Constructive necromancer thoughts.

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Posted by: Phantaram.1265

Phantaram.1265

I’ve played necro here and there since release but I’ve played necro at least 6 hours both today and yesterday and all in scrims with other good teams, so that is my experience on necro, just thought you guys should know that, moving on!

I’d like more experienced necromancers to comment on this but I feel like the necromancer playstyle is now in a pretty good spot. I can tank a really long time with deathshroud and it feels like that’s what a necromancer should be able to do since he can’t disengage. Instead of disengaging you press your deathshroud button and people go “oh, well lets attack something else.” Which if you have played with or against the right necromancer specs is exactly what goes through your brain when the necromancer pops a 100% deathshroud, heck even 50% deathshrouds.

For how tanky I am I do way too much dps though and also have insanely good support condis through tons of chill/poison/weakness etc. and this is where I want the community to come up with some ideas on how to get necromancer right.

For me the big thing that needs to happen is a damage reduction somehow, and a quite heavy one if you ask me. All the ideas I’ve seen and or have come up with I have seen some problems in so I won’t speak about what I think should happen because I’m not sure. I’ll leave it up to the community. So come on guys come up with something to reduce necromancer dps that fits well with where arena net is taking the necromancer.

Or if you disagree and necromancers need something else changed just say it, this is how I feel though.

TLDR; necromancers playstyle is cool with tankyness instead of disengaging but does too much damage on top of all their support and cc… and tankyness, come up with a way to reduce their damage in this thread. Or other tweaks you would like. Maybe necromancers are a little too tanky? They pretty much have everything but disengage right now so I’m open to any ideas.

Edit: As other damage in this game is nerfed though(as it should be), necromancer deathshroud will surely need to be decreased, but right now there is insane amounts of damage flying around so it strangely feels almost right, I just deal way too much damage on top of it.

(edited by Phantaram.1265)

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Posted by: Keyon.3841

Keyon.3841

Well, the idea behind a necromancer is to get in the fight and either die or kill.

That`s why necros got high damage and as of the last patch good sustain. They nerfed the fear and I think they should adjust the overall damage of burning in the game which is too high in my opinion.

Besides that I think it`s pretty balanced.

Position is really important when it comes to necros because if we are not careful we can still be bursted down pretty quick.

When plague is on CD and we just died and have no Life Force we are very killable.
For me it makes sense that the more you fight a necro the harder it will be.
Hard CC and high burst are our weaknesses. Most necros have 1 break stun on their utility slots.

What you suggest is to nerf all condis in this game which is impossible.

(edited by Keyon.3841)

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Posted by: Phantaram.1265

Phantaram.1265

Well, the idea behind a necromancer is to get in the fight and either die or kill.

That`s why necros got high damage and as of the last patch good sustain. They nerfed the fear and I think they should adjust the overall damage of burning in the game which is too high in my opinion.

Besides that I think it`s pretty balanced.

Position is really important when it comes to necros because if we are not careful we can still be bursted down pretty quick.

When plague is on CD and we just died and have no Life Force we are very killable.
For me it makes sense that the more you fight a necro the harder it will be.
Hard CC and high burst are our weaknesses. Most necros have 1 break stun on their utility slots.

What you suggest is to nerf all condis in this game which is impossible.

You are correct that no life force = very easy to kill necro, but with the proper build you will be swimming in life force very fast. The build being 30/20/0/0/20 with spectral armor as a utility. Necros are by no means squishy and beyond that do glass cannon level damage on top of cc and control conditions.

And I actually didn’t suggest anything. So these imaginary suggestions you say I mentioned are definitely impossible considering they are imaginary.

(edited by Phantaram.1265)

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Posted by: infantrydiv.1620

infantrydiv.1620

I played necromancer primarily before the patch and did fine with it in pvp.

The real problem with necro in my opinion now is not chain fearing or conditions (these are class mechanics that give the necromancer it’s unique appeal) …it’s the fact that it can do these things with a large health pool and amazing condition cleansing and transfers.

If you think about a necro with full life force and 25k HP as well as plague form, consume conditions and staff 4, it’s a huge counter to both condition and power builds (That’s basically the equivalent of a 90k effective health pool I believe). And all these things come at no sacrifice to burst potential.

In addition to that, so many of the necromancer’s abilities are AoE as well as being loaded with conditions as well as being on relatively low cooldowns. This makes necromancers easy to use spam tactics with and win.

Ranger//Necro

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Posted by: Shar.3402

Shar.3402

Problem with necro, is they can indeed dish out too much condition damage while having good defense once they get some life force (we’re talking about a ~40k health pool at full life force for a necro with rabid amulet and a 30/20/0/0/20 build, give or take)
10 stacks of bleeding + burning + poison + weakness/chill/cripple to cover them + terror is something like 3k damage per second…that’s a condi burst, not a condi pressure, and it’s AoE as well. And I didn’t even mention torment.
However, I have no idea how to balance necro damage without reducing condition damage across the board.

Shar Teel – Elementalist
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Posted by: Lopez.7369

Lopez.7369

I agree entirely with the OP. People need to stop focusing on how strong Death Shroud is now. Its intent was to be this strong all along because it’s supposed to replace vigor, blocks, evades, and immunities.

Now, maybe the damage is still too strong. I tend to agree with that, and I would like to see Terror nerfed more or at least switched with Withering Precision so it’s 30 points into Curses. (I honestly doubt Terror will ever work if necromancers are going to be balanced so they don’t need an engineer for burning for condition coverage, but it’s worth trying to move Terror up in the Curses trait line before outright removing it.)

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Posted by: Caffynated.5713

Caffynated.5713

Where do you even start? Now that I don’t need greater marks, I can get dhuumfire, terror and soul marks in the same build. They’ve turned necro into an unkillable god of never ending death.

Most condition durations are way too long. You look through low cooldown skills that have 14+ seconds of bleeding in a dhuumfire spec and just shake your head. A necro can throw every condition in the game on you for 14+ seconds. Other than rangers, who can possibly cleanse that? You end up perma crippled, weakened and bleeding for 2k damage per second without the necro having to make any special effort or sacrifice to put all of that on you. It’s beyond out of control.

Before this patch, bursting a necro in DS to burn through his life force and deny its offensive use was a good strategy if he was under 30-40%. Now that’s just throwing your cooldowns away. Since the patch, I’ve had people burst me and actually watched my life force go up. Who play tested this?

“We recognize that the changes to [ele] will essentially remove it from play. In the future,
we may consider whether or not there is an incarnation of [ele] that would be viable
but balanced. For now, we do not expect it to see serious use.” – ANet

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Posted by: Zenith.7301

Zenith.7301

Necromancer damage is high because epidemic exist. Change epidemic to 1-2 conditions copied and necro damage will take a hit.

Just try dueling condimancers without a pet. Their damage is nowhere near as bad, because they can’t put a condition on you and your teammate, epidemic off your teammate and suddenly doubling the condition load on you.

Conditionmancers get eaten alive by warriors and thieves and rangers and get outlasted by elementalists.

You also need to realize that death shroud seems fine because most fights in spvp don’t involve more than 4 people on a point.

In WvW Death Shroud at 30 soul reaping with spectral armor stills sees your death shroud gone in 3 seconds or less to a group of 10+, the necro has no disengage, and the inadequacy of death shroud compared to mist form or lightning flash or armor of earth or arcane shield or stealth or blink or distortion is pretty obvious.

spvp also exaggerates the value of necromancer’s epidemic because it forces people to fight on a very tight circle that also happens to be the size of marks and symbols and wells and pretty much every aoe field.

spvp doesn’t have guardian stacking or multiple staff eles running healing rain with water fields and guardian shouts, unlike spvp.

I think maybe fighting over a point should grant a buff that decreases the effectiveness of aoe skills. AoE condition skills have their durations reduced by 60%, and aoe direct damage skills are nerfed by 30%.

Or what if points detected when many people fought on it and started pulsing condition removal?

It just seems like necro is only part of the problem. After necros are removed it’ll be back to grenadiers/bomber engineers or clusterbomb spam on a point or a greatsword mesmer blowing people apart with berserker.

(edited by Zenith.7301)

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Posted by: Lopez.7369

Lopez.7369

Condition necromancers don’t get eaten alive by thieves or rangers, and they’re not outlasted by elementalists. Warriors are probably condition necromancer’s best counter in group fights, but they’re not good in one-on-one situations.

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Posted by: Zenith.7301

Zenith.7301

Condition necromancers don’t get eaten alive by thieves or rangers, and they’re not outlasted by elementalists. Warriors are probably condition necromancer’s best counter in group fights, but they’re not good in one-on-one situations.

If a BM/spirit ranger loses to a conditionmancer he’s just terrible. Sit on healing spring, bring signet of renewal plus empathetic bond, and pop elite spirit for extra condi removal.

And you’ve got to be kidding me if you think a s/d thief or p/d shadow arts condi removal thief doesn’t eat necromancers.

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Posted by: Lopez.7369

Lopez.7369

Thieves don’t beat condition necromancers, especially with the stronger Death Shroud.

If spirits are surviving that long against you, then you need to AOE them down.

But I honestly consider necromancers a hard counter to spirit rangers. I’m not sure what you’re doing wrong.

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Posted by: Ixl Super Ixl.7258

Ixl Super Ixl.7258

Necros definitely not OP
Check this out " first time necro" 1v4 lol.

http://www.twitch.tv/xsuperxgw2/c/2628743

Sidenote: For the sake of god! REMOVE FEAR FROM THE GAME!

(edited by Ixl Super Ixl.7258)

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Posted by: Lopez.7369

Lopez.7369

One of those was a necromancer, so it’s not a very good sample. You also killed two by knocking them off, which isn’t very impressive or relevant to balance.

Condition necromancers probably do too much damage, but you basically went to the zoo and beat up a bunch of defenseless animals.

Also, 1v4 means killing five people at once. That was not a 1v4.

(edited by Lopez.7369)

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Posted by: Ynot.8397

Ynot.8397

Necros definitely not OP
Check this out " first time necro" 1v4 lol.

http://www.twitch.tv/xsuperxgw2/c/2628743

Sidenote: For the sake of god! REMOVE FEAR FROM THE GAME!

That video shows what happens to morons. 1 necro just jumped around and did nothing. The one thief carried no break stun and got feared off the edge. Another died to the glass. The guardian was loaded with conditions without looking. This wasn’t a regular 1v4. It was a 1vinfants. GG

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Posted by: Blackjack.5621

Blackjack.5621

fear is fine, but the fact it´s instant sucks. I like the downstate fear WITH animation , so you have a realistic chance to avoid it.

I Zapdos I
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Posted by: Forsaker.9213

Forsaker.9213

ok i think we all agree that necro is doing too much presure with condi dmg , i think devs need to start lower the dmg but not to fast to not make necro usless again , my idea is in next patch lower the burning duration to 2s + lower fear dmg by 20%. I think necro is not so OP like ppl think , yes its strong and deals too much dmg and this is the only problem.

This patch change our DS to be able take more dmg and this is very good , necro dont have disengage skills and lacks stability so i think the whole change is good and necro from deff site should look like this but ppl who are QQing that necro now can take every burst on DS need to remember one thing , condi necro have very very low acces to gain LF.

I think some small change here and there and necro will be well balanced class in the game .

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Posted by: Blood Red Arachnid.2493

Blood Red Arachnid.2493

I’ve been playing a necro in sPVP since launch, and also I use a necro as my main in WvW. The necromancer, for all their strengths, has quite a few weaknesses.

The biggest problem with necros, and condition necros in general, is that both their offense and their defense is ultimately not in their own hands. While other classes get vigor or endurance regen for dodges, barriers that stop or reflect projectiles, shields that block multiple attacks, or straight up invulnerability, necromancers don’t get any of that. Their form of defense is to use blinds, chill/cripple, weakness a couple of scattered stuns, and life force generation/Death Shroud. The big problem with all these defenses is that they are stopped by stability, can be cleansed away, or require the opponent to make mistakes. Because of this, Necromancers don’t have a truly innate form of defense that they can use, other than being a big bag of HP. We have to rely on AoEs and Marks to land hits because we lack the lockdown abilities and the speed to land hits otherwise.

Combine this with the lack of mobility and disengage/maintaining engagement, and we come to what is the true problem with the necromancer: Our survivability is not in our control. How well we do is highly dependent on our opponent, and if they are built correctly AKA have a lot of condition cleanse or if they make good calls, there isn’t much the necro can do to fight back. That is the most frustrating part of using the necromancer in WvW: When I turn a corner on the map, my fate is ultimately decided by what is around that corner, and not what I can do. If there’s 4 enemy players there, I can’t escape or defeat them all so I die. If there is nothing there, then I am safe and I can continue going on. Whenever I get attacked by another player, whether I win is really about how they are built, and how good of a player they are.

I rarely ever make “skill shots” or pull wins from behind as a Necro. Either I win by a lot or I get pwned, and the lack of control on this matter just makes the Necro feel a bit helpless. They have a high skill floor, but a low skill ceiling, and this shows up a lot in play. I think this is where a lot of complaints while playing a necro comes from: while we can be considered bastions of power when on the field, we are also very helpless.

Necromancers have a lot of staying power with a full DS bar. It literally doubles our HP, giving us a ton of sustain in small scale fights. The two problems with it are that you have to get the Life Force to use it in the first place, and the second is that in large scale bouts DS melts in an instant. The bigger the fight, the more valuable dodge and reflects and blocks become, but the durability of DS is finite. Without an escape, there’s no way to stop being focused, so if you fall into that pack of ants you are done for.

I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.

(edited by Blood Red Arachnid.2493)

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Posted by: Blood Red Arachnid.2493

Blood Red Arachnid.2493

But we do have a lot of power. My concern is that this power may be working against us. The devs have stated multiple times that they are not giving a necromancer the tools other classes have for survival (stealth, disengage, vigor, invulerability, etc), so to compensate in a world where active defense is the only defense, they give necros a lot of passive defense and a crap ton of damage to boot.

Do we have too much damage? I’m not so sure. We have good AoE conditions, but the fact is that necros apply bleeds slowly, only 2 every 1.5 seconds or so with the scepter, and 3 every 4.75 seconds with the staff. To get bursts of conditions as a necro, I have to do some complicated maneuvers (spectral grasp + Weakening Shroud + Dark Path + Chillblains + Mark of blood into scepter/dagger for grasping dead and enfeebling blood, coming to 13 bleeds after blowing all my cooldowns), and our ace move Epidemic is hard to use, since if they cleanse before use it does nothing and if their partner cleanses after use it does nothing.

It just doesn’t have “Oh crap I’m at the cap!” feel that Condi rangers give, or the “My cleanses, they do NOTHING!” feel that Condi mesmers give, or that “OMG I’M ON FIRE!!!” effect that engineers have. The Mes and the Ranger are tricky and hard to fight, whereas the engineer is oppressive with either direct damage or high controls. The one gimmick we have to lay on the hurt as a conditionmancer is to stagger our fears to maximize terror damage. Against classes with low HP and if we’re lucky enough to have dhuumire proc, this can be quite dangerous. However, a stun breaker and/or stability ruins the chain.

It is rare for me to run a power necro other than a tanky minion master in PVP (which dies to AoEs and becomes helpless very quickly), but Power Necros suffer from a lack of reliable AoE and also have issues at range. Without any cleave, the necro relies on wells for AoE damage, but wells have the bitter flaw that players can simply choose not to stand in them, making them hard to use to that effect. Our ranged power weapon, the Axe, has incredibly short range and does so-so damage at best. Instead, we often rely on Life Blast for our ranged attack, which eats up our defense as we are using it.

Condi necros are slow to start and not in control of their own damage, power necros have tunnel vision and highly delayed AoE, minion masters are vulnerable to AoEs. Our offensive options, for all of their statistical clout, are quite limiting and have their own weaknesses. There are countless times as a Condi Necro where, despite spamming all of my AoEs, I can’t make a dent in an enemy player’s HP because they have dodged/blocked/cleansed literally everything I have done. Instead, my HP is plummeting for their constant attacks, and I have absolutely no way to defend against them.

While the Engineer suffers from the problem that the Devs have no idea what they want the class to do, the Necro suffers from the problem where the Devs have a clear idea what they want to do, and it just doesn’t work too well.

I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.

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Posted by: KarlaGrey.5903

KarlaGrey.5903

^Well said~

RIP ‘gf left me coz of ladderboard’ Total views: 71,688 Total posts: 363

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Posted by: Oidmetala.8426

Oidmetala.8426

Condition necromancers don’t get eaten alive by thieves or rangers, and they’re not outlasted by elementalists. Warriors are probably condition necromancer’s best counter in group fights, but they’re not good in one-on-one situations.

If a BM/spirit ranger loses to a conditionmancer he’s just terrible. Sit on healing spring, bring signet of renewal plus empathetic bond, and pop elite spirit for extra condi removal.

And you’ve got to be kidding me if you think a s/d thief or p/d shadow arts condi removal thief doesn’t eat necromancers.

oh ok, show me pls how spirit ranger win a good necro without use rez spirit ulti :P
if u face a necro without this ulti and most time this happens, because the rez spirit is important for teamfight, then its max 50/50 who will win this and not a sure win for spirit ranger, its more sure win for the necro when u dont dodge some fears with all the same animations…
and the necromancer can eat spirits fast from distance, because they dont dodge when ranger do it.

bm vs necro is also max 50/50, there it depends on what skills of all the same necro animations the bm dodge and which not, so its random.
i cant sit on healing spring, because i have to dodge for my live vs necro when hes a skilled player

atm necro feels unfair like hell, sry but its still op.
i duo joined with a friend, we both used necro and for me it was first time to play a necro on tourny.
we was just troll around and it felt so unfair to play a necromancer, sry but theres nothing more easy to play and kill enemys with atm…
and im rly bad necromancer…
a bad necro player like me looks balanced, but a main necro player is op atm and not just because player skills…

for the topic:
i also think necro need some slow not to huge “nerfs”
its op atm, but only in good hands…

for me, because i play guardian and ranger.
i would like to have some more different animations on necro, to be sure what skills i have to dodge there and not just random.
when he do some animation i can just think “oh ok, its maybe one important skill i have to dodge now, but which?”
but well, fights are fast, when he hit a fear most time i eat the next big dmg skill fast after that.
maybe fears should have a extra animations, because its much and important to dodge…
also the deathshroud fear comes to instant, i just can dodge, activate block when its still viable after necro go into this

i think vs necro the fears are the problem, it feels so lame when the fight goes to this point when i have no more skills rdy to help myself and get feared slowed and at same time i become so fast dmg from condis that it feels like burst…
when i have to survive necro with guard or 1vs1 him on spirit ranger, big help would be to see fear more easy coming, so i dont have to lose much dodges or blocks viable and have them longer rdy when i can more easy decide to dodge this skill not because i can remove condis then, but i dodge then next one.

i think some extra animations for fear and a bit dmg reduce would help.

sry for bad engl.

Team Erotic Solitude Legends [ESL]
Spirit Ranger Yilvina Darnus
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(edited by Oidmetala.8426)

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Posted by: jcbroe.4329

jcbroe.4329

Really the biggest issue comes up when you have Terror and Dhuumfire combined. There wasn’t too much of an issue before Dhuumfire was added to the game, but when it was, people immediately called it broken, specifically in Terror builds.

Dhuumfire burns for 5 seconds with Nightmare runes (a fairly common selection) and is able to do that every 10s. Coupled that with the ability to inflict every damaging condition in the game rapidly and on a fairly short cooldown, and that’s when it gets a bit too much.

Really, because I can’t comment on whether the patch reduced Terrors damage enough (Terror by the way being strong with the amount of damage it has the potential to do in a short amount of time when Death Shroud fear is available at the same time as staff 5), my initial reaction is to reduce the burning duration on dhuumfire to about 2s (that’s about an extra free 1k+ damage every 10s), and/or to add an ICD to Terror so that it can’t just be used to overkill people with fear and every other condition in the game.

Of course, adding an ICD to Terror would also imply that hidden ICDs are no longer hidden (something that desperately needs changing with the amount of important ICDs there are in the game currently), so that a person would be able to time their fears better and not have to guestimate/stopwatch themselves, which would add an interesting interactive element to it, because Necros would be able to choose when to use fear better with this setup, and not just spam/throw it out their whenever the hope it will work (which inevitably will happen).

But yeah, 2s Dhuumfire burn, and/or ICD to Terror.

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Posted by: Sol.4310

Sol.4310

I’ve played necro here and there since release but I’ve played necro at least 6 hours both today and yesterday and all in scrims with other good teams, so that is my experience on necro, just thought you guys should know that, moving on!

I’d like more experienced necromancers to comment on this but I feel like the necromancer playstyle is now in a pretty good spot. I can tank a really long time with deathshroud and it feels like that’s what a necromancer should be able to do since he can’t disengage. Instead of disengaging you press your deathshroud button and people go “oh, well lets attack something else.” Which if you have played with or against the right necromancer specs is exactly what goes through your brain when the necromancer pops a 100% deathshroud, heck even 50% deathshrouds.

For how tanky I am I do way too much dps though and also have insanely good support condis through tons of chill/poison/weakness etc. and this is where I want the community to come up with some ideas on how to get necromancer right.

For me the big thing that needs to happen is a damage reduction somehow, and a quite heavy one if you ask me. All the ideas I’ve seen and or have come up with I have seen some problems in so I won’t speak about what I think should happen because I’m not sure. I’ll leave it up to the community. So come on guys come up with something to reduce necromancer dps that fits well with where arena net is taking the necromancer.

Or if you disagree and necromancers need something else changed just say it, this is how I feel though.

TLDR; necromancers playstyle is cool with tankyness instead of disengaging but does too much damage on top of all their support and cc… and tankyness, come up with a way to reduce their damage in this thread. Or other tweaks you would like. Maybe necromancers are a little too tanky? They pretty much have everything but disengage right now so I’m open to any ideas.

Edit: As other damage in this game is nerfed though(as it should be), necromancer deathshroud will surely need to be decreased, but right now there is insane amounts of damage flying around so it strangely feels almost right, I just deal way too much damage on top of it.

You could take protection and more condition remove. No that’s silly. I know allot will hate on me for saying it, but you will find players will pack heaps of toughness over vita forgetting protection will easy make up for that loss of toughness, and having high vita pool with avg amount of condition remove will keep you in the fight.

Saizo Sol – Ranger
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(edited by Sol.4310)

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Posted by: Blood Red Arachnid.2493

Blood Red Arachnid.2493

Really the biggest issue comes up when you have Terror and Dhuumfire combined. There wasn’t too much of an issue before Dhuumfire was added to the game, but when it was, people immediately called it broken, specifically in Terror builds.

I find the buff to fear to be the reason for the highest increase in damage from condition necros. The burn from Dhuumfire is nice, but it suffers from several problems:

#1: Requires some fairly specific builds to use effectively.
#2: It’s internal cooldown drastically decreases the effectiveness of the proc against multiple targets.
#3: it has a habit of procing on things like ranger spirits, mesmer clones, summoned thieves, summoned elementals, etc.
#4: The damage is quickly overwritten by the ambient attacks done by Guardians, Elementalists, and Engineers. While engineers usually run a condition build, Guards and Eles never do, so your burning can easily be overridden by theirs.
#5: Since burning doesn’t stack in intensity, it becomes redundant and ineffective the moment a condi ranger or engineer is around.

People tend to blame Dhuumfire for the power that necros received, but this is forgetting that the Necromancer received over a dozen meaningful buffs to their condition builds alone in the balance patch. Necromancers were all around better, period. Dhuumfire is just the most noticeable one because it was a hotly debated topic before the buffs were given. There were 2 other things than Dhuumfire that really impacted condition necros:

A)AoE long duration Torment and Immobilize. All builds received this, effectively making it a move that does 4.5 × 10 second bleeds that bypass the condition cap, as well as an immobilize.
B)Necromancer Fear was buffed massively. First, Doom was made 50% more effective. Second, Spectral Wall was turned into an area denial, sustaining fear + protection wall that could combo fear multiple times an hit countless opponents.

B is the biggest one. This means that necromancers received more fear, better fear, 3x the AoE fear, and fear became much more tactical. Originally a necro would fear you for maybe once for a second, maybe two if they used reaper’s mark, but that was it. Terror was a no-show in a lot of builds because over the course of combat it only ticked once or twice, and it was almost wholly a defensive mechanic. Now players have learned to stack fear immensely, creating a devastating lockdown + damage combo the game had never seen before. For example, with the new fear it is very possible to

1) Doom (3 seconds)
2)Spectral wall (2 seconds)
3) Reaper’s Mark (2 seconds)
4)Spectral Wall again (2 seconds); this is done by running past the player, forcing them to run back in to spectral wall again. That, or use Spectral Grasp like I do and cheese it.

Layering up to 9 seconds of fear: More than twice what was possible with a 100% fear duration build pre-patch. This isn’t helped by the fact that terror ticks for about 50% more damage than burning does, and it isn’t redundant or neutralized. It even works well in groups, since both Reaper’s Mark and Spectral Wall cause fear in an AoE, hitting whole teams for up to 4 seconds of fear in total while some poor soul was capped at 9, and the necromancer was under protection the whole time.

BTW: Necros don’t have access to every damaging condition. They lack confusion, with the only way of obtaining it being to transfer it over, or if they use the bone minion to combo field off of spectral wall. Of course, if you use spectral wall as an ethereal field to inflict confusion, then you aren’t doing it right.

I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.

(edited by Blood Red Arachnid.2493)

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Posted by: Romek.4201

Romek.4201

necro have way too much aoe – nearly everything on necro is aoe and thats the biggest problem

just think how cool necro would be when staff abilitys would be single target and the ONLY real aoe ability would be epidemie

would raise the skillcap alot

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Posted by: prozon.3561

prozon.3561

This class needs to be banned for your PAX tournament!!! My Team wont participate, this Game actually is unplayable, plz wake up devs…. you can’t be serious at the moment…

Just broken if you see no names running dbl Necro and you cant do anything about this… Brainless facerolling on the point, you need no timing, no teamplay, just spam your AOE kitten out.

Fear has to be nerfed to 1 time available for OPmancer, remove burning, lower this awesome weakness spam… If you want any enjoyable games at your Pax TN you have to edit the rules by ban the Necro class fully from this, you will not be able to fix this class in time.


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Posted by: Empathetic Fighter.2065

Empathetic Fighter.2065

The main part of necro being over the top dmg-wise are the marks. You can compare that to Grenades from the HGH. But without any counter to it (projectile-reflection), nor does the necro need skill to place them. They are instant (no travelling of procteile whatsoever), they are unblockable, when not triggered they remain on ground and the area of these marks are horendous. Marks are one of the main reasons why necro doesn’t require any skill at all. While grenades required you to predict the movement (also the area was slightly smaller) they had also an obvious animation, where ppl could actually dodge them. This part of depth is lost with marks in place. You can predict them but nothing else. Animation of it is not obvious and look all the same.

Read It Backwards [BooN]

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Posted by: Empathetic Fighter.2065

Empathetic Fighter.2065

This class needs to be banned for your PAX tournament!!! My Team wont participate, this Game actually is unplayable, plz wake up devs…. you can’t be serious at the moment…

Just broken if you see no names running dbl Necro and you cant do anything about this… Brainless facerolling on the point, you need no timing, no teamplay, just spam your AOE kitten out.

Fear has to be nerfed to 1 time available for OPmancer, remove burning, lower this awesome weakness spam… If you want any enjoyable games at your Pax TN you have to edit the rules by ban the Necro class fully from this, you will not be able to fix this class in time.

I think they allrdy know by now that they completely ruined PAX by messing up the balance. Beside your team, many others stopped playing tPvP till the spamancer-meta is dissapearing.

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Posted by: KarlaGrey.5903

KarlaGrey.5903

B)Necromancer Fear was buffed massively. First, Doom was made 50% more effective. Second, Spectral Wall was turned into an area denial, sustaining fear + protection wall that could combo fear multiple times an hit countless opponents.

‘hit countless opponents running into it
It takes quite some effort to be able to use it properly vs anyone half decent (read: whoever positions themselves as to allow themselves be feared into the wall).
But by your logic, the guardian wall and bubble are equally broken because they too can hit countless oponents, and deny whole areas/passages.

B is the biggest one. This means that necromancers received more fear, better fear, 3x the AoE fear, and fear became much more tactical.

Tactical = good.

1) Doom (3 seconds)
2)Spectral wall (2 seconds)
3) Reaper’s Mark (2 seconds)
4)Spectral Wall again (2 seconds); this is done by running past the player, forcing them to run back in to spectral wall again. That, or use Spectral Grasp like I do and cheese it.

Layering up to 9 seconds of fear: More than twice what was possible with a 100% fear duration build pre-patch. This isn’t helped by the fact that terror ticks for about 50% more damage than burning does, and it isn’t redundant or neutralized. It even works well in groups, since both Reaper’s Mark and Spectral Wall cause fear in an AoE, hitting whole teams for up to 4 seconds of fear in total while some poor soul was capped at 9, and the necromancer was under protection the whole time.

1) Are we talking hotjoin/wvw or tpvp here?
2) You can only do such fear chains agaisnt opponents that let you have your way with them.

the game has way too much aoe – nearly everything in the game is aoe and thats the biggest problem

Fixed that for you.

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(edited by KarlaGrey.5903)

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Posted by: Azraeel.1238

Azraeel.1238

Let me get this right, someone who played the class for 6 hours is here to give suggestions as how to change the class?

This is kittened up more than I thought.

1- Necromancers aren’t tankier than a Guardian.
2- Your damage/DS will be negated if you turn into a ping pong ball, which you will against good players.
3- Necromancers don’t do more damage than other classes. Power builds don’t do good condition damage, and condition builds don’t have good power damage, and hybrid doesn’t have good survivability. We can’t have everything.
4- Necromancers don’t have mobility, take away damage and what’s left of survivability and what are we left with? A dead necromancer.

Go suggest nerfs to whatever other main class you play.

80 Necromancer (Main) | 80 Thief | 80 Guardian | 80 Warrior
Engineer and Elementalist in progress…

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Posted by: Blood Red Arachnid.2493

Blood Red Arachnid.2493

1)Either.
2)That circles back toward the whole “Conditionmancers aren’t in control of their own offense and defense” thing I talked about in my first post.

I mentioned it before: stability and stun breaks can easily interrupt the fear chain combo. However, should that player not have those available to them for some reason (warhorn, Flesh Golem, Reaper’s Protection, another teammate did something, whatever), 9 second of stun while being hit for 9,900 damage from terror alone is quite kitten ing. You throw other conditions on top of it (say, 6 stacks of bleeding and poison from general combat), and the stun chain means certain death to classes with low HP.

The chain itself can be hard to interrupt, though. The best you can hope for is to use the stun break at Doom, before you hit the spectral wall, and then dodge through reaper’s mark. If you use it after spectral wall, they’ll hit you with spectral grasp OR reaper’s mark, so you’ll end up taking another 2 seconds on top of what you have, unless you have full endurance and manage to dodge both. This can be hard, though, since most Necromancers will only layer their stuns as a finishing move, after the battle has gone on for a bit.

I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.

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Posted by: djooceboxblast.9876

djooceboxblast.9876

The latest patch has made me such a happy necromancer. It has made the necromancer more of an attrition based profession which has been the ultimate goal all along. The new default mark radius is more than perfect (GJ Anet – Finally) and has opened up a variety of new options for many builds. The bugfix on ds damage mitigation has made a huge difference in survivability and i have a really hard time understanding players who whine about the changes. I mean come on, does it hurt you to actively think and do something according to your enemy to be effective?

Currently running a 0/30/10/0/30 build effectively killing good elemantalists, rangers, guardians etc. shows that the necromancers damage was fine before dhuumfire was born and that the trait was not needed.

Now on to the OP’s topic about necromancers doing too much damage and pressure with conditions. One of the main strengths of the Necromancer is applying conditions with long durations which makes it possible to stack an insane amount of bleeds (15-20 lasting for well above 10 seconds) topped with poison, chill, weakness and now burning and torment too, in basically a 5-7 ability combo. What makes the ability to do this too strong is the burning and to some degree torment! Not only do they cover the bleeds, they also do an insane amount of damage over time (30 points in spite – 4 nightmare – 2 lyssa gives you a 60% uptime on dhuumfire). Personally i think that what the necromancer needs is a way to cover the bleeds without gaining too much extra pressure/damage.

Suggestions that could solve the main topic of this thread (i really do think that dhuumfire needs to go if Anet is not willing to remove the burning or change it to something else):

1. The dhuumfire trait could be changed to proc torment instead of burning and we would be somewhere close to balance.

2. Give necromancers a new non-damaging condition that we can actively use to cover our bleed stacks with.

3. Keep burning but reduce bleed duration across the board for necromancer abilities. (This would make builds without burning suffer a lot and is not the best solution if you want build variety.)

4. Change blood curse or rending curse on scepter aa to torment instead of bleeding adding an extra condition to cover for bleeds or other conditions.

5. Add travel-time to scepter aa making it slower to apply bleeds. (Currently the best aa in gw2 for condition pressure – Try going 30 spite, 30 curses with lingering curses, hemophilia, condition/bleed duration runes and earth + agony sigils. You will be able to stack and maintain 15 stacks of bleed, poison and burning just by auto attacking. A test has shown that this setup has the pressure to kill a heavy golem almost as fast as a zerker warrior 100b)

(edited by djooceboxblast.9876)

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Posted by: djooceboxblast.9876

djooceboxblast.9876

The main part of necro being over the top dmg-wise are the marks. You can compare that to Grenades from the HGH. But without any counter to it (projectile-reflection), nor does the necro need skill to place them. They are instant (no travelling of procteile whatsoever), they are unblockable, when not triggered they remain on ground and the area of these marks are horendous. Marks are one of the main reasons why necro doesn’t require any skill at all. While grenades required you to predict the movement (also the area was slightly smaller) they had also an obvious animation, where ppl could actually dodge them. This part of depth is lost with marks in place. You can predict them but nothing else. Animation of it is not obvious and look all the same.

You clearly have little to no idea of what makes the necromancer over the top. Marks are not the problem and do not do the same amount of damage as grenades and with the newest patch most necro’s wont have unblockable marks. The marks have an extremely high cd and can not really be compared to grenades. If you make marks have a travel time like grenades then missing a mark will be way too risky. An engineers grenades have a very short cd and a miss wont be as crushing as if a necromancer misses putrid or reapers mark. And if you think the marks are so easy to hit, why do i see so many necromancers who are considered good miss mark by mark on their streams (even with greater marks)? With this said, i do agree with you that the marks need some kinda differentiation to their casting animations or visuals, so people can actually see and know what they are dodging.

Oh and btw, you can dodge through the marks (with horrendous radius) laying on the ground.

(edited by djooceboxblast.9876)

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Posted by: Mammoth.1975

Mammoth.1975

So what you’re saying is necros trade the ability to disengage for increased survivability, but they should trade the ability to disengage and the ability to deal good damage instead? Sort of like a guardian, only with less survivability?

Sit a hammer on him, or bring a water ele. Or both. They’re flexible options anyway, it’s not like they’re only good for necro hunting.

The amount of condition removal a water ele runs neuters necro damage hard in group fights, whatever you find in 1v1. 3 every 10 seconds means all you have to use actual cleanses for is: torment (40/32s), chill (20s), weakness (25s). Add chill (15/13s) and weakness (15s) if he wants to get in melee range. Pretty sure your team can handle 3 conditions every 20-30 seconds, or annihilate a necro standing on point.

A hammer warrior in zerker stance is extremely difficult to peel and will have any necro screaming for SYG, or more likely, dead. Depending on their comp you may not even need berserker stance, balanced or dolyak can do an even better job when their corrupter is going to spend the whole game sitting on his kitten . At least now SA/DS makes it possible for a necro to survive the berserk hammer assist train occasionally.

Electric discharge, let it go.

If you’re not playing to win, don’t complain when you lose.

(edited by Mammoth.1975)

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Posted by: Empathetic Fighter.2065

Empathetic Fighter.2065

The main part of necro being over the top dmg-wise are the marks. You can compare that to Grenades from the HGH. But without any counter to it (projectile-reflection), nor does the necro need skill to place them. They are instant (no travelling of procteile whatsoever), they are unblockable, when not triggered they remain on ground and the area of these marks are horendous. Marks are one of the main reasons why necro doesn’t require any skill at all. While grenades required you to predict the movement (also the area was slightly smaller) they had also an obvious animation, where ppl could actually dodge them. This part of depth is lost with marks in place. You can predict them but nothing else. Animation of it is not obvious and look all the same.

You clearly have little to no idea of what makes the necromancer over the top. Marks are not the problem and do not do the same amount of damage as grenades and with the newest patch most necro’s wont have unblockable marks. The marks have an extremely high cd and can not really be compared to grenades. If you make marks have a travel time like grenades then missing a mark will be way too risky. An engineers grenades have a very short cd and a miss wont be as crushing as if a necromancer misses putrid or reapers mark. And if you think the marks are so easy to hit, why do i see so many necromancers who are considered good miss mark by mark on their streams (even with greater marks)? With this said, i do agree with you that the marks need some kinda differentiation to their casting animations or visuals, so people can actually see and know what they are dodging.

Marks provde non-skilled play, as every other AoE that has no dedicated animation and is instantly in place after the cast. This denies a lot of depth to the gameplay and the class itself. Furthermore it doesn’t require any skill to be effective.
DPS-wise you’re right, the problem relies more in traits.

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Posted by: leman.7682

leman.7682

I haven’t read the whole topic so I don’t know if anyone already suggested what I’m going to write.

I realise people will be angry with me for this idea, but here it is – just make Terror a GM trait to limit the number of builds you can run it with. Switch it with the scepter or weakness trait so that you forgo defense to go full <30/30/w.e /w.e/w.e> offense (THIS OR kill Dhuumfire without changing the Terror)

  • This way, you can’t have Soul Marks and Last Gasp in one build with Dhuumfire and Terror.
  • You also can’t have unblockable marks in the same build so that you have to make choices.
  • Corruption, warhorn and the the swapped trait all become viable again. They help the necro offensively as well, but in a different manner.

Some things during the Terror trait swap would have to be figured out, like if the traits are good enough for their tiers after the swap, but that’s the easy part I guess.

The aim of the change is to bring back the old-school 0/30/w.e/w.e/w.e condi necro, maintain the ultimate damage hybrid as a possible and a high risk/high reward build, force build diversity and drive away the fotm players from the necro

Coming from an exclusively-and-constantly-since-beta necro.

Please don’t hate me too much, just trying to help.

  • Yet-another-edit:

To potential people concerned about the change having a negative impact on PvE/WvE – it doesn’t.

Leman

(edited by leman.7682)

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Posted by: djooceboxblast.9876

djooceboxblast.9876

The main part of necro being over the top dmg-wise are the marks. You can compare that to Grenades from the HGH. But without any counter to it (projectile-reflection), nor does the necro need skill to place them. They are instant (no travelling of procteile whatsoever), they are unblockable, when not triggered they remain on ground and the area of these marks are horendous. Marks are one of the main reasons why necro doesn’t require any skill at all. While grenades required you to predict the movement (also the area was slightly smaller) they had also an obvious animation, where ppl could actually dodge them. This part of depth is lost with marks in place. You can predict them but nothing else. Animation of it is not obvious and look all the same.

You clearly have little to no idea of what makes the necromancer over the top. Marks are not the problem and do not do the same amount of damage as grenades and with the newest patch most necro’s wont have unblockable marks. The marks have an extremely high cd and can not really be compared to grenades. If you make marks have a travel time like grenades then missing a mark will be way too risky. An engineers grenades have a very short cd and a miss wont be as crushing as if a necromancer misses putrid or reapers mark. And if you think the marks are so easy to hit, why do i see so many necromancers who are considered good miss mark by mark on their streams (even with greater marks)? With this said, i do agree with you that the marks need some kinda differentiation to their casting animations or visuals, so people can actually see and know what they are dodging.

Marks provde non-skilled play, as every other AoE that has no dedicated animation and is instantly in place after the cast. This denies a lot of depth to the gameplay and the class itself. Furthermore it doesn’t require any skill to be effective.
DPS-wise you’re right, the problem relies more in traits.

I would not mind having a tiny bit of travel time on marks but it should not be as long as the grenades. If so, the marks should have a reduction on their cd’s. The solution could be to make something similar to dark bindings beams with a color representing the individual mark. Just throwing ideas out there since we know that the developers are reading this. Im all about making necromancers balanced because i actually agree with them being a tiny bit over the top. I just dont like people mentioning things (marks etc.) that are not a contribution to the current “op” state of the necromancer.

(edited by djooceboxblast.9876)

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Posted by: Nikkle.4013

Nikkle.4013

I haven’t read the whole topic so I don’t know if anyone already suggested what I’m going to write.

I realise people will be angry with me for this idea, but here it is – just make Terror a GM trait to limit the number of builds you can run it with. Switch it with the scepter or weakness trait so that you forgo defense to go full offense (i.e. 30/30/ whatever / whatever/ whatever).

  • This way, you can’t have Soul Marks and Last Gasp in one build with Dhuumfire and Terror.
  • You also can’t have unblockable marks in the same build so that you have to make choices.

Some things during the Terror trait swap would have to be figured out, like if the traits are good enough for their tiers after the swap, but that’s the easy part I guess.

Coming from an exclusively-and-constantly-since-beta necro.

Please don’t hate me too much, just trying to help.

^ What I see as the most reasonable change. Making marks viable before the cast finishes is also something I would like to see, or at least something more visible on the necro.

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Posted by: KarlaGrey.5903

KarlaGrey.5903

I haven’t read the whole topic so I don’t know if anyone already suggested what I’m going to write.

I realise people will be angry with me for this idea, but here it is – just make Terror a GM trait to limit the number of builds you can run it with. Switch it with the scepter or weakness trait so that you forgo defense to go full offense (i.e. 30/30/ whatever / whatever/ whatever).

  • This way, you can’t have Soul Marks and Last Gasp in one build with Dhuumfire and Terror.
  • You also can’t have unblockable marks in the same build so that you have to make choices.
  • Corruption, warhorn and the the swapped trait all become viable again. They help the necro offensively as well, but in a different manner.

Some things during the Terror trait swap would have to be figured out, like if the traits are good enough for their tiers after the swap, but that’s the easy part I guess.

The aim of the change is to bring back the old-school 0/30/w.e/w.e/w.e condi necro, maintain the ultimate damage hybrid as a possible and a high risk/high reward build, force build diversity and drive away the fotm players from the necro

Coming from an exclusively-and-constantly-since-beta necro.

Please don’t hate me too much, just trying to help.

  • Yet-another-edit:

To potential people concerned about the change having a negative impact on PvE/WvE – it doesn’t.

B-But….your suggestion to make terror GM would kill my 0 20 20 0 30 terror build (sacced lingering curses, because blockable marks are, with all due respect, nothing short of terrible, especially given their relatively high recharge). I like to consider my build well-rounded (apart from lack of raw damage), because I just can’t imagine running some glass necro without lf generation on marks and lower recharge on DS skills, which I I believe are two of the most important necro traits, utility-wise :‘(. It was never OP before dhuumfire, so why pick on setups that aren’t even connected with dhuumfire to start with.
Just rework dhuumfire and let other things alone.

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(edited by KarlaGrey.5903)

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Posted by: Kiriakulos.1690

Kiriakulos.1690

necro have way too much aoe – nearly everything on necro is aoe and thats the biggest problem

just think how cool necro would be when staff abilitys would be single target and the ONLY real aoe ability would be epidemie

would raise the skillcap alot

Quick note about that, we have no cleave melee weapon.
This might not be a big thing in sPvP, but think about what it does in PvE, that’s part of the reason we have so much AoE.

Attrition – A pretty name for taking longer than anyone else to kill something.

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Posted by: leman.7682

leman.7682

B-But….your suggestion to make terror GM would kill my 0 20 20 0 30 terror build (sacced lingering curses, because blockable marks are, with all due respect, nothing short of terrible). I like to consider my build well-rounded (apart from lack of raw damage), because I just can’t imagine running some glass necro without lf generation on marks and lower recharge on DS skills, which I consider one of the most important necro traits, utility-wise :‘(. It was never OP before dhuumfire, so why setups that aren’t even connected with dhuumfire to start with.
Just rework dhuumfire and let other things alone.

Yeah… it’s a hard call when I look at it like that. I guess Dhuumfire rework would work as well

Leman

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Posted by: djooceboxblast.9876

djooceboxblast.9876

I haven’t read the whole topic so I don’t know if anyone already suggested what I’m going to write.

I realise people will be angry with me for this idea, but here it is – just make Terror a GM trait to limit the number of builds you can run it with. Switch it with the scepter or weakness trait so that you forgo defense to go full offense (i.e. 30/30/ whatever / whatever/ whatever).

  • This way, you can’t have Soul Marks and Last Gasp in one build with Dhuumfire and Terror.
  • You also can’t have unblockable marks in the same build so that you have to make choices.
  • Corruption, warhorn and the the swapped trait all become viable again. They help the necro offensively as well, but in a different manner.

Some things during the Terror trait swap would have to be figured out, like if the traits are good enough for their tiers after the swap, but that’s the easy part I guess.

The aim of the change is to bring back the old-school 0/30/w.e/w.e/w.e condi necro, maintain the ultimate damage hybrid as a possible and a high risk/high reward build, force build diversity and drive away the fotm players from the necro

Coming from an exclusively-and-constantly-since-beta necro.

Please don’t hate me too much, just trying to help.

  • Yet-another-edit:

To potential people concerned about the change having a negative impact on PvE/WvE – it doesn’t.

B-But….your suggestion to make terror GM would kill my 0 20 20 0 30 terror build (sacced lingering curses, because blockable marks are, with all due respect, nothing short of terrible, especially given their relatively high recharge). I like to consider my build well-rounded (apart from lack of raw damage), because I just can’t imagine running some glass necro without lf generation on marks and lower recharge on DS skills, which I consider one of the most important necro traits, utility-wise :‘(. It was never OP before dhuumfire, so why setups that aren’t even connected with dhuumfire to start with.
Just rework dhuumfire and let other things alone.

+1

People have started mentioning things that were never mentioned before dhuumfire was introduced. Marks were never a problem before and have not been changed so why are they are problem now? Dhuumfire is a problem because it gives necromancers another condition for opponents to cleanse that also does a good amount of damage. This is where the main problem lies and i am afraid that most people do not see it and therefore point out things that are not the main issue forcing the necromancer in a direction where it should not be headed.

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Posted by: Hag.4605

Hag.4605

For most of the time ppl write about necromancer fear and dhuumfire, but i think another problem may be in condi transfer form staff-4 and dagger-4 skills.
These skills have a heavy condi clens for necro and big damage advantage. Condi clens is OK, but extra dmg from transfered condis + skill dmg makes these weapon skills close to OP. In some tight 4vs4 fights walking into enemy necro staff-4 can be a big boomb of condi.

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Posted by: Batlav.6318

Batlav.6318

Just ban necros from Spvp i don’t want the class to be screwed up because of it

swap burn with 2-3 stacks of torment we don’t need burn as necros anyway
or just remove it becasuse before it we were just fine.

SFR

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Posted by: Uberkafros.5431

Uberkafros.5431

He meant that instead of stacking toughness you can change that with a high uptime of protection and go for vitality instead.

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Posted by: Keyon.3841

Keyon.3841

Well, the idea behind a necromancer is to get in the fight and either die or kill.

That`s why necros got high damage and as of the last patch good sustain. They nerfed the fear and I think they should adjust the overall damage of burning in the game which is too high in my opinion.

Besides that I think it`s pretty balanced.

Position is really important when it comes to necros because if we are not careful we can still be bursted down pretty quick.

When plague is on CD and we just died and have no Life Force we are very killable.
For me it makes sense that the more you fight a necro the harder it will be.
Hard CC and high burst are our weaknesses. Most necros have 1 break stun on their utility slots.

What you suggest is to nerf all condis in this game which is impossible.

You are correct that no life force = very easy to kill necro, but with the proper build you will be swimming in life force very fast. The build being 30/20/0/0/20 with spectral armor as a utility. Necros are by no means squishy and beyond that do glass cannon level damage on top of cc and control conditions.

And I actually didn’t suggest anything. So these imaginary suggestions you say I mentioned are definitely impossible considering they are imaginary.

You just said the damage is too high. That basicly means nerf the damage. If their going to nerf the damage they`ll need to nerf not just necro but all the condis of every class.

The trait has a CD and I don`t think that using a utility slot for spectral armor is really good. I think there are other utilities that do the job better or are better for your team.

If you think it`s op stop using it.

Let me give you an exemple:

Necros have condis that can be cleansed.
A backstab thief can hit up to 8-10 k.
A s/d thief have evades and great edurance regen and besides that they steal boons and still have a good damage output..
100b Warrior can hit up to 12 k in a couple of seconds.

Why do you cry so much about condis when that are other classes that make the same damage but way faster.

I suggest people to get more condi removal.

A diffrent aproach to dhuumfire or just nerfing the burning is a great too balance the “way too high damage” of necro.

(edited by Keyon.3841)

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Posted by: Lordrosicky.5813

Lordrosicky.5813

Make both the engineer and necro burning traits give 2 seconds (down from 4 seconds) of burning every 10 seconds and they will be balanced.

Character: Henry rank million/Duke Henry
Necromancer/Casual Warrior
[Team] Best WvW guild of all time. EASILY.

Constructive necromancer thoughts.

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Posted by: Lordrosicky.5813

Lordrosicky.5813

Well, the idea behind a necromancer is to get in the fight and either die or kill.

That`s why necros got high damage and as of the last patch good sustain. They nerfed the fear and I think they should adjust the overall damage of burning in the game which is too high in my opinion.

Besides that I think it`s pretty balanced.

Position is really important when it comes to necros because if we are not careful we can still be bursted down pretty quick.

When plague is on CD and we just died and have no Life Force we are very killable.
For me it makes sense that the more you fight a necro the harder it will be.
Hard CC and high burst are our weaknesses. Most necros have 1 break stun on their utility slots.

What you suggest is to nerf all condis in this game which is impossible.

You are correct that no life force = very easy to kill necro, but with the proper build you will be swimming in life force very fast. The build being 30/20/0/0/20 with spectral armor as a utility. Necros are by no means squishy and beyond that do glass cannon level damage on top of cc and control conditions.

And I actually didn’t suggest anything. So these imaginary suggestions you say I mentioned are definitely impossible considering they are imaginary.

The 30/20/0/0/20 build is obviously alot worse in team fights though surely. Its a beast 1v1 build though.

Character: Henry rank million/Duke Henry
Necromancer/Casual Warrior
[Team] Best WvW guild of all time. EASILY.

Constructive necromancer thoughts.

in PvP

Posted by: Krilce.7864

Krilce.7864

You just said the damage is too high. That basicly means nerf the damage. If their going to nerf the damage they`ll need to nerf not just necro but all the condis of every class.

The trait has a CD and I don`t think that using a utility slot for spectral armor is really good. I think there are other utilities that do the job better or are better for your team.

If you think it`s op stop using it.

Let me give you an exemple:

Necros have condis that can be cleansed.
A backstab thief can hit up to 8-10 k.
A s/d thief have evades and great edurance regen and besides that they steal boons and still have a good damage output..
100b Warrior can hit up to 12 k in a couple of seconds.

Why do you cry so much about condis when that are other classes that make the same damage but way faster.

I suggest people to get more condi removal.

A diffrent aproach to dhuumfire or just nerfing the burning is a great too balance the “way too high damage” of necro.

And guess what, all of the attacks you are very telegraphed and easily avoidable(yes, even backstab, dodge/block/aoe blind/… at ~2 secs of their stealth). You are also forgetting that all of those are melee attacks, which isn’t the case for a necro. Not only that, necro is also using AOE attacks that can hurt whole team, unlike backstab thief or 100b warrior, who can pretty much damage only 1 person at a time(100b is a cleave, but how many times did you manage to root at least two – three people and use 100b on all of them).

Let’s be honest here, necro damage hasn’t been nerfed all that much, and survivability actually got buffed(fixed really) A LOT. People calling this a DS nerf are the ones that are mostly playing PvE or WvWvW, because you can’t eat damage from bosses or jump off cliffs anymore, which I agree, is a nerf, but only in those game modes. In PvP however, there wasn’t much of a need to use DS like that, because :

a)There are certain positions on each map, hardly reachable for anyone without teleport, in which case you also had a team behind you to keep you safe.
b)Professions that can do a lot of damage in 1 hit are warrior and d/p thief basically. How many times have you seen those in tPvP since last month?

With doubled the amount of life force while in DS, protection and life force generation, there is no way a team can get you down fast enough, which means you won’t be killed as easily as s/d glass cannon ele, for example = even more time to pressure the opposing team.

Necro’s survivability is quite good currently, which is good, and should be like that. However, their damage is off the charts. That kind of damage wouldn’t be a problem if it was telegraphed, and necro had to be in melee range to do it. However, that isn’t the case, and by the time opposing team gets necro down, someone from their team would probably already be finished. Terror is alright, the amount of bleeds, weakness, and all kinds of condis necros can put in short time is not. There are just too many conditions necro can get, and all of them are considered strong(weakness, poison, chill, blind…). On top of the huge damage we all know necros can dish in short amount of time, they also got good CC in form of Fear, obviously, AND good survivability. Add to that that attacks aren’t telegraphed, are instant travel(not instant cast), are ranged, and AoE, and you have borderline broken profession.

Constructive necromancer thoughts.

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Posted by: Vuh.1328

Vuh.1328

Make both the engineer and necro burning traits give 2 seconds (down from 4 seconds) of burning every 10 seconds and they will be balanced.

I honestly don’t thin kyou can even compare engineer and necro damage, engis can’t stack bleed even half as effective as a necro.
I agree the traits need to be changed but you can’t really change them the same way for both classes

Take your time to learn proper keybinding, it’s worth the struggle

Constructive necromancer thoughts.

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Posted by: KarlaGrey.5903

KarlaGrey.5903

That is hardly an argument, given the fact bleed stacking isn’t exactly the main source of engi damage to start with.

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