Showing Posts For flowcyto.5671:
Sylvari’s Take Root if you just want a different and potentially good elite. But I wouldn’t choose a race just based on that. This class can certainly work around its current selection of elites just fine enough, and for pve at least the glyph elite works great if you use the right attune to fit the situation.
I really just wanted more than a few builds (looking at you, SB and S MH + signet of malice and dodge-a-trops builds) to be effective and worth the effort in pve, but I wasn’t feeling the risk:reward ratio in anything else, tbh. Its not a bad class in pve, but its best options are pretty dull.
Lvl 80 warr was quite effective and w/ more potential weapon setups. Not a dynamically interesting class, but def overall more effective a pve class than the thief.
Lvl 80 engie was FUN and had lotsa of options. I grew particularly fond of the ‘shotgun’ feel of the rifle and its burst + control, bomb heal specs, gadgets, and the elixir gun for group support. Not all options are well done (grenadier trait too good atm, tool kit and turrets are lacking, flamethrower needs better scaling, sigils dun work on kits, etc), but the class is quite varied enough that its like going to a soda fountain as a kid- you just want to start mixing different things together and see what results.
Tried leveling a Guardian, but it just felt too plain. Tried a Mesmer too- but just absolutely hated the illusion mechanic in pve and the class’s low access to move speed buffs. I’ve never liked the ranger/hunter or necro/warlock archetypes so not touching those.
But then.. I tried the monster that is the D/D tank 0/10/0/30/30 aura share build for the Ele.
Oh.
My.
God.
Once you go D/D ele and start realizing all that it can do, everything else seems incredibly dull in comparison… cause it is.
Sometimes the first shoe doesn’t fit; that may still be the case for you, OP. It def was for me.
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Okay, I’ll be a bit more specific: single target damage options are the most lacking to me. AoE options for this class seem fine, really.
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Aside from bugfixes and such: More damage. On everything.
I’d hate to make it sound so simple. I have a 80 warr, engie, and thief already and I’m loving the ele the most by far. But.. yeah.. more dmg pls, Anet.
Since you took elixir bombs trait, I’d take 2 gear options- one more defensive and supportive, and the other more balanced build that has more offense.
Support build is w/ Power/Toughness/Healing gear (Cleric’s), but w/ shaman medallions/crests (pwr/vit/heal), so you have a mix of high power, healing, and toughness, but a decent amount of health too. This is more for the aoe healing on bombs, which can get up to 500-600hps in an area @ lvl 80 (not too bad). Damage isn’t as high, but ur power is good at least and you are quite tanky.
More balanced build is a mix of Knight’s (pwr/prec/tough) and Valkyrie’s (pwr/vit/crit%); bomb heals are weak, but its better for dps w/o being too squishy.
I wouldn’t recommend full on glass cannon (Zerker’s) gear since bombs require you to be up in peep’s faces and we’re not a high-HP/armor proff, but if you like to live on the wild side (kill them before they kill you).. go ahead. In PvE condition dmg is only gonna help the fire bomb’s damage, as confusion doesn’t proc often, so I’d pass on that stat.
Try to align ur big ol bomb w/ fire bomb’s detonation (maybe lay BoB first, since it has a longer delay) and ya can give 3 stacks of area might. Can also use the mine gadget for an extra blast finisher on a shorter cd (more area stealth_might; it also knocks back). Keep in mind ya can kite packs of melee enemies around obstacles just setting bombs behind you- can be handy if you get in a pickle in dungeons or w/e. Usually use elixir C to deal w/ conditions more often, but that’s up to you.
Also, enhance performance trait doesn’t trigger from anything but using the ‘6’ skill, though that does mean if you spam med pack equip ya can get 3-6 stacks of might rolling just by that. I’d prob take the 10% extra explosion dmg instead if you went 30 into explosives- its just less hassle for more damage.
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flamethrower
i kill it with fire. all day everyday
Its too bad the flamethrower at higher levels becomes more like the mild discomfort-thrower.
Oh, as to why to play the engineer- well.. if the grenades, bombs, turrets, flamethrowers, darts, ‘boomstick’, and quaffing crazy alchemical concoctions doesn’t seem like enough, then you can always finish off an enemy with a battering ram from your crotch.
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That said, I still very much believe that BS builds need to be more rewarding in pve.
Depends on what you mean by “BS builds”. A PvP-style BS build was completely focused on frontloading lots of damage/effects and getting off one very solid high-damage hit to get your target down fast.
BS as a PvE concept is very good, it is a nice bit of bonus damage for attacking out of stealth. It rewards high damage and high stealth. What it does not (and should not do) is support using it as your primary damage method.
‘BS build’ meant a catch-all to distinguish it from condition builds that use LBD bleeds more for D/D.
I think we just disagree on the ‘rewarding’ part. I don’t think it is enough in pve, even if its just a finisher to infrequent stealthing, and I’m not sure we could change each other’s minds on that, but my experience from other classes just told me ‘Hey, this thief guy just isn’t working nearly as well for you; you don’t pvp and are tired of the SB, and don’t see the point of Sword MH and P/P setups since you have a warr; whaddya gonna do?‘. While D/D has other options for offense, and that’s okay, I’m left wanting w/ D/P and BS in general in pve and wondering if our init system and high auto-attack damage is the real culprit (prob is, but what can ya do at this point if that’s the case?).
It sounds like you know how to make D/P work. I’ve tried a few things since the other builds, aside from D/D, just didn’t click w/ me as interesting or very ‘thievy’. I like the powder+leap+BS combo and the thought of getting rewarded for it- its a very cool one and it makes me feel like I’m actually playing a stealthy assassin type class that no other proff gives me the feel of, but that reward just didn’t seem much when dagger auto-attack is so high and much easier (highest BS crit I’ve gotten in Orr, w/o AS, is 5k-ish in Fine zerker gear, AA chains do 1-2k every quarter a second by comparison and don’t take 7-9 init and at least 1.25 secs to setup :/). Have you been able to make it work w/o, say, just chaining shadow shot or AA-ing till 25% HP?
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AS nerf was fine, OP; ur hatred is misguided. This wasn’t a re-do of the PW nerf.
Looking for where I said this was a “re-do of the PW nerf”. Nope, never said it. The word “hatred” is a tad overly dramatic don’t you think? :P As for my frustration with the PW nerf, it is well deserved and it’s obvious I don’t stand alone. They nerfed the wrong thing. Period.
Right, but that was just one nerf that had that sort of marked effect in pve since release (it was dumb, yeah, and I dunno if any reasonable person here would agree that it was the better way to go instead of addressing haste itself). I think ur being a bit quick to jump the gun; the latest changes should actually have given you some confidence in ANet’s ability to balance. Its still too early to tell w/ this game regarding the whole pve vs. pvp thing, and we’ll all have to keep in mind that GW1 was not much a pve game and give ’em some slack for this outing- for now.
AS nerf was fine, OP; ur hatred is misguided. This wasn’t a re-do of the PW nerf.
That said, I still very much believe that BS builds need to be more rewarding in pve. IMO, they are by far the most dynamic to use w/ high positional and health threshold dependence for its basic rotation, and costly ini use to enter stealth as well as playing around the revealed debuff, and the stealth-on-demand aspect opens up extra defensive or mid-combat planning options more frequently than w/ the other setups. Not to mention that when solo mobs behave very erratically w/ regards to stealth, and that further throws an wrench in setting up flanks at any given microsecond since you can’t know how mobs will randomly path or face in this game.
But why barely kill one target at a time slightly faster (if done right) than other setups when you can just put on the signet of malice and autoattack cleave everything w/ a Sword mainhand, or stay back and spam clusters at groups of enemies? Oh wait, you have dodge calatrops- oh boy! dodging- such engaging, unique gameplay! snore Yeah, I have more fun KITING MOBS AS A GS WARR than I do playing most of the ‘good’ thief setups for pve, and that’s not counting crushing everything under my heel in melee w/ GS normally and having great burst mobility w/ a S/Horn swap.
I love D/P’s playstyle- I really do. Its one of the few reasons I even glance at my thief on the char select screen anymore, but its just not rewarding in pve for all the limits it has, the setup it takes, and how innately squishy the class is. Shortbow may be good and pretty fun, but I figured out its use well before I needed to look-up any resources on this game and was abusing the hell out of the thing when leveling because it was so safe/good at aoe. I dun want to use the SB that much anymore, even if its destined to be hip-tied as my 2nd weapon swap for anything and everything- been there done that, didn’t roll a thief to stay back and fling arrows, etc etc. What are my other options?
S/P: effective, but boring; feels more like I’m playing a warr in leather, but less interesting.
S/D: more interesting than above, not as effective or versatile, its unique attack still kinda sucks and behaves oddly; pass.
P/P: pretty effective, but quite boring and little to no aoe/cleaves/pierce (bar a weak ricochet trait) and no control outside occasional interrupts. Unload is a cool anim, but using it ad nauseam isn’t cool.
P/D and/or LDB builds: no thanks, I’m not into cond builds and don’t want to make yet another gear set for a build I’m not sure I’ll like anyways.
D/D-BS: the closest analogue I have to D/P, but its terribly squishy since it doesn’t rely on LDB and doesn’t have any blinds- it can cleave w/ dancing dagger spam and has more single target dmg than D/P. Woohoo? Just like w/ D/P, it has a dynamic rotation and setup but just not enough payoff- esp not in a game where aoe/cleaves count for so much in groups and not being a (non-warr/guardian) melee is the simply best way to not get killed as a melee’er.
I guess the thief, my first toon to 80, just isn’t for me. I am too reluctant to stick with non-dagger MH builds, but I just find the others so boring and/or un-thief-like that if I focused on them I’d simply just wonder why I’m not playing a diff class instead.
ANet, gimme a reason to want to play BS-dagger build in pve; until then, my thief will stay in Lion’s Arch as a beachbum and enjoy the ale while his warr, engie, and ele friends go have fun out in the world. I mean, even if the other proffs have weak things (and they all do, like engie flamethrower) at least they’re is still fun/entertaining.
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Highly recommend you replace P/P w/ Shortbow. SB saves the class from being useless in zerg or aoe situations and makes up for the majority of the class’ shortcomings (wish it all wasn’t so tied to one weapon, though). You get easy constant access to aoe poison w/ heal debuff, aoe weakness w/ the poison cloud → cluster bomb combo, aoe burst w/ cluster bomb detonation spam, an combo evade+cripple w/ the #3 skill, an auto attack that naturally cleaves, and a way to close ground or help you escape w/ blinding arrow.
Its a good backup weapon for any melee setup like D/D and will serve you better at range in W3 than P/P ever could.
Hmm, lotsa things I enjoy about this class.
I really like the rifle- just in general. Its so entertaining to use. Overcharged shot may be my fave ability in the game for the lol factor. Wish the damage was better and there was more to do at long range than autoattack, but as a ‘shotgun’ its sweet.
I adore the bomb kit so much you’d think I was Rumsfeld, and the bomb heal trait is nice. Carry around a 2nd blast finisher to combo off the fire bomb, elixir C for cond removal and buffing, and aoe things like mad. I dunno how to describe it but its just a fun spec to get in people’s faces w/, even if the dmg and healing isn’t much, it adds up over time.
I like our various gadgets and many of the toolbelt skills- battering peni- I mean ram, rocket boots, charr’s hidden pistols (plural) toolbelt skill, big ole bomb, mine knockback. Also like the med kit in general for all the things it provides (mainly, keeping me up between dodges and heal cds, and for the easy perma-swiftness when running around).
I like the concept of our turrets.. just not having to ‘lug’ them around everywhere.
Its tough for me to justify rolling a thief for pve reasons, honestly, esp in light of things like GS warrs (got mine to 80 recently, holy crap did he tear stuff up solo, even in Orr. and he can take hits! many hits, actually; w/ S/Horn swaps he can cover lotsa ground and escape quickly too), and all the calls for pvp nerfs that will likely hit the class in pve too.
Orr mobs are tougher than mobs in prev areas, and perhaps more importantly, are everywhere. Their fast respawns, dense distribution, many debilitating/disabling moves makes escaping tough. You’ll def want condition removal for Risen, and consider getting some vit and toughness on ur gear (can mostly ignore healing gear, as the stat scales terribly). Prob the most rapid condition removal avail for a build w/ cloak and dagger is from the shadow arts tier 1 trait that removes one on stealth and 3 sec later if still in stealth, but shadowstep and precision signet are good utilities for removing conditions too.
Consider trying alternative weapons as well. For melee S/P is good for cleaving multiple mobs, has easy and constant condition removal w/ infil strike, an interrupt, and a blind combo field you can stand in so enemies can’t hit you outside aoe. For ur ranged option, shortbow or p/d may be better than p/p cause the former can inflict aoe weakness easily (poison then cluster bomb fields), has an evade, short range teleport/escape in blinding arrow, and nice aoe damage which helps you greatly in tagging mobs in crowded events. P/D is great for kiting packs of melee mobs w/ dancing dagger, still has easy access to stealth w/ cloak and dagger, and works well w/ condition damage. D/P may seem odd an melee choice, but its blinds and ability to access stealth on demand w/o being in melee (blinding powder + HS = stealth) make it a great dueling spec w/ good gap closing that in a pinch can get away w/o needing to use utilities or having a mob in melee reach. In aoe, you can have on the signet of malice and get some decent healing returns from aoe moves like dagger storm, the calatrops on dodge trait in trickery, death blossom spam, and basic sword attack cleaves. If it gets too heated, stealth and try to run.
Ur not going to be a well-oiled killing machine like a GS warr, or a durable guardian; you can’t soak stuff in melee and just heal it back up- you have to dodge, blind, kite and/or stealth ur way around Orr.
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The uncanny burst is really the only over-tuned aspect to the thief in pvp, and the rendering issue isn’t a fault of the class. Being a good escape artist is fine and fits. I dun mind some of the complaints but it seems many people would rather this class be a warrior in leather w/ 3/5ths the health if they had their way w/ the game.
In hindsight, the way they handled stealth in this game was a bad idea in light of WvW; I’m not sure they or the customers are ready/willing to overhaul stealth just due to that, and even if they did it just show terrible form on ANet’s part.
0/30/10/20/10 (executioner, quick recovery, replen or cond removal on stealth, dodge-a-trops) is my default build that can be built to work w/ practically any setup since it has both high init regen and decent offense and defense options.
If you want a build that stealths more constantly (CnD, blind powder + leap, etc), then swap around condition removal on shadow arts for the 2 init on stealth trait and pick up some cond. clearing utilities like shadowstep. I mix knight gear w/ some valkyrie gear if I want more balanced stats for w/e setup I’m using (if mixing, its better to have valks on the gloves/boots/shoulders cause its more crit dmg% per stat allocation than it is on chest/helm/legs- unless I’m missing some hidden decimal values on the stat somewhere..).
Full glass cannon isn’t really a grand idea in pve, imo, unless all you use are our ranged options and never wade into melee-you aren’t a GS warrior or guardian. Being melee can be really perilous in this game, and there’s not enough dodges/escape moves to cover every single thing thrown at you when w/ a cannon build one mistake can cost you dearly, esp once you hit Orr.
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While this statement is true I don’t think any of the professions could really be considered “overpowered” in PvE. I hope the subtle intent of your statement wasn’t to point out some kind of thief PvE weakness though, because thieves are quite powerful in the majority of PvE situations.
Well, if you want me to be less facetious, I do think there are some UP and OP things about thieves in pvp, and some UP things in pve, but you could prob say the same of every class in one way or another. All the nerf talk just tends to get amped here more cause, well, the rogue archetype always draws controversy if its doing what it does best, and moreso in a pvp-tilted game like this.
I am worried of nerfs aimed at pvp that actually affect pve more, like the PW one. If they can isolate pvp burst issues like the 50% signet and haste, fine by me. But any such tuning down of a rogue’s main asset (burst) should come w/ some compensation elsewhere, imo.
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What’s not overpowered about Thieves?
Simple: Anything PvE related.