Guild Wars 2

scabrous.7835:

It’s a L2P issue.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Magnet
^if this is what we’re talking about. For the whole duration of the channel there’s a semi-transparent grayish sway/line between you and engineer. Once you see it, count one second and dodge – no ‘spam random dodges’ involved’.
If you get hit you can still stunbreak before you reach that engineer and avoid getting hit.
I would be concern about more intelligent players that bait out your dodge with tool kit stow just to do it 5 seconds later.

Clearly I meant from stealth.

You can’t avoid chill nades while the person casting that spell is from stealth.

It’s rng whether or not you dodge randomly at the given moment.

I can spend 3 dodges trying not to get hit by anything while the other engi is in stealth but i still get hit by something that i wouldn’t get hit by if the other engi wasn’t in stealth. I think it’s silly. The other engi gets a free hit of anything they choose on you. chill nades, pull, pry bar, shrapnel nades, geomancy. If you are an engi, guard, ranger, or an ele i don’t see what you could do to prevent this except to spam random dodges, but even still you have a very high chance of getting hit.

Animations are hard to see on asurans.

Look very closely and share what you observed. The more i play this game the more i ask myself why. I was originally going to just post the picture and let the community respond, but now i will say whats on my mind. Warriors are op. Their hammer 1 hits for 2-3k crits. They do cc while doing a ton of dmg. 1 mistake and it’s gg for them they can make countless mistakes and they wouldn’t even notice. You guys are trying to fix longbow. The AOE on longbow is ridiculous it covers more then a point…why? sword torment is ridiculous. Fighting an asuran makes dodging that very challenging along with the hammer cc.. I dislike instant heals i think it’s silly. Thiefs come with countless dodges and great mobility while doing dmg. They are preventing mesmer from touching the meta and are definitely hurting ele viability. Mesmers shatters are Ok i guess sometimes it’s hard to counterplay. Mesmer mantras are completely unviable insta cast is silly anyway. Burst S/F or S/D ele has little counter play for the high burst it has, but it’s not viable anyway. Necros are very hard to fight against in a team fight. Basically you have to put pressure on them with a war cuz there is little to no counter play besides that. Guardian is needed in every team just because of the power creep present in the game you need a support class keeping the sustain up. Guards shelter is another silly heal. How are you supposed to counter play? Use engi heal before the guard casts his heal? On to engi. Engi is hard to say what it needs. It’s heal is insta cast, and has a ton of blinds. Ranger i don’t see much wrong with them besides that they only have 1-3 viable builds. All of which are spirit. Engi v necro is never going to happen. If you see a necro coming to your point your best leaving or trying to bunk till someone can replace your spot. Thief v Mesmer is a terrible match up for mesmer. dps guard v power is a very hard fight. I’ve always disliked invulns but whatever. Ok i know this is a bit scattered i just wanted to get this done cuz it’s late, and i didn’t include everything either im just hoping they can do something about what i already listed. Maybe sometime i could make a post suggesting what would fix this.

Saturn.6591:

BoB.6082:

They actually haven’t changed any other vigor on crit traits in other classes.

Actually, they did nerf access to vigor for quite a few classes already.

Not vigor on crit.

They actually haven’t changed any other vigor on crit traits in other classes. The thing is mesmers have to have clones to put out damage. Less dodges means less clones and less survivability. We can’t be pushing out clones and dodge correct things if they bring the nerfs i have stated into effect. Like it’s one big circle. Take one thing out of the circle the circle is ruined.

Also with the upcoming sigil nerf if energy gets nerfed that’s hurting mesmer more then any other class. Severely.

I really hope a dev sees this it’s so frustrating.

Last time I checked and inform me if I’m wrong but i saw that mesmers were getting a nerf on vigor. When playing shatter this strongly reduces the amount of clones we can get out to shatter. It makes it so we have to only use our dodges to dodge deadly atks this is bad because with such low clone production it allows them to get cleaved down before we even have the chance to burst. Nerfing us in this way makes it so we have to either choose to do damage or live. hmmm thief can do both better. It’s just the way that the class is designed that we need clone generators aka vigor.

From what iv’e heard and correct me if i’m wrong is that Deceptive Evasion is getting nerfed in the upcoming patch for shatter mesmers to not make any more clones after the 3 limit. Now i have a problem with this. It can prevent us from making a clone next to a person to stun/do dmg. This hurts us against every matchup. It buffs ai because now ppl can cast their phantasms without having to play skillfully and dodge without worrying about dlting a phantasm. I don’t like this and i would like to know if it is true/if you agree with me.

R45 engineer looking for a solid team
-Toad

Berengar.6951:

coglin.1867:

Its hard to get upset with endurance regen changes when they are limiting all of the other professions access to vigor similarly, as well they are limiting the passive endurance regenerations for them as we. For example the Ranger adept minor trait, “natural vigor” is changing from a passive 50% endurance regeneration to a passive 25% endurance regeneration. For the most part it is pretty clear they are making changes of this nature across the board. Which is why I keep laughing at all of the knee jerk reaction post that complain about it as if it is the end of the world. They are so ignorant to the fact of what is occurring, they post as if Anet is singling us out.

As far as I can tell they are not nerfing the vigor on crit traits for mesmers or guardians.

Ele has the vigor on crit also. and ranger already has a ton of evades built into their weapons. A thief is also very good at evading. warriors have a ton of invuln kitten. guards have a lot of blocks+aegis+vigor.

Keen.9253:

NevirSayDie.6235:

Keen.9253:

NevirSayDie.6235:

Keen.9253:

but if you take a closer look, there is no engineer a top tier pvp tournament.

Chaith, Steamhawk, Got Might, Google, and Ostricheggs disagree.

I was talking about top tier pvpplayers, not guys doing videos…

Moreover what about builds variety ? As all engineer, thoses guys are just using the 2 or 3 builds available for engi, nothing more.

SD berserker ? check
HGH grenadier ? check
Tank miner ? check

other builds are subpar, but sure moving IP to master tier will change everything, yes…

ho wait, no !

Well, you could have just checked the leaderboards. For example, chaith is currently fifth on the team leaderboards. Got might is first on the solo leaderboards. To my knowledge, no engineers in the top 100 team/solo use HGH regularly. One of those players uses SD. None of them use a tanky build.

I’m not saying the proposed changes are amazing, I just felt I needed to provide some clarification. If you feel the changes are bad, explain why. A blanket statement like “there are no engineers in top-tier tournaments,” even if it were true, is usually unhelpful.

So I cannot be here just ranting ?

Everything about engi have been said for long already.

Engi cannot swap weapons because it was supposed to use kits instead. Unfortunately it seems Anet have considered this as an good excuse to design his weapons as a subpar of any other prof weapons, with the lowest dmg and efficiency. It will be nice if kits were OK, but no, only nade and bombs are decent, and TK as utilitaries, and only at the cost of a strong build spec.

You just end with a little bunch of decent builds, greatly relying on gear and runes, etc…

No other prof have to rely as many as engi on gear and runes to buile a decent spec.

Because of this, the traits choices is vital, and moving random traits just put more mess in this. Choosing a traits when you are a warrior, or anything else, is like saying :

“will I pick a little more dmg here, or adding an effect here ? "

Engi choosing traits are more like : " Should I cut my rigth arm or my legs ? "

We need more reliable kits, more reliable weapons, with a decent base dmg or utilities pool to pick in, not a bunch of situational skills who force us to build our role on gear and runes only.

Ho, and fix bug too.

your statement about a warrior making a build is so true (Choosing a traits when you are a warrior, or anything else, is like saying : "will I pick a little more dmg here, or adding an effect here ? ") i had a warrior buddy in ts and he actually had choices for his builds… he was asking me on my opinion for what to choose and they were all great. It came down to his preference on what to choose. we don’t have that preference. What anet is doing is nerfing our only options. Do they think that since everything is bad it opens up build diversity? Our vigor allows us to actually do dps it’s our only form of survive ability when specced to do dmg. Engineers don’t have the handicaps like the other classes when it comes to getting caught in combos/cc/staying on point. We have to dodge to avoid that.

Why nerf engineers? It’s from mediocre/bad players in hotjoins thinking engis are op because we can 1v2 them. i could do the same thing with every other class except IT’S BORING. Generally you see the higher skilled players playing engi because it takes the most skill in the game to play. Sure i could jump on a warrior and 1v2 but it’s boring and im sure most of the skilled players looking for fun go towards engi. Higher skill=better the hotjoin players thing engi=better. we don’t need a nerf.

Voramoz.6790:

Stop trying to fight the vigor NERF. It’s happening. 100% swiftness is a lot already 100% vigor is in need of a NERF.

what class do you play? Because you obviously do not know anything about engi. We need the vigor we don’t have fail safes like the other classes when we get caught in cc/dmg

Ostricheggs.3742:

Voramoz.6790:

Stop trying to fight the vigor NERF. It’s happening. 100% swiftness is a lot already 100% vigor is in need of a NERF.

Yes it is. But it’s in need of a nerf across the board and not just targeted at engineers who are one of the least in need of such a nerf and its a nerf that hits home pretty hard given the fact that our survivability has taken a hit every single patch outside of the last one.

There are a large number of good examples to give for classes that have viable builds with far more dodges than engis can get.

AGAIN, invigorating speed is TOO STRONG. But you’re ignoring the blatant offenders (rangers, acrobatics thieves, energy sigils)

I don’t think it’s too powerful at all, other classes have fail safes for when you get caught. Engis don’t.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Ostricheggs.3742:

AGAIN, invigorating speed is TOO STRONG.

Is it?

I don’t believe the problem is Invigorating Speed. I believe the problem is that Engineers have ready access to Swiftness when swapping kits, which procs Invigorating Speed. Obviously they have no problem with how Vigor on-crit works, because (1) you have to actually be in combat and (2) it requires you to be attacking.

With Speedy Kits, Engineers literally have permanent Vigor. All the time. Inside and outside of combat. Now we’re on level with other classes who have to actually hit stuff to get it “permanently.”

other classes have fail safes for when you get caught. Engis don’t

Deified.7520:

Jon,

My only problem with engineer is the amount of work that needs to be done to do things other classes can do. For example, our main damage source is condition damage. Our two main applications of this is grenade and bomb kit. Both of which are very hard to use compared to our competitors (as of right now it is mostly rangers and necromancers). Grenades are skill shots while bombs have timers and require you to be right next to the person. On top of this is that they produce red circles. Our current meta build is 3 kits and requires a pretty large APM to play effectively.

Now I understand why you’re nerfing speedy kits, however you need to give us something in return. Dodging was our main damage negator. Without it engineer will be a lot harder to play. Don’t get me wrong, we have a few defensive skills. Toolkit, shield (woot this weapon will be required even more now), and elixir S. My problem with elixir S is that our lack of weapon switching means we are pretty much required to have a kit. Not too many kits work well with elixir S, hence why the 3 kit is a meta. Our weapon skills need some majors buff to warrant us moving away from such a dependence on kits, or traits (probably better) that better buff them. P/P is ok, but lacks the ability to negate damage when being focused, especially in WvW. Rifle is just bad because all of its major damaging skills require you to be at close range, and most of the time when you trait to use rifle you lack good defensive skills.

I think if you take care of one messed up mechanic (the infinte vigor which is very bad thing to have), take care of them all. What about a guardians abudance of anti projectile skills, invurnabilities (which have no way of countering), passive healing/aegis that we can’t counter, and just great survivability. What about a thieves insane amount of mobility (stealthing which has no counter, evades which have no counter, leaps, teleports, and lots of blinds).

Quite honestly the way engineer is setup with no weapon switch, it causes most of our skills to be bad. Why are gadgets bad? They not only need to have the ability to make up for a utility slot, but also the lack of a secondary weapon. Turrets? Same story. This is why kits are so popular. You either need to significantly buff toolbelt skills are these skills or buff default weapon stats. Till you do that the meta will also involve primarily kits.

Don’t forget about Warriors berserker stance, or endure pain, or healing sig. Mesmers teleports/fake clones/distortion. Necros death shroud. Rangers weapon evades/for now 50% vigor regen. ( most other classes have stab as well )

I don’t know of any player that complains of speedy kits for having to switch in between kits too much

JonPeters.5630:

Ok I had some time to talk through some of the engineer discussion. Overall Engineer is in a difficult place because they have a ton of good adept traits, not a lot of good master traits, and again a good # of grandmasters so you end up spreading points fairly diversly to get all the good adept traits but lose out on a lot of power by failing to get as many grandmaster traits. Here is what I see a lot of talk about:

Incendiary Powder
Moving this was just something that was a long time coming. It was simply forcing almost every engineer into 10 points in Explosives which was really hurting build diversity. We have tried to counter this by improving other triats that might now be reachable by dropping those 10 points. For example Modified Ammunition, Elixir Infuxed Bombs, and Armor Mods. Now all three of these lines, some more than others, have a strong reason to invest 30 points to match the strong grandmasters already in the other lines.Grenadier, Autodefense Bomb Dispenser, HGH, and Automated Response.

Firearms
We still feel this line is lackluster and in the future some merging and redesigning will take place, but we took the lowest hanging fruit for now. We talked about this line more than any other trait line, but at the end of the day the work and testing required got out of scope for this release. The other spot this line could get a quick pick-me-up is by making at least 2 or 3 of the adept traits in this line good choices.

Invogorating Speed
The indirect nerf to this through speedy kits will reduce some surviveability in the alchemy line, but we felt like it was important given how much other strong stuff that line has.

Master tier traits
Some good suggestions on builds that might open up if we improve some of the master tier traits would be good to see. Here is a pretty decent list of master tier traits that I still find underwhelming.

Explosive Powder, Enhance Performance, Power Showes, Elite Supplies, Deadly Mixture, Potent Elixirs, Packaged Stimulents, Power Wrench, Leg Mods.

Keep the discussion going and let’s see if we can find some room in those traits to bring those trait lines some more into play.

We won’t be able to address all of the concerns, but we will address the most pressing if we can.

Thanks,

Jon

Invogorating Speed
The indirect nerf to this through speedy kits will reduce some surviveability in the alchemy line, but we felt like it was important given how much other strong stuff that line has.
….what? “The indirect nerf” “but we felt like it was important given how much other strong stuff that line has.” what?…. you guys are nerfing engis the wrong way. We need the vigor to dish out as much dps as other classes and still live.

The vigor nerf will destroy us in team fights. In team fights we don’t have fail safes for getting caught. Once we get caught were done. We also don’t have stability to make up for not having vigor. I use 3 kits and 1 stun break. I think the vigor nerf will leave us close to not viable at mid fights since it will be very hard to evade the incoming cc. I’m talking about real top tier tourney teams. Do you expect us to only rain nades the whole team fight…? Most the complaints you are getting are from hotjoin players any good player can 1v2/1v3 them so they are going to think we are op and complain.

The vigor nerf will destroy us in team fights. In team fights we don’t have fail safes for getting caught. Once we get caught were done. We also don’t have stability to make up for not having vigor. I use 3 kits and 1 stun break. I think the vigor nerf will leave us close to not viable at mid fights since it will be very hard to evade the incoming cc. I’m talking about real top tier tourney teams. Most the complaints you are getting are from hotjoin players any good player can 1v2/1v3 them so they are going to think we are op and complain. ANET if you really think we engis need a nerf do it to something other than vigor! IT KEEPS US ALIVE please test how kittenty engi will be before you change it. (we don’t need a nerf, nor do we need a buff)

ENGINEER.

The vigor nerf will destroy us in team fights. In team fights we don’t have fail safes for getting caught. Once we get caught were done. We also don’t have stability to make up for not having vigor. I use 3 kits and 1 stun break. I think the vigor nerf will leave us close to not viable at mid fights since it will be very hard to evade the incoming cc. I’m talking about real top tier tourney teams. Most the complaints you are getting are from hotjoin players any good player can 1v2/1v3 them so they are going to think we are op and complain.

Rezzet.3614:

Kensei.1495:

Nix.3152:

heal signet!! zerker stance!! no nefrs?? ………….. but ye nerf engi’s vigor – gg ((

Even though it’s somethingthat bothers me a lot, i think it was necessary. No one should be able to gain a boon like vigor w/o a cooldown.

if you read you’d notice that thief got nothin but nerfs and engi got some Real Good buffs

bunker and support engis gonna party witht he 50% healing on bombs and 5% hp heal every 3s on turrets HALLELUJAH

The vigor nerf will destroy us in team fights. In team fights we don’t have fail safes for getting caught. Once we get caught were done. We also don’t have stability to make up for not having vigor. I use 3 kits and 1 stun break.

BoB.6082:

Alchemy 15 – Transmute. Increased % chance from 8% to 100%. This effect can now only trigger once every 15 seconds. —- that’s a huge part of our condition removal. We don’t have a lot of condition removal in the first place and it put’s us behind other classes.

The nerf on vigor —- will also be bad. It’s big part of our sustain on point. We can’t take a ton of hits like other classes. if we get hit with any cc we are dead. Any decent team will target an engineer with cc/or anything and they will go down.

IMO engineers are perfectly fine right now besides rng. i agree in changing transmute but we need another form of condition removal.

I think nerfs aren’t needed seeing as they aren’t overpowered.

(I’m running elixir gun, grenade kit, bomb kit, healing turret, and crate. from top to bottom. 30, 5, 0, 20, 15)

Hopefully you take this into consideration.

sPvP view

Engis – truly do NOT need a NERF nor a BUFF. They could stay the same. vigor nerf not good as i explained in my other post.

Rangers – Neeeed to have a higher skill floor and a higher skill cap. Other than that they are fine.

Guardians – truly do NOT need a NERF nor a BUFF. They could stay the same.

Ele – the changes you are making towards them are a step forward.

Thief – everything about them is fine besides their constant evades. You guys see that and are trying to fix it. Good thing

Warrior – they have a great amount of sustain while still dealing great dmg. bad thing

Necro – truly do NOT need a NERF nor a BUFF. They could stay the same.

Mesmer – In need of condi removal and team support. You guys are looking into that which is good

Thank you.

Alchemy 15 – Transmute. Increased % chance from 8% to 100%. This effect can now only trigger once every 15 seconds. —- that’s a huge part of our condition removal. We don’t have a lot of condition removal in the first place and it put’s us behind other classes.

The nerf on vigor —- will also be bad. It’s big part of our sustain on point. We can’t take a ton of hits like other classes. if we get hit with any cc we are dead. Any decent team will target an engineer with cc/or anything and they will go down.

IMO engineers are perfectly fine right now besides rng. i agree in changing transmute but we need another form of condition removal.

I think nerfs aren’t needed seeing as they aren’t overpowered.

(I’m running elixir gun, grenade kit, bomb kit, healing turret, and crate. from top to bottom. 30, 5, 0, 20, 15)

Hopefully you take this into consideration.

I wish we had a choice to choose a map. like before the game actually started it would bring up two different maps to choose from. If you don’t vote within a certain amount of time it recognizes you as afk. (the map vote thing is basically so we don’t have to play on skyhammer…)

I wish we had a choice to choose a map. like before the game actually started it would bring up two different maps to choose from. If you don’t vote within a certain amount of time it recognizes you as afk. (the map vote thing is basically so we don’t have to play on skyhammer…)

Is this still active?

Your always the one agreeing with ideas, or helping someone else. I wan’t to feel like the amazing guy who saved the day. Not the janitor no one know, but helps clean kitten up. I wan’t to be in charge. I want to be the one most remembered.