Guild Wars 2

With 200 healing power (the base you can have for this ability), it heals for 331. With another 100 healing power, it heals for 363, so definitely not a huge heal. Only take it if you are doing a bunker DS build, where healing 350 every 5 seconds on top of a lot of other heals you can get isn’t bad at all.

I agree that necromancer has some difficult trait decisions, making good builds is really strange on necros. I don’t believe it lacks coherency though.

I just said that about staff because Death Magic still makes the most sense for where to put staff’s main traits; remember though, that staff has only half of its traits in Death Magic, compared to other weapons which are completely contained within their own tree.

Curses has scepter and warhorn, Spite has Axe/Focus. That is not to mention that above all, the staff is a support weapon, not an offensive one.

That said, minions and staff really only “synergize” with mark of blood, which might increase their life span by a little bit if you stack up a lot of healing. Axe is a much more obvious choice for minions, just auto attacking with axe effectively buffs minion’s damage by another 12%, plus Focus (the most common Axe OH choice) gives regen, vulnerability, AND boon strips. Axe Focus is a far better minion choice, and what do you know, the weapon set that buffs minion damage is on the same trait line as the trait that buffs minion damage.

And what else would have made sense for staff? It is a defensive/support weapon, and it has traits in the tree that has defensive/support traits.

I wouldn’t say people are using MF gear to make it more fun by being more challenging, but because currently almost all PvE content is for fun and/or farming, excluding high fractals and speed runs (which are still for fun/farming, but at least are requiring of proper gear). Since it is such a farm-fest, it is pretty common for people to run with full rare MF gear.

That can also be gained with Condition duration.

If I’m reading it right, you are saying what to put on your staff? I wouldn’t put AoE effects on the staff, you rarely will find yourself so close that it would be worthwhile.

And for what Rennoko said, the CDs for on-swap weapons are 9 seconds, so they will always proc on every swap, so long as you are not using another on-proc sigil.

If kiting is stopping your skill chain, that’s your fault, you should be able to kite well enough that you are still getting your attacks out (otherwise you are just running away).

We don’t dodge that often, lets be honest here, we’re necros. You should be able to have near permanent poison on your target all the time if you are using scepter, if you don’t, its not up to the game to buff our already permanent poison durations.

I agree that sheer variety of builds is gone from GW2. However, it is a much better thing, and an easier issue to address than GW1’s issues. They can change traits, they can change skills, they can change the numbers, but the base design of the game has a much better balance, and the devs will have it a lot easier trying to balance 50 skills per class, compared to 500 (times two for secondary classes) like before.

My advice is go to the Mist, and just browse through their stuff; they have at least close to every weapon/armor set in the game.

In PvE I use 2x Krait, 2x Lyssa, 2x Mad King runes, for 20% overall condition duration, and +15% Bleed Duration extra. The reason is that I use a hybrid build, and I much prefer being able to support with 20% longer conditions overall (and we have enough to warrant it), than just stack up tons of Bleed duration that could possibly be pushed off by someone else.

I’ve been running P/Cond/MF gear forever (with P/Prec/MF trinkets). It will slow down the overall finish times by a bit, but not by a ton.

That said, I use a hybrid build in all PvE. As much condition damage/power/precision as I can, with a bit of crit damage, and little to no defensive stats (although I have PVT gear on hand for those situations where damage doesn’t matter, like running bombs to the dredge wall). I like hybrid because if you get another condition player in your group, you can take Epidemic for all non-boss fights, and switch to Axe/Focus + Staff, with Wells to support. You’ll still do huge damage with the Epidemic AoE, your power build will do great damage still, and you have ranged wells to support with.

Staff, its too good in PvE to not use, and you probably don’t want to go into dagger range in PvE.

I think ANet’s thought on CPC was to give necro’s a large area denial ability. You really can’t fight effectively inside the field, the problem is that every build has better options, like you said.

In sPvP you can’t just switch skills in the middle anymore (or maybe its tPvP that you can’t). That said, every MM should have a focus off hand, and that should be enough to strip his stability (and do a nice chunk of damage), and chilling him at the same time.

@Spoj, I’m like… 92% sure that this entire thread is just a joke. Even as a pretty outspoken proponent of necromancers , I chuckled reading this; it is supposed to be humorous, not taken seriously.

It needs a buff, I agree, but the initial comparison (the only reason I posted) was terrible, and if you start off a discussion about wanting to get an ability changed with an obviously terrible comparison, you won’t get anywhere.

According to your logic, Wells are trash because you can easily dodge out of them. CPC should be used in a similar scenario, when your opponent can’t (for whatever reason) leave the area.

It is interesting, and in this case I will forgive you for drawing the parallel between minions and pets

I think they will give AR to all pets/summons, it just makes sense to. Beyond that, who knows.

No, fear doesn’t go through stability, although stability can be corrupted into Fear.

I assume he hates fear because he can’t have 100% stability uptime, so could get feared out of a lot of 100bs.

Initiate on them first. The only way that a warrior will be able to 100b a necro, ever, is if they have stability (you should always save boon strip for big strips like stability) or if you wasted your DS. If they don’t, you have multiple immobilizes and cripples, and in a pinch you can Flesh Golem charge, plus if they catch you without stability you can just jump into DS, hit 3, keep going.

If you absolutely have to tank the burst, because they have stability and got into you, just pop DS. Even if you are low on LF, save it for a little bit later in the burst, so that the final attack breaks DS.

In the very example given, the heals the caltrops proc were not clearing conditions. And the poison is reapplied multiple times over the time period. Not every source of healing is able to cleanse conditions.

Except that the example given is terrible.

Caltrops has a 30 second cooldown, comparable duration, and causes 2 three second bleeds, and a nice long cripple.

Corrosive poison cloud has 40 second cooldown, and causes poison and weakness. Weakness will drop the incoming damage (excluding existing Dots) by 50% to any non-crit build, and poison will destroy your healing.

Your example gave the absolute best scenario for Caltrops (traited, high endurance regen, enemy standing still, using specific signet) and then didn’t list any of the benefits of Corrosive Poison (essentially a 240 radius that is impossible to fight in).

Basically all corruption skills, all minion skills, half our wells, and half our signets are either directly damaging, or indirectly (ie: Corrupt Boon), and even at least two that don’t directly damage can be used to damage via finishers (Spectral Wall and non-damaging wells). Most necromancer builds will have 2 out of 3 utility slots being a direct or indirect damage source, and then a skill to support that purpose (like Grasp for well builds).

Straight DPS isn’t comparable, but glass cannon warriors are rarely seen in tPvP for a reason; their cleave relies on enemies grouping in a very small area, and standing absolutely still. This is why they are amazing in PvE (mobs are stupid and will happily eat 100b all day) and rarely seen in PvP (you need to unbind WASD to be unable to kite a warrior).

As you said, straight DPS warriors are amazing, it is why they are used for speed runs, but in 1v1 effectiveness they are crap, which is why they aren’t a good small-scale PvP class.

Warrior utility skills, however, are all based around enhancing their weapon set, whereas necromancer utility skills are actual damage abilities in their own right.

You could change out whatever you wanted, since besides 30 SR I can’t think of any required defensive traiting you need, meaning all the rest of your traits aren’t going to make the fight any more doable, just faster.

Warriors are not that good in 1v1. You see a whole two warrior builds in tPvP, 100b and rifle (on occasion). 100b is laughably easy to deal with as a necro, keep throwing out CC, and if they just happen to catch you save your DS for the 100b. Rifle just isn’t that strong of a build, you are in more danger from a thief.

We beat guardians in 1v1. Their CC isn’t reliable enough to keep us down, and they either drop like a bag of bricks if they do damage, or they just can’t do enough damage to be a threat to you. Remember that guardians are trash without boons, and we have boon stripping.

I never see elixer Engies in 1v1, so can’t talk on them, and obviously Mesmer’s are just insane in 1v1, if they are using the right build, and are reaching skill cap (an average mesmer is terrible, a great one is godly).

Necromancers get more mileage out of vitality than other classes, so vitality vs toughness is a much less obvious answer with us. In other classes, toughness wins in long fights, vitality wins in short ones (because vitality is only an initial buffer, whereas toughness makes your HP over the whole fight more effective, more HP you go through in the whole fight, the better toughness is), however on necromancers, because we have DS and LF is gained through straight %, vitality can somewhat mask the usual weakness it has.

Except glass cannon warriors drop like rocks. Glass cannon necros have equal HP to a warrior, with a full other life bar to use, and better control. Also DS 1 can be AoE as well with one trait.

I don’t consider 1v1s in WvW to “count” really. You can make thieves/eles run away all the time, if you are okay with that as a win then we are still great. The difference in WvW is there is just so much area to run around in that mobility wins outright, it has nothing to do with who would have actually won had the fight continued, they will just run away and try to get a reset.

For stealth, that is why I said it comes down to build vs build and skill. They do much better against condition builds because they can heal/cure conditions in stealth, however against power/minion builds it is completely possible to chain CC them long enough to put them down, and stealthing for them only brings up some HP.

Minions work about 95% of the time, the 5% being the rare occasion (and it happens) that Flesh Golem or Bone Minion gets “stuck” attacking an old target.

Rennoko.5731:

However, I don’t agree too much on the 1v1 superiority. We are comparable in 1v1, somewhere in the middle of the pack, but by no means the champ. Condition control would be more meaningful if conditions had sharper teeth, but we do control them quite well. Also if we are talking 1v1 it depends on Spvp/wvw and how much DS you start with. WvW, we are pretty well off, and counter most builds. Spvp, since we start with zero DS have a much much harder time.

1v1 depends a lot on builds, because when you get down to 1v1 you start getting into hard/soft counters. For example, MMs with Minions stripping boon completely shuts down guardians and elementalists. However, MMs can be wrecked by P/D thieves. It gets into a cycle of just having the right build.

Overall though, we have great 1v1 tools. DS can absorb a full glass cannon thief burst, MM builds are one of the best overall 1v1 builds in the game, and power/well builds will completely wreck anyone that doesn’t stun break and roll out fast enough. Our condition builds aren’t great in 1v1, but all the builds listed above still have tons of access to non-damaging conditions.

The only class that I would say outclasses necros in 1v1 are mesmers, with thieves being more related to build vs build and skill.

@Kidbs, thanks for the idea to use hydromancy sigil, I’m definitely going to try that out.

Skyro.3108:

Necro’s “defense” is supposed to be their high base health pool + DS. Obviously at the start of fights DS is at zero, so obviously they are at a disadvantage at the start, but at full DS they are relatively competitive 1v1.

I would consider conditions part of our defense as well; every single weapon set has at least 2 conditions that reduce damage (chill, cripple, fear, immobilize, weakness, blind). Even boon stripping might and retaliation can be considered a defensive tool.

wiazabi.2549:

@Rennoko and where do necro excell? most encounters are made for power / burst well actually each and every encounter is except maybe the water boss in fractal that actually makes epidemic feel good not that its needed there but still.

Necro’s excel in surviving, 1v1, and conditions. Necromancers have access to some of the best 1v1 builds in the game, we have by far the best condition control overall, and have the best survival. Unfortunately, our survival is unique in that it works incredibly well against a lot of trash mobs or in PvP, but is much, much worse against big bosses; whereas other types of survival tend to translate much better to boss fights.

It is certainly difficult to time right now, but that is what really separates the great from the average (or bad) in using epidemic. 1 second is a huge cast time, but honestly as necro’s we should be used to it; a lot of our bigger skills have long cast times. As for group removal, its just the current meta of the game. Even a not-so-good epidemic can still drop 10 bleeds and various other conditions on a group, which is hardly bad at all (that is 50 bleeds, even if they only last 5 seconds that is HUGE damage).

Actually necromancers are one of, if not the best overall 1v1 class in the game. We have the highest defense with no investment. You go against a condition build? Use consume conditions and condition transfer, and all their effort is turned against them. Against a glass cannon? DS absorb the burst, fight it out until their next burst, DS again, continue. Fighting a guardian/ele that are trash without boons? Boon strip ALL the things.

There are plenty of things that necromancers lack, it is the reality of how balance works. That said, 1v1 is not an area we are lacking in at all.

The warhorn is an absolute must in PvP if you aren’t carrying a staff. Locust swarm is a really strong ability, if you are using a dagger power build it does decent damage, cripples, and can life steal really well, in addition to swiftness, and really good LF generation. But Locust Swarm isn’t why you should use it, Wail of Doom is. You can stop stomps, you can stop enemy res, you can daze someone, and all of this is in a pretty big AoE; meaning you don’t just stop 1 person from stomping, you stop everyone.

Necromancers have:
Condition builds
Power builds
Hybrid builds
Minion builds

There are plenty of specific builds that you can use, but if you are brand new to it I suggest looking through Nemesis’ guides. He has a lot of good builds that you can adapt yourself.

If you are part of a highly organized group already, talk to the other condition based people, and have them call targets for you. With an Epidemic Necro, you don’t need to spread AoE conditions quite as much, you can have 1 or 2 people stack everything up on one guy and then you pop Epidemic and now 5 other people get stacked up.

That is the main thing I would suggest; get some better synergy with your condition stacker(s) so you always know who they are hitting and you always know who to epidemic.

Other than that, if you want more group synergy, you can do a power build with wells, either using a close range dagger build, or you can use a traited DS to life blast and staff from further back. You could also go for a supporting ranged-wells build, with high healing power and traited staff for regen/control, Well of Blood, the various other wells for dark fields (who could say no to AoE blind/life stealing), and then Spectral Wall, which gives Ethereal Field for some really strong group buffs/debuffs.

Abbazabah.2765:

I haven’t personally tested how epidemic works with siphoning, but levelling with Vampiric and Vampiric Precision only I noticed that even using abilities that didnt cause any damage would grant a siphon on contact with the enemy. Whorn 4 for sure grants a siphon for every mob it applies the stun debuff too, and I’m almost certain that even non-damaging wells get it per pulse even without taking the well siphoning trait.

I would wait for actual testing to confirm it, but it would appear that the siphoning traits do treat single applications of conditions as a hit.

While I do not know about applying conditions as a life-siphon (such as via epidemic), I do know that even non-damaging abilities will siphon HP; such as wells, like you mentioned.

destijl.3769:

Question: I assume it does, but when you Life Transfer in DS, does it heal your regular HP if you have the siphon on crit trait?

No. What happens is that Life Transfer in DS attempts to heal your real HP bar, but because your “real” HP bar at the moment is your Life Force, that is where all that healing goes. The only way to heal yourself with Life Transfer is to start the channel right as your LF runs out, you pop out of DS in the middle of the channel, and then all the ticks heal you.

I was somewhat surprised that they gave Trahearne a greatsword just to taunt me with his kittenery, but don’t let us use it. That said, he can also summon like 20 Flesh Golems at once, so its not like we can use that as a contention point.

I think the only areas that I could see us getting weapons for would be a long range power weapon (although DS can fill that role if you trait), and a PBAoE condition weapon.

Sorry, I didn’t mean that epidemic should have an even lower CD than now, I meant that you should not increase the CD, for really no reason. An instant cast with a longer CD does not make it more of a skill to use, and in fact is a huge nerf. A skilled player that is smart about when they cast epidemic right now can spread conditions every 15 seconds; with your suggestion even someone who knows the perfect time to use it will only be able to do so every 30 seconds.

Right now epidemic is far from mindless, you have to anticipate any cleanse skills being used soon, and almost preempt your team’s big condition burst. You can easily be a noob and use epidemic on CD, and having it have an instant cast will just mean people will use it the second they see a target with a bunch of conditions, without needing to put any thought about their cleanse rotation or your team’s condition rotation.

For the Terror, it has to do with how conditions are counted. When ticking things are applied to a person (conditions/boons) then everything else that is applied later ticks at the same exact time. This means that if you apply 1 stack of bleeding, then apply a 1.5 second fear 0.7 seconds later, the fear will last until the 2.2 second mark; ticking twice.

For epidemic, it really needs smaller CD with the way it works. You just need to plan ahead, and right now with the low CD there isn’t a huge problem with missing one every once in a while.

25 seconds has always been consume conditions’ CD

Death shroud got a minor “nerf” (if it was intentional) to swapping weapons. It hurt some DS centric power builds.

The rest I have no idea what you are talking about.

It is possible that when they release major expansions to the game that we will see new skills/weapons, but I’m not even sure about that. The problem is that those would require new or re-done trait trees. Another thing is that GW1 really got into a lot of trouble because of how much they added with each game; near the end you ended up with hundreds of possible skills for every character, but only 1 or 2 builds that really were useful. I imagine they really are trying to avoid that this time around.

Just a suggestion for future recordings; get computer software to record directly. I’m not entirely sure if your computer is good enough to support it, but it is always going to be incredibly difficult to have good video if you are just holding a camera to your monitor.

Andele.1306:

Just to annoy you, you forgot 2 weapons that both necro and mesmers can use, but at the same time cant for what we are talking about since both necro and mesmers have a total of 12 combination options *cough http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mx8IA364_sQ *

Yeah, I was ignoring underwater because, lets face it, no one really cares about underwater in terms of balance. Also, I laughed way too hard at that link.

On topic though; I don’t see necromancers getting new weapons unless they release a number of new weapons for all the classes. At the moment, the weapons are a big area of balance for the game, including how many each class gets. I also don’t see axe getting a cleave; it is meant to be a single target weapon mainly for dealing decent damage but also hugely increasing your team’s damage.

False. They have exactly the same number of sets that we do. They have 4 main-hand weapons, two of which are 2 handed, and as such only count as 2 sets. They then have 2 main-hand weapons which can pair with 4 off-hand weapons each for 8 sets; 10 total.

Necromancers have 1 two handed weapon, for 1 set. We then have 3 main-hand weapons which can pair with 3 off-hand weapons each for 9 sets; 10 total.

wiazabi.2549:

How ofen have you used charge on golem and hope he attacks when its done?

Flesh Golem charge does not make him or any other minions aggro at all.

Taril.8619:

…

I have literally spent 10 hours over the last few days testing out minion aggro, and what you are saying just isn’t accurate. I’ll have videos up in a while, but I can reproduce the minion aggro patterns I have found without fail. Its not like you need to exploit a bunch of things to get them to attack, or enter some secret code, you just need to attack the target twice. It is that simple.

@Avigrus; Flesh Golem was the reason I put 95%. He and bone minions will, on very rare occasion, get stuck. It tends to be a very short lived thing, and in bone minion’s case it is just 1 of them that gets stuck.