Showing Posts For Aztex.4895:
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@Liquid Storm, why do you say Guild vs Guild? what about a small groups of pugs protecting some points the best they can with a chance to make it possible? what about small guilds that know what to do but can’t do nothing against zergs?
WvW is for everyone! Big WvW Guilds, small WvW Guilds, WvW Pugs and all the other players of the server (yes, PVE and sPVP) that want to join in and be important to the server, but don’t want to be ordered around by a Commander of (another) Guild and following him like sheeps to the shepperd.
I know zerg is a part of WvW. It will always be in terms of massive PVP. But right now it’s the most eficient way of doing it and it shouldn’t be. There’s no strategy and no way to defend against it unless you are in a zerg or in a big WvW Guild (funny isn’t it?). Most of the time you know you don’t wanna upgrade anything because you’re gonna lose it really fast, so why do you waste gold? after the prime time of your server ends, all of it will be lost because there are not enough people.
Without taking credit from the guilds you mentioned, I know them very well, they ended up leaving the server from T1 because they weren’t having fun playing against VZ zergs.
Before the free transfers week, the SFR WvW was only about their WvW Guilds and they were winning, even though they were playing in zergs too, more organized and with better players, but still zergs.
With the free transfers, many players (new pugs, new guilds and low lvl players) came to this server. Since SFR Guilds couldn’t make most of the new players to follow them around as they pleased (as in zergs), everything started to fail and they blamed ArenaNet till this very day.
@KuroNeko, I agree with you too. But ArenaNet decided to put them for some reason (I can come up of some, but don’t know if they are beneficial or not), so I doubt they will take it back.
(edited by Aztex.4895)
Everyone knows WvW is only about zergs. And yes, this is one more thread about how it could be fixed. I didn’t find any post regarding the same suggestion, so here it goes.
Anet can still hide it a bit with some updates (like this last one in Arrow Carts), but servers still zerg and they will continue to do it.
Why do people zerg? Because they get points faster and with no challenge and because they have more supply with them to build any siege weapon.
What if all the points – Keeps, Towers and Camps – would scale in difficulty with the number of attackers, like we see in PVE?
The more people there are attacking a Tower, the harder it gets – NPC’s get stronger with more skills, there are more NPC’s spawning, the Gate and Walls get more Life.
I don’t know if they are already doing this, but I guess they aren’t because it would be the best way to counter zergs with balancing a bit.
I think with this idea well balanced, a Keep or a Tower would be so hard to take down when there’s a zerg of 40+ people in front of it that it wouldn’t be fast enough. Players would think about the time wasted in only one point and would try to separate in teams to take/defend other objectives in the map at the same time.
I’m not even close to a master of economy but I fully understand what the OP is saying.
I always had fun playing a game to achieve and/or farm an item, knowing I would have near X amount of gold for it and prices would rarely change too much unless something new in the game changed it. If someone was selling an item too low, than it’s because that person didn’t care about the real price of the items he/she sells and, as such, you cannot call it an exploit since it’s lack of interest of that person in knowing the true value of the things it owns. It’s the player responsibility to search the value of things he holds if he wants to profit with them and if has no interest in knowing that, than the other player has no obligation of telling otherwise because it’s a good deal. The buyer is not using the seller, the seller just didn’t cared to know.
But right now, that’s completelly broken in this game.
Everything you want sell to other players is controlled by the game and by those that know how to control it. You will never know the value of something, if the value itself is something many players who know economycs are controling right now. Those who understand economycs and are watching the TP closely are always saying the same things: you won’t have good deals from it unless you “play the TP game”, or you’re lucky, and for that you have to know what you’re doing. Pick an item and control it’s value.
This is the worst kind of exploiting because you are not only using someone for your own personal gain, you’re using EVERYONE in the game who’s selling the item you’re controlling.
And they were’nt clueless about the item’s worth, they just got “played”.
Right now, this TP system seems more like the Big Brother of economy, which has some “friends” who know how to “play the game” and the others, most common players, who are completelly exploited by those “friends” while beeing controlled by the Big Brother, because they can’t do nothing about it unless they learn how to play the game too.
And they don’t want to learn that, because it’s NOT FUN!
There are some threads about this already.
Here’s the last one: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Add-content-to-towns-to-make-them-interesting/first#post1379614
60sec is a better time, 5min is to long and it should be sy 2spot Supply camp, 3 spots Tower, 5spots Keep, 10spots Castle.
Too many spots. As Windowmaker said, this could also break the point of a small group mechanic, but I agree that this is a good idea to be looking for because, well, it could also give more meaning to small groups too.
I say this because I don’t really like the idea of everyone sticking togetter in the lord room just to take something, taking advantage of culling and with no strategy at all, giving no chance to the ones that are inside with less numbers and the only way to counter is by having our own zerg fighting theirs. I also don’t like how Mesmers can make the difference in strategy with just one portal to the lord room. With 3 spots to take in keeps and few more in SM, it would become a matter of strategy and giving meaning to smaller groups while breaking the zerg. Of course, small groups couldn’t take keeps with stealth attacks so easy, but I’m not in favor of having 1 party taking a keep all alone, unless it’s completelly defenseless and with 3 spots, a party can still take a keep.
So I would make it 1 spot Supply Camp, 2 spots Tower, 3 spots Keep and 4-5 spots Castle.
Supply Camps should be easier to get for everyone to take, small and big groups.
Tower could have 2 spots, one in the Lord room and one behind the Gate, which would still be good for small groups to take.
Keeps with 3 spots would force the enemy zergs to spread in smaller groups in order to get those points. The small group mechanic has, in fact, more meaning than it had untill now and the Zerg stops beeing a zerg.
Castle with 4-5 spots is already enough. I mean, StoneMist is huge, beeing attack from everywhere is not easy to defend, but since all 3 servers are fighting each other to get it will be even harder to take if the attacking groups spreads too much.
+1 for this!
Instead of only giving content to towns like mini-games and such, I think it’s more important to give reasons to use those cities, turning them into hubs.
Examples:
- Guild Halls instance area – each city has one, with it’s unique culture and design of course. Take the example of Divinity’s Reach’s Personal Story area for humans.
Each city would have an instance inside it where guilds could claim their own guild halls and have neighbours from the same city, making the city more alive.
The only way to go in and out of the instance is through the city.
- City Arenas – should exist in all the cities of the world. Each city has with it’s own tournament table. They could even put duels and 2×2 battles in there.
- Guild Missions – A map in each city , with many missions that ask for a min and max number of members to participate. Missions vould ask for only 1 to 5 members, while others could be much bigger (10, 20, 50, 100?).
The missions could happen beneath the city, inside it or in other places possible around it, generating more activity in many other maps too.
- City Economy – If they aren’t selling, then they should have items with a much lower cost, while other cities with many overflows should sell much more expensive items. With a limit at the prices to balance this, people would see things cheaper in other areas and tend to go there just because of that alone.
- City portals in mists – What makes people go to LA only is because it’s free to go there wherever you are. They can change this in many ways.
1- Make portals for all the citys in the mists.
2- Make all portals have fees to pass through, except for you “home” city – Your home is set to LA by default, unless you changed it.
3- You can change your “home” city by talking to your Guild NPC there, because your guild has claimed a Hall in it (see the idea about Guild Halls above).
With imagination we can get many ways to do this. I just hope ArenaNet is watching this.
(edited by Aztex.4895)
@eisberg, I agree with you, that’s why I also don’t like how Karma and Karma vendors have too many things available to players. I sill like crafting though and it’s always good to have the ability to craft everything with the right mats.
The problem with this game is that most things that have potential to be really valuable are, in fact, not wanted. They are too common and way too easy to get.
Skins are the best example of this, since they were supposed to be one of the main reasons for people to play this game instead of the stats treadmill we see in other mmorpgs. That’s not what’s happening, is it?
For me, the OP idea is one of the possible solutions for some flaws in this game. But I guess you’re right, the game itself doesn’t allow it to work as I thought.
Another possible solution? I have one, but needs much more changes in the game.
First of all, limit karma vendors and the items they sell. If many items were obtainable by loot dropping only in a certain map, or by crafting only with the right mats (which some of them are loot drop only in 1 map), we would see many more players in all maps just to get what they want. They could grind or do events/hearts, it doesn’t matter since the activity of the map is much bigger, the skins were harder to get and, as such, more unique and less common to see, and those items would also gain value.
But I guess ArenaNet is not in favour of big changes right now and I don’t even know if this would work.
@eisberg, don’t forget one thing. In most of other games where that happended, the prices were fixed to one server only. Here, you have all the servers together in one place, which will still price the items at a lower level and still easy for new players to use it.
I was a casual player in some of the games I played, and I still found the Auction House of some of those games very friendly to players like me. What was hard to get were the skins most people wanted, because those were always disapearing in a flash, while other things like mats had true value. In here, many mats aren’t worth selling in TP are they? They are so easy to get that everyone sells them in TP and just waits for the time when the value goes up a bit to sell them for a more “fair” price, which will make the value of the item go down again because a lot of people want to make it cheaper in order to sell them faster. If the price they want to sell is too high, they just wait again.
I actually agree with the timer.
I played some games with auction houses (@jwaz, it works exactly like auction houses) and I have to say, the games that had timers would make the items be worth for their skins, even when those skins had smaller stats then the bigger ones people would still want them because they were unique and not easy to find.
A timer of 5-7 days is enough to limit how much garbage is sold in there while also keeps the market alive in terms of balance.
In the beguinning, people just sell in TP in order to empty their inventory knowing it will sell sooner or later, even if they stopped playing or wait for months/years untill that happens. There are still many items there waiting for the price to go up and make their sellers rich. This is why most skins that could be AWESOME, are just “meh” because it’s too easy to get them. And this also gave the opportunity for many players to start controlling many items worth in TP with less risks because they know their items will sell for the price they made sooner or later even if it take months/years (unless they made it with a price too high for what it’s really worth) .
That’s why most items lose value, if you want to buy something you just have to go there and buy it, knowing you will find it there.
What’s even worse, there are so many items with the same skin in there that skins lose value too, and that is making most gear in this game even less valuable.
It’s a place with limitless stock in most things people would really want if this was another game, the same things that were suppose to give meaning to the progression of the game that many players claim it’s missing right now and the same things that were supposed to give more activity in many maps – because the skins in those maps are unique and should be hard to get. But now they aren’t neither of those.
With a timer, many items will reset their stocks or there will be a lot less available. Their value will go up, skins will be harder to find and people will find what items are really worth or not, with a bigger amount of items in the “real-worth-list” and a smaller amount in the “lets-control-this-item-worth-list”.
Great post!
ArenaNet, if you’re watching the forums, please, READ THIS THREAD and please, make this topics a TOP PRIORITY!
I was about to make a post about the same ideas (not so well thought as the OP), how the game is getting less and less interesting, and the new January update that didn’t changed most people opinions.
If you care about your players, about the Guilds that are at their limits to stay in the game and about the ones that want this game to succeed, it’s now or never!
- Not laughing at all but, The game is called GuildWars2 and it doesnt offer wars between guilds ? Its like buying water in the bottle and u find mustard inside. I’d make it like betting system. Guild X want to battle against Guild Z. They aggre to put 500g each, select 10-20 best PvP members to fight for the prize and glory in bo5 series. After one side won the prize is 1000g + game generates some crafting materials as a bonus. The guild that won is now richer and have materials to gear up some of their guildmates. It would be nice to have a spectating mode that everyone on the server that want to see it could do it. Maybe spectator spot could cost gem’s or something like that to reduce spectating crowd. With that GvG system added guilds would fight against each other everyday. Some ingame ranking system rewarding top 10 guilds every month with skins/mounts/pets etc. to keep them playing, to keep players occupied.
I would actually improve more on this idea.
This is idea is very simillar to Perfect World International’s world wars.
In PWI we had an entire world to conquer, divided by many regions and the purpose of the guilds was to conquer all the regions in the map. The more regions a guild had, the better it was because it gained fame, each map would bring gold to the guild at the end of the week and it brought a healthy competition between guilds.
If a guild wanted to conquer a region it had to pay to attack it. If the attacked region has no owner, they would do a PVE instance to get it. If it has an owner, the owner would have to accept the attack and then the battle would happen in an instance (a map simillar to LOL and Smite maps but much bigger). The battles would happen all in the same days and almost at the same times of the day. If a guild had many regions beeing attacked at the same time then it had to chose between defending them all with less manpower each or to lose some of them in order to keep other maps safe.
But you could bring as many people as you wanted.
Now, I would add some things and would like to see if Kaktuch could comment on them too, since it’s an adaptation of his great idea.
1- Instead of 10vs10, I would make GvG with different “divisions” where they can sign-up to participate. There are 3 divisions: the 1st has 30vs30 battles; the second has 20vs20 battles, and the 3rd has 10vs10 battles.
This would make the competition between guilds really high while giving all the guilds a chance to be one of the best in one of the divisions at least, and more things to do for bigger and/or more hardcore guilds since they can sign-up for the 3 divisions.
2- Each guild has it’s own “castle” and they can chose between 2, 3 or more castles to be their defending keep. They can chose a castle by spending gold, and that castle would be their home, at least untill they decide to buy another one, which should be really expensive in order avoid those guilds with more real money invested to change their castle all the time, to help ArenaNet with some more microtransaction options and to give guilds an oportunity to plan their battle ahead (A guild might now another guild’s map and chose a better tactic to win, or the other guild might be one step ahead and chose another castle before the battle in order to avoid that).
3 – There could be a map with many regions, like in PWI, only for GvG or theye could take the WvW and change it completelly to help this idea work propperly. Right now, WvW is not enough for guilds and has a lot of issues to solve, but I doubt they will make changes like these in something with so much work and time invested already.
(edited by Aztex.4895)
I agree that: lot of exploits need to be removed; Mesmers should keep their portals; rendering/culling issues are one of the main reasons for many WvW problems.
But still, some of these posts makes me think of a quote: “the value of coincidence equals the degree of its improbability.”
Think clearly. If something is related to many bad situations in WvW, the probability of it beeing the cause is higher than any other reason.
In the opinion of some players, the fact that Mesmer Portals are the only thing related to many things to occur in WvW is just a mere coincidence and there’s no reason to change it even a little.
It’s like saying there is a mass of killings with the same weapon, but the cause in some of them is because there was no police around, in the other X killings was because some of the victims were stupid and they fell for the killer’s traps, and the other killings because no one noticed it happening.
I disagree. Mesmer portal is great, leave it as it. I don’t see any valid arguments here as to why it should change. The rendering issue least of all as not only are Anet working on removing it from existence, but you’ve never needed a portal to create a zerg render attack.
So, having Mesmer becoming a MUST profession in WvW because of that one skill is not a good reason for you?
FOR: As Hymnosi said, it brings another layer of strategy that would normally not be there. But this advantage also brings a lot of disadvantages, some of the are really bad ones and I say them below!
AGAINST: It’s becoming the “new healer/tank”, which means it’s so important in WvW that you need Mesmers to make the difference and be succesfull, they are NECESSARY and, as such, they are also a pre-requisite in most attack and counter-attack actions.
I think this is VERY BAD for the game itself and, if I remmeber right, against one of ArenaNet’s philosophies?
There are a lot of things you can’t do without Mesmers and now it’s just a matter of time before all the Guilds who go to WvW in a competitive way start using the Mesmer profession as a must.
a) There isn’t any other profession who can do the same thing. You should have other professions that do the same thing in different ways and, of course, each one would have it’s own restritions that make it a bad choice for some situations.
b) How do we counter it? Why don’t make it a boon when he starts the skill that can be taken away with anti-boons skills? If he is able to complete it, then it was well played or just lucky. He already becomes invisible….
c) An entire Zerg can use it. Why not restrain it to just 5/10 players?
You have many solutions and variations for things like this.
Isn’t this the same thing as having a Healer or a Tank to be necessary roles in other games? Because the reason ArenaNet changed the way professions were made was to counter this same problem in most MMORPG’s.
(edited by Aztex.4895)
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