Their plan was to put Reanimator into Death Nova last I heard. And PotH is absolute trash anyway so its fine if it goes away.
It never made sense that it had a double blast finisher. Yes it sucks that they fixed it, but its a mechanics/clarity > balance fix.
They changed their mind, big deal it happens.
And by it isn’t about the stacks, I mean the skill isn’t about putting a ton of damaging conditions on the target. Yes you can use it for the stacks in a condition build, yes it works really nicely for covering conditions, but that is at most half of the skill’s use. It also deals a pretty large amount of damage and immobilizes everyone in a fairly good radius, and will often force out a dodge or escape from anyone affected.
They haven’t swapped them because it makes far more sense to scrap/combine them and make entirely new traits. ANet tends to favor leaving many issues alone, so long as they aren’t OP, and then make big changes later when they can, instead of band-aid them.
They’ve already said they will change it, but only when they are actually ready to fully change the minors.
It was only a year or so before they brought the nerf hammer down on infinite minions in GW1, sadly.
Also, I’m wondering where all the people who have demanded LB have synergy with condition builds went. I remember a lot of threads complaining that it had no synergy and now that it gets it… more complaining.
And to be super, crazy, redundantly clear: they said that it would still have the ICD in the Ready Up?
There is no way in hell they are going to have a 4s Burning proc on a 1s cast auto attack without an ICD.
It isn’t about the stacks.
Like Kiriakulos said, the only thing that I dislike about it is that the balance team will always balance every single entry/exit DS trait thinking that you have NtD on.
The trait itself is really good, it just limits other traits unnecessarily imo.
10-15 torment stacks is a terrible idea. That is almost a full stack of bleeding.
The idea is that they have to move to get out of range to avoid the much more punishing immobilize and direct damage of tainted shackles. And it really isn’t weak at all, immobilize is a really strong condition that can completely destroy builds, and we can stack 8s in addition to a hell of a lot of other CC.
Tainted Shackles is actually a key part of my MM rotation, and it is pretty strong. But it is more of a hybrid skill than condi.
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As a long time MM player, no. The entire reason that MM builds even work at all is because stats don’t matter.
The only change they should do is introduce a mechanic in PvE/WvW that allows your minions to scale up to “ascended” level, because as it is now they are getting more and more left behind as Anet keeps scaling up the total amount of stats in the game.
Our current retal duration is pretty much okay, although the retal on trait could use a little bit more imo.
What we need is more access in general.
Tainted shackles is an up to 5 target AoE that also has a pretty incredibly ending effect, whereas most other torment application is just that: an application and nothing more.
I agree that we could use a more normal source of application than Tainted Shackles, but that is something that should be fixed outside of shackles.
One thing to note is that in the GM slot a 3s Dhuumfire is actually 4s (3.9 to be exact) because you will always have that +duration on top. Just like how a 4s Master trait would be 5s. I don’t know that it is a GM anymore, and they have mentioned moving it down to Master before.
A giant thread telling them the dumbfire to lifeblast change was a bad idea and they do it anyway. Remember everyone, ArenaNet listens! They just don’t care.
Quite a few people wanted the Lifeblast-based version as well. If the community is split, then ANet can’t possibly make everyone happy.
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Symbolic actually mentioned on stream chat not that long ago that Carrion was better, I think we were making fun of someone’s terrible build at the time. Unless he has since changed his opinion, his has always been that it is better if you are managing LF (and he’s EU).
But it appears to be much more split than I realized.
Oh… I should probably do something about that.
I disagree about putrid explosion being blockable. It’s important to be able to hit a target that blocks a lot otherwise they just heal up. Timing an explosion on a blocking engie is extremely important too. They heal for quite a bit if you don’t kill them fast.
A good MM will be able to maintain very significant poison uptime on a target. The skill is already very difficult for people to avoid, except by always staying away from the bone minions (which again a good MM will never allow for long), keeping it unblockable on top of that makes it very easy to land against anything short of evade spammers.
Condi Necros address sustain via LF generation, which is a listed reason for why Vitality is approximately equal to toughness (some say better, but idk about the math on that) only for Necromancers. On most classes, vitality is counter to conditions and burst, and toughness goes best with healing. However, on Necros added vitality doesn’t really help us against conditions or burst (as both aren’t that big of a deal the first time with such massive HP pools) and toughness isn’t a clear winner in sustain because of LF generation being a % of HP thing. We have completely greyed out any real difference between the two in most situations.
And honestly healing power on a Necro isn’t worth it unless you have invested specifically into healing outside your normal skill. You want a bit of extra healing (signet, siphons, perma regen, traited healing) before it really pays off, compared to just boosting your innate sustain which has nothing to do with healing power.
@Lopez: if you do the math, they end up being nearly equal overall. The only differences are how they work (sustain vs burst), and that technically geomancy can hit multiple people (god help you if that many people are within that radius though).
They all definitely advocate proper positioning, it is your biggest defense as a Necro. The “aggressive” playstyle still involves a lot of kiting, but has quick dips in/out of the fight, or more commonly the bleed bursting is done as a counter-aggressive setup (because you will be focused and any melee build will get in range if they want to).
Lopez is advocating for a much more defensive and sustained approach whereas the meta is far more aggressive in general. Also something important to note is that Geomancy vs Earth is completely linked with Rabid vs Carrion, since you should definitely be using them in tandem with each other. It is an issue of playstyles, and while everyone is going to think their playstyle is best/better, its up for debate.
And again, a fact of high level play is that the vast majority of high level Necromancers, including the ones that have played on numerous teams and in many tournaments at the highest level of play GW2 offers, have said that Carrion is better and that Geomancy is better.
If you disagree, that is entirely fine and you are welcome to your opinion. If you want to post math that proves that, again that is fine. But otherwise you aren’t going to convince anyone that you are right just because you say so.
Because you don’t have to sit in a weapon set on Necro, Deathshroud is used aggressively in bleed burst builds.
Sorry, the wiki is off (for some reason). Still, its a drop of 1s in PvE/WvW, and takes one second extra to apply and deal the damage.
I edited it in. Geomancy has been meta for ages.
I’m speechless except to say I’m glad you aren’t on the balance team.
That’s just bad positioning. It would get you killed immediately in high-level play.
Every high level Necro I’ve ever talked to has told me Carrion, with the exception of picking up just enough crit chance to make Dhuumfire proc, was the best. Symbolic, Zombify, Gibbly (when he played), Tenderley, among others. The only time I’ve heard otherwise is on the forums.
They also all use Geomancy (a few exceptions, like the poison on swap) and at least used to use the Weakening Shroud in close combat for the bleed bursting as aggressive play. So no, you’ll do just fine.
Does it still have an ICD? If so I don’t know why you would ever take that trait, it’s not worthy of GM status if that’s the case.
It is literally the exact same “OP” Dhuumfire that everyone has been complaining about, except now you proc it with Life Blast, instead of a random crit.
It is essentially a 4s base burning because of its place in the tree every time you go into DS, or every 10s while in DS. It’ll be good.
I ran them through a build editor real quick and it seems Dhuumfire will deal about 2k damage per proc (note the 10sec ICD). Again, quickly, that seems about 2 to 3 times more than scepter autoattack. So you’re essential doing like a full chain of scepter AA in damage in half the time and you’re adding another condition to cleanse. Though, at the cost of being less reliable to land and using up very valuable sustain… All that as a grandmaster(!) trait? Again, are you really happy with this?
They haven’t changed the numbers at all, except an un-nerf in PvP.
The proc is 3s of burning every 10s, which is the same as now. The only change is that it went from being a completely random proc on Crit, to being on LB. So the change just adds play/counterplay to the skill. Necros can finally control when it is applied, and opponents can potentially avoid it.
Actually i am wondering is carrion performing better because of the vitality or the power stat?
I tested alot and i am still not really convinced that vitality is a better stat than thoughness for necros as defensive stat. And yes i know that necros scale probably the best with vitality of all professions, but still i dont really feel it…
Sorry for the off topic.
Both. Vitality essentially scales equally with toughness on Necromancers, whereas on almost every other class toughness outscales vitality once you have just enough vitality to not instantly die to bursts. However our Vitality has the same over-time scaling as toughness, so they basically even out.
Power is really the tipping point in sPvP though. The precision from Rabid really doesn’t add anything important to your build besides a few bleeds, whereas a lot of our skills hit fairly hard with Carrion’s power.
Someone who’s actually a good condi Necro could explain it all, but essentially it is both the vitality and power that set it above, because in sPvP they both end up scaling just a bit better than their counterpoints on rabid.
The ICD will make it so it can’t stack, but in PvE especially it will not be difficult to get it to proc multiple times if you want.
They are fixing ICDs on sigils.
Also, the base changes I’m talking about aren’t happening right now. But we all know Axe is going to be buffed eventually, Death Magic will get buffed when the passives are changed, things like that.
Hello everyone, I imagine most of you know me already. For those who don’t, I have hosted But of Corpse, a Necromancer podcast, for about 9 months, “lead” the all-necro guild (also called But of Corpse) and am an active poster around here. I wanted to update whoever still follows BoC, and inform any new people about what has been going on and some plans for the future.
First off, the Guild is still “alive” but doesn’t really do anything at the moment. Anyone is welcome to join (NA or EU), just PM me on the forums or in game and I can invite you. If you would like to organize all-Necro type things, I can give you privs to do that. As it is now I don’t generally have the time to organize fun things to do, although I would love to.
On to the podcast. We are currently on a short break, as I move houses to a new room to go to university. This is why we’ve missed the last two weeks, will miss this upcoming week, and may miss the next one. We aren’t gone, but I’ll be too busy to actually put the podcast together. That said, when we come back, I hope to get the community much more involved in what is going on with a weekly forum thread to get ideas and feedback.
As for a general idea, the schedule of the upcoming podcasts we do will (generally) be:
1) Patch
2) Minions (likely multi part)
3) An overview of weapons – like we did with traits
4) An overview of utilities – see above
When the next episode gets released, I’ll open a new thread where you can keep track of what’s going on week by week and give feedback, and also the weekly subject threads for the next podcast.
If you want to contact me:
Twitter
Forums
In-Game – Bhawb.7408
Thank you all for your time, and obviously feel free to leave feedback below or message me.
I’m trying to decide if it’s worth making a 3rd “MM suggestions/discussion” thread… This hurt pretty bad. Losing… will… to care… x.X
Honestly I think these changes were fine. Dhuumfire was great change, Putrid Explosion is smart, the other two are kind of meh to me, but it depends on what other changes they do.
Overall, MMs will see nerfs as the rest of the class is fixed, just because the “base” Necromancer will get stronger, so the added strength of MM will need to come down a little.
Condi Necro in PvP has always been best as Carrion, dhuumfire just forced you to take enough crit to work with, this will revert that back.
PvE/WvW it has pretty much always been the “rabid” set because of the higher stat caps and the way toughness can scale back into condition damage.
The Dhuumfire change is good, imo. Really good. Adds a lot of play on both sides, plus increases its power overall. +1
Training of the Master being reduced by 5% is fine. Let’s be honest, 5% damage isn’t that big of a deal, and passive minion damage was a bit overbearing in PvP (which is why they did this).
Putrid Explosion I agree with. It will not affect good MMs at all, if you are a good MM you will hit this as often as you did pre-“nerf”. Just means you need to pay attention.
Vampiric Master I need to see numbers on. As it is now, it does not scale at all. It is a flat 72 no matter what. This translates to roughly 100 HP/s in a normal situation. If they nerf it a bit, but then bring back its ability to scale, I see no issue.
The problem I have is that these were basically blanket nerfs to a build type that isn’t that strong overall, and has had none of the big changes that are very necessary to make the build as fun and balanced as it could be.
I’m listening right now.
Where is the preview for this? Just on twitch?
Except for Necro having bad mobility, not really.
MMs and tanky builds don’t care about focus fire or peels at all. Stability isn’t always lacking. Don’t always have high burst.
It is 100% on build. A power MM wants a different partner than a glassy condi build. It completely depends on the builds the Necro is running.
Yep. It increases the chill duration.
It 100% on what build he is running. Condi Necro needs different things than power, which needs different things than MM.
I think Spectral Attunement is fine as is. It is a pretty big buff to all spectral skills, since it doesn’t just increase the LF they give you, they also buff the skill itself.
Tainted Shackles is fine as is.
It is a bug, and it totally sucks.
Also, Dark Path is a projectile. It doesn’t take effect until it reaches your target, not when you cast it. Therefore, it is totally possible to throw out dark path and then leave DS and be ported. In fact there are some “combos” that you can do if you want to make it very difficult for people to get away right when you get there (generally priming a skill with a cast time, such as Dark Pact or Locust Swarm so they cast right as you hit your target).
MMs definitely don’t need much more defense. MMs are pretty well balanced right now, and the general changes/upgrades to the class overall will bring them to balance well enough.
If anything, MMs just need a slight redesign to increase the amount of playstyles they support (instead of being totally focused around minions being disposable meat-shield utilities, which is the only real use atm), and slight redesigns to increase the range of their uses.
Vigor though, would be a crazy buff.
It isn’t that difficult to avoid damage as long as you don’t get aggro.
By using Reaper’s Precision and WH 5, you can and will gain LF while in DS. Against a single target, WH 5, LB spam, and RP with 100% crit chance will give you an average of 2.93 LF per second.
LB spam will proc 1 RP every 3 seconds (on average) – .33% LF/s
WH 5 – 2% LF/s
WH 5 will proc 1 RP every 3 seconds (on average) – .33 LF/s
Total: 2.66% LF/s (on average)
Total w/ Gluttony: 2.926 LF/s
So for the first 10 seconds in DS you only lose 11% LF, leaving you with 89% LF
The rest of your time you are still gaining .363% LF/s from RP off LB spam, so the remaining 89% will take 24 seconds to fully degen.
That allows you 34 seconds in DS. And this time only grows when hitting more than 1 target.
A ton of bugs have been fixed, although there are still some that exist. Not many that I personally find effect me in PvE much.
However, Necromancers are, with exception, not considered “desired” in PvE content. That isn’t to say you can’t perform just fine in a group (especially unorganized ones), but you won’t find any posts asking for a Necro. Power builds are the “meta” right now, either DPS dagger, DPS DS, or minion. I’d suggest you find someone called spoj on the forums and check out the build in his signiture, that is probably the most optimized build.
Other than that, you’re fine to run Necro without many issues in all PvE content. Its not like you’ll get wiped just because you have a Necro there (in fact, certain Necro setups are very good to handle bosses in bad groups).
It isn’t too strong, like at all. All that it does is essentially double your “passive” in DS time, so if you could have sat in DS for 3 seconds, now its 6, all assuming 0 damage being taken.
However, DS has built in mechanics that discourage being a sissy about its use. In fact, you pretty much always want to be just within 600 range of your opponent if you’re in DS, if not closer. That alone will get you targeted and taking damage.
The fact is, you should be rewarded for being able to sustain DS for long periods of time, when passive DS play is already highly discouraged. It is unnecessary to put a second factor on top of that.
MoB works on your melee minions, which are the ones suffering the vast majority of damage. The ranged ones really only take damage from Fetid Consumption, and it will take a significant amount of time for that to end in their death. And then not that long after dying, they’ll be right back up. Minions dying, as long as you don’t allow it to happen too easily, really isn’t a big deal at all in any minion spec.
In the meantime, you are losing very significant benefits from the other big sets. Melandru, for example, would reduce all the damage the minions took from fetid consumption by 25%. But not only does it do that, but it reduces all conditions that you have until then (maybe even meaning your minions never suffer the damage because it expires), and also reduces the stuns on you. Whereas Dwayna’s benefits will very rarely matter to you because of the very high regen uptime that is very common to minion builds.
Vitality isn’t that good for a minion build. You already have a high enough base HP to avoid being spiked down instantly (20k with standard traiting), and very low LF generation comparatively. Toughness scales much better with the significant amount of healing you’ll be getting from minions.
Also from that, the 10% condition duration is fine, but it doesn’t add a ton on its own. Not bad, but not that good either (especially when you can get it from Lyssa in 2 runes).
And the minion just isn’t that good. Its an added Jagged Horror, which will, at best, add a very minor DPS boost (around 170), and then blow up for Death Nova; on a 60s CD, which is the important part.
It just doesn’t really add that much overall, compared to what the other runes can do for you.
Basically a standard minion build.
Just a few notes:
Standard MM in PvE, while fine, under performs compared to other builds. It is much more beneficial to run minions as meatshields using 20-30 in Death Magic and giving up your utility slots, and then use the rest of your gear to go full DPS or full support (full DPS is much better atm). There really isn’t any need in current PvE content to give up so much damage to play content that is very doable as nearly full glass builds.
Bloodthirst is strictly worse than Mark of Evasion or Transfusion in a minion build.
You are playing with fire relying on staff as your only active cleanse.
Besides that, a fine version of the standard MM build.