Guild Wars 2

Silly but it would make for a better or at least more interesting master trait than whatever is in there right now.

I find the possibilities for this trait line stifled by bunching up traits like Coated Bullets, Juggernaut, Rifle Mod, Go for the Eyes in the master trait category where we are forced to just pick one of them. How about placing these in the adept category? This gives us the ability to pick Rifle Mod and Juggernaut together or Rifle Mod and Go for the Eyes together? Rifle Mod and Juggernaut combo would buff a power build built on Rifle and FT burst. Rifle Mod and Go for the Eyes combo might be useful in a SD burst build. Does this change make either of these builds OP? I don’t think so. But it makes them worth thinking about at least.

I want to start a discussion on how to improve the firearms trait line. I think this is widely considered to be a weak trait line compared to Alchemy and Explosives. Why is this? I’d like to see how we could improve it while keeping the suggestion for brand new traits at a minimum (least this thread become a wish list for new traits).

Current Firearm Trait Line
I Fireforged Trigger
II Sitting Duck
III Infused Precision
IV Rifled Barrel
V Precise Sights
VI Hair Trigger
VII Coated Bullet
VIII Juggernaut
IX Rifle Mod
X Go for the Eyes
XI Modified Ammunition
XII Napalm Specialist
XIII Bunker Down

It is my opinion that the Firearms line is weak because its master traits (trait VII, VIII, IX, X) seem more suited to be adept traits given that their effect is so specific and so singular while the effect of some adept traits (trait II, III, IV, V) are far more reaching since they are not tied to a single aspect of engineer play. These adept traits, however, are held back by internal cool downs that are understandable at the adept level but might be let go at the master level.

My proposal is to flip the positions of these adept traits with the master traits. Front load the four current master traits of the Firearm to the adept category and the trait line instantly becomes appealing.

As for the grandmaster traits, I think Napalm Specialist should be swapped with a buffed version of Deadly Mixture from the Alchemy trait line. Deadly Mixture buffs the damage of FT and EG but this would be redundant given the better damage buff from Modified Ammunition. Deadly Mixture should then be changed to buff the FT’s and EG’s condition damage instead.

Given these, the new trait line would look like this…

The New Firearm Trait Line
I Fireforged Trigger – as is
II Coated Bullet – moved to adept
III Juggernaut – moved to adept
IV Rifle Mod – moved to adept
V Go for the Eyes – moved to adept
VI Hair Trigger – as is
VII Sitting Duck – moved to master, buffed by removing internal cool down
VIII Infused Precision – moved to master, buffed by removing internal cool down
IX Rifled Barrel – moved to master
X Precise Sights – moved to master
XI Modified Ammunition – as is
XII Deadly Mixture – swapped with Napalm Specialist and changed to buff FT’s and EG’s condition damage instead
XIII Bunker Down – as is

What do you guys think? Would you invest in this trait line? Is this too much of a buff?

tl;dr The firearms trait line can be improved greatly by merely moving around the position of traits.

It’s a question of build. Do you have traits (sharpshooter) and sigils (earth) that will take advantage of the crit? If not, go with dire.

I forgot to mention…

The boon strip should in theory solve the FT’s retal problems.

Since the flame jet only hits three people, the boon strip shouldn’t be too OP. The flame blast resulting from the strip should still hit five people.

Right now, no. FT can’t come close to grenades. IMHO the kit needs to apply a second condition to make it at least comparable in a condition build. I’m thinking Torment would be the most appropriate but that would open a can of worms in terms of balancing so no. That’s why I think FT needs a trait that will make it better suited in a power build…

What do you guys think of an explosive grandmaster trait that will enable the flame jet to do boon strip every 5 or 10 seconds and, depending on how many conditions are stripped, an AOE flame blast would go off and damage opponents? [basically a cross between a necro’s Spinal Shivers and our Detonate Flame Blast]

EG is good. None of our other kits excel at targeting single opponents in long range. You would have to switch to our pistol to do that. But remember EG #1 not only applies bleed, it also applies weakness which makes it very useful against power builds. The other skills in the kit are also useful if the engi knows what they are doing granted they are more for utility than damage like the other kits. I wouldn’t say it offers nothing.

I would love HGH to effect EG but I think it will never happen. In the right hands, it would become too powerful.

For max damage, you need to trait 30/30/0/10/0. You need Grenadier and Modified Ammunition. Master Trait for Explosives would either Incendiary Powder or Explosive Powder depending on your preference. Forceful Explosives is a must if you are using bomb kit for adept trait if not shrapnel. Choices for Master and Adept traits in firearms are all kind of weak but I would say Infused Precision for swiftness on proc which you combo with Invigorating speed in the Alchemy line for perma vigor while in combat. Precise Sights would be the only other trait I would consider [this trait line sucks]. Maybe Sitting Duck if you have skills that would immobilize targets consistently [are you equipping the net turret? probably not].

This should work for either for Berserker or Rampager gear.
Just a word of warning — You will be glass so dodge.

Good luck.

Introduce the fight with either Pistol #3 or Tool Kit #5 and combo with TK #3. Land your confusion early. If you have incendiary powder traited, they should be burning within the first few seconds of the fight.

Setup your bombs so they land by immobilizing your opponent with either supply crate or bomb kit #5.

For grenade kit, it is better to use it close combat when it is nearly impossible to dodge. Don’t use it when they’re somewhere 600-1200 away from you. Get closer. I would advice changing sigil of earth for the sigil of geomancy (its cheap, don’t worry). It’s an AOE bleed around you (240 range) that procs every 9 seconds. Try to fight within the range that this sigil can attack.

Guardians and Warriors don’t just shrug conditions. Chances are you are hitting them when they have either aegis on or some sort of block or invulnerability. Watch them and don’t face roll your attacks. Make sure your attacks land.

At lower levels, bomb kit would be best since it only requires an investment of 10 traits in explosives to become good (trait #3).
Once you have twenty points to invest, put twenty in fire arms and get juggernaut. Equip the flamethrower and see how you like that.
Grenade Kit won’t be great until you reach level 60 when you can actually trait Grenadier so I’d skip it for now.
Elixir Gun and Tool Kit are great utility kits but they lack the AOE attacks that the other kits have so I don’t use them in PvE to do damage.

I would get condition based armor, trinkets, weapons, sigils, and runes. IMHO, power based builds for engis don’t become viable until you can trait for them and these are higher up in the trait line. If you’re going condi, try equiping Pistol/Pistol. I’d eventually advice you to move to Pistol/Shield but for leveling in PvE, P/P should be fine.

A few tips:
- Blind. Take advantage of your blinds. Most NPCs project their attack really well giving you time to either dodge or blind them. Pistol #3, BK #4, FT #5… cycle through this and you should be able to take on mobs with only minimal damage.
- Burn and Confusion. Engineers have two main sources of condition damage. That’s burning and then there’s confusion. Bomb Kit #2 and #3 if you land it and have good condition damage should kill most trash mobs by themselves. Pistol/Pistol also has confusion (#3) and burning (#4). You can use the glues in BK #5 and P/P #5 to immobilize and land your attacks more easily. No need to spam. Just land your conditions and watch them melt. Experiment on combos to chain these attacks. At higher levels when you have traited for grenades, you can add bleeding to this list.

MonMalthias.4763:

While Engineer as a profession has poor access to Stability, more passive procs and auras is not what it needs right now given how many there are already on Engineer:

• From critical hits (Incendiary Powder, Shrapnel, Sharpshooter, Infused Precision, Precise Sights, Go for the Eyes),
• From health thresholds (Reserve Mines, Exploit Weakness, Target the Weak, Low Health Response System, Automated Medical Response, Hidden Flask, Self Regulating Defenses, Protection Injection, Automated Response, Inertial Converter)
• From enemy triggers such as enemy hits and critical hits (Protective Shield, Stabilised Armour, Cloaking Device, Acidic Coating, Protection Injection)

As you can see, there are a lot. Trait passives are also rarely playstyle-altering. How would a Turret Engineer play any different if instead he had perma-Stability? I’m going to take a wild guess and say – not too much different, except he now laughs at CC. The same can also be said of things like Self Regulating Defenses. Engineers have exactly the same order of priorities and thoughts at 100% HP as they do at 25% HP – except now they get a brief invuln at 25%.

Turrets already have Passive traits – Metal Plating, Autotool Installation, Rifled Turret Barrels. The only 2 out of 5 “Active” Traits are Accelerant Packed Turrets and Deployable Turrets. Less than half. Adding a Stability aura won’t change how Turret Engineer plays aside from introducing new imbalance.6

While I agree that Engineers have a lot of access to passive proc, each one of these traits that you listed require investment in a specific trait line. I am in no way suggesting that we should get stability from turrets for free. I envision this to be a grandmaster trait next to elixir infused bombs in the Inventions trait line.

How would a Turret Engineer play any different if instead he had perma-Stability?
- In PvP, instead of placing his turret on some obscure corner to avoid damage, he would put it in the middle of the point and fight around it. His stability lasts only as long as the turret is alive and how long will that be? Far from being OP. It might not sway PvPers to change at all.
- In WvW, however, there would now at least be some incentive to equip turrets to defend chokes and the lord’s room. In big fights, they won’t last too long either but the few seconds of stability in the initial engagement is not anything to laugh at.
- In PvE, an engineer would plant his turret next to him as he throws grenades at a world boss from a safe distance. How glorious!

IMHO damage buffs won’t convince anyone to take a turret over a kit. There’s just too much utility that you give up. However, the promise of stability will convince a lot more people to equip turrets and invest in the Invention trait line. Most people would probably forgive the bugs about targeting and damage since turrets won’t be viewed as damage dealers anymore and instead as givers of stability.

Do you care to elaborate on what you mean about a rocket launcher? I believe we already launch rockets with the rocket turret.

I would like to see turrets give off a buff specifically stability which I think engineers need better access to. I don’t mind turrets being stationary (they’re turrets after all) but we need help to be able to stand around it to at least try and defend it (the thing is made of glass) without being tossed around by hammers or perma-feared everywhere..

Problem: In their current state, turrets are too fragile and they do not grant any other additional utility (except a single high cd overcharge skill) to justify choosing them over a kit

Suggestion: A grandmaster trait that would encourage the use of multiple turrets by (1) linking the hp of the turrets deployed, (2) reducing overcharging CD based on the number of turrets deployed, and finally (3) granting stability when two or more turrets are deployed

(1) e.g. A rocket turret by itself can take 7470 points of damage based on its hp. Given this trait, the damage that this rocket turret can take increases based on the hp of the addition turrets deployed. For instance, if a player deploys both a rocket and a rifle turret, both turrets can take 14940 [7470+7470] points of damage before being destroyed. But, since they are linked, if any one of these turrets receive 14940 points of damage the other turret will also be destroyed.
(2) A 10% reduction for every turret deployed
(3) Grant 5s Stability every 5s to engineer and allies within a predetermined radius around the turrets. [Engineers need a steady source of stability to be able to stand around the turrets to repair and defend it]
*healing turrets not included in this trait

What would happen as a result of this trait?
This would spawn a class of point defense turret based engineer who would take turrets on two of their three utility slots and take the tool kit for their third utility slot to heal their turrets. Since the turrets provide AOE stability, they would be valuable support for allies defending or taking points. Given the lack of damage output and cc [no grenade or bomb kits], an engineer should not be able to overpower multiple opponents to take a point by himself but he should be able to hold a point against multiple opponents with the help of properly placed turrets.

NevirSayDie.6235:

Ah, I didn’t see the guardian changes. Yes, I agree that it would have been much better for the elixir-infused bombs patch notes to read the same way:

“Increased scaling with healing power from 10% to 15%”

That would have made things much more simple.

If they said it this way though, everyone would just have laughed. I would have. Fifty percent sounds a lot better than five percent. I can’t help but feel like this was a calculated choice of words to make a negligible change sound much better than it really is. sigh

I’m liking it so far for pvp. Combined with Automated Medical Response and Self Regulating Defense, my engi is harder to kill than ever.

I didn’t know this was clarified beforehand. I’m just speaking from a point of view of someone who read the planned release notes and thought ANet wanted to aggressively promote build diversity so they slap bombs with a massive heal. .5 scaling would have been huge. God forbid engineers would be allowed to heal allies as good as guardians. I should have known it was too good to be true. Just disappointed. Oh well, it is what it is.

It could obviously have been worded better to avoid confusion. The fact that there is confusion means they did not word it properly so there’s blame to spread here.

off topic but does anyone know the exact number to how AED scales to healing power?

This is dumb. 50% increase sounds a lot better than just saying we will increase scaling from .1 to .15. I feel deceived.

Jeknar.6184:

herrard.1274:

Anyway, we need the break. It’s going to be a long week playing against DH again. We expect another monumental close match. Wish us luck (-=

Sorry but I’m on Darkhaven side…

lol that’s unfortunate but completely understandable

Well, I wish AR and ET luck in their match against GoM. May your loot bags be many and your wipes few. Cheers.

Jeknar.6184:

Dsybok.1405:

It clearly doesn’t matter to you.

Yup, it doesn’t… Chest thumping isn’t my thing. If I wanted to bother about ppt and all that crap, I would still be in Blackgate (which I left waaaaaaaay back in February).

Also, seeing that we are upsetting FC by taking their stuff, I’d call it a victory… Forum tears are delicious.

On a side-note, why don’t you start talking crap about how AR control all your borderland? Is ET the only thing that matter for you?

Very few tears are being shed. Most people stopped caring about the match up a few days ago when the lead became insurmountable. Hence, undefended bl last night and undefended bl right now.

Anyway, we need the break. It’s going to be a long week playing against DH again. We expect another monumental close match. Wish us luck (-=

I play in the evening Eastern time. That’s when I see APX and PPK. Although PPK is supposedly an Aussie guild so they must part of our day crew. I’ve spoken to a few of their players and that’s how I know they transferred.

Avatar of Belle.9623:

herrard.1274:

… This was such a nice, cordial thread only a few hours ago…

You mean it was such a nice, boring thread. This is way, way better. Forum warrioring is only fun when there are hurt feelings.

I like boring =-) Boring means ET is losing.

If ET were in the lead now, all your forum warriors would be out here mud slinging and chest thumping about ET’s superior skills and coordination… I remember ET making a ruckus only a few matches ago when you beat FC for the first time in ages.

Like I said, boring works out for me just fine.

Dsybok.1405:

FC were at the bottom of tier 8 for so long, I think we know enough about it to comment.

And yes, it does suck to lose all 3 of your fully upgraded keeps to idiots on a karma train who should be fighting for position and points, which is what WvW is supposed to be about. If you are happy to be a server that’s in the basement, then I guess its ok with me. We collectively at FC chose to try to get better and we did. We got no new players, we stepped up our play. Personally I am disappointed, I am used to seeing better out of ET.

This isn’t entirely true. We got a few transfers before the start of the season. APX and PPK to name the two that I know of.

… This was such a nice, cordial thread only a few hours ago…

Anyway, good luck to AR and ET. I’m excited to see who ends up on top. It’s really close right now. Just a 600 point difference atm.

bokunocarrie.7215:

To the FC and AR groups who are currently engaging in our threeway in ARBL – was it as good for you as it was for us?

Yes, the most fun we’ve had the entire match up. WZ thanks you.

clint.5681:

I’m a roamer

That you are, my friend. That you are. =-)

Now, roam back over to your match up thread. I hear hod has some great forum warriors you can battle.

Jesse.4631:

clint.5681:

Yeah i noticed last week how you get when you arent winning.

I’m surprised your in this forum :o usually sf won’t stray far from there zerg lol

the zerg was killed by hod
he hid underneath his shadow refuge and escaped
he’s the only survivor… maybe we should be nicer to him

clint.5681:

You guys werent really talking about anything anyway, this thread is so boring without me.

Boring is how we like it.

Match up threads where FC is in the lead are usually quiet because we aren’t forum warriors and don’t like to start needless things.

It’s different when other servers are in the lead. Too much chest thumping happens.

Ranger Hussy.9523:

yeah well we all know sf can’t count, to them anything bigger than 5 people and all our servers are zerging lol

could not have said it any better

lol

they must think hod is a tier 1 server haha

Tulki.1458:

The engineer changes sound pretty reasonable, but turrets are still lacking the recent +71% PvE health boost that every other minion in the game received. This makes them way too easy to kill… a single stray shot from veterans and higher is capable of blowing up all but the thumper turret. To compound this problem, turrets have the same massive hitboxes as every other structure in the game, and a lot of the time this causes AoE skills to hit them more than once.

At the very least, if turrets won’t get this health buff, can we at least increase the reduction of cd for picking up turrets? Reward us for placing the turrets well and taking care of it. I understand that this would not include the healing turret but for every other turret this is a must to make any kind of turret build viable in anything else but pvp.

The buffs to the turret traits are great but please go all the way with your excellent changes by reducing cd of their pick up. Thank you.

For Engineers, the potential diversity of Static Discharge builds are still handicapped by the trait’s poor targeting system. We are forced to pick utilities with tool belt skills that already aim at targets by default. I don’t know if this is by design but changing this would greatly diversify utility skill choice for these builds. I know this isn’t included in the list of intended changes for engineers but since the goal of the patch is to increase diversity I thought I’d bring it up. Thanks.

To address momentum, why not simply shift the weight of the dominating server’s accumulating score away from ppt points towards non-ppt points?

The definition of what a “dominating server” needs to be determined but it no doubt has something to do with disproportionate coverage and map control and probably a massive accumulated lead.

Taking and Holding Structures
After some threshold has been reached, stop rewarding ppt points to the dominating server for simply holding a structure unless they are required to defend it. At the same time, encourage the server who should own that structure to capture it by rewarding them a sizeable chunk non-ppt points for the objective.

Pinning
So the dominating server has completely over ran an opposing server’s borderland… Why reward them for holding structures? Nerf the points they get from structures and make them look for people to fight. Force the server to pin for points. If there are no people, then they don’t get points. (No reward for disproportionate coverage, no massive accumulation of points that become insurmountable because it goes unchecked)

Please Make Outmanned Buff Mean Something
Encourage the dominating to spread out by further nerfing the points they get for outmanning an opponent. Why reward the dominating server for zerging an empty borderland? Minimize the point they can get from this.

At the present time, coverage is king because WvW is all about holding structures. If we can make it less about holding structures we might be able to make WvW less about coverage.

I think this week will be all about whether Kaineng drops enough to make it to Bronze league and we can all wave sayonara to NSP. Wouldn’t that be nice? Now, if only GOM would throw the match so NSP can get what’s coming to them in Silver League. I guess one can dream. I don’t know about you guys but I feel burnt out from last week’s match up. DH/SF/FC was a great match but I’m exhausted.

Madora.9340:

Glad FC and DH are working together to beat the stuffing out of us last minute. Says a whole lot about you guys*. After we lost the majority of our group at about 3 pm, and you guys* got a sudden surge* of people*, I guess congratulations* are in order in here. Bravo*. Sure showed us.

Feel free to sub in different words where the stars are.

Everyone in this match up already knows that this is one of SF’s weakest time slots. Let’s not kid ourselves. SF usually picks it up again a few hours from now and everything evens out. But don’t cry double team like a sore loser when you had a 10k lead yesterday and somehow manage to lose it. If FC wins this match up, there is no one to blame but yourselves.

ptitminou.6489:

herrard.1274:

insanemaniac.2456:

ptitminou.6489:

That’s basically my point, you should be 50k ahead of us by now, at the very least. You have greater numbers way more often than us, much much much better comms, slightly less organization in your groups. And correct me if I’m wrong, but you also don’t have other guilds worried that one guild is trying to run the whole server. Here we have guilds like StaR looking to xfer off because of the lack of trust and comms.

i wondered how long they would hang around.

super organized, hardcore, gvg type guilds never really enjoy the lower tiers and just sort of dissolve or go away. and thats what they seem like from playing against them a bit.

its a shame really.

Tell them to come to FC so we can beat HoD and NSP and win Bronze League together lol =-)

I will not promote people giving ANet money because of ANet’s own design failures. I would rather quit the game. I am kidding entirely when I tell people to xfer on SF btw, I am not that mean.

No need to give ANet money. We are a Medium pop server during the early early mornings and so it is free to transfer. yay

insanemaniac.2456:

ptitminou.6489:

That’s basically my point, you should be 50k ahead of us by now, at the very least. You have greater numbers way more often than us, much much much better comms, slightly less organization in your groups. And correct me if I’m wrong, but you also don’t have other guilds worried that one guild is trying to run the whole server. Here we have guilds like StaR looking to xfer off because of the lack of trust and comms.

i wondered how long they would hang around.

super organized, hardcore, gvg type guilds never really enjoy the lower tiers and just sort of dissolve or go away. and thats what they seem like from playing against them a bit.

its a shame really.

Tell them to come to FC so we can beat HoD and NSP and win Bronze League together lol =-)

ptitminou.6489:

Drastic.8920:

ptitminou.6489:

Well to be honest we tried to blob in EBG last night with CoSA and everyone realized it was a kittenty tactic. 20 players isnt a blob and stacking is not blobbing. You may have your terms confused.

But the truth is: DH, SF and FC should just merge into one server, we are awaiting your transfer.

You’re making the assumption that I meant 20 players as a blob and that the max amount of players SF has attempting an objective is 20 players. We both know that SF uses and has used more than 20 players to attempt an objective (not saying always but that it occurs just like it occurs in FC and every other server).

If you think that FC only uses blobs to take objectives, then you are poorly mistaken. There’s much more communication and coordination involved. The fact that we are within 500 points should prove that to you.

That’s basically my point, you should be 50k ahead of us by now, at the very least. You have greater numbers way more often than us, much much much better comms, slightly less organization in your groups. And correct me if I’m wrong, but you also don’t have other guilds worried that one guild is trying to run the whole server. Here we have guilds like StaR looking to xfer off because of the lack of trust and comms.

If you are suggesting the FC is bigger than SF, you need to get yourself checked. Just because SF is shell shocked the middle bro isn’t letting big bro roll us anymore doesn’t mean we have more than you. The match is even for a reason. It’s called coverage. WvW is all about coverages and momentum. You had momentum Wednesday and took a 10k lead. We had the momentum last night and wiped the lead. Now we are racing to the finish.

May the best server.

Leave the noobs to make the excuses. I’ll see you in the battlefield.