Guild Wars 2

Most of you are responding to me with the positive sides of the guardian lol like i am not aware of them. Understand that i know all about those and they are not neccessary to bring up at all and this thread is not about that. There are plenty of threads about our good side. This one is about a lack of a mechanic in the class that pushed me to shelve it.

Also most of you respond with things back at me that i never even stated anywhere.
I do not wanna be able to just stand in a zerg of 50 ppl alone and get away. I want when my side is retreating to be able to retreat with them!! How hard is this to understand lol. Most of the time i cant cause theres no mob, my purge sills are on cooldown, i have allot of aggro on me due to my battle presence as melee and a guardian. I also am not saying we have 0 survivability i am saying we have 0 panic buttons! We survive and tank plenty and it is amazing. But create any other class with our same stats and similar traits and they tank just as well and have panic buttons.

Heres a situation that has happend not just once, please read carefully and then tell me what more could i have done:

Me and a thief and a mesmer + 50 more others on our side meet an enemy zerg. We start fighting. The ranged classes get in to the usual ranged dmg aoe standoff and nothing is happening. We just ressin the sqwishies that die to aoe. So its the melee’s job to start pushing and we as guardians are godlike in this department. So me the guardian and the thief and mesmer start pushing them and breakin up their zerg since we are on TS its all in sync. They know i have to be up front so the support me and follow targets. But the enemy is resilliant and decides to push back. Our ranged ppl start backing off leaving us unsupported. This is the melee curse.
Ofcourse me and my pt is the first to get focused since we are up front in their face (closest Tab) and we have to back up. So we try to back up.
The thief stealths and de-aggros the enemy zerg then blinks away with shortbow.
The mesmer switches place with clone then stealths and hes gone from enemy aggro.
The guardian clenses all the roots stuns and what not starts moving but is still everyones target since he is so freakin visible. Look for a mob, no mob around. While im cleansing the debuffs from me i try to snowleopard it gets interuppted cause of long cast. I’ve also tested renewed focus and tomes here and mercyfull intervention even lol but nope again and again im crippled, imobilzed pinned down. No rune effect is effective enough to have helped me out of that “stunlock” No mather what i do i cant lose target. I spamm all my blinds but its not enough. Soon im dead.
I see my friends the thief and mesmer are already 1200+ range away. My side is now badly damaged and moving more and more back, Then i see if theres a chance to get ressed for a few sec and confirm and go repair and get back with the group that got away.

^this is what im talkjng about,
not 1v1s (wich are in guardians favor most of the time and maybe this is why ppl say we op lol)
not 1v50
not about the good things.
Im bringing up this thing that iv noticed we lack and am here tellin you to be aware of it. You will be in these similar situations form time to time and remember if you were on another class you would not have died then and there.

Only guys that get it somewhat is Icarius and Icc lol. I like your agressive approach Icc and i did love full on dmg of guardians with teh correct items altho its sad we cant get away as easy as other classes.

The rest of you are on about 1vs1 and other stuff wich is not even connected to what i’ve said so far. Please read more carefully and slowly or dont read at all.

Where have i said i have issues of escaping in 1v1? Where have i said i want to escape from a 1v1. Hell i dont need to escape from a 1v1 cause people run from me or i die trying if the person has more skill than me. In that case im ok with death. Its anoying that ppl can easly kite away but what ever its 1v1. They run i win.

I am however not ok from dieng to mechanics and lack of escape skills in a class that obviously needs one. I expect it to have since all other classes can escape in very effective ways.

Horheristo and mrauls
why should we not be able to flee like the rest of them? Just cause we’re melee at times we are not cannon fodder! Why are you so freakin OK with death lol?? If others have it easier getting away dont you ask your self: where is my right of escape? I sure do when i see 4 members of my party get away from 10 enemies while i say “save your selfs” and hit the floor -.-

Bash
Lemme quote you:
“It honestly sounds like you expected an OP class with extreme mobility, extreme damage, and extreme survivability all in one, which just does not happen in this game.”
Ever seen what thiefs do? They are exaccly what u said. But ya thats ok. Balanced.

A melee based thief or warrior can rush in a split second and down a person fininsh and gtfo while 50 enemies around have no clue what happend. Elementalist can dance around 50 ppl and get away, Mesmer pops clones kills someone with clones and pops hide and vanishes. Warrior can carry gs or hammer and switch to range at any time.
They get 0 battle focus on them due to mechanics and do their stuff and get away. Necro has fear has 3 freakin healthbars to kite away with and huge range to not even be in the dangerzone at all. Rangers aswell can deal dmg from afar.

Guardian aint lacking in dmg or aoe cc or what not. Its godlike realy its what made me fall in love with the class.
It lacks range and a panic button while every other class gets that from the headstart. That is called " a lack of something that others have plenty" not “the OP is playing the class wrong” lol I want the same choices for Guardian that every other class has.

Nalar
Ya im on seafarers and u prolly saw my rage text in Map chat lol. I’ll quote what you said there to be clear: "The problem you seem to be having is not being able to get out of already lost battles and/or fighting big zergs with inferior numbers. "
This is pretty much a big problem as in these exact situations other classes around me get away. Even killin 2-3 and then poof gone. While my choice is either stand back and watch and support or go in push then say goodnight. See the problem? Fair? I think not.
I live the push when a team is sufficient enough to support my push and follow but since the majority is ranged classes they just stand there and watch me burn. Thank god seafarers so organized and ballsy i can expect backup more than any other server i’ve been on.

I dont think ill be dissapointed playing other classes cause iv played other classes and seen other classes be played this way. Im not makin stuff up i’ve witnessed these situations on numerous occasions. Im not theorycrafting i know how this stuff works since iv tested it on friends accounts.

Oh and iv played a lvl 80 ele with the right setup and its a mile different in survivability than a guardian. Same stats, better range and unstopable movement. Also played thief and warrior but didnt like the style, loved the survivability tho.

Why are you making me repeat my self? You seem to be missing my point completely or are inexperienced with situations iv been in. Or my walls of text are too big and not clear enough and i lack words to explain all iv been through.

There is no gear or stats or build to post. Iv spent over 100g++ (hell if not 200g now i think about it wich is sad) with every type of gear for a good period of time. As in i have owned every heavy armor and trinkets you can equip as a guardian with every rune and sigil known to man. With every posible combo of stats from gear and traits and skills and weapons. Nothing can mimic other classes survival skills.

Iv had 2500-3500 armor, 11-25k hp, 2k to 4500 attack, 4% to 100+% crit rate, 0 to 120% crit dmg, from 0 to up to 2000 condition dmg in various mixes or all out on one stat. As in full knights or a mix of knights valkirie or a mix of bezerker valkierie and so on. Prolly burned 10 gold just reseting my traits lol. Iv also tested every food thats worth testing. Even the 100% downstate food thinkin well maybe this will help since i know ill be downed haha.

Iv seen and tested every posible mix but no nothin gives me escape.

I’v had good results with valkirie for semi tanky good dmg, i’v had good resaults with power toughness vit sets super tank but lower dmg. Iv had best experience with rune of melandru and rune of hoelbrak for 20 to 25% less condition duration and -40% condition duration food so i dont get immobilized for 5-10 seconds when cd’s are all on. Rune of earth was also pretty nice too.

After all the playstyles iv come to the conclusion we lack hp wich got nerfed from what it was originally planed and we lack a blink or a teleport that doesnt require a target.

Both of these “fixes” or “un-nerfs” would make me not be here regretting wasting time on this class and instead getting the hell out of danger like all other classes. I’v witnessed these situations too many times where my friends or other ppl would get away and i always die cause of my battle presence as a guardian.

My message to all guardians is i do love this class to death as it shines in allot of parts of the game but be ready to die allot more than everyone else no mather what you try your death statistic will be high. I dont care bout your skill lvl you cant fight game mechanics.

Its just a heads up to new or current guardians. Something to think about. So yea i thought it shud be in the Guardian forum.

And yea u’re right there is no advice to hear. I’v tested everything like i said. I just cant mimic survivability of the majority of classes no mather what i tried. I based my expectations on the “no holy trinity” as in all classes can perform same but i guess it aint so. You say its allot stricter for us. Why guardian of all the classes -.-

Ofcourse iv fought an army with an army on my side. T1 and T2 are liek that. I can roam in a group too. Same end if teh kitten hits teh fan.

Are you telling me i should settle for mediocrity and pray for luck most of the time cause of a class choice in a game that states it shud be even? How bout i tell you we are overnerfed in wvwvw. Theres proof to this statement as sword flashing blade like i said had ground target before and we had more base hp.
This is why ppl complain bout warriors and thiefs. They havent done a thing to their survivability since beta. This is why i hear daily that D/D elementalist is teh only way to play the class. Cause it can survive!

Here ill quote a dude from another thread since i tend to rant and do walls of texts. He put it very shortly and to the point. Took me 4 months to accept this fact:

“Here is the root of all issues w/ Guardian:
- You have to spec 0/0/30/15/0 for any kind of survivability.
Reason being, Survivability is our ‘Escape’: A poor one at that becasue the reality is it just prolongs death unless you’re fighting near a keep/tower to run into.
The point is this: Other classes inherently have escape mechinicsm in thier weapon skills or attached to thier weapon skills.
This could be in the form of Stealth, Blinks, Slows/Roots/Imob, Charges, Invulnerables etc.
The key to these is the majority of other classes ~do not have to have an enemy targeted to use this abilities~.
You truely need to be the Agressor with the Guardian. Even with the Scepter (which is bad, but not as bad when you start using in within 600r), you need to be in thier face, not at 900+.
The class does not do good/great (it does ok, i guess) with Full Zerker Gear/Jewelry and any for of x/x/0/0/x build. Glass Cannon build = Dead on Sight. There is ZERO escaping and outside of killing all.”

StugLyfe.2134:

LordGustoff.3752:

BladeBraverBureba.1052:

LordGustoff.3752:

Personally, as a Guardian I only have trouble escaping if I am outplayed.
I run Scepter and Hammer, don’t usually switch to anything else, ever.

H3 has a bind, though you need to be facing your enemy to use it. It’s helpful if you can see the need to escape early.
H5 is a wall that your enemies will have to run around if they want to chase you.
Scepter 3 is a bind that you can cast on the move as long as you have line of sight. I can’t count the number of times I have use auto target while trucking away from a group and used Scepter 3 on an invader that I can’t even see on my screen.
Scepter 4 is a blind, can’t remember if I am able to cast this behind me like S3, but a miss is a miss.

This is where things get fun, if you have scepter you have 5-6 aegises at your disposal. Your virtue of courage passive blocks one attack. Pop S5, blocks the next three incoming attacks (within the time limit of course). “Retreat” ulility skill gives you another Aegis plus a speed boost. Finally you have the virtue active which blocks ANOTHER attack. Dont’ forget the Elite “renewed focus” which grants you 3 seconds of invulerability on the move, and recharges your virtues giving you ANOTHER 1-2 aegis.

For utility slots, slot in “Stand Your ground” which gives you five seconds of stability, and “Save Yourselves” which grants you a butt ton of boons and is also a stun breaker.

All this plus Virtue of Resolve and Signet of Resolve for healing, I personally rarely have no problem escaping.

Edit: Sure, I don’t do much damage, but the Guardian doesn’t do enough burst damage anyhow to spec for damage in WvW IMO. I usually make my focus following groups of people around, then lock down enemies and let the spike damage/DPSers take them down.

Scepter has no 4 and 5. What offhand are you using?

Whoops, I am using a Focus for my offhand. Better go fix that.

If it’s blind like he states he’s using scepter/focus lol no wonder he is having issues. This isn’t a class issues it’s a player skill/knowledge issue. I am going to just say now if you had a hard time with Guardian you will fail much harder at Elementist or just end up being a Staff ele, which is fine but don’t say it’s not a skill/knowledge issue when it obviously is.

Its not me saying that. Reread thread please. Oh and fyi im survining way better on a lvl 14 ele now in situations where i would hit the floor on guardian lol.

I dont know where people are getting this myth that guardian is sturdy tanky blabla lol. I can make any class in gw2 a tier or two above our survivabilty. Maybe its cause we are forced to build survivability and cant enjoy a full dps build like many other classes. Try beserker set on a guardian and someone else and youll see a difference instantly. We are just forced to compensate with gear and traits for the lack of escape. So we can live a sec longer and maybe just maybe get away. Well maybe doesnt count.
There is not a single skill in the guardian arsenal that can compare to clones, hide, ride lightning, mist form, groundtarget teleport, real damage imunity, dashing, triple health bars, and the simplest of all: real range weapons so u aint upfront first to be targeted.

CRabbit:
Tome of courage? lol does it make u immune to conditions and stunns? No. I tested it a while ago and no it doesnt make escaping any easier. We can heal all we want it just prolongs death nothing else.

Christos de Soufre:
Dont have to even be inside a group. Once targeted we have the hardest time of gettin the hell off their menu unlike mesmer or thief who can just remove that aggro.

Phoebe Ascension:
We can cure all those conditons all day long. Iv used all u suggested and the conditions are just gettin reapplied. We dont have enough hp or tank to react to all that in time. I can purge everything off me with shout and then what. Iv made it a few more meters but everythings on cd.

cannons:
Totaly agree it might be the best thing lol altho i havent done it yet xD

Archer:
Its not the teams fault the game mechanics allow most of them to gtfo while we are deprived of that.
Once ppl start backing off which is a human reaction to danger their focus is off the pushing forward and that means dead guardian since we cant retreat as well.
I dont fail to escape once i manage to transform to snowleopard and hide. Once im stealth im 1600 range away and this clearly shows we lack those skills race wise and class wise too since only norn has it. But since it has a cast time it gets interupted most of teh time while everyone is smackin me so i go down.

StugLyfe
That video doesnt show me anything lol sorry man. You fought a ranger whos in as bad shape as we are in the development when it comes to escape. You fought an elementalist who could have at any time kited you with his skills but chose to stay and fight. Most of them didnt wanna run but had a choice numerous times. I could go on disecting your video and i honestly dont see anything impressive in it. You even died to a zerg while some other class would get away wich just proves my point more. Nice music tho I’ve achived crazier stuff than your whole video (downed 5 ppl at once, broke a 50man zerg alone multiple times and lived and so on) but it doesnt cut it in the long run. Mechanics>me

One video can not picture a solution to what iv experienced in 4 months. I leveld the guardian in wvwvw from 20 to 80 for peets sake. I’v got close to 9k kills playin 2-3 hours a day and been in t1 and t2 servers since release. Its not some low population low skill pve servers we talkin bout here. In the end i got fed up of dieing and watchin others escape easly cause some developer decided we shud be like a turtle. I felt like if i was on a different class i would not now be on teh floor. I’v played my friends thief, elementalist and warrior to know what they are capable of. Unbelievably easy to survive situations where a guardian is doomed. I suggest you either watch or try out other classes in wvwv and see whats up.

You can rush in melee and swing your sword and hammer sure but its as long as your team is backin u up. I’v moved a 50v50 range standoff numerous times by porting into 50 enemies and if my side was observant its a wipe for the enemy. If they miss the que you gotta gtfo and most of the time you cant.

Unless your team is pushing with you and has the upper hand, if they turn around take a few steps back or start running you’re pretty much doomed. Very rarely can you get away like the rest. Guardian has very little if no escape methods like other classes.

So if diengs your problem i suggest use staff or scepter to support in the back.

Silentstorm.7531:

Hmm retreat and purging flames has never failed me. As far as distance you have judges intervention that can warp onto ledges lol….Not to mention the leap from great sword. And if distance is still a issue go sword and shield and use the swords dash that can also teleport. You can also negate like 10 straight attacks with guardian elite combos.

I said i tried everything possible! Every skill available to guardian.
You dont think i tried the most obvious methods lol? If it worked so well i wouldnt be here writing this.

What good is retreat and purging flames when conditions are reapplied within seconds? So i get rooted or imobilized or stunned. I clean all that and then what? It will get applied again within a second! Im not a thief or mesmer to remove focus from me or have a fast gtfo skill like ele. I even had -65% less condition duration on me to take a chunk off of those conditions that imobilize you after purging fails. Helps a few more seconds but its not enough im still last in line of escape and first to die to 5 ppl. While i clearly see in the distance my sides eles, thiefs mesmers warriors and so on gettin the hell out!

Judges intervention needs a target. By the time you turn cam and select a target you are dead. There isnt always a mob available. Its not stealth or clones dude. Its not dash with gs while beeing imune to dmg.

Leap from greatsword is 600 range lol. Theres 1200 range skills with imobilze effects. Yep leap is pro.

Flashing blade also needs a target. Its a worse version of JI. The problem is both skills need a target. It didnt need one in betas and i cant for teh love of god figure out why it was changed.

Negating attacks with Renevable Focus will not get me farther than 5 steps. So i live 5 more sec if traited lol pro escape im still visible targeted and ppl reaply stuns roots and what not on me.

Any more suggestions?

This is a heads up to anyone startin a guardian for WvWvW or currently playing one. I hope u get good advice from this thread before u dedicate your self to this class. Be ready to die first and have the lowest chance of survival than almost any class. Your dmg will never be too low your support is awsome but u cant run away. EVER! Yes im beeing dramatic but yes most of the time u’ll die and unless u can accept this (i cant) try a different class.

So after playing guardian since release and spending 100+ gold on different setups trying to find a working build i have decided to shelve it and wait for change if it ever happens. Im also willing to bet theres a “most death in wvwvw” statistic for classes and it has a guardian at the top lol.

What made me do it after 4 months? The lack of stuff other almost every other class has: ESCAPE SKILLS!!!

I’v rolled in full knights, beserkers, power toughness vit, cleric, carrion, vit healing condition dmg, tried mixing this and that, all possible traits, iv had up to 3.5k armor without protection up. 3k armor and 20k hp! -65% condition duration, every rune and sigil in game tested like earths speed inflitration, toughness based vit based u name it. Beeing melee with meditations or AH healing, staying at staff or scepter range. I was even norn and used snowleopard to try my luck and get away sometimes. Spammed sanctuary and wall of reflection. Didnt help. Nothing helped! I was always on the ground watching my team run away if needed.

I could not get away to save my life with any of that in WvWvW.

Heres some situations.

Solo:
if i dont manage to kill fast enough person just gets away. Kites me to their sz or tower lol. I rarely lost 1vs1 unless i was fighting a class with quickness. Wich shud be deleted or given to every class cuz its way too imba.

Duo:
If the other person is not a guardian they will get away once i hit the floor.

5man group with various classes:
Me always first target and first to die. Why? Im always present there to be targeted. Once i go melee to dps im the closest target. Im always visible i dont have hide or range or clones or pets or whatever. Once focused i just melt. No mather how much tank i had on. Every other class i had with me escapes even if they’re in full beserker. You prolly know by now how other classes escape and kite so i wont go into that. Just to let u know as a guardian u cant. So be ready to tell your friends: “Save your selfs” allot! lol

20vs20 or any number:
Same here. If the enemy manages to break us and rush us im dead. The rest flee easly. Eles ride the lightning, thiefs hide, mesmers hide and distract, warriors pop imunity and just dash away… and so on. Us guardians? on the floor. “Save your selfs”

50+vs any number:
Same thing. Dead guardian. Other classes weeee gone. “Save your selfs”

Now why is it like this? We got overnerfed in wvwvw. Prolly cause of sPvP in the betas.
Our health was higher dunno how much higher then but people complained and we got lowest hp nerf from what i read. A melee class with a caster hp!!

Flashing blade didnt need target in beta. It was ground target. This can help alooot to get away. Just look at eles teleport and thiefs shortbow.
We need a dash skill or a ground target skill that ports us to get some distance like most classes can. Or hell give us a short stealth with looooong cd. Just somethin to help us escape liek everyone else. Otherwise we will remain repair paying meatshields.

There is no doubt in my mind i’ve tried enough and after so much time and practice and money im done. Please dont bring player skill up cause theres plenty. I know this class inside out after 4 months.

Now im off to make an elementalist that tanks better, gets away better, has better support, better dodge, 3 skills to gain distance, 98%!!!! imunity to chilled, immobilize and cripple. Does same dmg but more range. Wish i did it from the start before burning time and money.

Thanks for reading ^^

You are right to feel we havent enough armor. I found out no mather how much i put into toughness the rewards were always too little to feel any tankier at all. Iv tested builds with between 2700 as lowest and 3400 as highest armor. I can honestly say i did not feel any difference in my sturdiness. Unless protection was up i was going down as fast as anyone else. Once the conditions stack up on you and even after u remove them they get reapplied ur goin down from one root stunn or chain cripples. Sure the big nukes felt a little less but they were still fast and deadly and enough to down me.

So i said to my self ok toughness aint worth it. Lets try focus on vit instead. So i get full on valkirie set and vit food and now im at 22k hp and 2400 armor. I can tell you i live longer i get out o tricky situations allot easier and im 90% less on the floor than before. I keep protection up as much as i can in fights with 6 sec from virtue of courage and save your selfs 11sec and thats enough source of tankiness.

Wich tells me guardians hp got overnerfed from beta. I hear we had more hp back then.

I dont think we are offtopic at all since im trying to say and connect the lack of viable builds freedom to lack of escape mechanics. Beeing forced to pick survival traits and gear means less variety. Imagine how much more flexible you could be without the need to focus on surviving through gear and traits but instead surviving through some mechanic like higher hp or some form of diverting or losing focus like with stealth or acually beeing able to leap 1200 to a safer distance of your choice when u need to.

There’s too much “forced” even while havin allot of “flexible” when it comes to guardian imo. Even in larger group the mentioned classes can escape easly except the guardian unless he stelths or diverts the focus somehow by luck. Other clases have natural skills or a huge health pool to get away. We dont. Not even 45% dmg drop with 3k armor saves me from 10 second imobilze, 10 second cripple and so on large group small group or seige or whatever. I’v experienced the same lack of escape in all www situations. I have on so many ocassions had to say on teamspeak “get the hell out i cant im rooted and all on cd”. Way too many times.

Some classes do have it allot easier than others. Ill try and put them in a ladder based on escape survivabilty. Remember alos that if made norn all of these classes can have an elite skill with stealth and dash to add to their escape:

Thief (stelth, shortbow)
Mesmer (stelth, clones diversion, portal)
Warrior (high swiftness up time, high hp and armor, 0 dmg skill and blocks and dashing)
Elementalist (earth skills for knockbacks, air skills like ride lighting and knockback, pick a spot teleport skil, not to mention the ability to have 98% less duration from conditions like imobilize chill and cripple if setup right-.-)
Engineer (not so fermiliar to me but i read they got stealth)
Ranger (transfer dmg to pet and start runnin lol)
Guardian (stealth if norn, 3 second immunity, one 600 dash, 3 teleports all need a target)

Dont even get me started on if the class is a mini asura xD. “is that a person or a pet O.o” This also could add to limitations in builds and push a norn giant or somethin big like charr to go more defensive than offensive all the time. So anoying with mini asuras i dont understand what anet was thinkin really. K this was a bit off topic

I find all other classes escape techniques better than guardians. I still will play the class as i love it for what it is even now but theres no need to not state an opinion Just cause we are “fine” doesnt mean we shudnt ask to be improved in areas other classes are

The build difference is indeed screwing with the data. If the target is burning then Radiant Power in Radiance 25 will boost dmg by base 10% and if crit happens its a 15% boost in crit dmg. All weapons benefit from this and it can happen in the 1-2 second burn. Fiery wrath will also do this if traited.
You would have to dodge after every hit or two with hammer and staff to get 10% dmg boost from Honor 25 xD Besides no ones saying Hammer and staff should be built 30/30 valor honorr to be effective weapons. Its about choice: more hp or more crit rate and dmg

I suggest imho same traits but pick traits that dont boost dmg to certain weapons and instead boost overall dmg. Like dont pick 5% dmg boost to GS or Sword and pick a global boost like Radiant power or Fiery Wrath and keep it that way with different weapons for more conclusive data I dont find 2Handed Mastery a must trait with 2handed weapons since autoattack on a boss target will fill in dmg gaps. In PVP ppl dont have so much hp when u focus so DPS isnt really a factor but big burst rotation is.

Leonard gets what i mean and heres my view on your posts Fabsm and i get what you are saying but dont agree

We are just a class liek every other in gw2 with same rights and we deserve same things or close to it in some way or another. We dont need stelth or anythin but we dont need to be a dedicated repair paying cannonfodder either. 1 man left to die while 4 easly get away. This is a game not some action drama movie xD
No mather how you look at it escape is a feature guardian lacks in 90% of its current form.

Its not right that guardian dies first or last and has to be left behind only to respawn pay repairs and run back to his group that got away due to mechanics of the game and not the player skill lvl.
Also by trying to avoid death just to last in the battle we are forced to focus on tanking waaay too much to cover the lack of stats and escape mechanics. While others go full on dps (beserker for ex) we cant do that. Go full beserk with a group of 5vs5 and you will 100% be dead first while the thief will 2-3 shot a target and stealth, mesmer wont get focused cause theres clones runnin around confusing ppl, elementalist will out tank you and outdmg you (seen elementalists in tier1 screw around with 20 ppl for long time and get away lol). Warrior will kill 2 ppl with his dps then tank 3 with his 25k+ hp and 3k armor then buff dmg imunity and dash away. Iv seen all this happen on daily bases around me. Ppl with full on dps 11-25k hp depending on class get away while i “THE TANK” am not tanking enough acually and cant follow to retreat lol. When i focus on “guarding” i get even more aggro cause of flashy skills and ppl go “oh theres the guardian get him”. So even when we go tank mode we aint tanky enough or surviving long enough. So why go tank in the end? Only way to be present in the battle really. Cant dps without tanking but die with wich ever eventually. Lesser of two evils i guess. Still havin fun tho no mather what thanks to occasional wall of reflection to cover my kitten first then snowleopard stealth escape.

I can play almost any other class the way i play guardian with crazy aoe dmg and controls and knockbacks and what not. If i decide not to use stealth or clones or ride lightning or rush away with 5 second 0 dmg or mist form or whatever i will end up in the same situation as u describe guardian: last man standing then dead man on the floor. Waving to your party from the floor while they dissapear to refresh health and engage again pretty dam soon. Hero by choice? No, hero by must. Guardian does really remind me of action drama movies.

Its not right by any game design we shud die first due to higher aggro cause of our battlefield presence wich is not due to our dmg or threatlevel. Any class can be and is a threat some even higher than guardians. We are just there like everyone else pulling and pushing and then kitten hits the fan ppl die but we are forced to it due to no escape.

When i play a guardian i am always on the front line or midrange/between or in the center of aggro, splitting ppl/zergs up with my utilities. Iv done such crazy stuff u wouldnt belive cause guardian is awesome front line pusher. Our Aoe dmg is just insane. Iv managed to combo 12k+ dmg aoe in 2-3 seconds just with focus shield of wrath 6-7k crits and hammer mighty blow 5k+ crits. GS is also crazy. I basicly love every weapon guardian has and switch between constantly cause i cant decide wich is better xD So i know all about where we shine
Take this as somethin of a tip to test out on guardian. I dont use condition removers as i find them pointless with the current condition system. It just reapplies way too constantly and stacks too long really. I hate beeing imobilized for 10 seconds. So after extensive use of them i dumped the whole clense conditions skills and am now using rune of melandru and -40% condition duration 70vit food for a total -65% condition duration wich i can testify helps a toooon more than just removing conditions once or twice only to have them reapplied 1 second later. Hell even arrowcart spammage isnt bothering me when i use this.

Judges intervention and Flashing blade both require a target. They didnt need one in beta from what iv read on forum. Maybe thats why we lack escape. I dunno. Prolly revert it back if posiblle so we can turn cam and port 1200+ range like any other class without lookin for a rabbit. Most of the time theres just no chance to do this. I dont want luck on my side to hope to accomplish somethin.

Tested mecrifull intervention and its still the same. I get ported to no where i want to be 99.999% of the time i can tell you that.

Imagine how much more configurations in gear and traits you could use with a decent escape mechanic. I can be like a thief for 10 seconds with full beserker dps gear and dps traits and pop snow leopard to get away…..fun buuuut 240 sec cd -.- and norn based.

TLDR: we lack escape mechanics and good range dps so we are stuck with just a few traits and items to hang in there and acomplish something.

Sorry for the wall of text but its hard to explain in a shorter manner.
Have to agree with OP that we lack a variety in builds but its not cause of traits. This is my humble opinion and ill explain why i think so. Ill speak mostly based on my www experience.

Many if not most other classes can go easy on the vitality and toughness and do full damage setups due to being able to either already having a high base hp or having good range or some form of escape. The guardian lacks both range, base vitality and escape from the start and when u try to fix it with items and traits you really feel locked to only a few working builds.

We are pushed into 30 valor and 5 virtues cause of valor that gives us 2 sources of extra heals at grandmaster and since we have such low hp base its a must. Not to mention 30% extra crit dmg that i always miss if i try somethin else or the extra 4-5% crit rate from toughness.
Virtues give an extra 5 sec of protection so we dont always have to have a slot for a protection applying skill and so this always feel like a must have.

Gearwise i always end up with tanky gear due to lack of hp vs conditions and toughness beeing so mediocre in acually tanking all those high nukes and random aoe that you eventually end up around with. Need to increase toughness by 500+ wich still feels like 10% less dmg. Really feels like im locked up with certain stuff. If i try anythin else but 18k+ hp and 3k armor i die too fast due to this high presence in battle and high aggro. Im always the first target no mather what.

I have all posible exotic sets (burned a ton of gold) and tested all runes and i can never ever go full beserker or rampager like many can due to their escape mechanics or nice range skills. Pisses me off when i see my dmg output with beserker gear beeing on par with my thief friend or warrior friend but i lack his stealth and speed mechanics or warriors hp to get the hell away when i need to. Same with my mesmer friend and his stealth and clone swapping. My warrior friend can afford his high dmg thanks to not having to worry about boosting his hp and has two buffs that give him 9 seconds of dmg imunity and 2 dashing skills and not to mention constant uptime of swiftness from elite.

If we encounter others 4 vs 4 im always the focused one since they cant see my thief friend and cant focus on the mesmer thanks to clones. The warrior is constantly mobile thanks to swiftness and fast skills that keep him on the move. When or IF its time to run i cant cause of no escape mechanics while my friends always get away alive if they have to.
Thank god i picked norn and get snow-leopards hide skill so if i manage to live the 1 sec cast time and stealth then rush away i can live but then im stuck with 240 second cooldown. You have no idea how many times this elite skill saved my kitten I feel sorry for other non norn classes runnin guardians without this elite. If we encounter a bigger group or 4v4 again during my elite cooldown theres a big chance ill end up on the floor lol.

While we rush in to dps and control i watch the party hp bars and everyone is untouched while im the first to end up on 50% hp and then have to back off or die. If im in dps gear i dont even have time to back off cause of low hp and armor and i just melt or cant escape or divert their attention from me. Guardian gets waaay too much aggro both pve and pvp. Iv seen my friends even rush into a zerg by them selfs and finish a person alone then get away from 50 ppl. When i do that theres a big chance ill die due to no good escape mechanic. Conditions get reapplied waay too much so unless u stealth or rush from the focus ur dead. So many classes can but guardian cant.

So yeah i agree with op on lacking builds and variety and i find its not cause of traits sucking but cause of no flexiblity in gear due to low base hp and no escape mechanics.

I think maybe guardians were a tad bit overnerfed regarding hp and that some of our gap closers could use a “no target required” feature. I cud use Judges Intervention or Flashing Blade to blink away fast when i would need to without having to look for a Rabbit to target xD I read that those skills didnt need targets in betas and that we had much more hp.

I do still love the class and what its capable of and where its currently at. Once you end up locking your self to certain traits and gear and your skill is topnotch you do excel as a guardian in almost everything but range and escape