Showing Posts For Chriswck.6490:
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Most difficult to play to its fullest potential: (Only professions that I have played sufficiently thoroughly)
1, Necromaner
2, Elementalist
3, Mesmer
4, Guardian
GUYYYSSS!!
Guru is holding an open-table discussion in the coming day with J. Sharp and other prominent players in the tPvP scene:
November 30th at 8 PM. GMT+1 (11 AM. PST) on the own3d.tv/gw2guru channel
http://www.guildwars2guru.com/news/904-guru-state-of-the-game-stream-featuring-arenanet-developer-jonathan-sharp/
Hope this yields something substantial about GW2’s PvP.
Went through a similar phase. Got over it. Mind you, I still love the game to bits. Just seeing it differently, and treating it differently, not a game that would be my sole gaming entertainment.
Now, I log back in every now and then, keep myself updated. I still believe in their sPvP, but I’m taking a much longer view now.
Can’t miss the meditations guardian that goes for damage in sPvP:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQRAsf7elYgiDnGyKEfIFRuArHEEh+DXw1DI6wGC;TgAA2CnoqxUjoGbNuak1A
Whaaaat? What’s wrong with the hammer? What?
Yes, the only gripe I have with it is that people can dodge to get out of Ring of Warding. Other than that, the weapon is great.
Illusionists Celerity that gives 20% fasterrecharge toallillusion-summingskillswithonly5pointinvesmentinIllusionsTraitLineDUHHHHH?!?!
In that case, what about major trait?
Perhaps Illusionary Persona
Insubstantiated. That you would go so far as to discredit me due solely to the profession I play most, at best, reveals whether you are in here to truly discuss if ‘tracking/revealing’ should have be included in the arsenal of Rangers.
However, I’ll take your point, and rest my case; for the sake of rangers.
I do fancy having ranger traps revealing stealthed characters upon trigger. Requires good placement of traps, and does not completely nullify stealth. Seeing that the claim here is that stealth may seem a bit too powerful used offensively, traps will prepare for that. So that’s passive revealing.
Not sure whether active revealing would do any good though. To use stealth defensively, to escape, belongs to thieves, by right. Just as, in our case here, tracking and revealing are abilities of the rangers. Active revealing would nullify defensive stealthing.
In regards of tracking. I have no idea how that should play out.
The only thing that will work is to give them cool downs like everyone else.
Does revealed count as the cooldown? Albeit it’s quite short.
Recent post on official website by J Sharp mentioned that other game modes will be considered.
i.e. unlikely in the near future. possible perhaps at least half a year down the road?
Just bringing thread back to the top for people’s attention as the latest AMA with Whiteside yielded minimal answers to sPvP side of things.
A random thought for changing how the stealth mechanic works:
Think TF2 spy; cannot attack from stealth. First attack after unstealthing inherits the same effects as attacking from stealth currently.
I haven’t played a thief yet so I can’t really comment further: Would it work? How will it not work?
I agree that Rangers do not have a distinct role that they excel in at the moment.
Yet, previous roles of similar professions in other games does not predicate what the GW2 Rangers should be.
I am ignoring that the author is likely to be posting due to being trashed by a thief recently, and attempt to add a bit more to this thread:
I recall the GW1 Ranger to be one of my favorites. It had a clear role, though not always an essential one. Fun to play. Still, I have yet to see any Ranger-type profession with its combat mechanic designed well in incorporating the pet; not simply slapping pet damange into skills. Perhaps a good question to ask when designing a ranger-type profession is to ask: Can this skill have its pet abilities merged such that there is little to no change to combat dynamics? If Yes, then the skill is perhaps not well designed.
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Yeah this garbage mechanic makes any noob such a deadly duelist. Seems like this is the only build people run with in PvP it’s all illusion spamming and Mind Wracks. This needs to stop 3 illusion is 3 illusions no matter if it’s casted or not. Oh and I play Mesmer too.
Randomly claiming to play a profession you are whining about isn’t very credible. Additionally, your grasp of the mechanics doesn’t appear strong.
I suspect it’s intended. Once the mesmer hits shatter the clones are essentially projectiles that home in on the target to deliver the selected skill, the mesmer has no further control of them.
Preventing the mesmer using any phantasm skills until the projectiles hit home would be very unfair on them, no other class has to “wait” for a projectile attack to land before they can resume using their relevant skills again. Many classes can set up a projectile combo so multiple hits land simultaneously
Shattering illusions is not a projectile, thats like saying popping a bone minion is a projectile.
If the illusion is “in flight” it is still around, and should not be considered shattered yet. I certainly hope this was not intended.
The problem is that these projectiles are the slowest in the game. A player cannot outrun the ranged attack of another profession. A player CAN outrun an illusion that has been commanded to shatter. If illusions still counted until they actually shattered, rather than initiated the shatter process, the entire mesmer profession mechanic could be entirely disabled by the target player simply kiting the illusions around. In order to prevent this, illusions no longer count toward the limit if they have been commanded to shatter. It is still one of the most telegraphed attacks in the game. If you would like them to still count until they actually dissipate, the run speed of shatter activated illusions needs to be vastly increased – perhaps to standard projectile speed.
^That
If they still count, then the effects will have to be near-instant. Which, playing against a memser, we would not like.
^What Sprawl mentioned. It seems that the original idea of FPS style hotjoin with people coming in and out is not working. A system similar to those of moba’s would seem to work much better.
IMO, that 8v8 hotjoins are there further exacerbates the problem. People try hotjoin 5v5s with dismal experience (mostly because transitioning players are still employing the same mentality of an 8v8 game), and hence goes back to 8v8s. We can actually already see that 5v5 hotjoins are quickly declining.
Like what others have previously mentioned in various other threads, and further echoing an opinion of mine, the mere presence of 8v8 will do little good. 5v5s should be the sole standard format across the board. When that happens, custom arenas should also already be present to cater to other dueling and such needs.
1. THERE NEEDS (not want) NEEDS, to be a “Duel” option. Everyone likes to be able to have that option, whether or not you accept to duel someone is different. But it is nice to be able to just battle it out at any lvl in any zone, with a buddy, and fight.
Agreed. I think most will pull for it being implemented.
2. THERE NEEDS to be 1v1 pvp matches and tournaments, as well as 2v2.
These two should be standard in GW2 and I am not sure why they have not done it yet.There is no “need” at all for 1v1 and 2v2 matches. The game isn’t balanced around a 1v1 philosophy. Are you talking about Deathmatch? I wouldn’t mind them having an option to do something like that, but should only be just for fun. Keep the balancing concentrated on 5v5 sPvP.
That. Custom games should suffice as the solution to 1v1s and 2v2s. Having them in tournaments will merely create conflicts of skill balance across the board. As Art said, keep the balancing concentrated on 5v5s.
New modes would be great, but indeed, there are more pressing needs, of which Sharp has acknowledged and mentioned.
These were one of the most fun and challenging missions/dungeons in GW1.
I think we would generally agree that Fractals of the Mists is overall a fun and great mini-dungeon package, at least gameplay-wise. The process of figuring out smashing the seals, mini jumping puzzle portions, the hammer, the mystery of the chained man in Cliffside were most enjoyable, as well as facilitating player awareness and cooperation – as opposed to certain other dungeons that mostly involved pounding on extremely high healthed foes as we doze off. Even if Swamp was the most frustrating of all, but understanding the swamp area and finally getting the wisps felt great. Nevertheless, I cannot comment on Agony since I’m currently 1 scale short, but it reminded me of these 3 great areas in GW1.
There were a lot of great gameplay mechanics existing in GW1 that can be carried forward to GW2 with a few modification to suit the new combat system. The major staple of these GW1 areas were their environmental effects. For instance, Dragon’s Lair is basically a mission (or ‘dungeon’) with 8 sections (or fractals for that matter), and each had a unique environmental effect to it (and no gear you can obtain to nullify it – which is a good thing). The way to overcome these effects are to understand your skills as a profession, and communicate with your team, and set your skill bar accordingly. The Deep begins with splitting the 12 player team into 4 groups, and each had to complete their path to help each other get back together to continue.
Having said that, these areas suffered from a few drawbacks that impeded its potential and popularity that would be great if improved upon for a remake. I didn’t do a lot of the first two, so my list will probably miss certain problems with them:
1, Party of 12 was hard to find and coordinate. I believe the current party of 5 is easier to team up and coordinate, without taking away what’s great with the brought over gameplay mechanics.
2, The Deep and Warren were not very accessible and transparent. Few know about it, let alone knowing how to get into the area. Currently, dungeons are visible in the world map, and are relatively easy to access. Of course, Factions as an expansion in itself also contributes to the problem.
3, Due to the uniqueness and difficulty of these dungeons, the steep learning curve might have deterred initially interested players from coming back. Currently, FotM has a difficulty scale. Employing this scale, in a manner appropriate to a new remake would help in players to learn.
4, I cannot remember whether the Deep and Warren’s rewards were justifiable, but I think this is a totally addressable problem.
What are your thoughts of these areas? What are the great things that Anet can potentially bring back? What contributed to the downfall of the Deep and Warren? How can we overcome and avoid them?
Discuss.
Yes, it has been happening quite often when respawning
How can you not retrait if you want to go for anything that is an effective condition build?
It’s only 3.5 silver – which is only 3-4 high level merchant junk?
Arcane 30 is given. 20-30 Earth and others try around
Edit: Arcane 30 given Evasive Arcana will come back with blast finishers
(edited by Chriswck.6490)
PotatoOverdose.6583:
So basically, it is a small part of the functionality that GvG had in GW1 except we have to pay for it?
Might I suggest such a suspicion of what’s behind the scenes that does not contribute much, if anything, to this thread:
1, PvP department genuinely hears and cares about the community but are short on resources and thus are not able to meet essential demands of the players
2, PvP department requests more resources from management
3, Management replies, saying that they need to see revenue figures before they can spend more resources on the PvP department
4, PvP decides hastily to include paid tournaments
5, Due to the lack of the basic, core essentials and structures, tournaments flounder
6, Management unable to distribute more resources
7, PvP spirals into the gy
Before point 7 comes true, QUICKLY THERE’S NO TIME, QUICKLY:
- Someone buyout their management; or
- Restructure funding scheme, so that fund amount is not per division but per GW as a whole. Resources further distributed internally by Anet
Perhaps most of us are suffering from the post-honeymoon effect, that our susceptible brains just can’t help comparing what GW2 was like when it first came out, period of which good impressions were naturally overblown.
Still, the great landscape and town designs and attention to details, numerous live updates and patches post-release, and among the many other things that genuinely shows that Anet cares every bit about the game never ceases to impress me.
If there is any takeaway, every second and every penny spent on this game was well worth more than what I gave.
So, Anet, come on! Just one last, or two, stretch!
It would be nice if skill descriptions are added when cursor is over a certain skill.
An indirect and great way to learn another profession. Greater understanding, better foundation for improving skills
Seems like the PvE division is getting way more say in pull of resources. C. Johanson mentioned a while back that they have a massive live team dedicated to new content. Perhaps the original philosophy has changed, and management is now assigning much more assets to PvE. Which is fine. But with PvP struggling due to lack of resources, it could potentially mar the brand.
A far-fetched thought:
Actually, given the potential I have seen with GW2 and its capability of being a standalone IP:
I would not mind if Anet takes the sPvP down, make amendments, add core infrastructures, polish it and sell it back out as a separate and distinct competitive title, supported by a separate and independent team of people. Basically, spin-off the PvP division
1, Conflicts of game mechanics between PvP and PvE will be removed.
2, Audiences of the game will be dedicated PvP players.
3, Players will come to the game with a different/correct set of expectations not that of MMOs – as I am vaguely beginning to picture the perpetually incongruous demands between PvE and PvP players.
4, Basic assets are all there from game engine to concept art and model designs. Further cross-utilization is also viable.
5, Opens up the ability to create a proper lobby platform like those of, say, MOBAs
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What I am afraid of is that if dueling was implemented, queue times would increase dramatically because people would just be dueling their friends rather than playing the tournies.
Totally concur with the premise. Would like to add another argument for it.
If dueling is added – even worse, added to tourneys – I foresee major dissonance in the community regarding skill balance. Let’s face it, certain classes are inherently better in 1v1s, other classes are better in team fights. And that’s the way it is and has to be. Having players proposing skill balance changes on the basis of 1v1s would decimate the proper 5v5 tourneys if such skill changes were made.
In short, stick with 5v5s first and foremost, and solve the imminent concerns. Certain things have to give, and as of right now, dueling has to be put on extremely frozen ice. Let dueling simply be there through (to-be) custom servers. Adding dueling formally is a net cost to the 5v5s, and consequently proper tourney plays – because we’re still going for the e-sport direction, right?
Wait up a second guys. I tihnk we are letting the argumentative side get the best of us:
Instead of clamoring for OMG REMOVE 8V8 for 5v5, why don’t we just have some 8v8, some 5v5 servers? That way people have their options.
No not 5v5 custom servers that you have to pay for, but 5v5 hotjoin along with 8v8. Everybody’s happy.
I fear that the presence of 8v8 hotjoins will perpetuate and reinforce the wrong kind of understanding – the kind of team dynamics and map understanding that comes with 5v5 matches.
Anet claimed that it would like to take the sPvP of this game into e-sport level, and tPvP is the only format capable of reaching that level. With 8v8 hotjoins around, the transition for players to tPvP will be difficult. Currently, in 8v8s we see, in comparison to 5v5s, only a small amount of team dynamics, coordination and map utilization. And we have probably already seen relatively less experienced PvPers joining 5v5s for the first couple of times and playing it like a hotjoin.
If left the way it is, I foresee a segmentation in the community with people only playing 8v8s or 5v5s. Returning to the notion of Anet’s aspiration of e-sport, this works against it. For tourneys to work well, we need a bigger playerbase. If community is segmented, there’s too little new blood to support tourneys.
We can still have 8v8s, yes, but preferably only in custom modes. At least by default, players will join a game that is setup as 5v5 so that they can begin to understand and learn the sPvP that Anet has been trying to portray. Although, arguably, people will likely still play the way we see in 8v8s. However, that leads to a whole other line of argument regarding rank points, glory points and the point system.
The whole sPvP structure has to be more streamlined. Think mobas – there’s only 1 mode and one mode only – we can still ahve and need other maps, but 5v5s have to be there across the board as the standard
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Seconded.
If I may add to your mandatory ladder system, about which has most probably been mentioned before:
The current system of ranks being determined by rank points, which in turn is attributed to the points players get in a match poses a perversion problem. Compounding that is glory points for better gear. In result, we have glory farmers and players with inflated ranks that do not correctly reflect their skill levels. This creates a detrimental environment for competitive play on various levels.
And are 8v8s going to be removed, or switched to 5v5s yet? How can they not see this as breeding the incorrect understanding of the sPvP that they are aspiring to create?
(edited by Chriswck.6490)
In addition to your valid points, may I add:
HOTJOIN 8v8s
Further discussion in another aptly named thread in this specific subforum.
Reposting what I posted in that thread:
…i believe that if you make hot joins 5v5 you will see a decrease in zergs, a more suitable place to test builds, a more casual friendly environment and a way for entry level players to get there feet wet and see what structured PvP is all about…
there will come a point where Spvp tournaments paid or free will become smaller and smaller as teams move on to other games over time, or simply get bored facing the same teams over and over. This will increase queue times longer and longer until they will just stop. the solution to this is to teach or provide a place where New players can learn.
hot join matches are the suggested place for this to occur but hot join matches are not even close to what tournament level of play is like. even IF a new player learns his class and many others, the zerg beats skill everytime. it becomes frustrating and ruins his experience. this essentially stops players from wanting to get better or maybe avoid PVP altogether. creating a smaller player base willing to go the extra mile and start his progression to tougher challenges.
…
Arena Net should change 8v8 to 5v5 to allow easier access for new players to learn, experiment and develop into stronger players. increasing the accessability of PVP and encouraging growth within the PVP community.
Seconded.
If Anet would like a place for new players to learn their classes and try out their builds, custom servers are the spots for it. We now know that these are on their way, at last.
As mentioned in previous posts, what is seen in most 8v8 hotjoins are zergs and players mostly playing as solo characters, with a tiny amount of team dynamics and coordination. These hotjoins simply reinforces the wrong style of play, especially if it is the intended purpose of bringing the player base, eventually, toward tournament play. It’s not that these players can simply join free tourney games; the fact that 8v8 hotjoins are there breeds a wrong understanding of the real sPVP GW intends to portray. As the overall hotjoin player base gets more accustomed to 8v8s, shifting them to 5v5s will create other unnecessary thorns. If left as the way it is, you will have two distinct sPVP player bases with distinct playstyles, and could eventually lead to balancing dilemmas. Yet that is still not the greatest concern. As the current high level player base move further up the “skill ladder”, who are going to fill their place? Where are the new blood going to come from?.
We’ve got to give new players a chance to learn the proper dynamics of a map and its relation to the team – and not perpetuate a false understanding of GW’s intended sPVP.
Remove 8v8s and move them all to 5v5s.
Also, make hotjoins more “serious” (after the switch to 5v5s). Leavers have to be penalized more; not just withholding them from joining any matches for a mere10 minutes like in GW1. No team switches. In essence, think mobas.
If gameplay is intrinsically good, I don’t see how that acts as a barrier for new players. And by then we would have custom servers, right?
(edited by Chriswck.6490)
…i believe that if you make hot joins 5v5 you will see a decrease in zergs, a more suitable place to test builds, a more casual friendly environment and a way for entry level players to get there feet wet and see what structured PvP is all about…
there will come a point where Spvp tournaments paid or free will become smaller and smaller as teams move on to other games over time, or simply get bored facing the same teams over and over. This will increase queue times longer and longer until they will just stop. the solution to this is to teach or provide a place where New players can learn.
hot join matches are the suggested place for this to occur but hot join matches are not even close to what tournament level of play is like. even IF a new player learns his class and many others, the zerg beats skill everytime. it becomes frustrating and ruins his experience. this essentially stops players from wanting to get better or maybe avoid PVP altogether. creating a smaller player base willing to go the extra mile and start his progression to tougher challenges.
…
Arena Net should change 8v8 to 5v5 to allow easier access for new players to learn, experiment and develop into stronger players. increasing the accessability of PVP and encouraging growth within the PVP community.
Seconded.
If Anet would like a place for new players to learn their classes and try out their builds, custom servers are the spots for it. We now know that these are on their way, at last.
As mentioned in previous posts, what is seen in most 8v8 hotjoins are zergs and players mostly playing as solo characters, with a tiny amount of team dynamics and coordination. These hotjoins simply reinforces the wrong style of play, especially if it is the intended purpose of bringing the player base, eventually, toward tournament play. It’s not that these players can simply join free tourney games; the fact that 8v8 hotjoins are there breeds a wrong understanding of the real sPVP GW intends to portray. As the overall hotjoin player base gets more accustomed to 8v8s, shifting them to 5v5s will create other unnecessary thorns and community dissonance. If left as the way it is, you will have two distinct sPVP player bases with distinct playstyles, and could eventually lead to balancing dilemmas. Yet that is still not the greatest concern. As the current high level player base move further up the “skill ladder”, who are going to fill their place? Where are the new blood going to come from?
We’ve got to give new players a chance to learn the proper dynamics of a map and its relation to the team – and not perpetuate a false understanding of GW’s intended sPVP.
Remove 8v8s and move them all to 5v5s.
As an aside:
1) The way that gaining ranks through rank points; and
2) That glory points for acquiring better looking gear
are both tied to the points gained in a match, is perverting hotjoin games – involving people simply farming for glory. Arguably, the means to gain points are aligned with objectives and purposes of a map, but then you keep seeing more than a necessary amount of people capping points. Perhaps, we have come full circle, that these maps we currently have are not designed for 16 people.
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Solving the symptoms.
Let’s look at PvP favoring either burst classes or bunkers.
Burst classes exist because you need to take out people quickly to control a point. You jump in, drop someone, then exit and fight on the outskirts. You also need them to drop bunkers quickly to take the point.
Bunkers exist because you need someone on the point who can’t die quickly, but can knockback. A bunker doesn’t need damage. Just survivability.
All of this stems from the current design of Conquest Mode. One person on a point and no one can cap it. Doesn’t matter if your team has more players there, as long as one person is on the point, you can’t cap.
Change that to a team cap system and guess what.
Burst classes will die down because you need players on the point and while you have the potential to drop someone, getting off the point hinders your teams ability to cap. You need to be able to take and dish damage, not just dish.
Bunker classes will die down because there’s no point in dying slowly 1v2 when they’re capping the point from you. You need to be able to absorb and dish damage, not just absorb.The current game design is the problem. Not bunkers. Not burst. Not protection. Not haste. Until you’re required to go a more balanced spec, it will be either one or the other.
I see much truth in this.
Burst and bunker builds are products of the current game design of conquest maps. Fixes to protection and haste is likely misplaced attention.
At the very least, the effectiveness of bunkers and burst will be toned down with regard to point capping. In turn, this will hopefully direct player’s attention to other possible builds/professions.
Nevertheless, Anet has to focus on fixing and improving the big picture side of things first. Ladders, a great match-making system, map diversities, etc. Anet said it would like to take time to see how the community fleshes out in terms of skills and their balancing, and that a valid point. But how do you expect that to happen when the proper systems aren’t even in place, that the player base is declining drastically with much fewer people experimenting.
And I cannot stress this more, why are 8v8 hotjoins still there?
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<a href=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rnpqzt44Pag&feature=g-u-u”>Tales of Tyria #55</a>
WvW has been undeniably losing its attraction as time goes on. Fixes are coming in at snail’s pace. Anet has to realize that there IS a point where it will be too late. We’re all here because we love this game and saw the potential with it.
Tales of Tyria by far generates the most meaningful and interesting discussions, compared with other open-table shows. WvW was talked about.
One of the major proposals discussed here is: Remove Orange Swords on the Map. Contemplate.
If that got your attention, watch the rest of the show.
Anet watches the show, and they have to take their time quickly, and seriously deliberate over the core structure and come up with creative solutions to WvW.
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