Guild Wars 2

Allie Murdock.8152:

[…]
The sPvP forums are specifically to discuss sPvP changes, or things that affect sPvP. If you would like to discuss PvE, please use the appropriate sub-forums.

Thanks!

Just stopping by to point this out. I’m not addressing you alone, but I definitely address you along with the few ignorant and arrogant (if the cap fits…) sPvP players, who often comes up with the “sPvP forum” trump card.
About shooting the messenger…yep, it’s generally considered to be undeserved, unless that very messenger provokes the crowd. This quote here is your own statement, not others’ opinion that you simply forward to us. This is the reason why I call you personally out – while I respect your work and effort you put into keeping in touch with the sPvP community.
You guys generally make changes balance-wise based on sPvP…changes that affect the two other game modes too, namely PvE and WvW.

One of these changes (Dhuumfire) buffed the class in sPvP significantly, while it did close to nothing in WvW and PvE. I’m not gonna give a fully detailed argument here as why it is the way, it is – several arguments can be found on the Necromancer forum with all the raw data and math involved. The same can be said about Torment and in general about all the damaging conditions – while it’s most likely a significant buff to sPvP, it does close to nothing in PvE and WvW. Again, I won’t make any argument to back this up as I’d like to keep this post short – others have already done it, check out those posts.

The other sPvP change, the last one (23rd July), destroyed the sole escape mechanic that necromancers had in WvW thus making the class severely handicapped in WvW.
Anyone who says that the Spectral Armor/Walk is buffed in general is just plain wrong and refuses to see the forest from the sPvP trees. The 1s CD is a huge nerf in WvW (and I assume in PvE too – no idea, never been really into it). Again, long and detailed argument could be made, but it’s already been, no point to copy-paste them.

To stress out my original point:
Dear Allie and anyone else who shares her idea,
if you want to keep sPvP forums clean from PvE’ers and WvW’ers, make topics concerning a whole class balancing issue in the respective class’ forum (or move them there after it’s been created on the wrong subforum like you pretty much do with other classes /cough/ thief nerfs).
If it’s not possible to do, at least stop complaining about actual Necromancers taking part in the conversation rather than only those who play a few hours just to get some kind of justification to cry out for a nerf hammer.
The quote above is just simply disgustful in the current state of the events.

ps: more players play on a single Borderland from all 3 realms on a given day than playing on the tourney, that takes several days to be done with. Bear this in mind.

^word

really, I wish I could add anything to the last comment, but honestly can’t do. It says everything in true fairness.

If you want a challenge, competition and it’s also important to you to be part of a good community, this is the place to be.

Coming from a WvWer’s perspective…

The end of the Kamikaze era is just one thing. Let’s bring up some pre-staged situations…

1. Roamers
You like small groups and small fights where skill lag does not interfere and you can bring it all on. You even have your 5-10 man group, everything is perfect. But then the zerg is coming…
What kind of tools do the professions have to make an escape attempt?
- thief: stealth + shadow step + shortbow
- guardian: stability + line of warding + block + aegis
- warrior: excellent mobility + stability + block
- ranger: stability + swiftness + leaps
- mesmer: invis + clones + portal + blink
- elementalist: extremely good mobility + static field + stunning aura + mist form
- engineer: mini + heavy CC

…just a few ways to bring up. Now what did necro have pre-patch?
Erm…pop Walk/Armor, try to survive, find a cliff and jump. We had no real source of stability, no leap at all and we are the least mobile class in the game. No vigor, nor increased endurance regen.
With the recent patch, it means a guaranteed wipe for a roaming necro if he meets the enemy zerg.

2. “Zergers”
Death Shroud itself melts in zerg fights. It did pre-patch, it does now. I don’t care if you’ve fixed a bug and tanks to that we have more effective HP in DS. Extra HP is only extra HP in the end of the day, not a mitigating/evading mechanic like channeled blocks/aegis/invuln./mist form/etc.
The only valid way for a necro to get his own invuln. or at least something close to that was Spectral Armor/Walk combined with DS.
It still heavily limited our skill cap, since we were stuck in Death Shroud, but at least we could maintain our LF pool, which was decent enough. Bear in mind though, that we had no access to any kind of buff/heal/regen. in this form which made it a bad alternative compared to the aforementioned mitigation methods. But still, an alternative…
Now you even took that away with the implemented internal cooldown on Walk/Armor. The maximum amount of Life Force gaining is 48% with Armor (68% if traited for longer duration). That’s without calculating in the damage taken in Death Shroud.

Now, let’s do a little bit of math here…
(I’ll call LF “effective HP” from now on, it pretty much works that way)

Based on this post, I’ll calculate with 50k effective HP in DS assuming the necro has 25k normally, which is an average value.
In this case 48% LF gain (let’s round it up to 50 for the sake of simplicity) means ~25k effective HP. That is ~25k in 6 seconds >> ~4.2k per second.
Now, add natural degeneration (that’s ~2k effective HP if not traited) which makes it only 2.2k effective HP gain per second.
What it means is, that the moment you take more than 2.2k damage per second this kind of effective HP regen. is as good as nothing and you will keep melting since HP -like I said above- is only HP.

This is the very reason why we don’t see many sPvPers/1v1ers complaining and they don’t get how big this nerf really is. While this scenario in sPvP/1o1 is not likely, it happens quite often in WvW/PvE.

I’ve accepted a long time ago, that necro is not and most likely will not be part of the “big guns”. Fine by me – I said – at least, I’m tanky and can survive most of the crap you throw at me. I may not be strong in terms of damage dealing but I can be hell of an annoyance and you won’t get rid of me (at least not by killing me).

And for those who say Necros should focus on condition damage: ever tried running condition build against an organized group on large scale WvW? Conditions need time to kick in and that’s exactly what they don’t have. They get flipped/stripped in seconds and thus countered and ripped from their full potential.
Any decent WvW guild/group runs a decent condition cleanse composition, anyone who plays WvW competitively knows that. Arguments that claims that Necro should be all about condition damage only shows that the person have minimal on no knowledge at all about the WvW meta.

Ciborio.1864:

You don’t play WvW, right?
You can’t use marks without “unblockable” trait and now you have to spend 20 points instead of 10 just for that, which is a pretty big deal for me.

^This

Inb4 you claim to be the defender of beginners…
you should really read what other people write – I stated that I’m no longer a necro main. that doesn’t mean I haven’t played the profession for months.
If you would be actually curious about my story, you would have checked my post history (it’s not even long as I tend to read the forums more than posting myself).
Had you done so, you would have seen that I made some quite lengthy and detailed posts regarding necro balance back in the days. Granted, not nowadays, but that doesn’t mean I don’t get on my necro from time to time to play it in ranked.

I’d suggest to follow Drarnor’s advice and let this one go. I will certainly do so.
My opinion stands still regarding the Elite. Yours too. I’d still have a lot to add to your last statement(s), as there are several incorrect argumetns in there, too, but seeing that you have a personal issue with me, I’ll refrain from that.

Let’s just forget that this has happened and call it a night.

Adding to my “CC” post and thoughts, I think another issue is that every class applies its damage the same way – i.e: Direct/Condi

A DoT necro is not unique cause other professions can apply DoTs as well, hell, some are even better at it. Thief is not the only class with a huge power spike: Rev, DH hit just as hard. You hopefully get my point.

I think this is a result of obvious lazy class design and “copy-pasting” mechanics instead of coming up with original design.
You want build diversity, I want class diversity.

As a result the transition from one role to another (which would be multiclassing in GW2’s case) is not that big of a deal.
We could see Pro players picking up Rev instead of thief and mastering it in no time just because apart from a few differences (which are minor looking at the bigger picture), the class has the same role and mechanics.

As others pointed out before me the No-Trinity looks good on paper and could work. But you need to come up with something to replace it, otherwise we will be (are) watching essentially players with the same roles bashing eachothers’ skull just like in an FPS.

The point I’m trying to make is that by making certain CCs, mechanics, conditions class-specific, the character could turn into a really special something and would indeed reflect the player’s playstyle.

The title “Pro Thief” would actually mean something and would reflect the fact that you are especially good at that one playstyle, which would require certain skill set.

But right now every class (and every player) is a bit of a jack-of-all-trades.

Just remove this useless line(s) of coding already and replace it with a meaningful trait.
stunbreak upon entering DS would be a nice start…

I’d advise anyone who’s looking for a new guild on Blackgate to register on our website http://www.blackgatewvw.com/
After you are done with the process, you should be able to see the recruitment section, which allows you to pick from the many we have.

Most of our guilds have a recruitment thread here, on the official forums as well.
You can also look for that.

just stopping by to say…
It’s awesome that for a tPvP tourney you actually kitten over 95% of the gaming community of the class, that is just…woah.
It’s not even sad anymore.

I’d highly suggest any mods to check the Necromancer forum too as there are some pretty detailed description about how this patch made Necros trash in a blink apart from your precious 1o1’s.

My Charr Guardian

inb4 GS/Sw-Sh, bullscharge warrior becomes the new roamer.
flat out ridiculous