The Halloween Necro was killed.
Too sad to dream. That would be like outlawing jack o’ lanterns. You guys have fun.
Showing Posts For ldyAmalthea.5028:
I see the comparison you are trying to make at the end there and yes, I hear some other players making it too. Although, I don’t think comparing Tangled Depths (open world pve) to Raids is apt. No one really cared about Necros in open world much, it was always in instanced small group content that they got singled out (PVP, Dungeons). However, your implied point about not being meta in Raids anymore takes us back to the question of, should Anet balance for the player driven Meta, against it, or some other option? Was Anet nerfing ice bow 4 and fiery great sword in the dungeon era a good thing or a bad thing? Was nerfing all the charge moves against a wall a good thing or a bad thing? Should Anet adjust skill power around what the maximum potential players find a skill to have or around what power level Anet believes the skill should have? In other words, why not just leave Mark of Horror as is since some players found that what damage it added allowed it compete with other class dps?
I don’t think these questions have answers that are black and white. We’ve been arguing about these philosophical questions of balance since the dungeon era when Necro was highly unpopular and haven’t established anything more than players will continue to make their own rules about how the game should play, and the devs may or may not agree with those ideas.
I understand it is a poor comparison, because what can compare to raids? But if you really did try to consider it… the point I was trying to make was that the Reapers had to learn handle the new monsters of the new maps which were challenging with the way the skills were changed. It wasn’t easier, but it was manageable. Necro did not walk into the map and instantly die with no chance of surviving regardless of player skill. As for the icebow nerf to dungeons? Eles were not left off the roster because of it, so that isn’t a good comparison either. Necros are not playable in raids because unfortunately it was that one skill we got the majority of our dps from.
With Necro lacking a build that parallels any other class, whether it is META or not – they hold back the team. For example, I used to take my thief into raids. The dps did not really compare with ele (META DPS) especially for large hitbox but it was comparable enough that if the team wanted to bring me it was still doable. If you don’t believe me just go look for the comparison charts released post release.
There is no role now that Necro can be compared to. They can not condi, dps, or boon/heal. So, why have it available? Why have Necro available only to learn when you want to do the content they provide it’s not useable?
Before we worry about the philosophical standpoints we would need some concrete information to begin from or else we are just making wild assumptions, and ANET’s only explanation was “Necros are fairing well…”
These are the problems I have with this. Regardless of their reasoning though the fact remains, Necro COULD raid then “balance patch” and now they can not.
(edited by ldyAmalthea.5028)
I’m seeing a lot of rationalizing of the jaggie nerf, but everyone’s forgetting one huge fact. ArenaNet provided NO explanation for the nerf. In fact, they said necbros were in a good place content-wide and they were just buffing power builds a bit to make those builds viable. Then they nerfed jaggies to kitten. It’s fine to nerf jaggies to kitten, if they provided ANY amount of reason or logic for it. They instead provided reasoning for why it SHOULDN’T have been nerfed and did it anyways. It didn’t make power builds more viable, it made rerolling more viable.
No, we didn’t forget. It was commented on about how dismissive Anet has been with the Necro class. “Your fairing quite well” so…. smashes Necro in the leg with a sledgehammer and now your not! haha!
They are pulling some joker nonsense.
Some are saying it is because of new elite. That doesn’t make sense to me. Then change how skills work when the new elite comes out? But you are totally right… people can take up sides whether ANET did the right thing or not still it comes down to no one knows why and ANET hasn’t said anything other than “Necro has been fairing quite well…”
We lost consistent summoning of Jagged Horrors when Rise! was changed in beta to shambling horrors on a timer. Sound familiar? The difference then and now is that almost everyone praised the change as good, and sort of glossed over all of the reasons for the change. Lost to time, we are now in a position where people are basically clamoring for Rise! to be changed back. I see people on reddit basically asking for a skill that summons Jagged horrors consistently on a 45-60 second timer. It’s silly to me that there is no memory of balance changes. I still want necros to be strong but I have to agree with another commenter elsewhere that the devs are probably looking forward to the next expansion/elite spec to give Necros another play style at this point instead of trying to make Reaper or base necro on par with Ele or War in terms of damage.
You are not the first I have seen make the reference to rise.
I can not speak for everyone, but I certainly did not forget about Rise. I didn’t have a problem with that change. That was more of an “aww” moment, because it was fun, but not necessary to be viable.
The poor comparison makes me wonder if you or others who have made that statement (while asking “doesn’t anyone remember?”) has stopped to look at the data of what the recent balance patch has done to a necro’s dps in a raid setting.
Try to think about it this way… when they nerfed Rise? I could still go to Tangled Depths and other Hot locations and take part in the content there (the big content at the time.) Such is not the state of Necros after this balance patch.
Do you think people realize that? As a Necro you need to develop an internal timer for the death shroud skills otherwise you waste time and mess up your rotation to go into death shroud only to find your skills are not available (then shroud in general is on cool down.) That’s fine though, it is part of the challenge of the class. We may have “a second health bar” which runs through like water (I admit it can buy a few precious seconds in a pinch) but we lack utility too. It’s a great point you’ve made.
I’m curious… do you think ANET will even wander into our little corner of the forum? They have not treated Necros well. Even their comment of “necros have been fairing quite well” feels so anti-necro. “Necros have been fairing quite well” … so we need to fix that and take away the one real strength you have capitalized on to become a viable part of the game… it’s so dismissive like they never intended Necro to be anything worthwhile. I really have to wonder if anyone will see what is being discussed here whether or not they care to act on it. It’d be nice to at least be heard.
To be fair, the 4war1mes comp was mostly due to people not understanding how things work.
I’m not sure I agree with you there. The dungeons were never hard even before the power creep, just a matter of learning mechanics. It could be argued though that because the composition was so overpowered those who ran these parties didn’t need to learn the mechanics… stuff just died too quickly to be a threat. This is just like how necro had one super strong skill which allowed all necro parties (or 4 with a druid) to be done with all 3 t4 dailies in no time at all with minimal effort.
The only difference is when they finally addressed the issue, warrior gained a new more party friendly role of ps warrior. What role does necro have now in raids? other than as the joke.
I do agree with you that the jagged horrors are a symptom of the problem and some work needs to be done to the skills. I really like your idea in fact. Make the skills stronger if used strategically. That would promote learning the class and encourage players to become more skilled. Skilled players + supported class = awesome fun. Playing a mash 1 to win (or press elite, skill 4, exit elite) isn’t really playing at all.
The problem was when you got 4 necros together with a druid/healing tempest…and could maintain 10-12 jagged horrors per necro throughout an entire fractal.
So anet fixed it in typical anet fashion.
I agree this is not something to be promoted. It is no different from the earlier years of the game when dungeon runs were greatly overtaken by the 4 warriors 1 mes party composition. But the answer is not to make Necro a burden to the rest of the party either. This will only reinstate the exclusion Necro has faced for the greater half of this game’s life.
“It’s not overpowered”
So tell me then pls, why so many of players rage about fact that they slightly changed mechanic of the spell ? ….
I am laughing at so many of those who rage about this how 1 “nerf” “destroyed” reaper/necro …. all of them acting like if Anet nerfed every single ability ….
Maybe it was overpowered, (although it was not a “slight change” though that is a different argument) but that is why I do not ask for them to be reinstated. Necro is a class that ANET provided to us. Raids are meant to be competitive and difficult because they are the end game, but we can not use a class that they provide to us for play? The class has needed some tender loving care since the game came out. Despite my statement earlier about healer Necros? I am sure I am not alone that if Necro was a comparable healer to ranger we would re-gear to play healer. But ANET needs to make Necro comparative to SOME form of game play or else why provide the option? The flavor of a class is pointless if it is not played.
Necro does not need to be the best at condi, power, heal, buff… but it should be comparable to another usable class. Then for example, a condi druid OR a necro could fill a condi slot in the party (each with their own benefits such as epi vs. utility spirits to free up druid healer utilities) which provides variety in the game play. That would make it competitive. If you are not playing your role well, then you would be replaced with a different necro or druid. There is nothing competitive about… go reroll nub, your class is useless.
Every class has something special they are known for (RIP Rev, I feel your pain too.) Necro has been synonymous with noob since day one in PVE. For the first couple of years every party had the same mantra “no necro.” Did I want to be the underdog and all the hassle that goes with it? No, I wanted to play the class that made me decide to play this game in the first place. Necro had amazing flavor… at least on the website.
This was fine back before FOTM and raids when we only had dungeons and open world. It is inexcusable for any class not to be viable in end game (raids.) This is the first mmo I have played where the company has classes that do not have at least one slot open to them in a party larger than five. It has left me with the impression that ANET wanted to have something for everyone without really following this idea through. Why not just have four classes that work instead of including ones that do not? It seems like a major design flaw that classes are available that just aren’t good enough for the content provided regardless of player skill.
Mes got their buffs nerfed? There was immediate talk of bringing two mes instead. I do not know if this would work in raid, but it offers insight into how the important classes are viewed.
I don’t care if we have jagged horrors, but ANET please pick a gimmick for necromancer as other classes have theirs. Condi damage? We are necromancers… we should be the best at cursing others. No? Fine. Minions then? We are the only one who has this ability. Make our damage rely heavily on our minions. No? Okay… make us vicious sadists who are just delusional and THINK we have powerful magic. No power build? Okay… HEALS?! Think about that… Necro heals??? Really? Do we have to go there?
Give all classes the ability to play the end game content or be honest and remove the classes that are not supported, but don’t perpetuate the lie that you have as much variety as you pretend to do.
I really hope this isn’t the case, that due to whatever oversight my husband and I will be missing out on the fun.
As instructed I submitted a ticket today and will wait to hear something back… hopefully I will hear something back…
I am uncertain if this is the correct place to post this but I would like some assistance.
All of the players that I know have received one of these boxes. These players have completed the event, received the chest at the end, and still received one of these items through game.
My husband and I have not received this mailed item. Can this be corrected please?