Guild Wars 2

Rain.9213:

Malchior.5732:

Buran.3796:

@Malchior: when you say “PvE” you really mean “PvE raids” which are a niche mostly played by a minority (as PvP) and in which most of the matches are inside PvE guilds, which have no problems lining almost any team composition, because they are crushing raids playing 9, playing 8, 7… playing all exotics and carrying hard any hobo from their guild with 0 problems.

If a player has hard time entering in public raids as a Rev due the crapiness of the class He can easily fix it entering in a guild, because most of them are prone to help their own members no matter the class and race your main is.

Uhh, raids are actually pugged quite often and I can only think of a few guilds that are actually good enough to low-man them.

It’s also not “just simply join any raid guild” to play your garbage Rev. The average guild will expect 100% meta compositions and they might let you run Rev after you prove yourself, but you’re directly harming the group’s time in most cases when you do that.
Assuming you can join a guild that will even let you play non-meta in raids in the first place. Yes, some will help you, but not so you can stay on your trash class or so you can use your bad build, it’s so you can learn to play meta and actually contribute.

Have you tried to raid on a Revenant yourself? It’s not easy.
If you don’t raid with a guild, then you’re just gonna have to suck it up and basically never use it because most groups will just deny you or ask you to swap.

In PvP, you frequently see people getting to the higher ranks with Revenant at the very least and I hear that some organized groups do well with them.
Compare in PvE, where Revenant literally has no desired role except arguably on a single boss. It’s almost completely unwanted in the end-game.

This.

Every single raid guild I’ve joined has required you to play meta. I’ve gone through about 4 or 5 raid guilds now pre-Rev nerf and post-Rev nerf.

Pre-nerf, I had to constantly either drop out of the group because they already had a Revenant slot filled or we wiped because we had 2 to 3 Revenants taking up DPS slots.

Post-nerf, no one wanted to play with me despite being an experienced player with full ascended and previous Raid experience on this and other MMO’s.

Revenant just doesn’t bring anything notable to Raids that other classes don’t have. That and they sometimes even bring what Revenant offers and more. With Elementalist running Warhorn, your boon sharing isn’t even as desirable as Chronos, Eles, and Warriors can pump out boons and outdamage Revenant plus Ele can even choose to extend their boon duration with Earth 4 on Warhorn or their passive which automatically casts the skill every so often.

Most people sadly tend to want to run the “meta” because they don’t know/understand any different and think that’s the only way to play. I’ve done both Power and Condi Rev in Raids with zero issues so I understand your pain.

As to the “what do they offer that others don’t” I believe I mentioned in an earlier post – if you have a Rev to give you boons, other classes can focus more on damage/cc if needed, and less on boons.

I’m the only “main” Rev player in my guild, there’s probably 2 other people who play it, they know my capabilities in Raid/Fractals/x content so no issues there. I have to say though, whilst I’ve never “pugged” a Raid in the truest sense (our guild has pugged a few extras before), I have pugged T4 Fractals and have never been asked to switch off Rev which I’ve seen a few people say in these forums before. I guess my point is that I really don’t understand the whole “Rev is useless/not wanted at endgame”. Maybe I’ve been lucky that I’ve never ran into such people, but I tend to judge on capability and skill rather than class when doing any content.

Buran.3796:

Its Nerfing Time.1495:

It is a little tiring to constantly see comments like this from people who think that Herald is just good for a mule or “low level content”. I have all of the weapons, regularly use staff and see no DPS issues at all (I absolutely love the breakbar destruction #5 can do).

Most of the criticism about the current state of the Rev turns around how performs in PvP, not PvE.

In PvE you can solo most of the contest with any class, and if the class is a Rev you can soloing using sword #1 ~90% of the time (that includes a few champions).

There’s still certain problems in PvE (i.e.: conditions, due condi Rev is mainly a mele fighter with torment as main source of damage, which means that you must either stay close to the target to stack condis and do half of damage or fight at range which means no condition stacks at all). But PvE isn’t problematic because as was said PvE is easy, “facerrolling your keyboard” content.

PvP instead is a whole different animal: there’s certain roles, and your class can either fit at least one of them with a certain degree of success or find himself between a roack and a hard place. Currently Revenant is subpar in those roles and on top of that is hard to manage, because you need to arrange both cooldowns and energy, you have low access to cleansing, expensive stunbreakers, not reliable sources of stability, poor weapon variety and no flexibility at all chosing skills for you utility bar. Revenant was always hard to use (and along the time the subsequent nerfs made Him even harder), but at least there were rewards (mostly: the damage). Currently has no rewards: is a high risk – low reward class.

The current state is bad, no need to sugar it.

I’m aware of the issues around PVP, however PVP is not the main focus of the game nor the post. It wasn’t actually specified which, I only addressed the PVE side as I do not PVP.

You don’t have to solo with just Sword (although it is a viable option) and I certainly wouldn’t recommend it as it can be a little bit boring.

Condi Rev has pretty good access towards Burning as well as Torment – you can make a target move around within your burning field easily enough, and if built with full Vipers + food it’s pretty quick to ramp up.

The current state in PVP might be bad – again I don’t address (nor much care) for PVP. The state of Rev however, is not anywhere near as bad as people here certainly put it. People put “oh pve is faceroll, play whatever”, then also mention “rev can’t do xyz”. The two don’t quite add up (with xyz usually being higher Fractals or Raids). Rev is in a moderate place in PVE, not amazingly overpowered or underpowered.

As stated before it could do with some buffs and a full PVE/PVP split (which would help alleviate balance concerns on both sides of board)

Scar.1793:

Hyo Jin.5630:

Don’t base your opinion on other subjectives players’ ones….
Revenant & especially Herald is a GREAT support class which offers tons of boons Buffer / Damage dealer with decent damage output

Not sure if trolling at this point. All the boons can be covered much better by other classes that can do better DPS and have better utilities for the group. Fury ? Druid with tiger. Power stack ? PS warriors do that so much better. And so on.

The damage isn’t that great either, especially on staff, there’s nothing crazy about it.

If you plan on camping world maps and low level content, then yea sure it’s ok, but like any other class you can play pretty much anything and be fine.
Now, start fractals and raids. You’ll quickly understand the problem of having such weak and buggy class.

I have a Herald that has 3 full Ascended sets for Support, Condi and Power/Boons (mix of Zerk/Valk, Commanders and Assassins that give me 100% Crit and Boon rate). I have zero issues in Raids or Fractals. It is a little tiring to constantly see comments like this from people who think that Herald is just good for a mule or “low level content”. I have all of the weapons, regularly use staff and see no DPS issues at all (I absolutely love the breakbar destruction #5 can do).

Prior to HoT I mained a Guardian, once I got Rev/Herald I never looked back because I had so much fun with it (still do).

Herald IS a great class, sure it can take a little bit of learning to get used to the class and master it, but in my own opinion and experience – once you do, you’re nigh unstoppable. For 5 man content, the Herald gives you boons that allow other classes to not focus on boons and instead damage or support, which is sort of the point.

Are there bugs for the class? Yes (I haven’t personally experienced any of these other than that bug which used to stop you during the Sword bladestorm).

Could it use some buffs? Yes, especially 100% skill splits for PVE and PVP where there are obvious differences.

tl;dr build a Rev, play it, if you enjoy it go with it and ignore anything you see from anyone else.

DeceiverX.8361:

The SoI nerf didn’t screw over Rev, though. qT and DnT both proved on paper even after the nerf, rev still had a commanding spot in optimized raid groups. You talk about being screwed for a meta that not only doesn’t matter if it exists (so long as the gameplay is good), but for the design decisions which have blatantly and undeniably ruined the competitive formats. That’s not a fair compromise when the only aspect of the game that should ever have a real metagame will ever be the competitive PvP environments the term for the “meta” in PvE isn’t even correct use of the word nor is it respective to what it means in game design, too. All it comes down to is people finding optima and sharing it with others who copy-paste and insist that people share the ideology. The entire existence of a real metagame in PvE does not actually exist and the thoughts surrounding the use of the optima are invoked when there’s developer intervention and things change. Considering game design dictates this pattern is absolutely essential for success (or the perpetuation of a meta in a balanced intelligent-agent-versus-intelligent-agent environment), there’s factually no reason to be opposed aside from minor inconvenience of no longer being part of the optima for a period, which, if the consequences are short-term, it matters little, and suggests it will be resolved near in the future, too, encouraging the existence of optima that are more difficult to derive.

The problem is the fact people can’t deal with their class not being overpowered and cry and whine and carry on when it isn’t and complain then that PvE is too easy and such nonsese. The raids can be done with three people. They’re not DPS races that hinge on everyone playing into the optimal speed clear meta to beat. It takes some player skill and group cohesion, but literally any comp can clear the content if the players know what they’re doing.

And if the game changes so fast, you’re going to see less and less players demanding strict builds and the optimas will be harder to figure out on time for the next patch. This is the enablement of build diversity, and to be totally honest, the meta in PvE has almost no relevance considering the entire point of GW2 was for there not to be an optimization scheme. If the players can’t deal with that, that’s their own problem, because by all definitions achieving the goals of the game’s manifesto would abolish the entire concept entirely.

Um, k let me correct you on a few things.

Firstly what Qt actually said was that they couldn’t actually find a place for a Rev within an optimised group, not that it was a viable option.

Secondly, there is always a meta. ALWAYS. Why? Very simple reason – humans are efficient at finding efficient ways to do things that require the least amount of effort. PVE meta does exist, look at dungeons back when they were popular – zerk or gtfo. Zerkers dealt high damage at a fast rate and thus cleared the dungeon. More and more people began using and expecting thus it became the “meta”.

Meta isn’t something limited to PVP, it happens in PVE too. If the entire point of GW2 was for there to be no meta, it failed rather spectacularly. Hell there was never meant to be a “trinity” but guess what, now there is.

Finally, yes raids can be done with three people however the premise on which you state that is false. Done by three people in highly optimised…oh that’s right, DPS builds. The raids ARE a DPS check (some encounters more than others). If they could be done by any class in any gear all with the same level of success, then there would be no meta. But that’s not how it works.

The SoI indirectly screwed Rev out of the Raid “meta” for optimal DPS. Can they still raid? Yes same as any other class.

Actually, Staff is a viable DPS weapon for the Rev. Yes it is more of a support weapon than straight DPS like the Sword is, but the damage definitely does not “pale in comparison” at all, nor is it significant.

Rev certainly does not also have mediocre conditional damage, as they can stack Burning very, very quickly and as long as a mob is moving in PVE then Torment damage is doubled. Their only ranged weapon is Hammer, but it hits pretty hard so it’s hardly a “weak” ranged option.
I mained Guardian exclusively pre-HoT and have moved onto Rev since and find it a rather large upgrade in my own opinion.
Rev has the advantage over Daredevil for Staff because it isn’t made of paper, one hit will not down a Rev.

I use the below build for my Rev, I pretty much main the Staff and have 0 issues in the content I do (which includes all 4 tiers of Fracs, Dungeons, DS, Personal Story etc)

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlUQJAWin3gWNSuQrJRbo/ksP0gS4I6QJ4EdrkFNFyugJshqzYHBpdABoBA-TBCBABjq+DN7P4oSQD1FklSPsUGAwTAohLBApA8amF-e

Combined with Herald and a mostly passive playstyle of boon stacking, Staff allows me to switch between defensive and offensive at the flick of a switch, breakbar easily, condi clear, tank, stun and damage. A properly played Herald is nigh unkillable. That build gives me 95% boon duration with F2, 100% crit with Fury, roughly 18k life and I always run around with Speed, Regen and F2 enabled till I get in a fight, so I pretty much have perma-regen and speed.

I also have a Vipers Condi build which I thoroughly enjoy and find the DPS is very effective, let me know if you wish to see that also.

All I can and will say is this > take what you read with a grain of salt, find what you like to play and go with it. If you enjoy Guardian, go nuts. If you enjoy Rev, go nuts.