Guild Wars 2

FooDang.2498:

here’s a scenario:

You stealth…How can I focus something I can’t see? I can’t, so I only have 2 other options, focus their buddy or run

Option 1- Focus their buddy…I got a knife stuck in my back

Option 2- I run…oh man that thief is fast because I got a knife stuck in my back

See, this is your problem. We thieves try to tell you that there is an option 3, but you guys just refuse to accept it. So here is option 3: play a thief, level it up, and learn how stealth works and the basic patterns used to enter stealth and what you do once in stealth. After that, you will realize that all your problems fighting thieves were a joke. Want proof? Here

Deniara Devious.3948:

randomfightfan.4091:

@ den

So you’re saying engi gap closers aren’t good enough b/c your imaginary conditions (that you just thought up) don’t apply to the multiple gap closers an engi has. I guess by your logic an rtl doesn’t count as gap closer b/c it was recently nerfed and 2hs can go further or warrior whirlwind goes the same distance but evades while doing so. You can’t complain that there’s no gap closers b/c other gap closers are better in certain situations. A gap closer is a gap closer and engi has lots of them.

Not every gap closer is equal. E.g. that acid bomb is 400 range leap backwards. Compare it with rush (warrior greatsword #5), which is 1200 range. That is 3x difference, which is much bigger difference than the 900 vs 1200 difference people are now raging here.

If the gap closers you claimed you would work, then tell me. Let me play my level 80 elementalist, level 80 thief or level 80 warrior. I am now fleeing from your level 80 engineer using my skills to the max. How are you gonna close the cap using the “gap closers” you mentioned. Or let’s reverse situation. Your level 80 engineer wants to run away from my elementalist, thief or warrior. It won’t work. But that rocket boots, which is a 900 range gap closer, at least sometimes gives some opportunities to get away or catch up a fleeing enemy. Thief still has multiple ways to move 900 range. There is no question that thief is better in this respect and this is exactly how Arenanet wanted it to be.

I wrote in this thread that thief’s short bow got actually 2 buffs because the following two conditions work now differently: weakness and blind. And then people just write that many thieves never use them.

I personally feel cheap when I play a thief in WvWvW. Honestly it feels a bit overpowered, because the high mobility and constant stealth makes it very easy to escape almost any situation and also surprise unwary opponents as it is not a human nature to be alert 100% of time. I would argue that thief is the best roaming profession in WvWvW and still useful in zergs as well even when there is that huge lag. If you play on Desolation server, I can come with my thief right in the middle of the zerg fight.

You’re the only thief I have ever met that claims a thief is useful in a zerg. If I want to run with the zerg I have to completely change my skills around and significantly decrease my dps just so that I can survive in the fray. We have someone on ET that transferred to Fort Aspenwood for a short time to see what WvW was like there. He said in their coordinated guild zergs they don’t even ALLOW thieves. When asked what a thief brought to the table in a zerg fight they said “umm… cluster bomb.” Now Anet nerfs this? We are simply wanting the logic behind this. It makes no sense and forces us into the solo roaming ganking playstyle everyone hates.

solarisnox.8521:

Zeke Azul Falcon.5176:

solarisnox.8521:

I actually want to thank you guys, Craig and Jakare…I still feel that stealth is an insanely overpowered ability…and that larcenous strike is even more insanely overpowered…BUT…I am taking your posts to heart, and will start leveling my thief, and keeping these points in mind the next time I fight one in wvw…assuming I catch one alone…they seem to run in packs now, and then again there is always the Thieves Guild elite ability…actually, how would you suggest one counter that?
I’ve beaten a few thieves in wvw, (less than 1% of the total I’ve fought against), and if they don’t have thieves guild I can sometimes win, assuming they don’t kill me outright with basilisk venom…but if they do have thieves guild, it’s pretty much game over.

so, while I greatly appreciate your posts on how to counter thieves, how would you suggest countering these two aspects? basilisk venom and theives guild?

what build are you running? a good thief tries to observe what the enemy is, from thief build and movement and adjust what skill to use, it will all boil down to timing, i use basilisk most of the time.

it doesn’t seem to matter…if I get hit with basilisk venom I’m immobilized for 3 seconds, and since they usually apply it from stealth and from behind, I pretty much have no choice in the matter.
There seems to be no counter to basilisk and thieves guild. One thief is bad enough, 3 or 4 is…well..y’know.

First, basi venom is 2 seconds, not 3. Second, what class is your main, and what type of build do you run? For basi venom I would suggest running runes of melandru. They’re fairly expensive (about 15g for a full set) but they turn the 2 second stun into a 1.75 second stun, and there is a cheap food that decreases stun duration by 36%, turning the stun into a .8 second stun. However, if the runes are too expensive, or don’t go with your build, you can always just use a stunbreak if you have fast enough reflexes. Basically the idea is to make the thief waste his initiative trying to finish you, leaving him vulnerable. Thieves guild is a very strong elite, but you can pretty easily kite them and mitigate most of their damage, just don’t focus on them and forget about the real thief (which is kind of the point of the skill). Just anticipate and pay attention to everything around you. It’s like killing a dolyak with guards: kill the dolyak and the guards despawn. So do your best to kite the thieves and pay attention so that you don’t get hit by the thief and it shouldn’t result in an insta-win. Don’t get me wrong, it will still be tough, but that’s the point of an elite. Oh, and as soon as you see the thieves guild pop, dodge, because one thief will use a pull, and a good thief will use that to his advantage for positioning. Positioning is key for a thief, so mess that up and you have the advantage. If you have any questions, or want some practice, feel free to message me in-game (if you’re on NA) and I’ll help you out. I’ve helped train multiple people in my guild to fight thieves, so I would definitely be up to helping you too. And this goes to anyone out there too. If you’re on NA and would like some training, message me and we can set up a time.

Very good and detailed. I would also like to add the blind bug fix (auto attack without hitting anything no longer clears blind) that was a HUGE buff to D/P and the blind on stealth trait that many D/D thieves use. It is also a slight buff to the S/P but not enough to bring it back to prevalence imo.

Epic.3950:

Noshiz.8650:

Epic.3950:

Noshiz.8650:

yes and get r*ped by all ranged players with 1200+ range while trying to get at 900.

Honey look on the bright side, they got nerfed and they were gonna tear your kitten either way.

If you are so sure that they would tear me apart, why are you all day long at thief forums QQing about how OP thieves are ?

Who is the noob now? Learn to play.

clap clap clap. you are so smart. you obviously have no real argument because one minute you are talking about the fact you are so bad you cant even survive a ranger pet, now you are commenting on how everyone knows thieves are OP get a grip. 300 range isnt going to affect you in 99% of situations. and if you wanna go there we can complain about how the warrior cant go axe and rifle because their only 1200 range weapons are completely immobile. Suck it up id take a lot of things with decreased range to get what you can do.

Stop telling people they are saying something they aren’t. He never said EVERYONE knows thieves are op, he said YOU think thieves are op, but that thieves will be beat every time by a different class, which means thieves are not op, so you’re contradicting yourself. Also, at least you have the OPTION to use a 1200 range weapon. Thieves now don’t even have the OPTION to use one, because we don’t have one. And there are plenty of specs for a rifle warrior. A thief has no powerful ranged weapon anyways and now they just took away our ONE option for tower defense, which we claim is completely uncalled for and pidgeonholds us into using melee all the time, which we don’t want.

bobross.5034:

whelp the original post here is a bit out of date since the latest nerf. So again, QQers rest easy…the thief is finally squashed….

My favorite complaint about thieves is how they always get away…and it’s not fair, they should just die when they’re supposed to. Nevermind that base health is 10k, and the armor is paper. Never mind that 2 hits from your tanky build brought that thief down to 20%, it should’ve stuck around for that third hit, and since it didn’t it’s OP.

As Craig pointed out, other classes can be quite survivable as well, even when specc’d glass. The difference is that if you go against a guardian and can’t bring him down to 80%, after a while, you give up and decide wow, that was a good match. If you go against a decent thief, you may land a few blows on them, but if you bring them down to 20% and get away, you say…aww, I should’ve won that one and the OP’d thief got away!

So the issue here is really psychology. In one case you hit the guy 20 times and barely do a dent, so he must be a good player. In the second case you hit the guy 5 times, nearly kill him and then he gets away, so that’s unfair.

The whole reason thieves have such low health is because we have so many survival skills, it’s the reason you can be outplayed by thief, and still feel like you should’ve won. Just remember, if the thief isn’t downed, or running away from you, you haven’t won.

Very well said. I also want to point out that typically a thief has an in-depth knowledge of every class in the game, because he has to know what to expect in order to survive. Countless times I have people explaining a trait to me and I have to explain to them that I already know what it does, even though my only 80’s are thief, mesmer, and ranger. I read the patch notes for every professions’ changes so I know how builds will change, and talk to members of my guild to see how the change affected their build and their rotations (if at all). If a thief is not doing all of these things he is at a disadvantage when fighting you. However, if you enter a fight without knowledge of the thief class, you will be at a severe disadvantage. I could list of pages and pages of tips, but I don’t feel like telling everyone every way to beat the class I like to play the most. So when a thief tells you to L2P, he means that you need to do the same research into the thief that the thief did to the other professions. And click the link in my sig if you want the thieves’ definition of L2P.

Edeor.9720:

Craig.2403:

Also, a ’zerker warrior has WAY more survivability than a ’zerker thief, and a ’zerker mesmer has plenty of ways to survive as well (multiple invulnerabilites, clones to tank for them, and lots of cc).

So, basically you’re telling people thief is not op ‘cause is just a lp2 issue, but you don’t know how to kite a zerker warr or kill a zerger mesmer due to clones (LOL and you have even a mesmer ahahahahahahha)… ah ok.

Just a suggestion, instead of open 3ds on the forum, make an account on Daoc and play a true stealther class, maybe you can learn something about the stealther class ;-)

When did I say I had trouble fighting these classes? I simply stated that they have forms of survivability too, just like a thief. You say you know how to kite warrior, or kill a mesmer, but isn’t that an L2P issue too? And why would you compare one game to another. The thief in GW2 has it’s own role and play style, so you should have to adapt to the devs’ version of a thief, not your own. When I have trouble fighting a class, instead of going to the forums and QQ’ing, I play the class so that I can learn how people playing the class thinks, the cool downs, and the basic rotations that work. Then, when fighting it, I have the advantage of knowing what the other person is most likely to do so that I can mitigate his damage. So why don’t you try the same thing: instead of QQ’ing about thieves being hard to kill, go level one and learn it’s strategies so that when you fight one you can be better prepared. Only once you’ve done that do you have the right to come and ask for some real ADVICE, as opposed to simply saying “thief is op because I can’t kill one.”

I have a thief and I have hit someone mid-leap, so maybe this is something Anet needs to look at

THEmeltor.7295:

I think every class wants to feel like they are underpowered, or very easy to kill. Just go into any forum and look at all the QQ.

In my experience, purely 1v1 vs. a decent Thief is a very difficult fight with my Warrior. I’m not complaining that thieves are OP but it’s a rare occasion when I beat a thief single-handedly. Maybe it’s just a bad match of classes? Or I’m just bad? IDK. I seem to handle myself pretty well against most other classes. Mesmers are difficult because of all the clones and whatnot. But otherwise I do pretty well.

Just be aware that while it seems SOOOOO easy there’s a reason that thieves get complained about alot. I mean, you can go with the idea that the majority of players in GW2 are bad, or you can follow logic and understand that it’s simply difficult to keep up with an enemy that has alot of evades/teleports/stealths/blinds. It’s just hard. It’s the same reason Mesmers are complained about. 1v1, these classes are kings of dueling, as they have the ability to reset fights to their liking (stealth), lots of active defense (dodging, evades, clones, blinds), and because of those abilities they are able to go glassy and still be able to stay in a fight.

Again….not claiming they’re OP. Just that they’re really good dueling classes and they are not such a free kill as you’re claiming them to be TC.

I have commented this on another “thief is not op topic” but I will say it again here. Thief is usually considered op because it has such a high skill ceiling. A really good thief has the potential to be really good, which draws a lot of people to the class (including me). Because (like you said) a thief’s defense is active, not passive, a thief can go glass cannon. Not because, like a warrior, he can just take enough damage even with ‘zerker gear, but because he can OUTPLAY his opponent. If a thief beats you 1v1 it is nothing to be ashamed of, it’s what they’re designed to do. If a thief beats you 1v4 it’s your own fault and L2P. If you beat a thief 1v1 gratz and tell others your sectets. I happen to be someone who has beat a thief 1v1 all the time (even on my other classes) and has shared my secrets. Whether people take them and use them is up to them, but I can’t control whether people will take and use my tips. All I can do is try to convince people that thieves are not op and give legitimate reasons why.

changed my sig too

sorrow.2364:

I don’t think so.
Pretty much, when a Thief says L2P, it means:

I have no real argument against yours.
I just want to enjoy my profession and I don’t really give a kitten about balance and everything. I just want to faceroll people and I don’t want to waste time to get better, while you should if you want to have any chance against me while I’m mashing buttons randomly with no real clue on what I’m doing.

That is pretty much what I read when I see L2P in the thief forum.

Seriously guys, you should stop doing this bullkitten.
I’ve seen L2P said to really well formed and logically correct arguments regarding thieves, which is really sad, to be honest.

I’ve seen L2P said to people who kindly asked for suggestion on how to counter thieves.

Everything who were said to be broken about thieves was then nerfed, which it means that, probably, most people complains have some sense.
Probably also other people have a brain, not only you.

Would you like to hear how many times I have died to a solo thief on my ranger? It might surprise you. The answer is 0. Why? Because they are so darn predictable once you play one

Can we make this into a bulletin board as soon as you enter the thief forums? Then, all we ever have to do is reply with “L2P” making life so much easier.

Epic.3950:

lol ranger thief and mesmer. bandwagon OP class much? what next delete ranger go get guard and complain he doesnt have enough sustain or DPS?

No, not a bandwagon. Been playing thief since launch, and I play the assassin type class in every game. I play mesmer because a friend convinced me to play it because it is so similar to the thief but with more team support. I play ranger because I wanted a frontline class that could tank to be a commander, and I was stuck between guard and ranger and chose ranger because it was less played. So no, the only bandwagon op class I created was a warrior because I’m too much of a PvE noob to do CoF well on mesmer, and I can barely bring myself to level it. Also note I’m a commander on the least bandwagon server ever: the lowest rank server in NA.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Why-thief-is-NOT-op/first#post2280144

I pretty much outlined every way to counter a thief just to prove that thieves were not OP with this post, only to find that… wait for it… NERF HAMMER! /Sigh. Anyways, hopefully this will at least help you deal with us better, and someone can be happy.

I am constantly surprised by the fact that people think this shortbow “nerf” destroyed the class. I have played ranger for about 3 months now, and have created a very good melee build, without using the shortbow or longbow at all. The only class I have trouble fighting 1v1 is none of them and the only classes together I have trouble fighting 1v2 is none at all. Only against coordinated groups of 2 or more, or uncoordinated groups of 4 or more do I have trouble, and all that is WITHOUT A SHORTBOW! So stop griping about 1 weapon being hit a little bit and actually experiment with weapons that aren’t “auto-attack to win” and require a little bit more skill. The ranger does have a high skill cap, you just have to find builds that let you raise it.

So anyone else absolutely hate the fact that a channel attack follows you even after you stealth? For instance: a ranger uses longbow 2 (rapid fire) and you stealth. He then can know exactly where you move until the cannel ends, as well as dealing damage. Imo, the attack should keep firing right where you stealthed as soon as you stealth. Anyone else think this needs to change?

Swim.6830:

Just to shoot down point 1 from OP, using any of the below, will restealth you without the reveal debuff. I have seen thieves bring down someone to 30% HP with multiple attacks and just popping out from stealth 3 times for 1/10th of a second each.

Combos that grant stealth
Combo Field: Smoke × Combo Finisher: Blast
Combo Field: Smoke × Combo Finisher: Leap

Overall thieves are fine as is, no buff but definitely no nerfs needed I think. Just more diversity.

I already explained the answer to this issue. Simply stand in the smoke field and when the attack to restealth they hit you and get revealed. The only leap finisher on these builds is heartseeker, which will hit you no matter where you are in the line of the animation, so standing in the middle of the black powder will GUARANTEE that he hits you, giving him the revealed debuff. He also has no blast finisher while in D/P so in a fight this is worthless. It’s only important if they’re inside a tower, but the same concept applies. Just stand in the field and the thief spamming cluster bomb will get revealed.

Metamega.9025:

I want to clarify that I do not think that the thief sucks in PvP or PVE, I really enjoy my thief in pve especially, its a game, I have fun. I just meant to say it is very far from over powered. Its right in the middle ground. Not the best, not the worst, and some do way better with it based off profession knowledge and knowledge of the dungeon.

I think the problem with the thief is that it is all of those things. The ability of a thief to survive is directly related to how good the person playing the thief is. Because all of a thief’s defense is “active” (meaning, you have to trigger your defense, either by dodge, blind, etc.) as opposed to “passive” (meaning toughness and vitality, that are there whether you trigger something or not), a thief’s ability to survive is in his ability to anticipate and outsmart his opponent. Because of this, a really good thief has the potential to be really good (high skill ceiling) and a bad thief will be really bad (low skill floor). When people complain about thief being op, what they really should be saying is that thief has too high of a skill ceiling (which I don’t agree with, it’s just that this is the problem that people have with the thief, and allows for better arguments than “thief is op because I got killed”).

Still waiting for the day Anet decides that WvW should be more about skill than numbers. However, since that day is probably long in coming, we simply learn how to fight outnumbered. Also, where is PAXA? Haven’t seen you guys at all this matchup. We’ve improved a lot (though still probably not enough to beat you guys) and are now pulling off easy victories while outnumbered. Can’t wait to see how we fare against you guys at the end of this matchup.

Incurafy.6329:

Craig.2403:

Alex.6940:

Do damage numbers appear in your combat log if you hit someone in stealth?

No, but if it is a chain attack, you will notice the chain progress. Also, if the skill has a visual effect that takes place on the target (most noticeable is ranger’s entangle, which leaves binding roots on the target) it will appear where the thief is, letting you know where the thief was when that skill hit the thief.

99.9999% sure that they do show up in the combat log.

Then you’re probably right. I never have the combat log open because it takes up too much of the chat panel. Being on a server where the commanders use team chat as opposed to teamspeak (though there is a server teamspeak, it’s just there’s never people on it) I tend to miss instructions if I have the combat log open.

So easy to beat a D/X thief as engi: run while throwing grenades backwards behind you. If they chase you they will die and if they run, well, they’re still not a problem.

Alex.6940:

Do damage numbers appear in your combat log if you hit someone in stealth?

No, but if it is a chain attack, you will notice the chain progress. Also, if the skill has a visual effect that takes place on the target (most noticeable is ranger’s entangle, which leaves binding roots on the target) it will appear where the thief is, letting you know where the thief was when that skill hit the thief.

Dagraan.2854:

you make it sound so easy even though its not, especially since heartseeker is a leap skill that goes from 1 side of the blind field to the other, and leap skills won’t hit something midway through it.

not to mention even if you do manage to get in the way he has utilities and can easily get out of your range to run to his next field.

and not to mention the zerker theif still has access to a 900 range teleport at the touch of a F1 button.
dodge rolling at the end of 3 seconds won’t always work, especially with a short CD of 45 secs. even more so if he’s traited to gain stealth when he steals.

the only way to kill a perma stealth theif in 3 secs is to have a zerker build yourself and even then he can easily turn around and gank your kitten . then go right back into perma stealth.

#1: actually, heart seeker DOES hit you even if it’s half way through the leap.
#2. This is why I always suggest playing a thief. I started off as a thief and played a P/D caltrops condi build, and had sooo much trouble fighting backstab builds, no matter what I played. I switched to backstab just to try it out. After playing backstab build for about 2 weeks, watching Yishis’ videos, and practicing timing, etc. I got to be really good. Better than the average thief at least. At this point I started playing my ranger again (as I just got commander) and while soloing I suddenly noticed I knew EXACTLY where the thief was while he was in stealth. Why? Because I new what he had to do as soon as he got into stealth, I knew his mechanics, his teleports I had paid attention to his signets beforehand (infiltrator’s signet gives a second teleport) and I knew exactly how and when he would try to hit me. Ever since, I have not died to a thief on my Ranger… AT ALL!!! Try leveling a thief, and learning its mechanics. Then, when fighting a thief, instead of thinking “Spam 1!! Is my chain progressing?” think "If I were this thief, where would I be and where would I be heading. Aim there, and if you hit, you have him right where you want him. If not, dodge. In his 3 seconds of revealed, take time to think "why was he not where I expected. Look at boons to see if anything changed (used infiltrator’s signet for teleport) that let’s you know how the situation has changed. Once he restealths, think, with your newly gathered information, “If I were this thief, where would I be and where would I be heading.” Again, go to where you expect him to be and start swinging. This process will continue until one of you dies. This will make the fight more interesting and fun. It also keeps you on even terms, as the thief, when he stealths, will use that time to evaluate what he has in his advantage and how he can trick you and get his backstab off. Use the thief’s thinking time as your own thinking time and you will no longer be at a disadvantage.

Master of Timespace.2548:

Base damage on a backstab with a full ‘zerker thief is approximately 1200 IF AND ONLY IF YOU GET HIT IN THE BACK.

It deals full damage from side also.

Yes, this is true, the point I was trying to make though was that backstab does have many preconditions to deal full damage. Thanks for pointing this out though

To start out, I will point out why people think that thief is op. I have heard about 3 reasons: 1. “perma-stealth” D/P builds, 2. Insane burst with D/X Backstab builds, and 3. “perma-evade” S/D builds

So let me shoot down every one of these reasons that the thief is op.
1. “perma-stealth” D/P builds.
First, you can’t perma-stealth and do damage, because of this wonderful debuff called “revealed” which prevents stealth for 3 seconds. You might think “so what, it’s only 3 seconds!” but I have news for you: three seconds is easily enough to take out 50-100% of a thief’s health, depending on how much damage you do. And, contrary to popular belief, stealth != invulnerability. You can still hit a thief while he is in stealth, and if you’re smart, you will hit them, and possibly even down them. Next, a perma-stealth D/P build is very initiative heavy, and this can be used against them. Third, and the most underused, but easiest counter: when you see that ring of black smoke, go stand in it. 99.9999% of the time the thief will heartseeker through it MULTIPLE TIMES to get maximum amounts of stealth, and if you’re standing in it when he does it he will get revealed and waste about 10 initiative, leaving him extremely vulnerable and most likely dead.

2. Insane burst with D/X builds
Really, there’s not much to this one. I already explained how to counter D/P builds, so here I will explain the counter to D/D builds. To get stealth, a D/D thief will either have to Cloak and Dagger (which has 130 range) or pop either a heal or utility with a 30s+ CD. Most of the time the thief will attempt a backstab about 3-4 seconds into the stealth, so a simple dodge after approximately 2.5 seconds will usually prevent the backstab (if anything taking you too far away for the thief to catch up to you with what little stealth he has left). At this point you simply burst him as much as possible, rinse, and repeat until he dies. Also, for those getting one-hit by a backstab, let me throw some numbers at you. Base damage on a backstab with a full ‘zerker thief is approximately 1200 IF AND ONLY IF YOU GET HIT IN THE BACK. If hit from the front the damage is approximately 600 (aka, half). Now, compare this to a full ’zerker warrior. Base damage for eviscerate stage 3 (full adrenaline) is approximately 1800. That’s 1.5X a backstab that hits in the back, and 3X a backstab that hits in the face. Then, we have a ‘zerker mesmer. Mind wrack when traited for more damage ALSO DOES MORE DAMAGE THAN A BACKSTAB. I don’t recall exact numbers, but I can say I have seen a 15k mind wrack. So the only reason people complain about backstab is it’s “spammability” aka, it’s ability to be used over and over. However, people fail to recognize the 3 second reveal debuff, and the requirement to both be in stealth AND hit in the back. Also, a ’zerker warrior has WAY more survivability than a ’zerker thief, and a ’zerker mesmer has plenty of ways to survive as well (multiple invulnerabilites, clones to tank for them, and lots of cc). Given all of this information, there is no way you can claim that thief has the advantage over other classes that typically have ’zerker builds.

3. Perma-evade with S/D builds
First and foremost, it is not perma-evade. The only way a thief can get perma-evade is through spear 5 spam with withdraw, roll for initiative, and infiltrator’s signet while underwater, which is op. Otherwise, the thief is vulnerable approximately 50% of the time if played well, and 55-60% of the time if played poorly. This is about equal to the 3s stealth 3s revealed of a D/X build. If you can’t hit a thief playing S/D, it’s probably that the thief is out-playing you, not simply 3-spamming. A ’zerker S/D thief is going to drop very quickly and is very succeptible to channel attacks and rapid fire attacks (ranger short bow, engi flamethrower/grenades, etc.). Also, the only move that does reasonable damage is Larcenous Strike (with a base damage of about 1k), and is very obvious and easily avoidable.

So, next time you fight a thief, take these things into account and see how easy they are to kill. Granted, there are thieves out there that are very good, learn from their mistakes, and will simply outplay you. However, this is no different than every other class out there. The problem most people have with thieves is that they have never played one and thus don’t understand how they work. My main advice if you’re still having trouble fighting thieves is to play one and level it to about 40 just to learn the basic rotations that work so you can effectively anticipate their next move.

If there is any complaint about thieves I missed, please point it out and I’ll do my best to prove that wrong too. If you disagree with anything I said feel free to debate me and I’ll do my best to prove my points.

The only time I use SR in a duel is if I’m fighting another thief. Since I play S/D most of the time I don’t really need the stealth, and I only ever use it in a fight vs a thief as a quick evasion of a backstab. Other than that, the only other reason I’d use it is while playing a P/D condi build for the insta-stealth + life steal.

Regarding thieves guild: I’d only use it in a duel if I’m fighting a necro using Lich Form. Otherwise, with runes of Lyssa, basi venom can give a lot more utility and a more skill-based fight, and dagger storm is useful going up against rangers to reflect their projectiles right back at them and give you the edge.

Just bringing this back to page 1 again. C’mon guys, let’s get signed up!

QUE FOR ET BORDERLANDS!!!!! I haven’t seen that in months!! Unfortunately, for a 5-man group, this just means constant wipes to 30 man zergs. But, we did get some good outnumbered wins, so all in all a good start to the week.

@PAXA thanks for the 5v5’s tonight. We had two replacements and are fairly new to begin with, but it was great getting the fighting experience. We’re currently working on the group comp and strategies so next time we meet we may be very different and a much better fight.

Bas.7406:

Holy cow, with your new condition will we see the profession tournament thieves run condition damage. Several of the teams are already full. Don’t fall behind let’s get rolling!

Not all probably, but I expect it will come into play. I know I can’t be the only thief under rank 30 guys let’s get signed up!

Jscull.2514:

For the love of god, come and fight us. PAXA will be outside the EB ET’s spawn. We would like to fight some players….

Just started spreading the word. We should have 5 people at 9:00 EST at EB ET spawn. See you then, and don’t hold back!

Jscull.2514:

Craig.2403:

Jscull.2514:

Craig,

I think I remember that fight. That was more than a teal Zerg that was like a 40+ man on a map with 10 total (from all 3 servers) on it. Ridiculous. It’s not fun for us either man. Absolutely, would love to have teams that want to challenge us. What people don’t know about us is when you come at us with a legit competitive Attitude and do your best to win, we are the last people to talk kitten. It’s not an ego thing at that point for PAXA members. It is about healthy competition and fights… That should be the driving force in guild wars 2. Not Zerg to win cause you’re scared to lose. Time and place Craig, well meet you tonight! What guild are y’all from?

We’re TFI. We have been trying to get a 5 man team going for about a week now for WvW roaming and tPvP. We will hopefully have that team ready by Monday, but we may not be facing you then. We normally roam in Ferg BL between the southern camps, starting at around 9:00 EST.
P.S. The motivation to get the party out roaming has consistently been “we have to see if we can beat PAXA.” Just wanted to let you know you’re actually getting more of my guild into WvW, and making it even more fun.

Thats awesome! What spurred you guys? We welcome the challenge my friend.

I don’t know everything that came into play, but here are a few reasons:
1. get the guild’s name into the WvW and PvP scene.
2. Provide an alternative to zerging that (we believe) is more fun and just as effective (I think you would agree with this too).
3. After seeing a video of 3 people demolishing a 15 man group, we started to look into creating a small group to help our world (which many times can’t even field a zerg) deal with the badly outmanned situation.

Jscull.2514:

Craig,

I think I remember that fight. That was more than a teal Zerg that was like a 40+ man on a map with 10 total (from all 3 servers) on it. Ridiculous. It’s not fun for us either man. Absolutely, would love to have teams that want to challenge us. What people don’t know about us is when you come at us with a legit competitive Attitude and do your best to win, we are the last people to talk kitten. It’s not an ego thing at that point for PAXA members. It is about healthy competition and fights… That should be the driving force in guild wars 2. Not Zerg to win cause you’re scared to lose. Time and place Craig, well meet you tonight! What guild are y’all from?

We’re TFI. We have been trying to get a 5 man team going for about a week now for WvW roaming and tPvP. We will hopefully have that team ready by Monday, but we may not be facing you then. We normally roam in Ferg BL between the southern camps, starting at around 9:00 EST.
P.S. The motivation to get the party out roaming has consistently been “we have to see if we can beat PAXA.” Just wanted to let you know you’re actually getting more of my guild into WvW, and making it even more fun.

@PAXA we had an epic 2v3 going until your zerg came along I know you guys probably didn’t want the zerg to come as much as we didn’t, but I still wish they hadn’t come. Also if you ever want a 5v5 PM me while I’m on and I’ll see if I can get a group together. I so want a legitimate fight against you and the one time we started to get one your zerg came (why did we have to fight by a Ferg tower lol).

Name: Netherdark
Account Name: Craig.2403
Rank: 10
Will not be recording
P.S. May end up beeing a bit late but hopefully will be there in time. Schedule is shaky this time of year

Jscull.2514:

Friday and sat nights are hands down the WORST nights to play this game. Horrible blobs of super high talent running around.

This. So much this. I have now given up on playing my thief on Friday and Saturday.

/respect to the two KoM mesmers we fought in HoD borderlands today (I was the sword/dagger thief running with the dagger/dagger thief from ET). Didn’t end up fighting the second one but the first was amazing. I only wish that commander didn’t feel the need to repeatedly bring a zerg to wipe us (I guess we just got on his nerves after I had his zerg chasing me around a tower for about 10 minutes and reducing his zerg size by about 2 or 3 lol). Hopefully we will meet again with no zerg to repeatedly disrupt our fun.

@Detharos: I must side with KoM on this one. After a semi-long fight with a PAXA ele that I saw you fight in which you ran away when 1 ET ran towards you I proceded to follow you to see if I could take you. After getting you to half health before you even hit me you proceeded to run away into the water. Granted, your fight with the PAXA ele was decent, but you did run away when 1 other person came (who could have just as easily attacked the PAXA ele too) and when I then engaged you proceeded to run away from a 1v1. Therefore based on my experiences in seeing you I must side with KoM in this.

Here’s the picture my guildie had.

Hematuria.4051:

Craig.2403:

I must apologize to the FC zerg trying to take Greenbriar in their borderlands. We were just having too many lols. Because of us it took you guys like an hour just to break down a reinforced wall… and there were only 4 of us. LOL. Permastealth is so rediculously overpowered. We were sitting in Raidcall laughing the entire time because we triggered orange swords by having 25+ people attacking 4 people, and still lived to fight. So I must apologize for the frustration you must have gone through trying to kill us for an hour. Then of course, I make it into the tower and YOU DIDN’T SWEEP!!! After 3 thieves and a mesmer are screwing with you, you don’t take the time to sweep a tower and leave a permastealth thief inside (unfortunately we didn’t get the mesmer inside) to spike an elementalist who thought they had made it to safety inside their own tower. Oh the lols.

Did you really LOL? That musta been epic.

Yup, my guildie even has pictures of him sleeping on top of the ruins with the zerg frantically searching for him below. It was absolutely hilarious.

I must apologize to the FC zerg trying to take Greenbriar in their borderlands. We were just having too many lols. Because of us it took you guys like an hour just to break down a reinforced wall… and there were only 4 of us. LOL. Permastealth is so rediculously overpowered. We were sitting in Raidcall laughing the entire time because we triggered orange swords by having 25+ people attacking 4 people, and still lived to fight. So I must apologize for the frustration you must have gone through trying to kill us for an hour. Then of course, I make it into the tower and YOU DIDN’T SWEEP!!! After 3 thieves and a mesmer are screwing with you, you don’t take the time to sweep a tower and leave a permastealth thief inside (unfortunately we didn’t get the mesmer inside) to spike an elementalist who thought they had made it to safety inside their own tower. Oh the lols.

to the mesmer in [KING] with bolt: you amazing. Never fought a better mesmer.

to the Elementalist I fought 1v1 for about 7 min before some random person from ET came and joined me (I yelled at him not to attack, but alas): /respect. I almost have to thank that random guy because had he not come we might have been there all night.

to the random person from ET that joined the fight: I TOLD YOU NOT TO ATTACK!! /sigh

to everyone on all servers: been a great week. SF, nice to see you back, we on ET missed you big bro.