Guild Wars 2

Firebrand was superslow and had allot of support stuff on such short range it was hard to land on enemy and teammates.
Firebrand needs a: “When equiped with axe weapon gain 25% mobility passive.” Put it on Swift scolar or Imbued haste traits.

I can live with anythin else but 5 years without 25% mobility is enough. Especially how fast other classes are right now.

Experiencing the exact same thing as u Trevor. Everything u posted in this thread i’v gone through for past 3 seasons in EU. Its acually scary lol.
My mmr has not settled ever. I hit the 10 loss streak walls at 1500-1550. Once i passed into tier 2 plat 1650 and the loss streak hit me then. This usualy drops me to t3-t2 gold. I then easly climb back up with allot of wins and maybe an occasional loss here and there. I keep bouncing up and down the ladder the whole seasons 1550-1350 and end up 1550ish at end of season. The losses and causes of them always feel so forced somehow once the 10+ loss streak starts and my matches are filled with beginner level teammates while facing full meta enemy team comps and even 2x duos.

Its hard landing mantras, tomes and axe hits when almost all classes be it team mates or enemy are speeding around and away with either 25% passive mobi, superspeed, perma swiftness spam or huge gap gaining skills.
I couldn’t land the cones consistently and in a decent manner without equiping a rune with passive 25% mobi. This limits builds way too much.

Not to mention the need to kite the enemy. You put a completly teambased melee class in an arena where it cant keep up with a team, all while gettin pressured to death by insane ranged damage. It has 0 gap skills. We dont even have a decent range weapon. No, scepter wont cut it when facing snipers..

Firebrand needs a: “When equiped with axe weapon gain 25% mobility passive.” Put it on Swift scolar or Imbued haste traits.

If mantras and some tome skills are to stay as cone they need to be either the size of old staff wave 1 skill or like shield 4 is.

Bug: when using Firebrand and Zealous Scepter trait, it doesnt proc might for any weapon.

Bug: when using Firebrand Axe skill Symbol of Vengeance does not proc Symbolic Power trait.

RabbitUp.8294:

Hostility.4961:

Thats the VoJ tooltip when u spec to Firebrand. VoJ changes depending on what specializations and traits you have on. When u go DH it changes/swaps its skill tooltip from core tooltip to DH. What you see in those screenshots is Voj changed/swaped from core tooltip to Firebrand tooltip. Doesnt mean core tooltip is changed from 4sec to 1.5.

Altho that said i think we can expect some nerfs and cd’s to our burn applications now that condi firebrand is here. It is going to be a condi bursting monstrosity of a class.

The passive portion of VoJ is not affected by specializations. DH burns for 4s in pvp, it’s just that the tooltip wasn’t updated when they buffed it.

And no, it doesn’t make sense to nerf the identity of the class to ship replacement buffs behind a paywall.

We still are looking at a Firebrand F1 tooltip. Does NOT mean Core F1 is affected.

Ofcourse it makes sense to make Firebrand F1 passive last 1.5 sec if u look at the other traits and new weapon condi application. Its a mather of balance not money. FB has really good condi cover and burn applications. If you dont see this then im srry :/

Firebrand will be weaker at range and less blocks so DH is still strong there.
/edit DH also has 3 unblockable attacks and a big spike combo thats hard to avoid for most classes

We need to let go of just using core classes and tryin to make them viable.
Its the 2CORE+1ELITE specs ERA finaly! This expansion openes up crazy good build diversity. I can already see 4 incredibly strong builds for guardian in spvp all pushing for meta title. Symbolic DH, Medi DH, Quickness support FB, Condi FB and more. Firebrand farts quickness and stabilty and stun breaks and condi clenses left and right. Its gonna be an amazing teamfighter.

Thats the VoJ tooltip when u spec to Firebrand. VoJ changes depending on what specializations and traits you have on. When u go DH it changes/swaps its skill tooltip from core tooltip to DH. What you see in those screenshots is Voj changed/swaped from core tooltip to Firebrand tooltip. Doesnt mean core tooltip is changed from 4sec to 1.5.

Altho that said i think we can expect some nerfs and cd’s to our burn applications now that condi firebrand is here. It is going to be a condi bursting monstrosity of a class.

Too early to tell. Works only with gs. Gives more retaliation source and vulnerability without traits. Could be nice offensively if the enemy smacks you fast you could stack 5-10% more dmg on them. Nothing mindblowing. Not something we desperately needed. There are better runes if u want swiftness.

Yep all matches 2 stacked ranged spammers cant move just melt. Imposible to melee.
Dat 2000 extra heal tho ooooo -.-

Cant feel a kitten thing different.
Spirit weapons melt within a second and behave dumb all over the map.
Glacial Heart = useless cuz i have to remove medi fury
Renewed focus buff is negated by all the ranged dmg buffs other classes got this patch.
2000 heal and 18 sec less cd is not helpin when u gettin range and condi spammed from every direction.

Just had a few yoloq matches. The amount of ranged dmg is insane. Cant use zerker amulet anymore.

Why are you running travelers while commanding? It makes you faster than classes/builds without 25% speed boost so ppl have a harder time following you and/or catching up. You should have perma swiftness up with a zerg around u anyways.
Use either soldiers if u wanna support ppl or melandru+lemongrass if u wanna live longer.

btw
trollmode on
Oh u’re on desolation hehe. Do all your commanders run travelers cause that would explain allot :x

a sfr player
trollmode off

www hoelbrak lemongrass and swift moa feather are great alltho suuuperexpencive
spvp speed

Ok two things

Yes you need full zerker cause just pure power wont make staff hit hard. It needs a high crit rate or its just hittin 500-800 tops dependin on might stack.

You need 6 in valor for either monks focus for medi heals when u solo
or Altruistic healing in zergs so u sustain heal allot. Staff 4 is a full heal with that every 20 sec. Without those in a build you will have a really really really hard time livin in zerg clashes and 1v1s.

Staff can be used somewhat offensively but you need 2200+ power in spvp or 2500+ in www to do decent 1500-2000 dmg per swing. The orb of light can crit for 3-5k even. Point being staff is only usable offensivly in full out dmg builds.

I sometimes play full zerker dual staff in zerg v zerg just for the fun of it
Heres the zerg www build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQJAWWlsApQotCxbI8DNR8QVVAg9T8fV617wRcDA-TFiDABA8EAWU9nuUC6kyPEOEAvpLQgLAwM7PEAAB4m3MbezAn38m38m38czbezbezbWKgHWGB-w

1v1 you need to use either gs or sword/focus in addition to staff. When the enemy is close use gs or s/f and only use staff when they kite, stealth away cause staff is superclunky in close range for some reason.
Heres the roaming build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQJAWRlsApcoVDxbI8DNR8QVVAg9J+fV61/QQkDA-T1BFABC8IAQS5Xa6CaZ/BAuCAFq+zVKBDAgAczbmNvZgzbezbezbeu5Nv5Nv5NHDATA-w

I could not pick the second food cause its not added yet. Its callled Swift Moa Feather in game i think. Its the food that gives 25% mobility for 30min. You could also change the rune for traveler rune instead and use power food but i like hoelbrak for less condi on me.

Its super hard to roam with staff tho but its fun when u pull it off Ppl dont expect it to crit 2k+ per auto hehe

Harbinger.8637:

Kagamiku.9731:

Harbinger.8637:

Kagamiku.9731:

I gave you the wrong link, check again. Or you just didn’t watch the whole thing. Some is hotjoin, some is Spvp. He was taking 2v1 in both. Sometimes 3v1.

So yeah, that does take skill, and yeah zerker guardians are quite strong if you know what you’re doing.

Also, it doesn’t matter if it’s hotjoin or spvp, everyone wears the same lvl gear..

There’s a huge difference between hotjoin and teamq/soloq. Hotjoin players are generally unskilled, most of them just want to get their dailies done, or just have some fun. Playing zerker guard at higher levels of play is a lot more difficult then that video implies, you’re not going to be doing 2v1 against competent players. This is an older video of mine from the beginning of the year it’s all tpvp, and as you can tell it’s not all butterflies and sunshine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geEMtUBMHF0

I already went over that fact that at least half of the matches shown in the video I linked was either soloq or teamq. No one is going to win 1v2 or 1v3 against players of equivalent skill regardless of what class or build they’re using.. That’s not the point. The point is a zerker guardian is capable of fishing out a ton of damage and has enough utilities to stay alive while doing so. The point is that it’s a viable build and certainly not underpowered.

I’d go as far as to say that none of those clips are from tpvp, first clip is Capricorn, and there are also 8v8 matches. All the 5v5 matches could have easily been hotjoin because there are 5v5 hotjoin servers fyi. The point is linking videos like that to prove a point is useless. Anyone can go into a hotjoin match, and do what he did. However doing what he did against competent players or against higher skill players won’t happen.

Sure dps medi guard is a viable spec, however there’s a big reason why you don’t see them used in higher levels of play, the last tourney was a prefect example of this.

Ya Heavens Rage, that 3rd match EU vs NA was such an eye opener for me. Especially the devs commentary.

Its all hotjoin dude read the comments. Here some quotes/answers to ppl:

uitiuhui says:" nice video and skill use, to bad its all hotjoin again:P the skill level of hotjoin is much lower then in tourneys"

then he answers to him: " Yeah your right, I might consider doing some Solo Q videos. Considering I am top 100 EU it should team me up against some good players. But no 3v1s I can guarantee you that xD?"

Dude iv played this game long enough to spot a hotjoin highlight video.

The “Structured” in Spvp is referring to the setup system of a player vs player instance. It is a structured, ruled, setup instance u join in by choice. You dont have choice of structure or rules in other modes like www or pve. You obey the global serverside anet settings there.

Theres spvp, www, eotm, and pve. Spvp is then split into hotjoin, soloque and teamque. So ya he says spvp and its true even for hotjoin wich is a part of spvp.

I watched the whole thing and yes none of that is soloq or teamq its all hotjoin. You can tell by the way his enemys play. He knows his combos and is molesting newbies.
When i say armor i dont mean armor in connection to stats. I mean his enemy is a person wearing that "just created this toon " armor. That, even besides their reactions to his play, tells me they havent dedicated to that class at all while he is playing really well and far surpases their skill lvl. And for gods sake he killed 2 rifle warriors in starter guild armor.

Ye that hotjoin highlight video vs ppl in lvl1 gear tells me allot xD
Look at his targets man. You really think that takes skill to kill? lol
Also Dat water map at start of video <3

Equipping stances is not crucial at all. You say “need” i say “chose”. Both builds are perfectly valid and playable in the current meta its just that stances are more selfreliant.
The build is about aoe heals, fury, cc, condi clense and can play with 4 shouts and Last stand.

Why would u not use a warrior that does more dmg and cc while being supportive?
Like i said protection and aegis are overrated and guardian stability is mostly for stompin.

If being a nuisance and support is our role as a guardian then i say there are perfectly legit builds in almost all classes for that. They just get more choice we get almost none.

And yes our condi, ai and zerker choices are greatly underpowered due to lack of mechanics like disengage and so on. Compare our burst to others its lower, compare mobility its lower, compare disenagage its nonexistant and so on. No one is saying bunkering guardian is underpowered.

Kagamiku.9731:

And yet I never see anyone run a houtsheal in pvp. The damage output of a shoutheal warrior who only heals (no party wide protection or aegis or stability or anything else; save for their warhorn skill)) is so bad that it’s not worth running. You also need to grab cleansing ire in the defense line (which is a far better trait line) which leaves no investment into a damage tree.

It’s fine in wvw, but guardians still do that role better and maintain more damage while doing so.

You dont see them cause they have other more fun choices/builds so they play those. Guardian is locked into the shout bunker support role cause of lack of optimal builds elsewhere. You bring up partywide protection aegis and stability but those things are available as selfbuffs to other classes too if traited for it. Not to mention condi spam ignores protection, aegis is 1 autoattack or random aoe dmg and its gone and stability is too short to be good for anythin but a stomp.

The damage in this warrior clerics build is double if not tripple more than what a clerics guardian will do . Hammer longbow or hammer sword shield is enough sustain dmg to 1v1 someone off the point or even kill all while healing aoe 2600-3k per shouts on a 20 sec cooldown while giving ppl might and fury and clearing conditions off them. U forget warrior can maintain 20stacks might easily. In celestial amulet this build can do 1k ticks of bleed easy while shouthealing aoe for 2k without trying hard.

Again you dont see this much because hambow soldier stance build is more fun and less needy while the guardian needs at least 1 person close to feel special. Alone a bunker guardian is just like an alarm before a decap lol.

Kagamiku.9731:

It doesn’t matter which profession subforum you go to, the posters think their class is underpowered. Disgraceful…

I love playing my guardian and has done well for me in pvp/wvw and PvE. I prefer the warrior in pve, but I prefer the guardian in wvw/pvp. While It’s true the guardian has no real escapes, the object is not to run from every fight. Especially when you’re a guardian with great sustain. Play to win. If you die, so what? Respawn and nothing of value was lost. Especially when supported by teammates, the guardian will far surpass a warriors abilities. A warrior only supports himself, a guardian supports the whole team.

There are warriors who build for team support u kno. Rune of soldier clerics or celestial amulet shouts heal build is amazing on points with a team.

We are at a point in meta where u dont need a bunker guardian in a match really. Its just some ppl still like to play it even after 2 years. Too stale for me. Thank god AA open beta is comming out on the 16th for somethin fresh.

Aeolus.3615:

that teleport with heal area wasn’t like that already on the beta instead of blink to close ally??

I know from early pvp videos sword 2 blink was ground targeted 600 range. No idea on the Mercifull Intervention utility.

Kraljevo.2801:

Can you please stop posting crap about the guardian in every single post you make? Your first complaint about the sanctuary was ridiculous but now this? Are you serious?

The guardian is a very good profession and, if well played, can hold its own very well in a solo situation. Especially after the upcoming update.

Except none of what he posted is crap but pretty much facts. All of his points are valid and proven. I also dont belive the upcoming update will change a thing.

To answer the OP (this is a quote from a dev Jonathan Sharp during a championship match):
" He is A nuisance! But thats what we talked about, he’s doing all those little things you don’t really think about, he’s keeping ppl up, he’s knockin back, thats what he’s supposed to do, thats what the guardian does."

Mechanics wise u cant kill a well played dd ele.

Heh nothing changed really. Why, u ask?
1. Anet buffs other classes damage both sustain burst and condi (ranger, mesmer). These classes usually stand at 1200-1500 range and pewpew us slowly down with both power and condi dmg all while we struggle to reach them/find them.
2. Anet buffs guardian sustain a little bit. Point 1 kind of makes this point 2 pretty bland.
This would be a nice buff if other classes were left as they were so u notice our improvement but i don’t think we will notice a danm thing since it all evens out to close to same as it was before if not worse when u think of all the extra burst and condi spam we will feel.

Hurry up Trion pls

So i was watching NA vs EU last 3rd match in the Allstars Tourny. Here’s a link:
http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/b/558734864

To quote Jonathan Sharp at about 1:11:48 talking about Tage who’s prolly the best EU bunker guardian: " He is A nuisance! But thats what we talked about, he’s doing all those little things you don’t really think about, he’s keeping ppl up, he’s knockin back, thats what he’s supposed to do, thats what the guardian does." Apparently we are the nuisance class lol.

What other builds besides the " bunker shout cleric " could take enough pressure while being this nuisance the devs want us to be?

I wanna be optimal but i dont like shouts or being forced that much into current meta. Also i dont like “doin the little things”. This class is feeling so pale lately and every test at being effective within this meta has set me back in some way. Feels always im lackin somethin no mather whatever other build i try and that i would be more effective trying the same thing with another class. Not to mention how ppl almost always will blame the guardian if a match is lost cause we didnt bunker dat mid. The class just feels so immensely locked into that one build.

Jonathan Sharp got me thinking of how much completely locked are these devs on us playing the kitten bunker role only. It seems they find it to be the most effective and only spot we can be at in that environment that they base their vision of balance around. The meta pretty much is set onto us being the nurse/tank mode as the only effective spot/choice. While most other classes are fully opened to playing some hybrid or condi, or burst or even outtank us with focused bunker specs it feels like the guardian is left with the choice of pickin up the scrubs and leftover of one spec only that is the bunker nurse.

It almost makes me wish for a nice shave/nerf on our bunker build to open up more chance for buffs of other things but that might leave the burst builds completely vulnerable to everything since we lack mechanics like stealth and disengage.

What worries me more is the upcoming changes to mesmers and rangers. They are an amazing 1v1 class and with the range dmg advantage that they classwise have they put allot of pressure on us while we play bunker on nodes and also even in zerker modes. Its a well deserved buff for ranger dont get me wrong, but offtopic a bit the mesmer one was completly uncalled for. We wont be able clense that much torment and confusion and that combo means “dont move, dont use skills or wither within seconds”. How this type of play is good for the game is beyond me.

From what i read our Skillbar is due this friday and it will prolly make it or break it for me as a guardian in this stale 2 year drought of versatility. Lord knows what buffs necros will get but im expecting a large amount of mediocrity that is the guardian buff.

/end of rant

Thanks for reading my thoughts and hopefully u can give advice on some more nuisance builds

I like the Mercifull Intervention change idea more but i would settle with the old sword to come back even. Sword had ground targeting from the start back in 2011. Heres a video with ground targeting at 0:10
http://youtu.be/hThG0iQlUJY?t=10s

Dunno why they changed it since its just 600 range but would help atleast a little comboed with gs3.

No amount of toughness or healing power will save you from a bad position. So use whatever u like (zerker=big dmg numbers, cleric=more heals and so on) but give time to your self to learn your guardians movement and build and utilities.

I’v played with every stat combo possible just fine in zergs. www on seafarers rest btw. Gear dont mather and none of them will carry you.
Skill mathers and that comes only with time, smart commander and great positioning. That and a gigantic set of balls on your side :P Do not backpedal in a zerg, stick to commander and always move forward and u could attack them naked.

If u wanna be supportive: its in your utilities runes sigils food and skill build.
Use sigil of restoration and sigil of stamina on your staff = never die.

Ofcourse i dont bunker up to facetank hehe i end up with that state cause i build support cleric stat shouts heal on my warrior for when i run with zerg or just fool around with stats (got like 20-30 armor sets lol). I would trate power vit healin power if it was up to me.
Was just telling the OP that even though toughness/armor seems like a “facetank” stat its not made that way and it doesnt work that way and in my experience doesnt work at all really unless i actively mitigate dmg just liek u say too.

My gripe is really that tougness doesnt help like at all currently not even a little. Its got too much against it after all these patches. Power hits it direcly, condi dmg bypasses it and ends up beeing bursty lol, dmg % boosts are plently, crit rate and crit damage is skyhigh. Its all designed to bypass/crush 1 poor stat that is toughness lol.
Its all about cd managment, class choice and fast kills or a ton of constant condi dumps untill ppl cant remove them in 1v1s.

Anyways workin on Zealots for warrior now i like it allot. Dps + nice aoe heals. If my ele or guardian didnt have 11k hp i would use zealots on it too.

Right now it doesnt mather if u have 2200 armor or 4000 armor in www. I got hit by 9500 backstab yesterday on my bunker regen warrior with 3500 armor. Been hit and bursted down even on my guardian with 4k armor + protection + signet. Damage mitigation is almost nonexistant unless u stealth block or evade, which are mechanics.

Most classes dont have aegis blocks protection boon or signets with 10% dmg reduction (doesnt help much either btw since traits with % dmg, debuffs, condis and so on bypass it in an instant) which helps a little temporarily against burst.

BUT BURST WILL ALWAYS REASULT IN BURST no mather what u do. The only answer to burst right now IS NOT through armor/toughness dmg mitigation but through class mechanics like block stealth evade while beeing able to kill as fast so zerker is a must.
IF u dont use that or its all on cd = give up, respawn or uninstall or come here and post about it :P

IF anet want to fix this they would increase the value of toughness vs power or add more dmg% drop mechanics, skills but its been 2 years now and stuff hasnt changed at all even after countless nerfs to skills. The upcoming global nerf to dmg wont change much really burst will keep bursting.

If you aint got a ranged condi weapon and high base vitality you’re gonna have a bad time.

Not shelved mine yet but i can say it aint fun to play it and i feel ya mate.

Harbinger.8637:

Well I recorded a bit of WvW over the weekend, since I haven’t made a video in forever. First couple of clips is small scale stuff, with hawt zerg action later. I’ll try to do a tpvp one also this month.

Ill be honest mate that video is nothin impressive. DIssorganized fights and 80% of time i just saw u hittin downd targets. Also the “hawy zerg action”? Didnt see any really. What tier is your server?

Amins.3710:

Hostility.4961:

u are fighting “Dungeon Masters” and its making you think all is ok.

There are dungeons in this game?

I hear theres somethin called PVE and there can be found this dungeon thingie
but i get a sudden diarrhea attack when someone mentions it so i cant find it :P brb *unzips

tanshiniza.8629:

Hunter.4783:

That’s easy, every single decent guardian solo spec has been butchered either directly (healway) or indirectly through buffing every single class but us (and eles)

We can’t chase, we can’t run away, we can’t really take on most other roamer classes:

Thiefs own us 1v1…atleast until S/D gets looked at. And a thief can always run when taken low
Warriors are simply superior to guards in EVERY aspect now, they have better chasing power and best mobility in game, on top of it all
Necros slaughter us
The occasional condi tank mes also owns us

….
Need I go on? Oh ya, we can kill the occasional nub ranger or staff ele though….if they don’t make it to a tower or camp in the next 2 min.

Thieves are predictable and I just plan to have a counter in place for when they actually go in for the attack. D/D thieves aren’t a problem unless they catch you unaware cause you’re distracted fighting something else for example and when it comes to S/D keep applying the pressure don’t let him have a moment to breath.

Still haven’t lost a 1vs1 fight with a Warrior to date. Predictable and simple enough to counter. The new running away business can get you down but just take it as a win and find something else.

Necro’s I usually kill them before they can really do anything and the moment they do the condition spam I remove them and they’re left with not much else for a time. Just keep hounding them and they’ll drop.

Mesmers are that class that in 1v1 are pretty darn good but that’s all they got going for them. In group play etc all they offer is a few extra targets and some invisibility but hopefully that’ll be balanced out. Again when fighting them don’t let them breath since I see far too many people running around being torn to shreds by illusions instead of chasing down the real one constantly.

Lol yep all of the other classes and all other guardians in here suck and you are the only one playin it right.

Nothing is wrong guys move along

*Sarcasm off
Dude seriosly u are fighting “Dungeon Masters” and its making you think all is ok.

Guardian really needs some attention regarding hp and avoidance of dmg in general in this spamfest condi meta. We are always in the middle of everyones target area and now that ppl can just rangedump condis at this rate and kite us to death we cant retaliate in any way really. Other classes have amazing mechanics to avoid focus (stealth, clones and so on) we dont really. All our movement is towards the target in your face HEY LOOK AT ME type.

SO why warrior as a choice over guardian? Well warriors got a what 7500 hp buffer to take many stacks and ignore them. Also 8 sec imune to condi spam, numerous blocks of dmg, enormous amount of retaliating through hard and soft cc (hammer, shield mace). Warrior can afford leaving the point for a sec or two to put some serious hurt and cc on the enemy. The longbow is just an amazing condi weapon. Traited longbow is just devastating. Warriors passive regen is always on while Guardians is not so passive (only f2 if u dont touch it and even then its 4 times less than warriors or more) since u have to dodge for it, have allies around for it, meditations wont cut it (2000 hp heal on a 16 sec cd is what 125 per sec and can be interupted) its allot more active regen and its hard to achieve when u get condidumped and ccd all over the place. So sustain and dmg wise warrior is imho in a much better place than guardian now.

Yesterday I wanted to see how long it takes to burn me down while playin guardian if i only care about condis in spvp so i played a 0 30 5 30 0 build. Signet mastery so signet cures 2 every 10 sec and shouts cure condi since its bugged and shouts remove 2. Also 5 in valor for 10 sec condi cure. FOr trinket i went with highest HP knights and coupled with 30 honor, soldier rune this gave me a whoopin 25k hp. So i can u kno chew the conditions. Armor was at 2400 so i was really sqwishy to burst dmg. My attack dmg was bad to solid depending what i hit.
This build cures:
3 condi every 10 sec automaticly
3 condis removed 1 to boon shout Syg every 24 sec
3 condis removed 1 to boon shout Htl every 28 sec
full removal/all to boon every 60 sec
1 condi removed from sigil (60% on crit chance) probably every 10ish sec

Was doin ok in 1v1s really the high hp helpin and with a high uptime on protection i didnt mind the low armor.

And then i went mid skyhammer with another guardian by me. Dunno what he ran for build but he looked higher rank than me so prolly hella more experienced too.

Suddenly skyhammer goes to enemy and he starts rainin on us and then boom 2 necros get on us too and start spammin aoe on point. We got hit once by skyhammer and rest i dodged and avoided the big red circle. Kept trying to keep up with condi spam and cap the point but we got eventualy destroyed down once most of the stuff was on cd. We both died same time even.
So i open up the dmg log. Bleeds 20k+ dmg in 20ish seconds…….skyhammer 5k in 20sec -.-. The condi spam outdamaged a real freakin cannon and got me killed eventualy -.-
I had all the arsenal to try and handle the condi dumps and yet it didnt help me live long enough. It also made my dmg too low to be a threat so no scarefactor. Also i felt really bad for every enemy guardian i killed yesterday lol.

So yah pick warrior at the moment.

Relentliss.2170:

After committing to fully playing a warrior in SPVP for a bit, I agree with the OP’s post.

Pretty much the same here. If im not on warrior ENJOYING spvp im on guardian TRYING to figure out whats wrong and how to patch it up -.-
The fixing effort itself = guardian gameplay at the moment since so many outbunker, outsustain (things we were good at) us its not funny any more. Guardian in my humble opinion has lost its focus and ALL we got left is aoe stability really and eating up other ppls conditions. Beeing nurses pretty much. I accepted the deal with no escape mechanics long time ago (hold W key and keep on truckin), but with every patch the things that felt guardian like or thakittens us that need them they were brought on to other classes in some way or the other so that special feeling just faded more and more.

If the argument is that warrior lacks protection well on warrior protection can be obtained from runes + boon duration. Its semi efficient but with warriors sustain + high hp from the get go random protection is just icing on the cake.
I like to run 30 in tactics and healing banner and then either:
rune of grove+rune of earth so i get 70% protection duration boost and 25% chance for a 7 second protection on a 30 sec cd (might as well be 100% chance with all the aoe spam)
or rune of lyssa for a 6 sec all boons on a 60 sec cd.

Theres Superiour rune of speed with 25% boost in spvp but its bugged not doin anythin.
I got traveler too and the effect feels too good i prolly will never change lol.

Ooo nice finaly a refesh
altho im all set with full celestial already, had to manually input stats before to see the full picture xD

That Dire set is gonna be a nightmare in www >.<

Human has nothin good really imho.

Norn for snowleopard stealth escapes while roaming altho it takes 2-3 sec to do it.

Asura for less agrro in zergs if u want that. People dont even see u or care what u doin.
If u want attention biggest norn will do that. The amount of push aggressive effect norn has over asura is insane. Speakin from experience where i would move/break a zerg range standoff just cause i played the biggest norn with a schyte staff lol. Dunno how it is today with default models ON tho. I’v made smallest female norn and i can say i feel less targeted than before tho.

Asura for 1v1 fights with less obvious animations.

Asura has confusion on demand so i can see it workin nicely with perplexity runes if u want condi guardian with 2100 or more condi dmg. Altho norn has owl bleed utility now that i remember.

Charr for on demand 6 second fury on a shorter cd than save your selfs. Doesnt count as a shout tho.

Full valk or zerk + power stacks + power food + 10% dmg food + rune of pack=1-3k crits on staff 1 skill depending on the target. Mid 1600-2000 if the target is at 2600ish armor. Orb does 2-5k crit. Up to u if u wanna has close to 19k hp with valk or 14k with zerk.

I usualy run around with full valk rune of pack, bane signet, 250 stacks power, 32% crit rate
0 10 30 25 5 build (ah+em) seaweed for 10% more dmg modifier. Attack is at 3700ish somethin if i remember correctly.

Destroys ppl during a frontal push in zerg lol. The 600 range combined with the spam of 2k+ crits is amazing. I havent been able to dish out so much dmg over such area so constantly and so fast and so freakin easy on my ele or on my warrior. Its liek a wave that keeps on slammin. Dunno bout other classes but staff 1 guardian truly is a nasty skill with right gear.

randomfightfan.4091:

Hostility.4961:

randomfightfan.4091:

Hostility.4961:

And no thieves are not giving up any survivability as long as they can stealth and move away out of action. Do your 20k combo and get out of action to full hp.

How? Ini left to do 1 medium range blink, no swiftness, no target to stealth from, if I’m using bow to get out I can’t stealth, steal on cd, etc. Now watch that 20k burst and now imagine you’re a guardian. You just avoided that burst just by being what you are. Any other class might need to use a dodge or a block but the fact is EVERY class can avoid that damage easily. All you need to do is survive for 5 seconds, 5 SECONDS until ALL the might wears off. After that, you’re left with a low ini thief with no way to escape and where his heal is down.

Please do try to play thief before you complain about them…

You tellin me u cant gain distance or intitiative or stealth as a thief after a backstab? k…lol
No traits no dodge, smoke fields or anything nope nada. Backstab and ur at 1 initiative and cant move for 5 seconds. *rolls eyes

So fail… the build you quoted was 30-30-0-0-10 with full signets and all the signets activated. Where is the trait for dodging? Where is the trait for ini on invis? Where is the shadowstep skill? Where is the smoke field from d/d? Oh right, there is none. Fail post is fail.

Heres a thought… save ONE utility slot for any of the following:

Roll for initiative? Shadow step utility? Or create a smoke field with Smoke Screen? Hell even shadow refuge as obvious as it is would help.

Orrrr you could use the third signet to blind, then double dodge. Orrrr use your heals to either dodge or stealth. Too much choice really. One slot to do a 20k cnd bs combo and gtfo. But ya no thief would ever play with one utility slot as escape nope.
17k backstab down to what 15.5-16k at most with 175 less power from 5 stacks less?
Still too much burst in www. The target ..just received 20k dmg within 2-3 sec Most ppl cant tank that and either die or start to heal up wich takes time.

I dunno mate thats like one slot with a ton of choice to gtfo if u ask me. Most classes dont even have a solid one choice lol.
But ya go ahead nitpick and grab for straws in everything ppl say bout thievs Try playing other classes maybe see how it is?

Also this talk about kill shot lol…i got 1500+ hours of www zerg t1 fighting iv received a kill shot maybe 5 times in all those hours. Fought a thief and the op dmg allot more than that tho.

randomfightfan.4091:

Hostility.4961:

And no thieves are not giving up any survivability as long as they can stealth and move away out of action. Do your 20k combo and get out of action to full hp.

How? Ini left to do 1 medium range blink, no swiftness, no target to stealth from, if I’m using bow to get out I can’t stealth, steal on cd, etc. Now watch that 20k burst and now imagine you’re a guardian. You just avoided that burst just by being what you are. Any other class might need to use a dodge or a block but the fact is EVERY class can avoid that damage easily. All you need to do is survive for 5 seconds, 5 SECONDS until ALL the might wears off. After that, you’re left with a low ini thief with no way to escape and where his heal is down.

Please do try to play thief before you complain about them…

You tellin me u cant gain distance or intitiative or stealth as a thief after a backstab? k…lol
No traits no dodge, smoke fields or anything nope nada. Backstab and ur at 1 initiative and cant move for 5 seconds. *rolls eyes

omfgvexer.8705:

let me start off by saying to all those people who are linking that youtube video of that backstab. My main is a thief and i watched that video over and over a couple of times, do you realize how MUCH survivability that guy has sacrificed in order to basically be a one trick pony?? ALL THAT GUY CAN DO IS A NICE BACKSTAB. he can probably take about 4 hits in pvp then hes dead, he has absolutely no escape tools…no CC breaks, can remove ONE condition every 30+ seconds oh and sorry he can blind a SINGLE enemy every 30+ seconds…yea real OP guys

Do you realize that IF he purpously halved his dmg with backstab it would STILL be too much? Most classes unless high tier base hp cant take it even at half! If i run full vit gear and trait im at around 22k hp and it still wont help! Dont tell me get toughness cause it wont help much. Iv ran 3900 armor against thieves in real www and still Hs spammed for 4k crits. Thats like 3sec down to half hp if i cant dodge.

And no thieves are not giving up any survivability as long as they can stealth and move away out of action. Do your 20k combo and get out of action to full hp.

Thieves should be bursty and agile but this current state is beyond the definition of burst imo.

I find it funny that people still say / think thieves are squishy. Thats so 2012.
You dont need all-out zerker burst gear to do damage since armor means nothing.
Its about game mechanics and stealth/evasion skills are the cool thing 2013.

Been hit 5ks heartseeker dmg on 3900 armor test on my warrior with a shield on. Dunno what the thief was using. Didnt manage to take screenshot cause a zerg passed by and i had to get away from 50 ppl. Wich i handeld allot easier than the lone thief from before lol.

Unless you have protection 33% up + somethin like guardians signet 10% that toughness past 2625 is nothing. Even with this my guardian melts to thiefs unless im timing my dodges. Wich are endless *sarcasm

Burst wars 2 and Ac Wars 2 is what we playing lately.

Ya shaman gear has 187 more vit TOTAL than sentinel/soldier. Main vit then healin power and condition damage so its for condition builds.

Boon hate dmg aside i gotta say something.
Its not just guardian that will feel the lack of aegis blocking dmg. Every aegis source we have was for 5 allys too. I bet many will feel the lack of it mitigating dmg on their hp after this patch. Its stuff ppl didnt pay attention to before cause it came automatically with having guardians around you. Sorta things you take for granted Like guardian poping F3 or Retreat now and then for his own sake or for others doesnt mather we still had our virtues for that. But soon warriors gonna aoe cc/dmg you through that and they do hurt ^^ They hurt other warriors too even

Some roamers soloers ppl who look for a pointless 1v1 wont see it happeing but the rest of the raiders, gvgrs blobbers and so on will sure as hell feel it allot i can tell you that ^^

randomfightfan.4091:

Hostility.4961:

Every class can pretty much be speced bunker. Just focus the build on every defensive trait or boon or mechanic you can find. If you cant get a certain boon from your class theres a ton of runes than can act as a source to be used to bunker up like lyssa, monk, dwayna, earth and so on. Hell i bet you in the end you could make most of them bunkier than a guardian. But the thing is other classes dont spec that way cause thy have choices.

I’ve said it before a long time ago people think guardians are tanky because we are forced into it due to lack of choice. We cant build burst like others so whats left? You only see guadians tanking cause its the way majority of guardians can play the game at all as guardian. IF guardian can only paint his car red then thats what everyone sees a ton of red cars doing wat red cars do. Cant see blue cars if we dont have blue paint.
Other classes got a whole spectrum to use tho lol.

If every thief was bunkering up to their teeth we would be talking bout that in their forum and the patch would be nerfing them. It would be pretty much hax godmode to play a thief with a guardians mindset just with ton of stealth in full ptv with defensive traits and runes. Dmg would not be bursty but neither is guardians. Altho u dont see many thiefs doing it cause they dont have to. But if they had to then we would have people saying how these thiefs “walk through a zerg into a tower”.

Anyways this patch is going too deep into the base of the class really. It doesnt feel like balancing but more like punishing the core of the class that needs its blocks to stay in the game.

Thief can’t go bunker in pvp since when you’re stealth, you lose the ability to cap or stop someone from caping. We need to use stealth as well sine we have no access to protection aside from stealing it now. In wvw, we are great bunkers but wvw isn’t where a roaming class needs to be bunker (aside from ele since they do a ton more damage than thieves when built bunker). If I go sword dagger in full pvt with tanky runes, I can be very annoying when played right. However, due to no access to protection or aiges or block or any other good defensive boons, I get blown up in a heart beet if I don’t fully maximize shadow step shadow return. Not to mention any damage you could be doing is almost 100% reliant on landing a full aa rotation. If you don’t land that 3rd hit, your damage is negligible at best. With all these downsides, we still don’t have anywhere close to the godlike access to healings that other classes have. Shout bunker warrior, d/d bunker ele, symbols bunker guard, bomb bunker engi, etc. Everyone has better access to healing and defensive boons than thieves for GOOD bunker builds.

Was talking www mostly where we got access to food and more stat freedom and way more objectives and rolls. No one said thief is forced to roam They roam cause they can and shine at it. There are thief builds for zerg blobs too. Just have to “think outside teh box” and fill a diffrent role, bring something to the table u usualy dont.

But even in spvp iv managed to make almost all classes tankier than many ppl play them. All you need is allot of experience with a guardian then try emulating that onto some other class. Takes a defensive mindset. As in you have to accept your dmg will not be bursty.

But what i see most ppl do and i swear its liek 80-90% is use rune of divinity or ruby orbs or some other dps setup. And every kitten trait that gives dmg. And then they complain they cant live in zergs/blobs and that their class sucks at it and how guardian is op tank lol. And then anet listens and boom overnerf.