Guild Wars 2

oZii.2864:
This is narrow minded tbh the game has been out for almost a year some have played it longer than that. Your looking at it from a us vs them point of view. You really think everyone in the game has only 1 class slot or whatever is in their sig is the only class they play after 1 year? This is like the guardian the other day who I killed on my mesmer telling me to reroll a “Real class” rofl.

However you’re wrong, it IS a case of US versus THEM. This entire DS nerf was pushed forward based on pvp feedback only, and PVE was not even considered. They tried to squeeze this in before the pax tournament, without considering PVE. NO ONE asked necromancers in the necro forum, what effect such a change could have in PVE. The end result is a disaster. Necromancers are now unable to defend themselves against various bosses in the game, that other classes manage fine.

oZii.2864:
Taking information from everyone is the best you can do if you are polling. It gives you a perspective on each type of player. The players that love the class to their very soul can be just a short sighted as those that don’t play the class.

Then just maybe they should start doing that! Because the reason you’re now seeing a ton of angry PVE necros posting in this pvp topic, is because they noticed their favourite class was being destroyed for PVE secretly on a different forum by pvp players. Not a single person brought up the topic of PVE.

Also, Blood Red Arachnid you are correct. We could really use a cleave on the axe for PVE.

“Madness is just another way to view reality”
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y)

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Posted by: Oidmetala.8426

Oidmetala.8426

Drakula.8405:
Oidmetala.8426:
Drakula.8405:
The developers answer just prove what is the situation— Necro in this game are the MINORITY!!! compare to other classes, 30% of player base in Gw2 are guardians 24% war and when ppl from that classes cry about necro and ask nerf for our class what u expect ???
Guardians cry about nerf Corrupted Boon — was nerf after that terror now the fire damage ….were u guys going with this ?? to delete my class and be force to play other class that i don’t like .

Since an ele started this thread and since the result was a nerf i’m very disappointed .

GUYS DON’T LIE TO YOURSELF THEY DON’T WANT ANY KIND OF NECRO IN THE NEW META!
I’m waiting to the point when i will be like i was a free kill in spvp just like all mesmer /thief/ele wants.

I hope will not become the bunkers fight in the new meta since the only thing that killed a bunker was conditions but is this what u ask for .

Pls don’t balance this class with the suggestion from other class players in the future

sad, but your main class is still op.
i have do 1vs1 before the nerf and after the nerf vs necromancer.
still cant win it. (no ulti use)
dont know wheres the logic on necros atm.
win nearly each1vs1 and be a beast at the teamfight.
also win vs builds just created for 1vs1s…
simple kite enemys and stay on distance when spam them to hell…
np with enough cripple, fear and slows…

for sure the qq against necro is huge, because nearly nobody can beat this atm.
there are only some less builds can win a necro atm
and this also not so easy…
sry but playing necro need not much skill atm, start spam is most time enough to bring enemy player fast in trouble and defensive, because its like a condi burst.
also double fear is lame like hell when u hit the staff fear and spam fast the ds fear then and maybe put the fear wall after when its a point defender you fight there… wow, gg.
most lame profession atm and most easy to play one.
no reason to defend this, im not calling much for nerfs, but because necro, fun stoped hard to play this game atm… (well when i play a bit necro then not, because its like godmode)
see teams play double necro is reason enough to start thinking…

a necro on khylo trebu is a huge problem atm when you face one of this much double necro teams.

Since when spvp is 1vs1?

And are builds that kill a terrormancer in 1vs1 , don’t know what u play but necro isn’t immortal .Did u even try to adjust with traits or utilities vs a necro or u just didn’t bother with this??

where i have write pvp is 1vs1?
u have read my full message or not?
i just wonder why necro have to win nearly each 1vs1 and is ALSO a monster in the teamfight.
when you dont go fast for the necro he wipe the full team, the guard goes so hard in trouble when the nec stand free and start spam.
and 2 ppls who go for the nec have it not rly easy to become him down.

for me its most lame profession atm, it was not bad balanced for the kitten buffs.
the patch have buff the nec just rly to MUCH.
for sure nec main players defend it now like hell, because its the free ticket to have easy play atm.
for me np i just start also use it and lame around like much players switched to necro.
this last patches have change the full ladder and meta.

Team Erotic Solitude Legends [ESL]
Spirit Ranger Yilvina Darnus
Bunker Guardian Morwenna Darnus

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Posted by: Loyo.8526

Loyo.8526

Oidmetala.8426:
Drakula.8405:
Oidmetala.8426:
sad, but your main class is still op.
i have do 1vs1 before the nerf and after the nerf vs necromancer.
still cant win it. (no ulti use)
dont know wheres the logic on necros atm.
win nearly each1vs1 and be a beast at the teamfight.
also win vs builds just created for 1vs1s…
simple kite enemys and stay on distance when spam them to hell…
np with enough cripple, fear and slows…

for sure the qq against necro is huge, because nearly nobody can beat this atm.
there are only some less builds can win a necro atm
and this also not so easy…
sry but playing necro need not much skill atm, start spam is most time enough to bring enemy player fast in trouble and defensive, because its like a condi burst.
also double fear is lame like hell when u hit the staff fear and spam fast the ds fear then and maybe put the fear wall after when its a point defender you fight there… wow, gg.
most lame profession atm and most easy to play one.
no reason to defend this, im not calling much for nerfs, but because necro, fun stoped hard to play this game atm… (well when i play a bit necro then not, because its like godmode)
see teams play double necro is reason enough to start thinking…

a necro on khylo trebu is a huge problem atm when you face one of this much double necro teams.

Since when spvp is 1vs1?

And are builds that kill a terrormancer in 1vs1 , don’t know what u play but necro isn’t immortal .Did u even try to adjust with traits or utilities vs a necro or u just didn’t bother with this??

where i have write pvp is 1vs1?
u have read my full message or not?
i just wonder why necro have to win nearly each 1vs1 and is ALSO a monster in the teamfight.
when you dont go fast for the necro he wipe the full team, the guard goes so hard in trouble when the nec stand free and start spam.
and 2 ppls who go for the nec have it not rly easy to become him down.

for me its most lame profession atm, it was not bad balanced for the kitten buffs.
the patch have buff the nec just rly to MUCH.
for sure nec main players defend it now like hell, because its the free ticket to have easy play atm.
for me np i just start also use it and lame around like much players switched to necro.
this last patches have change the full ladder and meta.

You mentioned 1v1s about 3 times in the starting of your post. Believe me, I read the whole thing but thats something that was your opening sentence. Most Necromancers can be killed via CCs and stunlocks. None of them really have stability and most 30/20/0/0/20 builds will take Spectral armor as its only stun break. So what is your problem? Have you even tried this? And if you noticed the buffs to Spectral Armor, you will see that right now Anet is purposely making them good at 1v1s with that skill up. I know you want nerfs, but its getting to the point that outside the recent DS change of HP and spectrals use within the form, Necromancers are actually having alot of their stuff they had forever when they were mostly ‘pocket’ punching bags (who had good damage before) taken away. What more needs to be nerfed in your opinion?

Fear is a class mechanic and so is terror so taking those away would just make the class very generic. Vampiric was already bad in scaling, and they already nerfed corrupt boon. Necromancer ‘block’ (its not existant anymore) moved terror up another tier along a damage nerf. Greater marks was moved up also. Putrid mark was nerfed on staff so condis arent full transfers, its 3.

Just tell us what you think needs to be nerfed specifically.

Khloe Deschanel – Human Necromancer/ Ami Ginju – Human Ranger [DOLO] -SBI
I stream sometimes: http://www.twitch.tv/kidtofu/
“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum”

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Posted by: HPLT.7132

HPLT.7132

Its pointless to discuss Morw ^^ These guys think that they just lost because necro sucked and now they are “finally” balanced. Fact is every Ele in the game is loosing against a hotjoin scrub necro since he just have to land 1 autoattack and you loose almost 50% of your hp. That is not what i call balanced…
And I dont know where these guys are playing but in every tournament game at least 1 (sometimes 3-4 necros) do participate. Maybe they confuse the mists with dragon bash….

If you play necro nowadays and still get owned by alot of classes you just suck…sad but true.

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Posted by: Drakula.8405

Drakula.8405

HPLT.7132:
Its pointless to discuss Morw ^^ These guys think that they just lost because necro sucked and now they are “finally” balanced. Fact is every Ele in the game is loosing against a hotjoin scrub necro since he just have to land 1 autoattack and you loose almost 50% of your hp. That is not what i call balanced…
And I dont know where these guys are playing but in every tournament game at least 1 (sometimes 3-4 necros) do participate. Maybe they confuse the mists with dragon bash….

If you play necro nowadays and still get owned by alot of classes you just suck…sad but true.

Wow i want my 1 auto attack to do 7k damage!!! (this made my day reading forums in term of exaggeration) . U sir don’t even have a idea when bleed /burning proc from auto attack but u come and rage on forum that u elem that use to be immortal and now lose to necro since u use to beat them or outlasting them .

Or is must be the new flavor of elem that can bust 18k in few sec and cry that he was down by conditions.

But ppl like u make the rest of community that didn’t play a necro to believe that necro auto attack does 7k damage .

(edited 2013-07-27 14:44:44 by Drakula.8405)

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Posted by: Seezungenschleuder.8319

Because the fear trait scales with conditions on the opponent, it synergizes well with Dhuumfire and the new torment condition. So I suggest to remove that condition-scaling component from the trait.

Dhuumfire itself is also not that “cool” (you know, because it’s fire), so you should remove that too. And replace it with something that’s round about 20% cooler.

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Posted by: Kravick.4906

Kravick.4906

Seezungenschleuder.8319:
Because the fear trait scales with conditions on the opponent, it synergizes well with Dhuumfire and the new torment condition. So I suggest to remove that condition-scaling component from the trait.

No, it doesn’t. Terror does the exact same amount of damage if you have two conditions vs 6 conditions. You guys need to actually read what the trait does. If the target has NO conditions, terror does normal damage (less than burning now). If the target has 1 or more conditions, terror will do 50% more damage. Its not increased damage per condition. Its a flat 50% increase in damage, regardless of how many conditions the target has. Just as long as there is at least 1 condition other than itself.

Stuff goes here.

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Posted by: Seezungenschleuder.8319

No, it doesn’t. Terror does the exact same amount of damage if you have two conditions vs 6 conditions. You guys need to actually read what the trait does. If the target has NO conditions, terror does 50% less damage. If the target has 1 or more conditions, terror will do 50% more damage. Its not increased damage per condition. Its a flat 50% increase in damage, regardless of how many conditions the target has. Just as long as there is at least 1 condition.

Dhuumfire is still not a cool thing.

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Posted by: Kravick.4906

Kravick.4906

Seezungenschleuder.8319:
No, it doesn’t. Terror does the exact same amount of damage if you have two conditions vs 6 conditions. You guys need to actually read what the trait does. If the target has NO conditions, terror does 50% less damage. If the target has 1 or more conditions, terror will do 50% more damage. Its not increased damage per condition. Its a flat 50% increase in damage, regardless of how many conditions the target has. Just as long as there is at least 1 condition.

Dhuumfire is still not a cool thing.

Well, heres a tip. Nobody wanted it. Most necros want it gone because it doesn’t fit the theme of the class. We think its a terrible trait that has screwed up our class and gotten several non-op traits nerfed just to placate its existence. We don’t understand why it was even given to us.

Stuff goes here.

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Posted by: sas.6483

sas.6483

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:
It is really hard to make a fix otherwise, since the necromancer is in an uneasy place from which there seems to be no balance:

Survivability: great when you are by yourself and can build up Life Force, terrible in groups where you are helpless to focus and are vulnerable to CC.

Damage: Good when you are by yourself and the opponent has limited cleanses and stun breakers. Bad in groups where you are easily peeled, there are more cleanses about, and when your offense is reliant on blowing all cooldowns or an incredibly situational epidemic.

…

I do have on idea. Someone else on the Necro forum mentioned the idea of having Death Shroud get a scaling damage reduction based on a number of players around. That is fine, however I’d like to go one step simpler.

So, for necromancer survival, I will come up with a very simple suggestion. I do not know if it is good or not, but it potentially will solve some of the problems necromancers have:

Make it so, while in Death Shroud, Necromancers do not take direct damage, period. Then, increase the degen on Death Shroud to be at 20% per second, giving them 5 seconds of DS time at a full bar, before traits are applied.

…

Not to be overly critical, but I think your survivability / damage breakdown is limited to how a particular build plays in sPvP. My experience has been different; I tend to play power / survivability builds in casual PvP and serious WvW.

I have this feeling that there are a bunch of name-recognition necros out there that really want big, complicated changes to necro mechanics. I hope that doesn’t happen. I think that small, simple quality of life changes are sufficient. For example – the whole Dhuumfire incident could have been avoided if Anet just improved baseline power scaling for weapons used by power builds (assuming that the talent was intended to bump power build damage).

As for the proposed changes in DS, again I hope they don’t happen. I think the modest changes that were made by Anet put DS in a better place than it was, although the bleed over into health should be reverted for the obvious reasons. The only further change I’d make is to allow vampiric traits to heal through DS.

… one last comment, that I hope Anet considers, is this – the way this has gone down has pretty well wrecked any interest I might have in organized sPvP, on any class. It seems pretty clear that “balance” is achieved on the basis of listening to a few players that have alterior incentives to say one thing or another. I’m not sure why this is, considering the limited appeal of cash tourneys and such.

- Dr Ebola

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Posted by: Seezungenschleuder.8319

Well, heres a tip. Nobody wanted it. Most necros want it gone because it doesn’t fit the theme of the class. We think its a terrible trait that has screwed up our class and gotten several non-op traits nerfed just to placate its existence. We don’t understand why it was even given to us.

I know that well. I’m playing a necro as main, too. Let’s gather ideas for a replacement trait. I’m in a rush so I can’t post any good ideas right now.

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Posted by: galandor.1059

galandor.1059

Patch notes for August 6th, 2013:

Death Shroud Changes:
We have decided to make much needed changes to Death Shroud by increasing the degeneration rate by 6%, lowering doom duration to 1 second, and removing Tainted Shackles from Death Shroud altogether.
The Necromancer health pool will be lowered to the lowest tier to compensate for their ability to have a second health bar in Death Shroud.
Terror: Reduced the damage by an additional 17%. Added a mechanic that allows Terror to be reflected to the user.
Dhuumfire: Reduced the duration by another 50%, increased the cool down to 15 seconds.
Chill: Have reworked the duration on all skills in the Necromancer line to have a duration of 2 seconds.
Weakness: Have removed weakness from all skills in the Necromancer lines.
Bleed: Have lowered the duration on all skills in the Necromancer line by 50%.

Engineer:Warrior:Necromancer – Rank 39

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Posted by: ninao.1208

ninao.1208

where´s the balance??
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Necro-Demotivational-Poster/first#post2500430

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Posted by: Blood Red Arachnid.2493

Blood Red Arachnid.2493

sas.6483:
Not to be overly critical, but I think your survivability / damage breakdown is limited to how a particular build plays in sPvP. My experience has been different; I tend to play power / survivability builds in casual PvP and serious WvW.

I have this feeling that there are a bunch of name-recognition necros out there that really want big, complicated changes to necro mechanics. I hope that doesn’t happen. I think that small, simple quality of life changes are sufficient. For example – the whole Dhuumfire incident could have been avoided if Anet just improved baseline power scaling for weapons used by power builds (assuming that the talent was intended to bump power build damage).

As for the proposed changes in DS, again I hope they don’t happen. I think the modest changes that were made by Anet put DS in a better place than it was, although the bleed over into health should be reverted for the obvious reasons. The only further change I’d make is to allow vampiric traits to heal through DS.

… one last comment, that I hope Anet considers, is this – the way this has gone down has pretty well wrecked any interest I might have in organized sPvP, on any class. It seems pretty clear that “balance” is achieved on the basis of listening to a few players that have alterior incentives to say one thing or another. I’m not sure why this is, considering the limited appeal of cash tourneys and such.

By all means, criticize.

I do think that LF is limited to particular builds, too. In particular, power builds tend to have a whole lot more Life Force generation, both in axe/dagger mainhand having reliable gain in LF, as well as better access to spectral skills via recharge reduction and Last Gasp. Even when running Soul Marks, condition builds don’t accumulate nearly as much life force as a power build.

This may cause issues in such a change, since it makes the access to an active defense via DS block unbalanced in a particular build’s favor. Now, I’ve made power builds in sPVP as well, and I was never really stunned by them in terms of survivability. I haven’t run one with the new LF change, however. Whether in Soldier’s or Berserker, the defense of necromancer always felt lacking. I end up getting knocked around like a pinball, and even with double the effective HP from Soldier’s, it was rarely an effort to ever kill me by my opponents.

It’s the reason why I use a MM necro in sPVP instead of my WvW build. It provides enough control to alleviate pressure, and even when knocked down my minions continue to maintain an offense. But with all of the AoE now, the minions are dying much quicker, leaving me quite helpless despite my bulk. When fighting multiple opponents, the offense from the minions gets split and the die quicker, and in turn I die quicker as well.

So, I experience the survivability issue of “powerful in small engagements, helpless in large engagements” on conditionmancers, terrormancers, and power based minion master builds. Maybe there’s some build you’ve found that works that I haven’t found yet, but so far there hasn’t been a thing that I’ve found effective on necromancers that doesn’t suffer from the strange dichotomy of being strong by itself, weak in groups.

I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.

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Posted by: Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046

Saw one of those spvp matchups on twitch today, funny how a necro has to be in the team composition and then seeing them do what they do best in pvp..rally the opponens.

54 infractions and counting because a moderator doesn’t understand a joke when he/she sees it.
E.A.D.

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Posted by: Dralor.3701

Dralor.3701

jmatb.6307:
Dralor.3701:
How is that entitled? Its cool for other classes to bunker and have access to 1200, but not necro?

Yes some changes need to be made but lets be realistic please.

You can reflect other classes’ projectiles. Nothing a necro does from range can be reflected except staff auto and DS2.

Realistic?

Well you can reflect the auto attack, and marks should not be killing you, they don’t do that much damage or apply that many conditions. Seriously if you are getting killed from the few stacks of bleeding the staff is doing maybe this is the wrong game for you.

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Posted by: chaosgrimm.5837

chaosgrimm.5837

Dralor.3701:
jmatb.6307:
Dralor.3701:
How is that entitled? Its cool for other classes to bunker and have access to 1200, but not necro?

Yes some changes need to be made but lets be realistic please.

You can reflect other classes’ projectiles. Nothing a necro does from range can be reflected except staff auto and DS2.

Realistic?

Well you can reflect the auto attack, and marks should not be killing you, they don’t do that much damage or apply that many conditions. Seriously if you are getting killed from the few stacks of bleeding the staff is doing maybe this is the wrong game for you.

jmatb must be trolling…. if projectile reflection is THAT essential, necromancer should gain the ability to reflect projectiles. They cant reflect any of yours, you can reflect 1 of theirs. Every class has access to reflection except necromancer. (warriors get it but gotta trait into it)

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Posted by: Mad Queen Malafide.7512

chaosgrimm.5837:
jmatb must be trolling…. if projectile reflection is THAT essential, necromancer should gain the ability to reflect projectiles. They cant reflect any of yours, you can reflect 1 of theirs. Every class has access to reflection except necromancer. (warriors get it but gotta trait into it)

This is another thing. There are a couple of boss encounters in PVE that were designed specifically with projectile deflection in mind. Such as those three annoying golems bosses in Sorrow’s Embrace, or the golem boss in CM story mode. Necromancers get obliterated in those encounters, because they have no access to deflection. And a lot of parties are forced to bring a guardian along just to survive such encounters. That can’t be how dungeons are intended.

“Madness is just another way to view reality”
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y)

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Posted by: Lopez.7369

Lopez.7369

I’m pretty sure the dungeons were not designed with projectile deflection in mind. All of the pre-fractal dungeons were slapped together by people who had no idea how anyone would play the game or how the classes would work. They’re just bad.

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Posted by: Mad Queen Malafide.7512

Lopez.7369:
I’m pretty sure the dungeons were not designed with projectile deflection in mind. All of the pre-fractal dungeons were slapped together by people who had no idea how anyone would play the game or how the classes would work. They’re just bad.

If that is the case, it is a miracle players survive in there at all. I tend to agree that dungeons are a giant mess. But some bosses are impossible to overcome unless you grind through them with tons of armor repairs, or bring deflection.

“Madness is just another way to view reality”
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y)

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Posted by: Lopez.7369

Lopez.7369

Just remember that it took one or two months for ArenaNet to start talking about revamping the dungeons. That’s how bad they know they are.

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Posted by: Hakkology.3189

Hakkology.3189

Nerf Necro this, nerf necro that…

I was just starting to enjoy the game, even before the dhuumfire addition. Now i’ve got tired of unstable traits and changes,I might just reroll on ele.

Maybe i’ll just take a break from game. Hope that PAX is worth it.

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Posted by: Enundr.9305

Enundr.9305

Hakkology.3189:
Nerf Necro this, nerf necro that…

I was just starting to enjoy the game, even before the dhuumfire addition. Now i’ve got tired of unstable traits and changes,I might just reroll on ele.

Maybe i’ll just take a break from game. Hope that PAX is worth it.

i think alot of ppl are going to take a break….some flatout quitting……ive already had ppl say this in guild chat lol…..asked random ppl and that say alot of this s*** was stupid beyond all belief……this is ridiculous…..the fact that pve is getting dictated by pvp balances…….i really hope pax was worth it for anet….cause i can tell you alot of ppl might not come back seeing this is how the games going to be handled……i mean seriously why even make the pve content of this game if all that was going to be dictated by pvp opinions? just scrap the pve altogther and go with pvp……see how long the game lasts…..cause thats pretty much the feeling right now…..

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Posted by: Thesilentflute.8761

Thesilentflute.8761

Lol Shame I guess we will have to do without your company. I enjoy all aspects of the game everything is amazingly done for an mmo, but I do share your concern I have been sitting out of tpvp waiting for them to tone down necro.

Edit: And the only thing wrong with the instances is that the players exploit their way through them. You can’t pve for a challenge cause people would rather find a spot to de agro or leash then to fight as intended even if it takes longer. It is a community issue that is self perpetuating.

I see good ideas every day …good in theory. – Shawn Farthing
Masters in Geek Mythology
YOU ARE NOT THE INVENTOR OF WORDS!!! lol

(edited 2013-07-28 02:26:57 by Thesilentflute.8761)

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Posted by: Enundr.9305

Enundr.9305

Thesilentflute.8761:
Lol Shame I guess we will have to do without your company. I enjoy all aspects of the game everything is amazingly done for an mmo, but I do share your concern I have been sitting out of tpvp waiting for them to tone down necro.

Edit: And the only thing wrong with the instances is that the players exploit their way through them. You can’t pve for a challenge cause people would rather find a spot to de agro or leash then to fight as intended even if it takes longer. It is a community issue that is self perpetuating.

i think thats in part due to the fact that some trash mobs are as powerful as boss mobs , and not as rewarding (at all lol) , thats why you see ppl “exploting” their way through them usually , trying to bypass mobs that dont reward and tear your group apart like its a boss group…..not entirely a community issue there……thats the midset of great risk great reward , and hwen you see these mobs you see the risk , but you dont see the reard other then just being able to move forward.

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

Allie Murdock.8152:
The fix that is coming is in consideration of the time that we had to complete it. We are planning to rework some things when we have more time, but felt this would be sufficient for now, considering the first Qualifying tournament is tomorrow.

Awwwwwww how nice! Maybe you could get around to fixing the traits in all the other classes as well? or is that to much to ask for?

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Posted by: Kiriakulos.1690

Kiriakulos.1690

ArmageddonAsh.6430:
Allie Murdock.8152:
The fix that is coming is in consideration of the time that we had to complete it. We are planning to rework some things when we have more time, but felt this would be sufficient for now, considering the first Qualifying tournament is tomorrow.

Awwwwwww how nice! Maybe you could get around to fixing the traits in all the other classes as well? or is that to much to ask for?

So you want effect durations from traits in other classes to get cut by half as well?
You’re a real glutton for punishment aren’t you?

Attrition – A pretty name for taking longer than anyone else to kill something.

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

Kiriakulos.1690:
ArmageddonAsh.6430:
Allie Murdock.8152:
The fix that is coming is in consideration of the time that we had to complete it. We are planning to rework some things when we have more time, but felt this would be sufficient for now, considering the first Qualifying tournament is tomorrow.

Awwwwwww how nice! Maybe you could get around to fixing the traits in all the other classes as well? or is that to much to ask for?

So you want effect durations from traits in other classes to get cut by half as well?
You’re a real glutton for punishment aren’t you?

No. why is it ONLY this trait that they seem to want to fix? How many other traits of other classes that are bugged/ how many other WHOLE trait lines or even the whole tree system is a mess trait placement wise?

Rather then just fix this ONE trait they should be fixing them ALL. Do they only get fixed if LOADS of people complain?

Constructive necromancer thoughts.

in PvP

Posted by: Seezungenschleuder.8319

If Dhuumfire gets removed, you would still be dependent of 30 Spite, because there are no other valid options.

As someone said in the necro forum, Death Magic is only interesting if you go for minions, while Blood Magic is only interesting if you go for wells or minions also. So let’s fix this:

Spite

- Dhuumfire got replaced with Chilled to the bone.

- Chilled to the bone (new Grandmaster trait): Deal damage when chilling a foe. Chilling a foe also applies vulnerability (4 seconds) to them. The amount of vulnerability stacks depends on the chilled duration.

Blood Magic

- Transfusion and Deathly Invigoration swapped places.

- Transfusion: Instead of the previous effect, you are now healed every second you spend in Death Shroud.

- Dagger Mastery merged into Quickening Thirst.

- Vampiric Rituals merged into Ritual Mastery. It now scales with healing power, but the base life stealing got reduced a bit.

- Empowered Blood (new Grandmaster trait): Heal skills grant 5 seconds of fury and might (5 stacks). When using Well of Blood, you and your allies get 3 seconds of fury and might (5 stacks).

- Soul Leech (new Adept trait): Gaining life force also heals you for a small amount, depending on the life force gained.

Death Magic

- Necromantic Corruption got replaced with Bone Armor.

- Bone Armor (new Grandmaster trait): Gain life force and protection (6 seconds) when you take damage greater than 10% of your maximum health in a single strike. This effect can only trigger once every 20 seconds.

Constructive necromancer thoughts.

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

Seezungenschleuder.8319:
- Transfusion: Instead of the previous effect, you are now healed every second you spend in Death Shroud.

No, Just no. They shouldn’t have the normal health bar healed when in Death shroud.
Maybe make it so it gives Regen on exit but NOT heal every second while in DS

Constructive necromancer thoughts.

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Posted by: Seezungenschleuder.8319

No, Just no. They shouldn’t have the normal health bar healed when in Death shroud.
Maybe make it so it gives Regen on exit but NOT heal every second while in DS

Fair enough. Since I can’t edit my post (don’t know why), I’d add that Bone Armor could also grant retaliation instead of life force. And 6 seconds of protection may be a little bit over the top, so… decrease that duration.

Constructive necromancer thoughts.

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Posted by: Mad Queen Malafide.7512

We just need them to revert the change that damage taken in Deathshroud flows into your actual health pool. That change might work fine in pvp, but it’s rubbish for PVE. And surely the devs are aware that PVE is infested with bosses that all have instant-kill mechanics? Necros are the only class with no defense against it. We have no invulnerability, and now we also no longer have DS to take the hit for us.

The irony here is that we also need to build lifeforce in order to keep up DS. No other class needs to do maintenance in order to use some sort of invulnerability skill. But now we can’t even do that any more. For PVE this needs to be reverted.

And devs, for the love of Grenth stop complaining that PVE players are commenting in the wrong forum. We are commenting in the right forum. You made a pvp change to pve that broke the class.

“Madness is just another way to view reality”
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y)

Constructive necromancer thoughts.

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Posted by: Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:
We just need them to revert the change that damage taken in Deathshroud flows into your actual health pool. That change might work fine in pvp, but it’s rubbish for PVE. And surely the devs are aware that PVE is infested with bosses that all have instant-kill mechanics? Necros are the only class with no defense against it. We have no invulnerability, and now we also no longer have DS to take the hit for us.

The irony here is that we also need to build lifeforce in order to keep up DS. No other class needs to do maintenance in order to use some sort of invulnerability skill. But now we can’t even do that any more. For PVE this needs to be reverted.

And devs, for the love of Grenth stop complaining that PVE players are commenting in the wrong forum. We are commenting in the right forum. You made a pvp change to pve that broke the class.

Actually overflow means instagib when in any form in pve or pvp.
Doesn’t matter without cleansing or healing in a from DS,Plague or KILL ME sign you are dead in spvp.

also bump on this thread since it is constructive.

54 infractions and counting because a moderator doesn’t understand a joke when he/she sees it.
E.A.D.

Constructive necromancer thoughts.

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Posted by: Atherakhia.4086

I can’t imagine they’ll ever revert the DS issue. Despite it having a large impact on overkill skills, it really did feel like a bug fix. It’s pretty obvious they never intended Necromancers to live through enormous hits and such. The only thing you can hope for is for further improvements to offset the change in some fashion that wouldn’t instantly make things overpowered everywhere else.

Protection when leaving deathshroud for example. An AE knockback and protection if LF is reduced to 0 and you don’t toggle DS off. Things like this.

Constructive necromancer thoughts.

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Posted by: Anelyn.4593

Anelyn.4593

Seezungenschleuder.8319:
If Dhuumfire gets removed, you would still be dependent of 30 Spite, because there are no other valid options.

As someone said in the necro forum, Death Magic is only interesting if you go for minions, while Blood Magic is only interesting if you go for wells or minions also.

How so? I enjoy 0/30/20/0/20 build, S/D with staff, cooldown red on staff + greater unblockable marks, 20% red on spectral skills + 3% LF on marks triggering.

Why on earth would I go 30 on spite (with or w/o dhuumfire) for 30% cond duration and crap minor / major traits?

Constructive necromancer thoughts.

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Posted by: Mad Queen Malafide.7512

Atherakhia.4086:
Protection when leaving deathshroud for example. An AE knockback and protection if LF is reduced to 0 and you don’t toggle DS off. Things like this.

That would not be enough. Any boss hits right through protection. And bosses are by default all immune to knockback, so it’s still an insta-kill.

We really need a way to absorb a huge hit regardless of what the damage amount is. We already have the burden of having to build life force first, which no other class needs to do for invulnerability/evade. We can’t have a numeric-based damage absorption along with that. That makes us too vulnerable against encounters that don’t scale well. We need a solution that fixes us for PVE regardless of damage numbers.

“Madness is just another way to view reality”
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y)

Constructive necromancer thoughts.

in PvP

Posted by: Atherakhia.4086

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:
Atherakhia.4086:
Protection when leaving deathshroud for example. An AE knockback and protection if LF is reduced to 0 and you don’t toggle DS off. Things like this.

That would not be enough. Any boss hits right through protection. And bosses are by default all immune to knockback, so it’s still an insta-kill.

We really need a way to absorb a huge hit regardless of what the damage amount is. We already have the burden of having to build life force first, which no other class needs to do for invulnerability/evade. We can’t have a numeric-based damage absorption along with that. That makes us too vulnerable against encounters that don’t scale well. We need a solution that fixes us for PVE regardless of damage numbers.

But the necro has other advantages. Being a ranged class for example. Rangers in PvE don’t have vigor regen iirc, so they have the same 2 dodge rolls a necro does for example. Thieves have no invuln, lowest hp, and melee. What out there deals 50k damage that would kill a 20k hp necro with a 20k shroud with protection up?

Constructive necromancer thoughts.

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Posted by: Mad Queen Malafide.7512

Atherakhia.4086:
But the necro has other advantages. Being a ranged class for example. Rangers in PvE don’t have vigor regen iirc, so they have the same 2 dodge rolls a necro does for example. Thieves have no invuln, lowest hp, and melee. What out there deals 50k damage that would kill a 20k hp necro with a 20k shroud with protection up?

Ranged is rubbish. That is the sort of thing they kick you out of parties for.

Thieves have evade. Rangers have evade.

And you don’t even have to go that far as to find a boss that deals 50k damage. All you need is a boss that does more damage than a player has HP (of which there are several). Since the excess damage spills into your actual healthpool, you will not be able to survive a second hit. Necromancers need to rebuild their life force after that, and they need to refill it a lot to take another hit of that magnitude. Neither rangers or thieves have this problem, because they do not have to build lifeforce to use evade skills.

“Madness is just another way to view reality”
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y)

Constructive necromancer thoughts.

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Posted by: Mad Queen Malafide.7512

Caffynated.5713:
They may need to just go ahead and ban the PvE trolls. This is the sPvP forum and spamming about unrelated content is getting old.

It’s NOT unrelated content.

The last balance affected necromancers in all aspects of the game! This needs to be addressed. If balance decisions based on feedback in this forum only affected pvp necromancers, you would not be seeing any PVE necromancers like myself in this topic.

But that is not the case. A pvp balance decision was made that negatively affected PVE and WvW necromancers. So this is precisely where the feedback from PVE necromancers should be. When devs decide to balance our class, they should realize that they also affect other areas of the game, unless they split the skills.

This means that even pvp devs share responsibility for what happens to the class in PVE and WvW.

“Madness is just another way to view reality”
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y)

Constructive necromancer thoughts.

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Posted by: Gryph.8237

Gryph.8237

I am sorry, but the DEVs lost a lot of signficant Necro players in the 11 months it took them to add significant improvements. And don’t tell me that over time they added big improvements to the necro, because a lot of the so called improvements were actually BUG FIXES, and slight compensations to the HUGE nerf following beta. Axe useful anyone?

Terror had been around for awhile and is not in itself OP. However, adding one more access to fear, supposedly upset the entire balance for necros, when you combine it with dhuumfire, which was the DEVs bright idea and did not coincide with the necro community. I for one, welcome increased damage if they are going to make us pin cushions, and give us absolutely 0 options for escape or damage mitigation. PLayers with existing skills/utilities that allow for Stealth, blink, or increased evades, blocks, invulns significantly outweight the necros ability to mitigate damage.

I have grown so tired of seeing how the devs make these changes to their favored classes (mesmers, guardians, thieves, eles) while ignoring classes like the necro. I can almost imagine a scenario where they just gave the necros these buffs so they can actually turn around and nerf the crap out of us again. Case in point, add fire dmg, nerf terror, then nerf fire damage to where both are weakened. What do you get? 2 seconds of burning every 10 seconds (This is a grandmaster trait? WOW … pbbttthhhhhtt) with a reduced terror damage (whoopie). Now add that in with expected reductions in the necro’s fear abilities that will undoubtedly be nerfed, and viola, you get an insignficiant necro….. again.

You have not created a unique class in the necro. YOu have created a DOT mage with a limited shieling ability that is DS. I am bored with your concept and terrible application.

I still think they don’t have a single person at anet that gives a rat’s kitten about the necro and have SINCE DEVELOPMENT show lackluster interest. The necro looks as if it was patchworked together after nerfing anything unique or interesting. The only remenants of unique or interesting was in fear (which is going to get buttslammed) and DS, which already got slammed.

I don’t feel the devs look at constructive criticism unless it aligns completely with what they are thinking… thus throw out logic and just give them confirmatory support of their ideas and they will listen to your feedback, which at that point, does not represent feedback per se, but but rather confirmatory evidence that “they are right.” Constructive criticim, which has been lodged by the necro community since day -30, has been ignored and overlooked repeatedly. Even with solid evidence it takes months for the DEVs to aknowledge and effectively change. DS has been so plagued with bugs since development started (taking excessive damage from direct attacks, not scaling with Soul Reaping, not scaling with vitality, no way to heal health while in DS, Gluttony not effectively increasing lifeforce gain, etc. etc.,) that faith in DS has never been established. Now to top things off, we have a significant hit to our ONLY ability to block a huge damage spike both in PVP and in PVE, further hampering our usefulness in PVE situations, and making us more vulnerable to the ole steal, mug, cloak, backstab, heartseeker x4 leach kill. so boring.

(edited 2013-07-29 15:56:12 by Gryph.8237)

Constructive necromancer thoughts.

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Posted by: Myrmidian Eudoros.4671

Myrmidian Eudoros.4671

Phantaram – Good topic. Thanks for taking the initiative.

I have mained Necro since Betas, and played a lot of necro in tourneys before the 6/25 patch (and some after, but I get bored with facerolling pretty fast so I run Guard or Mesmer more often now).

Overall the survivability of Necro still isn’t very good, it is just hard to tell because anything that gets within 1200 of you is dead in about 7s even if you are just kiting for your life and spamming to try and self-peel. Clearly this means that damage is too high at present. The problem is not a single item, and attempting to balance by nerf-hammering one thing would be a poor decision. The multi-faceted problem requires a multi-faceted solution.

The contributors to the problem:
1) Terror
2) Dhuumfire
3) Shroud #5
4) Marks
I am not counting Epidemic, Spectral Wall or any other utilities as part of the problem, because a good Necro can run any utility set they want in the current meta and still be a killing machine.

Thoughts and solutions
1) Terror damage is not too high, especially after the reduction. The issue is that it is also a CC and you eat every other cast while under its effect. Classes that have access to instant cast cleanses can mitigate the condi burst of a necro much more effectively than classes that do not. If you doubt this, then run a Mesmer with Mender’s Purity and Mantra of Recovery (not saying it is a good thing to do necessarily, but if your reaction time is marginally good, then Necros will not be able to Fear chain you at all). If Fear functioned like Immobilize (which it should) and allowed casting of skills while under its effect, then Terror would cease to be problematic at all. Any multi-condi cleanse cast during the necro burst chains would mitigate the damage a great deal, because Fear and either Bleed or Burn (or both) are highly likely to get cleansed.

2) Dhuumfire, just like Incendiary Ammo doesn’t encourage skilled play. I think that Proc on crit traits are just bad in general. In the case of Necromancer, I think that a inflicting burns when removing a boon trait would be better suited. It would allow for opponents to avoid the burning with skilled play or prudent use of boons rather than spamming, and indirectly buff Axe and Focus which generally see little play in the current meta.

3) Shroud #5 – The Torment isn’t a major issue, as its damage is not over the top, but the ability to AoE immobilize then drop a ridiculous amount of AoE on a whole team is a capability that is both extremely difficult to prevent and often chained with an AoE Fear that enables the same. This can lead to a small positioning mistake (getting too close together for .75s) wiping a whole team in about 5s. Shorten the leash range on Shroud 5 just a little bit, and the Necro who has no mobility can be kited during its obvious animation eliminating the Immob.

4) Marks – The Area of Effect is not the problem (traited grenades actually hit more area). The instant hit effect is not the problem either (traps do the same thing and are generally more damaging). Marks make counter-play extremely difficult because the animations are all identical, and the area indicators do not display when targeted properly and are difficult to differentiate even when they do display. A good solution for this would be to display the ground rings during cast (.75s is plenty of time to react), and give the caster an over-head animation that clearly indicates which mark is being cast. This would allow for counter-play by sidestepping the cast, dodge rolling , blocking (if Greater Marks isn’t in use), blinding and for key skills like Reaper’s Mark it would give an opportunity to pop stability before it can hit.

These are all fairly minor tweaks. The total damage capacity doesn’t really even need to be reduced by much (other classes still output more raw damage in less time), but enabling more counter-play against necros who are very difficult at present to mitigate is the key.

Constructive necromancer thoughts.

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

Gryph.8237:
I have grown so tired of seeing how the devs make these changes to their favored classes (mesmers, guardians, thieves, eles) while ignoring classes like the necro.

You kidding me? the rest “buff” to Mesmer is the FIRST time in how long where Anet has released an update that doesn’t involve some sort of nerf. Mesmer is FAR from the Devs favored classes.

Constructive necromancer thoughts.

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Posted by: Atherakhia.4086

shimmerless.4560:
Caffynated.5713:
They may need to just go ahead and ban the PvE trolls. This is the sPvP forum and spamming about unrelated content is getting old.

i don’t agree with banning (bit harsh) but i must admit i’ve noticed how a lot of threads have been derailed into unrelated PvE stuff lately.

i think this board has a rep for being one that the devs pay particular attention to. it’s undeserved really, when you look at gw2 on the whole it’s obvious it’s overwhelmingly a PvE game and that’s where the lion’s share of money and development time goes towards.

the problem is ANet selectively enforces their posting policy. We see threads moved all the time from one forum or the next, often from the WvW forum to the class specific forums because they deal with a single class. The same should have happened with this thread. so instead, a thread talking strictly about the necromancer, which is discussing far reaching changes that will impact all 3 segments of this game, is only being discussed in a forum dedicated to the least popular/common playstyle.

This is why the conversation is all over the place… because it should have been in the Necromancer forum to begin with where people with far more experience with the class would see it.

Constructive necromancer thoughts.

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Posted by: Mad Queen Malafide.7512

shimmerless.4560:
i think this board has a rep for being one that the devs pay particular attention to. it’s undeserved really, when you look at gw2 on the whole it’s obvious it’s overwhelmingly a PvE game and that’s where the lion’s share of money and development time goes towards.

I think you’re right, and that also perfectly explains the angry reactions from the PVE community. They feel the largest part of the game is being neglected, and not getting enough attention (balance wise, not content wise). The pvp forum has way more feedback from the devs than the normal necromancer forum, and that says a lot. You’d think that the devs would be equally interested in all sides of the game, and not just this minor portion.

When a minor part of the game is used to balance everything else, naturally PVE and WvW necromancers get upset. They have every right to be.

A lot of necromancers have been struggling in PVE before the big DS nerf, and are even worse off after the change. That tends to rub people the wrong way, especially since this change was rushed in for the pax tourny.

“Madness is just another way to view reality”
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y)

Constructive necromancer thoughts.

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Posted by: jmatb.6307

jmatb.6307

I think this discussion and many other issues will be solved by splitting PvP and PvE/WvW from each other.

I know it’s a sacred cow that keeps being called “very unlikely” and “upsetting to new PvP players” but the reality is that decision, which would be like taking a nail out of your foot, would be a short term issue that becomes a long term solution.

PvE and WvW can be balanced together because the Guild and Crafting systems are in synergy. You can make consumables and benefit from PvE skills there.

PvP being separate would allow for their own Guild System, balancing, rewards, and cross-game type incentives that could bridge the gap without forcing each other’s problems down their throats.

Constructive necromancer thoughts.

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Posted by: Atherakhia.4086