styles may even be superior.

The discussion was also that you have to give up too much survivability (WS and BM) in order to effectively use LB. I used two builds for these videos and neither produce any kind of mega dps or give up survivability. Both have 30 in WS. One has 25 in BM and focuses on healing/regen and the other has 20 in BM and focuses a little more on crit and life steal.

After defending LB as a good skirmishing weapon I was asked by multiple people to make a video demonstrating that it could effectively do it. So….I downloaded Bandicam and spent the last two nights roaming and looking for duels. LB/GS is a complimentary weapon set that I like for all aspects of the game (PVE, PVP & WvW). I’m not claiming to be the best duelist in the game or OP in any way as I’m sure there are much more talented players out there. I just want to show that LB can be used effectively in skirmishing situations. Really the video is just as much about GS as I find they compliment each other well and switch often.

I’m not discounting SB’s prowess as a skirmishing tool. It’s great for it. Just don’t dismiss LB as a power/crit/glass cannon/zerg hugging only weapon.

http://youtu.be/NUvNw1LdPdM

http://youtu.be/bcd4a-RBg1k

edit = spelling

xev.9476:

darb.9231:

. Yes….it has more control than SB. No…you don’t have to give up points in BM or WS to use it.

I love the longbow hate though…..that way people don’t know how to react when skirmishing with me because all they see are SB rangers!

Although I suggested a video, I was hoping you’d at least start to defend these sorts of claims. You keep posting assertions unaccompanied by any argument. How in the world does the LB have more control than the SB, for instance? SB has shorter CDs, an extra evade, poison to mitigate enemy healing, a cripple, and a daze/stun. LB has one knockback (with a long cast time) and a long CD AoE cripple that’s super easy to dodge.

Xev – Short bow is great. Many (most) will agree with you that it’s better than long bow. For my playstyle and as a fit with my other weapon (GS) I prefer LB. Using a different off weapon I might prefer SB, but not with GS. I’ll respond to your questions, but I’m only giving my view as everyone will play it/see it differently

LB and SB both have different kinds of control. SB evade, poison, cripple and daze/stun are excellent. However, I already get the evade, cripple and daze/stun from my GS and LB has other kinds of control going for it:

Want to know where that thief went? Rapid fire tracks him for 5 secs on an 8 sec cool down. So handy.

Want to apply 10 stacks of vulnerability and give your pet swiftness? Use Hunter’s shot every 12 secs.

Is that warrior getting to close? Use point blank shot to knock him back 600 distance. Available every 12 secs. Also very entertaining to knock people off high places to their death.

Now that you knocked that warrior back use barrage directly between you and him. I promise he’ll come back at you and he’ll be wading through damage and cripples while he does. I know you say it’s easy to dodge but that’s only if you use it too far away from yourself. Use it near or even right on yourself and stay in it to force them to come into it or to stay at bay. It continues raining arrows after the channel giving you a chance to switch to mele and double up your damage while your pet benefits from easier hits due to the cripple.

Really it’s all playstyle. You like short bow and I like long bow. Neither of us is wrong, we just play it differently.

I’ll satisfy your video requests as I stated earlier in this thread I’d make a video. Just downloaded Bandicam last night after reading about how LB is worthless for skirmishing. Let me get a little footage and figure out how to get it on youtube. Don’t expect some God Mode craziness. Just expect a video that shows LB/GS can be great for skirmishing. It allows you to control the fight. Really the key is putting it all together. Use both weapons and your pets to their potential and you can make any weapon work well.

Let me be clear that I’m not discounting SB as it can be great too and I know most Rangers will defend it as the top Ranger weapon to their graves. There are still certain situations where I use SB. All I’m getting at is that you can successfully use LB in skirmishes. Is it perfect…..no…..does it ever miss….sure! It’s not an auto attack weapon at all so you can’t compare it to shortbow that way. If you want to stand back and auto attack then definitely use SB. I’ve used both extensively and they both have strong points. I prefer the dynamic play of LB.

No…..you definitely don’t have to go glass cannon with it. Yes….it has more control than SB. No…you don’t have to give up points in BM or WS to use it.

I love the longbow hate though…..that way people don’t know how to react when skirmishing with me because all they see are SB rangers!

nerva.7940:

i’ll give you an objective assessment. ive been using the LB for months. it’s used for two reasons: a deadly burst with quickness, and barrage.

the rapid fire burst is almost always nullified if the opponent has an awareness of you. that being said, with a proper build you can actually flank someone and if you pet is there, burst them down for 20k damage. it’s a very gimmicky build.

the often-flaunted 1500 range is next to useless against moving targets (again, only useful for barrage). LB is not really a skirmishing weapon, but unfortunately it lands its arrows most reliably at about >900 range.

LB builds are weaksauce. they have no sustain and you’ll basically be tied down to a zerg. the low firing rate of LB exclude it from proccing heals on crit with food in an efficient way.

i ran an LB trap build for zerg warfare and it’s very effective. understand its role and you’ll enjoy it. meaning, dont try to skirmish with it.

overall, the SB is a much more powerful power/crit weapon because you can skirmish with it, and it reliably proc heals from food. it also synergizes better with traps.

overall, LB is a very confined, niche weapon in need of some serious changes. hope that helped.

@ OP – Please note that this is Nerva’s objective opinion. I respect that most would view the LB this way based on it’s obvious strength at range and in zerg warefare. I dissagree, though, that it is a poor skirmishing weapon when used properly. I believe it is superior to SB for skirmishing as well and I’ve put 100’s of hours into SB and well over 1,000 on LB. I don’t even trait into the 1,500 range with it 90% of the time. For some SB will be better. For others…LB. I do have niche situations where I do still use SB but they are few and far between. That said, SB is a fine weapon and very deadly in the right hands.

I keep hearing this about both Longbow and Greatsword and catching flack because that’s what I use. I’m sold on them both to the point I crafted Kudzu and Vision of the Mists a couple of months ago.

It’s no secret that long bow is great at long range, but it can be awesome for up close skirmishing too if you build for it. I honestly think LB/GS is the best weapon set for PVE, PVP and WVW hands down.

I also hear LB isn’t good for a BM build. I’ll go get some 1v1’s using a LB/GS and a build that’s completely bunker BM and another that’s mostly bunker BM with some skirmishing thown in. Shortbow has a lower learning curve than LB for skirmishing for sure, but get good at LB and it rocks. Never done the video thing so give me a day or two to video and figure out how to get it on Youtube. Watch for it soon.

DancinPuppeh.8421:

RummyTheMad.7290:

Nice! It wasn’t necessarily a concern of mine, but more knowledge certainly never hurts. Thanks for sharing Dancin.

No problem, also on a side note this is with no healing power stat additions, I’m not sure if healing power alters it, but with 0 bonus to healing it’s 1%

Healing power alters it greatly and if you have no healing power there are much better utility options than Signet of the Wild. SotW doubles in effectiveness with healing gear.

“stealth trolling rangers”

Throw Feathers/Blinding Tuft, Hide in Plain Sight or Runes of Infiltration are the only ways I know Rangers can independently stealth.

Edit: Just thought about this since the Jan update. I guess under water you could do a jellyfish “Dark Water” followed by a Drake tail swipe for area stealth. Haven’t tried it but it’s a legitimate combo I would think.

Electro you are correct that their F2 is a buff that applies conditions to their basic ability so it hits as reliably as normal. However, the buff is not “used up” if they miss. For example….Forrest spider F2 says it applies poison on your next 3 attacks. What it really does is apply poison on your spiders next 3 “spit” attacks that hit. If it misses, no biggie it will still apply on the next hit. Application is on “spit” only, not on poison gas. I’ve tested this thoroughly.

If you go 20 BM with Intimidation training not only does the Forrest spider apply poison on it’s next 3 hits it also applies cripple each time. Yes, 3x for like 15 total seconds of cripple and even longer duration poison. Cave spider is also excellent with this by applying weakness, vulnerability and cripple on its next 2 hits after using F2. These two spiders + Intimidation training provide unbelievable lockdown and condition application on any class you may come up against.

None of this even takes into consideration Malicous Training which would increase all these condition durations by 50%.

This is severely overlooked and I hate to even clarify this for fear of nerf but since the OP brought it up I couldn’t help but clarify.

Abominable Snowman with spamable 1500 range AOE Chill

Proud member of TV here. Want WvW….we’ve got plenty of it and many Commanders. Want dungeons….plenty of that too. Want exploration…join! We’ve got it all!

When i say “minimize inventory” I mean I make it as small as possible and put it over to the side of my screen. With a little practice you can use your horn extremely easily and quickly out of combat with a couple of clicks. Double click it…hit 5…double click the same spot and you have your weapon back. Literaly takes <1 second to do it. Also in PVE it’s handy to have the window up for not only the horn but also to use the Ash Legion Spy kit. In trouble or need to rez someone? Pop a spy kit and the mobs will leave you alone. I always have a 250 stack of them. 10 sec invis and you can just click on a new one every 10 secs and stay invis forever. Lots of other uses too. In the Fractal where you have to stand on the plate to keep the gate open but the mobs keep spawning…..just get on the plate and pop a spy kit every 10 secs and you can stand on it all day if you want. (sigh….probably an incoming nerf now).

Yes try the signet for thieves. The key is to hit it and then don’t dodge or move (attack just don’t run around) for the whole duration. They’ll exhaust their cooldowns on you as a stationary target and by the time you’re vulnerable they’re running on empty. Swoop, stun, pet swap (for quickness), maul….you get the picture….they’re in trouble.

What we really need is to be able to use about 20 more tait points

You’re right that birds are great. I use bird/dog in pve. I just love the dogs in PvP situations. That’s the beauty of our pets. They give us alot of options to go with our different play styles.

@ Obsidian. I’ve tried to like birds but they’re just not nearly as survivable in WvW and they don’t offer the knock downs, cripples, fear, etc that K9’s do.

Don’t feel like you have to be holding that silly horn all the time to use it. I just keep my inventory minimized on the side of my screen and when out of combat double tap it, hit 5, then double tap again to get my weapon back. If I need speed in combat I will usually have it from someone else or use Ramp as One (which I too use exclusively). Also I’m traited to get speed every time i wep swap.

If a thief jumps on me I pop my 6 secs invuln. Then I use barage all around me. Then I switch to greatsword and start swinging. Usually by then the thief is running away but if they still want to fight I fear them with the wolf and when they close back in I use the great sword block to interrupt them and knock them on their kitten With longbow/greatsword you can combat them very well.

@ Jon (and not too off topic, Obsidian, since can help with immobilize too) – Don’t neglect your regular Wolf in WvW. K9 knock downs and cripples are excellent, but It’s fear is awesome and it’s by far my favorite for there.

*You can send a whole group of attackers running.
*When starting an attack on a selected target pet swap. Your wolf will use it’s knock down very quickly if you’re traited for quickness on swap. Once he knocks them down use his fear and by the time they’re standing up they’ll be feared allowing you to hit quickening zepher and unload rapid fire into their back as they move away (I use Drakehound as my other pet and it’s immobilize will allow you to do similar). This combo gives you quite a head start to any fight.
*Use it when you get immobilized to keep them off you.
*Remember to use your pet abilities if you get downed. Every time I’m downed I use the wolf’s fear. Very funny to watch someone (or several someone’s) start a stomp on you and then run away in fear giving your allies time to show up or give you time to rally. Has saved me many many times.
*If a thief gets on you and goes into stealth. Fear him…..he’ll not like that at all.

By LR he means Lightning Reflexes and by gg’d he means he’s in trouble (good game’d).

Get good with longbow and greatsword and utilize pet abilities. Know all their tools and when to use them. You’ll be a force to be rekoned with in WvW at range and good enough in mele to do decent damage as well as survive.

I should note that GS MOBILITY is the number one reason to use it in WvW. Not only does it have very usefull other abilities but swoop is an amazing tool in WvW. It gets me out when i need to run and allows me to catch pretty much anyone that I want to. With a little practice it is unbelievably usefull.

Honestly I’d go 60 deep in Wilderness Survival if it was possible. That traitline has (for my play sytyle) by far the best tools, and I don’t feel kittened by my dps at all.

To address your concerns:
1) It does not work when your pet is dead. This has never been an issue for me. I use K9’s in WvW and with little management they are very rarely dead. Emp Bond is set it and forget it for me. I always have it traited and never worry at all about conditions. They are simply a non-factor when using it. Give it a try and I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised.
2) It’s rare you have to wait 10 secs, but yes that is possible. Be ready with other tools for when you get hit by immobilize. To take another sweet trait from the Wilderness Survival line pick up Shared anguish to eat one every 90 secs. Also take Hide in Plain Site for WvW/PvP. When you go invis for 3 secs the attacker loses you as a target and most often times moves on to another target. This can happen every 30 secs and is a must have. Additionally you can use any attacks that incorporate a dodge (varies by weapon) or use your GS block and knock them on their behind. Have lighnting reflexes on your bar for it’s dodge as well, plus that puts your endurance in hyper drive for dodges as soon as you’re free. If I’ve exhausted all that I’m also 30 deep in Marks and have signet of the BM for 6 secs of invulnerability. Using all those tools, immobilize is not going to take you down and likely nothing else is either.

I’m not saying your concerns are not legitimate Obsidian. I’ve run up against the same hurdles, but I’ve adjusted my build and playstyle to the point they are a non-issue.

Easy fix. Use Troll Unguent for your heal and spec 30 into Wilderness Survival for Empathetic Bond. Troll Unguent keeps you mobile and healed and Empathetic Bond is the best condition removal tool in the game. Removes ALL conditions every 10 secs.