People don’t hate Scarlet like Game of Thrones fans hate Joffrey.
They hate her the way Star Wars fans hate Jar Jar Binks.
It’s definitely plausible:
1) In Livia’s time, dual-professions were a thing, and N/Me was a popular combination for non-MM necromancers (although a large part of the reason for that is now explicitly a necromancer skill). Canonically, she may have been part mesmer all along.
2) The main reason we’re given for why one person doesn’t learn multiple schools of magic is, basically, that someone who’s spent a lot of time mastering one magic doesn’t want to start from scratch mastering another. Someone who’s achieved an indefinitely long lifespan may be quite happy to use some of it expanding their repertoire, especially if it would be more useful for the role they have chosen (such as mesmerism for a spymistress, particularly a spymistress who wants to conceal her true identity).
3) If we’re entertaining the possibility that Countess Anise is actually Livia… does the person that we remind her of have to be an NPC? Maybe the reason the “someone” remains nameless isn’t just a case of Livia avoiding dropping a name that will reveal her age, but also one where ArenaNet doesn’t actually have a canonical name for because it’s a reference to the GW1 PC, who incidentally may also have passed on an inheritance to human GW2 PCs.
we know Zhaitan can corrupt land (Orr)
Even the affected kings of Orr never confirm that it was Zhaitan and they should know best.
Do you really need to be told that which your own eyes can see? Just look at Orr. Does that seem natural to you?
Besides, as shown by the Sovereign Eye of Zhaitan, they think that removing corruption is poisoning and defiling the land. But if you must be told, we are indeed told such:
The Last King of Orr: Zhaitan can be defeated, but that will not save Orr. The land must be cleansed of this poison. Seek the source…
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/A_Light_in_the_Darkness
(Note: The line simply refers to killing an Elder Dragon doesn’t result in removing the dragon’s corruption – the source is the Artesian Waters, the central water that then flows elsewhere throughout Orr).
the quote from a light in the darkness is missing the rest:
The Last King of Orr: Zhaitan can be defeated, but that will not save Orr. The land must be cleansed of this poison. Seek the source…
<Character name>: Is Zhaitan the source, or is there some other poison that fouls Orr? Please, tell us!
The Last King of Orr: Seek the source…Cleanse Orr…Seek…the source…
and even king Reza doesn’t exactly say it’s Zhaitan in the source of Orr :
King Reza: Now, begin your final task: Cleanse this land. Restore what has been stolen. Confront Zhaitan’s power, and give Orr a new beginning.
It’s more a tasklist:
1. cleanse Orr
2. Restore what’s been stolen
3. confront Zhaitan
4. give a new beginning
I am not saying that Orr isn’t corrupted. I’m just saying it wasn’t Zhaitan.
It’s certainly possible that the sylvari were created by the Forgotten, possibly with some collaboration by the other races, as an additional soldier race alongside the dwarves (if they were also artificial, and between the dwarven creation legend and the effect of the Rite, I’m leaning in that direction). For whatever reason, though – maybe they were created afterwards, maybe they just didn’t mature in time – the sylvari didn’t take part in the last awakening.
Unless the sylvari actually DID exist during the last rising, under a different name: the Wardens of the Echovald Forest. The Wardens are, after all, a race of humanoid plant warriors that are mysteriously immune to corruptive abilities, and are led by an enigmatic tree spirit with immense magical power. Interestingly enough, Urgoz also speaks of foreseeing the future and seeing the potential destinies of individuals, just like a certain other tree spirit.
Regarding the sylvari being human-shaped because the tree was planted on human graves, while I know that was dev-confirmed, I can’t help but think it’s been retconned anyway. How do you explain Malyck? Was his tree, way off to the west outside of the region inhabited by humans, also conveniently planted on a human grave? Why would two separate Pale Trees come up with the EXACT same interpretation of what a human looks like, and choose that specific form for the body plan of their children? It just doesn’t make any sense.
Additional food for thought:
“Early pre-imperial era? What? That can’t…oh, I’m sorry. Did you need something?”
What are you working on?
“Same as everyone else: the dragons, of course. It’s of critical importance that we find their weaknesses or some clue to what’s happening.”
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Historian_Angelina
Interesting that she would make mention of the Canthan calendar dating system when researching Elder Dragons, isn’kitten
TLDR
WE THINK THE WHITE MANTLE ARE COMING BACK.
EDIT: More concise summary added
Summary:
*"Due to the events of the Living World and the geographical direction the story might be headed, it could be within the realm of possibility that on the way to an apparent greater goal, Mordremoth, we might have the opportunity to face the White Mantle in Maguuma, augmented by the vested interest of Delaqua Investigations into strange occurrences within the Krytan Ministry, which has been alluded to have connections to the White Mantle."*
Introduction
We bring forward a theory! A theory as to where this Living World Season is going to lead. Which is us fighting enemies of the past.
Long-time lurkers and first time posters, SkeletalHorses and I have been excitedly discussing the recent developments and we’ve come to notice some pretty interesting possible connections that we’d love to share with the community.
So before we start, we just want to make clear that this thread is dedicated to the healthy and excitable discussion of the direction the current Guild Wars 2 Storyline is headed.
You can skip ahead to the second post labeled The Theory to get to the meat.:
LINK TO REDDIT DISCUSSION THREAD: http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/202iex/speculations_regarding_the_next_living_world/
Our Experience
I want to open up this discussion by bringing forward our personal experience of how this first Living World Season has panned out for us. It’s the main reason the community is abuzz with theories and discussion really, the Living World.
Personally, I played GW1, participated in the first BWEs, and started playing during launch. I was as excited as anyone could be for Guild Wars 2. However, for some reason, my interest began to nod off after a year. I started to not play due to some computer issues, and Guild Wars 2 fell off my radar, only coming back occasionally but never fully invested. I was not invested in the Story and Storytelling.
Late last year, I logged in and was immediately taken aback. Kessex Hills was all messed up. Apparently, a giant toxic tower had just gone boom, there were Krait and Nightmare working together, and toxic plants were growing in the nearby regions. I was amazed.
I had checked in several times prior to that patch. I slightly experienced the Bazaar of the Four Winds, voted for a candidate for the Captain’s Council, and went to the Queen’s Jubilee and saw a Sylvari named Scarlet Briar crash the party. However, none of these patches were particularly ground breaking to me. I remember getting excited that the giant hole in Divinity’s Reach was fixed, but that was pretty much it.
The destruction at Kessex had piqued my interest though, and finding out that Scarlet, the Sylvari I saw at the Jubilee, was behind it was even more interesting. Who was this character? Why was she doing this? That voice sounds familiar…wait, she was voiced by Bubbles from the PowerPuff Girls!? It was time to get back into the game. Early January this year, I bought Guild Wars 2 for my girlfriend, SkeletalHorses, and she started really getting into the lore and ongoing story as well. She’s actually the one responsible for bringing this idea to light.
Living World Maturity
We’re of the opinion that the Living World, as a concept, still admittedly needs a lot of work. Execution, bugs, and general delivery of story had come off as lacking most of the time and we felt like we had no real stake in the story.
Nothing felt connected, there was no sense of importance, and worst of all upon lurking around the forums, apparently the villain had no substance or something to that effect. People didn’t like Living World. People didn’t like Scarlet Briar.
However, the Living World has been showing promise and great improvement these past few. Tying plot points together, introducing better boss mechanics, and trying to cull the zerg according to some people.
Most importantly however, it felt like it mattered now. It felt like we had a stake in the world. Fighting against the Marionette felt epic and showed us an interesting way for an entire map to at least have some sort of real mechanic to be familiar with and execute. The Living World has turned into a great tool that ANET has been using to both introduce story and test mechanics in order to improve future content and fights because of the temporary nature of some encounters.
This makes the Living World a powerful force that will improve Guild Wars 2 like nothing else. The schedule alone sounds daunting, 2 weeks for every patch. I personally see great things on the Horizon for Guild Wars 2. Things can only get better with this sort of forward thinking. It may be slow, but it’s hard not to see that it’s coming together wonderfully.
Which brings us to our Theory. The Living World has been pushing us forward in a direction, but in what direction are we headed?
(edited by Xenophanes.8360)
Yeah, Tequatl is the only one that seems to have to do absolutely nothing to do with it. I thought they’d use the tail Rox cut off somehow in the end. I mean you don’t mention a loaded dragon tail in the first act and then never smack Scarlet over the head with it, right? :P
That said, Scarlet overall is… kind of messy. It got a lot better towards the end, mainly because they mostly abandoned the wacky “Let’s cook Faren because why not!” thing she had going on when first introduced. That part just doesn’t fit with her backstory at all imo. She basically was the ambitious mad scientist archetype, who was driven to insanity by the voice in her head.
If you think about it, she does actually make a lot of sense as a villain for GW2 – if the game has a unifying theme, both story and design-wise, it was always different people/races coming together and fighting something they can’t individually. Scarlet is pretty much the antithesis of that – too arrogant to ever actually trust anybody, she tries to solve everything on her own, which ultimately leads to her downfall.
Even the seemingly random alliances make more sense in that light, they are basically a twisted mockery of the races of Tyria banding together. Not really reaching out to each other, but being manipulated by Scarlet to do her bidding.
So yeah, on a wide, thematic level, I think she actually works pretty well. The devil is in the detail, however, I agree that she could have been implemented way better. The whole Mystery angle just didn’t work for this kind of character imo. It would have been way better if she would have been introduced as Ceara, maybe even meet Braham and the gang before going crazy.
Why does she react so negatively to Kasmeer saying her real name in the final instance, anyway? How are Sylvari named? I suppose it would make some sense if it was the name the Pale Tree gave her.
Hi, everyone. Just wanted to pass on some comments from Angel herself:
Angel McCoy, Narrative DesignerHi, everybody!
I thought I’d drop in under a flag of sincerity and respond to some of the comments I’m seeing here. You all are so passionate about both Guild Wars and GW2 lore: it does my heart good. Thanks for being so completely awesome and for putting so much of yourselves into your discussions of the lore.
To better frame my comments and because many of you aren’t familiar with me: I’ve been working on GW2 for 5 years and 9 months. Prior to my employment, I was a GW player for several years. I did some freelance at that time for ArenaNet to help write a GW atlas that never actually got published, but it meant that I spent a lot of time learning the world. My point is that I love Tyria every bit as much as you do, and I’ve dedicated almost as much time as many of you have to it.
I completely understand the outrage some of you feel, thinking that I’ve retconned things in a vacuum. I’d like to give you some peace of mind. Prior to my sending it off, the interview you read received a thumbs up from Bobby Stein, Ree Soesbee, Jeff Grubb, and Scott McGough. I do not work in a bubble, and if I’m releasing that much lore, then I’m going to do my best to ensure I’m getting it right. And it definitely feels like I’m sticking my neck out in the effort.No pressure. Hehe.
When you are working in a world that is as huge as Tyria and that has had as many lore creators as Tyria has, it can be difficult to make all the pieces fit perfectly together. And yet, we do the best we can.
————-
So, let me explain where some of these lore decisions came from. They and many others are based on the following needs:
1. The fact that GW2 takes place 250 years in the future after GW.
2. The added complications that come with GW2 being non-human-centric. We’re no longer telling a human story, but a multiracial story, and that means only one of five races have the “gods” as part of their world construct. The lore needs to not only make sense for all races, but actually be relevant to them.
3. We want to evolve the lore, not rewrite it, but not just recycle what was already there either. We want to reveal new layers in the onion and expose secrets that even GW players didn’t know.
————-When you think of the history of Tyria from a non-human standpoint or, broader still, from a pan-racial standpoint, you begin to realize that not everything the people of Tyria believed 250 years ago is actually the whole truth. Just like I was taught in grade school (not quite 250 years ago—hehe) that Christopher Columbus discovered America and Thanksgiving was all about the Pilgrims having turkey dinner with the Native Americans. Just like that, the people of Tyria may have had only a partial or biased view of historic events. Some Tyrian historians might have gotten it wrong. Others might have recorded things in a manner that suited their agenda. Thus, when you quote a scholar from that era, it’s not unlike quoting pre-Socratic scholars in the real world who believed the Earth was flat. At some point, a Durmand Priory scholar or an asuran researcher questioned whether these historians were right or not. Sometimes they were; sometimes they weren’t. Sometimes, they only knew part of the story. We want to give you more of the story.
There is a stream of truth that runs through all previous GW lore, and that stream is what we hope to tap. We are not going to throw away huge bundles of GW lore. Events happened. What you may find evolving, however, are the explanations for why and what exactly did happen. We will NOT handle the lore with cavalier carelessness, I promise you. On the contrary, we spend a great deal of time studying old lore so we can base our expanded lore on it.
Now, let me give you a few confirmations on some of the things you’ve been saying:
> The Seers created the first Bloodstone to set some magic aside during the last rise of the Elder Dragons. They didn’t want to see it all consumed.
> Magic existed long before the first Bloodstone. It has always been a force in the Eternal Alchemy. It was not created by the humans’ gods, no matter what priest or priestess preaches thakittenwas. How you choose to roleplay your character’s beliefs is entirely up to you.![]()
> Humans (including Canthan humans) were brought to Tyria (from…no spoilers!). They are not native to Tyria and did not come with much magic of their own. From a human perspective and oral tradition (that can get warped over time), they say the gods were giving them magic, but the reality was that the dragons had gone back to sleep, and the gods felt it was safe to begin returning magic stored in the Bloodstone to Tyria. The gods (not only Abaddon) “unsealed” the Bloodstone and magic flowed back into the world. Humans and other sentient races of the time began using it.
> Over the course of hundreds of years, wars broke out. King Doric begged the gods to slow the flow of magic back into Tyria and the gods granted his wish by shattering the Bloodstone into pieces and limiting their use. Abaddon was annoyed by this.
For many of us players, it’s only been a couple years since Abaddon’s tantrum, but for Tyrians, it’s been much longer. The gods have been gone. Generations have lived and died. The world’s understanding and control of magic has grown and improved. The understanding of the cosmos (the Eternal Alchemy) has improved. And yet, there’s still so much the people of Tyria don’t know.![]()
250 years ago in our real world, it was 1763. It would be another 12 years before the American Revolution even started. Compare the scientific/medical knowledge and industrial level of the time with how it is today, and you’ll see just how much progress can be made in 250 years. Of course, Tyria hasn’t advanced as quickly as we have. They don’t have cars or Internet or Post-It™ notes. But, their cultures have evolved. They have a greater understanding of how the world works. And, they have better means of communication and travel across long distances. Thus, we can now write more intricate and bigger stories for them.
I wish I could answer each of your questions and concerns, but the reality is that I need to work on the next GW2 Living World release. We’re cruising at 200mph on these releases (to quote Stephen Clarke-Willson).I hope this explanation of our lore philosophy and where our thinking is will help you when you go back and review the pieces of your discussion. Thank you again for your passion! Know that we do pay attention, even if we can’t always take the time to respond to forum discussions like this.
The tengu were spread out in recent centuries. Nothing indicates they were so spread during the previous dragon rise. Their North house is likely referring to the three continental Tyria tribes, IMO, given that north of Tyria is the arctic seas (i.e., near the north pole). So unless there’s penguin styled tengu… Yeah.
This does recall to my mind one detail. We are told that in the distant past, the ancestors of tengu were able to fly. We don’t know how distant that was – normally changes that large could be expected to take millions of years – but it is interesting that somehow they know this. How? It could be something relatively boring like paleontology – which may well exist in the GW2 (maybe 1?) timeframe – but it does make me wonder if something a little more strange happened recently enough for traces of knowledge to survive to the present day.
If that happened after the dragon-rise, it might explain why there are tribes all over the place and they weren’t mentioned by the dwarves or jotun – they could have come from a different continent originally. It’s not a necessary explanation, though, since humans dispersed to multiple continents without the benefit of flight. There would also be the awkward question of why tengu were around to witness the last dragon-rise but waited until after it to travel further afield.
The tengu took the awakening of Zhaitan to be a sign to return “home”, to Tyria. The tengu originally come from Tyria? Cool. The awakening of Zhaitan is some sort of positive sign? Strange, but whatever.
Or a sign to pull together and reinforce. Possibly hide like the Seers did with Glint?
that the tengu have some knowledge of the Elder Dragons’ last rise, and are in possession of forgotten lore from those times. Why, or how? Who knows. We don’t know a lot about ancient tengu history, but if the tengu were counted among the elder races, you’d have thought someone would’ve mentioned it by now.
There was the uncounted race – their true identity unknown.
With Zhaitan gone, the tengu have few obstacles to moving to Orr, but that would require revamping the entire region and seriously affecting the structure of the personal story, which ANet clearly didn’t plan to do […] And from a lore point of view, the tengu have had over a year now, so why haven’t they upped and left the Dominion of Winds? Because this interpretation is probably wrong, that’s why.
Because time hasn’t moved on. It’s been a year in reality, but remember that all story-driven game live in this strange limbo. When a true expansion comes out that’s when time moves on. Possibly by a few years.
But what, exactly, does it mean?
Braham likes bacon, which makes him a true hero.
And the forming of the one star in no way indicates that it’s one star per Elder Dragon.
It stands to reason that the star would have certain properties to be aware of. A prophecy of any form would certainly be aware that Zhaitan would be the first to be fully let loose. Also keep in mind that a prophecies about a specific stars usually go into some detail about their appearance.
I don’t think the tengu would really go after land claimed by an Elder Dragon. Corruption and all. Some of their knowledge on the ED hint that they, well, know of the Elder Dragons – possibly even from the previous rise.
Considering that PT/Trahearne have cast that cleansing spell – you never know. If the Tengu playable race (or more NPCs) do happen at some point in the future we may learn more; but at this point in time the amount of content we have forces us into conjecture – and I think this is a stellar (haw haw) attempt at it.
(edited by zamalek.2154)
While I wouldn’t mind there being Elder Dragons elsewhere, so long as ANet could keep making them unique, there is one, very compelling reason for Tyria being “special”, and that is the account of how the last rise ended- the seers concentrated all the magic remaining in the world into the Bloodstone, sealing it away and starving the dragons into submission. That means that near the end of the last rise, all of the dragons’ remaining food could be found in only one place, which by all indications was on the continent of Tyria, and so any of them that knew or could figure it out would have no choice but to congregate on Tyria, and if they starved to hibernation while searching the continent for it, it would account for their presence their today.
To be clear, the only “agenda” any of us at Arenanet have is to tell engaging and compelling stories using our medium of interactive narrative. Part of achieving that goal is to provide genuine and believable characters who have depth and interesting interpersonal dynamics, including the portrayal of complex and compelling relationships.
We have put much effort into making sure that Marjory, Kasmeer, Rox, Braham and now Taimi each bring a unique perspective to the overall Living World narrative, and we love exploring the various relationships of all of these characters, as well as those already established via the player’s personal story. You will see those relationships continue to grow and change, as you would expect of friends and comrades you encounter in real life.
Specifically with Marjory and Kasmeer, we’re trying to present two characters that have a burgeoning friendship and interest in one another, because that’s something that happens in life. We don’t generally talk much about it on forums or the like, because as has been pointed out before, we much prefer to tell their story in game wherever possible. But we would also like to think that our portrayal of their feelings towards each other is more than simply something you can define by “ticking a box”.
Regarding trimming stories of all but the “relevant details”: I would say that many of us on the dev team would actually agree with the idea that how two characters relate to one another, regardless of whether that interaction has direct bearing on the direction of the main plot-line, can and should be considered relevant. Such breadth of character traits may advance a side-plot, or no plot at all and can be used to simply establish a personality type or a behavior which informs a character’s actions as they progress through the narrative.
Of course there is a limit: Learning whether or not Braham likes ham, for example (say that five times fast) is probably better left on the cutting room floor, but exploring whether Braham likes Rox, or Taimi, or Logan (does anyone else want to see a guardian duel between these two?), well we believe that there’s real emotion there. And if it advances a plot, great…if not, it’s still part of the landscape of those characters, and that’s really important to us, and something that I would say we are more than eager and willing to explore.
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