Guild Wars 2

Softspoken.2410:

For those experiencing this issue, check if you have five points in Shadow Arts. If you do, it’s probable that the adept trait there is stealthing you when you hit 25% health, you’re attacking and getting the revealed debuff, and then trying to stealth immediately afterwards with your own blinding powder because your health is low.

See also: Trait II in Trickery (Instinctual Response)

Last Refuge is a stupid trait that causes at least half my deaths in PvP because it fires while I’m in a cloak and dagger cast, leaving me with revealed and often no initiative (that’s called a free kill). A minor trait that causes random, uncontrolled behavior like that with no way to opt out is terrible.

But that’s not the cause of the problems I was talking about, which are:

1) Cloak and dagger occasionally fails for no reason whatsoever (this is taking into account the long list of well known, legitimate reasons for it to “fail”).
2) Stealth can be broken, followed by a revealed debuff, if you’re knocked down immediately after stealthing.

Does anyone know if it’s intended that knockdowns break stealth but still apply revealed? This is pretty consistent and I’m definitely not accidently attacking.

CaD does seem to fail mysteriously periodically, there’s no revealed debuff, no block, no blind, no invulnerability, no out of range, it just fails, no reason… haha dumb thief l2p. It’s pretty much the sole reason I traited Quick Recovery because without it missing 2 CaD’s in a row was a death sentence.

Keep/tower doors are tough.

Seriously though, regarding the death blossom build. This might make me sound like a D-bag. I’m sorry. But here it goes…

I’ve seen a lot more thieves trying to DB spam me over the last week. I forgot that was popular with the kids these days. But every time it happened, all I did was instinctually dodge away because, as we all know by now, that’s what you always do when somebody uses an (always powerful) rooted ability on you.

I cloak and dagger them after they’ve finished dancing (the ability queue can suck, but for brainless ability spammers it’s like a free initiative burn!), that removes 2 conditions for me, no more bleeds (…lol…), and proceed to annihilate them like I do anyone else. Even if they root me, those bleeds are gone in like 5 seconds (… lol…).

…

… what’s the deal guys? I’m not that l33t, and none of those things I did are exactly OP thief only abilities.

Condition removal=like 10x more not dead

Everyone’s thinking burst damage, but it’s going to be stealth, and it’s going to suck.

Probably not next patch, but soon.

Nevron.9413:

Aeden, during that last BG/DB/FA match, didn’t a significant handful of DB WvW guilds jump from DB to BG mid-match? Maybe it was a herculean effort to a degree, but if your primary opposition jumped to your server, allowing a surge in points based on the shift of opposition to your side of the fence, then that kinda paints a bit more of a picture.

If that’s true, they had low visibility. Afaik there weren’t any guilds added to the Blackgate war council and I saw no new guilds making things happen in the field ([Urge] and [RQ] made the big plays, though obviously most players contributed). At least when I was on, it was the same guilds/people the entire match. That rumor would have some modicum of credibility if the names of these guilds were mentioned, but, interestingly, they never were (in these forums or guildwars2guru).

Guilds may have left DB (not my server so I wouldn’t know). That would have helped BG nearly as much as getting new guilds.

Vorpal.4683:

How in the hell did Blackgate get paired with FA and TC? The population issues alone guarantee an uneven match.

For the uninformed, the last 3 weeks of Blackgate Wv3:

2 weeks ago. While we finally won the BG/DB/TA match up decidedly, most people were sure DB was going to win until half way through the match. ~ Wed Blackgate was -20k against DB, in one day we clawed to +15k and ended up winning by ~ +40k. The forums blew up with conspiracy theories and everyone seemed to agree that BG got a bunch of “EU guilds” who turned us around. That’s total malarkey. BG won because of herculean efforts by existing guilds and players. Period. We moved to T2.

Last week. We got roasted in SBI/IoJ/BG. It was as bad for us as it is for you guys this match. I don’t even remember the final score, it was like 200/80/35. The worst part was Blackgate just gave up after the weekend. I lost a lot of respect for Blackgate. After that match, SBI went to T1, IoJ stayed at T2 and we dropped to T3.

This week. This time we actually did get a bunch of new PvP guilds, including several ex-Titan Alliance guilds. The influx of new PvP guilds this match up is the dominating reason BG is doing so much better inT3 than it’s ELO score would indicate.

epics.9310:

dont have one on blackgate. some guy named choco sausage or whatever logs on and some of his urge buddies follow. about it.

all was lost

Lol. The BG commanders really disappeared this week. From what I understand:

- Choco hasn’t been on because of exams.
- Sauvage died irl.
- The Champ rerolled some FOTM profession but got disillusioned and started a family in Zynga’s hit game “The Ville.”

Shooopa.5632:

I see, it’s more a condition/then run setup. But wouldn’t it be easy for some players to remove the bleeds unless they’re contending with multiple foes?

Remember each bleed only last about 5 seconds. You’ll typically keep up about 7 stacks of bleeds from Sneak attack and Vital shot. So even if the player removes them, they’ll have a 7 stack back on them in like 5 seconds.

Condition removal is only significant for long duration conditions like poisons, burning or cripples.

dotHack.6359:

Most of BG have put up a good fight, but I’ve come across a a couple of these invuln siege sites so far, and only by BG guilds.

My first reaction to the second picture:

“Holy crap, how does this guy have such a good view distance!?”

Those BG defenders, especially the one farthest back, would remain forever invisible to me

First, I’m a thief, so I probably easy mode everything and have no real skill. But being that as it may, I can’t remember ever being killed by a thief in a stun lock in WvW or sPvP (I’ve only played maybe 70-100 games of sPvP though). In fact, I can’t remember ever being killed by a thief period (discounting cases of 1v2+, starting with < 50% health or some zerg AoE crap).

Many thieves have tried, but I literally chuckle inside whenever I hear those dinky little swipe sounds because it’s a guaranteed free PK even after their cute little dance gets me down to maybe 20%.

I have no stun breaker. I have +500 toughness and +675 vitality. I run P/D.

So…. what’s the deal? Am I so OP I out-OP my own class? Am I ripping a hole in the space time continuum?

If the complaints are about 1v2+’ing and a thief comes in and nukes them, I assure you any class can do that.

Exactly, it’s pretty clear that Arenanet carefully balanced Shadow Refuge to be exactly what it is.

If you want a vanish, blinding powder is the utility skill designed for that purpose.

It’s a condition build. Most of the damage from vital shot and sneak attack are from the bleeds. I’d recommend a lot of carrion gear (Condition, Power, Vitality) and any runes that provide +condition damage and +bleeding duration (I use 5/6 afflicted).

Stealth basics:

- The revealed debuff is only applied if you attack when stealthed.
- Stealth stacks duration (to a maximum of around 24 secs), if you use “Hide in the Shadows” and “Blinding Powder” at the same time (for example), you’ll see that the duration of your stealth condition has stacked.
- Smoke fields combo with blasts for AoE stealth.

Natural consequences:

- By not attacking in stealth, you can always avoid the 3 second revealed debuff.
- Look at your traits, utilities and weapon skills. You’ll figure out how to remain stealthed indefinitely as long as you never attack while stealthed.

Wait Stiv you’ve seen the duplicating player hack as well!? I hope you reported.

Yesterday in WvW some guy with a big sword came and like…. rushed really fast to me, way faster than normal running speed. And immediately after that he swung his blade at me hella fast like… hundreds of times and there was nothing I could do I was dead. Does anyone know what class can do that? Is it exploits?

I could have looked at my combat log and seen what the abilities were, but it’s hidden behind my chat window so I can’t read it…. virus?

Scorpion wire is totally unreliable.

If it didn’t go on cooldown after mysteriously failing it would passable but as it is now the ability is trash.

Most board games will teach you that “attacking” every other player at every opportunity is a losing strategy. In the Parker Brother’s game Risk, is not attacking the smaller faction (who you could probably destroy) to focus on a dominant faction “colluding?” Is it cheating or unfair?

No, it’s not. If you waste resources taking out the smaller player the dominant player is much more likely to annihilate you. You could reverse that around and say that, if instead you attacked the smaller faction, you’re being unfair to him since he’s no threat and you’re “helping” the dominant faction.

This is basic stuff guys.

If there are any conspiracy’s going on it’s probably between like 8 people in no name guild’s doing something lame like taking up queue slots or wasting supply.

Wild Bill/Slic, great video’s. They’re exactly what you advertise them to be: fun, humorous and skillful. Your responses to the drivel on youtube and the forums are spot on.

I’m enjoying Gw2 more because of what I learned in the Yippie Kye Yay series – thanks for making these.

Last night Blackgate’s leadership was a mess.

Keripo’s right, I think [URGE] and [RQ] are the only guilds with commanders, and are the only people that seem able to get zerg’s organized. The commanders are competent.

I agree with Kaine’s setiments on wishing there were more, and more inclusive, guilds on BG. I was on the BG community mumble over the weekend to get better comms and it was about 90% Urge & Rage Quit and full of Jr. high school level gay and kitten jokes. After a few hours I couldn’t stand it, which is saying a lot since I’m not exactly the most mature person in the world. It was easier to contribute by disconnecting from mumble and following the map’s blue Dorito.

One great thing about GW2 is the Heart of the Mists, which gives you free access to all the weapons, runes, sigils and named armor configurations, plus unlimited trait resets and all skills are unlocked.

Go to the hearts, “buy” (everything’s free) a set of Berserker’s and Soldier’s jewels, and you can try both side by side on a target golem.

For the conspiracy theorists: I was in the Dragonbrand borderland most of the weekend and both the large, organized Blackgate zerg as well as /map chat were universally objectives based, I don’t think anyone cared which side controlled whatever we were taking or defending.

I think I felt extra hate from the DB’s though.

@Sunny: No disrespect to the OP, but Wild Bill’s videos are awesome and the guy’s a vanguard of P/D PvP, enjoy:

…yeah there’s no way you’d convince me the points in DA are wasted.

Consider being more open minded, especially if you’ve only run this spec for a few hours.

I currently run 25/0/30/15/0. Our trait lines are very similar but the trait choices are almost entirely different. I think you’re overvaluing self-healing and undervaluing condition removal and a frequent, free AoE blind. Moving faster in stealth is amazing, you’re much more likely to get out of danger as well as get to your opponent when they move. I’d be surprised if most of your targets stay in one place after a CnD, especially since your not using Devourer venom (which you should consider since you traited quick venoms). You talk about your spec and 1v1, you should be 3v1’ing, no joke.

Wild Bill plays very similarly to me, but better, check his videos out.

I guess the post is a little buried now but the thief was almost certainly using a variant of the Jinzu backstab build:

“Opener: Your opener, should always be Basilisk Venom => Skale Venom => Cloak and Dagger => Steal (during the animation of CnD) (This part is key, as the steal will stun them via Basilisk Venom preventing their escape in that 1 second) => Assassin’s Signet => Backstab. If you mess up the timing, you will get the Assassin’s Signet to trigger off of Steal or Cloak and Dagger. THIS IS OK! They do massive damage as it is! In the video, you’ll see one where I hit Cloak and Dagger for 11k! Optionally, but HIGHLY recommended, use HASTE before Assassin’s Signet (it seems like the buff from Assassin’s Signet goes away when you use haste after it, so use it before). This basically makes it so most classes just don’t survive a few hits after your opener. If this is done right, you will have TEN STACKS of might, and 2 stacks of vulnerability before you even hit them with backstab.”

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Jinzu-s-Burst-Backstab-Build/first#post233234

In addition to all that damage in the quote , the spec gives steal a 5k (on crit) “mug,” and combined with the haste signet, in one second will deal a massive amount of damage. The thief almost certainly ran away after he killed you (the opener above takes about 45 seconds to reset).

Aeden.5896:

I guess the post is a little buried now but the thief was almost certainly using a variant of the Jinzu backstab build:

“Opener: Your opener, should always be Basilisk Venom => Skale Venom => Cloak and Dagger => Steal (during the animation of CnD) (This part is key, as the steal will stun them via Basilisk Venom preventing their escape in that 1 second) => Assassin’s Signet => Backstab. If you mess up the timing, you will get the Assassin’s Signet to trigger off of Steal or Cloak and Dagger. THIS IS OK! They do massive damage as it is! In the video, you’ll see one where I hit Cloak and Dagger for 11k! Optionally, but HIGHLY recommended, use HASTE before Assassin’s Signet (it seems like the buff from Assassin’s Signet goes away when you use haste after it, so use it before). This basically makes it so most classes just don’t survive a few hits after your opener. If this is done right, you will have TEN STACKS of might, and 2 stacks of vulnerability before you even hit them with backstab.”

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Jinzu-s-Burst-Backstab-Build/first#post233234

In addition to all that damage in the quote , the spec gives steal a 5k (on crit) “mug,” and combined with the haste signet, in one second will deal a massive amount of damage. The thief almost certainly ran away after he killed you (the opener above takes about 45 seconds to reset).

I guess the post is a little buried now but the thief was almost certainly using a variant of the Jinzu backstab build:

“Opener: Your opener, should always be Basilisk Venom => Skale Venom => Cloak and Dagger => Steal (during the animation of CnD) (This part is key, as the steal will stun them via Basilisk Venom preventing their escape in that 1 second) => Assassin’s Signet => Backstab. If you mess up the timing, you will get the Assassin’s Signet to trigger off of Steal or Cloak and Dagger. THIS IS OK! They do massive damage as it is! In the video, you’ll see one where I hit Cloak and Dagger for 11k! Optionally, but HIGHLY recommended, use HASTE before Assassin’s Signet (it seems like the buff from Assassin’s Signet goes away when you use haste after it, so use it before). This basically makes it so most classes just don’t survive a few hits after your opener. If this is done right, you will have TEN STACKS of might, and 2 stacks of vulnerability before you even hit them with backstab.”

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Jinzu-s-Burst-Backstab-Build/first#post233234

In addition to all that damage in the quote , the spec gives steal a 5k (on crit) “mug,” and combined with the haste signet, in one second will deal a massive amount of damage. You almost certainly did not see that thief do anyone than run away after he killed you (the opener above takes about 45 seconds to reset).

P/D is, by far, my favorite spec and I’m pretty sure it will eventually outpace DD and SP as the most popular spec.

I strongly disagree with your trait choices. All those points in Deadly Arts and you only use spider venom? No cloaked in the shadows (blind on stealth) from shadow arts? Power of inertia over fleet shadow?

I suppose this is an endorsement of how diverse play styles can be in this game.

You mean being able to stealth once before combat for nothing other than a mediocre opener followed by no stealth ever again until you get out of combat?

No.

(but I guess if you mean in addition to how the class is designed today then yeah that would be cool as would a no CD no constraint teleport and invincibility toggle).

PD is a stealth build. You should be using Sneak Attack a lot, which is much more powerful. Vital shot can’t be too powerful because it’s a ranged attack and so much easier and safer to use than dagger main hands Double Strike (it’s shocking how effective just running & dodging around with VS auto-attack against melee can be in PvP).

PD is a condition build, unlike DD. Don’t underestimate the bleeds. They bypass toughness and, while removable, are constantly getting applied.

PD has a lot of synergy with the Deadly Arts and Shadow Arts trait lines. It has much less synergy with Critical Strikes than the other popular builds.

They should have surrendered.

If you agree with the OP, the thief class is probably not for you. Or you don’t yet understand the class play style. You can’t play a thief like a warrior. Thieves are a thinking mans class, and I’m not saying that to condescend anyone, it really is.

Thieves win by out playing their opponents, we do stuff that’s “cheap.” We make other players believe that we can “permastealth” and have too much mobility or blinds or stuns or damage or whatever they’re complaining about in the forums.

PW and BS builds are “cheap” and thiefy, but have way overvalued damage over utility, which makes them not fun and much less well rounded because our class is supposed to have lots of that.

I’ve been using a pistol-dagger build and it’s amazing, the key is understanding that you whittle down your opponent with condition and auto attack damage instead of big crits while annoying your opponent. For PD, that means staying stealthed and gaining all the benefits of stealth such as condition removal, health regen, initiative regen, the AoE blind, etc. That might sound more boring than big numbers to some but, I think, for natural thieves, it’s as fun as combat can get. I believe that as time goes on highly effective PD and SD builds will become go to “cookie cutter” builds.

Check this video out, this guy does PD and shows how fun and effective this build and the thief class can be:

Please fix the heartseeker miss rate bug, there was distinct increase in miss rate after the “nerf” (it’s at least 33% now, I can’t even remember it missing before). This isn’t about PvP or spamming, the skill is just terrible right now. It’s not uncommon to miss target golems from behind three times in a row.

Another bug that should be looked at, or at least get clarified as by design, is sigil passive’s going away during sigil active cool downs. This is not the behavior described in the tooltips and affects the usefulness of sigils, particularly the signet of shadows’ passive movement increase.

Dodging is also wonky, and often “resets” my location back to the mob, despite no clear obstructions in the dodge path.

Yeah I traited into Uncatchable as soon as I could and kept for a while even though I found it underwhelming (the description is misleading as the effect are much less powerful than the utility skill of the same name).

As you found, it’s area of effect is very small, I’ve found it almost never applies even when an enemy is chasing directly behind you.

I stopped traiting it don’t miss it at all.

Thanks for posting this I had the same problem in WvW the other day, repro’d on all audio devices on my machine, so it seemed unlikely that it was a hardware issue.

Changing the audio settings had no effect.

It happened very soon after I enabled Crossfire + Eyefinity (which has introduced other problems in GW2), so if anyone else has that commonality please note it!

This change is perfect.

They’re everywhere. Bridges and gates are just paved in overlapping arrow circles and they can completely stall progress.

They don’t give an overly unfair advantage to one side or the other, but it seems like their cost is too low for the amount of ez-mode pain they dish out for most WvW scenarios, which is probably why so many people are using them.

It’s not very epic for both sides to stare at each other across a bridge or at the front gate for 15 minutes until half the people on one side leave out of boredom.