Guild Wars 2

They’re already working on ways to have every class use every weapon, though the armor-influenced cooldown idea is actually interesting; otherwise, it simply runs into the same old quandary.

On a side-note: They apparently have several teams working separately at any one time. I’m not certain how they’re divided, however.

I’ve noticed something similar on occasion, and my Guardian friend’s also noticed an issue where their knockback hasn’t been taking – deals damage, sends the enemy flying, and then the enemy jigs back into place a half-second later.

I’m actually not entirely sure whether I can call the opinions ‘very polarizing.’ Most of the debate has centered on the method of the change, rather than the change itself.

Most of those who disagree, at least that I can recall, do so on grounds addressed in the very first post (aesthetics or the deception concern). I’ve quoted the first post in response to opinions so many times that I’m going to just start quoting the whole kitten thing whenever somebody tries to make a point that’s addressed in Post #1.

Some simply don’t like the idea, and that’s perfectly alright, but most of those who actually give reasons for their dislike have been finding them addressed by the very first post.

The immense development time, as well, would actually be a good thing – if they were to do it, I’m certain that many players who have a particular aesthetic they would like to keep would want time to get said aesthetic together. If they were to announce their intent to do so far in advance of it actually happening, then these players will have plenty of time.

On a different note, I’m pretty sure that trait idea would fall into the same trap as the cross-armor transmutation that apparently has been asked for since the beginning, particularly with the onset of the ‘every class, every weapon’ thing that they’ve already stated their intention to achieve.

That’s entirely possible that’s what’s happening to your turrets, but I’m pretty sure the turnout for the world bosses when I’ve been fighting them has been relatively sparse; my turrets will generally attack mooks, but not the dragons themselves.

Another anomaly I’m noticing that may well be related to the dragon issue: Turrets don’t attack things like the Research Pods or Control Nodes in the Funhouse events, despite them being neutral objects, as far as I can see.

That certainly does have a bit to do with it.

Things I like: Turrets, Gadgets, and the toolbelt skills thereof.

Things I dislike: The emphasis placed on Kits, the RNG on Elixirs. Any toolbelt skill that uses RNG to determine its effects. Elixirs U and X’s being derivatives of other classes’ skills.

I like more than I dislike, I can assure you, or I wouldn’t play the class at all.

I would list our limited weapon choices as something I dislike, but it’s slated to be addressed anyway. My opinion of the armor is actually fairly lukewarm; I feel we should be heavy armor, but I’m not that worried about it.

Notice that this thread is also several months old by now. Opinions stated before the thread initially died may well have evolved into something else entirely.

Arkham Creed: If the concern of an outcry is too great, then maybe just keep the skins only visible to the person using them. Or, hell, just have it all be client-side, for all I care. There’s always a way to make it work, if one thinks about it for a moment.

I’m going to ask you to go and read the first post thoroughly. If you still feel it’s a bad idea, go ahead and give your reasons. I promise you, I will actually try to answer them. I’m actually rather curious as to why, at this point; if you feel it’s not worth your time, then what about this gaining any kind of following is so alarming? It’s not likely to happen, so what’s so worrisome about it?

“Offer a complimentary swapping of skill ranks from Leatherworker to Armorsmith. " Direct quote from the first post. Go check. I haven’t edited it. I’ve made a point, throughout this thread, of not editing that first post, specifically so you can know that I don’t go back and add kitten to cover my kitten . Maybe I don’t mention recipes, but that’s because I’d hope it’s safe to assume that, if they were going to actually do this, they would include the recipes. Don’t you think so?

Big change, try to make it as inoffensive as possible, “Let’s just not transfer the recipes, Bob.” “Great idea, let’s just go ahead and give everybody a real reason to get kitten ed.”

Most of this was addressed in the original post, come to think of it. I believe I made a point of figuring out a way to propose changing the stats without changing the look,. About the only part of this that A ) probably isn’t aesthetics, and B ) isn’t demanding written apologies for some inconvenience that would be pretty much illusory if this idea were followed, is that you might possibly be talking about several different sets of armor.

And here’s how I’d fix that: Instead of having it look for only the set the character is wearing, have it look for any armor soulbound to the character, and otherwise continue exactly as otherwise would occur.

I’d actually go back and edit that into the first post, but then you’d be sitting there going “Did he edit that in?” about everything else (fun fact, I edited ‘about everything else’ into this post, along with this note and the line break between this paragraph and the next).

Well, if you actually read it in the first place; the frequency with which I find myself quoting directly from it is making me wonder how many people actually do and how many people read the first half and skip right on down to the postbox.

That might explain why they might not be pointing at the foot when they’re placed next to it, but it doesn’t explain why they’re not firing. It also does nothing to explain why they don’t even point at the dragon, or its theoretical ‘damage location,’ despite not firing for several cycles. Most of the time, my turrets simply keep aiming whatever their default direction is.

On a side-note, I’ve personally witnessed Static Shot bouncing from one paw, to the head, to the other paw, which seems to indicate that they’re all targets.

I’ve also used turrets against the Fire Elemental in Metrica, noticing the color of its name…and they don’t attack it either, even when it’s the closest target. Instead, they snap around and shoot a farther-away Ember – which was quite noticeable, as the Rocket turret was the only one to turn, while the Rifle turret just sat there pointing exactly as it had been positioned when I originally placed it.

Also: I specifically went and tested whether Turrets would attack yellow-named objects, like Unstable Ice Formations and the Funhouse Gate. They do. If you try to test your turrets by flinging them past the ice-wall, test them in front of it first to make sure they’re not just attacking it.

On another sidenote, I find it amusing that reports of a single trait malfunctioning get a dev response within four hours, and reports that an entire skillset doesn’t function properly against at least four (three documented in the video right there, and I’ll be working on compiling video of the rest once my internet stops being so flaky) world bosses doesn’t get so much as a “Huh. Script looks fine.”

Hopefully this’ll happen before the Engineer Kits overriding Backpieces gets addressed – otherwise, you’ll be waiting until sometime in 2017, at this rate.

They can be placed in such a way that they seem like they should be attacking, but they still won’t, as far as I’ve seen. It can be difficult to discern whether they’re actually doing anything due to the masses of players and attacks being dropped on the big target, so I tried to find places that weren’t going to be massed on in order to eliminate the possibility that I simply wasn’t seeing it due to visual noise.

When fighting the Claw of Jormag, I placed all three turrets around the foot fewer people attack, on the far side of it. If you observe the video, the turrets never take action against the dragon, despite being between the ‘fingers’ of one of the three targetable locations on the Claw of Jormag. The only rocket fired in the entire engagement is at the Veteran Icebrood fighting a group some distance away, and no other turret takes any action.

Against Tequatl, I placed my turrets between its legs; despite being in what should have been a target-rich environment, they simply never attacked, unless they let loose upon some hapless undead wretch.

Against the Shatterer, I placed them a small distance away – close enough that I could attack with my pistols meant that I was close enough that at least a couple of my turrets would be able to attack. Once I’d cleared the few enemies who came near…the turrets simply pointed in the opposite direction and took no action for several firing cycles. I even went so far as to drop a Supply Crate on the Shatterer’s foot, and then went looking for the Flame Turret I knew would spawn – it’s sitting there, practically in his foot, and taking no action. It’s not even pointing directly at his foot, nor is it pointing at the target mark.

I’ve always disliked Kits and Elixirs, so I’ve usually used Turrets. Lately, Gadgets (particularly Throw Mine, Slick Shoes and Rocket Boots) are finding their way onto the bar, though.

That only works for Engineers who A) use Kits and use the Backpack Regenerator trait. My intention was something that would benefit all Engineers, as some simply don’t like using Kits.

Update: I’ve tested my turrets on environmental structures with yellow names.

They attacked said structures.

Whatever it’s associated with, it’s bloody stupid that it’s an issue a year after release.

Here’s the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms3w2fEPTYk&feature=youtu.be

Sorry for the poor quality of the video, but you should be able to see the issues, particularly if you pay attention to the directions the turrets are facing – they only face a dragon if I’ve set them pointing at it.

I’m going to be doing tests of the bug against every world boss that I can see the turrets after placing them near them – I have a hunch about what’s causing the problem, and it’s bloody stupid.

Here’s what I think is happening:

• Turrets attack creatures indicated by the system as Hostile. We see Hostile creatures as creatures with Red names.
• The three dragons (Tequatl, Shatterer and Claw) all have Yellow names, which is what indicate Neutral creatures to players.

This suggests to me that the dragons are considered Neutral creatures, if they’re really considered creatures at all, and thus that the Turrets simply don’t know to attack. Fixing this seems like it would be easy – just have the system recognize the dragons, and any other world boss currently recognized as Neutral by the system, as Hostile instead.

I have video proof, if I can get the kitten render program to function properly. I’ll put it up here when I get it rendered – dragons first.

What kind of breakage are you talking about?

Personally, I’m figuring they’re not doing things because they don’t have proof of it failing to function properly. I’m in the process of making a circuit of dragons to take video proof that turrets ignore them entirely, so hopefully that’ll finally be addressed, after almost a year.

Edit: I may well make a circuit of all world bosses just to check a hunch – hunch being, specifically, that yellow-named bosses may be entirely ignored by turrets, due to their yellow names.

Arkham Creed.7358:

timidobserver.7925:

I agree with this thread. I can’t really see any issue with putting Engis in heavy armor.

How about the fact that it makes no sense conceptually or thematically?

Seriously, when was the last time you saw a mechanic clocking into work in full plate armor? Or a computer tech in chain mail?

When was the last time you saw a mechanic fight a dragon? Or a computer tech take a pistol-mounted blowtorch to zombies?

For those who are confused: Atttempt.

Transmutation stones working between armor classes without restriction would lead to triggering the deception concern – it’d be difficult to tell what type of armor was being worn, so a character could look like they’re wearing newbie leathers but really be wearing high-tier plate. This is something the devs have already said will not happen, for precisely that reason, and is pretty much why the last two sentences of the original post exist – preventing the issue before it ever came up by having the skin only be visible when it didn’t matter.

Aside from that…well, the downside is that, without having there be specific advantages to different armor types, using Medium armor when Heavy armor is available to the same class and is identical in every way except that it has higher defense would be, sheerly from a numbers standpoint, self-gimping.

About the only one of those points that could be used as a functional argument for allowing the class to use two different armor types is the last, and that would only work if it were applied to every class.

They implemented a 5-minute lifetime for Engineer Turrets. Probably related to this issue (though I’m not sure what effect this actually had) more than anything.

It would be awful nice if Turrets could attack Dragons. I think the Dragons stay technically Neutral the entire fight (as their name does not change colors to red), and the turrets thus don’t see them as targets – I’ve checked my turrets against neutral mobs in other zones, and they simply don’t seem to care that the mobs exist until the mob goes hostile.

Actually, I hadn’t assumed that. What I had assumed: Ranger Pets, being their class mechanic, will naturally be superior to Turrets, a set of Utility Skills.

Necromancer Minions, Mesmer clones (or whatever minions they use their Utility Skills to create; I’m not familiar with their skill types), and Guardian Summons could all be compared to Engineer Turrets, however. So. How do they stack up?

Also, if you’re going to react to perceived assumptions by going ‘why bother trying to change their minds,’ then don’t even bother making threads like this. Certainly don’t if you’re trying to actually get anything done. If the people who proved to Anet that the Scope trait was nonfunctional had gone “Eh, he assumes it’s working, what’s the point?” it might never have gotten addressed.

They would also be demolished with a particularly virulent glare, as well as being, most likely, subject to having their base damages be reduced.

That was the side-note, however. Would you mind clarifying your point about whose minions these are you’re talking about? If you’re trying to get Anet’s attention, simply saying they exist isn’t going to cut it.

Before I even get started, I’d like to make it clear that I like to use Turrets, and think they need work, so it’s not like I’m trying to poke holes in anything.

1: Which classes are you referring to having minions/pets with more damage, mobility and the ability to crit? Don’t mention the Ranger. Pets are their whole schtick, and they can only have one out at a time anyway, while we can have up to eight turrets. Do Guardian summons, Mesmer [whatever their minions are] and Necromancer minions blow our turrets out of the water? In what areas of performance?

2: Mortar actually used to benefit from Rifled Turret Barrels…but it also used to actually be classified as a Turret in its tooltip, whereas now it simply is not considered a turret at all.

3: Yeah, it would be pretty nice to be able to target our turrets on an enemy. Be nice for other classes’ minions to be able to do so as well, come to think of it. Also be pretty kittening great if they’d stop shooting at destroyed furniture.

On a personal note, I’m kind of curious as to why turrets haven’t been allowed to scale with all stats instead of just Condition and Boon-related ones. Is the threat of a glass cannon Turreteer that traumatic?

They’ve also said they’re going to be adding new traits, balanced against existing ones, so I’m going to hope they don’t start nerfing things into the ground. They haven’t given us a whack with the balance mallet in a little while, but I’m not sure if that means we’ve fallen off the radar or what.

Tolmos: People who would like to keep the look is 90% of the “How to do it inoffensively” section, so don’t worry, you weren’t forgotten. If we start adding traits and stuff, then other classes will start yammering for their own new traits to mimic what those do, and then it gets even more awkward. Most of the headache that I’m seeing comes from people not actually reading the first post all the way through or telling me to go play a different class.

Imaginary: While they may never do the Heavy Armor thing, they’re going to be finding ways to give us every single weapon. They’re going to be finding ways to give everybody every single weapon. This was actually confirmed by the devs – they even specifically mentioned that Engineers will get Hammers. Does this mean that you will be ‘forced’ to use them? No. You can go merrily on your way, using the same stuff as before, more likely than not – even if they decide to give us Weapon Swap, for whatever reason, you can fill both slots with pre-existing weapon choices and then never use or see them anyway because you prefer kits (at least, that’s the impression I’m getting). I’m not forced to use Kits, any more than you will ever be forced to use a longbow.

Fun side-fact: I’ve actually never played GW1, so I don’t miss the Dervish or Ritualist at all. As far as I’ve heard, the Dervish became popular when it was rebuilt some time after its inclusion, thus the inclusion of it in the list of reasons.

This thread had been made months ago, and necro’d rather more recently, for those confused about why I’d be suggesting adding weapons when we already know they’re going to.

Vennyhedgie.5369:

Anymras.5729:

complete exclusion of magic excluding alchemy

uh what
Edit: On topic, engineer was originally planned as a heavy armor class afaik

Engineers don’t use magic, as far as I’m aware – like, at all. Some people would consider alchemy (such as our elixirs) to be magic, though. And…yeah, that’s pretty much a chunk of what made me suggest it in the first place, knowing that they had thought about having us be heavy to begin with.

Arkham Creed.7358:

Anymras.5729:

Arkham: It’d require more polishing (for example, making the skinboxes mentioned in the original post Soulbound would be a good start, and making it so that only the armor worn at the time of transition’s appearance would be kept until the skinbox was used, as well as preventing the Medium skin from being transmuted to any other Heavy armors) to handle, but I still think they could do it.

Oh I agree that they probably could do it, but that doesn’t change the fact that they have already said they won’t do it. It has nothing to do with technology restrictions or limitations, or code, or whatever. It is a design choice. They decided that you need to be able to visually tell at least what weight class another player is when you encounter them, so heavy armor stays heavy armor. Again; yes they could do it, but they never will.

And again, for the second time since this thread was made: Here’s the last sentence or two of the initial post. These are intended specifically to address the mentioned issue in as inoffensive a way as possible.

“Only have the retained appearance be visible to others in PvE; this is a balance/deception concern. In PvP, the retained appearance should only be visible to the player, if possible.”

It’s after the bolded bit about testing, so I’m not too surprised that people keep missing it, but it’s there. I’ve actually made a point of not editing the post, even to remove the bold, simply so people can know that it was always there. It was thought of, and a proposal made for how to handle it.

I don’t typically consider things from that particular point of view, as I don’t particularly like WvW and don’t do much PvP. However, this would only bring us to the same level as the Warrior and Guardian, as far as defenses and durability is concerned; I don’t see a problem with that. It would also make us the Condition Damage class of the Heavy Armor tier.

Arkham: It’d require more polishing (for example, making the skinboxes mentioned in the original post Soulbound would be a good start, and making it so that only the armor worn at the time of transition’s appearance would be kept until the skinbox was used, as well as preventing the Medium skin from being transmuted to any other Heavy armors) to handle, but I still think they could do it.

Aberrant: I’ve felt that we could use more defense for a while. This was written between bouts of running, screaming, from hordes of creatures which would peel off from their original player-targets if I so much as launched one attack their direction, and influenced pretty heavily by getting mashed into the dirt by simple dint of there being huge amounts of damage rammed down my throat, despite my build at the time’s focus on being tanky (30 Inventions for Turrets, and a full set of Toughness/Vitality gear), if it helps to clarify where it’s coming from. Think Ascalonian Catacombs was involved somehow.

Another way to implement Heavy Armor defenses, without actually using Heavy Armor, could be to use the new skills they’re going to be adding to add a set of skills based on the idea of technological armor modifications – basically, treat them like Signets that give a passive Defense/Armor boost, and maybe a passive effect like the Signets of other classes.

Obviously, that might be a bit much, but I think, if they did it in such a way that the defense boost was the Toolbelt effect and the Signet-like technological effects were on the Utility Bar, I think it could work out.

And that’s exactly the sentiment I predicted when I originally created the plan for how to handle the transition.

Direct quote from first post regarding handling the issues of appearance:
“How to do it inoffensively: Change all armor soulbound to the character to Heavy Armor, but retain the appearance of the Medium Armor only on the set currently worn by the character. Give a skinbox (via mail) that converts Medium-appearance armor into its appearance’s Heavy Tier/Rarity equivalent appearance (T5 Rare-T5 Rare, T5 Rare stats transmuted with T1 Common skin – T5 Rare stats with T1 Common skin) when used (with no less than two confirmation menus, both of which will make clear that the change is permanent and wholesale).”

Personally, I do definitely agree that the Heavy Aetherblade gear is absolutely kittening hideous.

If they made us a Heavy Armor class at this point, I should hope they didn’t change our skills into “So, uh, now you guys are Tech-Based Warrior types. Have fun!” and instead left us with the skills we still have.

It’s not unthinkable that they’ll make a Mech-Suit skin for armor; the current series of things with the Aetherblades has already added steampunk-flavored gear, after all.

Strangely enough, I’m actually not concerned with the looks of the armor – I barely look at my Engineer, these days. Given that I’ve played him for hundreds of hours, I pretty much just go “He’s there, right? Yeah. Cool.” Any suggestions I’ve made regarding aesthetics are purely to make the theoretical transition as painless as possible – ninety percent of the armor switch suggestion is how to keep people happy while implementing it.

Ah, so it’s the playstyle and skillset that results from a class being designed with heavy armor that you disagree with.

What if they didn’t change our skills, and gave us Heavy Armor? All the same skills would be available, leaving possible differences in playstyle entirely dependent upon the user.

Wow, thread necro ahoy. Thought this one died a while ago, but okay, here we go.

Eulogy: What advantages does (or, to put it more appropriately, considering that this is still simply a proposition, would) Medium armor have over Heavy that would actually make people prefer to use it, from a mechanical standpoint, thus providing a justification for bothering to make a class able to use two types of armor at all beyond aesthetics?
This is the main issue I see with making the Engineer (and, by extension, the other classes, as otherwise it’d be cause for some outcry) able to use two armor types – the simple ‘why bother?’ of it.

Durzlla:
A ) Did you make an Engineer because they used Medium armor, or because you liked the Engineer as a class concept? I know I certainly didn’t pick my class based on armor, but based on what I liked. I’ve even tried making Warriors and Guardians – I just didn’t like their skills much, so I stopped playing them.

B ) I don’t think I implied that the Dervish would or should ever be Heavy. Part of my reasoning regarding moving the Engineer to Heavy, in fact, was based on the assumption that, if the Dervish were ever added, it would be a Medium class.

Without moving the Engineer, the only class whose armor type was ever uncertain (and thus the only class which should even be considered for the change), to the Heavy tier, this would leave the tiers weighted oddly, with 2 Heavy, 4 Medium, and 3 Light, barring other additional classes.

P.S.: I don’t like Kits much. I think, to put it simply, that they’re an overemphasized aspect of the class. I’m not going to suggest adding more of them until they start adding more of every skill type, and that’ll simply be because I think that Kit maniacs should have the same number of options as Elixir-chuggers, Turret-huggers and Gadgetfools.

On the bright side, now we can, uh…tell how big the radius on Magnetic Inversion is! Yeah!

…also, I didn’t even know that Elite Supplies was supposed to improve the Mortar’s recharges to begin with. Didn’t really care, though, as the Mortar sucks to begin with, and while the new Rampage seems neat (certainly rather powerful), can’t help but notice that we’ll only get it sometimes due to our RNG-based elite.

Still nothing about Turret fire rate fixes, though, or any of our other bugs that I’ve seen people actually talk about.

yanchoy.9176:

Anymras.5729:

Rangers have the same trait as an Adept Minor trait. They spend 5 points and get it without having to choose it, we spend 30 and have to blow a Grandmaster on it.

It’s little things like that, that make it seem like they ran short of ideas when it came to us.

Speaking of professions with similar traits.

Necromancer: Dhuumfire
Tier: Grandmaster
Source: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dhuumfire

Engineer: Incendiary Powder
Tier: Adept
Source: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Incendiary_Powder

So, yeah, don’t make hasty generalizations.

Hey, didn’t say it didn’t seem like they ran out of ideas on that, too. It seems like Dhuumfire’s just them going “Well, they’ve got access to all of these other conditions, why not give them Burning, too?” and trying to figure out somewhere to wedge it.

Rangers have the same trait as an Adept Minor trait. They spend 5 points and get it without having to choose it, we spend 30 and have to blow a Grandmaster on it.

It’s little things like that, that make it seem like they ran short of ideas when it came to us.

Every item requires Rank 400 in its given crafting skill, and can only be crafted by level 80 characters. Can’t trade ‘em, either, and can only make one per five days, so think hard about what you’re making.

Also: Speaking as somebody who did actually beat Adnul (after the patch, it took me two tries), and then watched somebody else try him…it’s definitely all luck.

It took me two tries to take him out after the patch, and then I watched a friend try.
They still haven’t put him under the table, as far as I know.

It’s not an impossible game, but it’s completely independent of any actual skill against Adnul (and the NPCs in general, really, as they flagrantly break the rules). All you can really do is keep trying and hope it works out.

Adnul’s actually been patched down in difficulty already.

The Adnul people are having issues with now is actually easier than he was before. Unsurprisingly, some people are saying the patch didn’t even do anything except for eliminate food buffs.

This kitten bar brawl has been going for the last three days on Crystal Desert.

This is bloody kittened.

I think they also intend to give new skill-point skills, from this comment:
“Maybe you’ve unlocked every skill and know every trait, and have your legendary… what’s left? Well these new skills will keep you progressing without constantly inflating your power and making it impossible for others to catch up. Along with the new system, new ways and activities to earn skill points will be added and there won’t be some insane grind to obtain them.”

Why would they add more skill points without more skills to use them on?

Engineer using a bow actually isn’t that weird.

Consider: Hawkeye, from the Avengers, could easily be used as inspiration for the Engineer bow – his ‘superpower’ might be that he’s got great aim, but his modified bow, with its special arrows, is what makes him able to contribute when working alongside Thor, Iron Man, and Captain America. Without his special arrows, he wouldn’t even be able to touch Loki – Loki actually caught one of his arrows without so much as looking where it was first, but was caught off-guard by the explosive tip.

Thus, the Bows could easily be Engineer weapons – the weapon itself might be outdated, but it and its ammunition can be modified beyond their intended parameters, just like the Pistol, Rifle and Shield the Engineer already has doing absurd things.

Yeah. Staves, Scepters and Foci will all be some weird things to handle – maybe they’ll have some kind of interaction with Turrets or call out golems or something?

Sabull.5670:

Anymras.5729:

…okay, yeah, something’s kitteny here. And in a weird way, too. All tests were performed without Rifled Turret Barrels trait.

How I mean ‘weird’:
Rifle Turret, tooltip damage 126, is dealing 137 or so on the first shot to Jungle Spider in Metrica, and 39 on each shot thereafter, for what I’d guess to be about a 60% difference.
Against Mosquitoes, tooltip damage 128, it’s dealing 143 on the first shot, and 43 on all shots after.
Marsh Drake Hatchlings take 128 from the first shot, and 38 on all shots after.
Similar findings have occurred for enemies in Caledon Forest, Queensdale, Wayfarer Foothills, and the Plains of Ascalon.

It doesn’t even consistently deal the higher damage on the first shot, occasionally (I think after a particular time delay, perhaps?) dealing the lesser damage from shots 1 to infinity.

So obviously there’s something wrong here. I decided to go see how it would affect high-level characters, using Frostgorge Sound and Orr.

Rifle Turret, tooltip damage 476, is dealing 539 on every attack to Icebrood Hunter in Frostgorge Sound. 488 to Young Arctodus.

Against a Risen Farmer, at tooltip damage 457, it’s dealing 462 on Shot #1, and 443 thereafter. Same against a Risen Chicken.

I’m not even sure what the hell is going on with this, at this point. The best I can figure is that it’s an issue with the character scaling, as it seems to be a problem in areas where I’m severely downleveled.

I got abit confused about this, do you think you should always do the tooltip dmg or? Cos that was just 2 different situations.
1. As downleveled – always/sometimes, tooltip saying [bignumber] which happens on the first hit but all hits after that are less damage. This is extreme one third of the damage in a lowest lvl zone, but small on higher level.
2. As lvl 80 everything working as intented.

If you check, let’s say Pistol #1 tooltip and against mob at down leveled lvl4 (metrica). You notice tooltip around 108+ (thats with my condi gear) but mobs take less than fourth of that damage.
So looks like tooltips being wrong and rifle turret starting to do the correct damage only after 1st hit.

No, I don’t think every hit should be dealing the tooltip’s damage. It’s more a point of reference than anything else, in this case.

The actual issue is:
Turrets, when placed in downleveled areas (only pattern I’ve seen so far regarding the issue), often deal a massive amount of damage on their first attack, and then start dealing much less immediately afterward.

Which damage is actually the intended damage, I don’t know – though the rarity of skills actually doing their tooltip damage is a pretty strong indicator that what should be being dealt is the lesser.

Also, side-issue: Rifled Turret Barrels only affects shots after the first, so if shot 1 deals 100 damage, shot 2+ will deal 115. This might be related to the wonky damage issue above, as they both manifest on the first attack by an affected turret.

…okay, yeah, something’s kitteny here. And in a weird way, too. All tests were performed without Rifled Turret Barrels trait.

How I mean ‘weird’:
Rifle Turret, tooltip damage 126, is dealing 137 or so on the first shot to Jungle Spider in Metrica, and 39 on each shot thereafter, for what I’d guess to be about a 60% difference.
Against Mosquitoes, tooltip damage 128, it’s dealing 143 on the first shot, and 43 on all shots after.
Marsh Drake Hatchlings take 128 from the first shot, and 38 on all shots after.
Similar findings have occurred for enemies in Caledon Forest, Queensdale, Wayfarer Foothills, and the Plains of Ascalon.

It doesn’t even consistently deal the higher damage on the first shot, occasionally (I think after a particular time delay, perhaps?) dealing the lesser damage from shots 1 to infinity.

So obviously there’s something wrong here. I decided to go see how it would affect high-level characters, using Frostgorge Sound and Orr.

Rifle Turret, tooltip damage 476, is dealing 539 on every attack to Icebrood Hunter in Frostgorge Sound. 488 to Young Arctodus.

Against a Risen Farmer, at tooltip damage 457, it’s dealing 462 on Shot #1, and 443 thereafter. Same against a Risen Chicken.

I’m not even sure what the hell is going on with this, at this point. The best I can figure is that it’s an issue with the character scaling, as it seems to be a problem in areas where I’m severely downleveled.

Is this an issue with all turrets, or just some? I’ve been testing this (on target golems in Heart of the Mists) for a couple minutes, and haven’t seen any damage decrease with any turret, as of this moment.

In fact, what I am noticing is that, when Rifled Turret Barrels is equipped, it’s not applying the damage increase to the first shot after placement, leading the second shot and all after to have more damage.