Guild Wars 2

Tim.6450:

I think you missed what I said I mean. For instance I meant that ele would offer things like boon removal/corruption, stealth, aoe stability… . The elementalist has a diverse set of tools already they’re just spread out over the weapons so to really create a “new role” I believe that the ele would have to take elements that right now felt out of their toolkit. Which bothers me a bit.

Also has fresh air spec not been a mid range single target dps spec?

Well, getting things that the class didn’t offer before is the whole premises of the elite specializations no?

And look at mesmer, what is stopping the dev team from developing a whole new boon/condi or mechanic with the Tempest and thus offering it a new role?

And fresh air needs changes to make it viable, today it is not particularly due to how poor the scepter is. S/Wh could be the thing for this elite specialization.

Tim.6450:

The question I ask is can the elementalist be given a new role without threading too much in other professions territory? Also I do see the appeal of the ele specialisations instead of adding something new, specialize in the aspects it already has. Moving a bit away of that jack of all stick? I mean base ele has no fully specialized weapon so that could be ‘fixed’ with specialisations.

That being said overloads seems a bit strange for an ele. Base ele is designed and balanced aroun swapping attunements and overloading seems to contradict this completely. Maybe if they reduced time requirements (like the cast times lower and the initial requirement gone) for a burst of boons and damage (raw or condition) I could see this work.

There is nothing wrong with threading in another class role. It will just play differently and people can choose what they want to play best.

In any case, there are other roles that the Elementalist can’t do that it could do with the Elite Specialization, such as a Mid range single target DPS or a frontline ZvZ style.

First of all:

Perfect =/= without weakness.

So yes we can have a perfectly balanced class / elite specialization, but that doesn’t mean people are asking for an elite specialization that would win all 1vX all the time.

Second of all:

Speaking from an elementalist perspective, Elementalists have a LOT to complain about the new elite specialization and the main point is that the elite specialization does not deliver on the key promise of ANET: providing an entirely new role for the class.

ANET offered an elite specialization that is a melee brawler / group support specialization, that not only fails at this role, but is also exactly the same role of D/D . And a lot of the elementalist don’t want to have the exact same role that is meta right now added as an elite specialization because we want an entirely new role for the class to branch out with the elementalist.

We want our entirely new role – then, after we have that, we can look at numbers and functionality.

And yes, it is a beta right now, which then means it is the perfect time to complain and point the flaws because it is the best time to get ANET to change stuff, particularly in the case of the Tempest in which the main issue lies in the concept.

Oh and so people don’t confuse things:

THIS IS NOT A CRY FOR A NEW WEAPON. WARHORN CAN WORK. THE CONCEPT OF TEMPEST IS THE ISSUE REGARDLESS OF THE WEAPON GIVEN TO IT.

(Putting in caps because people often ignore this when they see any post bashing the Tempest)

Copying this here from the guardian forum due to the truthiness of the statement.

Test.8734:

But it’s kinda funny, right?

Chronomancer & Reaper:

• Popular specializations (see the poll that was posted in the HoT forum)
• Get a nice list of BWE feedback changes
• The same developer
• And said developer bothers to post in the forum of the other two specializations, too

Tempest & Hunter:

• Almost universally hared (see the same poll, or anwhere else really)
• Names don’t fit the specialization (“high level” my small cat)
• List of BWE feedback changes…? MIA.
• The same developer
• And said developer has not posted in the specializations’ forums after the BWE

ArenaNet, could you please let Robert design all other specializations, please?

Just add though that it doesn’t have to be the same guy working on Chronomaner and Reaper to not overload him, but it needed to be someone that is actually engaged, understand the classes he/she is working on and talks with the community.

Not saying to fire the Tempest / DH dev guy, but just give him another position and put someone that is more engaged and understands these classes better in charge.

rotten.9753:

Adrian Guardian.9480:

I left the brawler/support discussion to others because it’s not a role I’m looking for (D/D already has it…). Mid-line support is what I’d like. Staff+overloads+shouts is mid-line support/nuking unlike normal staff which is back-line (dungeons don’t count). I wish scepter+warhorn would fill that role too, but the problem lies with scepter.

sidenote: scerevisiae’s stormlike moving overloads is a cool idea, no idea if it’d be better or worse than currrent mechanic, could be fun, I like water globe on warhorn.

How do you use overloads at mid range?

Indeed, how do you use a 180 radius fire overload at mid range?

@Adrian Guardian.9480

This new post makes it sound like you agree that the issue is a design/concept rather than just numbers.

Overloads were designed as a melee brawler/support ability. A.k.a what we already have, so now that you are talking about wanting it to be different (mid range ability), well that is a redesign and not just a number issue.

Test.8734:

Not really “2 hours ago” now.

But it’s kinda funny, right?

Chronomancer & Reaper:

• Popular specializations (see the poll that was posted in the HoT forum)
• Get a nice list of BWE feedback changes
• The same developer
• And said developer bothers to post in the forum of the other two specializations, too

Tempest & Hunter:

• Almost universally hared (see the same poll, or anwhere else really)
• Names don’t fit the specialization (“high level” my small cat)
• List of BWE feedback changes…? MIA.
• The same developer
• And said developer has not posted in the specializations’ forums after the BWE

ArenaNet, could you please let Robert design all other specializations, please?

Not a main guardian, but I just wanted to say that this is absolutely right.

While DH and Tempest (Tempest the one standing in the worst spot) are so constantly bashed in the forums, the developer doesn’t even talk to the players or anything and continues in hiding. (Get ready for some detached responses from the feedback when we finally get some who knows when)

It would certainly be nice to have a developer that is actually engaged, understand the classes he is working on and talks with the community. Doesn’t have to be the same guy working on Chronomaner and Reaper to not overload him, but it needed to be someone else indeed.

Mattmatt.4962:

Well, since we’re talking about word-play

“T’empestes” in french stand for “you suck”, is it a coincidence ?

Brilliant.

Guess we found the reason then. This is the only possible explanation.

Adrian Guardian.9480:

Don’t equate tempest=warhorn. Overloads are what bring something new (having a reason to stay in an attunement for ~8s), and they’ve just number problems.

You missed the point completely and I hope ANET doesn’t miss it like you did. In fact, you ignored so much in this topic you even ignored me saying that Warhorn is not the issue.

Overloading an attunement changes you from your standard rotation? Sure it dos.

Problem is Tempest, including with Overload, does not bring a new role.

Your comment states that you just want it to be worth it to use overload vs. doing our rotations to do a role of a “brawler / group support”.

Again, if you want that then you just want Tempest to fight over the same role with D/D cele ele and, naturally, the best one at the job will prevail. So either Tempest will be weaker at it and most people won’t bother with it (a complete failure for a new feature being added) or it will be stronger and break the balance (also a complete failure for a new feature being added).

The problem is much more than a numbers issue. Again, it is a concept/design issue.

The more I read this topic the more I think this name deserves a justification. We have nothing “Tempest” like in our animations / skill styles.

Zxavier Augistine.7312:

snip

I think this needs some “back to the drawing board” for the dev team.

I am not saying they should just give the sword or another weapon to appease the masses and call it a day (I was personally rooting for a shorbow btw).

But I agree with you that they need to find a side grade – i.e., a new role – to provide the class with. Tempest fails at this completely by trying to compete with the role of D/D cele ele.

Can they do it with warhorn? Sure they can. Any weapon has the potential of providing the side grade / new role. But they are still very far from achieving this.

Lyger.5429:

I’ll never understand why people like the concept of an auramancer. The whole mechanic promotes face tanking and unskillful play. It basically screams “hey hit me so I can get the benefits of this aura surrounding me”. That just seems boring to me.

Yes, auras by themselves are a passive style, but if the traits carried with them some active mechanic (e.g., the healing on applying aura) they could become a bit more active style instead of just spam them all. Who knows? Auramancer died too young.

Yes, the introduction of Auramancer builds were an interesting concept, that has failed due to the fact that Aura traits are terribly spread out. They should have focused them on Arcane trait line as a way to compete with Elemental Attunement / Evasive Arcana style.

If they had included Powerful Aura as an Arcane GM that shared the auras and extended the durations of auras, and then Adept and Master having boon on aura trait options, we would have a tough time choosing to pick Auras or standard Elemental Attunement / Evasive Arcana style.

Why they didn’t do this I will never understand.

Rebound needs to be replaced with the ability to slap a utility in your elite slot.

Done, you solve the issue of elementalist not having an Elite worth a slot and get people wanting to trait Tempest just to be able to use their Elite key bind button (which most elementalists probably don’t even know what it currently is).

So I decided to make this topic in hopes that when the elementalist dev comes back from vacation (as rumors are saying) and decides to reads 1-2 posts and to throw some mediocre numbers at us as “fixes” and call it a day, he hopefully reads this and stops to pay more attention at the topics around here and actually addresses the core issue that makes Tempest so terrible.

So here it goes:

The problem with Tempest is not a numbers issue. It is a CONCEPT issue.

How so? The key problem is that Tempest is being designed as a “melee brawler / group support” specialization, but that is exactly what D/D cele elementalist is all about.

You can come into this topic and say that “oh, but Tempest is more focused in group support and auras rather than damage”.

But this completely ignores the fact that these are options we already have today. If you want you can just trait powerful aura to share auras and shift your stats to more Healing power – done, you are now spec focused on:

- boon sharing (Elemental Attunement for might, protection, swiftness and regen and blasting fire fields for added might);
- Aura sharing (Powerful Auras);
- group healing (several healing abilities); and
- party condi cleansing.

Why nobody uses such a group support focused trait option?
Simple, it is less effective than standard D/D cele ele Water/Arcane/Fire or Water/Arcane/Earth. Which are able to solo better and still provide good group support – i.e., all of the above except aura share.

Oh, but tempest comes in to fix just that. It will make sharing auras and healing the party even better! And here we reach the problem. When you think this you are essentially recognizing that you are getting the exact same play style, but wanting it to be better. So what you are asking now is not a new role for the class, but a buff to what we have today with D/D cele ele.

Asking for this buff is terrible because D/D cele ele is already in the borderline between great and OP. So if you get an improved version of D/D cele ele, ANET will come swinging the nerf bat so kitten the elementalist you will even forget you had one in your account.

So please, focus your attention in trying to get ANET to realize this terrible mistake in creating an elite specialization that competes with the same play-style we have today. Help them understand that what we want is something that brings a new role to the class so that we have more options to focus on.

Tl/dr: Tempest today is just competing with D/D cele ele in the exact same role (brawler / group support). That is bad. Tempest should open a new role that is interesting and enticing to play and not be just a better or worse version of D/D cele ele.

Shinji.2063:

For me it is quite clear why they dropped sword, Hot is facing major crunch time. So eles got the short end of the stick and got lame warhorn cause

1. Cut down on animations, only have to do 1 with warhorn.
2. Less skills to worry about.
3. Warhorn is easier to balance since it just gives us more of the same as we already have as an ele.

3 being the biggest point since swords would of given us access to a new playstyle that would of needed extensive balance time since we are the hardest class in the game for the anet devs to balance for some reason.

1 & 3 really kitten me off on the Tempest.

No. 1 because, aside from the utilities shouts (rebound is garbage in all aspects), the animations were terrible.

That little ball of lightning in Air 5 is pathetic, how a lot of the overloads animations don’t work with larger characters is ridiculous, Water overload could use something better like meditating rather than the person just sitting there in the bubble and Air overload looks so dumb with the way you move around looking upwards with your hand raised.

So frustrated we get those, when the other classes animations looked amazing! DH looked the coolest of them all IMO. Reaper shroud was also so awesome I envied necros everytime I faced one in PvP.

I then look at the Charr with its kitten and tail outside of the bubble or riding the air when doing the Earth overload and it is just face palm worthy.

Oh and the fact that all warhorn abilities are almost all just blowing into the warhorn and a barely visible effect comes out, wow so awesome…. can’t believe that was actually praised in the POI.

No. 3 however is my biggest issue with the class, I remember when I made a topic on this at the HoT forums right after the preview interview came out and a lot of people came as the defense force saying that I should wait and try it before complaining that it didn’t change what the elementalist currently has.

Well here we are, we have tested it and lo and behold we have the exact same play-style we have been playing since forever (melee brawler / group support), who would have guessed…

I certainly hope ANET recognizes this issue and actually works to make a new play style for us. Tempest problem is not a numbers issue, it is a concept issue.

Kaleban.9834:

Compare that to Chronomancer, which ENHANCES the Shatter playstyle and Illusion generating of Mesmers, and adds options like Alacrity for skill recharge, Continuum Split for resets, heck even auto phantasm re-summoning!

I mean, seriously, one need only look at a skill like “Rebound.” to see how ANet and Karl are running out of ideas.

They have 0 ideas and that is a given. Just look at how Elementalist (even with Tempest) is getting literally none of the new boons or conditions introduced since the Specialization patch and in the HoT. It is the only class that will get stuck with the only the old boons and conditions….

Frankly, as someone else pointed out in another topic, the problem with the Tempest is that it is rushed and has 0 synergy with anything else, including with the stuff the Tempest introduces. Heck it even had a style of art in the preview and a name of a storm caller but it doesn’t even call any epic storms with its skills!

I am not even going to talk about how absurd it is that the elite specialization is just competing directly with the D/D cele ele, who is the current standard for brawler / group support, but let’s see:

- Overcharge does not work at all with the current skill set of our MH Dagger (which are poor in damage and utility) or in view of the fact that melee builds are required to swap between attunements constantly to survive, particularly with the need to constantly generate boons and have access to the defensive abilities that are key for the elementalist to survive;

- Warhorn skills bring more fields, with long cooldowns, but the class has less ways of blasting those fields!

- Shouts give auras to the whole group, so what is the point of having Powerful Aura in Water trait line?

- Our elite skill is thrown in the mix as what looks to be a mesmer reject skilll.

- Our traits should have a lot of consolidations between them. The traits just scream that the lack of ideas made Karl split them just to fill the needed quantity of traits.

Back on topic, yes OP had an interesting idea, but the problem is that due to the amount of work this would require it would be simpler to give us a new weapon entirely rather than having something akin to a conjurer style introduced with the Overload.

morrolan.9608:

Spot on we have a melee range option, we need more ranged options. We have access to a larger pool of abilities than say mesmer but they have more effective ranged option than us.

Although I would have loved a Shortbow elite specialization to give us better ranged options, after recently rewatching RWBY in preparation for Season 3 I can’t stop thinking how awesome it would be to get a Weiss Schnee style of play.

Imagine even having the standard sword being a two handed for the elementalist? kitten that would be awesome.

Malchior.5732:

It’s funny how the Chronomancer got a new boon and a new condition to play with, Reaper got Stab, DH got whatever, and the Tempest actually gets LESS conditions(No bleeds on ANY of the new stuff…) and no new boons.
It’s also funny how it “encourages” boon sharing with the Warhorn, but barely gives us any boons to use and the ones you DO get run out while you Overload.

How can a spec have so little synergy with itself?

It’s called pulling a Karl.

Vinteros Asteano.1209:

Fire overload is a tornado.

True, forgot about it as most of the times I didn’t even see it properly because the animation would “build up” from ground to top, was so hard to see due to being so transparent and I usually got interrupted in the first second or two.

Ghotistyx.6942:

Tempest is fully themed around creating storms. Both warhorn and shouts invoke that theme.

And Tempest didn’t necessarily scream dps any more than it does aoe, which is exactly what it does. Crazy aoe effects.

Did we play the same elite specialization?

The only shout that had, remotely, a “Storm creating” animation was Eye of the Storm, and even then it was just a lightning strike that is it.

“Flash freeze” had no storm animation, it could have been a snow storm or something, but nothing.

“Shock and Aftershock” was an “earthquake-esque” animation.

“Feel the burn” and “Wash the Pain Away” had no “Storm callling” animation.

And lol at Rebound having anything close to a storm.

Warhorn had 2 skills that had any animation that would be similar to a Storm, and that was Air 4 and Earth 5. Both, however, looked more like breezes of wind than anything else.

Seriously, this is a matter that there are no “Tempest” style storms in the animations at all. Thus the name does not fit the skills animations in the slightest.

rotten.9753:

Indeed but then it would have been even worse.

Yes, it would require more work because they would need to fix scepter… but who knows, we can dream about it, no?

Xillllix.3485:

In my opinion there seems to be something lost between the concept arts for the tempest and the end result, which doesn’t have much range and lack the epicness of large storms. With a name like Tempest almost everyone expected the largest AoE skills in the game.

I agree whole heartily with this. The name doesn’t fit with the skills at all.

We literally only have a few breeze like animations (Air 4 and Earth 5) and one actual storm (Air overload) that is very weak in the “Tempest” feel both mechanically and animation wise.

Tempest is a terrible name for the specialization if these are supposed to be the skills we will get.

Now back to the mechanics discussion, I certainly hope they address this complete overlap of role between Tempest and D/D cele ele. We want, desperately, to play a new role with our elementalists and not just have a weaker or stronger version of the role we play today.

If elementalist will really only get an OH weapon, then it needs to be paired with the Scepter and not with the Dagger. This way, they could do a specialization that was focused on mid range damage and crowd control skills (interrupts, immobilize, knockdowns, etc.)

Then we would have the options of:
Long range nuke / group support: Staff
Mid range damage / control: Scepter / Warhorn
Close range brawler / group support: Dagger / Dagger
Close range brawler / tank: Dagger / Focus
Burst: Scepter / Focus

The biggest problem with Tempest is that it competes directly with D/D cele ele for the exact same role. Worst of all is the D/D cele ele is in the edge between well balance and OP (I would say the burning output is too excessive right now).

So you know what will happen when you just add something to compete directly for the same spot?

Either it will need to be better for people to play it and, thus, it will make the standard D/D ele OP – which nobody wants.

Or it will be worst than D/D cele ele and nobody will want to play it – thus being a completely worthless inclusion in the game.

So going on and on about just changing numbers as the solution for the spec is terrible because that will not solve anything. It is essentially just asking for a buff to D/D cele ele.

Tempest needs to be designed to fit a different role so that it does not compete for the same spot as D/D cele ele (thus not having to fight in being better than D/D cele ele to get people to play it), but rather get people to play it with the allure of bringing a new role.

In saying this, I would add that if the real idea is really to keep as an OH weapon, the choice of paring it with Dagger is terrible, it should pair with Scepter.

I was wondering this myself. The only “storm” is the Air overload, and even then it is very modest animation-wise.

Everything else literally has no storm effect, heck even Air 4 and Earth 5 are nothing more than light breeze animations….

The Great Al.2546:

I doubt that will happen.

I’m worried that this will be more about number tweaking and less about fundamental changes that would truly make this a new role.

True, that is another very big fear that I have.

From what I have been following, Tempest was the only elite specialization that had predominantly bad reception and, most importantly, was the only one I saw having questioned on the delivery of the advertised “entirely new role” .

If this “new role” issue doesn’t get addressed it will be a big let down as well.

Hope this means that they are looking into a lot of changes.

Would be very disappointed if we get a topic saying “Yeah, we are very happy that the comments have been mostly positive and we are confident we are in a very good spot with the Tempest!”

People seriously need to understand the difference between “Entirely new play style” (ANET’s own words btw) and “new skills”.

New skills means only that by pressing a button your character now activates a different ability that has a difference between another, e.g., it can have a different damage, range, utility, etc.

Does Tempest provide new skills? Obviously it does.

But an entirely new play style is going well beyond just giving new skills, it is giving tools to make you play your class in a substantially different way. E.g., a completely new role or niche for your class that it didn’t have before.

So what we have thus far?

Tempest is advertised by ANET as: “Effective close-range fighters who can support their allies on the front lines”. This is literally the same thing as the D/D cele ele build!

Does this means that you can’t enjoy it? Not at all, you certainly can enjoy it. But what it does mean is that ANET is offering us the exact same play style we have today!

Doing this is a HORRIBLE idea for two reasons.

First, because it is completely against their statement that the elite specializations are meant to give you a new play style.

Second, it is simply bad strategy. Why? Because if you offer the same thing that we have today, to have people use it you need to make it better in someway to make it compete and “best” the other one.

If we were talking of something that you need to buy, sure people could just pay “less” for the worst option and be content with it, but in this case you don’t have to spend a dime to change specializations so the majority of people will only pick the one that is the “best” of the two.

So either ANET will offer us a gimmick elite specialization that will see players running it on the first couple of days of the expansion and then discarding it completely to go back to D/D cele ele, or we will end up with a buffed version of D/D cele ele (which is something the whole forums doesn’t want).

What we want is a new play style, but the Tempest does not offer that at all.

This may sound crazy, but you know what I would like?

Fire Overload:
Channel: 2s
Effect during channel: Same animation but you release only smoke. Creates smoke field centered on you (moves with you) that applies blindness (1s per pulse) to enemies and might to allies (2 stacks per pulse).
Effect after channel: Smoke bursts into a tornado of fire. Causes damage equal to a Burning Speed and applies 3 stacks of burn to enemies in blast area. Allies gain 3 stacks of might and fire aura (5s). Leaves 5s tornado of fire that works as a fire field that causes burn (1 stack per pulse) and does damage (slightly lower than Staff 2) to enemies.

Air Overload:
Channel: 1s
Targetable AoE: Range 1500, radius 360.
Effect after channel:
- Duration 5s. Enemies in area are struck by lightning (same as currently, including damage dealt).
- During the 5s you may activate the overload again by pressing F3 (1/2s cast time) to teleport to the area doing damage equal to a RtL and stunning enemies for 1.5s. Allies in the area gain shocking aura if used like this.

Water:
Channel: 2s
Effect during channel: Animation completely reworked, it becomes a dance movement ala The Last Airbender when water bending. Enemies in the area have 1 boon converted into a condi and allies have 1 condi converted to boon per pulse. Heals allies per pulse (around 1k per pulse).
Effect after channel: A whirlpool forms on the ground centered on you. Allies heal 3k, clear 2 condi and gain regeneration. Enemies are pulled to center of whirlpool (works as an interrupt) and suffer fumble, chill and vulnerability (5 stacks).

Earth attunement:
Channel time: 4s (but may be shorter)
Effect during channel: Animation similar to as it is now. Gain superspeed during channeling. Does damage (similar Ring of Earth) and bleed (3 stacks) per pulse to enemies around the tempest. Allies in the area gain protection and stability (2 stacks).
Effect after channel (or if triggered before): Animation changed to jumping down (similar to Earthquake) and the Tempest bursts the rocks. Does damage (about double of Ring of Earth). Knockdown to enemies in the area and applies bleeding (4 stacks). Allies gain protection and stability.

Thanks for the votes guys, updated up to Zention.1849.

Thanks for votes guys, updated up to Rahveiz.7461.

And as mentioned before, you have the right to have any opinion you want and express it freely in this topic. You may love it, you may hate it or be indifferent.

The goal of this topic is to check the overall receptiveness of the Tempest and what is most direly holding it back or what is pulling it forward and, hopefully, help ANET to identify critical areas to focus and then, perhaps, in the next Beta Weekend we be discussing polishing only few small stuff. (right now the ratings seem to indicate good number of fields that require a lot of attention and some who aren’t equally pressing).

thanks for votes guys.

Updated up to emendez.3705

Thanks for the votes guys, all contributions are appreciated.

It is your opinion and it is just as valuable as all others.

Updated to Jhoul.6923

Thanks for votes guys, updated up to joaoantunes.5367

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Switching the scale around from 1 being best to 1 being worst between these 2 polls seems an ill choice because it could give a few false positives by people voting the wrong way.

Yeah, I debated doing that, but I felt that before it was mixing some ppl up so I changed it. Hopefully with the new warning sign this won’t be repeated and it is more visually clear to give a 1 out of 5 as a bad score rather than the other way around.

Thanks for votes guys, updated up to Mem no Fushia.7604.

Thanks, will use your method then. It does seem more detailed and better representative.

In marketing, one of the recommended approaches when launching a new product is checking its receptiveness by your target audience.

I am no expert in the arts of marketing, but when the Tempest reveal came up I did this topic under such logic: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/Let-s-Vote-ONLY-Tempest/first

In it, we saw that the community gave an average rating of 38.54% score after 72 votes.

Now that we got a chance to try the elite specialization, share your thoughts using the vote system below and let’s see how the BW1 changed the community views:
NOTE: GRADE SYSTEM INVERTED FROM THE OTHER TOPIC, MAKE SURE TO USE BELOW
5) Love it! Wouldn’t change a thing!
4) It was good, needs just a few tweaks here and there.
3) It wasn’t good, but it wasn’t terrible. Needs some fixes.
2) It was bad, needs a lot of fixes.
1) It was horrible. Scratch/rework it completely.

Please vote in the following categories: (You don’t have to vote in all, but it is recommended)

Votes up to Zention.1849

1. Tempest (Overall):Average rating (44 votes): 30.68%
5) 2 votes
4) 4 votes
3) 10 votes
2) 14 votes
1) 14 votes

2. Traits:Average rating (43 votes): 28.48%
5) 2 votes
4) 7 votes
3) 1 votes
2) 18 votes
1) 15 votes

3. Warhorn:Average rating (42 votes): 47.02%
5) 3 votes
4) 7 votes
3) 20 votes
2) 6 votes
1) 6 votes

4. Overloads:Average rating (43 votes): 23.83%
5) 3 votes
4) 2 votes
3) 5 votes
2) 13 votes
1) 20 votes

5. Healing Skill:Average rating (42 votes): 44.64%
5) 3 votes
4) 8 votes
3) 13 votes
2) 13 votes
1) 5 votes

6. Utilities:Average rating (37 votes): 41.27%
5) 1 vote
4) 6 votes
3) 18 votes
2) 13 votes
1) 5 votes

7. Elite Skill:Average rating (43 votes): 5.23%
5) 1 vote
4) 0 votes
3) 2 votes
2) 1 vote
1) 39 votes

8. Animations & sound effects:Average rating (42 votes): 50.00%
5) 2 votes
4) 16 votes
3) 9 votes
2) 10 votes
1) 5 votes

This time you are encouraged to add a few lines on what you thought was the best part (if any) and what you thought was the worst part of the spec (if any).

If you wish, you may also post your main recommendations (short summary) and/or link to the post with your more detailed recommendations for fixes/changes.

REMEMBER: This is an IMHO topic, so please do not call out others for having a different opinion than yours, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

Thanks for your contribution and let’s hope this helps to guide ANET going forward.

Lightsbane.9012:

yeah i don’t see a lot of eles running warhorn, simply because it doesn’t really bring anything to the table other than boon sharing. Oh, and a huge firefield. Ele didn’t have enough of those right?

Well you forgot that now you have no means of blasting them with your OH! ha! bet you didn’t see that coming.

Oh wait that is not a plus….

The Great Al.2546:

I’m sorry, I was actually agreeing with you I was just trying to explain why I didn’t think it would really be possible to create an entirely new role with just an offhand.

Oh, sorry. Misinterpreted you.

But I still think it would have been possible to make a new playstyle – for instance if Warhorn was a mid range weapon that gave good synergy with scepter and they fixed scepter, we could have ppl alternating between classic D/D or a new S/Wh. That would be interesting and open variants for the PvP ppl.

Alas, innovation isn’t the forte of the elementalist dev team.

The Great Al.2546:

I don’t think an offhand weapon can really bring about a new playstyle. Your MH weapon defines your build, and there is nothing about dagger or scepter that says ‘group support’

Well they have advertised it as “creating an entirely new role” and a some people were eager for that. I for one pre-ordered based on that – which in my view has not been delivered with the tempest like it has been delivered by the other specializations (not judging if they are good or bad, but that they do bring new way of play).

And I think it is possible to bring a new playstyle with the whole package that the specialization brings (new weapon, mechanic and skills).

But…..

Warhorn offers the same we have with our current OHs (some damage, some CC and some group support), with some small differences with one/two new abilities (boon removal and boon share+extension), but nothing as impactful and changing like a new boon that mesmers’ got (for example).

They could have made the class mechanic more impactful to have staying in one attunement be our “new playstyle” – shifting us from our standard routine of swapping attunements for the best benefits, but this is not the case at all. The Overload mechanic, has mentioned said several times, is not powerful enough and punishes you too harshly for what it does – the risk/reward ratio is way off.

The skills could have helped to open new variations from the cantrips that currently are our salvation and our curse, but again they do not – some are too weak others have uses but are not powerful to compete with cantrips nor have the same degree of synergy with traits.

We could have at least finally gained a decent elite skill, alas that was the greatest disappointment in the whole package.

Overall, all the tests I did with it yesterday and today left me very disappointed with this specialization.

After playing around with the Tempest I have come to the same conclusion as many here.

The Tempest provides new tools? Yes.
Are they good? Generally not in their current state.
Do they bring a new playstyle? Definitely not and currently are a downgrade from what we have.

Blackbeard I think explained it perfectly.

Quick question guys so that I can see if I get my hops up or not: Since when is John Corpening the game director for WvW?

Time and time again we had empty promises, the fact that he acknowledges issues that have been posted in this forum for so long and so constantly is great but hardly anything to go “Wow they listened!!!”. It literally takes 2 min in this forum to get what is the biggest issues and certainly took less than 3 years to do it.

Now we get another promise of fixes that will begin to be looked into once the expansion is released…. a.k.a., wait around until the expansion that doesn’t even have a launch date comes out and then wait until we give you news.

So I wanted to know since when he is the WvW game director to see if this is not just empty words intended to make us stop complaining about the game during a time they are trying to lure more ppl into it or if this might be the words of a new guy that is trying to come and fix the house.

Laraley.7695:

style.6173:

Sigh. Not every weapon set is intended for everyone. Play to your playstyle.

Sigh. When most of the ele players are disappointed with the spec and think it’s quite bad, I feel it’s time for devs to think about what they are trying to do with the class.

I agree, the whole forum seems just a pile of disappointment…. It would be nice if we at least had a dev post here to try to raise ppls spirits.

Mike.3460:

Azel.4786:

snip

Some words on my Suggestions maybe? :P

I agreed with most of them, but have a different concept for the overload mechanics.

Also, even if we keep the current mechanic for overload “high risk / high reward” I still think that elite you suggested is out of place.

The elite skill should be all about summoning a mighty storm, quite frankly I think it should be calling a storm that has all 4 elements in it – perhaps in some randomized / periodical way (one pulse is fire, other is water style, etc.) or all effects at the same time.

That, in my view, would be more “Tempest” rather than cooldown reduction mechanics which is more Chronomancer style of play.

Overall I was disappointed with the tempest for reasons many already pointed, but I think that instead of giving blasts to the warhorn as some suggested it would be fun if the blasts came to the shout, it would give a lot of variety with having warhorn creating a ton of fields and we having a lot of shouts to give versatility on blasts.

Plus with this shouts would also become interesting for other weapons as they would allow you to blast some of our fields.

And just two other points:

- Elite skill is absurd. How could this elite have been conceived baffles me. It must go away and be replaced with something that actually makes sense and actually feels “elite”.

- Overloads. I would suggest to tone way down on the risk and tone a bit down on the reward. Overloads will not work as a high risk high reward mechanic.

I played around with the Tempest and I would like to add this to the topic:

1. It most certainly didn’t feel like “playing an entirely new role” with my elementalist. It was more of the same with a different approach. Extremely disappointing in this aspect and my biggest issue with this elite spec.

2. Warhorn: Weapon animations were horrible. Seriously blowing the horn every time was really poor and only a few had interesting animations after the “blowing”. Guess new sound effect is still in the making as well…

However, the skills felt useful in Fire (but Fire 5 is so insanely slow it hurts), in Earth and in Water (but water globe was indeed too fast). Air was terribly weak, Air 5 specially isn’t even worth the effort of pressing the button.

3. Shouts: Too long CD and also still wasn’t able to feel good without my cantrips there. I could see uses in some, but nothing that contends with cantrips significantly.

Oh and I think shouts should be a traitable to be blasts, rather than just adding blasts to warhorn.

4. Elite: Delete all traces of its existence and design a completely new one. This elite makes zero sense for our class and is useless. Should never have been designed.

5. Traits: Terrible, you almost don’t want to pick the elite specialization due to how bad a lot of the traits are.

6. Overloads: Gigantic risk for mediocre / weak reward.

And IMHO, overloads should have their gigantic risk toned way down and offer only a modest / small reward. You should want to use it frequently and not have a class mechanic become a “table turner” high risk / high reward skill,.

Overloads should work as follow:

- You start charging the overload when in combat.
- Once it is charged you can immediately use it any attunement (you don’t need to sit in the attunement);
- Activate by pressing F5 button. Consumes your “charge” and thus you need to “recharge” the F5 skill again. It does not affect the cooldown of any attunement, only of the F5 skill. Once activated (1/2s cast time) creates a storm effect in the area that does the following:

All with a 3s duration and hitting up to 5 friendlies and 5 enemies:
- Fire: Burn and damage enemies every pulse. Applies might to allies (2 mights right of the bat and then 3 more during the duration);
- Water: Heal allies every pulse and cures up to 3 condis. Applies chill and 2 stacks vulnerability on enemies per pulse.
- Air: Damages (2 attacks per pulse) and applies stun on enemies (stun only once at beginning), damage is higher than fire’s. Applies swiftness and fury on allies.
- Earth: Bleed (2x stacks per pulse) and blind enemies. Applies protection on allies.

Does it become lackluster? Yes, it is in no way “epic” and would remove a lot of the animations (but seriously, only fire and earth animation felt fun to me, water is bad and air is ridiculous), but I think this would make it “useful” rather than its terrible current state.

ANET made us a question:

“So what kind of feedback are we looking for? (…) Do the elite specializations feel like they are creating an entirely new role for your main profession?”

Source: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-first-beta-weekend-event-begins-august-7/

For those who have played the Tempest already, how would you answer that question?

I am trying to finish work to get a chance to play it, but eager to know because that was one of my main issues with the Tempest specialization when presented to us (because I didn’t see any “entirely new role” for the elementalist).

Thanks for the vote Snow White.1842, thus far we have:

71 votes
Average rating of: 3,43/5
Remember, a rating closes to 5 is bad and rating closest to 1 is good (yeah should have made it the other way around….)

I plan on updating again on Saturday and close the one week worth of pool to get the final general opinion, but I must say a 3,43/5 is not a “scratch the idea” rating, but it certainly leads to a “a lot of rework needed” rating.

All in all I think we got a really rough diamond that needs a good amount of polishing, but if it gets it it could be interesting albeit not entirely new play style for elementalists.

Thanks for votes guys, updated up to skullmount.1758.

Thanks for the votes guys, updated to Guilmon.9478.

Thanks for the extra votes guys, updated to Deim Hunir.8503.

Also adjusted your vote OneKlicKill.4285, but I had to watch this to understand what a kazoo was https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oau9gtG5Om8.

Thanks for votes guys, keep them coming. We are getting quite a lot I must say, up to 50 now.

Updated up to Silv.9207.