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Anyway @gadenp and all:
Yeah I’d say, in Sociology terms, that’s probably exactly the emotions and how they were caused that set off this attack against rangers.
But the attack is misguided. People are saying the DESIGN of Rangers is flawed, and how we are good at NOTHING compared to other classes. This is false.
The constructive way to handle that anger is to go to General discussion or something, and make a 100 page thread about “The way you handle patches and changes to this game suck. We’re tired of being lied to” because don’t get me wrong, I’m no fan of it either. Hiding a straight up nerf while also breaking a skill under the guise of “animation nerf” is just straight dripping with sleaze. Having no time to discuss upcoming “planned” changes or test them is unheard of and BS. But that’s PR, its probably a whole different department from the devs that designed this class who I like.
That’s actually a very valid post gadenp.
First, though Ranvo, you mention Thieves and LDB spam. That’s a one trick pony build. Bleeds are pretty much the ONLY condition they can spam. Bleeds which count as one condition and can be removed that way.
And yes Initiative wise you can spam LDB. But there is a delay after each cast where it CANNOT be combod into another one. You are vulnerable to CC (Point blank shot being perfect here, for the LB haters) for ~1sec between casts.
You’re talking damage here. Again. Damage. Yes Thieves will surpass us in damage. Their AoE bleed stacking will do more over time than us. I’m fine with that.
But they don’t have AoE, BURNING (this is a BURST condition), Chill, Poison, Immobilize, Immobilize+Bleeds.
Also Quickness. I haven’t used this even though its been key to every build I’ve ever rolled on Ranger, but we have the most access to quickness in the game (reliable, because I know thieves have a built in Sigil of Rage trait), every 16-20 seconds. This alone can make us time our bursts effectively and finish people off. When SB QZ is fixed, it will give us the most burst more OFTEN (how often can a warrior frenzy+100B? How often can a Thief set-up his backstab burst?) from RANGED.
Offhand (and your link is broken) I am not aware how Thieves have access to 100% Vigor. Yes they have a form of “evade while doing damage” just like we have a form of “single target burst.” But I’d argue ours is better. We can chain our evades, our pet is doing damage while we are evading, and we have control built into our aoe damage while evading.
I’m playing tPvP with some guildies (not a full group) right now. I’m running SB/LB in spite of SB QZ, with Wolf/Drakehound pets. Having no trouble kiting/ CCing from Ranged, or causing havoc with my pet.
My pets hurt too, in this recent match (gotten to final round waiting for other match to finish) I soloed a thief from 80% while downed with my pet, just by timing my 2 correctly.
Pets do damage. So make sure youre paying attention to them. Man when one of my dogs knocks someone down its lights out.
But yes I tPvP pretty regularly as well as dungeon and WvW. You’ll have to trust me when I say I played the ranger up and down inside and out before I would even think of making a thread like this
Ok. And what classes u played seriously besides ranger?
You must be aware of what it means – balance. You should know that there are noobs, and there are pro, casuals and grinders, some people play better than others … You can win with unbalanced class of people who play worse than you. But if you will fight with person playing another, god balansed, class at your skill level and knowing your class, you’ll never defeat him, just because your class is weaker. And ranger is weaker than all others.
Like stated before, my Thief is my main alt. I also played Mesmer in all the betas and have on I sPvP with occasionally.
I regularly duel my warrior friend to try out specs. I have only lost to him when I tried melee ranger against his Sword/Sword bleed build, because he could out dps me in melee. I consider him to be more skilled at this game as well, so its funny that most people are leaving Ranger for Warrior when in that specific match up I think our kit is better than theirs in a duel. My warrior friend also laughed when I mentioned this thread and that people were re-rolling because “Warrior ranged weapons suck.” So there you go.
Sit back and look at your post, Ranger is flat out weaker than all others in every duel in every matchup? What are you trying to say? In duels we have easy and hard matchups, with Guardian and Necro being the toughest because of our lack of Retaliation stripping and complete cond removal.
Are you saying teamfights? What we bring to the team is straight up worse than all other classes? Don’t you realize how close minded that is? We bring something DIFFERENT to the team. I and many others have stated what that is several times in this thread, I’m not going to beat the dead horse any longer.
I’m playing tPvP with some guildies (not a full group) right now. I’m running SB/LB in spite of SB QZ, with Wolf/Drakehound pets. Having no trouble kiting/ CCing from Ranged, or causing havoc with my pet.
My pets hurt too, in this recent match (gotten to final round waiting for other match to finish) I soloed a thief from 80% while downed with my pet, just by timing my 2 correctly.
Pets do damage. So make sure youre paying attention to them. Man when one of my dogs knocks someone down its lights out.
But yes I tPvP pretty regularly as well as dungeon and WvW. You’ll have to trust me when I say I played the ranger up and down inside and out before I would even think of making a thread like this
Pray your teammates will do something? Are we talking tPvP here? If your teammates don’t take advantage of AoE lockdown that YOU provide, is that the fault of the ranger class or the fault of your team?
What does the guardian have compared to us in AoE LOCKDOWN, not AoE pushback.
My pet never dies in tPvP. Swap is always up before it dies from AoE. If it is being focused then thats GOOD for me as well. Your post is full of genealizations such as “moderately low damage.” and exaggeration like “pet hits once then dies”
Sure maybe don’t take all 3. Entangle+ Frost trap? Throw some axes watch them bounce? Throw in some AoE Fear/Immobilize? Time and again this is effective in Team vs. Team combat over a major point.
What I find the most funny is how guardians deal “considerable” damage while we deal “moderately low” damage, when I’ve found the reverse is true of our respective support specs.
There’s a lot of negative bias and perception in your post, and “Grass is greener” syndrome. And hell, maybe I’m blinded by my own positive thinking? Who knows.
I just know I’m definitely having fun with my class and not abandoning it.
yeah, basically if you dont have Protect Me, SoS, and SoR on your bar, youre cooked in tpvp.
I find that if you have those you are basically a pure tank. You can hold a point WHILE putting out damage with Protect me and SoS while you wait for backup. Eventually you will die yes, but we are not as adept at point holding as Guardian.
If you need 12 seconds of invulnerability and a complete Cond reset to not be “cooked” you are not utilizing your dodges/CC effectively imo.
Spike trap immobilizes for 1 second on activation currently.
Also Healing Spring removes conditions… I am pretty certain of this. I have seen conditions with remaining duration disappear in a healing spring, with no allies around. I find it quite easy to run with no form of Invuln, I only run protect me and SoS if I WANT to be tanky, melee, in the fray and distracting. For ranged it is not necessary and you can take 2 survival skills easily.
Empathatic bond can be your form of Condition removal, which I’ve found is more than enough in most scenarios with Healing Spring.
Maybe I’m not playing against strong enough competition? Maybe. Maybe I am just utilizing my ability to kite/dodge effectively though?
You can run whatever the hell you want in sPvP and be viable. I’ve had fun with my GS/Sword BM burst spec that gets 10+ stacks of might on my pet for the burst (usually Raven).
In tPvP, yeah, there are only going to be only a few viable specs per class. This is to be expected, but with creativity I think any team comp can work. Rangers have plenty of specs to be a duelist, a point holder, group dps, group controller.
also, ive played the evasion tank at the tpvp level, and it’s all well and good until you get immobilized and CRUSHED. yeah, rangers dont have immobilize-breakers. lulz. until lightning reflexes can break immobilize, sword/dagger is laughable.
Immobilize is a very powerful condition, especially against classes with more stunbreakers than Cond removal.
We ourselves have access to Spider F2, Entagling Roots, Muddy Terrain, and Spike trap. Is there another class that can immobilize more than us and in AoE?
Have you tried Empathatic bond/Healing Spring? I see people’s builds in tPvP without Healing Spring and I can’t understand why. The CD for Heal as One is not worth it, HS is too good. Did you know it removes a condition EVERY time it applies Regeneration? Throw a HS down on a point and see if anyone can immobilize you and burst you. Take Signet of Renewal and be quick on the trigger.
The last part, and all parts of this thread like that, are my frustration directed at people saying “y ranger, re-roll warrior thief.” They are people that come in and go “I want to do what a warrior/thief does best on my Ranger, and I can’t do it as well as them so qq.” I’m trying to get those people to understand that this isn’t the class for them, Warrior/THIEF is.
Thief for yourself. Is evasion, just simple “dodge” what you want out of class? Yeah Thieves “dodge” is better than ours. But show my what synergy they have in their traits or skills that make them TANKY in between dodges. LDB can not be chained and is melee and costs 5 initiative. Shortbow 3 does mediocre damage while evading and then they have no points left to use cluster if thats what you spam (which is horribly slow at ranged anyway).
I am not saying you aren’t experienced with other classes/builds, I’m saying you’re approaching the problem from the wrong angle Kharza.
What do you want out of our class? Let’s start with that. To be viable? As stated before you can play a Ranger anyway you want, but there is always going to be a “most viable” build for what you are trying to accomplish.
If you are trying to accomplish Evade spam and being “hard to catch” then Thief is your class. What do you want to happen to the Ranger? For them to buffed to have MORE mobility for the Thief? Then why play a Thief?
Do you want Rangers to buffed to have EQUAL or MORE ranged damage than a warrior? Why play a warrior then?
Do you want us to be able to stack multiple conditions better than a Necro? Then why play a Necro?
Do you see where I am going with this?
Evasion/Mid-Range control/Skirmishing. Doing damage WHILE dodging. Not being paper when our dodges run out (Thief). Not being unable to stick to our target if kited (Warrior).
I just think the anger is being misdirected. I think there are some (yourself included) that are dissatisfied with the current state of the Ranger with the bugs and nerf and are taking it out on our class design unfairly by looking at other classes at saying “well look what THEY can do. What do WE have compared to that? NOTHING.” To say we have nothing is unfair.
Then there is the other half that is angry, because they wanted damage and when that went away with a nerf+bug, they became frigid and unwilling to accept any other style of play the ranger has to offer. Those people need to roll another class, or wait for the SB to be fixed and keep on playing that one spec into the ground.
I’m not “dismissing” any opinion thats well reasoned and shows me how the Ranger falls short compared to other classes. I’m enjoying trying to convince you and others the way our evasion and style is different than a Thieves’. I am “dismissing” people who should not be in this class or forum because they are approaching the Ranger by simplifying it and wanting it to be good at what THEY want it to be good at.
All that said Ravn’s points on our trait lines are valid. That is something I can agree we need work on besides the bugs, because many of our trait lines are bloated and need consolidation (Spirit traits, BM, Pet traits in Skirmishing, etc,) but I feel that discussion for be another thread.
Glad for some ranger love in this forum.
@Ravn: A lot of your posts look and sound nice, but there is a lot of flawed reasoning and false deductions there.
Let’s start with me, because apparently you’ve psychoanalyzed me and deduced that “I’m not happy unless everyone shares my opinion.” Aka the reason I made this thread.
This couldn’t be further from the truth. I’ve been having a great time on my ranger, and I’ve avoided posting/reading this forum since the SB nerf (and even then, before that it was pretty bad) because of all the negativity and lack of constructive thought. You won’t find me in a single qq thread saying “u suck l2p” “stop whining.”
No, I made this thread to be, as Nuwen nicely put it, a “safe haven” for people that like this class and are willing to tough it out through the bugs. I made this thread to explain to people what I believe is the strength of the Ranger class, and that if they want something else there are OTHER classes for it.
Like the Warrior that you mention. Do they have better Burst than us if pulled off? Yes. Are their SINGLE target bleeds more effective than ours/scale better? Yes.
I could go to every other profession forum and go “So what are u guiz better than Rangurs @?” And come back here and say LOOK, LOOK AT HOW GOOD EVERY OTHER CLASS IS AT X, Y, Z. What’s your point? This thread is to discuss what RANGERS are the BEST at. So far I haven’t seen a single argument to persuade me otherwise.
Warriors are simple. Do you notice anyone whining about Necros anymore? People started figuring them out and they are very effective now. Did you know back in the first Beta events people thought MESMERS were lackluster and did horrible damage? Sound familiar?
I’m almost proud of the whiners that hate on our class. It just shows me how indepth and skill-based our class really is and will take to reach our max potential. Can you look at me with a straight face and say 4+ Free dodges+Endurance regen+AoE immobilize and Chill does NOT have potential as class compared to others?
Dodges are 100% ONE HUNDRED PERCENT mitigation. We have the most built in ones in the game.
As someone else mentioned, quite beautifully, Thieves have linear mobility. They are in or out. They are In your face with shadow step, or 50 yards away. But they are not IN the fight while they are mobile. Rangers are. Rangers’ pets are. We are doing DAMAGE while you are not. I can live with doing 15% (made-up #) less damage than another class while standing steal if I can do 100% more than they are while I’m using my free dodges. Are we weak to condition stacking? Moreso than other classes yes, but Empathatic Bond+SoR+Healing Spring+Spirit of Nature is pretty kitten good, and I’m seeing 30 in WS as becoming more in more staple in PvP builds.
And warriors? Sure, have better cond damage and single target bleeds in me. I have never lost a duel to a Cond damage warrior as a ranger. He can’t REACH me to stack those bleeds. He can’t STUN ME to use that 100B. Warriors are simple. When the cards line up you die, but they have limited set-up or control FOR those burst outside of melee range.
Rangers are complex. When we line our cards up, you can’t HIT us. Your damage is MITIGATED completely. All the while you’re taking damage to either pets, traps, torches, your own PROJECTILES, etc.
I also am loving the one liner generalization posts like: “Another fanboi thread np” “how much does John P pay you” and the like. Because you have nothing to say, because deep down you know your “ANet doesn’t play rangers, they hate rangers” is full of crap and baseless.
So, either learn to Ranger right or re-roll. It seems like there are plenty of us here that want to maximize the potential of this class and be patient with it.
I understand people are upset and annoyed at our bugs. But they are taking it out ineffectively.
Posting here every single day that our class has many bugs won’t get them to be fixed any faster.
Any player worth their salt won’t get hit by anything, I don’t understand the point you are trying to make.
It is difficult to get our maximum dps off because we have to cc for our pets to do consistent damage, yet. You know that Spiders immobilize right? You know that Cats and Dogs have leaps, with the dogs having a leap KD right? These are gap closers, these can be chained with your own CC. There are ways and, once again we have the TOOLS to be viable and effective in PvP and PvE.
What I see ankittenrying to reduce are the people who used rangers solely for their burst SB dps spec, coming to our forums because this was nerfed/bugged and crying “WELL EVERYTHING ELSE KITTEN SUCKS RANGERS ARE BROKEN.”
No. Everything else does NOT suck. Is SB our highest single target dps/burst build? From range, YES, it is. And once the QZ bug is fixed I’m sure it will remain viable. But for the MEANtime people are leaving the class because they are inflexible or unable to see how other builds for the ranger work. And I’m saying “have fun with warrior” OR “if you want to stay, consider this as a our class’ strength. Or discuss with me why not.”
I don’t think pets are broken. I think pets are fine with minor tweaks such as F2 cast time and dungeon survivability.
I DON"T want to play in a game where pets with 30%+swiftness movement speed that can keep up with me while I strafe/dodge and stick on me while ANOTHER person is raining hell on me or Meleeing me and shooting traps on me exists. This will make rangers OVERPOWERED and will either result in a nerf to all our dps across the board or pets dps. This will destroy our PvE solo game which many people are in love with.
Pets are NOT going to be able to attack while moving, I’m saving this prediction in stone right now. You’re not going to see it happen, so if you can’t live with the way pets function (as opposed to possible tweak, I mean their base functioning), then you are being lazy (aka "I just want free dps I don’t have to micro or think about!) or not in the right class.
That’s enough for one day though, good night.
@Nic: You’re going to nitpick semantics on the class description page? Really?
Look, I’m taking what ANET has given me, the ranger’s ENTIRE kit, and come to a conclusion on what it is best at. You are forcing a one line description-one word OUT OF CONTEXT mind you-from the GW2 homepage and saying that Devs called us unparalled so all other ranged options for other classes should suck compared to us?
Are our melee options supposed to suffer for this “ranged king” idea you want? What if I want to play a melee class with a pet?
There is another line you left out:
" rangers can adapt to any situation."
Which is what I believe, and plenty others in this thread have posted, they see as the true design of the ranger. Adapters, controllers, all around well balanced in skirmishing a fight.
You can play your class however you want. If you want to play a Ranged dps that doesn’t rely on pet dps to be effective then you will have to suffer with our current numbers. Because our longbow DOES hurt. Opening Strike+LB 3= 15% damage increase.
Flanking? 10%
Endurance full? 10%
+sigils, might, fury from warhorn, etc.
That rapid fire if quicknessed HURTS. ALONE. That’s NOT including the dps increase we have from our PET that other classes don’t.
It seems to me like you want our RANGED WEAPONS by themselves to be MORE DAMAGING than others. This will not happen because our class-specific tool is so strong, because it is another dps source. Our pet is taken into account for our dps.
“But Fate in PvE my pet gets melted.”
Are you using a Bear? Spiders/Devourers? My pets in PvE kitten face. In dungeons? I’m forced to switch it up to accommodate. Bears/Birds+16 sec swap time allows them to live through most fight when microd. There are some fights they will not live, just as there are fights whether other classes abilities can not be utilized 100%
“Well in PvP my pet gets kited”
Well what are you doing while they kite your pet? They have to kite TWO damage sources, and that can be overwhelming especially if you add in a teamfight. I already went over how you need to be able to lockdown targets for your pet as well and be mindful of its positioning.
Fate, and what can you offer in addition to trap build? Or at least, instead of?
If I like the variation. For example at the necromancer I like ALL abilities. And sorry that I can only select 3. I invented up at least 18 different builds, I matured to play comfortably in any situation. And some for specific situations (for some bosses for example).
And for the ranger I can called normal…. only… well.. 3 =/. Moreover, two of them with using ground traps.
Don’t u think it’s a little… unfairly, to deny problems of class, which only have 3(!) good skills, which are, plus to this, becoming good only with two traits?….I guess you do not really understand what you are trying to convey to the members of this forum…
I can think of a few other builds that work, maybe 4 or 5.
But you’re right, and you have me here.
We really don’t have the most diverse utility skills, pretty much just:
Signets
Pet shouts
Traps
Survival
Spirits (Currently unviable and underwhelming)
But that’s really just the fact that Spirits being unusable reduced all combinations of traits, utilties, and weapons by 20% which makes us seem a lot less flexible than other classes.
This is one point I WILL concede about the rangers in comparison to some of the other classes, not all our specs are viable.
@Sdric: See above post for difference in kiting potential, also our traps are MUCH larger when traited and can be THROWN from range and much more responsive. Anyone running head first into a thief trap certainly deserves a 3s knockdown.
I want my ranger to work too Kharza. Pet F2 times should be instant and responsive, the devs released a patch changing it so F2 overrides the pets current ability so that they STOP and START the F2. If this is still not working it is a BUG, again a bug not “underpowered” or something wrong with our class design wise.
@Dante: Thieves do damage, yes, and they have a pretty good ranged kit in their Short bow. But its not quite as long range as we can get. And try “spamming” cluster bombs from 900 range, it doesnt work. Dancing Dagger is the same. Thieves are still glass. Sure they can burn initiative to get away from a fight with their SB 3 to get away and you can argue their ranged kiting is superior to ours with withdraw and roll for initiative. But neither of those are stun breaks, so if you lock down a thief force him and throw some conditions on him watch him burn. The single target on SB isn’t superior to our Single target ranged burst either.
I’ve stated that Warriors trump us in terms of AoE control. Rifle butt is a melee ability. If you can line up 3 people in melee-and not be dead- to Rifle butt them then by all means.
Also the thing with Ranger long bow is… yes the Longbow 1 isn’t the most damage out there. But at 1500 potential range it is safe damage. Nothings touching you 1500 range away. And why sit there and spam it? 20% Reduced CD on SB and LB I never even have to touch LB auto attack. If I want to stay safe and wait for heal CDs? I’ll be putting out some damage as well, some, not “omgwtf” damage. Now, I DO miss SB auto like everyone else. I feel like that really gutted our “if we flank you and hit QZ, you die” that should definitely be an option for our class. Because we can flank with our mobility, and should be rewarded with it.
Rangers and Duelign 1v1
This is something I’ve been seeing a lot of. We are “weak” in 1v1. I think that the opposite is true. I think we can be extremely strong in 1v1 with you know our pet making it 2v1 and all our free dodges. I think that the majority of the player base hasn’t mastered evasion, knowing other classes and when to dodge the combo they are trying to set-up. Myself including, I’m no “ranger guru” I’ve gotten bursted down by 100B warriors because I failed to dodge it or take LR my share of times, but I realize that’s on ME to improve, not on ANET to buff my class.
Our tools are there, we need to learn how to use them effectively, not whine when they aren’t simple to learn or use.
@jnu: you’re right. I was aware of the AoE fields on LB but unfamiliar with some of the rifle kit.
Warriors are very good at melee control with stomp, fear me, and the like. I’ll edit the OP to focus more on our mid-range control.
@Kharza: I actually play a Thief as well, its my first alt, and I use it to PvP regularly.
The mobility is not the same. If I want to get from A to point B ASAP, yes Shortbow 5 is an excellent ability to close gaps. Then when I get there I’m out of initiative, so it has its costs.
I’m talking about onpoint skirmish mobility. You mention Roll for Initiative and Withdraw. Both have you roll BACKWARD away from whatever you’re fighting. I can dodge any way I want. I can dodge around you with my Sword+Dagger. I have the best melee gap closer in the game without spending any initiative points.
ALSO when I am dodging as a ranger I am still doing damage through my pets and traps As a thief? Sure, evade and withdraw away. I’m not going to chase you and I don’t care, I’ve gotten you off my objective and you’re doing kitten for damage. Sure is it harder to CATCH a thief than a ranger? Absolutely. Caltrops+3 Dodges will kitten you up, so don’t chase them. Simple counter. Ranger? You can catch. But its going to hurt running through my traps and pets.
Thieves burst is better. Yes. I’ve gotten those 10k+ Backstab crits, and they were nice. But the opportunity for it doesn’t happen that often. It takes a lot of preparation and timing. And people KNOW to focus a Thief because they melt. They are like paper in traps. I’ve killed thieves who tried to stay permanently stealthed against me.
Control: Yes midrange control with traps. How are Mesmers better? They have a few single target stuns, 1 aoe shatter daze, and what? My gf mains a mesmer and I played one for the first two Betas. They can duel the kitten out of you, they can kill you if you make one mistake yes. Again I am not here to talk about what Mesmers do better than Rangers because THEY DO, I am here to say they do not do EVERYTHING better and what we do better than EVERYONE else.
That’s what this thread is about, getting people to understand what our niche is, and either they like it or they need to go to another class that has the niche they are looking for. But the statement “everyone else does everything better” is flat out not true.
Coming on the ranger forum and calling everyone noobs basically, because we are making legit complaints about a broken profession is a good way to make friends I hear.
Fate, your bad, always will be bad, and clearly haven’t played other class’s because your whole wall of text screams I don’t know what im talking about our class has “minor” bugs thats all guyzzzz!
You aren’t really summarizing my post correctly, which happens a lot when you don’t fully understand/read it.
There are a lot of bugs, yes, there are no doubt that some of these even hinder our ability to play a certain spec/way. Your legitimate complaints about bugs are heard. Your illegitimate whining about our damage or the way our class works falls on deaf ears.
Thank you for the predictable post Namu. I’m not here to make friends I’m here to shed light on the other side of the Ranger community who really like this class and want to understand it and use it to its fullest potential.
I had no idea that Healing Spring granted vigor to allies as well with the Vigorous Renewal trait, thanks for the tip.
@deepwinter: Once again, those are bugs and I addressed them. Obviously bugs need to be fixed. Our class though, and the numbers for the most part, are a lot better than what everyone seems to be making and I’m glad there are more people that agree with me.
@barruktp: Traits are up to you whether you need traps or not. Don’t touch the Marksmanship tree if you’re Melee centered, or even have 1 melee/1 range imo. I think the Wildnerness Survival tree up to 10 points is a must for any ranger. At 10 points you can have Vigorous Renewal for melee based ranger, or if you use QZ/LR the 20% Reduction on Survival abilities is excellent.
My “maximum” burst build is centered around my pet and getting obscene amounts of might, so I have 15 in BM for the reduced swap cooldown and 3 stacks of might on swap and 15 in Nature Magic so all the might buffs I get from Sigil of Strength go to my pet (which is a lot if you use it with quickness.)
I love traps as well so I have 30 in Skrimishing. Plus the best pet traits are in the skirmish line also. (30% Increased Crit damage+Carnivorous Apetite+Trap Mastery). I don’t take the ranged trap talent because I’m in melee range anyway when I set off traps, but sometimes I switch to it when I use Axe/Warhorn.
So I typically swoop in, go to town on someone, and then use traps to lockdown the rest with traps while abusing my block, dodges and vigor.
There are other playstyles that can be used. I know a lot of people going 20/25/10/15 for LB/SB and being very successful and kiting and being untouchable with consistent damage output and quickness.
Why you’re doing it wrong
Rangers are not ranged thieves. Stop wanting them to be. Stop rolling a warrior in an attempt to find a ranged thief that can burst someone down in seconds. Just go play a thief if you want big numbers.
Rangers are EXPERTS at:
-Control
This is not mindgame mesmer conrtol. This is straight up: CONTROL. You say are ranged weapons suck compared to Warriors?
Compare our control abilities:
Rifle butt: Range 130 – Point Black Shot: Range 600
Pin Down: Single Target Immobilize 3s – Barrage: AoE Cripple for 12s if Channelled
Short bow 3 – None on Warriors Weaponkits
Short bow 5- No comparison on Warriors weapon kits
On SB we have-Free dodge and gap creator, Cripple, Stun/Daze from ranged.
That’s what we bring to a team/dungeon. Control.
Traps, no one else does traps as well as us. Thief traps are a really a joke when compared. Ice Trap is underused and underappreciated. You know we are one of only two classes capable of creating Ice fields? Do you know how MASSIVE an AoE -66% DPS (yes DPS, skill recharge rate=DPS) and Movement reduction is? That can be applied and stacked as a combo field? These fields are huge for dungeons, these traps are huge for point control/skirmishes in PvP.
Pets-they bring control. Huge amounts. Canines with leap knockdowns and AoE Fear/Immobilize. Raven with Blind/burst. Black Bear with AoE Weakness. The list goes on. You need to COMBINE your cc with your pet. You CC they CC. Stop complaining that they just walk away from your pets, its like a warrior complaining they just walk away from 100B without anyother CC to set it up. The range on most of the howls are huge anyway.
-Mobility
This is what Warriors DON"T have. You dodge their bulls charge or stun break it? What do they do. They cry. They get kited. By YOU.
You can’t argue we don’t have the best mobility in the game. Thieves? They are good at engage/disengage. But during a fight? They are pretty limited at getting around. You can predict their movements in stealth or have them set off traps.
We have the most free dodges in the game.
1. Lightning Reflexes
2. Shortbow 3
3. Dagger 4
4. Sword 3
5. Sword 2
6. GS 1, yes, a LAND AUTO ATTACK with a free Evade. This is huge.
This is also without using endurance. This is without the easy accses to vigor on heal/crit we have or 50% natural permanent endurace regen.
Speaking of Greatsword. What an undervalued set. People still focus on “not enough damage.” The PET brings the damage. And the Greatsword brings you and your pet TO the fight.
Swoop is the biggest melee cap closer IN THE GAME. It is 1200 range. You Swoop into Muddy Terrain/Spike Trap/Ice Trap then come to be complaining about pets not hitting their target. Swoop+Pet Swap+Weapon swap to a more bursty weapon.
-Support
In addition to all this we have great support abilities. Traps themselves offer great support for other classes to combo. Control goes into being support. Now let’s talk about Healing Spring/Spirit of Nature. Healing Spring, again, being one of only THREE classes that can bring a water field which can=permanent regen to your PvE or PvP team. AoE healig on splash.
Spirit of Nature brings a Warbanner every THIRTY SECONDS, AND heals AND removes conditions. Yes it can die, but that is time you bought/your positioning. Someone should have to go out of position to kill it and you can exploit that with your CC.
“But Fate guardian’s do conditional removal better.” Yes they do, but they don’t have the rest of our kit with mobility and control. WE DO. Stop talking about what other classes have and what we don’t, and focus on what we DO have and are good at.
Conclusion
This isn’t too much of a L2P thread. Its a “open up your mind and look at your class as it IS and was MEANT to be.” If you are STUCK on the idea HAVING to use ranged weapons SB/LB and WANTING to see large numbers while afk shootign someone, then either
1. Suck it up and realize our ranged weapons bring much more control and mobility than a warrior
2. Roll a warrior and have fun seeing big numbers everyone once in awhile against people that stand still, and thinking banners > Traps.
I cannot stress this enough. Stop whining about our damage. If you WANT TO DO DAMAGE AND ONLY DAMAGE this is not your class. I don’t know why you thought it would be. I don’t know how much research you did about pets being key to our sucess or the versatility of our kits, but you didn’t do enough.
Bugs will be fixed, eventually.
But our class design is beautiful and fun for those that want it.
Now please think before you post, “is this a problem with the Ranger or a problem with what I want out of a class?”
(edited by Fate.8673)
I’ve come here prepared to be flamed.
Because I know the satisfied rangers that love their class are out there enjoying it, such as myself who has been reading this forum since launch. I’ve finally found time to voice the opinion of a satisfied ranger.
Now first off-yes the bug with SB 1 and QZ is UNACCEPTABLE, and I am with everyone there. The answer to this is not to spam whine threads but be patient and see if it is not fixed in the next patch. All the bugs listen in the sticky are also addressed, but these are BUGS not design flaws. Also yes, Spirits are for the most part unviable (Spirit of Nature exception), but most classes have a currently unviable spec.
But rangers, everywhere else, are NOT the bottom of the barrel class they are being made out to be.
You are just doing it wrong.
Let’s address the complaints before I go into the strengths and the way to properly play a ranger.
-Lack of damage compared to Warrior
Yes, it’s true that a warrior as is has better ranged options for DAMAGE. That’s how it is. Our ranged options alone vs. their’s are inferior because we have a pet. All these “TIME TO ROLLWARRIORZ” threads are getting out of hand. If you WANT TO DO NOTHING BUT DAMAGE FROM RANGE YES ROLL WARRIOR. You don’t belong in this forum or using this class. Goodbye.
-Longbow sucks
Longbow 2 actually has amazing burst damage, throw in quickness on pet swap and you have an easy 5k+ burst every 16-20 seconds. from RANGED.
-Arrows are easy to dodge
First off the bug with longbow being obstructed is again, a bug. Second, yes arrows are easy to dodge, and melee are easy to kite. Do you think about the complaints before you make them? What fix do you propose? Make them undodgeable? What if all the changes you whiners want were implemented? What if rangers could do 10k+burst with longbow/SB from ranged and it was undodgeable? You would ALSO be on the recieving end of an absurd burst combo that is easy to pull off because its from 1200-1500 Range away.
-Pet’s are “broken”
Yes pets could use minor tweaks, reduced cast times and animations. But did you ever stop to think what it would be like if pets COULD attack on the move? If you could just F1 to victory? Back in the beta when people were scrubs and didnt dodge or kite, my cats could solo many players. If pets were unABLE to kited/avoided, it would be a pretty permenant dps increase for rangers without any thought. Pets do a lot of damage and have a lot of varied and niche uses for CC/Protection/Burst. You just need to learn how to use them. Hyena=2 leap knockdowns? Hello? Other classes would KILL to have those for free with no utilities/traits specc’d.
-Weapon sets are weak and unviable. Some of these concerns are ligitimate. Again they are BUGS and require patience. ANET KNOWS Sword 1 roots you in place and is very unsafe to use. The weapon set itself allows for abusrd amounts of burst and might for your pet=more burst. This complaint will lead me into my section for what we are GOOD at, because mostly people are looking at the strict “numbers” for damage that a set does and calling it “weak.”
(edited by Fate.8673)
I’ve noticed this bug:
When combined with the 5 Point BM Trait that gives you and your pet quickness on swap:
-Melee Range
-Swap Pet
-Immediately press F2
The F2 for pets will activate immediately in the direction they are facing and NOT at the target you want them to focus.
E.g. Swap then use a drake’s F2. They will shoot their cone at nothing to the right of the target.
This also happened with my cat/bird pets
This Sigil is NOT working, at least in sPvP on my Thief.
Was attached to my Short bow.
Would swap to it with zero endurance, no haste debuff, in and outside of combat and would receive ZERO endurance gain.
Well here’s the code for this site:
http://en.gw2codex.com/build/generator/
36b7g00000000000ae0ukf53p3sg0g5g9gh
Had a chance to look at it before they moved their site. (I added in my recommended traits)
This is similar to what I’ve been running, although I use GS istnead of Axe/WH for added tankiness and a gap closer to use traps.
A couple things:
For stats I have a mix of Carrion/Rampager’s. I recommend whichever you want to prioritize to get gear for and the other amulet/jewelry. Aka Emblazoned Carrion Armor with rampagers rings, earrings, and amulet.
For the traits, why go 10 into BM? If you have to have quickness thats fine, but thats only 5 into the tree. The other 5 for might stacks? Why not go 5 more into Nature for ALL boons to be shared, which would be fury from weapon swaps and ALL your strength sigil procs?
Enjoy it though! Good to see more unconventional rangers out there.
Please look into this ANet?
Bump, pretty important bug for anyone that’s been affected by it.
I had a full inventory, with loot that was in the box “take all” trying to make space. While making space I noticed I didn’t have my magic find hat on, and instead had my full dps Rare hat on.
So I right clicked equip on my magic find hat, and my CURRENT HAT DISAPPEARED. It did NOT swap places with the magic find hat, and the inventory slot was just empty.
A bug has taken a rare and valuable item from me.
I’ve read from other posts that ANet has said they will NOT restore items to you.
So
What compensation will I get for this bug? It seems reproduceable but I’m not going to just throw away gear to test it again.
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