Guild Wars 2

Love that you’re finding a good use for Dire gear and running front line. I’ve been having a lot more fun in zerg battles on the front line rather than sniping from the rear, and easily getting 3x the loot bags as well.

I posted a similar build (build link) a little while ago, but relying more on interrupts and runes of perplexity (in all their cheesiness), which is pretty easy to proc in combination with null field.

Quick question: I’ve been switching back and forth between 20/25/25/0/0 and 0/25/25/20/0, between crippling dissipation & confusing enchantments (in domination) and medic’s feedback and warden’s feedback (in inspiration), but usually end up taking the latter. Any reason you prefer the former (i.e. is damage that much higher?), or is it mostly personal preference?

Also, quick suggestion re: sigils: There’s currently a bug with sigil of torment in that the cooldown is separate to other sigil cooldowns. As such, I’ve been using sigils of torment and fire, both of which are aoe, for a ton of additional condi pressure. Throw in a sigil of stamina for full energy on kills, and you can pump out nearly limitless clones on dodge for even more condi stacking.

Finally, awesome combo of mimic and runes of the guardian.

If I’m running in a group larger than 10 and I’m not running PU, I’ll always take mantra of concentration, generally in lieu of decoy. It’s invaluable in any large-scale fight, both as a stunbreak and granting stability. That is grants it to others is just icing on the cake.

Remember that in large battles, the heavy classes are mostly doing cc, not damage. Manta of concentration completely negates this and gives 4x the stunbreak of decoy.

But if, as you said, you’re already getting stability from others, then you’ve kind of answered your own question.

I’ve been toying around with it in my frontline tanky builds. Usually I use it right when the two front lines meet—pop stability via mantra and then pop mimic while the enemy back line is casting all of their ranged attacks. I generally see a bunch of damage numbers fly, but I can’t yet decide if it’s more functional (i.e. provides more group utility) than null field.

We have very few skills that scale well with healing power, so it’d be nice if maybe this one did.

And I agree, unless the ticks are every 2 seconds, a 35 second cooldown is too long.

Sorry, just logged on and was surprised there wasn’t a thread up.

Via reddit:
Mesmer: Signet of the Ether: Signet Passive: Heal yourself based on the number of active illusions you control. Signet Active: Heal yourself and refresh all phantasm skill recharges.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/1s31pc/new_healing_skills_datamined/

This sounds amazing, but way way way overpowered. If recharges = phantasm summon skills, it means we could start a fight with 3 phantasms up immediately. If recharges = phantasm attack, then it’s a little less potent, but would allow a massive burst of 2 izerker and 2 ideulest attacks. Either way, I think it’s a bit too powerful.

I love that mesmer lets us vary our playstyle in so many different ways. In this vein, and in looking for some variety, I’ve been trying recently to play a front line mesmer in guild runs or havoc groups, staying on leader/commander and with the guards and warriors. I’ve been experimenting with soldiers and dire variants—condition builds having higher damage potential but neutered a bit by the aoe condi clears in zergs, power builds doing a bit more targeted damage but having a lot less aoe. And both of course run mantra of concentration and at least one glamor plus timewarp, for group support.

Anyway, I have two questions:
1. Do mesmers have a place on the front line in large GvGs or ZvZ?
2. If so, what has anyone else found to be most effective for front line fighting?

And also, I’d love some feedback on the front line dire, clone-spamming build I am trying out at the moment. I feel like I can shift around 10-15 trait points, but still tinkering with where.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNAsdWlwzSpHVTmGaNJipCB3JFK3yRqQpV6Bvdh0GA-j0CBoOCiEDgk3AEIQZSFRjtsuIasKZRWVDQzATlKp+AKryAUtGA-w

MIrra.3604:

Bunda.2691:

You’re totally correct. Mesmers, by virtue of the way their profession works, do more damage than thieves while stealthed.

But, conversely, which profession does more damage while not stealthed?

In the end, it’s kind of a wash. As it should be.

You dummy, the Memser does more damage of course.

You see, to do a Backstab, you need oh guess what? Stealth.

I assume you’re being sarcastic, in which case well done. If not, however, than you do realize that, if you classify Backstab as damage in stealth (which I wasn’t), then thieves are doing a lot more damage in stealth—and this whole argument is rendered moot.

MIrra.3604:

Part of the burst that is non stealth is CnD and Mug which doesn’t even do 1/2 the damage of Mesmer BF+Shatter.

Also, are you implying that clones/phant stop attacking while you’re not stealthed?

And again, I assume you are being sarcastic. A theif can out-burst a mesmer any day, save perhaps for a double mind wrack combo, which is really hard to pull off and can be done at most once every 90 seconds. But besides, full shatter builds cannot run PU without completely gimping their damage output. There are very few direct damage PU builds, and they are all phantasm reliant. Kill their phantasms, or use lots of blind, and the build is completely neutered.

Travlane.5948:

if u take 1 mesmer and 1 thief with roughly the same power crit crit % etc etc the mesmer will always have higher DPS. period.

This may be true, and for the sake of the argument I’ll ignore that mesmer’s sustained dps is entirely phantasm/clone dependent (kill phantams —> mesmer’s dps nosedives; or in condition builds, don’t kill clones --> dps nosedives again). But dps alone is not the only factor in fights. CC, positioning, forcing cooldowns, evades, stealth, timing, etc. are all as important—and d/p or p/d thieves have the ability to use other skills to mitigate their lack of sustained dps.

Quick question: I bet a d/d sb condition thief has higher sustained dps than a d/p or p/d power build. Does that make the condi build better?

Travlane.5948:

Bunda.2691:

Travlane.5948:

Bunda.2691:

I play mostly mesmer these days (though not blackwater), so thought I’d weigh in. That build—blackwater, PU/condition—is quite good, but it has a few huge weaknesses, notably conditions and cc. It also has zero chase ability. When I played that build, I could give many thieves a good fight … until they backed off. And this is the thief’s major class-defining quality: the ability to choose and dictate fights. Few other classes have the mobility and escape, save maybe GS warriors and some mesmers (though importantly not blackwater!).

I agree that Prismatic Understanding is powerful—perhaps a bit too powerful. But like all other builds across all characters, it has weaknesses. For example, necros, engis, and, yes, condition thieves can all wreck it. Mesmer invisibility is powerful in short fights, but as the fight goes on and cooldowns catch up with you, stealth is much harder to achieve. Good thieves know this. They hit hard, bait out mesmers’ invisibility, and, most importantly, know the terrain and where the mesmer is likely to go. Save your high-power skills for when our invis is on cooldown, use blind if you see phantasms being summoned (in fact, use blind liberally), but be prepared to pull back if you are getting low on health. Staff/scepter mesmers cannot really chase or cc you, nor do they have anything (except chaos storm, which is on a long cooldown and doesn’t do much damage) to even hurt you in shadow refuge (and they have nothing to knock you out of it).

In short, patient thieves can wreck PU mesmers. Those that go all in and spam skills, however, will have much more trouble.

PU power builds, on the other hand, are very phantasm reliant. Dodge and then kill the phantasms, and you’ll find that the mesmer has little else to do significant damage. I agree this can be hard against good mesmers. But good mesmers will kill me too, as good players should.

Last but not least, keep in mind that for mesmers, stealth (and PU) is a crutch. You give up a lot of offense to take it, and it provides high survival in exchange for significant damage output (or, in stealth/condi builds, mobility and cc). The best mesmers use very little stealth, because PU gimps a lot of other builds. This even further allows others—and thieves, above all—to dictate the terms of fights against stealth mesmers.

again…coversation yyou totally missed. its not about thief vs mesmer or mesmer not having or having weaknesses. its about stealth and the fact mesmers AI does the work and can even do dmg themselves while in stealth and never get revealed. thief however can do nothing while in stealth or it reveals him. period. thats not fair. PU is a build for dummies. literally….. heres the ideas……stay invis let the computer do the work mostly….and dodge roll when u need to while stealth isnt up…atleast til you entere stealth again then just continue eating popcorn.

So your complaint is with … the concept of mesmers?? That they cast (mostly) static clones that do a bit of damage?? I may as well condemn thieves guild (how dare you cast AI-controlled minions) or caltrops (How dare you cast a skill that has the audacity to, on its own, harm me if I decide to step in its red circle).

PU may be a bit powerful, I’ll give you that, but it’s still a crutch. You may not kill them, but you shouldn’t die to PU condition builds. Also, remember that revealed is meant primarily to prevent perma-stealth on thieves, not mesmers. I agree that it is a crude solution, but keep in mind that it was designed for thieves, not mesmers.

seems only a few adept players/experienced players get it.

thief AI = follow player while stealthed
mesmer AI= still attack direct and conditions while player stealthed

best AI = mesmer

thief = no dmg while stealthed without causing reveal
mesmer = can do damage while stealthed

best dps in stealth without reveal = mesmer

Thief = has to set up attacks in stealth and atleast 1/2 miss while playing defensively.
mesmer = ranged and don thave to set up but only play defensive/

You’re totally correct. Mesmers, by virtue of the way their profession works, do more damage than thieves while stealthed.

But, conversely, which profession does more damage while not stealthed?

In the end, it’s kind of a wash. As it should be.

isendel.5049:

Christmas is getting closer.

It would be a shut up and take my money if I could buy in the gem store an upgrade that allow me, after I claimed for my guild a tower, to decorate it in a Xmas style..

Such an awesome idea. Why not take it a step further and award guild influence the longer said tower is held. Or if not guild influence, some other non-gold cosmetic reward, like the visuals of the tower are improved the longer it’s held. (This would also have the added effect of encouraging defense and breaking apart zergs). Can you imagine a guild staying up for days straight so they can protect and upgrade Durios with a flashing neon guild insignia or a flying guild balloon?

Travlane.5948:

Bunda.2691:

I play mostly mesmer these days (though not blackwater), so thought I’d weigh in. That build—blackwater, PU/condition—is quite good, but it has a few huge weaknesses, notably conditions and cc. It also has zero chase ability. When I played that build, I could give many thieves a good fight … until they backed off. And this is the thief’s major class-defining quality: the ability to choose and dictate fights. Few other classes have the mobility and escape, save maybe GS warriors and some mesmers (though importantly not blackwater!).

I agree that Prismatic Understanding is powerful—perhaps a bit too powerful. But like all other builds across all characters, it has weaknesses. For example, necros, engis, and, yes, condition thieves can all wreck it. Mesmer invisibility is powerful in short fights, but as the fight goes on and cooldowns catch up with you, stealth is much harder to achieve. Good thieves know this. They hit hard, bait out mesmers’ invisibility, and, most importantly, know the terrain and where the mesmer is likely to go. Save your high-power skills for when our invis is on cooldown, use blind if you see phantasms being summoned (in fact, use blind liberally), but be prepared to pull back if you are getting low on health. Staff/scepter mesmers cannot really chase or cc you, nor do they have anything (except chaos storm, which is on a long cooldown and doesn’t do much damage) to even hurt you in shadow refuge (and they have nothing to knock you out of it).

In short, patient thieves can wreck PU mesmers. Those that go all in and spam skills, however, will have much more trouble.

PU power builds, on the other hand, are very phantasm reliant. Dodge and then kill the phantasms, and you’ll find that the mesmer has little else to do significant damage. I agree this can be hard against good mesmers. But good mesmers will kill me too, as good players should.

Last but not least, keep in mind that for mesmers, stealth (and PU) is a crutch. You give up a lot of offense to take it, and it provides high survival in exchange for significant damage output (or, in stealth/condi builds, mobility and cc). The best mesmers use very little stealth, because PU gimps a lot of other builds. This even further allows others—and thieves, above all—to dictate the terms of fights against stealth mesmers.

again…coversation yyou totally missed. its not about thief vs mesmer or mesmer not having or having weaknesses. its about stealth and the fact mesmers AI does the work and can even do dmg themselves while in stealth and never get revealed. thief however can do nothing while in stealth or it reveals him. period. thats not fair. PU is a build for dummies. literally….. heres the ideas……stay invis let the computer do the work mostly….and dodge roll when u need to while stealth isnt up…atleast til you entere stealth again then just continue eating popcorn.

So your complaint is with … the concept of mesmers?? That they cast (mostly) static clones that do a bit of damage?? I may as well condemn thieves guild (how dare you cast AI-controlled minions) or caltrops (How dare you cast a skill that has the audacity to, on its own, harm me if I decide to step in its red circle).

PU may be a bit powerful, I’ll give you that, but it’s still a crutch. You may not kill them, but you shouldn’t die to PU condition builds. Also, remember that revealed is meant primarily to prevent perma-stealth on thieves, not mesmers. I agree that it is a crude solution, but keep in mind that it was designed for thieves, not mesmers.

eozturk.7205:

PU builds are excellent example of showing bad players in the game. If you can’t manage to beat a PU build mesmer, you are doing something wrong. L2P issue.

I wouldn’t necessarily go that far. There are some really powerful PU power based builds. But yes, if you are fighting a staff, scepter/torch condition build, you may not win, but you can really easily not die to them. Not saying that’s the same, but it is something.

I play mostly mesmer these days (though not blackwater), so thought I’d weigh in. That build—blackwater, PU/condition—is quite good, but it has a few huge weaknesses, notably conditions and cc. It also has zero chase ability. When I played that build, I could give many thieves a good fight … until they backed off. And this is the thief’s major class-defining quality: the ability to choose and dictate fights. Few other classes have the mobility and escape, save maybe GS warriors and some mesmers (though importantly not blackwater!).

I agree that Prismatic Understanding is powerful—perhaps a bit too powerful. But like all other builds across all characters, it has weaknesses. For example, necros, engis, and, yes, condition thieves can all wreck it. Mesmer invisibility is powerful in short fights, but as the fight goes on and cooldowns catch up with you, stealth is much harder to achieve. Good thieves know this. They hit hard, bait out mesmers’ invisibility, and, most importantly, know the terrain and where the mesmer is likely to go. Save your high-power skills for when our invis is on cooldown, use blind if you see phantasms being summoned (in fact, use blind liberally), but be prepared to pull back if you are getting low on health. Staff/scepter mesmers cannot really chase or cc you, nor do they have anything (except chaos storm, which is on a long cooldown and doesn’t do much damage) to even hurt you in shadow refuge (and they have nothing to knock you out of it).

In short, patient thieves can wreck PU mesmers. Those that go all in and spam skills, however, will have much more trouble.

PU power builds, on the other hand, are very phantasm reliant. Dodge and then kill the phantasms, and you’ll find that the mesmer has little else to do significant damage. I agree this can be hard against good mesmers. But good mesmers will kill me too, as good players should.

Last but not least, keep in mind that for mesmers, stealth (and PU) is a crutch. You give up a lot of offense to take it, and it provides high survival in exchange for significant damage output (or, in stealth/condi builds, mobility and cc). The best mesmers use very little stealth, because PU gimps a lot of other builds. This even further allows others—and thieves, above all—to dictate the terms of fights against stealth mesmers.

PU is powerful. Maybe a bit too powerful, if only slightly. (How about swapping aegis with swiftness, or something small like that?) But that is beside the point, at the moment. My bigger question is why is the PU grief coming from pretty much one source: Thieves?

We all now that certain builds counter certain builds. And no build should be able to counter all others. That is the beauty of this game. So when I hear backstab/heartseeker thieves complain, I see the issue simply as a rock beats paper scenario. Blackwater mesmers have high toughness—this counters thieves’ direct damage. But these builds have crap vitality and bad coni removal, as we all know. Condition thieves (not to mention engis, necros, warriors, etc.) destroy blackwater. And in addition, dagger thieves can just leave the fight and not worry about being chased. I just don’t totally understand the frustration.

And besides, at the end of the day, skill really matters most. But no one who is able to pick and choose fights at will should be able to complain when they can’t win.

Now hear me out for a second. If us WvWers had more things that we could buy in the gem store, would aNet pour more attention and developer support into WvW? Because I don’t mind buying gems if they are for nice things, but at present there is very little in the gem store that WvWers want or need.

Of course they have to be cosmetic or other items that don’t affect gameplay, but what are some things that we’d like to see aNet put in the gem store? Again, operating under the assumption that more gem purchases —> more development of WvW.

I’ve been trying to run some frontline tank builds recently, and I’m wondering what utilities others are taking. Veil is usually on my bar, but in addition the following are all useful:

- mantra of concentration
- mantra of resolve
- null field
- decoy/blink/mirror images for additional stunbreak and repositioning

Anyway, what do people generally use? And also, is illusion of life of any value?

nb. Medic’s feedback rocks. My new favorite trait.

Totally agree. You give up a ton of damage potential by going torch instead of pistol. Maybe I’m just not as good, but feel like using pistol is fully committing to fights, while torch gives you a little more leeway in picking or choosing battles.

Where torch really does shine, however, and why I’ll continue to take it over pistol, is that it frees up that last slot on the utility bar that you would otherwise use for condi removal. Now, in addition to the standard blink and decoy, I can take Mantra of Distraction for similar daze/might to pistol. Or Signet of domination for daze/condi damage. Or any of our other awesome skills.

When I run pistol (which is great too, and I’m no way saying it’s less superior), I find I always have to dedicate that third slot to condition removal. I know BlackDevil’s (really good) build tries to get around that by going 10 in Inspiration, but I still find that one condi removal tied to heal to be a bit limiting, for my personal taste. Sure, you can go mantra, but ether feast is just so good.

Anyway, both are great. And these builds are all so similar that it really just comes down to personal preference and skill.

BlackDevil.9268:

Eww.. I can’t imagine this build without pistol… Torch is just giving you 1 stealth with a little bit damage.
Pistol gives amazing damage and suits perfect in combo’s for your phantasm to actually hit their full attack.

I hear you, and it’s really just personal preference. Given that I’m running nearly full glass, I just find the extra stealth and condi removal of traited torch to be incredibly useful. Yeah, I sacrifice some offence, but I’m hooked on the survivability.

Qaelyn.7612:

I’m still working on my “Blackdevil/Blackwater hybrid” so to speak, but it looks somewhat interesting so far. The basic configuration is Blackdevil’s build but 20/20/30/0/0, adding the GS boost and dropping Mender’s Purity, then dealing with conditions using sigils, food and possibly the mantra if need be.

I’ve settled on a 20/20/30 Greatsword & Sword/Torch hybrid and love it. Zerker armor, Rabid trinkets w Zerker (Ruby) jewls. Zerker GS and Rabid Sword/Torch. It uses the standard Blackwater build but adds a ton of CC and power damage (and retains decent condition/bleed pressure). I find too that people are unused to it and unprepared for the damage spike of iZerker + blurred frenzy + mind wrack. Plus the GS gives good might stacking and chasing.

Also, use the 20 in Domination on the Torch, not the Greatsword. Condi clearing plus more invis is invaluable.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Bunda.2691:

How much might might a mesmer ignite in a quite tight daylight fight?

A Mesmer might ignite not much might in a fight, but he borrows his opponents might

Meh. He might.

I’m not sure I accept your answer, forcing me to declare this round a victory for myself. So at present, after two rounds, the score remains tied:
Pyro: 1
Bunda: 1

Round Three

As I was heading towards SMC,
I blinked past three necros, ranger and engi.
Minionmasters they were, plus the ranger had pets,
And the crazy old engi was using turrets.
So…
Turrets, pets, players and minions times three,
How many should be heading towards SMC?

Pyroatheist.9031:

• 1
  • Blink up to the platform so that you can take a breather and watch them as they unstealth.
  • Spider apples of course, the only type in GW2. Orchards always = spiders
• 2
  • Hope that the tuna runs like the moa when you press 5
    • Also, try and get onto land and see if I morph onto a moa
  • Depends on if you count dorsal, lateral, and tail, or just one or two of those
  • I’ve got a good recipe for yellow fin
• 3
  • Inspiration:45 Illusions:90 Midnight: 36 Domination: 45 (probably closeish)
  • It’s for a sassy finger waggling of course! Those thieves have to be reprimanded now and then…

Edit: Can confirm, have been stumped by Fay

Well done sir. You’ve proved up to the challenge … for the moment, at least. More stumpers to follow.

In the interim, however, I raise the stakes and puzzle you this:

How much might might a mesmer ignite in a quite tight daylight fight?

He knows too much. I call Pyro OP. Perhaps maybe one of us can actually stump him.

Scenario 1: You’re trying to solo a mesmer/thief duo in the north east ruins. You notice the mesmer is running condition duration food, but you can’t see the thief’s build. As you approach they both stealth. So two questions. 1) What do you do? 2) What type of fruit trees are in the orchard?

Scenario 2: You’re being chased by an enemy zerg, and in order to avoid them you jump into the water. But they still chase you! Just when you think you’re in the clear, someone Polymorph Tunas you. The nerve! Again, two questions. 1) What’s your next move? 2) How many fins does the tuna have, and what type of tuna are you (Yellow Fin? Albacore? Skipjack?)?

Scenario 3: Without checking, what are the cooldowns on our signets? And also, what does the single pointed finger on the signet of inspiration signify? I’m number one? I voted in the recent Afghan election? My nose needs picking? Please clarify.

BlackDevil.9268:

Condition shatter builds in raid WvW it can be used quite good actually. And what? Trait 5 points in illusions and you got your 6 stacks confusion. Doesn’t seem really bad imo.
Also builds that rely on boon stacking it’s pretty good with retal on use.
Other than that it deals a bit damage in zerker builds.

I guess I was a tiny bit too harsh … though not by much. But even if it has a bit of use in a condition shatter build (which, it must be said, is not the most commonly run), it still has basically no utility in most builds—not something you really want from a class mechanic.

Useless. It should be changed. I propose merging it with Mind Wrack and opening up F2 for something else.

In condition builds, Cry is next to useless. In any other build it’s completely useless.

I know this has been mentioned before, but every other class can utilize its class mechanic for any build type. Mesmers, on the other hand, can at best utilize 3/4 of our class mechanic, and for many builds much less.

Conceptually, shatters are an awesome idea. But a change to Cry of Frustration could start the process of better refining them.

Anyway, I can’t really think of how Cry should be changed. I think ideally it should be merged with Mind Wrack, thus giving F1 a little utility for both power and condi builds. This would leave F2 open for something new. Maybe condition clears? Boon strips? AOE Might? There are some good ideas within our traits, but unfortunately they’re only used in very specific builds, when they could easily be included in everyone’s.

Also, please do let me know if there are good uses for F2 that I am currently missing.

I use two builds, one for front line, one for back line.

Front line: Full Dire gear (yes, dire!), 10/20/20/20/0, sword/focus & staff, sigils of stamina (these are important). This is a front line condition clone spammer with near constant dodge and lots of reflect and cc. You get lots of bags, too.

Back line: Full Zerker, standard 20/20/30/0/0, greatsword & sword/torch. High mobility, support, and dps with lots of PU invis for escapes.

I can post builds if anyone wants.

Scepter suggestion: Add .5 seconds of chill to the third auto attack. On its own it’s not much, but once you have three clones out, it starts to apply some serious CC pressure.

One other thing to note. If the problem is over wealth disparity, than that is an entirely different issue, and should not be conflated with the existence of the TP itself. As others have noted, no one wants to get rid of stock markets just because some people can make a lot money on them.

What society does try to arrest, however, and what is a greater concern in all economies (both real and virtual), are the various effects of wealth concentration. In the real world we see this play out in the rapid increase in prices of elite college tuition and real estate in Manhattan and London—things that by nature are limited in supply. But this is also why we have progressive income taxes and so forth, and I’d be happy to debate anyone over why they are generally not high enough. But in GW2, the only parallel seems to be legendaries, which are also limited by the low precursor drop rates. Hence the increase in legendary prices as the wealthier players accumulate more gold.

If legendary weapons had higher stats, this would be a problem. But they and all other high-priced goods are merely cosmetic, and have no effect on anyone’s gameplay. As such, their price inflation is not really problematic.

What would be problematic is if players used their massive wealth to corner markets or inflate prices—but JS has repeatedly assured us that this isn’t happening. And I’m sure he will make every effort to undermine those attempts if they occur.

In short, the TP is not inherently problematic. Wealth inequality could be a problem, but Anet has done a nice job of mitigating its effects by providing multiple and relatively inexpensive avenues towards functionally identical gear. And while some of us (myself included, at times) might find the hoarding of gold to be icky, we must accept that at the end of the day, it’s not harming our own personal gameplay in any real way.

Lampshade.7569:

I have not once written anything even remotely related to the difficulty of TP gaming. Just FYI though, I have done so successfully and then decided not to continue, because I found it wrong.

This is the issue here. You (and many others) find “playing” the TP wrong. But as I wrote (more eloquently) in another thread, this is simply a matter of opinion, of which you are welcome to (and should be commended for) do/doing what you think is right.

But conversely, neither should your value judgments detract from anyone else’s fun, so long as their fun is not harming you in any way.

In the case of the TP, “playing” it does not harm anyone else’s ability to “play” the game in the manner they choose. You may not like someone speculating in the market, but similarly I may not like someone griefing others in the Obsidian Sanctum. Yet each is a small subset of a good thing, in these cases a robust and liquid economy and an open-world PvP arena.

To those who don’t like the trading post, then, I ask only one question: How has it harmed you and your playing experience? If it has, then by all means let the devs know, and they should try to remedy this problem. But if it really hasn’t, than accept that the debate is simply one over values, not mechanics.

Zaxares.5419:

Ohoni.6057

The trading post should be a utility, not a game.

I believe they should be allowed to continue to use the TP as their “battleground” if that’s the experience they enjoy in the game.

The issue at debate here is really over what it means to “play” Guild Wars 2. Some view the game as fighting/exploring only, and thus that the TP is but a means to facilitate this form of playing. Others see GW2 as a sandbox world in which everything interactive can/should be pushed, pulled, and toyed with, including the trading post. Herein lies the debate.

But because this is an inclusive game with a large player base, everyone needs to realize that each aspect really does make the other parts of the game more enjoyable, and Anet deserves commendation for creating such a functionally interconnected and dynamic world. Having fun “playing” the TP requires others to go out into the game world and “earn” loot drops. Conversely, a liquid and dynamic trading post makes “playing” the open world more fun, by allowing easy access to almost any good or item.

And at the end of the day, the point here is to have fun, correct? Why not let both TP and open-world players have their fun, so long as neither is actively harming the other? Because, if you think about it, both open-world and trading-post gameplay are just different ways of pushing different buttons on the keyboard. Those who spend time mastering combos and professions and learning engagements are rewarded with achievements and drops. Those who spend time studying markets and mastering the TP interface are (and should be) rewarded as well.

Has anyone tried out Dire gear for running front line in the zerg?

This is a little bit of theorycrafting as I haven’t yet tried it out, but if you combine dire with sigils of stamina and energy for near constant dodging, combined with high condition damage and all of the condition-on-clone-death traits, I’d think you would have pretty good survivability in the midst of the front-line guards and warriors. And with the constant kills in a zerg vs. zerg fight, you could clone spam like crazy with basically unlimited endurance. Combine this with reflects and glamours and you have the makings of a front-line condition tank.

Anyway, I really want to find a use for my dire gear, so thought something like this might potentially work.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQRArf8dlwziqHWTmGaNJi5DB3JFM3yRqQpVmBvdhA-jEyAouBRTMCE9J0ZyioxWNLiGruBTxSEV7RKiWtUAwsGA-w

Anyone else found a good use for dire yet?

akanibbles.6237:

What is prime time? is this when servers are balanced?

what if a server has more players during what you think of as non-prime time… is this the prime time for that server?

This is where Anet comes in. I presume they have the data to determine this. (That said, I’d assume something like 09:00 to 22:00 PST (17:00 to 06:00 GMT) on most North American servers.)

I guess the real question that needs to be asked of non-prime-time WvW players (SEA, Oceanic, etc.) is: What would encourage you to move to one of the gold league T2 servers?

Conversely, to those prime-time players in silver and bronze: Would you be ok with matches that gave greater value to points scored during prime-time hours?

Talissa Chan.7208:

Imbalance is a dynamic variable, you never know how many will show up at any given time, therefore its unfixable.

But if anyone is in a position to know this, it is Anet. And thus they could use their information to encourage more balanced coverage.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Population doesn’t have to be equal amongst all servers. However, each server should have (at least) 4 other servers that have comparable population/coverage. This is a much easier objective than balancing out all servers’ populations and is good enough that each server has a variety of good matchups.

Agree entirely. And this is why I made the post. I’m assuming that there is enough player data to make rough assumptions about playtime, etc. And similarly, I assume that there are enough off-peak players spread throughout silver/bronze leagues who, if properly incentivized, might switch to one of the bottom three gold-league servers.

While this might lead to cries of server favoritism, it could also lead more towards balance—specifically, 3 balanced leagues.

Anet no doubt has the player data re: server populations at various times. Given that they have this data, what if (after the season) they encouraged certain players/guilds on certain servers to transfer to others in order to balance out populations? Free transfers (to specific servers), or even small incentive gifts, might encourage those on the fence.

The result I think we’d like to see is six competitive servers in the gold league, and nine each in the silver/bronze leagues. While this solution might lead to an exodus of off-peak players from silver and bronze, Anet could respond by somehow prioritizing peak hours in the other leagues (say, by having ppt worth more during peak hours and less during off hours).

Anyway, just a thought. While this would lead to changes, such changes are needed given population/time imbalances at the moment.

Pyroatheist.9031:

fadeaway.2807:

Is the 20 in domination really worth it when you could get 200 condi dmg and illusionary elasticity? With the extra bounce considered your overall condition dps goes up by almost 25 percent, likely to be even higher when you consider that you attack faster than your clones. In addition to that you get afreebie 6x confusion shatter and extra confusion duration thrown in.

Is that really worth less than 20 percent cd on torch and the measly condi removal?

20 in domination provides many things.

• 20% increased condition duration
• Crippling dissipation (one of the basic qualities of this build)
• Condition removal on torch
• Decreased cooldown on access to a stealth

20 in illusion provides very little.

• 200 Condition damage
• ….that’s it

Extra bounce doesn’t work on clones, and that’s not the main condition dps of this build anyway, in addition to being inconsistent. If you shatter in this build, you’re playing it wrong unless you’re shattering for an interrupt or defensively. For that reason, shatter cooldown doesn’t matter, and neither does confusion on shatter.

Pyro is right about the 20 in illusions being essentially worthless. However, you can put them in Inspiration instead for +200 vitality, healing, and condition (with scepter). Or 10/20/30/10/0 if you want to keep crippling dissipation. There are a couple builds out there that use these instead of the 20/20/30.

Personally, I’m looking forward to running a 0/20/30/20/0 once the update arrives.

I could see a move from 20/20/30 builds to 0/20/30/20/0 builds, especially if the scepter is buffed. Cleanse on heal plus Scepter cooldowns (plus the 200 condi) seems a reasonable trade for going 20 into domination.

Honestly, just run whatever build you want and use the following food:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Food#Swiftness

The swiftness stacks, so you can go kill a bunch of mobs and then have 2+ minutes of swiftness. And the food is dirt cheap too.

Just wanted to throw this into the mix.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Any-advice-on-a-Power-Cripple-PU-build/first#post3157868

Only thing of note is that in 1v1 to 1v3 I use Scepter/Torch. Anything larger I generally switch to Sword/Torch for the cleave. And if I see a solo necro/engi coming I’ll swap into cleansing conflagration as well. Otherwise, build is what it is.

Also, I know this isn’t the proper forum, but I’m happy to help test if you need help. I’m on TC maybe every other evening PST (mostly in WvW), and god knows I have like every armor set and weapon/stat variant at this point too. (Also, I need to get around to joining the mesmer guild too.)

Now if only i didn’t pick such a silly name (bunda???) when I registered for the game…

Thanks for feedback.

Yeah, I play with sword sometimes as well when outnumbered (and in zergs), but like scepter more for roaming. I feel build gives me enough speed/stealth/control to dictate terms of fight re: positioning.

Hey, so I’m looking to enter the BOTM contest, and wondering if anyone wouldn’t mind helping to test/refine a build I’ve been using. It’s somewhat similar to others here (but honestly, at this point, what isn’t?), but I’ve been having a good amount of success with it.

Name: As yet undecided, probably something to do with cripple

This is a power-focused cripple build which relies on PU for defense and puts out near-perma cripple, weakness, and retal.

It’s a 20/20/30 Greatsword & Scepter/Torch (or sword/torch) with a mix of Zerker, Knight’s, and a little Rabid, with damage about 80/20 direct vs. condition. (I swap in more knights for running with zerg.)

But the unique(er) element, I think, is the playstyle. Basically, the goal is to get two phantasms up and then to spam the hell out a single clone, constantly overwriting the clone (which should be sticking to target) and taking full advantage of the clone-on-death traits. I’ve managed to easily get upwards of 15 seconds of cripple and weakness doing this, and they can be constantly reapplied. It also allows swapping into torch trait if you need better condi clearing.

It takes the best elements of Blackwater and phantasm builds, but adds some more burst and control, and takes full advantage of retaliation as well.

Anyway, I’d love some input or help testing it out. I’m on the fence about swapping scepter for sword, too, and wondering if anyone has an opinion. Also, I can’t really figure out the min/max element of whether the condition damage is incidental enough that I should just go all out power and ignore the rabid.

Thanks.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNAR7flwzKqHUTmGb9IipHBnvBckUUapWJF62FC-jUDBYLAINRm+AmABiEBI5BKBiIjtMsIasqaA6FYqUJV5KyeDKrSBAzYA-w

nb. sorry for the abbreviations in the title. kitten those character limitations.

edit: subbed in correct build. sorry.

edit2: swapped in sigil of hydromancy on scepter (after 25 stacks, of course). been playing with it tonight and I’m never dying.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

So why not embrace the fast death as a viable zerg aoe build? Current traits give a 33% chance of a weak bleed and 3 second of confusion in an aoe. That doesn’t cut it in a zerg. That’s why I think a new trait for power bombs on clone death would help Mesmers in zergs but having it do less damage than shatters or phantasms would prevent the build from being OP in other formats.

After thinking about this a bit more, I think it would have to be a new trait. The blackwater build is rather strong as is. The trade off should probably be pick this trait or pick PU. Since 20 dueling would be pretty mandatory for this build, maybe 30 domination? 30/25/0/0/15 or 30/20/10/X/X?

I think this is an excellent idea, and would give us some much needed aoe in zergs. And I think your are completely right that Domination Grandmaster is the line to put it in. PU/DE/This would be just be too potent.

edit: changed master to grandmaster

I actually run a similar hybrid build to the OP’s (though it’s probably 75/25 power/condition) and I find it work very well in WvW.

That said, I can see why this thread is turning people off. Perhaps it’s time to let it die and then let the build stand (or fall) for itself.

I mentioned this in a previous post but I think it got buried in a wall of text. But shouldn’t our three main builds be:

1) Phantasm (power and condition)
2) Shatter (power and condition)
3) Clone-Spam (power and condition)

This gives us six distinct options—two versions each of three build types. And then each can be tailored further to boon share, support, glam, control, interrupt, etc.

Sorry for repeating.

JonPeters.5630:

Overall I think this a good small step for a profession that has a lot of roles it can fill fairly uniquely. I think this might give us 3 strong mesmer build archetypes.

1) Shatter
2) Phantasm
3) Mantra

Jon — thanks so much for engaging the mesmer community. Really speaks volumes about your team’s commitment to game and players alike.

My one bit of feedback (in addition to my agreement with you about the scepter) is that I’m not really sure there can be a “mantra build.” Mantras are much better used to fill out holes or add utility to other builds, as a build solely with mantas is missing out on so much of what make the mesmer a mesmer.

Instead, I see three main builds—or at least what should be aspired to—as:

1) Phantasm
– Direct Damage
– Condition
2) Shatter
– Direct Damage
– Condition
3) Clone Spamming
– Direct Damage
– Condition

This paradigm gives mesmers six distinct builds (plus numerous hybrids) that can still be tailored in various ways (damage, support, aoe, single target, healing, etc.). But these three seem to be the main categories.

As of right now, here is (I think) how things stand:

Direct Damage Phantasm Build: Viable
Condition Phantasm Build: Not at all

Direct Damage Shatter Build: Viable
Condition Shatter Build: Not viable

Direct Damage Clone Spammer: Viable
Condition Clone Spammer: Viable

Right now, four of the six are playable. If all six options could be viable, it would add significant diversity. Mantras can help by providing some of these builds parts of what they are missing, but I don’t think too many changes would be needed to make all six possible.

And really, only two things would need to be changed to make this happen.

1) Condition Damage Phantasms. This is a must, and would add a ton of diversity to phantasm builds. Torch/Staff are the most likely candidates.

2) Condition-based Shatters. Since confusion is no longer really viable, F2 needs to be buffed, and perhaps a trait added that gives F1 some condition oomph (bleed, torment, etc.).

Honestly, mesmer is in a good place. A few changes (like the ones you are already working on) will go so far in giving mesmers a ton of viable builds.

Thanks again.

tl/dr: mantra build shouldn’t really be a category of its own. Instead, focus on improving condition phantasms and condition shatters. otherwise, great work.

Clockwork Bard.3105:

Really, mesmer seems like the only profession that this would even appeal towards, since we’re just notoriously bad at dealing with conditions.

Just think of the amazing 30-minute condition Mesmer vs. condition Mesmer duels this heal now allows…

Well, seeing that the new heal removes (and heals off of) confusion and torment, it seems as if the heal is a great counter to the scepter, and by extension condition mesmers.

And seeing that it removes/heals off of torment, confusion, and poison (and many condi mesmers run sigils of doom), the heal seems like it might very much limit builds like blackwater and so forth, especially so because the cleanse is aoe. (Picture a 1v3 where one or two opponents has the heal, stripping our most potent conditions on top of regular cleanses.)

Anyway, not sure how many will end up using this heal, but it does seem like a particular counter to the current PU/condi builds.

I guess I’m thinking from a WvW perspective in which phantasms go down almost immediately. Thought it might be an ok idea given that it wouldn’t affect 1v1 dueling.

PvE is a completely different story.

I want to love the offhand sword. I really do. And dual swords looks cool as well. But offhand sword really only has use in 1v1 dueling, and even then pistol is pretty much superior in every way.

I believe the solution is simple. Make the iSwordsman’s attack cleave, up to three opponents. This would give it so much more utility while only penalizing opponents who blob together, and have no effect on 1v1 dueling.

Alternatively (in lieu of cleave), you could give iSwordsman some small condition (one stack of bleed, torment, etc.) so that the offhand could be viable for condition builds as well. But that is a separate issue.

Anyway, just an idea.

themenaceofseventhdimension.2075:

I know first hand the effectiveness of the combo Bunda mentioned, since I have been the first one to post and put together a build on that. However, that build Loses a lot of times against MH sword builds. It just doesn’t have the melee to face MH sword head to head. It will crumble if MH sword plays right and surprise attacks from stealth. That is why my revised build, which will come out tomorrow, is updated to better suit that problem. Check it out when it comes up. It is called, the Apex Predator.

I find main hand sword to be a bit lacking in the current PU meta. Granted it helps with control, but that’s what the greatword is for. With all of our invis and min 2 stunbreaks, mainhand sword is just so easy to kite around. And if I have retaliation up from the torch phantasm or block trait, i’m happy to eat the blurred frenzy.

That said, main hand sword is great in great players’ hands, and has a much higher skill cap than scepter. If you lose to a MH sword mesmer, chances are they are better than you anyway.

I’m starting to think that PU power builds are as/if not more effective then purely condition variants like blackwater. I’ve been playing around a lot with hybrid builds, and though I keep coming back to the 20/20/30/0/0, I’ve been having a lot of success with Greatsword (zerker), Scepter/Torch (rabid), knights armor (traveler runes), and a mix of rabid and zerker trinkets.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNAR7flwzKqXQTmGb9IipHBnvBckUoavWJF22FC-j0CBYLAINRmWAiEJwJQFRjtMsIasqaAaGYqUJV5KyeDKrSBAzYA-w

Even unbuffed you have over 3000 attack and ~750 condition damage (and this is mostly without ascended gear, too). However with dual sigils of battle, mirror blade, and bountiful interruption, you can basically start off a battle with 10+ might stacks, and then climb even higher.

I’ve also had good success against other PU mesmers with this build. Once I have two iZerkers up, they’re basically finished.

Anyway, I’m finding this a lot more fun than blackwater because of the speed (travelers) and ability to chase from GS. iZerker cripple is great, and blink + Illussionary Wave is one of my favorite combos altogether.

I’d be curious too to try it with Rampager or Zerker gear, but my runes of the traveler are stuck on a knights set, and I don’t really want to buy another set of them.