Guild Wars 2

women, for kitten’s sake. we are not “females.” we are women.

and no, it’s really not just women arguing amongst ourselves. i respect the other women who would feel empowered by getting their characters into whatever makes them feel like a bamf, and they shouldn’t be shamed for wanting this.

unfortunately the issue here is a) complicated by this catering to the male gaze, and b) the fact there are women expressing that they aren’t comfortable with adding more/similarly revealing outfits.

Jemmi.6058:

Both men and women can be sexy, but what is sexy for each is different. This is based on the shape of bodies and what are attractive traits. For example, large muscles on men are often considered quite attractive, but on girls it’s considered beefy and less attractive. Big breasts on girls are attractive, but on men it’s not. See where I am going?

stop stop stop if it wasn’t obvious before, it’s pretty obvious now that you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about. this opinion is the product of the sexism inherent to our society. you are making reaching assumptions about beauty based only on mainstream preconceptions that are designed specifically to make people conform to those preconceptions. this does not make them correct or universally applicable to everyone.

That is why the armor should not be the exact same for both, but the quality, type and amount of choices should be present. Sorry if I was not clear, but I meant that if each had 3 choices and 1 was sexy (for that gender, maybe pants and topless for man and skirt + shirt for girl – very different but equal imo), 1 was medium with some skin showing and 1 was conservative, that would not be sexist. Even though each gender are wearing different things (i.e. you cannot get a topless female and you cannot get a man with a skirt).

nothing wrong with a man in a skirt, and the only reason you’re using that example is because feminine traits are not socially acceptable on men who must always conform to the Being a Manly Man regime or face ridicule by their peers because feminine traits on men are bad. AKA another way sexism applies.

Part of sexism is definitely being forced to do something. For example: a woman doing laundry is not sexist, a woman forced to do laundry very well could be. I agree that being forced into a choice is only part of sexism and is not mutually exclusive to sexism, but having unfair choice attributed to one sex over the other is. This can go either way (in favour of men or women). For example, you could argue that it is sexist that there are very few sexy armor’s for male characters.

a woman forced to do laundry very well could be.

is. is sexist.
a woman choosing to do laundry is not sexist.
however a woman choosing to do laundry because it has been systematically emphasized by everyone she knows and everywhere she goes that she must do laundry because she is a woman and women do laundry is sexist.

…Um.. Obviously? What the…? You can be a man and still have someone be sexist towards you too. Go figure. That’s not the point. The point is that they saying they are a woman adds context to their point of view, as the discussion is around sexism.

no, you cannot be sexist against men. yes, you can be discriminatory. you cannot be sexist. many of the things you are thinking of/mentioning in regards to “being sexist against men” is in fact being sexist against feminine traits that men are shamed and looked down upon for attempting to adopt.

nenosronhir.3658:

any -ism is the systematic oppression of the given party. you’re assuming men and women are starting on equal ground here, that’s cute.

I suppose it depends on how you define equal ground. If by equal ground you mean they are identical clones of one and other, then no. If you mean they both have choice and neither gender is at a disadvantage, then yes, they are on equal ground. I agree with your definition on -ism. I do not agree that there is a systematic oppression of women in this game.

there is a systematic oppression of women in everything. it is not going to magically not apply in this game.

I agree about mainstream media, but it is also sexist to assume that mainstream media has no effect on men in our society as well. The point about the father matters, because the women are choosing to wear what they want, even though a man is telling them otherwise. Not sure why bringing it up implies skeeze or whatever you’re saying?

no, it does; your statement seemed to imply that fathers have the right/should be expected to dictate what their daughters wear in the first place, which should not be the case.

Anyway.. my main point is that I think there should be more choice for both genders, more skimpy and more conservative. I do not think these armors should look exactly alike, as that would be stupid. It could also be sexist. For example, if they designed it on a man and put it on a female, that’d be sexist. If they designed it on a female and put it on a man, it’d be sexist. The only way to keep it not sexist, and look Ok is to design them separately.

personally, i’d love the choice to have men running around in women’s armour.

Astral Projections.7320:

When I vote for skimpy armor, I’m not talking Aion skimpy but Guild Wars skimpy.
Examples:
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/File:Mesmer_Elite_Enchanter_armor_f.jpg
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/File:Ritualist_Asuran_armor_f.jpg

Really, we need a better word than skimpy. To many people see that word and think nearly naked or something.

you want to suggest that for town gear or alt gemshop skins or whatever that’s fine but how is that armour to go into battle with (the first one looks like a teddie? the second one apparently already has a similar incarnation in game somewhere, it’s been linked already) imo Anet has taken a few wonderful steps away from their previous game designs (if that’s any indication I never played the first GW) and need to keep forging ahead into something new, not going backwards.

Onshidesigns.1069:

Geotherma.2395:

Onshidesigns.1069:

Anet, there are many people with extremist points of view on how much skin should be visible in game. Some claim it undermines women to show more skin ingame. But few people have said they want the armor to look like Tera. These extremists forget that many women in the 60s and 70s fought hard to express themselves in the sexual revolution.

Instead of armor like Tera. How about armor that’s a little more skimpy but stylish.
Like these examples.
*first image: shows the type of form fitting armor this game is missing
*2nd image: Is skimpy without being like Tera
*3rd image: Or right, need more mini dresses/shirts

Why do people keep posting armor from Aion……..

Examples have to come from somewhere.

yeah, and aion’s a pretty bad example if you’re shooting for equality, with the exception of their heavy(?) armours (if what geotherma previously linked was a universal truth to their designs)

Onshidesigns.1069:

Who the kitten said anything about non-white? American has the more racial diversity than any other country.

You must hate America. But you don’t realize America or Obama does not call the shots. Central banking and Bilderberg already control everything.

yep u got me hatin amurrikka is for cool kids

Geotherma.2395:

If the armor gets any more skimpy they will be naked… The title of this thread just makes it sound straight sexist and teen-boy ish…

Why not just start a “serious” thread about how we would like new armor styles on characters outside of gem shop. Then an actual discussion could have been had.

that’s because the discussion is sexist, and with a different topic it would just be thinly veiled sexism instead of overt sexism. but they have said a few times that the title was ill conceived and they want armour on the level of what’s already in-game at greater variety.

they’re whining about equality, too, which doesn’t mean what they think it does. you know who used to do balanced design really well? FFXI. frilly and brilliantly ridiculous on either gender.

shenhua.2186:

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

For example:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Arah_armor_light_human_female_front.jpg

Boob-armor!

I love how you managed to pick an an armor that shows no skin, unless of course the armor changes the color of your skin. Perhaps it’s like one of those tattooed sleeves or whatever I’ve heard about.

Let’s say that hypothetically people are offended by people showing some semblance of skin in a video game due to whatever reasons. Can’t I just say that I’m offended that someone covers up their character so much that it makes it seem like they’re trying to protect the world from the greatest evil mankind has ever seen?

I’ve hardly ever seen the pro-skimpy crowd go for the removal of all garments that cover any skin whereas the other side seems to want the game to feature mummified corpses with atleast 4 layers of bandages underneath everything.

One side tries to add variety for all, the other wants to belittle and insult anyone even remotely interested in something other than 150% coverage.

Has it not occured to people that the reason why “LA” looks like a stripjoint is because there is a serious lack of variety in armors. If there were more DIFFERENT looking armors of both kinds maybe(but I doubt it since some people want to be offended) LA wouldn’t be the stripjoint people are referring to.

let’s be honest i’m belittling the reasons less than 150% coverage is wanted, not the desire of less than 150% coverage. honestly i’d be alright with less coverage if everything that entailed wasn’t hypersexualized or impractical (or more often than not, both).

also not intending to speak for Malafide here but they’ve continuously been arguing points about armour practicality, not only criticizing the armour-to-skin ratio, so your point there is moot.

http://l-clausewitz.livejournal.com/384382.html
http://madartlab.com/2011/12/14/fantasy-armor-and-lady-bits/

both relatively on topic and informative links about breastplates and women-in-armour in general, not sure if this was linked previously, but hey, relevant.

Onshidesigns.1069:

This post is being trolled by people with Very extremist points of view. I suspect some of them are from countries where their governments suppress their individual rights.

what is wrong with you do not even attempt to undermine the arguments going on here by implying non-white non-american voices don’t carry the same weight seriously go kitten yourself and don’t let the door hit you on the way out

ColdSlot.6928:

Isn’t it possible to have armor that actually looks protective but still shows a BIT of skin, WITHOUT being skimpy?

Like a compromise?

oops i missed this, i’m sorry; yes, absolutely. like i mentioned (very briefly), i think the designs currently in GW2 toe the line pretty well, but honestly i’d prefer more androgynous stuff (which doesn’t necessarily mean less skin, but less emphasis on boobs and butt).

I think someone mentioned being unable to find any open-back stuff for the sylvari and yesss yes yes yes that would be really cool (i am one of those people who think the flowers covering the sylvari genitals is really dumb because sylvari don’t reproduce like that but that there design is case in point example of the game not being created in a vacuum because it wouldn’t be acceptable for them to have visual genders and not be covered in some way, or to have an ambiguous gender and identify as either a man or a woman or both or neither because that would make other people uncomfortable oops sylvari rant sorry).

Jemmi.6058:

This game has 1 cheerleader skirt. Believe me, I have been looking. I am not a huge fan of it either (light armor beginner skirt). There are 0 skirts on Medium armor, several long (ugly imo) skirts on Light armor (I want above the knee) and 1 short-ish skirt on Heavy armor that has weird fish-net.

my bad, I guess the fact that every light-armoured woman being forced to start off with that skirt and is stuck with it for a while means there aren’t enough to go around

To all the women saying they are women and they approve of the addition are entitled to their opinion and are saying they are a woman for context. Given that the nature of the argument against this is sexism, it’s quite valid.

newsflash you can be a woman and still be sexist wow what a concept, hence why utilizing being a woman in this argument is damaging to the opinion of other women in this thread. the fact that you’re admitting they’re using their gender to legitimize their defense because being a man in this argument automatically makes it sexist is why it’s sexist.

On that note, people who say it is sexist, I just don’t even.. Why is it sexist to give people a choice in what they wear? It is only sexist if what they wear is forced on them. That is to say there is 1 set and that 1 set is skimpy, then yes, it’s sexist. Likewise, if there was 1 set and that 1 set was pants and a sweater, that is still sexist. This, naturally, assumes that men characters have more choice. If both are given equal amount of choice (not necessarily the same choices, but the same amount of choices), then that is not sexist. The reason why they do not have to be the same choices is because men and women are actually different. What looks good on one does not look good on the other. What men find attractive are generally not what women find attractive. Men’s body shape is different than women’s body shape.

any -ism is the systematic oppression of the given party. you’re assuming men and women are starting on equal ground here, that’s cute.

and by cute i mean wrong.

(not necessarily the same choices, but the same amount of choices)

no, if men were given three choices between pants, different pants and briefs, and women were given choices between skirt, short skirt, and shorter skirt, it is most definitely sexist.

your whole argument here is gross. if you’re arguing for equality then logically speaking there should either be no difference between what men and women can wear in this game (boring), or men should be able to wear what the women do and vice versa (which would be kittening awesome imo because kitten gender barriers honestly i’m so sorry this whole thing is very erasing of non-binary gender which is a whole other kettle of fish).

Taking into account real world? Girls, especially in the summer, show a lot more skin than most characters in this game. I show a lot of skin on my character, and it is definitely similar to what I see girls wearing during the summer months. They wear that by choice. No one forced them to wear it. I would even bet that their fathers are against them wearing it, but the girls want to wear it anyway.

neglecting the fact that real life women are held to absolutely ridiculous standards by mainstream media, yes, women are allowed and should be encouraged to wear what they feel comfortable wearing and it doesn’t hurt anyone else. (and i don’t give a kitten about their “father’s” opinions because their father’s opinions shouldn’t dictate what they can and cannot wear, why would you even bring this up, it’s skeezy and implies kittenshaming).

Your last paragraph is extremely hypocritical. You seem to think that everyone can have an opinion, but to everyone who has a different opinion than you, you look down on them and seem angry at them. You should not be surprised that me (and others) may be outraged by your thoughtless post.

+1 for more skimpy armor and +1 for less skimpy armor. Pro choice.

i don’t even know if i should validate this with a response that is exactly what I said?? i didn’t expect everyone to leap up and screech in righteous melodic approval of my every word and indicated that no one else should expect that from me.

(insert attempt at witty tally here)

You know, I was going to try and think of a way to respond to this with some semblance of civility, but seeing as a few people already have and the kind of response they’ve gotten, I’m not even going to bother. In summary:

qq cry more and go play one of the dozens of other games/mmos that have skimpy armour and GTFO GW2. More variety? Sure. More absurd, skimpy armour designs? No, thanks.

This game already has enough cheerleader skirts to go around; IMO the design team has done a fair job of toeing that line, and I want to see them dial it back and give the ladies some kitten armour that looks brilliant and isn’t sexualized like the rest of the women in gaming.

Speaking of, to the women wanting skimpier armour; that’s cool, that’s fine, but please stop using the “I’m a woman and I think this is a great idea and therefore all women probably think this is a great idea” argument because you are MARGINALIZING LEGITIMATE CONCERNS OF OTHER WOMEN WHO DO NOT FEEL THE SAME WAY.

Let me reiterate: you, as women, are allowed to like the idea of your characters in skimpy armour. You are not allowed to assume that, being a woman, this allows you to speak for other women on this board who do not.

To everyone claiming that this is a fantasy game and therefore real life does not apply: while yes, this setting and the characters, fashions etc therein may be fantastical and do not operate by a standard we can judge, THIS GAME AND THE DESIGN CHOICES IN IT ARE NOT MADE INSIDE A VACUUM.

Our society, and gamer culture in particular, is inherently misogynistic and so help me if someone tries to dispute that (no doubt someone will, but it is not my responsibility to educate you; go do your own research on the treatment of women in gamer culture).

So coming here and saying “needs moar skin” as though real world consequences to that request do not apply is bullroar. So express your opinion all you want, but don’t be surprised when someone is outraged at the idea of oversexualization being demanded in yet another corner of the Internet where it’s already prevalent but apparently not enough for dipkittens like you.

You don’t need to do the dungeon to continue your story; the dungeons are a bit of a branching storyline, running parallel to the personal story, not so much part of it.

I do suggest shouting in Lion’s Gate at high-traffic hours for your timezone (or, if you’re awake/staying up for another timezone’s active hours). I haven’t done AC yet, but there are usually a tonne of people standing in front of CM, using /map or /say to get groups together. Good luck!

Did this quest as an Elementalist at (IIRC) just under the required level. It was tough, sure, but completely doable. As a few people have mentioned, it’s just a matter of kiting/getting used to the abilities the sword gives off.

I think I mostly ignored the undead up to the lich; dealt with the adds in the graveyard while Caithe and Trahearne kept Mazdak occupied. I died maybe twice, took the time to revive Caithe (Trahearne was still alive) and beat Mazdak down. Overall I really loved the quest – I’d done the Priory mission prior to this one, when youget to spend the last few minutes with Riannoc, and this was the perfect way to wrap up that storyline, IMO.

Ojimaru.8970:

Reasons to play Sylvari:

1) Bioluminescence.

2) Their hair/eyebrows are leaves.

3) The total juxtaposition of a stereotype concept: an “sylvan/elvish” race that’s not quadgabilgillion years old and snooty, but one that’s young (25 years young!) and infinitely curious.

4) Bioluminescence.

5) Fear Not This Night is the default soundtrack of the Grove

6) Their dialogue (“The last straw was the turtle in the desert.” and “Will that Charr eat me? Is it vegetarian?”)

7) Bioluminescence.

Basically all of this. Except add in I had my heart set on a Necro Charr, and ended up making a Sylvari Elementalist for kicks.

Then I couldn’t stop playing him.

Garenthal.1480:

It would have been better if we got to fight his reanimated corpse, then I could at least have gotten the satisfaction of ending him myself. I found Forgal much more realistic as a mentor figure, though it seems the comedy act will always be more popular.

Tybalt wasn’t so much a mentor as a friend, though. He never really mentored—if anything, I sort of felt it was the other way around. Your character gives Tybalt focus, gives him purpose, gives him a chance to prove himself—but more than that, a reason to want to.

It was sort of jarring after the actual mentoring going on with Caithe and Trahearne in the Sylvari storyline, now that I think about it. But also interesting to have that sort of backwards responsibility thrust on your character, too.

ReinoudM.5931:

Tybalt was by far the best character. After that you get that broccoli stick Trahearne who should be inspirational and all that, but he just isnt. A flat character who cant replace any of the mentors. Tybalt was awesome.

PS: change the title of the thread

I think I might be a little more attached to Trahearne after interacting with him through the Sylvari opening storyline (not sure if he’s there for all Sylvari or not). The issue there, though, is that the story/Trahearne himself doesn’t seem to acknowledge that happened at all (aside from the first line, where he greets you with a line like “Valiant! It’s been too long.” Then Tybalt proceeds to introduce you two as though you don’t know eachother). :\

But yeah, Tybalt ;m; That was a suckerpunch to the feels, but I saw it coming. The hints/foreshadowing that gets dropped left and right with his insecurities and perceived shortcomings set off all my “this character is going to sacrifice himself” alarm bells. Still sucks, though. I also really, REALLY hope he doesn’t return as an undead—not sure if ANet is the type (or if the lore supports it).