Honestly, after playing around a little with the update, I think a lot of the worries are overblown, and that many of our (not unreasonable) gripes are simply a result of dealing with change. For all of our nerfs (IC, VI, BF), we’ve been given some nice new tools, not to mention bug fixes with bouncing, berserker, etc.
I was upset with the nerf to IC, but the more I think about it I pretty much always reverted to a near-unkillable phantasm build, and ignored things like torch, boon-stacking, might-stacking, interrupts. etc.. I also disagree that everyone will take 25 in illusions, and in fact this change now opens up a lot more hybrid play: phantasm/interrupt; might-stacking power/condition; gs/staff; and so forth.
The main problem I see is in regard to <80 mesmers. IC is pretty much requisite for levelling, however, and thus I don’t envy having to level a mesmer without what was the most important quality-of-life trait we had.
Tl;dr — We got hit most with a quality-of-life nerf in IC. This is annoying, but all change is annoying at first. I’m starting to see Anet’s thinking, however, and that no longer relying on pure phantasms will broaden our base of builds and require us to become better and more flexible players. But feel free to disagree…
I’m with you but for a different reason. I hate swapping so I just stick to using a focus. It would be great to have a utility speed boost so I can try other offhand weapons.
Honestly, this is really the subtext of my initial post, and pretty much just reaffirms the need for some other source of swiftness, which is so crucial in WvW. (And like Crossplay, I’m often forced to 1vX w focus when I get caught without time to weapon swap.)
Or just make it easy to swap out weapons w/o going into menus.
(edited by Bunda.2691)
Title kind of sums this up, but I’m wondering if this at least warrants a discussion. Because having to constantly go into the menus to swap weapons is just really, really annoying.
Like almost everyone else here, I run staff and sword/x, where x is constantly changing btw focus, pistol, and sword (and sometimes torch). Moreover, in certain situations the staff gets swapped for the GS as well.
From my experience with alts (Guard, thief, engi), I find that this is fairly unique to the mesmer — though please do correct me if I’m wrong. But I guess I just can’t believe that anet intended for this annoying mechanic of constantly switching out weapons from inventory to be a required playstyle. Otherwise they would have made doing so much more simple.
Anyway, just wondering what others think. I still find mesmer the most enjoyable class to play, but I’m constantly frustrated with have to swap out my weapons, especially in WvW where the focus is almost required for traveling the map but is not that useful in 1v1 or 1v2 fights.
Pyro, quick question re: Phantasmal Haste and 20 pts in Illusions.
It’s kind of nitpicking, I admit, but I’ve been running an almost identical build at 10/20/0/30/10 — the only difference being that I find the last ten points a bit more valuable in Dueling instead of Illusions.
I guess my questions is whether phantasmal haste is really that worth it in dungeons ow WvW, where phantasms generally go down quickly anyway, when the second master trait in dueling provides a number of valuable alternatives. I know haste allows you to pull off the double warden perma reflect, but it’s hard to pull off and only useful in a few unique fights. Anyway, why the 20 in Illusions instead of Dueling (with the added bonus of bleed on crits)?
I’ve been running a similar build recently that is akin to Pyro’s PvE Supporting Phantasm Build (which you may want to check out) and thus doesn’t really deserve a write up of its own.
Mine is a 10/20/0/30/10 phantasm build. I generally run sword/x and either GS/Staff depending on the encounter, and I find that the reduced cooldown traits for both the GS and Staff are kind of unnecessary.
The 30 in Inspiration is pretty key b/c so many traits are support orriented (focus reflect, restorative mantra, persisting images, medic’s feedback (awesome for dungeons), etc. — pretty much all the adept and master traits are useful (less so the grandmaster ones)). And the 25 point minor (Phantasmal Strength) is too powerful not to include. Also, with the 20 in Dueling you can run Phantasmal Fury and Blade training, plus you get the bleed on crit, which is powerful in any phantasm build (and you can use pistol cooldown as well, and you have access to deceptive evasion if for some reason you need it, although I rarely ever use it).
Playstyle is similar. Span Mantra of Pain for the heals and try to keep up as many phantasms as possible. I usually run focus and do some warden into leap into blurred frenzys when off cooldown, but let phantasms do most of the work for me.
In my opinion, the 20 in Illusions is unnecessary. Illussionary Elasticity is nice, but doesn’t add that much more to the build. Phantasmal haste too is not really worth it as you can usually resummon phantasms anyway, too.
Also, I only put the final 5 points into Illusions b/c I don’t know where else to put it, and Compounding power doesn’t hurt in a phantasm build either.
Anyway, tldr, try a 10/20/0/30/10 instead. Same effect, but just more powerful and flexible.
Great post, and a great way to develop/discuss new builds. We should do more of these.
I tried this once, and came up with a 10/30/0/0/30 build.
It’s a combination bleed/shatter/confusion build, using mostly the trident and putting out nonstop clones and phantasm and then shattering before putting out more clones.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQBYEB1jrL7qOSFatSPwNe7CB
Gear is mostly berzerker with a few soldiers or knights depending on how squishy you want to be.
Bleeds stack like crazy from the trident auto and the trident clones and phantasm (both trident and spear via the high crit chance), and then throw in the confusion from blinds (trident 2, traited), shatters, and trident phantasm, and then throw in further the high crit chance and added damage from mind rack, combined with decreased shatter recharge via 30 in illusions, and this build is nigh invincible underwater. Spear is useful for phantasm bleeds, when trident is on cooldown, for finishing off weakened foes, placing vortex in an enemy zerg, and for retreating.
Slot skills are discretionary, though I’d probably take decoy if you need to flee and at least one condition removal skill, if not two.
6x rune of the krait. Every stat is incredibly beneficial to this build.
(edited by Bunda.2691)
Title kind of sums up my question, but the basic gist is that I’ve been playing around with some glass cannon builds recently, and am finding that while I have little problem avoiding direct damage, I remain quite susceptible to conditions.
Would the superior runes of melandru (perhaps combined with something like lemmongrass poultry soup) mitigate this problem? Has anyone else played around with this? Is the slight decrease in dmg output worth the added survivability?
Thanks.
In my testing it is no longer a combo finisher, which seems a significant nerf. Not sure if this is a bug or intended, but either way, it should be changed back.
iBerzerker is no longer a combo finisher. Bug, or HUGE nerf to GS?
(edited by Bunda.2691)
Skcamow — yeah, I’m glad to see that others are appreciating the gs/staff combo as well
For trinkets I kind of mix it up depending on the fight (sorry, annoying answer I know, but that just kind of goes with the flexibility of the build). If it’s a fight where I’m not worried about taking damage or where conditions are less important, I’ll go berserkers. If I know I’ll be taking some damage, I’ll cut back on crit/condition for some vitality. I guess I should have mentioned that another downside of the build is that it requires a lot of bag space dedicated to alternate gear.
I think condition dmg is ~700, though again, it mostly depends if you are using full rampager trinkets, which I’ll sometimes switch out.
Build works great in sPvP in 1v1s or 1v2s. Anything more and you start having a little trouble as it can be hard to run if utilities are on cooldown. WvW is a little more annoying as it requires the focus for travel (though focus has lot’s of utility besides), but in zergs or fights the build is great (lets you keep distance, can lay down a ton of ethereal fields and has 2 finishers to spread confusion; there’s nothing like laying down a chaos storm or null field or feedback on a zerg followed by gs4, gs2, and then f2, and watching the mass confusion damage spike).
So after playing around with a lot of builds, and after getting tired of constantly switching up my traits, I’ve settled on what I think is an ideal flex build that, importantly, allows for the use of the greatsword and staff, my two favorite mesmer weapons. Sure, there are times to switch to sword/focus, but for the most part this is a GS/Staff build, of which it seems there are not too many listed at the moment.
The basic idea of the build is that it allows for always useful swappable traits, with a few exceptions, namely GS Training, Deceptive Illusions, and Illusionary Elasticity. It also provides what I think is the near-optimal mix of direct and condition damage.
Basic build idea:
- Traits are 20/20/0/10/20
- shatter clones frequently, but in between shatters can put up 2 phantasms for a few hits as well as clones that apply conditions
- high crit for bleeds, and reasonably high condition dmg for confusion in wvw
- while the 20-level major traits are basically fixed, the 10-level traits can be changed easily depending on situation
- compensate for lack of vit/toughness with sigil of blood and, if you need it, omnomberry pie/ghost
- finally, allows for gs/staff play, which while sacrificing speed, provides for flexible and very survivable mid-far distance play
Domination: 20. Alternate btw I, III, IV, V, but generally always have X (greatsword training)
Dueling: 20. Alternate btw I, II, IV, but always have X (deceptive evasion)
Chaos: 0
Inspiration: 10. Alternate btw I (dungeons) and II, VI (pvp and wvw)
Illusions: 20. Almost all of the first 6 are useful, but almost always use VII (illusionary elasticity)
For armor, I generally run full Rampagers (power/prec/cond) armor with coral orbs, and then alternate btw rampager or berserker jewlery depending on whether I want a little more direct or a little more condition dmg.
For sigils, I use sigil of blood (lifesteal on crit) on the greatsword, and sigil of energy (endurance on swap) on staff. If you find that you need more health, you can run another sigil of blood on the staff too, but I like the additional clone on dodge when I switch.
Utility Skills: Blink and Null field, and then change the third depending on situation (decoy for pvp, arcane thievery when expecting condition dmg, feedback for dungeons and pvp, etc.)
Playstyle: Build is meant to be played at mid-long range (though sometimes getting close with staff to take advantage of chaos armor and pick up some winds of chaos boons is nice too). I generally start with staff, pump out a phantasmal warlock and a clone via phase retreat, cast a chaos storm, switch to GS and Mirror blade (a finisher in field), mind wrack burst, beserker, and then an illusionary wave if I need distance (though you often don’t even need it). Pump out a couple more clones via dodge at range, let the bleeds tick, and it’s often gg. For dungeons or veterans/champions, I generally move back and forth btw GS at distance and staff at close-mid range.
People often note that GS and Staff rely on different stats (power & cond). This is true, but this build allows for both, and while it may not have as high direct damage as full beserker shatter, it provides much more flexibility, and is fun as well. Moreover, it provides a ton of mobility, staff allows for some support, and the build gives you flexibility on when best to shatter (frequently, but not always, as both gs and staff clones remain useful in applying bleeds and cond/boons).
Drawbacks: Every build has some drawbacks, and this one is no exception. It lacks toughness to mitigate direct damage (whereas condition damage can be addressed with sigils, food, and/or utilities), thus requiring constant movement and you to be where the direct damage isn’t, which is what mesmer is best at (clones, blink, etc.). It also lacks weapon-based escapes for when pve fights are going against you (save for f3 shatter). GS and Staff can put some distance btw you and opponents, but almost every other class will be able to catch you if you run (which is why most mesmers run sword/focus and decoy in wvw).
tldr: GS/Staff is completely viable (so long as you keep a sword/focus in bag for travelling and occasional melee). This flex build gets the most out of GS/Staff, and most importantly provides a number of useful swappable traits that allow for direct, condition, or combination damage depending on the encounter.
(edited by Bunda.2691)