Guild Wars 2

Thanks for votes, it has been updated up to Ruzin.2410.

Thanks for the vote moonstarmac, it has been updated up to you.

@Xillllix.3485, yes the goal of this topic is to help the community and the devs to get an impression of what everyone felt about the specialization.

I think seeing the votes (and the justifications for them) gives 2 main contributions, first it allows people to understand what is the prevalent sentiment in the forums about the specialization and, second, it allows us to ponder the level of improvement (not necessarily in terms of powers, but in terms of mechanics) this specialization may need to really reach out to the players.

The other topics will discuss the feedback and how this may be done, but at least what I am gathering is that people have come to terms with the fact that this will be our specialization, so what people want is to make it viable / useful to be an alternative (and not just a “go to” option).

Thanks for the votes guys, updated up yo Xillllix.3485.

Must say 1 & 2 were starting to grow, but 4 has now skyrocketed

Thanks for additional votes, updated up to BlackBeard.2873.

So here is an idea, let’s divide and conquer each lacking point from the tempest that we feel could improve.

From the voting pool: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/Let-s-Vote-ONLY-Tempest/first#post5316807 I feel like the position of the community is not all out rejection to the Tempest, but more feel like it is a potentially good specialization, but needs tweaks.

I must say that at first I was really against it, but I had my chance to cool it off and I think we may work with what we have and get something out of it.

So let’s talk traits in this topic.

I think some key missing / changes to traits to really flesh out the Tempest would be:

1. Merge Speedy Conduit and Hardy Conduit. Make new Minor 3: “While Overloading you pulse 1 stack of stability (2s duration) to all allies in a 360 radius. Interval: 2s”.
Reason: Overloading is a big “Interrupt me sign”, pulsing stability 2s in a 2s interval gives some defense but does not nullify the threat of interrupts.

2. Latent Stamina: Grant vigor when attuning to water, Stability when attuning to earth, retaliation when attuning to fire and fury when attuning to air. [Would require changes to Elemental Contingency and Rock Solid]
Reason: There is no point in being attunement specific in a “all attunements” specialization. Giving different boons than Elemental Attunement does not override with it, but rather provides good combo with Bountiful Power, making that more of a contender with Evasive Arcana.

3. Tempestuous Aria: No longer grants mights on shout. Shouts become a Combo: Blast.
Reason: Warhorn is intended to be group buff and provide a lot of fields, shouts thus become very powerful with warhorn abilities and still stay interesting when pairing with other weapons. Helps to replace the Evasive Arcana style of play and open new possibilities with Bountiful Power and fighting more with Cantrips.

These are my main suggestions. Thoughts? What would you propose as well?

Thanks for votes thus far guys, updated up to yhvh.8703.

From the votes, I am getting that the majority thinks this is a potentially good specialization, but needs some tweaks (e.g., even high rating votes had an explanation that showed that there were lacking parts).

The stream ended, a lot of us have seen it or are finishing work to see it, so cast your vote on what you thought of it.

You do not need to justify your vote, and if you prefer to do so, please keep it to 1-2 lines and do not comment on other posters opinion. This is an “in my opinion topic”!

This topic is mainly to gather the overall impression of the forum on the specialization as currently shown

Use the following vote system, I will count the votes periodically:

Votes up to Kashrlyyk.5364: 72

1) Really Liked / Loved it (11 votes)
2) It was good. (6 votes)
3) It was neither good nor bad. (11 votes)
4) It was bad. (27 votes)
5) Hate it / It was terrible. (17 votes)

Average Rating:

Let us see the overall impression of the elementalists.

Mightybird.6034:

No invulnerability. No blocks. No evades. No movement skills. No teleports…. but they think adding 7% more to protection is going to make dagger/warhorn a frontliner….

k.

Also seriously, did no one else think (esp earth skill 4 i think) warhorn animations looked like farting…..

I did not like a lot of the animations.

They did very good jobs on a lot of the animations for the Chronomancer, Dragonhunter (flashiest of them all), Reaper and Revenant.

Elementalist had a ton of poor animations, for Wildifre that they were saying was “the best” it felt really really poor.

Just saw the Points of Interest, couldn’t see it because of work.

But I will say that the specialization is really really lackluster. It offers no new “play style”, in fact, at the start he says “we want you to be more of a brawler / group support style”, this is pretty much what we have today with D/D Celestial ele.

And if when thinking what to expand upon that the class couldn’t do before, that was certainly not the role we can’t do today – quite contrarily, it is the role we MOST do today.

I also really liked when asked “but eles die a lot in melee” his answer “yeah, well, you know, you have low health pool and armor, so yeah you have utilities for that right?”.

People also need to stop thinking OMG this adds so much to us. And to think about what it removes from you!

Remember, you only have 3 trait lines and to get Overload you need to throw 1 of the standard Cele ele D/D build and this new trait line offers nothing that surpasses Fire/Air in damage potential, maybe it offers something to surpass Earth but I need to think on that.

Warhorn skills are horrible, they do not give the needed support, in fact they are worst at supporting your group than D/D or D/F. I really can’t picture someone taking a warhorn over D or F under the argument of efficiency.

Shouts are also not that good either, cantrips will still reign supreme. The heal, lol, that one is not even worth the hero points.

The elite is well, like all other elementalist elites – terrible.

Overall, not impressed.

Kodiak.3281:

But stream in 3.5 hours! I can’t wait to be able to factually discuss the new Tempest skills/traits and this ridiculous, “Wait and see!” argument no longer can be used.

Wouldn’t get my hopes up. Next argument will be “numbers aren’t final! Let’s wait for the release before bashing on it! Trust ANET guys!”

Remedy.3429:

I want everyone claiming this elite spec “sucks” or “is completely useless” or “that its making them not even want to buy the expansion” to swear an oath that they will never play it. We are having a live stream today, and I bet it’s going to showcase some traits that are going to make this spec a lot better than you think it is. Mark my words, Tempest will return dagger/x to PvE.

Great, a PvE only specialization then? Boy so glad they really tried to give us something designed for a single game mode and not something that could be used in PvP and WvW, cause you know, there is no elementalist that plays those modes.

And also, in PvE anything works. I usually run D/D in PvE because I like the weapon pair, even if I know staff is far superior.

And as Kodiak said, we will see the math soon enough, but it is really digging it’s own grave when the specialization is offering most of its stuff for a single game mode.

NayNay.7680:

I was just trying to put some positive vibes back into this thread..

And I actually do like Tornado

I’m sorry you don’t

Conceptually Tornado is cool, IMO.

But Laraley is right, the skill is very lackluster in its practical use.

Xillllix.3485:

Kodiak.3281:

FrownyClown.8402:

stop moving all the posts to this forum. We all know the devs won’t read all this kittena.

IT’S MERGAGEDDON.

I don’t think I could follow this 30 different trains of posts and replies all put into this one mega thread if I had a week to sort it out.

I think this thread will probably go directly go in the trash can soon since it’s impossible to follow all the conversations anyway.

Dialogue would have been nice, they could have replied something like:
“Hi Elementalists, we understand you are concerned about the new elite and scepter/warhorn combo, but rest assured we want to make these as potent as possible and will improve them according to your feedback.”

Yup, this topic has become a mess.

They just clustered everything together and said “kitten it”.

I am calling it now, tomorrow the Points of Interest will say how ANET is excited that this specialization generate such a huge topic with everyone praising it and that this is awesome and the community loves it!

Oh and I am also calling it now, tomorrow will come and the reveal will show how much more inefficient this specialization will be in what we already do a ton of and we will have the White Knights new argument be:

“Well numbers aren’t final, wait for the HoT release!”

And once HoT is released, those that actually like elementalist will be stuck with a crap elite specialization and White Knights will just move on to another profession because they don’t give a kitten about the class or will just start complaining with us trying to hide that their blind fanboyism was part of the reason why we got stuck with such a bad elite spec in the first place.

Valento.9852:

The wiki can be edited by anyone, and I don’t police everything (nor do I have to), but that text doesn’t have sources so it’s not as accurate as the specialization article itself. Your quote, therefore, stands inaccurate.

Plus, overloading attunements DO change the way eles play.

Love it how you still try to hold on to your “inaccuracy argument”.

Check the source of that one you posted as being most accurate, here is where they pull it from:

http://www.pcgamer.com/guild-wars-2-heart-of-thorns-interview/#page-2

Then check the interview:

PCG: So philosophically, with creating these specialisations, was the idea to fill gaps a profession wouldn’t normally be equipped for?

Colin: Yeah, I think that’s a fair description. We definitely looked at each profession and asked what are some of the things that we think this profession doesn’t currently do that we’d love for them to be able to do? What role do we want to try to expand on that they can’t do, or what gameplay would be really awesome to add to this profession? (….)

And now you completely ignore the post where I say that we are still getting the exact same play style of being heavy in group support to say they are delivering?

Little advice: Read more.

What elementalist getting something?

We should just be glad we had the interview leak of info, which sadly brings more info than the post they put out today.

Valento.9852:

“Elite specializations keep the base profession core skills and traits in addition to the new ones provided by that elite specialization, while offering new profession mechanics or changing existing ones.”

Source: wiki

First, your quote is wrong (I remember when I first wrote that quoting from an early interview, and I stand correct to this moment). Second, you can’t change the attunements! They are the core of this profession and will always exist! Elite specs will work on top of attunements, and this is expected.

So, please, avoid quoting false information and understand the underlying approach for elite specs.

:)

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_2:_Heart_of_Thorns#Elite_specializations

Next time read the material on the wiki too before accusing of false quotes.

And to the guy above, no your idea certainly involved a lot of consumption of heavy stuff… but I guess that is what you need if you think that Elementalist can not group buff and group heal today, always needing to watch their positioning so the effects they get from swapping attunement, making and blasting fields, etc produce the most tide turning effect in battle.

I mean, it is not like elementalists today:

have a trait that let’s you give AoE boons on a very short cooldown; or
are able to heal 2 times for a sizeable amount and cure up to 3 conditions of himself and allies by simply dodge rolling while swapping to water (or 3 times and 4 conditions if they also use Dagger OH 5); or
share their auras (which they have good access to); or
provide up to 9 AoE might stacks by using a standard might generation rotation just once, which depends on a positioning to get the best effect.

They definitely did not have any of that in melee / close range so the new elite spec comes to fill in this HUGE void in group support that the elementalist had.

Vayne.8563:

Bottom line is, you haven’t even tried it yet, so you don’t really know if it’s a new play style or not. It’ll be a new play style for me, at any rate, even though I use dagger/dagger.

A new play style doesn’t really have a dictionary definition. Overcharging is a new mechanic for the profession. That’s all there is to it.

People who use the word lie when this is just a matter of interpretation seriously dent their credibility. People who insist on using that language, in my opinion, are the major reason Anet has stopped communicating with us.

No I have not tried, but the faults are still there. Let’s see if the Friday reveal touches on these faults and they say what they thought about them, but right now the spec seems a net loss.

And given the past reveals, I really expected the “fundamental” changes to the play style to be akin to the guardian, which really opened a possibility for the guardian to be a ranged threat – which it is not by any form today. That is fundamentally changing a class.

So when we get more of what we can already do, yeah I get really kittened off. Sure its a new mechanic (which thus far has a ton of flaws), but it does not “fundamentally” changes the class.

And ANET’s communication with its player base was poor since day one and only continued to be.

So yeah I am being overly aggressive with them, but after almost 3 years of them having 0 communication with their own community and then expecting a fundamental difference that, perhaps, could change us from our main bruiser tank role or our severe dependence on boons to survive, sorry if I find this specialization very lacking and not innovative.

Vayne.8563:

Not in WvW mate. Eles don’t usually run in in WvW. Staff ele is the meta.

Yeah they do if they are not in a zerg fight, but rather are roaming or in a small group.

And also, you want to melee channel a 2,5s ability in a WvW zerg train? You sir have a lot of courage to face the amount of CC in ZvZ fights with an interruptable channeling skill.

BlackBeard.2873:

When traveling between points, you are usually camping air for the +25% move-speed, so perhaps you can use the over-load at the start of fight for added burst, and again use it periodically in teamfights in between swaps to other attunements. It is hard to tell without knowing the EXACT timings and mechanics.

However, the BEST synergy would be some kind of tanky melee build, which is really hard to get a long channel off. It just seems so confused to me. This is probably why they had to take such a long break in specializations – even though they had these thematic concepts, and maybe even animations in mind, the class designers seem to be struggling to implement something fun and useful. This goes doubly for the ele dev, who we all know is completely lost in regards to designing the class.

Hmmm…. maybe, but then again I keep thinking back on that point that “After a period of time remaining in one attunement, players will be able to reactivate it to perform a special channeled ability” so I am not too sure the feasibility of you staying on air and popping the channel right at the beginning of a fight.

You know, this ability wouldn’t be so bad if they removed the channel requirement and made it that once you “charge” it you can pop it and it follows you around for 3s or something doing the effect and then ends. No additional lock out of the attunement, no additional lingering effect on the battle. Just charge it by staying in the attunement for a while – and pop it without fearing an interrupt.

Naturally the effect would need to be somewhat minor / moderate, but something useful you know?

Vayne.8563:

Frontline eles aren’t really all that common. It’s a new way to play the ele.

If you can’t see it, I don’t think the problem is Anet.

Say that again????

Do you know that the most used weapon in PvP is the dagger? I hardly call that a long range weapon….

Palindrome.8904:

Azel.4786:

Palindrome.8904:

You’re right, I must have imagined the super speed thing. I think my brain saw the 100% duration reduction on incoming slow-condis and combined it with the notion of moving fast.

I have no argument to support long cast times (though it’s not so much an issue in PvE). Unless we see something substantial to assuage concerns over this on Friday, I’d say that all overloads should get a break bar, not just earth. That would take away a lot of worry over the channel time. As for the time camped in one attunement? You’d have to build for that, possibly with boosts in from the as-of-yet unknown traits in the new line. Or maybe the overloads are really so strong as to compensate. Any strong claims to this stuff are really unfounded until after the PoI on Friday.

TL;DR: My reading comprehension failed me, long channels appear bad, and we really can’t make strong claims with any certainty until Friday afternoon.

Friday will tell but in my opinion, thus far, the reveal only showed that the elite specialization is bringing nothing new to the class, just same old stuff we can already do in a much worse format.

It has been pointed out, reasonably, that elementalist can already do pretty much everything at least pretty well. So the ultimate outcome of the abilities should be less of a focus than the presentation/practice, imo. That said, it’s very reasonable to question the format given that we don’t know a lot. The last piece of the interview seemed interesting, as it hinted at a couple more skills. Possibly a water skill with an interesting effect if it connects (not sure what “Shock” is but it reads like it’s related?). Sand Squall sounds like AoE protection. There’s potential for some really fun play in that paragraph, but I won’t suggest you should hop on that and be happy until we see it all laid out.

You can definitely say elementalists do support well, but it is pretty restricted to might stacking, regen and fairly limited group condi cleanse (unless you take very specific water traits). We may get a weapon here that gives some fairly potent larger AoE support without requiring a specific trait line.

Well we will require a specific trait line. Don’t forget to use the tempest stuff you need to spec into tempest, thus what is the difference in specing into water focusing on group support?

Sure now we can double the efficiency on our group support by taking 2 traits and dedicating them fully to that, but then what do you do alone? Run away?

And again, elementalist main build is a bruiser hybrid. It let’s you do a lot of stuff, but in no way it covers the room of dedicated specializations. And although you could argue that – exactly! it doesn’t cover a dedicated group support specialization – we have that already with staff and in melee we do have a good potential if we choose to focus more on the group in water trait line.

A group support was not the dedicated focus we needed, burst and condi focused were the ones we mostly needed.

I for one really wanted that our spec could have a Shortbow with an emphasis on single target DPS….

nearlight.3064:

There’s also a trait that heals you per second during each tick of charging the overload so I think the loss of signet heal is fine. Your complaint about the differences between mesmer and Ele positioning in teamfights is valid though, but I think it would still work if you had someone else who can tank a point. Also you can LoS and change terrain pretty easily on many, if not most points in the game, so you wouldn’t have to completely peel out of a fight while channeling.

Anyway we’ll see when we get video footage of the skills. It looks powerful, and you can do normal rotation spam like you do now, until you find the need to channel for a huge effecr.

You are right, there is a trait that let’s you heal. Needs to know if it will heal enough to compensate the lost sustain though.

But again, you can’t LoS and change terrain. Having someone to “cover the point” for you won’t work because you need to be on the point as well otherwise you are just using the ability to do a selfish buff – completely counter to the mechanic and we have better ways to do it today.

You have 2,5s – 5s time window in a channel to get back into the fight if you decide to step out to channel, meaning you either will need lightning flash to do it or you will need to take the Warrior’s hammer to the face – and to do so you need armor of earth – so likely, to channel, you need 2 cantrips on your utilities bar (little room for the shouts now).

And also, don’t forget, if you take tempest you lose out on another trait line, e.g., Fire. So your might stacking / fury stacking or blind spamming, etc. takes a hurt.

Don’t forget as well that in your idea of taking the tempest you are losing 3 minors and 1 Major to just have a better survivability when channeling, whereas today you use any of the 3 minors and 1 major of the trait lines almost all the time / within a very short time frame (oh and remember that the protection boon buff and the reduce the lockout of an attunement to 15s are also competing with that heal while channel).

Tempest right now is a ton of bad, the numbers will have to be really good to make it a worthwhile trade.

BlackBeard.2873:

There appears to be some interesting synergy with fresh air

I will be honest, why is there a synergy with fresh air?

I could understand if you didn’t have to sit in an attunement for a while to be able to begin channeling, but as currently shown, it just doesn’t seem to have that. Fresh Air is all about jumping back into Air, not camping it for a length of time to then be able to start doing lightning strikes similar to Glyph of Storms.

And yes, impressive how even in the elite specialization the elite skill was trash. It seems like that is an internal directive at ANET.

Palindrome.8904:

You’re right, I must have imagined the super speed thing. I think my brain saw the 100% duration reduction on incoming slow-condis and combined it with the notion of moving fast.

I have no argument to support long cast times (though it’s not so much an issue in PvE). Unless we see something substantial to assuage concerns over this on Friday, I’d say that all overloads should get a break bar, not just earth. That would take away a lot of worry over the channel time. As for the time camped in one attunement? You’d have to build for that, possibly with boosts in from the as-of-yet unknown traits in the new line. Or maybe the overloads are really so strong as to compensate. Any strong claims to this stuff are really unfounded until after the PoI on Friday.

TL;DR: My reading comprehension failed me, long channels appear bad, and we really can’t make strong claims with any certainty until Friday afternoon.

Friday will tell but in my opinion, thus far, the reveal only showed that the elite specialization is bringing nothing new to the class, just same old stuff we can already do in a much worse format.

nearlight.3064:

I play mesmer and it’s very easy to get a mantra charge off in a fight without stealth, since you shouldn’t get CCed unless you’re being directly focus fired, and even then you have the bonus 600 armor and phase retreat to help you. I works fine. I play the class so I know. And yes you will have to use positioning to recharge them in combat alot, especially with the mantra heal skill.

Elementalists should be fine because cele eles are among the last class to get focus fired in a teamfight because their sustain is so high. If you and your team are any good at teamfights charging the overload will be quite easy. I have full confine that it will work well in practice because charging mantras in combat works out so easily.

Do you know where the elementalist sustain comes from? It comes from high protection uptime and high amount of healing from Signet of Renewal, Soothing Mist, Water attune swapping and other healing skills – it does not come from a buff to toughness like mesmer mantra channeling.

Elementalist are getting protection with that minor trait, sure, but that is just a minor piece of their sustain – that can even be stripped away with a boon removal.

You still do not heal from Signet of Renewal,
Soothing mist is also unlikely if not in water (due to the time you need to be in an attunement to begin channeling)
Unless water channel you don’t get healing from water attune swapping or other healing skills while you channel.

Also, mesmer preparing mantras is a LOT different than how elementalist will need to do it:

- Mesmer tries to go for cover and stay out of the tick of the fight, because once they are done channeling they can use the mantra at the time it is most convenient.

- Elementalist will need to stay in the tick of the fight because: (a) that is how you will buff your allies; and (b) once the channel is over the effect stays rooted – i.e., if you move to the fight only when channel is over congrats, you discarded your overload for nothing.

Completely different mindset in using the ability.

Further, if you overload water and swap out, congrats for 15s you are locked out of a lot of healing severely reducing your sustain and AoE heal abilities (oh and you have those today btw).

Palindrome.8904:

Cherokeewill.7504:

Vesuvius.9874:

Azel.4786:

And pardon me for not being excited about having to sit in an attunment for X amount of time, then having to channel that attunement for 2,5s-5s hoping no one will interrupt me with the insane amount of interrupts in game, and then, if it works or if it doesn’t, being locked out from that attunement for 15s-20s.

Sure will love when I need to heal and am locked out of water or when I need to do damage and will be locked out of fire / air, sounds super!

I think you just described a play style that’s different from the current norm. Isn’t that what ANET “promised” ?

Exactly. Elementalists, with the very few exceptions of channeled skills, are a class that requires constant movement, especially with melee range weapons. The overcharge play style puts huge cooldowns on 25% of an elementalists skills and roots them in place for long periods of time as well. This is almost like the Revenant’s energy management component and a completely different playstyle then we currently have.

Edit – Had a random kitten in my post that was funny but made sentence nonsensical.

Please re-read the article. You aren’t rooted when overcharging. In fact, there is even a trait specified that gives you super speed when channeling it. It’s possible that these channels require significant movement and positioning to be useful.

What? I saw the grant swiftness one (33% movement speed) but nothing there says superspeed while channeling.

And yes, it seems you can move around when channeling and the focus seems positioning, but the faults I pointed out above still persist regardless. Staying in one attunement for X seconds (to be able to begin channeling) + the 2,5s-5s channel time is terrible with the current stuff we have from core, unless you are planning to camp fire as a staff ele, then maybe.

Kodiak.3281:

Must be nice being able to hide away and reload them.

I’m sure the mechanic where we’re forced to pile on top of other people in the middle of combat with a giant storm based effect building around us can’t possibly go wrong.

What? Don’t you know how fights work! If your enemy is charging up a powerful effect you don’t interrupt it or attack him until he finishes.

That is just common sense, come on, what game are you playing? Jeez…

Welcome to ANET’s concept of innovation and fundamentally changing the elementalist class….. but I guess with some people saying how this is so new and unique, I guess even the elementalist players did not know what the class could do today.

Morfedel.4165:

Chronomancers got a new shatter. Usingthe above logic you could say the same. Of anyof them really.

Okay, so for example, you mean that being able to play a ranged Guardian exists today and that the elite specialization did not “fundamentally” change the class right but only added minor active effects for the class mechanic?

Please do share this ranged guardian build you use then, I am most interested in trying it out.

Silverkey.2078:

The cast time of the overload is basically the charging time for mantras in mesmer, and I don’t think anyone will pretend it is does not work. We just have to see how easy and useful it is to prepare it somewhat away from the fight and then jump in the fight when the effect is ready. You may not benefit as much from the effect while loading but the final effect seems good on its own.

It appears you need to be in the attunement for a while to cast it, so it most likely means you have to be in combat for that count down to being and be able to begin the channeling. Which would be much different than how it is for the mesmer.

Also, remember the effect starts around you and then it “detaches” from you once channeling ends, so either you need lightning flash to set it up the way you mentioned it or basically running into position with a flashy “Interrupt me sign”, if at all possible to do away from combat, and then the effect will just stay rooted in place.

MiniEquine.6014:

Mostly Agree: Staff support is indeed a way to play the staff ele, but it’s currently their only viable support option. It’s long-range viable and predominantly focused on producing fields of various sorts. Warhorn is for melee-range abilities, and coupled with shouts these will provide up-close group support including AoE condi clear if using Rune of the Soldier.

We have a lot of group support in both range (predominant in staff) and in melee range:

Dagger OH – combo fields, blasts and the AoE heal
Focus – combo fields and blasts and projectile denial
Aura sharing in close range,
Soothing mist;
Elemental Attunement
Evasive Arcana

We needed no help in this department.

So what does the elite spec do?
It offers a new class ability? Sure it does.
It offers new skills? Sure it does.
It offers something we didn’t have? No! There is no “new” in this. The fact we are getting a new class ability is not a fundamental" change to the class play style if you will do the exact same thing you do today, but with a different visual.

Attune camping could be a “new play style”, but a “new play style” would be if we had a way to not be boon dependant, if we had a way to have a viable burst build. Those would be “new”.

This is just more of the same.

MiniEquine.6014:

Disagree: It’s not a similar support style at all though. A melee-ranged shout support build is not a long-range field support build.

About the new mechanic, yes, they do get a new mechanic. The attunement overcharging is the new mechanic.
- Mesmers got an F5 that allows time reversal, but F1-4 are identical
- Necromancers got a new set of shroud skills but their F1 ability type is identical
- Guardians got some updates to the active effects of their virtues but the passives are identical

They aren’t trying to reinvent the wheel here, and it would be dishonest to say that any other class revealed thus far has had anything more drastically different than the Elementalists.

No it would not be dishonest.

Right now people are thinking: “Oh man we can be such a group support specialist with this spec”.

Before people praised the ele for what? Group support it brings in Cele Ele and in Staff Ele.

Can you honestly tell me before Dragonhunter you were thinking: “Oh man I sure love playing with a ranged style on my Guardian”.

Agree: Maybe it won’t suit your play style to camp in an attunement until it overcharges; that’s perfectly okay. Maybe there will be a trait that grants you 5 stacks of stability while channeling the attunement overcharge or something; who knows? If they don’t add something though, then I would have to agree with you and the channels may go overlooked as “not worth it”.

The problem with the channel are many:

1st: You need to stay in the attunement for a while to begin it. Meaning you will burn through your long CD skills and then you will be doing mediocre effects with your AA or short CD skills.

2nd: Thus far they are not giving stability. There was nothing in the post about it, in fact, they raise consistently interrupt is a problem for the ele so they should “watch out”. The channeling is also very very long (2,5s – 5s)

3rd: Channeling or being interrupted locks you out of your attunement for a very long time (15s-20s) and restricts you from trying to channel again. Meaning all those skills are locked out for you. Remember the elementalist have, since day one, been a class that had many skills but very long cooldowns on them to compensate the “spammable nature” of the class.

The “channeling” people saying they love it so much are either only PvErs that only think about camping fire or completely ignore these big drawbacks for, thus far, no substantial gain.

Question you need to ask yourself is, do you prefer:
1. be stuck doing Dragonclaw or Flamestrike for whatever amount of time you need to be able to begin channeling;
2. do nothing but be a hub for might stacking at a rate lower than if you attune swap and blasted a fire field;
3. Lose the boon you give out by attune swapping to those around you; and
4. Run the risk of being interrupted and then being stuck in, I don’t know, water doing vapor blades?

Or you prefer to:
1. Attune swap and be able to use your best skills frequently;
2. Attune swap and share the elemental attunement boon with your allies;
3. Attune swap and blast fields to generate more might to your allies and other added effects (e.g., AoE heal on water attune, plus another if you dodge roll with Evasive Arcana as well, etc.)
4. Not being stuck in an element doing our terrible weapon 1 skills?

Either the channeling needs to be very good or people had best think about what they are giving up for what they are getting, because right now this tempest elite specialization is a terrible, terrible trade.

lordkrall.7241:

Yeah, I will log in now and protest with all my shouts I have on my Elementalist!

I suppose we are completely ignoring the fact that the Overcharged Attunements that are a thing will lock you out of said attunement for x amount of time? That will very much change how the Elementalists is played, since you can just go around aimlessly changing attunements with that and so on.

People also love to throw around the word promise everywhere. I think people need to actually learn what it means.

Great that you grasp the concept…. Elementalist had a ton of group support already, ever heard of Staff support builds??

But sure, if “new play style” for you is simply having a different animation but playing group support mechanically very similar to before, guess that must be different interpretations then because when they said new play style I assumed it meant “new mechanic way to play”, like, you know, all the other elite specializations had. -and just a side note on this, it remains to be seen but elementalists are also not getting any of the new boons or conditions, but let’s get a confirmation of this on Friday – which again was something they “promised” they would give to the classes with the specializations / new elites.

And pardon me for not being excited about having to sit in an attunment for X amount of time, then having to channel that attunement for 2,5s-5s hoping no one will interrupt me with the insane amount of interrupts in game, and then, if it works or if it doesn’t, being locked out from that attunement for 15s-20s.

Sure will love when I need to heal and am locked out of water or when I need to do damage and will be locked out of fire / air, sounds super!

And aimlessly changing attunements? Dude you have to carefully swap them so you are never locked into one with all skills on cooldown and so that your swap is actually beneficial at the time (pop protection, heal, interrupts, do damage, etc.). Being in one attunement with a long cooldown on skills is terrible and often gets you killed!

Oh and on the word promise…. yeah I always thought it meant: “A declaration assuring that one will or will not do something;”, so pardon me for thinking that when ANET said they will give us new play styles that was a promise… please enlighten me on the meaning of the word.

I am extremely kittened off about another lie from ANET with the reveal on Tempest!

So when making the big fuss about elite specializations we got this little gem:

From the wiki:
“Specializations are a rework of the current trait line mechanic, and will introduce a new Elite specialization that fundamentally changes the way each profession plays (….)”

And then in the interview (http://www.tentonhammer.com/news/guild-wars-2/guild-wars-2-tempest-revealed), besides all the other absurdities in what is coming, we got this perfect phrase:

“Although the principals of the elementalist’s play will remain largly intact(…)”

And then in comes a long list of group support focused abilities, i.e., what elementalists have in abundance, which proves the point in the comment above.

Where is our promised "fundamental change to the way each profession plays "

Was that just another empty ANET promise? What gives?

And seriously, can elementalists have a decent elite for once in their lifetime??? Why give us just a poor version of mesmer Alacrity stuff in an elite form?

this is not a warhorn vs sword post. This is about lack of innovation and broken promises

WARNING this is not a Sword vs Warhorn post, it is a principal of elite specialization post.

This elite is utter kitten!!!! WTF!!!!! I am really kittened off.

Seriously, I can’t believe people here are excited to play the exact same kitten we have been doing since day one!!!

Take a look at this sentence:

“though the principals of the elementalist’s play will remain largly intact…..”

And then take a look at what ANET said when they mentioned the elite specializations:

“a new Elite specialization that fundamentally changes the way each profession plays "

This is bullkitten and you guys are praising it…. you are so stuck in your mindset of playing the exact same way you don’t want to have any variation with your class…

Geez now I can add group support…. Seriously, just because it wasn’t the best build in Mettabattle doesn’t mean we weren’t very good at it already. We have a ton of AoE damage and a ton of AoE support, they just spoon feed you more of the same and you think it is amazing.

And then, to top it all off, that elite!!! Seriously, can Elementalist have a good elite for once in its lifetime???

This specialization is a terrible and completely lacks innovation! It is shameful that this is the crap elementalists get!

It just once again proves the point that people are only interested in graphics and not mechanic, so when a pretty image comes around in the Friday reveal people will be like “oh so new and amazing” and then when the expansion kicks in people will just once again be commenting on how “eles have no viable build besides D/D on PvP and staff for PvE, it blows!”

Seriously hope to see everyone of you praising this bullkitten spec running it in WvW and PvP, will love the free kills.

Daniel Handler.4816:

read the first sentence
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleave

Read my post…..

Daniel Handler.4816:

You realise cleave is an aoe right? I could easily use your logic and say that you guys just want cone of cold in cleave form instead of cone form when both achieve the same effect.

Nor did I say I want aoes that do exactly what mesmers can. If you were paying attention at all they invented new aoes for heart of thorns, things that only the specializations have. Guardians can summon a shield in front of their body that moves with them. I assume tempest will summon a storm that moves with them. I assume from the singularity datamine that the new thing for ele is staying in attunements.

Cleave and AoE are very different I am sorry. If you want to say that cleave is AoE then almost every single skill in the game is classified as an AoE skill.

AoE is meant to hit people in a large sized area in which you generally target, be it directional based (line in front of you) or ground target (circle area). Cleave is different, cleave may have an “area of effect”, meaning the area it hits, but that is just part of the mechanic of the game, or did you want to have a skill that you have a tiny little box that can hit the target?

And ok, let’s work with your example then. What you want is to send out waves of attack in front of you that target the enemies, fantastic.

That still does not resolve the issue with lack of cleave alternatives for a true melee elementalist.

That is still the very same style of AoE skill, but slightly different in that you now have more limitations to it (no variable target area to allow you better positioning, you now have a skill that would require same level as your enemy or a clear “ramp” – e.g., if you are over a higher ground that only has a drop, your skill is worthless if it is a line target).

And yes, sure we don’t have something that follows us around when we cast so that we can become a “hub”, except for our healing mist that emanates from us when in water, but you want to get a wall that blocks ranged attacks instead of having a large AoE of projectile denial (Focus Air 3) or reflect (Focus Earth 4)? That unique and a good trade?

vox.9027:

@Daniel Handler Well the daze can be used to interrupt pressure on your allies/stomp denial and the locust cripple makes for a good peel but being an Elementalist I hope we’ll see something more in the way of Aura/Boon support

Uhhhhhhhh……

So you just want Poweful Aura, Elemental Attunement, field generation and blasting, group healing and group cleansing of condition?

Wait, isn’t that pretty much a description of what we have today?

And here I thought we were meant to get new play styles with elite specializations and not just more of the same.

Laraley.7695:

Starfleck.8392:

I’m excited for more storms! hehe

Seems like the only people excited about wh are the ones who would like to call storms.

Go count how many skills already alow ele to do that.

Exactly, I seriously don’t understand why there is a minority that is excited with the prospect of playing the exact same style for another long period (until a new spec is made) – possibly even in a dumbed down format with a likely mechanic that promotes not using your class mechanic, but just attune camping.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Yes do look at chronomancer
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tides_of_Time

Do you have any aoe remotely close to that? Phoenix maybe. Think phoenix but better.

Great, you just proved my point.

Look at it this way. Did the mesmer have a lot of AoEs before or was that something the mesmer lack? They lack and ANET came and gave them that option.

Now you come here and say you just want more AOEs that do exactly what the mesmer can do…. so you either just want to play a mesmer or you just want to have more AoE stuff to be able to, again, do what we do all day for almost 3 years but slightly different and with new animations.

Specializations are meant to bring new and exciting ways to play a class in a manner that you didn’t consider before – what you want is exactly what we have today. So excuse me if I don’t jump into that hype train.

Oh and a lot of people are also going on and on about the fact that ANET said that those classes that are getting OH weapons will have “cool stuff” to compensate.

You guys seem to forget that such comment was directed to the classes that would be getting “less stuff” than others, i.e., only 2 weapon skills. Elementalists do not fall into that category as they will get 8 weapon skills, 1 heal skill, 3 utilities and 1 elite.

So thus far we are slightly tied with the Guardian – which is getting 5 weapon skills, 3 new virtue skills, 1 heal, 3 utilites and 1 elite. And we “lose” to necro which is getting 10 weapon skills, 1 heal, 3 utilites and 1 elite.

And again, if our new mechanic is that singularity crap we jump past the others and get 4 new skills with our mechanic (the “pulsing effect” of our attunements).

So yeah, don’t go around thinking you will get “compensated” for getting an OH…

What disappoints me in this topic is that no one is thinking a new style of skill and only wanting more of what we have, so how would this bring “new and exciting ways of playing your class”?…..

- A lot of people come here wanting to have fields and/or storm style AoEs. This is literally what we have EVERYWHERE!

- Both Dagger OH and Scepter OH bring with them fire fields.

- Staff has a ton of fields / blasts

- A ton of our skills bring “Storm” / “Barrage” style AoE (Staff, Glyph, Conjurers)

- We have several AoE skills.

So would Warhorn innovate with this? Maybe if it brings mid range AoE in off-hand what we don’t have with Dagger OH or Focus, but then what is the use of that for Dagger? Where is the “new and exciting play style” if it will just give you a new AoE style of play which we already have? You got tired of pb AoE or long range AoE and now you want a mid range AoE option as “new and unique”?
Then we have the discussion of it having a ton of group support….

We have so much of this everywhere as well. Heck one of the staple Elementalist thing is boon sharing one – we even have the ability to share our auras now…. One of the big plus of Cele Ele is the group support it brings. Staff also brings a ton of it with its plethora of fields and blasts…. And you guys want more of that? Why??? Where the heck is the innovation in just once again doing group support but now slightly different…..

Look at Chronomancer – it really brings a new way for you to consider your mesmer, a ton of party buffs, wells, the new mechanic, etc. It completely changed the mesmer and baffled everyone.

Look at Guardian – in a swing it came with what the guardian desperately lacked, good range options. And it did that in an interesting way.

Look at Necro – the shouts IMO were poor, but the GS and new Shroud skill, wow completely changed the necro.

And here I come disappointed as hell with Warhorn and people are hoping that it will just be more of the same? Like really? Your whole drawn to the specialization is “Hey I want to play the exact same way I do now but with new animations!”???

To me it will just be even more kittened if the Warhorn is just more of the exact same we have…. and if the singularity data mine proves true, well yeah, it will be just dumb.

So this is not another topic bashing Tempest – yeah I hate that we are getting the warhorn and all like a lot do, but this topic is focused only on the teaser pic.

Chronomancer Teaser:
http://dulfy.net/2015/04/27/gw2-mesmer-elite-specialization-teaser/
Dragonhunter Teaser:
http://dulfy.net/2015/05/04/gw2-guardian-elite-specialization-teaser/
Reaper Teaser:
http://dulfy.net/2015/05/11/gw2-necromancer-elite-specialization-teaser-released/
Tempest Teaser:
http://dulfy.net/2015/07/20/gw2-elementalist-elite-specialization-teaser/

Man the quality of the other teaser pics really impressed – perhaps the one most lacking was the necro one, but that one was still interesting.

The Tempest teaser pic, however, seems so poor in comparison you can’t even make out what is in the picture, e.g, can you even tell her her right hand properly, compare torsos from mesmer and ele’s picture, etc.

The art feels really lacking – not saying I could do a better job – but couldn’t a better job have been done?

SkyShroud.2865:

old video but still applicable

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezVy-zLUq6g

Hahaha that was gold!

Unlike the WvW which is a disaster right now…. jesus…. man I think we should post on the bug forums that apparently there is a bug that prohibits developers from seeing the WvW forums, only possible explanation for what is happening,

And you know what will be the worst part? On Friday ANET will come and say this was a great success and everyone loved it and it was awesome and they will do more events like these.

Oh man…. no offense but I am going to bed as things get worst by the minute.

But not to just bad mouth, the biggest problem with your suggestion IMO is that you are suggesting mantras for in combat use…. the biggest advantage of mantras for mesmer is that they are instant cast once you have them ready and resetting them during a fight is something you shouldn’t have to because you are basically defenseless and dead weight during that time – not to mention easily interrupted.

Now I get that you want to make something that doesn’t make you dead weight during the channeling time, but what you offer is not enough to offset what we can already do with weapon skills while doing good damage to our foes and, most importantly, without needing to run around with someone else to be useful.

Perhaps just not the Song of the Tempest which would be the most insane thing ever – imagine someone casts a fire field and in you come and blast that fire field 10+ times…. or even worse, someone casts a water field and you blast it 10+ times.

Alurazle.5430:

Someone better pick up that phone…cause I called it CONFIRMED WARHORN YASS!

Jeez, thanks…. Can we go after you with torches and pitchforks now?

Knighthonor.4061:

GlitchyBat.3682:

Heart Attunement or bust

This!!!!!

No heart is fail.

Nope, the class mechanic is likely going to be singularity…. Promoting attunement camping…

Feels bad man….

I bought the ultimate…. ugh…. feeling major regret since I saw the teaser pic.

Gaile Gray.6029:

I really encourage y’all to turn into Points of Interest on Friday on our Twitch channel. They’ll be showing the warhorn and skills and all that good stuff, and then you can better get a view of how it works as the Elementalist’s elite specialization.

Countdown for heartbreak…. this spec will blow and turn into the HoT joke….

hazenvirus.8154:

Kodiak.3281:

I think my signature video is more relevant to how most of us feel about the Warhorn.

I think that should be the sound of eles new warhorn skills.

Would complement our joke spec perfectly.

So I have been out working during the whole day, but it seems like ANET completely ignored the countless requests from the community to stop this event earlier or at least shift this to EoTM only, or, at the bare minimum, fix the Golem Buff exploit so that if we have to live the horror of this event, we at least live it without exploits….

But nothing, nothing at all?

Man, at this point I wonder if ANET even knows they have a forum in their website…..

Laraley.7695:

So what? If they actually botehred to read the forums, they would figure out there were so many people who were against the idea of warhorn and there are so many people disappointed now. I preordered, too and I wish I wouldn’t have, a waste of money. After this I’m not really feeling like playing the class nor game, because it’s the same old stuff. I don’t care what skills warhorn has, it doesn’t matter since it won’t change the playstyle at all. Just another offhand that goes with one viable mainhand the class has. If ANet was any smart and knew something about the class, they wouldn’t have picked an offhand, sorry.

Pretty much this. This is just strike two after the Golem Rush fiasco…. in which again ANET simply ignored its community because its not like they give them any money – oh wait they do but they have already given it by hastily pre-purchasing, so hahahahaha what a bunch of….

So yeah, it’s like that south park episode said, you know what you get when you pre-order a game?