Guild Wars 2

Oblivion.8307:

Could people please stop flaming me? I was asked to post the video for a friend, get off your high horses jesus christ. The fact I previously used my stunbreakers and berserkers stance prior in the fight means i’m just delaying my death essentially. Oh, and i’m running valks. – I’m running lyssa too.

So you do everything your friends tell you to do? In a constructive post i do not think that your videos show any evidence or proof of what this topic is about. I am sure that you have better videos of you playing necromancer which would seem more appropriate for discussion. If you do not like people flaming you, ask your friends to fulfil their wishes themselves instead or post videos that are relevant.

Poplolita.2638:

I don’t know what’s the best way to fix the necromancer for the better for the moment, I have yet to think about it. I’ll probably post later.

In the other hand, after reading those 7 pages (Yes, I’m serious.) please, please,
Stop incessantly posting the same terrible idea over and over again – you know who you are. Stop replying to noobs, and ignore them if necessary? Try to avoid engaging in arguments unless its absolutely necessary. (it’s pointless to try and convince jmatb for example) And most important of all, think about each post you make, and always ask yourself this; “is this post necessary.” And no more ad hominem attacks – u say pve in ya post, me no listening to you, you suck kitten -. Seriously cut that kitten out.
This is a thread about “constructive” necromancer thoughts. Mod should probably consider adding a blacklist for such a crucial thread that will irremediably have an huge impact on necromancer playstyle in TPvp as well as in PVE, and WvWvW in the futur.

I suppose the hardest part about this is that the backhanded and condescending arguments that are use to troll other players can have just as much influence over the outcome of the game as my own. The hardest part about troll logic is that people fall for it, all the time. There isn’t some magical perception barrier that will make it so the people who design and make the game are immune to the incongruencies, scaremongering, or propaganda that gets used in these threads. Let alone, it doesn’t mean that arenanet won’t make a change under the idea that it is popular and that imbalances are fine as long as niches exist.

I’d love to have that much confidence in humanity, but I’ve seen it happen time and again when blatant trolls end up in control of a forum, and any decisions that come from that forum.

This is directly for the devs:

If you really are going to hotfix smth about the necros for the tournament then, for heaven’s sake, only change it for sPvP. Necros struggle enough in PvE and WvW, especially in WvW since organized guilds run high condition cleansing and high condition duration reduction (melandru runes and lemongrass soup). If you decide to bring down DS to a weaker lvl overall just for the PAX tournament, then all the necros who do not attend on it (and we’re looking at probably 98% of the whole necromancer community) will suffer from any further changes.

all this crying about fear is stupid…. i cant count the amount of times stability has saved the opponents life , they then proceed to knock me about due to me having stupidly low acsess to stability then kill me while im acting like a pingpong ball for his team. if you are having issues with fear pop stability …congrats you are now immune . (thanks to corrupt boon nerf which i think was the right thing to do even though i dont like it)

dmg too strong? you all have clenses (for condi) and invul/block of some form …. DS is our vigor/block/invul/distortion. and it doesnt stop an infinate number of attacks during its duration.

honestly im sick of this, ive played GW since GW1 release and mained necro through both… and i cant believe how bad this community has become.

i know you can balance well anet.. just please listen to those in the know ( those like nemesis bawhb ect) they know the class and im sure the equivilent in other classes such as osicat (mesmer) would give constructive critisisim and not knee jerk “omg necros are not free kills now NERF plz!”

I agree with many others, Dhuumfire needs to go. It’s not a fitting trait for the necro, and burning is one condition too many when torment got added at the same time. Other suggestions:

-Epidemic needs to have a cooldown of 40 sec, it makes sense to me that it should match the cooldown of AOE condi removal utilities like Null Field. It shouldn’t be a skill to spam.

-Terror. This may be too radical of a suggestion, but I’d like to see this moved to grandmaster Spite in place of Dhuumfire. Have it scale with power instead of condi damage. It fits the theme of ‘spite’ more than Dhuumfire.

-Add a new grandmaster trait in Curses, one stack of torment is applied whenever the target is weakened by the necro, call it Malaise or Atrophy.

-Move Withering Precision down to master tier, and rework it apply 5 sec of weakness on primary target whenever a corruption is cast. Corruptions could do with a slight boost.

In terms of survival, I think it’s decent now, but for necro I really want some kind of deterrent to blowing them up, e.g. they get a ‘weakening aura’ for a few sec when entering DS, that applies 1 sec of weakness to attackers.

There are several great posts made so far, but the following few are an absolute MUST read for the devs, as well as everyone else, in case you haven’t done so yet.

…and this one.

…and one more.

and lastly…

I would like to request anyone still arguing against necromancers outside dhuumfire read the above series of posts first.
The guy poured his heart and soul into those highly informative and argumentative posts, and you’d do THE LEAST to read them, and +1 them. If you cannot muster that bit of attention to read through what is admittedly a wall of (extremely high quality) text, then I advise you refrain from posting your own ideas without at least providing back-up arguments of such or similar calibre (this goes especially for the troll idea of lowering necro range).
Moreover, the quoted posts above, without doubt, ought becoming the main subject on one of the (or preferably, several) future devs’ meetings.

Defektive.7283:

Oblivion.8307:

Allie Murdock.8152:

We’re kind of on a time crunch, so yeah

If we’re going to do any hotfixes before the Qualifiers this weekend, they need to be asap.

Here’s a couple of clips from my warrior today a friend asked me to post.

http://www.twitch.tv/symbollix/c/2634515

http://www.twitch.tv/symbollix/c/2633818

Your running a berzerkers amulet with banners and hammer against blind spam and condi spam.

Also, all your utilities were on cooldown. Literally set yourself up for failure.

Good analysis.

With regards to the topic at hand;

I do believe that Necros are still forces to be reckoned with even without giving them burning. Like I’ve said in many other “Nerf Necro” related threads, give them more ways to stack torment, remove burning and you get relatively the same Necro only with more build up to his damage and with a lot less condis for everyone to cleanse.

With that said, I can guarantee that people are still going to complain because if the Necro doesn’t have burning, someone else in the team will give it to him (whether it be from the Guardian’s Virtue of Courage or the Ranger’s Sun Spirit), so therefore, the Necros will forever be considered OP.
I do think though, that when a nerf occurs, people tend to drift away from the nerfed speccs so we might get a lot less Necros if there was a change to Dhuumfire but that remains to be seen.
——————————————————————

Now I’m going to also suggest something I’ve been suggesting for quite sometime now and that’s the fact that if Anet gets to the point where they feel that Necros need to be taken down a peg, they do not need to attack them directly. They could just make Weakness affect condi damage and buff the Regen boon so that it improves in effectiveness depending on how many conditions are on a target.

Now the changes to Regen will probably cause a lot more controversy than some people might realize. The thing is, if Regen was to get boosted by every single condition on a target, people who love to stack crappy conditions (blind, weaknes, vuln etc) to hide their not-so-crappy conditions, will end up nerfing their damage more than helping it due to the fact that Regen is boosted by every single condition. And that’s a good thing because I believe people will then try to stack as few crappy conditions as possible when a target has Regen, only trying to keep the damaging conditions so that they don’t lose dps by stacking more inane conditions. This will then, I believe, have the side-effect of classes having less conditions to cleanse whilst Regen is up, thus indirectly boosting condition removal.

In that scenario, speccs that can apply infinite regen would probably be frowned upon (Rangers and Banner Warriors mostly but pretty much every class can do it) but with a few counterplay options like Poison, and Boon stripping/boon conversion, things should be stable in group-fight scenarios. If they aren’t then the nerfhammer could always be dropped.

On top of everything being said by the constructive and informative posts, I’d like staff AA to be changed to similar to Mesmer one.
Give it faster travel time and 2-3 bounces, and it applies vulnerability or confusion.

Allie Murdock.8152:

Ok, here’s the deal. I’m hearing different things from everyone I talk to.

1. Necro DS is too much and should be brought down
2. Necro damage is too much and should be brought down
3. Necro survivability is bad

I’m going to take a shot at this list and try to describe why people say each one and if they are correct in saying these things based on my own experience.

1. Necro DS is too much;

Most of what I’ve been seeing and reading is that this complaint comes way more from people who have engaged Necros or have played as Necros in a 1v1 scenario. Fact is, if the fight went on long enough that the Necro built enough DS, then of course, his DS would be something you’d have to deal with. And that, I believe, is the problem; people haven’t learnt to deal with a Necro who has full Deathshroud.

2. Necro Damage is too much;

This one I agree with. The fact that a Necro can just spam auto-attack and beat you to death because he is stacking 3 conditions with just one button is absolutely hilarious. I can relate this to a time in GW1 when a Warrior with a Hammer could just activate Dwarven Battle Stance pre-nerf on someone and just walk away from the keyboard and he would interrupt every single skill the person tried to cast. And this is quite similar to what a Necro can do only with conditions replacing the interrupts.

3. Necro Survivability is bad;

Only certain speccs. And to be honest, that’s how it should be. If a 30/30/10 or 30/20/20 Necro believes that he should have some survivability outside of Deathshroud, then that person should probably change amulets.
I actually played a Deathshroud Necro spec with Rampager’s recently (and let’s remember that Rampager’s doesn’t provide any defence at all) and I was taking on two people and surviving for quite some time mostly due to my ability to regain DS really quickly. In fact, I was beating quite a few other Necros because I had more access to DS than they did.

So if they complain about surivability, it’s either the specc they play is squishy or they themselves do not know how to play a Necro.
One final example before I go, I was in a match the other day and there was this particular Necro, who was probably specced as the FOTM condi build but he was incredibly hard to pin down, why? He kept moving and running around the map. He was also using Spectral Walk so he had the ability to make people go one direction whilst he went the other. He was incredibly hard to kill just based on the fact that he was quite mobile not even because of Deathshroud. So yea, these people who complain about survivability, I do not quite believe them.

Valderro.6389:

I agree with many others, Dhuumfire needs to go. It’s not a fitting trait for the necro, and burning is one condition too many when torment got added at the same time. Other suggestions:

-Epidemic needs to have a cooldown of 40 sec, it makes sense to me that it should match the cooldown of AOE condi removal utilities like Null Field. It shouldn’t be a skill to spam.

-Terror. This may be too radical of a suggestion, but I’d like to see this moved to grandmaster Spite in place of Dhuumfire. Have it scale with power instead of condi damage. It fits the theme of ‘spite’ more than Dhuumfire.

-Add a new grandmaster trait in Curses, one stack of torment is applied whenever the target is weakened by the necro, call it Malaise or Atrophy.

-Move Withering Precision down to master tier, and rework it apply 5 sec of weakness on primary target whenever a corruption is cast. Corruptions could do with a slight boost.

In terms of survival, I think it’s decent now, but for necro I really want some kind of deterrent to blowing them up, e.g. they get a ‘weakening aura’ for a few sec when entering DS, that applies 1 sec of weakness to attackers.

Just wanted to touch on a few points. Epidemic change would continue to nerf the pve side which is already falling behind. You also cant compare it to con removal, it’s not the same. The only potential counter to AoE con removal is a stun or death. Stun is temporary, death is impractical. Epidemic fails completely if a target dies, dodges/negates, uses con removal, some else uses con remove on the target, and in general needs to have a worthwhile amt of conditions on a target before use. Even if it hits, it has a limited AoE range, can be dodged, countered with con removal / AoE con removal, etc

On hit affects are great…. if they hit and if the effect isnt removed. The cds for corruptions are pretty high with your suggested changes. Given this, who would take weakness on corruption over the cd reduction from master of corruption?

Dirame.8521:

2. Necro Damage is too much;
I can relate this to a time in GW1 when a Warrior with a Hammer could just activate Dwarven Battle Stance pre-nerf on someone and just walk away from the keyboard and he would interrupt every single skill the person tried to cast. And this is quite similar to what a Necro can do only with conditions replacing the interrupts.

They actually further buffed Dwarven Battle Stance* skill by lowering the cost, adding 40 armor for the duration of the stance, and not having it break on skill use.=p

*From GW Wiki:
Decreased Energy cost to 5; changed functionality to: “Elite Stance. For 5…10…11 seconds, if you are wielding a hammer, you attack 33% faster, you gain +40 armor, and your attack skills interrupt foes when they hit.”
(It’s actually good now, especially if you time it right, but yea.)

Yet you still don’t really see it in any kind of pvp, really. What does that tell you? (;

I don’t consider it warranted, however, to compare such a strong skill to auto condition spam though, unless the 2nd condition inflicted would be fear instead of poison (often I’d see my conditions removed while auto stacking bleeds, so by the time poison lands, bleeding is already gone).

Dirame.8521:

3. Necro Survivability is bad;
One final example before I go, I was in a match the other day and there was this particular Necro, who was probably specced as the FOTM condi build but he was incredibly hard to pin down, why? He kept moving and running around the map. He was also using Spectral Walk so he had the ability to make people go one direction whilst he went the other. He was incredibly hard to kill just based on the fact that he was quite mobile not even because of Deathshroud. So yea, these people who complain about survivability, I do not quite believe them.

Yea, I fought a similarly specced necro (swalk, sgrasp and signet of spite).
Needless to say, if I’d let them land their spectral grasp and successfully pull off the fear chains, I was pretty much done for (end result was roughly 50/50 with him having a few more wins in total).
But the other necro not only sacced their boon removal (thus being only half as effective against stability classes), they also had virtually no self cond removal outside CC, which left them extremely vulnerable to my own conditions, in the event their spike failed to finish off the target. I also found Signet of Spite to be really strong if timed properly (i.e. after a heal/staff condi transfer), so I suppose that dhuumfire isn’t the sole offender when it comes to condi overload.

Hey guys. I know this thread is supposed to only be about Necromancer, but Allie mentioned a possible hotfix before the tournament. Here are the patch notes that I would like to see implemented and believe would make the meta MUCH more healthy for the tournament. Keep in mind, these aren’t necessarily the only changes that I would like to see, just the important emergency ones before next weekend.

Necromancer

• Dhuumfire: Renamed to “Cruel Punishment”, which reads, “100% chance to cause 2 stacks of Torment for 5 seconds on critical hit. (Cooldown: 10 seconds)” Currently, the addition of Burning damage on top of the other conditions a Necromancer can pump out, plus the long duration fears backed by Terror damage from the meta 30/20/0/0/20 spec mean that targets have little ability to avoid being “condi spiked”. This new access to Burning on top of the new condition Torment means that it has become very easy for Necromancers to overload a team’s condi cleanses in a teamfight due to the amount of condition diversity they have access to, especially when backed up by a second Necromancer or a condi Engineer/Ranger.

• Terror: Moved to Grandmaster tier. “Withering Precision” has been moved to Master tier. Let’s face it: even after the latest patch, Terror is still the strongest trait in the Curses line, and deserves to be at Grandmaster tier. Furthermore, the moving of this trait into Grandmaster makes it impossible to have Dhuumfire, Terror, and Master of Terror in the same build, and gives the Necromancer some very important decisions to make when building for condis. As it stands, it’s just too easy to put all the best condition traits together in the same build and achieve excellent DPS and long CCs with great sustainability — a very deadly combination.

• Enfeebling Blood and Weakening Shroud: The weakness durations on this skill and trait are now 5 seconds, down from 10 seconds. Weakness has become a very strong condition as of the 6/25 patch, and has really cut down on the viability of most physical DPS builds. Weakness duration in general was reduced in that patch, but not enough on this skill and trait. 10 seconds of weakness AoE (before condition duration +%) is just way too long when considering its ease of application.

Engineer

• Elixir R: Increased the cooldown to 45 seconds. It is now an instant stun breaker. “Toss Elixir R” now revives 12% per pulse, down from 20%. Eliminating Elixir R as a stun breaker restricted Engineer builds to a severe degree, when all that was really needed was a reduction on its revive power so that (for instance) an Engineer can be finished in a 1v1 without having a very good chance to self-revive. Adjusting its revival power would keep its utility as a team res assist without making Engis as hard to finish in 1v1 and 2v2 situations.

Ranger

• Spirits: All spirit passive abilities now have an internal cooldown of 12 seconds, up from 10 seconds. It’s no secret that Spirit Rangers are on the rise, and it’s largely because of the high amounts of Protection and Burning procs caused while being able to hold their own in most 1v1 situations, making for an optimal home point defender. I don’t believe this build is vastly overpowered, and certain builds (ones with good AoE cleave) can do very well against it. However, the large number of procs generated in a team fight situation is just too high at the moment and could use a small adjustment downward in power level.

Thief

• Shadow Trap: The maximum duration has been decreased to 75 seconds, down from 120 seconds. Thieves still have good damage, but their current ubiquity in high level play mostly stems from their extremely high mobility. A well-played thief can feel like it’s everywhere at once, putting pressure on the enemy team’s home point while still being present elsewhere on the map, thanks to the recently-buffed Shadow Trap. While I can appreciate ArenaNet’s desire to make underused utilities more PvP-viable, this one was pushed a little too far. Reducing Shadow Trap’s duration would leave it still viable (similar to how the Mesmer Portal is still useful) while reducing the thief’s mobility to more reasonable levels.

• Infiltrator’s Strike: “Shadow Return” now cannot be used while feared or under a control effect. S/D Thieves are certainly strong, but the most difficult part of dealing with them is that when you do land a well-timed CC while they aren’t evading, they are almost always able to teleport away, wait for the CC to end, and then teleport back. By removing their ability to Shadow Return away while CCed, you are able to punish the Thief at the ends of their evades more easily and thus land some damage on them at opportune moments.

Your suggestion to move Terror to GM level kills off non-power specs too, such as my current 0 20 20 0 30 spec…so please stop picking on traits that not a single soul found problematic un?il the recent changes.

Moreover, shorther weakness duration from nec skills would then also call for slightly shorther recharges, or adjusted application (without half to 1 s delay on hit). Not to mention the necro isn’t the only class able to apply long-duration weakness.

Lastly, you ought making a thread of your own for those suggestions.

KarlaGrey.5903:

Your suggestion to move Terror to GM level kills off non-power specs too, such as my current 0 30 20 0 30 spec…so please stop picking on traits that not a single soul found problematikittenil the recent changes.

Moreover, shorther weakness duration from nec skills would then also call for slightly shorther recharges, or adjusted application (without half to 1 s delay on hit).

Lastly, you ought making a thread of your own for those suggestions.

Uh, 0/30/20/0/30 is 80 points, so I’ll assume you mean 0/20/20/0/30. I still maintain that Terror is the strongest trait in the Curses tree (easily), and is definitely worthy of being Grandmaster tier. They’ve been on a trend of relocating traits to appropriate tiers based on their strength (they did many such moves in the 6/25 patch), I’m just suggesting one more. If you want the strongest trait, you gotta pony up the points. I don’t see where the problem is with that — it should have been Grandmaster from the start.

Shorter duration on weakness is something that they addressed as part of the change to weakness in the 6/25 patch. I’m just saying that they need to adjust the skill and trait downward some more, because the amount of weakness application has really put a big hurt on power builds — just look at the current meta in top level PvP, very few power builds are viable now, and the main reason is the increased presence of Necromancers along with the new Weakness (the biggest problem of course not being that it’s 10s, but that it’s 10s AoE). I could agree on a small downward adjustment in the casting time of Enfeebling Blood — I always thought it was a bit too clunky.

Yea, it was a typo.
If you wish to makeTerror a GM trait, then move Greater Marks back to adept level.
Condi specs are really worthless without both (marks are essentially also tied to the LF generation trait in SR).
In return, the SR fear duration trait could be moved back to GM level.

KarlaGrey.5903:

Yea, it was a typo.
If you wish to makeTerror a GM trait, then move Greater Marks back to adept level.
Condi specs are really worthless without both.
In return, the SR fear duration trait can be made GM again.

I’m pretty sure condi specs could just go 0/30/20/0/20 or whatever.
Oh wait, that was my old condi necro spec XD

KarlaGrey.5903:

Yea, it was a typo.
If you wish to makeTerror a GM trait, then move Greater Marks back to adept level.
Condi specs are really worthless without both (marks are essentially also tied to the LF generation trait in SR).
In return, the SR fear duration trait could be moved back to GM level.

Not true; most Necros are now running 30/20/0/0/20. The bigger base size on the marks is considered large enough, and the unblockable part of the trait is considered to be not really worth the points.

True, but the fear duration trait isn’t nearly as strong as the other two GM traits in SR, so that doesn’t make as much sense as moving Terror up.

The issue is that condi specs aren’t as bursty as 30 30 x x x or 30 20 x x x specs are, which is why you invest more pts into traits that boost your survivability and utility skills (e.g. lf generation on marks, lower re on DS skills), as to fit the role of attrition.
I dare say the last patch actually hurt pure condi specs more than the fotm (either you gave up lower re on DS skills, which are a virtually a back-up set of necro utilities and hence really important to have in attrition builds, or cond duration from scepter, or bigger and unblockable marks), and I doubt that was the idea behind it.
Higher recharge on DS skills matter far less on dhuumfire builds, because they’ll be in trouble either way if their spike doesn’t kill after they burned all their utilities and DS skills.
I can imagine that scenario would push even more builds into power line, and/or push necros back to low-tier class.

Edit: Blockable marks are kitten vs almost anyone but another necro (for obvious reasons), given their high recharge and their utility nature.

KarlaGrey.5903:

The issue is that condi specs aren’t as bursty as 30 30 x x x or 30 20 x x x specs are, which is why you invest more pts into traits that boost your survivability and utility skills (e.g. lf generation on marks, lower re on DS skills), as to fit the role of attrition.
I dare say the last patch actually hurt pure condi specs more than the fotm (either you gave up lower re on DS skills, which are a back-up set of necro utilities, or cond duration from scepter, or bigger and unblockable marks), and I doubt that was the idea behind it.
Higher recharges on DS skills matter far less on dhuumfire builds, because they’ll be in trouble either way if their spike doesn’t kill after they burned all their utilities and DS skills.
I can imagine that scenario would push even more builds into power line, and/or push necros back to low-tier class.

To be clear, the current fotm build and the previous build are very similar (and both are “pure condi specs”, not sure why you don’t believe they are aside from the fact that they use Carrion amulet). The main difference is that you lose 100 Condition Damage and your marks are a little smaller, but you gain 2 Spectral Armors, and both of them now make you insanely tanky for 8 seconds each. Condi DPS Necros are now stronger than they were before this latest patch, because they finally gained some good sustain but they still have much of the crazy DPS that they picked up in the 6/25 patch.

I don’t think I’d call them insanely tanky (staged fights and opponents not paying attention to necro buffs don’t count), but yes, it’s true that the fotm remained pretty much intact, so it was only the pure condi builds that took a hit.
How ironic.

KarlaGrey.5903:

I don’t think I’d call them insanely tanky (staged fights and opponents not paying attention to necro buffs don’t count), but yes, it’s true that the fotm remained pretty much intact, so it was only the pure condi builds that took a hit.
How ironic.

They’re pretty tanky when 2-3 people training you are unable to get through your Death Shroud HP while Spectral Armor + DS is up and thus have to switch targets (similar effect to going stealth or popping Endure Pain). And then you have a backup armor after that one.

Also I assume by “pure condi builds” you mean old meta condi builds (0 in Spite)? Because new meta builds are still “pure condi” in that they take all condi traits. In fact, I’d call the builds you’re referring to as “part condi, part tanky”, because you’re not spending any points in the tree that gives condition duration, and you have no access to the 2nd-most damaging condition (burning).

KarlaGrey.5903:

Dirame.8521:

2. Necro Damage is too much;
I can relate this to a time in GW1 when a Warrior with a Hammer could just activate Dwarven Battle Stance pre-nerf on someone and just walk away from the keyboard and he would interrupt every single skill the person tried to cast. And this is quite similar to what a Necro can do only with conditions replacing the interrupts.

They actually further buffed Dwarven Battle Stance* skill by lowering the cost, adding 40 armor for the duration of the stance, and not having it break on skill use.=p

*From GW Wiki:
Decreased Energy cost to 5; changed functionality to: “Elite Stance. For 5…10…11 seconds, if you are wielding a hammer, you attack 33% faster, you gain +40 armor, and your attack skills interrupt foes when they hit.”
(It’s actually good now, especially if you time it right, but yea.)

Yet you still don’t really see it in any kind of pvp, really. What does that tell you? (;

I don’t consider it warranted, however, to compare such a strong skill to auto condition spam though, unless the 2nd condition inflicted would be fear instead of poison (often I’d see my conditions removed while auto stacking bleeds, so by the time poison lands, bleeding is already gone).

I wasn’t comparing the power, more the skillessness that they both entail.

Dirame.8521:

Dirame.8521:

3. Necro Survivability is bad;
One final example before I go, I was in a match the other day and there was this particular Necro, who was probably specced as the FOTM condi build but he was incredibly hard to pin down, why? He kept moving and running around the map. He was also using Spectral Walk so he had the ability to make people go one direction whilst he went the other. He was incredibly hard to kill just based on the fact that he was quite mobile not even because of Deathshroud. So yea, these people who complain about survivability, I do not quite believe them.

Yea, I fought a similarly specced necro (swalk, sgrasp and signet of spite).
Needless to say, if I’d let them land their spectral grasp and successfully pull off the fear chains, I was pretty much done for (end result was roughly 50/50 with him having a few more wins in total).
But the other necro not only sacced their boon removal (thus being only half as effective against stability classes), they also had virtually no self cond removal outside CC, which left them extremely vulnerable to my own conditions, in the event their spike failed to finish off the target. I also found Signet of Spite to be really strong if timed properly (i.e. after a heal/staff condi transfer), so I suppose that dhuumfire isn’t the sole offender when it comes to condi overload.

Signet of Spite doesn’t stack that many damaging conditions to be honest (just 2 stacks of bleed which is not worth much if you take it one it’s own), it’s just a really good way to cover all your other conditions and a good skill for building DS when you combine it with Feast of Corruption.

Necromancer is meant to be a “win by attrition class”. Most of the time I run a 30.20.×.×.20 spec I dont even have to switch out of staff to wipe 2 players of a point. They just dont have the resources to deal with the conditions, and the condition that is actually killing them the fastest, burning.

Sadly in PVE winning by attrition is a flawed concept (just like degen was in PVE for GW1). The PVE favors DPS and killing things fast. With enemies having insanely large health pools, it becomes not so much a matter of how much damage you can do over time, but how much damage you can do right now. And sadly, due to a lack of Cleave both the warrior and the guardian out-DPS the necromancer in every way. In WvW this is even worse, since zergs dominate WvW, so conditions are cleansed almost instantly. You don’t have time to wait for your target to die, because the rest brings DPS to the party.

Now if we had any survivability in PVE, this would be balanced. But this is not the case. Both the warrior and the guardian also out do the necromancer in survivability. It stuns me how anyone considered this balanced! Since the necromancer has no access to invulnerability or stamina regeneration, DS was our only means to survive damage spikes. Now that this has been nerfed, DS is no longer an effective defense against champions and bosses in PVE. That is because DS simply does not scale with the ginormous amounts of damage that PVE champions dish out. Some of them hit for 25k or 30k damage. Unless you still have dodges left, that is an instant kill. Necromancers now lack a panic button against these sorts of attacks that are ALL OVER the PVE content. It’s filled with these gimmicks.

And then there is our last means of defense “Fear”. While this mechanic is apparently considered OP in tPvP, in PVE it is quite the opposite story. Every single boss in the game is immune to fear, due to Defiant. This needs to be changed. Defiant needs to be removed, or changed. Immunity to CC skills can only be justified if the necro has other means to defend himself in PVE, and there are none.

When people are doing high end dungeons or high level Fractals, they want hard DPS and survivability. They do not want someone staying at ranged, trying to stay out of the way of the boss, and hoping that the conditions do enough damage. But currently this is almost our only option.

The devs need to check out this thread, and see how PVE players think about the necromancer:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Fractal-attitude/first

We’re Tpvp’ing in Khylo this week, and I had a perfect example of the not-so-tough DS issue vs classes that can block, go invulnerable, perma-evade etc.

Ever try to bunker/hold Clocktower while it’s been treb as a necro? As a guardian and mesmer, I can go invulnerable at the right time to even stomp while eating a treb shot. As a necro, you change into DS to “absorb”, and gasp, with the new change you lose all your DS and almost all your life in one shot + the knockback. Even if you try to stomp by shifting to Plague (good way to waste a 3 min CD elite btw) to prevent the knockback, you still eat it full blast and normally will go down.

I repeat, I can bunker this with other classes while being trebbed, so there is definitely something wrong with our substain tool when it’s all we have.

Also about our Spectral Armor, if nobody hits us we gain nada, 0. For a 60 sec cooldown, it’s easy to see it’s wasted potential. If it said “If you’re not hit, gain 20% at the end” or something like that, it would be better I think. Any burst class just have to wait 6(!!!) seconds and then can burst us with us winning 1 single % Lifeforce.

I also hate the feeling when I “burst” into a 0 taking-damage Warrior, but who’s fault is it really, I had to watch more closely their buffs/effects. At least some class can run away and come back when their burst cooldown are back on, we’re stuck there until the end, one way or another.

Panhauramix.2784:

We’re Tpvp’ing in Khylo this week, and I had a perfect example of the not-so-tough DS issue vs classes that can block, go invulnerable, perma-evade etc.

Ever try to bunker/hold Clocktower while it’s been treb as a necro? As a guardian and mesmer, I can go invulnerable at the right time to even stomp while eating a treb shot. As a necro, you change into DS to “absorb”, and gasp, with the new change you lose all your DS and almost all your life in one shot + the knockback. Even if you try to stomp by shifting to Plague (good way to waste a 3 min CD elite btw) to prevent the knockback, you still eat it full blast and normally will go down.

I repeat, I can bunker this with other classes while being trebbed, so there is definitely something wrong with our substain tool when it’s all we have.

Also about our Spectral Armor, if nobody hits us we gain nada, 0. For a 60 sec cooldown, it’s easy to see it’s wasted potential. If it said “If you’re not hit, gain 20% at the end” or something like that, it would be better I think. Any burst class just have to wait 6(!!!) seconds and then can burst us with us winning 1 single % Lifeforce.

I also hate the feeling when I “burst” into a 0 taking-damage Warrior, but who’s fault is it really, I had to watch more closely their buffs/effects. At least some class can run away and come back when their burst cooldown are back on, we’re stuck there until the end, one way or another.

step 1) hear the treb shout
step 2) count to 3
step 3) dodge

congratulations, you just took 0 damage from a treb shot without wasting an invulnerability cd or whatever

cymerdown.4103:

Necromancer

• Dhuumfire: Renamed to “Cruel Punishment”, which reads, “100% chance to cause 2 stacks of Torment for 5 seconds on critical hit. (Cooldown: 10 seconds)” Currently, the addition of Burning damage on top of the other conditions a Necromancer can pump out, plus the long duration fears backed by Terror damage from the meta 30/20/0/0/20 spec mean that targets have little ability to avoid being “condi spiked”. This new access to Burning on top of the new condition Torment means that it has become very easy for Necromancers to overload a team’s condi cleanses in a teamfight due to the amount of condition diversity they have access to, especially when backed up by a second Necromancer or a condi Engineer/Ranger.

• Terror: Moved to Grandmaster tier. “Withering Precision” has been moved to Master tier. Let’s face it: even after the latest patch, Terror is still the strongest trait in the Curses line, and deserves to be at Grandmaster tier. Furthermore, the moving of this trait into Grandmaster makes it impossible to have Dhuumfire, Terror, and Master of Terror in the same build, and gives the Necromancer some very important decisions to make when building for condis. As it stands, it’s just too easy to put all the best condition traits together in the same build and achieve excellent DPS and long CCs with great sustainability — a very deadly combination.

• Enfeebling Blood and Weakening Shroud: The weakness durations on this skill and trait are now 5 seconds, down from 10 seconds. Weakness has become a very strong condition as of the 6/25 patch, and has really cut down on the viability of most physical DPS builds. Weakness duration in general was reduced in that patch, but not enough on this skill and trait. 10 seconds of weakness AoE (before condition duration +%) is just way too long when considering its ease of application.

Engineer

• Elixir R: Increased the cooldown to 45 seconds. It is now an instant stun breaker. “Toss Elixir R” now revives 12% per pulse, down from 20%. Eliminating Elixir R as a stun breaker restricted Engineer builds to a severe degree, when all that was really needed was a reduction on its revive power so that (for instance) an Engineer can be finished in a 1v1 without having a very good chance to self-revive. Adjusting its revival power would keep its utility as a team res assist without making Engis as hard to finish in 1v1 and 2v2 situations.

Ranger

• Spirits: All spirit passive abilities now have an internal cooldown of 12 seconds, up from 10 seconds. It’s no secret that Spirit Rangers are on the rise, and it’s largely because of the high amounts of Protection and Burning procs caused while being able to hold their own in most 1v1 situations, making for an optimal home point defender. I don’t believe this build is vastly overpowered, and certain builds (ones with good AoE cleave) can do very well against it. However, the large number of procs generated in a team fight situation is just too high at the moment and could use a small adjustment downward in power level.

Thief

• Shadow Trap: The maximum duration has been decreased to 75 seconds, down from 120 seconds. Thieves still have good damage, but their current ubiquity in high level play mostly stems from their extremely high mobility. A well-played thief can feel like it’s everywhere at once, putting pressure on the enemy team’s home point while still being present elsewhere on the map, thanks to the recently-buffed Shadow Trap. While I can appreciate ArenaNet’s desire to make underused utilities more PvP-viable, this one was pushed a little too far. Reducing Shadow Trap’s duration would leave it still viable (similar to how the Mesmer Portal is still useful) while reducing the thief’s mobility to more reasonable levels.

• Infiltrator’s Strike: “Shadow Return” now cannot be used while feared or under a control effect. S/D Thieves are certainly strong, but the most difficult part of dealing with them is that when you do land a well-timed CC while they aren’t evading, they are almost always able to teleport away, wait for the CC to end, and then teleport back. By removing their ability to Shadow Return away while CCed, you are able to punish the Thief at the ends of their evades more easily and thus land some damage on them at opportune moments.

This would be awesome. But also increase the cast time of elixr r to be in line with other resses. And reduce the health of the natures renewal spirit by 20%

Why peeps who never played seriously a necromancer keep coming in this thread suggesting stupid things (which revolve mainly on breaking the little synergy we have in talent trees).

Stop acting as if fears are on 5s cooldown and can be spammed, and there’s no stability / dodge / blind / kb / kd in game. Nobody gives a kitten about 1v1, is not balanced, never was, if you run into a necro with full LF and can’t beat him, guess what, you can avoid fighting him, same doesn’t work for necro.

What’s with this mentality that condition damage should be a very slow process? So you should be able to kill me with your autoattacks in 10 seconds, but my conditions should need 1 minute to kill you? WHY? Be honest here, the cooldown on all burst abilities is very small, which gives you no chance to counter / avoid more than 1 maybe 2 sequences of said burst. So it’s ok for you to be able every 10s to 100-0% someone with power/crit builds, but for a condition build I should have to wait for a minute or more? No thank you, I want to be able to kill you in 10 seconds if you don’t have any defensive cds / condition cleansing / play badly / I use all my abilities. Why do I have to stay there for 1 minute sussceptible to 6 burst intervals on average from any zerker class, just for my damage to wear you down? That makes no sense.

Burning is fine. 3-4k dmg over time. How much does your autoattack crit for with no resource cost, as a power / critdmg build? Am very positive it does way more damage over those 4s. And you can do it all time, with no ICD 10s.

But you don’t like it you say it’s op. Fine, remove it, instead add chill and increase damage by 200% on sceptre 3 because it’s patethic, so we can get 4-5k crits with it when we load something with conditions, so we still have a mini burst available.

Heck P/D thieves do 1k hits with autoattack on top of applying bleeds, how much does sceptre 1 hit for again?

morx.1738:

This is directly for the devs:

If you really are going to hotfix smth about the necros for the tournament then, for heaven’s sake, only change it for sPvP. Necros struggle enough in PvE and WvW, especially in WvW since organized guilds run high condition cleansing and high condition duration reduction (melandru runes and lemongrass soup).

This.

Quite frankly I’m becoming a bit scared for my necro given some of the nerfs people want. Necro damage too high.. it sure as kitten isn’t in PvE!! Necros do too much dmg from range, nerf their range. Oh, you want me to go melee against the Statue of Dwayna which easily and often hits for 19k?

I would seriously suggest that ANet look at separating sPvP from PvE/WvW because balancing for the former is going to totally screw over the later.

Lothirieth.3408:

because balancing for the former is going to totally screw over the later.

I’d say it already has.

step 1) hear the treb shout
step 2) count to 3
step 3) dodge

congratulations, you just took 0 damage from a treb shot without wasting an invulnerability cd or whatever

step 1) hear the treb shout
step 2) count to 3
step 3) dod….kitten only 1 dodge every 10 sec on this class with no acces to vigor

I can dodge them quite well thank you, but guess what, I can do better with other classes survivability tool WHILE stomping and being under treb fire. No need to dodge! I just wanted to show that our super duper DS “Live infinitely” tool is not working as well, and it’s all we have when our 2 dodges are done.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Lothirieth.3408:

because balancing for the former is going to totally screw over the later.

I’d say it already has.

I’ve not been doing dungeons for a fair while on my necro as they’re not really wanted and my warrior is frankly much better, nor do I run a DS build.. but remembering how I used to use DS in dungeons whenever necro was my only toon… yeah I can see we’ve been screwed over. All for the sake of tournaments and ANet wanting a corner of the esports market. -_-

Lordrosicky.5813:

This would be awesome. But also increase the cast time of elixr r to be in line with other resses. And reduce the health of the natures renewal spirit by 20%

For Elixir R, I think the instant cast on it would be ok if the res % is nerfed. It’s instant cast, but it takes time for it to have its effect. I think that’s balanced, but testing would help determine if that’s true.

I’m not sure about the health of the Nature spirit, if it gets focus fired well, it can die quickly enough. It’s definitely a thought, but I’m not sure if the health on it enough is to be game-breaking. At least, I don’t think it’s bad enough to need a hotfix.

Now that I think of it: the real weakness of necromancer is IMMOBALIZE. Shouts are instant cleanse, thus the best skills in the game to remove immobalize. However necromancer condition removal is slow and unreliable. Like dagger 4 can mis, or tranfer wrong conditions. Staff 4 doesn’t work on downed and is nerfed recently (no longer transfers ALL conditions in all scenario’s.). Consume conditions has a very long cast time for a healing skill. And is very predictable.

You want a way to kill necro? Immobalize him, wait exactly 1 sec (not any longer), then STUN him. This will lock him into place almost certainly, just spam your aoe’s (grenades, barrage, traps, berserker phantasm wathever). Try it. Necro is one of the worst professions to counter this combo.

Now THAT is why necro 500 hour + mains perveive necro survival as bad. Almost any profession can get easely out of this combo without much utility slow waste. There’s more situations like this, but this one is the most obvious to show the weakness of necromancer. Why people love to focus a necro first.

All This QQ just because i finally got to kill some rank 1.000.000 players after a long and fair fight on my rank 19 necro.

Shark emotes do come cheap these days.. ^^

They don’t want to separate PVP and PVE skills, but the deathshroud damage absorbtion needs to be an exception, for one simple reason – high end PVE revolves around one-shot mechanics, and burst is not a counter to it.

In PVP, at least you know the elemental who blew through your health in 2s can probably be killed in that same amount of time – you just have to burst them first. In PVE, you can’t “burst” bosses with your condition damage – you need to have some defense. Invunerability, blocks, blinks….anything. Currently our one psuedo-invuln has been taken away.

As long as they refuse to separate pvp and pve, they need to take responsibility for the effects the changes will have to both aspects of the game. The necromancer lacks survivablity because we have condi pressure? I’ll be sure to “burst” lupi down with my condi pressure before he has a chance to kill me next time. Counter pressure with condition damage doesn’t work in PVE, so either that needs to not be the focus of the class, or a split needs to be made.

Allie Murdock.8152:

Ok, here’s the deal. I’m hearing different things from everyone I talk to.

1. Necro DS is too much and should be brought down
2. Necro damage is too much and should be brought down
3. Necro survivability is bad

“DS is too much”

It’s not when you consider our complete lack of evade, vigor, block, and invulnerability. You cannot heal in deathshroud. Not to mention we have terrible mobility, and you have to take the time to build life force, which is hard at the beginning of the match or as a bunker.

“Damage is too much”

Dhuumfire is what everyone is complaining about, yes? What necros want to know is why it was even implemented. No one running the standard condi build asked for burning. The specs that need burning are power/hybrid builds, and they aren’t about to put 30 points into spite to get it.

Condi necros didn’t need burning – you gave us torment which is enough to protect our bleeds, and our damage was fine. What we needed was better mobility OR access to vigor, block, invuln, or evade.

“Survivability is bad”

Against anyone who knows what they’re doing, IT IS. Remember what I said above? No block. No evade. No vigor. No invuln. A stunbreaker utility that isn’t going to be chosen over Spectral Armor now. A distinct lack of mobility/escapes.

All someone has to do against a necro is stunlock or assist train them to death. I honestly don’t see why it takes several 1vx videos to see the survivability problem.

Saltare.5789:

Allie Murdock.8152:

Ok, here’s the deal. I’m hearing different things from everyone I talk to.

1. Necro DS is too much and should be brought down
2. Necro damage is too much and should be brought down
3. Necro survivability is bad

“DS is too much”

It’s not when you consider our complete lack of evade, vigor, block, and invulnerability. You cannot heal in deathshroud. Not to mention we have terrible mobility, and you have to take the time to build life force, which is hard at the beginning of the match or as a bunker.

“Damage is too much”

Dhuumfire is what everyone is complaining about, yes? What necros want to know is why it was even implemented. No one running the standard condi build asked for burning. The specs that need burning are power/hybrid builds, and they aren’t about to put 30 points into spite to get it.

Condi necros didn’t need burning – you gave us torment which is enough to protect our bleeds, and our damage was fine. What we needed was better mobility OR access to vigor, block, invuln, or evade.

“Survivability is bad”

Against anyone who knows what they’re doing, IT IS. Remember what I said above? No block. No evade. No vigor. No invuln. A stunbreaker utility that isn’t going to be chosen over Spectral Armor now. A distinct lack of mobility/escapes.

All someone has to do against a necro is stunlock or assist train them to death. I honestly don’t see why it takes several 1vx videos to see the survivability problem.

Right now DS is not too much because damage in this game is crazy and it’s almost impossible to get the damage off of you (evade spamming thief, 1200 range necros, shortbow spamming rangers) Once some of this damage is nerfed and less reliably applied people will feel hopeless against the new necromancers deathshroud. Some classes already do like elementalist.

Your analysis on burning is spot on.

However your analysis on survivability I will disagree with. Necromancer survivability is absolutely higher than most of these classes that have access to the vigor and invulnerabilities you are talking about. Especially elementalist as I have direct experience with both against top teams in this meta, and I survive way longer on my necromancer. That isn’t to say I don’t get melted to stealth openers at the beginning of the game, but who doesn’t get melted by stealth openers? Even guardians get instagibbed by it there isn’t any stopping it reliably and necromancers actually have a chance if the other team doensn’t coordinate right and I pop plague form as I see the damage start hitting, which has happened.

Ok first of all why an elemental make a “Constructive necromancer”, bring ppl with 1k hour play on necro not some Fotm choice maybe u know necro from spvp part but u know how much trouble have a necro in pve as conditionmancer .Or did u try to enter the world of “100b wars and they ridiculous damage and mentality that nothing can’t replace a war on dps in group”
since u just have “damage over time” and they are 3 time better u. This is off topic i know but i’m scared that future changes will affect my class even more my main.And yes i play conditions in pve also

Second point is this necro are not Immortals like we knew elem was, we have quite few counters ( i don’t tell u how to beat a necro since all knows necro is nr1 target)

I just notice since the “rise of necro” that ppl don’t want more diversity in the spvp and i spoke about premade teams . U mentality is block on the same meta that didn’t had a necro or u didn’t take any cond clean since no one was using conditons .
We were almost extinct few weeks ago and now all scream about necros .

My opinion about the actual damage of necro replace fire damage from spite with 6 stacks of tourments same CD same ICD, in this way maybe we stop ppl from disengaging from use reset the fight and engage later just because they have (blink or other tricks and necro can’t chase them since he is to slow)

Just my opinion on this post as a hybrid player both spvp under rank 40 and pve high fractal player.

Phantaram.1265:

Saltare.5789:

Allie Murdock.8152:

Ok, here’s the deal. I’m hearing different things from everyone I talk to.

1. Necro DS is too much and should be brought down
2. Necro damage is too much and should be brought down
3. Necro survivability is bad

“DS is too much”

It’s not when you consider our complete lack of evade, vigor, block, and invulnerability. You cannot heal in deathshroud. Not to mention we have terrible mobility, and you have to take the time to build life force, which is hard at the beginning of the match or as a bunker.

“Damage is too much”

Dhuumfire is what everyone is complaining about, yes? What necros want to know is why it was even implemented. No one running the standard condi build asked for burning. The specs that need burning are power/hybrid builds, and they aren’t about to put 30 points into spite to get it.

Condi necros didn’t need burning – you gave us torment which is enough to protect our bleeds, and our damage was fine. What we needed was better mobility OR access to vigor, block, invuln, or evade.

“Survivability is bad”

Against anyone who knows what they’re doing, IT IS. Remember what I said above? No block. No evade. No vigor. No invuln. A stunbreaker utility that isn’t going to be chosen over Spectral Armor now. A distinct lack of mobility/escapes.

All someone has to do against a necro is stunlock or assist train them to death. I honestly don’t see why it takes several 1vx videos to see the survivability problem.

Right now DS is not too much because damage in this game is crazy and it’s almost impossible to get the damage off of you (evade spamming thief, 1200 range necros, shortbow spamming rangers) Once some of this damage is nerfed and less reliably applied people will feel hopeless against the new necromancers deathshroud. Some classes already do like elementalist.

Your analysis on burning is spot on.

However your analysis on survivability I will disagree with. Necromancer survivability is absolutely higher than most of these classes that have access to the vigor and invulnerabilities you are talking about. Especially elementalist as I have direct experience with both against top teams in this meta, and I survive way longer on my necromancer. That isn’t to say I don’t get melted to stealth openers at the beginning of the game, but who doesn’t get melted by stealth openers? Even guardians get instagibbed by it there isn’t any stopping it reliably and necromancers actually have a chance if the other team doensn’t coordinate right and I pop plague form as I see the damage start hitting, which has happened.

I just spend around 4 hours dueling a friend his ele on my necro.

Both as minion build and as power build my ds can’t soak up nearly as much dmg as you claim it can. Start a battle with 0 ds, like a realistic situation and learn ALL aspects of the necro before you cry about us having too much survivability. Change DS and you effectively ruin all minion and power builds aswell.
The problem, which has been said a thousand times by ALL necros on the forum is dumbfire, remove that godforsaken trait that none ever asked for in the first place and all your problems are solved. No more “op burst” from burning meaning you have more time to kill them.

On a side note, as a power/minion necro I have no problems facing the dumbfire meta build myself. I run no cond cleaning skills on that build cept for Deadly Swarm on offhand dagger. They are killable and not op with their ds. As an ele main yourself you have way more burst than me and you find them op?

Shar.3402:

step 1) hear the treb shout
step 2) count to 3
step 3) dodge

congratulations, you just took 0 damage from a treb shot without wasting an invulnerability cd or whatever

I got a good laugh from this, thanks

Seems like some people don’t realise that the treb can fire faster than you can regen endurance naturally. Spoiled by vigor and regen traits I guess.

Phantaram.1265:

Right now DS is not too much because damage in this game is crazy and it’s almost impossible to get the damage off of you (evade spamming thief, 1200 range necros, shortbow spamming rangers) Once some of this damage is nerfed and less reliably applied people will feel hopeless against the new necromancers deathshroud. Some classes already do like elementalist.

Your analysis on burning is spot on.

However your analysis on survivability I will disagree with. Necromancer survivability is absolutely higher than most of these classes that have access to the vigor and invulnerabilities you are talking about. Especially elementalist as I have direct experience with both against top teams in this meta, and I survive way longer on my necromancer. That isn’t to say I don’t get melted to stealth openers at the beginning of the game, but who doesn’t get melted by stealth openers? Even guardians get instagibbed by it there isn’t any stopping it reliably and necromancers actually have a chance if the other team doensn’t coordinate right and I pop plague form as I see the damage start hitting, which has happened.

I’m going to strongly disagree with you on survivability. Our only option is deathsroud. That’s it. Due to our limited mobility, we can’t escape fights where we are outnumbered, see that we are being outplayed, or are stunlocked.

Thieves can stealth/shadowstep/shortbow away, Ele’s can mistform/updraft/RTL away., Mesmers have blink/portal/veil, etc.

What do we have? Spectral Walk. A single stunbreaker and our access to swiftness. That doesn’t really do much. We are forced to sit there in death shroud and eat the hits. We can’t quickly go support at other points, we can’t bunker effectively because life force gain is difficult in that situation, and good teams will keep you stunned and burn you down because they know you can’t do anything to stop it.

The worst mobility in the game + hardly any defensive/reactive skills (as outlined in my previous post)= poor survivability.

Mammoth.1975:

Shar.3402:

step 1) hear the treb shout
step 2) count to 3
step 3) dodge

congratulations, you just took 0 damage from a treb shot without wasting an invulnerability cd or whatever

I got a good laugh from this, thanks

Seems like some people don’t realise that the treb can fire faster than you can regen endurance naturally. Spoiled by vigor and regen traits I guess.

You’re welcome.
Now go back to complain about how you can’t tank 13k hits with 10% life force anymore

Phantaram.1265:

Right now DS is not too much because damage in this game is crazy and it’s almost impossible to get the damage off of you (evade spamming thief, 1200 range necros, shortbow spamming rangers) Once some of this damage is nerfed and less reliably applied people will feel hopeless against the new necromancers deathshroud. Some classes already do like elementalist.

Your analysis on burning is spot on.

However your analysis on survivability I will disagree with. Necromancer survivability is absolutely higher than most of these classes that have access to the vigor and invulnerabilities you are talking about. Especially elementalist as I have direct experience with both against top teams in this meta, and I survive way longer on my necromancer. That isn’t to say I don’t get melted to stealth openers at the beginning of the game, but who doesn’t get melted by stealth openers? Even guardians get instagibbed by it there isn’t any stopping it reliably and necromancers actually have a chance if the other team doensn’t coordinate right and I pop plague form as I see the damage start hitting, which has happened.

You are spot on about Burning and the damage in this game being way too high. There is also way too much AoE. You need a lot more single target abilities and remove a lot of the cleaves from MH weapons, and you will see a more balanced game. There needs to be less access to protection in every class, and less access to weakness in certain classes. This would bring a lot more skill to the game.

However, your survivability comment is way offbase, and is more a reflection of you playing players who don’t deal with Necromancers that often. Plague form is a 3 minute elite form that you just wasted 10 seconds into a fight which no other class would have to burn because 2 players jumped you at the start of a fight. If you would have gone into ds, you would have burned your ds and died so you had to waste your elite to soak up damage instead of using a block/invuln/evade or other form which has a much quicker return.

DS with Spectral Armor is incredible for 6 seconds, and then it’s bad. Granted it’s every minute you get 6 seconds of extremely powerful return, but then why isn’t the thief just stealing your boon. Your situations are flawed in that there is always a counter to it. It’s also flawed, because of your lack of experience playing a necromancer. Plague is used to push a point or hold it or blind so you can rez the guardian who just got destroyed by the sheer amount of damage in this game.

The problem still relies on players not seeing the protection on top of you, and then simply knocking you down and around until it’s off. It’s not complicated or tough to kill a necromancer. It’s just there is a whole group of players used to just running in and if we didn’t get away they watched us die. Now we can actually live through a concentrated burst because they never thought of Protection on us.

That’s not to say that DS plus Spectral Armor plus DS damage isn’t a bit over the top especially in a 30/10/0/0/30 build, but if any of our actual attrition skills worked (Blood Magic) or we could receive heals while in DS you would see less complaining about this change from actual Necromancer players.

That being said, you are 100 percent right about the fact that once a Necromancer snowballs with a good guardian or ele next to him he is ridiculously tough to kill and will kill you.

Phantaram.1265:

…1200 range necros…

necromancers actually have a chance if the other team doensn’t coordinate right and I pop plague form as I see the damage start hitting, which has happened.

… so now 1200 range on staff is the problem?

… and plague form, the 3 minute cooldown elite skill that prevents you from getting melee trained for 20 seconds but doesn’t stop ranged or condition damage, and gives you a whopping 200 dps to melee range opponents?

Well alright then, I look forward to your next video. I suggest sitting on a point and popping plague form while having 3 or four CC warriors beating on you. Be sure to break from the video immediately after the 20 seconds are up so nobody sees what happens after plague form ends. You can call it “NECRO SURVIVABILITY SO OP” or something like that.

Shar.3402:

Mammoth.1975:

Shar.3402:

step 1) hear the treb shout
step 2) count to 3
step 3) dodge

congratulations, you just took 0 damage from a treb shot without wasting an invulnerability cd or whatever

I got a good laugh from this, thanks

Seems like some people don’t realise that the treb can fire faster than you can regen endurance naturally. Spoiled by vigor and regen traits I guess.

You’re welcome.
Now go back to complain about how you can’t tank 13k hits with 10% life force anymore

go back to mist forming every 60 seconds while stomping thus avoiding all the 13k damage or simply dodging all of it and then knowing that your easy access to vigor will allow you to do it more than once in a blue moon. Or simply use anyone of your other elementalist bag of tricks to avoid the damage knowing that the 40-60 second CD is all you have to worry about.