Showing Posts For korioaurel.3041:
Zephyrs boon is to get perma fury uptime (with rune of the pack) it’s very important for fresh air to have a lot of crit chance. It also give us perma swiftness which is important too. Ferocious winds will “only” gives 10% crit damage which is less important (for me ) than perma fury and switft
I also think we need to stop thinking as supports, we are too squishy to cover anyone. When i’m trying some new builds I focus on my own survivability and on damage.
I think this a flawed line of reasoning, as the justification of eles being so weak and ineffective on their owns is that they have such powerful capabilities to support. Let’s be honest, any selfish ele build is inherently worse than another class unless it focuses primarily on being a heal/cleanse/boon bot.
Roaming dps – even with dagger, you lack map mobility compared to thief/rev/mesmer. Your burst is a much longer CD, your defenses are far inferior, and you are hardcountered by other roaming dps (esp. thief/rev) to a pathetic degree. This is honestly not a viable role for ele.
Bunker – You have no true hard mitigation, and poor access to stab for stomps/resses. Also, no effective res utilities to make up for that.
Bruiser – if you try to build as a bruiser, you become a really bad version of scrapper/druid. You have less mobility, way less damage, you take way more damage, and you should lose the 1v1 matchup with both due to their superior damage/survival balance. While the game doesn’t revolve around 1v1’s, being a bruiser DOES, as being able to 1v1 effectively is one of the primary roles of a bruiser.
Support – Ele can probably cleanse the most conditions per 10s of any class. With healing auras, ele can provide lots of team heals to keep a team-mate healthy, while having a couple good CC skills to help a dps player lock someone down. Also, all of the self-survival traits ele takes are naturally AoE mostly, allowing you to share those powerful survival tools with team-mates. It is debatable if this is even a worth-while role or if other classes like guard or druid won’t just end up usurping eles here too, but at least you can be effective.
Next meta ele build is probably going to be clerical with shouts… Of course it’s easier for us to go full healtard. But if you consider ele as the biggest damage dealer in the game (yes it is) and just try a pala air/water/tempest fresh air build with SF you will see the big damages. You can contest almost everything in 1v1 (except revenant) and you have the biggest dps in teamfights. Air overload deals so much damage with basically no cooldowns and necro can’t even beat you since you can kite them. Of course, this build require lot of skills, it’s harder to play than revenant or scrapper for example but it works. In about 80% of my games i’m the first damage dealer.
Here’s the build with marau amu (pala isn’t avaible on gw2 builder): http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJArdn0XCdOgFOAOOA8RglGAz9y2ZHtEHhawPQoAEA+gA-TJBFABiXGAgTAQN7PQwDAAA
This build also work in wvw, it’s even stronger i only lost duels vs revenants.
Here’s what i’m running in wvw: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJArdn0XCdOgFOAOOA8RglGAz9y2ZHtEHhawPQoAEA+gA-T1BFABUq+DAnAAkU+dlSQCeAAsv/g66BIEQ5JA-w
It’s more tanky but in air with fury you got 84% crit chance which is enough.
I’ve got more than 3k hours and 1k5 pvp games on ele, i know that most people only see eles as supportive bunker but if you take the time and focus on your own skill i’m pretty sure anyone can do well as a dps fresh air ele.
I did games with the next meta ele build and it was awful, since I was only a heal bot I had to trust my team to do the damage. They weren’t good enough and I felt useless. I knew that I could carry the game with my damage build.
I played with pala amu a classic fresh air tempest. When the enemy team got no thief and tons of condi classes i swap to marau amu for more burst. For the runes i go pack to get perma fury with the zphyr boons trait and the rune proc.
To be honnest in more than 80% of my games i’m the top damage dealt player, air overloads deal tons of damages in teamfights.
The big issues i find for this build are:
Thieves: because they can dodge our fire burst with scepter. Stealth prevent them from getting hit by us and we can’t answer to their backstab.
Necros: especially that perma chill spam. Chill was already the nightmare of every ele but now it’s just “OMFG”. Like seriously anet…
I also try some dagger build but in my opinion it’s too hard to play melee ele in this meta. Any decent reaper will insta lock you down with chill.
I also think we need to stop thinking as supports, we are too squishy to cover anyone. When i’m trying some new builds I focus on my own survivability and on damage.
Finally, we need to adapt our amu/runes to the enemy compositon. Tougness is useless against condi classes but we need it against thieves otherwise it’s impossible. Also rune of the scrapper, rune of the pack, … are all good on ele depending on the situation.
I play ele since the beta, got 1k5 pvp games with it, I manage to go all the way up to legendary with it. I still don’t understand why anet decided to remove cele since we were not really in a good spot (0 tempest in the top esl teams). For me, the only way to be viable as an ele is to outplay our opponents.
Only good eles players will remain <3
Without cele amu main hand dagger won’t be playable in higher division (they don’t plan to change it). They also didn’t speak about WH which is probably our worst wapon.
Staff won’t be a solution since it’s motsly a support/CC wapon. So we’ve got scepter and focus, let’s hope those two will get nice buff or total REWORK of some useless skills.
If they don’t buff it enough ele will go back to trash as it was before cele. I’m currently trying some maraudeur fresh air tempest build, it’s nice but damages are so low compare to other classes. Air overload is very powerfull but we are so weak while overloading, any good thief can just burst us. I also can’t deal with daredevil and shatter mesmer cause they got more damage and survivability than me. Try to land dragon tooth or phoenix on a daredevil, if he’s good it’s nearly impossible without using blink.
Also, if anybody from anet read this: Please give us at least one nice elite skill… At the moment, they are all useless compare to other elite (reve, mesmer, DH, engi, …). A good offensive elite could do well with a fresh-air build.
I still don’t understand why anet is removing amu…
Now taking a look at Tempest, the sole reason it may be considered viable is Fresh Air.
I don’t agree with this, in pvp ofc. If you watch last monthly finals you will see in each team a tempest running earth/water/tempest. In fact the combo fresh air + air overload is weak because it’s not instant burst and you can get interupt all the time. Air trait line is weaker than earth and it’s sad.
I think anet decided to add team healing mecanics (tempest, druid and also revenant with ventari even if it’s not worth for the moment) because they also increase the damage output of some classes. None of the pre-HOT builds has the same damage than DH and reaper. We have now, bigger teamfights with more damage/condi/CC and if you remove support build (tempest and druid atm) fights will only last a few seconds.
To be honnest I really enjoy playing the heal/prot bot in team. The main issue I have with tempest are about damages, I tried tons of builds to have some decent damages with all weapons but I didn’t find anything. And it’s frustrating because if you compare tempest to druid you will find that druid can win almost every 1v1 but tempest can’t. We can sustain and never die in 1v1 vs burst class (DH for example) but against a reaper it’s just impossibe to stay on node and keep it and of course you will never kill anyone in 1v1 with a support tempest.
Tempest lacks of damage and solo plays, you need to stay with your team to be very strong.
Of couse we still have the oldschool cele DD but what about scepter? what about burst? What about a viable condi build? Anet gives new mecanics to everyclass, new gameplay, more options but for us it’s still celestial and sustain and it’s event worst than before. I tried my SF fresh air build and it was really painfull. I litteraly dealt no damage, couldn’t win any 1v1 get chase forever by reapers (chill forever) and it was just frustrating.
I also hope for a rework of tempest like instant cast overload (no more channeling) less support but more damage options and of course a scepter rework (a real one this time).
I think people will come and QQ on spvp forum about how strong tempest is, because it is in term of healing (2k5 aoe heal for every aura) and if anet nerf it I hope we will get something nice in exchange.
Thanks guys for your replies, hopefully someone in Anet will read this and give us an answer.
I agree, lucid singularity should give reistance while overloading, we don’t have that much condi cleanse while playing tempest (compare to oldschool cele DD).
I think we have too much aoe heal (elemental bastion and invigorating torrents heals for 2k4 on each auras).
Hey all,
After playing a lot of tempest in pvp these days I want to post on this forum several changes that could make tempest funnier to play. I won’t talk about the warhorn only traits and overloads.
First of all traits changes:
- Speedy conduit: it’s more a bug, it says 8 sec of swiftness but only gives 4 (the time of the overload). It’s the same for hardy conduit with boon duration.
- Hardy conduit: should be 4 seconds of protection instead of 3.
- Harmonious conduit: This trait should pusle one stack of 1 sec of stability every second because only one stability for 4 seconds is not enough in big teamfights and we lose so much if we get canceled.
- Lucid singularity: should give superspeed and a sustain mecanic because this trait is not worth compared to elemental bastion especially if you run with earth trait line.
- Tempestuous aria: should reduce shouts cooldowns by 20%
Now let’s talk about overload mecanics:
- Fire overload: Should work with persisting flames since it’s a firefield (this is more about pve). The aoe seems bigger on norn and charr and smaller on asura, normalize the aoe range for each race. Also giving it some projectile protection would be nice since others skills like this (warrior axe 5 and thief ult for example) gives projectil reflection.
- Air overload: The static charge bonus you get for fully overloading should crit (actually it never crit).
Water and earth seems ok to me.
The most important thing, for me, would be to be able to swap attunement while overloading and to dodge in water (wa will pop water overload if we are in a bad situation but at the same time we won’t be able to dodge without canceling it).
A good combo would be, for example, swap to earth while overloading fire or air and put the invul with the focus or get the stone heart buff.
There are only buffs here but it will gives more options and make the tempest gameplay funnier.
The tempest itself is good in pvp if you want to play with auras and be more supportive. It’s very strong in 3v3/4v4 but weak in 1v1 (with a team support build ofc). I also like new runes (radiance, durability, surging), we have now more option than before.
For me, tempest is just an other support thing on ele. We already have staff and also DD which are pretty much support wapons. Overloads are just weak it’s like high risk but no reward skills. Traits are also weak, compare to other trait line. War horn is just slow and doing nothing good except boon share (probably nerf).
But the most important: I think the ele community wanted a burst elite spek. Adding something new to the ele gameplay. For the moment, in spvp, if you want to do damage you go fresh air. This build got lots of weaknesses and this is why it’s out of the meta but it’s very fun to play because it’s totally different of the others ele gameplay. Elementalist is a very strong class because of it mecanics but tempest doesn’t bring anything new. It’s just an other melee support build doing less damage than the cele DD we have now.
Here we can see how people doesn’t understand anything at ele.
The main problem last 4 months is the cele DD ele because it’s too strong, you can tank a lot get good healing good burst damage and also good condi condi damage.
With the last patch anet just reduce our might staking abilities and also the burn staking.
The vigor nerf is like nothing, we are still almost perma vigor.
To answer to people saying “all the identical vigor traits got a 10s icd so it’s normal that ele got 10s too”. Yes I agree but the problem is that this trait is a major one on ele and a minor one on other classes so maybe we should get something else from it.
So finally for all the troll saying “hahaha u deserve it, ele broken LOLOLOL” just listen: DD cele ele is still very strong but the ele community is asking for an other gameplay to our lovely elementalist. With this “patch” anet just say “Meh ok you want to play something else than DD but… sorry guys we don’t”. This scepter rework is just a big joke, flamestrike now deals 700 crit damage with the slowest animation ever, shatterstone is still useless cause even if you hit, it just do nothing. And for dragontooth I only see a nerf in wvw when it was uses to destroy AC.
Btw the blinding ashes nerf make me laugh. We stay like 3-4 sec in fire so we have one proc of blind and then we switch to our rotation and come back in fire like 12sec later so BA is up again.
The truth is Anet want us to play tempest, they know how bad is scepter with tempest and they want us to run D/Wh. So they nerf the off hand dagger and the fire trait line. They also buff aurashare. Next meta ele will probably be Tempest/water/arcana or earth with tons of aura and heal. We are going to be healbot. I’m sad about it i wanted fresh air to be good but they didn’t.
Here is what i think could make the tempest at least playable:
Overloads:
Give the oppotunity to swap attunement while overloading without canceling the overload.
Give it something to counter CC because right now when i’m overloading I just get insta rekt by CC.
A better idea, but anet won’t change it, is to rework overloads to make them work the same way than burst skills from warrior. You can get a heal wave that chill enemies and heal allies, a firestorm that bun/deal damage, things like that. Just swap overload to this and add some cool animations.
An other cool thing would be creating a 5th element like arcana, while using your 4 attunements skills you would load your power and releasing it gives you access to 5 new wapons skill for a short period of time.
I don’t really like overload, ele gameplay is suppose to be very dynamic, haters would say faceroll. But the overload mecanic breaks it. For me, overloads shouldn’t be channeling skills but just normal skills.
Traits:
Minors: Giving swiftness and prot after overloading is just useless. We are already perma swiftness and also we get so much prot from warhon and earth attunement. Swapping it to something like :
“after overloading you get a bonus depending on the overload
– fire: you get extra power and condi damage
– air: you get precision and ferocity
– earth: you get tougness and condition damage reduction
– water: you get heal per sec”
Latent stamania: nothing else to say than useless: we are already perma vigor from arcana. Since arcana is the best ele trait line every build are based on it.
Gale song: i’ll come to this later when speaking about shouts
Unstable conduit: This trait is weak if you aren’t running aura share. Running aura share means water so your build will be Water/arcana/tempest so your auras don’t have boons such as prot or swift/fury you get from air or earth. To be totally honnest, aurashare isn’t interesting, anet tried to buff it so many times but I don’t think this will be meta because it’s just boring and weak.
Tempestous aria: should add the -20% CD duration for shouts
Earthen proxy: This trait should be in earth not in tempest even if it scale with hardy conduit
Harmonious conduit: Since overloads are weak this trait is also weak
Imbued melodies: I don’t like it because since specialization patch we don’t have trait that change our wapons (aoe for staff, speed dagger or endu regen from scepter) so i don’t see why war horn should have his own trait. Also the aoe breakstun is weak because it’s hard to place in a teamfight and useless if you are stun too. Granting stab on some wh skills would be better.
lucid singularity: it’s the same than Harmonious conduit, overloads are to weak
Elemental bastion: YEAH some aura share stuff. I tried a full aura share build with all these traits and i felt like useless. Auras are weak compare to other mecanics.
Shouts:
First off all, WTF COOLDOWNS. Guardian aoe stab is 30 sec cd (24 if traited) warriors got 20sec cd on two shouts, only the aoe fear got a long cd.
Wash the pain away: nice heal, weaker than the signet but more supportive, 25sec cd is a bit too much.
feel the burn: low damage, 1 burn and fire aura. Nothing special, i don’t think it’s going to be use because we prefer running defensive utilities
Shok and aftershok: To be honnest this one is the best but 50sec CD is too much. Good damage and good criple/immo.
Eye of the storm: 45sec CD for a breakstun even if it’s aoe breakstun i don’t like it. While warriors got 40sec CD on a 10sec stab we get 45sec for a breakstun. The shout is weak.
Flash-Freeze: aoe chill nothing special here
Rebund: JOKE wait what is it real? Yes eles doesn’t have any good elite (fgs only good for mobi) but this one is even worst than tornado. I don’t see any use of this. Maybe it should change to a buff that reduce all CD.
Warhorn:
Fire: skills are ok, very supportive, the fire field is a little bit too slow
Water: the water field should be like the fire field from warrior torch, linked to the player.
Air: Both skills are to slow
Earth: Sand Squall is very good but i don’t understand dust storm.
Overall the cooldowns are too long compare to other offhand wapons.
To conclude this, I’ve been playing ele since the beta, I really like the class and the way you can deal hudge damages. But finally, after 3 years, the only very good ele build is cele (yes it’s broken and yes i want anet to nerf it). I was hoping for a different gameplay with the tempest, back few month ago i was waiting for sword and the name Tempest sounds like storm doing damage but instead of that we get an other support gameplay. As other class get new mecanics our overloads are just a joke. I also don’t like shouts, I think it’s low skillcap and if you want to play them then you have to go full defensive because you won’t have cantrips. Unless Anet rework it, to make it funnier i won’t play it, I will stick to my fresh air and probably reroll to something else.
P.S.: This is the point of view from a pvp/wvw roamer player. I’ve no clue about pve or wvw zerg but I don’t think it’s going to be played.
(edited by korioaurel.3041)