Guild Wars 2

Daedraz.1650:

I have not mentioned how revs do in OW because I just don’t care about OW. I haven’t said they’re bad at OW either. I am focusing on the part of OP’s question where he asks how revs are for fractals. I keep on saying “anything works” because saying rev, for that matter any class, is good at OW is such a blanket statement. Everyone has different standards for what is good or not when it comes to OW because the nature of OW content is not as one dimensional as fractals or for that matter raids. In fractals, people just want dps because your group has a singular objective- kill things. The same cannot be said for OW. Some people want mobility to get from point A to B quicker; some people want survivability; some people just want raw damage to kill things faster; some people want lots of condi cleanses to get rid of mobility impeding conditions. This is why there are no meta builds for OW. There are a lot of ways to spec any class to fit your OW world needs. I honestly don’t see why you are so hung up on this.

If you want to be pedantic, sure. I do agree there are things that rev can do well when it comes to open world. Mobility is sure one of them. I imagine guardian players would kill to get perma swiftness. They’re definitely not super squishy like elementalists and won’t get 3 shotted by pocket raptors. When you run into a group of people doing OW events, you can buff them. Aside OW, revs are amazing in wvw. There are few things scarier than a bunch of revs running after you and having a bunch of revs in a zerg amplies its strength so much. But OP is also asking how good revs are in fractals. And it is a flat out lie to tell him that he’ll always be welcome in all high tier fractal parties. A lot of times people won’t mind. But a lot of times, OP will run into people who will tell him to switch classes because they already have a PS warrior in the group and need a class like elementalist that can outdps a rev by 2 times. I personally don’t mind at all. I’ve seen videos of revs soloing fractal 100 CM so I know for a fact that they can get stuff done just as well as any other class. But a lot of other people don’t want revs in their parties simply because qt said they’re bad. If you don’t think this ever happens then you are disconnected with reality. I’m not trying to antagonize you, but that is the plainest way I can describe it as. OP will never ever have a problem like that if he decides to roll a guardian. Everyone loves guards in pve. The same can’t be said for revs.

The only lies made here have been yours. Fractal parties as a whole do not care if you have a Rev or not. The only ones who do are spreadsheet warriors, the ones who go down every 5 seconds because they can’t adapt or learn their failures. They are the parties not worth the time for anyone other than spreadsheet warriors.

And now to further prove my point, you said and I quote directly here:

“people don’t want because qt said so”.

Blind, spreadsheet, sheep.

You then say you’ve seen vids of Rev’s soloing 100 Fractal, thereby proving they are not only capable, but good. This goes against everything you’ve said thus far.
Congratulations on tearing apart your own argument in two sentences boy.

Oh and the reason why he sees all the negativity is from people like you. From PVP’ers and spreadsheet warriors who hate Rev because they were not good enough to master it, and because PVP has it’s own issues. That’s why I began posting in the Rev forum, so new players can see it’s just a load of BS coming from incapable salty players and the Rev is actually worth it.

Daedraz.1650:

@Nerfing This right here is the quintessential anthology of every scrub quote ever. Yea no wonder your t4 parties need lots of thinking or adapting when things go wrong- very inept players. That much has been evident from the moment you said it makes no difference if a fight lasts 5 minutes longer, seeing how competent groups complete most t4 fractals in under the 10 minute mark with some of them only taking 5 minutes. Competent groups melt bosses so fast even in t4 that fights never last long enough/go wrong to the point where you need to adapt or change strategies.

And my argument has been debunked because…. You said so? Are we regressing into elementary school logic now? I mean I get you’re salty, but come on man. I haven’t seen a single shred of evidence from you backing your claims- all I’ve seen is salty rants and tears. I don’t need to be able to ‘handle’ anything you say, because I don’t care at all. After having played rev, and witnessed first hand how mediocre it is, my mind is made, along with those of the majority of people telling OP rev is bad. Anything you say is coming through one ear, and straight out the other. Good luck convincing OP.

No boy, they don’t. Because unlike your parties, ours don’t contain spreadsheet warriors who go down every 5 seconds because they don’t know what they’re doing. My Rev builds can adapt to any situation very quickly, whereas whenever you played Rev I’m pretty sure you just went power Shiro and when it failed because you can’t handle it, you raged.

“competant”, so you mean speed running morons who wouldn’t be able to handle anything going wrong. If they couldn’t do it in 5 minutes, they’d consider it a failure, which is hilarious. There is no difference between a 5 or 10 minute group – none. None whatsoever boy. It’s a failed argument to try and say otherwise.

Your argument was debunked the moment you started raging about how meta groups are the best and thats that. When you blindly follow somebody elses opinion and insist it’s the best no matter what – thats when it was debunked. The only one getting salty tears here is you, because you are being put in your place and can’t handle somebody actually saying how and why the Rev is actually a great class.
I’ve provided no evidence? I’ve discussed and shown my own builds, my own experiences and why the Rev is a great c lass. What have you shown? Nothing except the spreadsheet warrior mindset “Rev is bad no matter what”. You’re the one showing nothing.

Your majority is non-existent boy, I suggest you learn that already. You failed at Rev because you yourself were not good enough.

Daedraz.1650:

I only mentioned pre-raid era fractals. Never made any mention about the suitability of a rev in a raid or whatever. Did I trigger you so hard that you’re starting to see things that aren’t there? It is true about the toughness ignore, but because condi specs couldn’t really stack enough conditions to the point where they’d be dealing competitive amounts of dmg, most players ran zerk builds. But then again I am not surprised since efficiency is clearly not a priority for you. As that Arthur Dent guy mentioned, this is an indicator of how inept the people you’ve been playing with are.

Ah the good old “unthinking sheeple” argument. Stay redpilled m’friend and may your fedora tip on forever. The majority of us don’t want OP wasting his time on a lackluster class simply because you just happen to really like it. You can prattle on about how good rev is, but at the end of the day OP will see that the majority of people are saying revs are lackluster and you desperately trying to defend revs because you main it. I’m sure OP won’t have trouble making the right decision.

Contrary to your statement, I am not bothered nor irritated by what you are saying at all. As is the case with most people here, I stopped taking you seriously the moment you said metas are irrelevant. At this point I am only replying to you because I don’t want to see OP invest time and money on a class that frankly needs a huge fix/fundamental rework. You’re the one who is giving OP inaccurate information because you have severe tunnel vision.

Nice try kid, but it’s in your own posts. You’ve made plenty of them stating Rev isn’t worth it anywhere. The only one being triggered here is you, because you’re being called exactly what you are – a spreadsheet warrior blindly following what somebody else says is viable.

Condi builds could easily stack the damage high enough, in fact condi damage was toned down somewhere just after Scarlett, or just before her final battle.

There’s nothing inept about the people I play with, we just don’t require spreadsheet sheep in our teams because they’re nothing but dead weight. Inability to think or adapt in a fight, expecting things to go one way or else. Dead. Weight.

The majority argument has already been debunked kid, and as shown repeatedly your arguments are no more than failed opinions because you can’t handle anyone proving the Rev is a great choice.
By all means, run with your tail between your legs after not being able to stand being called out on your BS.

There is nothing about the Rev that requires a fundamental rework. Some things could change yes, not fundamental however. You are simply replying because somebody is actually telling the OP Rev is good, which you can’t handle. That is why you reply.

I gave the OP actually useful information, and told him to test it out for himself. Not rely on opinion and spreadsheet sheep telling him otherwise.

Daedraz.1650:

@Nerfing OP clearly says solo pve AND fractals. Jesus you can’t even read son. Pre-raid fractal meta was zerk because viper gear, or for that matter any gear with expertise traits, did not exist back then. Even with the condition system revamp, zerk builds were pulling ahead. It was only after the introduction of heart of thorns where condition builds started becoming more prevalent. This is a telltale sign that you really have no idea what you are talking about.

I honestly do not see the problem with following qt metas. If someone wants to dump a whole lot of hours into finding a much more efficient way of doing things, I have absolutely no qualms about following their advice. It makes runs go quicker. Refusing that and insisting on doing things in an inefficient way does nothing but make runs go slower. I mean, if you like inefficiency, then that’s a you thing. Do what you want on your own time. But don’t go around trying to convince people that there is no point in doing things more efficiently. “Guys.. Guys… I know there’s this thing called the chainsaw, but that is irrelevant and just too mainstream. A real independent thinking man chops down wood with his trusty hatchet.”

At this point I’m convinced that you were that one guy who always kept on trying to join dungeon parties on a rampager staff necro and got angry with metas because you kept on getting kicked from groups.

Unfortunately for you son, whether you like it or not, metas are everywhere. And they’re here to say. You have metas on EVERY mmo game. You just can’t avoid them. Gw2 in particular is VERY meta heavy. And most of us people here who actually know what they are talking about don’t want to see OP investing time into a character that is considered ineffective in the current meta. Times change and metas come and go. Deal with it.

Sounds like you can’t read if you’re bleating on and on about raids. He said he does fractals, not asking how Rev DOES at fractals. It can be seen either way but regardless, Rev is great at both.

Pre-HoT Fractals were still run with Condi gear, Vipers didn’t exist true but that didn’t stop Condi domination because of the aforementioned toughness ignore. Did you even play Fractals back then? It’s looking more and more likely like you’re just talking straight up BS.

You don’t see the problem of being an unthinking sheep following what somebody else says. That’s fine, you do that – but do not then foist that opinion on others saying “this is right and everything else is wrong”. You are looking for speedruns, not everybody else is – this is something you should recognize and realise.

There is nothing remotely inefficient about taking a Rev if the player knows what they are doing – this goes for any class. Note I say class and not build. Nice try with the chainsaw thing, but no, that’s not how it works kid. Revs are no less efficient than any other class.

If you bothered reading other posts I made, I’ve made it clear I mained Guardian pre-HoT, so again by all means continue to look dumb.

Whether you like it or not boy, meta’s are irrelevant unless you want a meta group. I suggest you learn to deal with it and learn opinions are irrelevant. I don’t care how much it irritates you, you need to deal with it.

The majority of you here don’t want to see somebody enjoy and have success on a class you write off because you don’t want to look past a spreadsheet, based on somebody elses opinion.

Deal with it, Revs are fine.

Daedraz.1650:

Obtena.7952:

Daedraz.1650:

Metas are facts when they are backed up by extensive testing, numbers, and hard evidence such as recorded footage.

… that aren’t relevant to Solo PVE or fractals outside of engineered team compositions; the things the OP was asking about.

I can’t stand to watch people abuse others with meta for elements of the game where it’s completely irrelevant. If the OP was asking if Rev’s were any good for Raids or optimized teams for fractals, then SURE … spouting meta rhetoric to say Rev isn’t that good there would be met with no problem. That’s not the case here.

No one is denying rev can be used for solo pve. You can use anything for solo pve. And as mentioned, if he just wants to do tier 1 and 2 fractals until the end of time then sure he can roll with a rev. No one cares at that level of fractals. You could probably run a rev in t3 as well. Once you get to t4 is when pug groups really start adhering to metas. Of course, not ALL t4 parties are gonna follow a meta party comp, but a LOT of them will. Most t4 parties you see on lfg aren’t running for fun. Fractals has been out for years and at this point, people just run it for dailies. This means that people gravitate towards meta builds and party comps so they can breeze through dailies and get their rewards. Really getting confused where you people are getting the “metas don’t matter for t4 fractals” rhetoric from. Most pugs I run with are not only using meta builds and party comps, but are also running dps meters. I’m simply disputing anyone who says revenant is a good class, because that is just flat out wrong. You guys are giving OP bad advice based on personal bias. My sentiment is clearly shared by the majority, as evident in this thread and numerous other threads in the revenant section of the forums. Protip: when you think something and the majority tells you otherwise, there usually is merit to what the majority is saying.

The “pugs” you’re running with are just exactly the same as you, because they’re the type you go running with.
You dispute saying Rev is good with opinion, because you like others cannot think past a spreadsheet to save your life. The “majority” of the forum are spreadsheet warriors thus confirmation bias. In actual fact, your opinions are irrelevant.
The argument from majority is also irrelevant, it doesn’t matter how many of you spreadsheet warriors bleat the same sheep tone – Rev is actually a good class, you people are the problem.

post 1 of 2

Daedraz.1650:

Metas are facts when they are backed up by extensive testing, numbers, and hard evidence such as recorded footage. Not sure what part of that you’re having a tough time understanding. I don’t think I can explain that in any plainer way. If you think that quantitative analytics based on extensive testing against training golems = biased opinions… Boy, that is some climate change denial level of reasoning right there. You should go work for Oklahoma Senator Jim Inhofe. I’m sure he’d be glad to have someone like you on his staff.

Whether killing something 5 minutes quicker or slower is a problem or not is not up to you. The meta dictates that efficiency is the name of the game. “B-b-but most people don’t care about metas!” Surely this must be some kind of joke. Ever since the game came out, the meta has always been kill things asap. Even during dungeon eras there was the full zerk meta- if you didn’t ping full zerk on join then you were kicked from a lot of groups. During the pre-raid fractals era the meta was full zerk. I thought you were just really misinformed, but clearly you have no idea what you are talking about at all.

And no you’re not giving OP good info at all. “No no no just ignore everyone. You are perfect the way you are. Everyone is wrong.” What is this, some kind of fat acceptance club?

No boy, metas exist when somebody figures out the fastest way to do something, and every spreadsheet warrior jumps on the bandwagon – this is whats happened here.

You seem to be misunderstanding here. QTs opinion and your opinions are irrelevant for the simple reason of this – it does not matter how fast you do something in PVE if there is no hard-wipe failure condition. Even then, still doesn’t matter as much if you’re good enough.
Your own hatred for anything Rev, and anything non-spreadsheet related shows quite heavy. If QT said bark, you’d start barking pretty hard and fast. Their testing in a controlled environment is fine, and they test hard – nothing wrong there. The problem comes, when people take that (like you) and say “nothing else matters but this”, “everything else is wrong”. That boy, is the problem. Your attitude.

As stated before QT have said themselves “don’t just take what we do at face value at bible truth”.

Killing 5 minutes slow/fast is not up to you either. Spreadsheet warriors looking for meta like you, don’t either. Anybody who is like that, is not worth playing with because the moment something new crops up – you are no good. You can’t think beyond what the spreadsheet says. Hell had QT not shown the “meta speedrun” or “fastest way” to kill raid bosses, people like you would never be able to do raids at all.

Only those obsessed with speed running care about the meta. Surround yourself with enough like-minded people and you get confirmation bias. This is what you have. Not everybody cares about the meta – people just want the rewards, to have fun, to get something done, to enjoy the game and the journey.

I was there for the full zerk meta, I laughed at anybody who whined for full zerk because they were incapable of doing anything else, assuming and insisting it was the best yet always on the floor.

Fractals were full zerk? Now you have to be trolling. Conditions > Zerk simply because of the armour (toughness) ignore that they had. Shows the limits of your knowledge entirely.

I’ll sum this up with what Obtena has been pointing out. OP wanted to know for solo PVE. Not Raids, not Fractals or PVP. Solo PVE. Your opinion and that of QT is irrelevant. Learn to deal with it.

Daedraz.1650:

Its Nerfing Time.1495:

Whether you like it or not, their opinions don’t matter anymore than yours does. Why? Simple – it doesn’t matter how fast you run something. Can you kill a boss? Yes? Then it’s irrelevant if a different group does it differently or faster.

Contrary to your statements, their ‘opinions’ actually do matter. And at this point due to the amount of testing and proof they have qt metas are basically facts. Your lackadaisical approach to pve is why so many people are giving you flak. Why do something less efficiently when there is a more efficient way to do it? It’s like a manufacturing company refusing to implement and adopt state of the art technology that all of its competitors are using to make stuff faster- “Can I make stuff? Yes? Then it’s irrelevant if my competitors make things faster and I make things slower.”

To the vast majority of pve players, qt metas are basically the bible. Go stand in any zone and ask in map chat what the best build for a class is. Everyone is going to tell you to go check out qt’s website. It doesn’t matter if YOU think revs are good. Your wishful thinking isn’t going to break the meta. You are giving OP bad information just based on your personal bias, because once OP hits end game pve content such as t4 fractals, he WILL get flak a lot for being on a class that a lot of people deem as not good.

No, opinion is never fact. As it stands on their own word, they actually state this. They state not to take what they do as a standard and only abide by it. Of course, if you bothered reading past the spreadsheets, you’d know this.

There is nothing lackadaisical to my approach – I appear to be one of the few actually bothering to do something with a class so many write off because of their own bias and inability to think. I get flack because many of you simply cannot handle being proven wrong about your own biased opinions.

There is nothing wrong with not running meta-speedrun-spreadsheet approach. You are not an e-sports pro gamer, very few here are and it doesn’t matter if we do not kill something at the same speed. This is something you’re going to have to accept and get over. PVE content – does not matter if somebody kills something 5 minutes faster.

To “the vast majority” – you mean total majority of spreadsheet warriors which is not the vast majority of PVE players. It might be in the circles you run in, but that is not the community as a whole. I’ve watched people ask for best builds, do you know what the most popular website is? It’s not QT – it’s metabattle (which is just as bad mind you).

I gave the OP actually useful, good information. I told him to ignore everything people like you say, and actually try things out. Not to accept your biased opinions no matter what because you can’t look past a spreadsheet or PVP.

If people give him flack for what he uses, they are not good enough. They are the problem, not him nor his choice.

It doesn’t matter if YOU or any spreadsheet warrior hates the Rev or thinks it’s bad because QT/meta says so. Your opinions are irrelevant.

XxsdgxX.8109:

Yup, either a troll or suffers from tunnel vision.

Delusional

Confirmed, kitten who doesn’t know how to build and hates Rev because is a PVP player

Daedraz.1650:

Not sure what kind of pve you’ve been doing, but most people do care about metas. If you’re content doing tier 1, 2 fractals and dungeons then sure meta doesn’t matter as much. But if you think people doing t4 fractals aren’t going to care about metas, then either you haven’t run it before or you just run with a group that is super relaxed and has low standards.

Had a good laugh at “What QT says is irrelevant” part. Sounds exactly like something a guy who runs rampager gear on his condi necro because he doesn’t want to spend money on viper gear would say. Qtfy tests everything against combat golems to come up with their benchmarks. They never go off of spreadsheet analytics. They upload footage for each class/spec benchmark on their website. If you don’t even know that then clearly you have never even seen their website, which is all I need to know that you are a low or mid level pver who hasn’t dabbled in end game pve. These are the absolute crème de la crème of the pve community so I’ll take their word (and hard evidence) over anything you claim.

Honestly you just seem to be a in a state of denial because you currently main a rev. And this is coming from a guy who used to main rev when it came out, stopped playing once t4 and raid metas started forming, and eventually deleted it because t4 and raid pugs would constantly ask me to change to a more useful class.

I run any T of Fractal – have never once ran into issues doing them. Have never once encountered anybody except forum people here saying “don’t do Rev”. If you’re competent at a class, it shows. So no, most people do not care about meta and those that do are a complete waste of time because they’re refusing to think outside the spreadsheet.

Nice attempt at a personal attack, but no kid – QTs spreadsheets are irrelevant. Whether you like it or not, their opinions don’t matter anymore than yours does. Why? Simple – it doesn’t matter how fast you run something. Can you kill a boss? Yes? Then it’s irrelevant if a different group does it differently or faster.
You assume I’m low tier yet it shows you have no idea what you’re doing if you take some spreadsheet warriors opinions over actually doing the work yourself. As stated above, it doesn’t matter what they do – if you refuse to think outside the spreadsheet, if you refuse to accept anything other than what they say, you are a low tier sheep.
I’ve done ALL endgame content, I have multiple builds and multiple characters with Ascended gear, done the legendary journey specifically for my Rev. I have Rev, Druid and Guardian specifically built for raids (Rev for any role, DPS, support, Condi).

You gave up on Rev because quite frankly, looks like you weren’t good enough. You couldn’t adapt and instead gave up.

Arkaile.5604:

I have to agree with Daedraz on most of his points here. Nerfing, I hope you’re just trolling, because otherwise you’re either disconnected from reality or playing an entirely different game and mistakenly posting on these forums.

While I’ve never been booted from T4 fractals or 100cm for playing a rev, I have had some people rage at me, the more intelligible ones asking why I was even there. It isn’t common, but it does happen. As for raids, I haven’t gotten into any since the nerfs to Facet of Nature and mesmer’s SoI. Even before the nerfs I had to argue for a position on the squad when other people started suggesting we just use a different composition without a rev for higher dps.

You are correct that revs bring a lot of utility, but in end game pve content that is almost never wanted, much less needed, when other classes can put out more of the same boons and support while also providing more dps.

Again – not trolling but hilarious the forum people here think I am. Not sure why so many people just cannot accept the fact Rev is actually good. Oh wait, I do – refusal to think outside the spreadsheet.

No class can put out multiple boons and upkeep them at the same time whilst putting out DPS like the Rev – no class. Multiple classes can, but thats more than one class to do the same job whilst putting out DPS. Multiple instead of one, and the Rev does it easier. Hence why I point out with the Rev – other classes can focus less on boon upkeep and more on DPS.

The only real problems Rev face – PVP (irrelevant in PVE game), and peoples spreadsheet opinions. When those are fixed, people will find that actually, Rev is nowhere near as bad as they think.

I’m also not sure why people seem to be ignoring Obtena’s posts either, as the OP was asking for solo for the most part which Rev has 0 issue in, rather than raids which lots of spreadsheet warriors seem to be bringing up.

Daedraz.1650:

Boon bot rev will definitely work for solo pve, but that’s not saying much because practically anything will work in solo pve. You could roll a cleric necro or minstrel ranger and still do solo pve.

In a fractals setting though, groups will always prefer a PS warrior over a rev because warriors can drop strength and discipline banners. And because revs have good boon sharing but relatively poor dps, they are viewed primarily as boon bots rather than viable dps by the wider pve community, which means they are perceived as being redundant when your fractal group is pretty much always going to have a PS warrior because that is the meta party comp. As far as the wider pve community is concerned, a rev’s ability to pulse fury and protection is not enough to warrant it a spot in fractals.

And regarding revenant dps, lets phrase it this way. According to qtfy’s benchmarks, a power dps rev only does 26K against a training golem. There are 21 classes/specs that do higher dps than it. And keep in mind this 26K is achieved by NOT toggling facets on passive for boon sharing because you will need energy for vengeful hammers. So if you want to run your rev as a boon bot, dps will be much lower. Qtfy won’t even bother wasting time doing a benchmark for condi rev. Considering that they actually bothered to measure benchmarks for chronos, that sort of tells you all you need to know about condi rev dps.

26K dps is certainly not THAT horrible. But as mentioned, the game’s pve community, especially when it comes to end game content, is obsessed with metas and trends. I’m just giving OP my honest 2 cents. If he really likes playing a rev he can play it all he wants. He bought the game with his money, and she should be free to play it however he wants. But until the next expansion is revealed, he’ll just have to get used to getting that ‘second class citizen’ treatment because he’s on a class that most people perceive to be a bad class.

I do believe you’re confusing “wider pve community” with “spreadsheet warriors”. Not everybody cares about the meta running, and there is little issue with Rev damage. Warriors can drop banners, Rev can continuously pulse multiple boons at once and upkeep them with next to no issue. What the meta says is valid and what actually is valid, two very different things.

Revs are viewed as boon bots because it is a strength, a multi-class capable of different roles. It can DPS, support, Condi, boon-bot.

What QT says quite frankly, is irrelevant. Why? because they’re part of the problem – only looking at the numbers, spreadsheet analytics without actually doing the in-game testing on everything. They haven’t looked at Condi-Rev? That’s their problem. You, like many others and they, write something off because they assume from their spreadsheets it isn’t viable.

I main Rev and have never once encountered anybody with the “revs are second class” except here on the forums.

Daedraz.1650:

@OP Revenant definitely is a class that needs some rework from a pve/raid perspective. It certainly isn’t as horrible as a lot of people make it out to be, but then again it definitely is not in a particularly good spot right now.

The primary problem is that a) Rev dps is rather low (rev condi builds are absolutely abysmal to the point where i doubt they’d even be able to outdps a chronomancer). b) The boons it grants are redundant because having 2 PS wars and druids running fury pets is meta. Assuming your PS wars and druids have at least some semblance of an idea of what they are doing, each subgroup will always have 25 might and close to perma fury, which renders a revenant’s boon sharing abilities redundant and useless. c) Because gw2 is so meta heavy, there is a ton of stigma associated with revs, which means people will automatically think you suck because you’re on a ‘sucky’ class that isn’t meta. This means people won’t want you in their raid squads. This is very unfortunate because to be quite honest, sure rev is not stellar, but it isn’t exactly THAT bad as well. Funnily enough, most of the worst raiders/pugs I’ve ever seen have been eles or engis who think they’re mlg top dps, but end up doing horrible dps because they can’t handle the complex rotations in an actual raid fight.

If you’re doubting it can out-DPS Chrono, this tells me you haven’t actually built one. The DPS is certainly not abysmally low.

As Obtena has pointed out, the boon-sharing is not redundant. Rev has a much easier time upkeeping and pulsing boons than any class and can pulse multiple at once. Revs ability to do this is NEVER useless.

The meta problem would be solved if people actually used their brains rather than spreadsheet thinking.

I think it’s hilarious you kids think I’m a troll because you can’t build the Rev in PVE properly. You write it off because you can’t build and based from PVP assumptions. You base it on only running spreadsheet builds, which pretty much explains why you can’t build.

The Rev is good, you are bad. It’s as they say in PVP:

“learn to play”.

I’ve linked my builds in previous topics, but by all means do say I keep them a secret kid.

XxsdgxX.8109:

It needs a complete redesign.

Learn to build

zoomborg.9462:

Its nerfing time, even if u have a rev in a meta group, other classes dont sacrifice anything to give out boons. With 2 mesmers cc really strong. On the other hand rev is the one sacrificing boons to keep up the dps cause if u upkeep boons there’s no chance to proc equillibrium.
As you said end game stuff with rev is viable but a lot of people go for the best option possible and rev has lost it’s edge in the current meta.Let\s not beat around the bush.

It’s perfectly capable to build a Rev for boon duration and damage, so you don’t sacrifice anything at all. I’ve done this already and have 100% crit + boon uptime on my main build.
Other classes do sacrifice to maintain their boons, they don’t have it as easy as the Rev does. For the Rev it’s all about balance.

Most people go for some spreadsheet defined speedrun builds, and that’s that. They don’t think or believe anything else works -that is the issue.

What the meta says and what can actually work just as good are not that far off. Lets not beat around the bush – the problem is bad PVP perceptions and people who don’t think

Hyper Cutter.9376:

It’s mediocre in PVE at best.

Condition revenant is garbage, in particular: torment is terrible in PVE and the lack of a ranged condition weapon to swap to really hurts.

If this is your statement about Rev, then again – you do not know what you are doing. Torment is not garbage in PVE – try moving along with the enemy to force them to move? Seaweed salad gives extra damage when moving which many people use in raids, so why is the concept of simply moving (especially in a fire field) difficult?

Rev is anything but mediocre.

zoomborg.9462:

If some1 likes solo play/dungeons/fractals rev is decent.

If u are running with a group of random classes rev is usefull for providing the basic boons (might/fury/swiftness/protection). If u dont have a chrono in the group rev becomes more powerful since u have your own quickness as well and u are covering most of the cc.

If u are running with a meta group rev is rendered completely useless. CC is covered, all of the above boons are covered and rev frankly cant keep up with the dps of meta classes.

This is how the class is atm, a lot of people have fun with it, other people have abandoned it.

If you arent into end game stuff and min/maxing just play w/e you like and you should do just fine.

Revs are certainly not rendered useless in a meta group – the difference is that people don’t want it because they want QT-defined-spreadsheet-meta-speedruns. This itself is the problem.
Rev can cover multiple boons at once, upkeep them, CC, damage etc thus enabling other classes to focus MORE on DPS.
I covered in a previous post about what boons a Rev can pulse and which ones it could not. Running Quickness for yourself is a little pointless if you’re wanting to provide group buffs, it’s best for a solo option.

End game stuff with Rev is perfectly fine and viable – the majority of problems people have (and that’s about 90%+ of problems) come from the PVP crowd.

Sublimatio.6981:

rev is terrible for pve atm. horrible dps, boon sharing overshadowed by other classes etc

Spoken like somebody who has no idea what they are talking about and no idea how to build the Rev. I suggest you learn the Rev before commenting. Rev boon sharing + upkeep > any classes because Rev can have multiple boons at once.

Buran.3796:

Its Nerfing Time.1495:

Except it isn’t a blatent lie – GW2 IS and will always remain a primarily PVE game.

You deliberately skipped the term “primarily” in the post I quoted implying that GW2 lacks any kind of PvP or that PvP never had a impact in how GW2 works.

I accept that GW2 PvP is dead -as dead as the GW2 forums, I would say- but PvE/PvP skill split is a recent trend and PvP design was havin an impact until very recently.

A last note: I would say, based on which delivered this topic, that the Revenant doesn’t need a new specialization in the next expansion, because in PvE the current state is “GOOD” for most of PvErs in this thread, and the only concerns are related to PvP, which is a dead game mode. That will fit in line with the absence of news about any Rev spec in the leak showed a few weeks ago.

I skipped primarily simply because GW2 is a PVE game – this is just fact. It “has” PVP but as you say, dead.

For your last comment, this is something I agree on.

Buran.3796:

Its Nerfing Time.1495:

I actually tell people what a Rev can do and is capable of, not spreading the same crap to new players about it being unplayable and pointless. Just because you are incapable of using the Rev does not make it a crap class, and PVP input is irrelevant in a PVE game.

I’m starting to feel tired about this blatant lie; the only unique quality of GW2 is the semi active combat system and the WvW and PvP game modes. You can like the most the PvE aspects of the games and that can be true for most of this game population, but GW2’s PvE has nothing exceptional in terms of lore or content, and pales in storytelling vs games as ESO. I’m fine about you not liking the WvW/PvP aspects of the game and not touching them, but if you want to call GW2 a PvE game please beg ArenaNet to delete those (PvP, WvW) portions from the game so the people which value them can leave you and this forums in peace. Meanwhile, this is a PvE/PvP/WvW game like it or not.

Finally, about the PvE: the high end of that gamemode are the Raids; power Rev isn’t wellcomed at public raids; condition Rev is particulary un-wellcomed to public raids. Revs can still face rest of PvE content themselves albeit having “less bang for their buck” than other classes . As long as the topic creator undertands this He’ll have no problem.

Except it isn’t a blatent lie – GW2 IS and will always remain a primarily PVE game. Your personal opinion on the PVP is irrelevant – PVP is not the major pull. e-sports was attempted and a gigantic failure like the majority figured it would be. People don’t come to GW2 for the PVP. They DID for GW1 – that had very well balanced PVP and a total PVE / PVP split, something GW2 does not have but should. It is not a PVP game. It is not a PVE/PVP game. It is a PVE game WITH some PVP.
You need only look through the PVP forum to realise they have multiple topics of “PVP is empty/dead/xyz” and the problems they have (they killed E-sports for a reason).
Same for the other PVP forum (wvw) and the fact it gets very tiny attention from the Devs.

WVW is not separate from PVP – it is PVP through and through, ergo there are only two game modes – PVE and PVP. PVE is the primary focus regardless of your opinion on the game. That is why opinion is irrelevant.

For raids – Rev is not wanted because generally public runs refuse to run anything that isn’t QT-meta-spreadsheet defined. They refuse to actually think, just take the speedrun builds as “this is viable and nothing else”. There are guilds and parties who do run Revs and it certainly is not a detriment.

The “less bang for your buck” again is a misnomer – you certainly have no less bang. If you’re willing to put in the time and effort to gear and understand Rev, you’re no less than any other player.

Whats tiring is the repeated attitude of players against Rev on this forum who refuse to accept anything that isn’t meta-speedrun-viable.

ArthurDent.9538:

Kallsbo.8964:

I’m really worried that if I would choose to put my effort and a legendary into my revenant and they keep being bad for a long time I’m going to regret it a lot. How’s the games track record of buffing classes that aren’t quite up to par? Also, how does the staff compare to the sword DPS wise?

Staff does a bit over 20k DPS with realistic buffs which is about 20-25% less than sword. This is very low DPS especially for a melee weapon. The fact that nerfing time considers it a positive aspect of the weapon is actually quite hilarious or just an indicator of how inept the people he plays with are.

I find it hilarious you seem to think the difference is 20-25 when it’s closer to 10-15. Furthermore the fact that I explained you won’t 100% get that anyway due to the Staff enabling you to CC and block damage you would have taken with sword anyway (unless you dodge).

The more you post, the more I question you actually know how to use the Rev at all. Throwing out casual insults just proves you can’t handle somebody talking truthfully and positively about Rev

XxsdgxX.8109:

Its Nerfing Time.1495:

Norjena.5172:

Rev is OK for solo pve.
But if u play in any party that can provide most of the important buffs (not all, most is enough) then rev is the worst class in pve.

The dps is rly low (both, power and condi) and other classes can provide more/easier buffs while doing more dps aswell.

Again, this is not true. The Rev can provide all buffs with the exception of the following:

Quickness.
Aegis
Retaliation

That’s it. Rev can provide every other buff (and by buff, I specify here boons. Not including things like GoTL). They can provide and upkeep multiple buffs at the same time, with more ease than any other class. Other classes have to do specific things to get the buff (trait for it, use a skill etc), Rev as a Herald with Glint can passively pulse them and make stacking with others far easier for longer. They can have DPS, CC, Condi clear and block/evades in one weapon (Staff).

That means in a group setting, no other class comes close.

The damage is certainly not low for either Power or Condi, and most classes can’t even reach their top DPS without a specific set-up in terms of other classes, foods etc. You should really not write off the Rev so easily.

Once again you…

Please stop being misleading, you are just making it worse for new and casual players.
Even for veterans that want Revenant to be fixed.

P.S.

Then I saw your comments on Condi Revenant being “great”. Are for kittening real?
No wonder everyone is mostly on reddit instead of these forums.

Once again you boy…

The only one being misleading here, is you. I actually tell people what a Rev can do and is capable of, not spreading the same crap to new players about it being unplayable and pointless. Just because you are incapable of using the Rev does not make it a crap class, and PVP input is irrelevant in a PVE game.
I am a veteran for Rev, and I have built several playstyles for the Rev that work in ANY tier of content. Raids included.

Condi Rev IS great – have you ever even tried? I don’t think so. People are on Reddit because the Devs never respond here, ever. Which is a sad statement about the game in and of iteself that the Devs will not respond on the forums.

Stop spreading false information that the Rev is crap and we won’t have a problem. k?

@op

In all honesty, Anets track record on buffing classes is laughable at best – they honestly have no idea what they are doing. Oh they’ll nerf stuff alright, so it doesn’t matter what class you pick, you run the same risk of gearing it and it getting buffed or nerf.

Unless you run a Warrior – they never seem to get nerfed lol.

I’ve created 3 sets of Ascended and done the legendary journey for Bifrost for my Rev. No regrets whatsoever.

In terms of DPS, the Sword has a trait that buffs the damage and another grants vulnerability on attack, as well as deals increased damage against targets with vulnerability, then the final hit grants a slight delayed aoe hit. In a straight up fight, Sword does out-damage the Staff.

Of course, this relies on you being able to kill fast enough to reliably deal the DPS, which is where the Staff has an advantage. It can block and stun an enemy, blind and CC to breakbar for champs and has consistent DPS with the #1.

In terms of maths, Sword might be 10-15% more damage (roughly). In terms of in-game experience, half that. Against any weak enemies, the extra damage doesn’t matter. Against stronger enemies or bosses, you want the blocks / cc to give you extra time to fight back if you’ve used up your two dodges.

Norjena.5172:

Rev is OK for solo pve.
But if u play in any party that can provide most of the important buffs (not all, most is enough) then rev is the worst class in pve.

The dps is rly low (both, power and condi) and other classes can provide more/easier buffs while doing more dps aswell.

Again, this is not true. The Rev can provide all buffs with the exception of the following:

Quickness.
Aegis
Retaliation

That’s it. Rev can provide every other buff (and by buff, I specify here boons. Not including things like GoTL). They can provide and upkeep multiple buffs at the same time, with more ease than any other class. Other classes have to do specific things to get the buff (trait for it, use a skill etc), Rev as a Herald with Glint can passively pulse them and make stacking with others far easier for longer. They can have DPS, CC, Condi clear and block/evades in one weapon (Staff).

That means in a group setting, no other class comes close.

The damage is certainly not low for either Power or Condi, and most classes can’t even reach their top DPS without a specific set-up in terms of other classes, foods etc. You should really not write off the Rev so easily.

I’ve managed to get over 8 burns personally, and you also have Torment yes (plus poison if you have the trait). You also shouldn’t assume it’s only doing half damage if you can have an enemy moving in your fire field thus doing it’s full damage.

A Warrior can Condi + might upkeep, but if they have a Rev there then it suddenly becomes a hell of a lot easier on the Warrior to upkeep the 25 for longer and can therefore focus more on the DPS. That’s the point of the Rev – to be a support type making it easier for his party to focus on damage or healing.

When I say support, I mean healing – full healing. Condi druid is not full healing, it’s essentially Condi with some heals available / buffs available.

The Rev enables classes to hit their peak faster, easier, and focus more on what they’re doing and worry less about buff upkeep, or healing, as well as increase their damage and bring multiple buffs to the table at the same time. It’s a flexible ally to have in a fight, but far too many are just bogged down in the mindset of numbers, too spreadsheet speedrun minded to even bother thinking. I have a rather large distaste of meta-only people, because they have no imagination. It’s “this way or nothing”.

Question – have you ever seen or tried a condi Rev?

Support wise – Condi druid and warrior are not support, they are Condi. Rev can cover all three with relative ease allowing for the other classes to focus more on DPS. It’s a support buffer class, that’s what it’s supposed to do, give the buffs so others can focus more on a different job.

It isn’t the other way around? Rev can stack burning very quickly so you can do that + Torment damage on top if they stand still, or they move and take twice the damage from Torment. It’s a pretty simple mechanic for doing condi damage really.

Burning has a bigger role than you think, and SF lets you stack more than 4? It pulses 4 times for 3 seconds at base, and has a 3 second recharge. It’s quite spammable and doubles as a might bonus, combine with the elite burn and long condi duration, you can stack way past 4 stacks easily.
Guardian can stack that much, but can’t then stack multiple boons at the same time, which is what the Rev can do. Combined with 100% boon uptime, it can hit hard.

I’m really struggling to understand why people underrate the Rev this much

People seem to be forgetting that Rev has great condition damage in terms of Burning and Torment. You either force the enemy to stay and burn, or they move and take x2 damage from Torment. It can work pretty nicely together with the buffs it can provide at the same time which no other Condi can do. There is nothing botched about a heavy class getting in close, and as stated before – you have Burning as well as Torment.

Other classes can specialise in stacking one, maybe two at the same time. Rev can pulse boons like no tomorrow thus reducing the need for the other classes to do so, ergo focusing more on the DPS. It’s a team buffer with damage essentially.

Rev is a very fluid character that can split between what it can do at the drop of at hat – Support, Power or Condi. You also don’t lose as much DPS as people think if you use Staff for example, where you also gain a stun, CC, block and condi clear.

Protip – Ignore anything Burtnik says about Rev. I’ve yet to see any sort of positive from him, so I can only imagine he’s a player who either can’t build the Rev, or is a PVP person

Rev’s are great, they can provide team wide buffs, tank, support, DPS straight or Condi. They’re a pretty versatile class and are just as good as Guardians (I mained Guardian pre-HoT, have not looked back since), so don’t let anyone tell you otherwise.

They take some getting used to with cooldown and energy mechanics (which should really be an either / or) but are pretty kitten rewarding when mastered.

Having played every single class and made multiple builds for each one (bar Chronomancer, can’t seem to find one I’m happy with), Rev will always be my go-to.

ArthurDent.9538:

You can try to sugar coat it all you want but make no mistake, for raids with the sole exception of hand kiting at deimos, no group will ever request a revenant for their squad. Many pug groups will kick you for wanting to play rev even if they only requested a generic DPS. Pugs will never request rev as a support as they will specifically ask for druids, PS warriors, and chronos for support. Most groups will insistently ask if you have anything else you can play. Many groups will treat you as a scapegoat if things start going poorly even if they are not your fault nor DPS related. No respectable raid guild that I know of will recruit someone who only plays revenant. If you get recruited to a respectable raid guild because you play something meta they will always request you play that instead of rev unless they are already good enough that they can easily kill the boss regardless of what you play and have no problem carrying a sub par class.

Rev is the worst class for raids, no contest, no real debate. Maybe they aren’t the worst by a huge margin but it is basically a unanimous opinion among the raiding community which ensures revs will be discriminated against at all levels as even noobs will try to emulate what speed runners do.

Except they aren’t the worst class for anything. Only people interested in speed runs define it as “worst ever”. As for “unanimous”, I think you mean " amongst those who take QT’s word as bible and nothing else". Revs are perfectly capable of filling any role in raids.

I wouldn’t call any raid guild respectable if they refuse to accept any class based on what somebody else said. At the end of the day, it does not matter in any way shape or form the time it takes you to do a raid boss in. If you do it faster or slower than other guilds, so what?

Meta just means “do this in this way for shortest amount of time”. The Rev is fine to use in all content – so please do ignore posts of “rev is trash”.

In terms of Arthurs post regarding “unofficially banned” – it isn’t. Anybody running a meta team won’t want it because of QT’s benchmark meta speed-run spreadsheet. You can easily complete raids with a Rev (plus it frees up buffers to do more DPS).

Meta is defined differently on each balance patch, so in a sense it doesn’t really matter.

Overall, ignore the bad talk (unless it’s a serious bug which is pretty much unavoidable). Most people just don’t like the Rev, but it’s easy enough to prove them wrong if you’re good with it.

Buran.3796:

Its Nerfing Time.1495:

The class is not anywhere near as bugged as people seem to think or say. In the entirety of my playing Rev, I’ve encountered – 1 – bug. Just one.

1. on Sword isn’t bugged, they made it target other enemies unless there is only one available, then spike damage. Surely you should be aware of this?

I’m literaly tired in WvW of using Precision Strike and Unrelenting Assault vs veteran sentries and guards froms camps ending in some of my attacks hitting supplies and medkits (or whatever are called in English) for no reason. That’s a bug and happens every time, and is a meaningful loss in dps in two skills that are conceived to burst single targets.

Satchen asked about all parts of the game and I’m showing the two sides of the coin; He should be aware that in this game bugs that doesn’t affect the potential earnings in PvE (like the Ghost Thief build soloing a raid boss for hours) or competitive PvP (which now has less relevance, because ANet has given up) rarely get attention, which means that what’s broken usually remains broken.

Revenant is the youngest class in the game and was born in an expansion which was rushed. The bugs and lackings were “balanced” providing the class an excess of burst and evades; those advantages were gradualy nerfed on hold of the inevitble new expansion which will unleash the power creep again.

Yes, PS will hit those because they can be targeted and destroyed. Anet did failup with that but it isn’t a bug, it’s just bad programming. a bug is when something happens that shouldn’t. Bad programming is when something targets neutral when it should only target hostile.
Also, have you ever tried using something else other than metabuild and sword? You might find that perhaps is the issue? I did WVW (legendary journey) and ran into almost no issues until I found a bunker druid, otherwise my “what am i” game seemed to work quite effectively if I got killed, or when they died and came back.

Does Anet have poor balance capability and for whatever reason tried to push esports and failed? Yes absolutely, no idea why they ever bothered in the first place. They also left WVW to just flat out die, when they were trying to push more people into it (I knew it was a failed experiment from day one). He asked about PVE and WVW/PVP yes, I addressed the PVE side as I stated but also said depending on skill, you can do well in PVP.

Yes they certainly oversold the Rev and then proceeded to nerf down without much in the way of buffs, so I’m patiently waiting to see what they do with it come the new expansion. Doesn’t mean it’s not viable or bad at all.

Buran.3796:

Its Nerfing Time.1495:

Rev is the only class with access to two heals so bear that in mind, as well as (again Herald) access to 90% of boons.

That’s pretty much irrelevant without context; yes you have access to 2 legends so you can swich and use two times in a row the “6”, but most of the Rev heals are weak and and lack consitency (i.e.: Shiro heal only provides a decent amount of HP if you hit your target and Glint only if you get bursted and Mallyx heal is subpar vs power based foes). Classes with only “a single” heal as med Guardian and Warrior have much better consistency in their heals.

Also, the class is full of bugs, and you can expect from skills as sword #2 (Precission Strike) to hit every random object in the landscape instead of “real” targets. Its Nerfing Time propaganda also forgets to mention how vulnerable is Rev to heavy cc pressure, Rev is truly a “free biscuit” to some Necro and Mesmer builds. Of course nothing of this matters if you goals run around PvE, but those problems must be mentioned is a fair review of the class.

Except it isn’t irrelevant – the only thing irrelevant around here is the bad attitude people have towards Revs.
Jalis heals is pretty good (and heals two condis), Shiro is based on damage, Mallynx is good and gets better under condi pressure. Glint is hands down one of the best heals around because you can go from near death to full instantly. Combining Glint and Jalis can be far more effective than any class can get. Warrior can use the Shield stance to similar effect.

The class is not anywhere near as bugged as people seem to think or say. In the entirety of my playing Rev, I’ve encountered – 1 – bug. Just one.

1. on Sword isn’t bugged, they made it target other enemies unless there is only one available, then spike damage. Surely you should be aware of this?

It’s laughable you call it “propaganda” because neither you or others in this forum can’t handle ANYONE speaking good about Rev. Like seriously, grow up already. The Rev IS a good class.

As stated before, I don’t care about PVP because it’s not the main focus of the game, it’s a mini-side-game at best. Rev can have some good success at PVP if you know what you’re doing, but that’s the same as any class with a good player. I make it perfectly clear in my posts I don’t discuss PVP therefore your posts are irrelevant.

Satchen.8309:

Hello folks, I’m going to build a new character and I was curious about the Revenant. It looks like a fun class to play on PvE so I wanted to give it a try. But I can’t find any good information about this class.

So, without further ado…

-What’s good/bad about the Revenant?
-What are common builds and how do they play?
-Does the Revenant play well in PvE and/or WvW?
-What was your experience with playing a Rev?
-Do you still play a Rev character? Why or why not?

Please provide objective assessments of this class. While sharing opinions and experiences can be helpful, I don’t want to receive a bunch of answers saying something like, “Revenant sucks cuz I didn’t like it” or “Rev sucks, choose a different class”. I’m looking for good information so I build a character I’ll enjoy playing.

Despite what you’ll hear from the majority of the forum, there is a lot of good about the Revenant. The class does get a lot more sustainable once you get to Herald (if you’re on EU servers I’d be happy to help you get there), but it can be pretty sustainable on Jalis and perhaps Mallynx.
Rev is the only class with access to two heals so bear that in mind, as well as (again Herald) access to 90% of boons.

So, onto the meat of the post (I only discuss PVE for this, not PVP just as a note)

- What’s good: Boon access, party viability/buffing, good DPS (Sword, Staff, Hammer, Mace for conditions), pretty hard to take down once you get accustomed to the mechanics.

What’s bad: Rev tends to get a bad stigma in Raids because of people refusing anything other than meta-DPS-race and inability to think outside the box, the energy mechanic can be a bit limiting at times, having cooldowns + energy costs on weapons means you’ll need to keep an eye on your management, some of the skill costs are a bit too high (phase traversal, the alacrity skill for Ventari, staff #2).

In all honesty if you can manage your energy well, theres very little you can’t do.

Common builds – As you may have noted, people linked you to metabattle. You’ll find the “common” and “only accepted” build is sword skill spamming 1 and Shiro/Herald. You buff then use Shiro.
Myself personally, I have 3 builds setup – main (for all levels of content), Condi and Support.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlUQJAWin3gWNSuQrJRbo/ksP0gS4I6QJ4EdrkFNFidMrpN2FMhNsdABoBA-TBCBQBB4SAgRlBMSJYWU6ZIdB9b/BA8EAQo6PkCwrlRA-e

This gives me 100% boon duration and crit, great damage and tanking capability, high versatility (jalis for heal + elite 50% less damage taken, party buff too). I can switch for Mallynx if I need boon strip or perma blind, or Resistance. When paired with Staff I have breakbar anytime I need it, condi clear with traits and #4.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlUQJApnn3geNSuQvJRboHlsP0kS4I6SJ4EtrkFNFyugJshpd4DlodABoBA-TBCBQBeU5H62BYLLP8sTAg/0D4Q1fopSQA8AAIFAELrA-e

Condi for pumping out Torment and Burning, as well as more Might. If the enemy stays still you can stack Burning like no tomorrow, if they move then double the Torment damage. It really does have great potential (many will tell you otherwise, ignore and try for yourself)

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlUQJAWin3gmNSuQzJRboNlsP0oS4I6UJ4ENskFflxe3fLmdjRSZNgEaA-TxxGQBtRXgHVCqI1fI3lAoWK/Gy+DA4JAQKA/2bB-e

This will give you good boon duration, great healing + alacrity as a bonus, you can fight up close with staff or ranged with hammer. The DPS here doesn’t really matter, what you’ll be focusing on is essentially spamming your tablet move skill to keep up perma protection (hit F2 on every cooldown) on 5 party members along with heals and condi clear if you need it (breakbar damage on elite if necessary). You’ll have perma regen on allies too with the tablet being near. It’s great for being a backline support Rev if that’s what you want to do.

Does it play well in PVE/WVW – Yes to both. I started Rev when HoT opened and previously mained Guardian. I have never looked back, got a 3 full sets of Ascended and even did legendary journey for my Rev and have always loved the class.
In WVW I played “what am i” with enemies, essentially switching between power and condi to confuse people and winning most fights.

My experience has been great from start to even now, only once did I encounter a bug with sword #3 but never really ran into any of the issues the forum people often mention (perhaps I’m just lucky?). I thoroughly enjoy Rev and would highly recommend it.

Do I still play? Hell yes – feel free to add me

Muy.3170:

Revenant feels like it’s missing stuff still, should get a core set of skills that follow everything between dmg mitigation, condi cleanses, stun break and you could swap these 3 utilities between your existing legend. Mostly I think revenants just missing fun PvE rotations anyways it’s always spam auto attack or staff 5 on break bar and goes back to spamming auto. You never use the weapons to their full extent. That’s what players want when they say revenants boring or simple and lackluster. Heck improve the traits so a condition spec would actually work is another improvement of life feature revenant needs.

In a sense, Rev already has this. Staff 4 has Condi cleanse, Ventari has it, Jalis heal has it, you can trait it on legend switch.

Stun break I think other than maybe Ventari all of the legends have it, and again you can train stun break on legend switch.

Damage mitigation can be done through Shield, Sword, Staff and Hammer. To a degree Axe if you’re fast enough.

I personally main the staff and very rarely use the Sword because I find it a hell of a lot more fun. I constantly adapt my Rev to the situation around me (Do I switch to Ventari and use it’s Projectile absorb if I know there’s going to be heavy ranged damage? Do I switch to Mallynx for constant boon strip, which can also be traited (but requires 2+ boons to active), do I have Jalis ready for heal, damage resistance and condi clear?). I love that it’s such a flexible class, if you can pull out the utmost from it, it responds in kind.

Burtnik.5218:

Its Nerfing Time.1495:

XxsdgxX.8109:

Loading.4503:

Finally got back around to reading up on this thread, just go too serious for me, imma just go back to flinging hammers at people in wvw >.>

Here you got it right with Rev, it’s the only place where you could call it “good”. And that’s the only thing I’ve been doing as well since some of the PvP overnerfs didn’t make it to WvW. The occasional 9k with CoR on glass cannons is fun but most of the time you just keep landing 3k’s (Yes with CoR and while using Zerk/Marauders) because so much people is using tank gear like Minstrels and Trailblazer.

Please see above posts as to why Rev is “good” in places other than PVP (Yes WVW is PVP)

Revenant is outclassed in any role. The only reason why anyone would play rev nowdays is either they are being a masochist, some tryhard or some yolo full zerk spamming cor in wvw for lulz big nambars. Thats it, now stop spreading misinformation and go somewhere else.

Except it isn’t, and the only one spreading misinformation is you. I’ve seen you plenty of times in the Rev forum just flat out whining about how “rev is useless pls delete”.

Rev is perfectly fine outside of PVP. If you just aren’t good enough or willing to spend the time, that is your problem Burt. It has never been outclassed in it’s role because it’s role is so diverse.

XxsdgxX.8109:

Loading.4503:

Finally got back around to reading up on this thread, just go too serious for me, imma just go back to flinging hammers at people in wvw >.>

Here you got it right with Rev, it’s the only place where you could call it “good”. And that’s the only thing I’ve been doing as well since some of the PvP overnerfs didn’t make it to WvW. The occasional 9k with CoR on glass cannons is fun but most of the time you just keep landing 3k’s (Yes with CoR and while using Zerk/Marauders) because so much people is using tank gear like Minstrels and Trailblazer.

Please see above posts as to why Rev is “good” in places other than PVP (Yes WVW is PVP)

Loading.4503:

Finally got back around to reading up on this thread, just go too serious for me, imma just go back to flinging hammers at people in wvw >.>

That was my biggest concern from people just calling the Rev crap and not wanted. Like I’ve said earlier, give it a try out and see what you think of it, ignore the other comments

choovanski.5462:

Its Nerfing Time.1495:

It’s honestly rather amusing people seem to honestly, for whatever reason, think Rev is mediocre. Rev does not lose anywhere near the amount of DPS you seem to believe it does, and it’s certainly not outclassed.

QT run calculations for meta-speedrun, they do it very well. They even admit in their own posts for people not to take it so seriously though, and to play what they enjoy. It is not, as you have said, to be used as a means to justify anything other than Rev. Hence my point, if you aren’t going on QT meta-speedrun, then you are losing literally nothing bringing Rev, but you are gaining the ability to have multiple things in one raid slot. You are gaining the ability to let the Rev keep up boons longer, and let the DPS focus on DPS, the support on support.

Healing wise, it can bring 3 things. Heals, Protection and Alacrity. Where groups run two healing druids, they often don’t run two full heals. Since GOTL affects 10 now, you could easily run Rev/Druid for heal and protectio (I’ve done this in a group before to great effect).

The biggest issue here, is that everybody seems to be utterly obsessed with whats meta, what’s speedrun, what’s in or out decided by QT. That’s something that needs to change rather urgently.

well technically you can complete a raid on a character with no traits or gear equipped.

like, if you don’t care about efficiency, time taken or anything like that (which you don’t seem to) a class that does everything worse than the other is fine. but homes not caring about a class beings competitive does not make it competitive.

anyhow, meta will never be gone from mmos, people just like to make informed choices with success as the goal. since all the meta is is the most efficient way to do content as proven by research, people are always going to be interested.

Oh I more than understand there will always be a meta, and I have no issue with it either. The issue I have, is when people 100% insist on it and nothing else, and refuse to listen otherwise. If people want to play meta, be my guest. But don’t insist on it 100% and claim a class/race/item/insertxhere is useless when it isn’t, just because it doesn’t fit the current meta.

The whole “rev does nothing better” really needs to die off. Here’s a perfect example:

Game has 10 characters
Only 3 are deemed “meta quickrun viable”
Would you say it’s fine to only ever use the 3 “viable” no matter what? No matter what happens, is said or whatever, it’s those 3 or nothing? Even if the other are perfectly fine? They just won’t be accepted, and instead demonized because they aren’t in the three meta characters.

It’s honestly rather amusing people seem to honestly, for whatever reason, think Rev is mediocre. Rev does not lose anywhere near the amount of DPS you seem to believe it does, and it’s certainly not outclassed.

QT run calculations for meta-speedrun, they do it very well. They even admit in their own posts for people not to take it so seriously though, and to play what they enjoy. It is not, as you have said, to be used as a means to justify anything other than Rev. Hence my point, if you aren’t going on QT meta-speedrun, then you are losing literally nothing bringing Rev, but you are gaining the ability to have multiple things in one raid slot. You are gaining the ability to let the Rev keep up boons longer, and let the DPS focus on DPS, the support on support.

Healing wise, it can bring 3 things. Heals, Protection and Alacrity. Where groups run two healing druids, they often don’t run two full heals. Since GOTL affects 10 now, you could easily run Rev/Druid for heal and protectio (I’ve done this in a group before to great effect).

The biggest issue here, is that everybody seems to be utterly obsessed with whats meta, what’s speedrun, what’s in or out decided by QT. That’s something that needs to change rather urgently.

ArthurDent.9538:

They are the worst class in the game for raids because they lack a niche. With the sole exception of kiting hands at deimos, every raid comp could be improved by replacing rev with a better class. This makes rev bad in the sense it is bad relative to all the other classes, not in the sense it is so bad it can’t complete content. However since there is always a better option to rev, it does make completing raids harder since most groups will not accept you using one in the first place. Typically they will ask you to reroll, or just find someone else because why run with a decisively sub par class when there are plenty of pugs to choose from?

In what way does a class that can fill any role, lack a niche?

If the Rev can supplement and help other classes focus more on support or DPS, why is it a bad pick (we’re assuming no meta-speedrun mentality)?

I personally have never encountered this whole “groups will make you re-pick” and if I did, would not waste my time with them. The Rev is definitely not “sub par” in terms of a class.

I asked you what unique buff, which is what you stated. Might is not unique to Warriors ergo what buff exactly? If you’re talking about Empower Allies then that’s fine, but your post looks like you’re claiming Might only. Revs have Assassin’s Presence. My point was again which you fail to understand, is that Rev allows Warrior to focus less on Might generation and more on DPS.

Warrior brings more in what way exactly?

Condi Rev IS good, however my point stands proven – you are only interested in meta-speedrun and nothing else.

I haven’t oversold the Rev in any capacity, I’m stating what the Rev CAN actually do. You are underselling it because of your own prejudice towards meta builds and nothing else. There’s a big difference.

Corrected statement below:

Revenant is NOT wanted in raids when using meta-speedrun QT parties or guilds.

Your example of hurting the team is out and out a fallacy, if you aren’t interested in a speed run. Both parties get the kill, both parties move forward. If you are that obsessed by 30 seconds, PVE is not the place for you.

You can refuse to respond to me, it only shows you have nothing to discredit my claim with – that you are only interested in meta-speedrun tactics (despite you claiming otherwise). You do not need this to get ahead in the game, you do not need this to do or complete the game.

If your’e happy with cookie cutter builds and no imagination – be my guest.

If a new player wants actual input, they should ignore 98% of the Rev forum whining and actually try out the class, rather than reading all of the “mule class lols” comments and how it’s not wanted anywhere from posts like yours, because speed running and meta builds are not how the game was made nor intended. Player specific wants are not relevant.

XxsdgxX.8109:

Its Nerfing Time.1495:

Buran.3796:

Its Nerfing Time.1495:

Added on the extra tankiness from being a heavy class, the Glint heal and I can stay alive longer than other Condi’s thus to deal more DPS.

I just want to remark that the concept of heavy armor classes being “tankiest” than other classes is a bit overrated and certainly outdated. There’s less than 300 toughness points of difference between a full set of light and heavy armor which means that if a Warriors goes full zerker and a Mesmer goes full zerk minus the amulet and rings (chosing knight stats in them) the Mesmer toughness is higher. Passives (traits), skill selection and even the food has more impact in the tankiness of a character that the mere fact of being a clothes, leather or metal armor user.

In GW2 “armor” means just the kind of skins and looks that your character can display (and now even less, since the outfits introduction).

Whilst this is true, I’ve certainly had an easier time being Condi on Rev rather than my Engie or Ele.

Norjena.5172:

Nerfing Time is a troll isn´t he?
Condirev is worse then every other class in pve. And power is not much better.

I was so hyped with HoT and played 300hours on my rev in 2 month without playing any other class in that time.
But today? I complete the map with her cause she is close to 100%, for everything else the other classes are so much better….Power dps? I play engi, condi? ranger. Easy fractals? Guard….and so on.

So because you don’t actually have a legitimate answer, you have to claim I’m a troll? Looks like you don’t know how to build a Rev, let alone use one. Rev’s are perfectly fine, they work as power, condi or healing.
Unless you can actually answer a point, don’t bother responding or calling somebody a troll because you can’t answer.

Stop already please, we have already noticed what you are trying to do so you are not helping the class in the slightest.

And what exactly is it you think I’m trying to do? Bring in some positivity to the Rev forum which appears to be 98% “rev is bad in pvp/pve so don’t play it”? Force people to actually think and play the class? Maybe not have new players come in and get bombarded by “~class is kitten and junk tier lols”?

I’m helping it more than a lot of other people here. I don’t prejudge anybody’s gear, class or ability.

Buran.3796:

Its Nerfing Time.1495:

Added on the extra tankiness from being a heavy class, the Glint heal and I can stay alive longer than other Condi’s thus to deal more DPS.

I just want to remark that the concept of heavy armor classes being “tankiest” than other classes is a bit overrated and certainly outdated. There’s less than 300 toughness points of difference between a full set of light and heavy armor which means that if a Warriors goes full zerker and a Mesmer goes full zerk minus the amulet and rings (chosing knight stats in them) the Mesmer toughness is higher. Passives (traits), skill selection and even the food has more impact in the tankiness of a character that the mere fact of being a clothes, leather or metal armor user.

In GW2 “armor” means just the kind of skins and looks that your character can display (and now even less, since the outfits introduction).

Whilst this is true, I’ve certainly had an easier time being Condi on Rev rather than my Engie or Ele.

Norjena.5172:

Nerfing Time is a troll isn´t he?
Condirev is worse then every other class in pve. And power is not much better.

I was so hyped with HoT and played 300hours on my rev in 2 month without playing any other class in that time.
But today? I complete the map with her cause she is close to 100%, for everything else the other classes are so much better….Power dps? I play engi, condi? ranger. Easy fractals? Guard….and so on.

So because you don’t actually have a legitimate answer, you have to claim I’m a troll? Looks like you don’t know how to build a Rev, let alone use one. Rev’s are perfectly fine, they work as power, condi or healing.
Unless you can actually answer a point, don’t bother responding or calling somebody a troll because you can’t answer.

But you are saying it, and have been since the start. You claimed that Rev was unwanted in content, and that the best chance is without a Rev. You can clear all of the raid bosses with a Rev – there is no issue with Rev. You can clear all Fractals, dungeons, PVE content with Rev. The only time you don’t bring one, is if you want meta-speedclear-becausesomeguild/guysaidso mentality.

As for “popular opinion” – opinion at the end of the day is still opinion, majority ruled by meta speedclear mentality. That isn’t playing the game, nor is it even trying to. Instead its being bogged down because somebody elses opinion has been thrown around as fact and nobody else should go against it.
You right here, in this topic, claimed that Rev is detrimental – prove it. I’ve shown you why it isn’t.

You can though, because if the warrior has to worry less about constantly spreading and keeping up might, they can focus more on the DPS. Can they still banner? Yes. Do they need to? No.
What unique buff does Warrior provide exactly? Condi Rev can spew out might via #2 and #3. They have heavy Burning and Torment, along with some Poison.
Staff is most certainly not ever a “considerable” DPS loss. It is a slight DPS loss compared to Sword, but never has it been considerable.
My point was Rev has better CC > this still stands. So again, it allows Warrior to focus more on DPS.

Correct Druid doesn’t lose much with Tiger, however you’d want to switch to Moa for the CC and you can’t repeatedly switch pets with the cooldown. Rev can Fury AND CC, thus easing up what the others have to do.
Druid can provide GOTL and other DPS boosts, but better off not using Stone Spirit (Frost Spirit helps for Might and CC when needed).
Hammer Guard is very nice, but the DPS is slow(er) without Quickness. You can combo the two for Protection to a full 10 targets that I will say, but Rev allows for damage reduction as well as heals and cooldown reductions in one build, one spot.

In all the content and teams I’ve ever been in, can’t say I’ve ever had a DPS issue or race with others, and in all honesty – it doesn’t matter. Do things die? Yes. Do they die quickly enough? Yes. Raids and high level Fracs are about team work and balance, something a Rev really supplements and supports very well. Again, unless you’re running meta-dps-to-the-bottom-race you don’t need over-DPS or to simply boot out a class (or several).

This is my Condi build, and I regularly tear through enemies of all levels with it:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlUQJApnn3geNSuQvJRboHlsR0kS4H6SJ4EtrkFNFKtDfoEtLIANwugJshA-TBCBQB+TPA6WYYL7DQTlgP7EAAgHAgDV/xjK/IFAELrA-e

Added on the extra tankiness from being a heavy class, the Glint heal and I can stay alive longer than other Condi’s thus to deal more DPS.

Rev does no job worse than any other class, it allows other classes to focus more on what they’re doing rather than team boon sharing or support. It takes the pressure off and makes the job smoother – that’s the point of the class.
You still haven’t shown why it’s a detriment outside of the meta-speedrun. Bringing a Rev is no harm at all as explained by all of my above. It has never been outshadowed ever, to say so is absolutely laughable. It’s most certainly not unwanted outside of meta building for content, exclude that and it’s wanted.

I never stated people sucked, I stated people don’t know what they’re doing with it. How often do you see a Rev? Or better yet, somebody who mains a Rev 24/7? What I’ve regularly seen from PVP’ers when it comes to Rev is, it can be used at high level by somebody who is very, very good at it. The same applies to PVE. If you don’t know what you’re doing with something, it will reflect that.

My main intention is to shove off a lot of the negativity around Revs that I’ve seen here, which is almost appalling. The class is not bad, nor a detriment. It is a very rewarding, fun class to play with an enormous level of flexibility.

I built up three entire sets of Ascended and did a Legendary journey just for my Rev to be able to switch between roles at a moments notice regardless of what content I’m doing and where I am. I main Rev and have a fully built Druid and Guardian as my second and thirds. I’ve played every class bar Chrono (because I simply can’t find a build I’m happy with) and have never felt the freedom or flexibility that I have with Rev. To me, that seems like a class done right

Malchior.5732:

Its Nerfing Time.1495:

So other than the above, what reason can you come up with why you think Rev shouldn’t be in the group?

Simple.

Want Might? Take a PS Warrior. It has better DPS, better Might, it has Banners, Empower Allies, and it still has good CC.

Want Fury? Druid covers it alongside Mesmer.

Want Protection? Druid can bring some and Hammer Guard is higher DPS with perma-protection.

Want Healing? You don’t really need the extra healing that Ventari brings, but the buffs that a Druid brings are ridiculously good.

Want Alacrity? Don’t even bother with Ventari; just take a Chrono that also supplies Quickness.

Want Power Damage? Every other class aside from Necro deals more.

Want Condi damage? Don’t even bother with Revenant.

Next you’ll say that Revenant does a lot of things so therefore it’s good, but I’ll argue that there’s literally no reason for it because I’d rather have a class that does its job well instead of one class that does a lot of jobs badly.

In essence, you ARE a detriment to your team in most cases. Why take that Rev over anything else? There’s no reason. You’re almost always better off just taking the class the Rev is trying to replace anyway. This isn’t even about “speed run” tactics, it’s just about completing it. If my goal is to complete the raid (let alone get into the raid as most people wont accept a Revenant to begin with), I have better chances with something that’s proven to work very well than something that has proven to be sub-par at almost every job.

Tell me, why should you take a Revenant over anything else? Aside from kiting the hands on Deimos, I don’t see much of a reason except that you just want to have fun.
Can Revenant complete it? Of course, but you can also 4-man Gorseval. That doesn’t mean it’s the optimal strategy. Do I need to be optimal? Technically not, but I don’t want to be “that guy” that is being less useful that I can be just so I can use a Revenant.

Also, you guys haven’t really proven me wrong. Revenant IS unwanted. I never said it’s unviable.

Burden of proof, you have to prove yourself right rather than us you wrong. So far, you haven’t done that. So far all you’ve done is show the “meta must do as I say” style.

PS Warrior – Warrior can focus less on Banners with a Rev and more on DPS. CC Rev has better CC with Staff, Elite and Hammer, and can raise crit via Assassins Presence

Fury can be stacked by multiple classes, but Rev can allow for others to not have to worry about it and again, focus on DPS

Protection and healing – Rev can handle it in one, rather than splitting it out into two classes (Guardian and Druid) and for a bonus now provide Alacrity (it’s not great and I honestly thought that was a pretty dumb decision, but hey Anets ability to balance properly leaves much to be desired)

Power and Condi – Rev can deal good damage on both, and you absolutely should not write off the condi of a Rev. Burning and Torment can work nice together, very nice. You’d be surprised how fast it can rip through things when properly built, like anything else in the game.

The Rev does nothing badly, it does multiple things well – provided you know what you’re doing. It certainly is not a detriment ever to any content, which if you are unable to prove (which you currently aren’t) then your claim is bunk. If you base this solely on “what’s meta” then I’ll stop you right there – the meta is simply speed clearing, and speed clearing is not 100% bible. Game is not built around speed clears and meta builds. The meta also changes over time.

Being “that guy who is less useful because Rev” means they don’t know what they’re doing on Rev.

Malchior.5732:

Its Nerfing Time.1495:

Malchior.5732:

Dinsy.2491:

Been mainly Rev since HoT came out, played warrior/guardian and ele before but can’t go back to them for long. I don’t pvp so idk how it is there but rev is fine everywhere else. There’s a lot of room for improvement but all this drama recently like the “deleted rev today” thread all seems blown well out of proportion.

Rev is not fine everywhere else. It’s almost completely unwanted in raids.

Just because a class is “almost completely unwanted” in raids does not mean it’s not fine. To correct your statement, it’s “almost completely unwanted when running 100% QT bible meta runs”. Revs can do perfectly well in raids (I’ve used mine with 0 issues) if your party isn’t looking to be meta and speedclear.

I’d agree with the first guy, it’s definitely blown out of proportion.

To correct your statement, it’s almost completely unnecessary to ever use a Revenant in raids. Using one is usually a detriment to the group. Can you complete it? Sure, but you’re almost assuredly gimping the group. You’re also making it harder on yourself to get into a squad as most people don’t even want them.

That’s not fine at all. Revenant doesn’t bring anything to the table that isn’t covered better by other classes.

You forgot the words “in my opinion”. Using a Rev has never been and will never be a detriment.
As stated before, only those interested in “meta speed run” tactics, do not want xyz class/build including Rev. There is literally nothing detrimental by bringing a Rev. If you base this claim on “oh other classes can do that”. Yes, and?

Other classes can boon share, great, Rev can do it and leave the other classes free to go more DPS or heals.

Other classes can DPS more – you don’t need to speed run it, just complete it. Nobody really cares about getting it down in 5 minutes.

Rev can fill a void in any scenario, healing/condi/power as well as offer boons without sacrificing too far in either direction (unless healing as that’s all in).

So other than the above, what reason can you come up with why you think Rev shouldn’t be in the group?

Malchior.5732:

Dinsy.2491:

Been mainly Rev since HoT came out, played warrior/guardian and ele before but can’t go back to them for long. I don’t pvp so idk how it is there but rev is fine everywhere else. There’s a lot of room for improvement but all this drama recently like the “deleted rev today” thread all seems blown well out of proportion.

Rev is not fine everywhere else. It’s almost completely unwanted in raids.

Just because a class is “almost completely unwanted” in raids does not mean it’s not fine. To correct your statement, it’s “almost completely unwanted when running 100% QT bible meta runs”. Revs can do perfectly well in raids (I’ve used mine with 0 issues) if your party isn’t looking to be meta and speedclear.

I’d agree with the first guy, it’s definitely blown out of proportion.

In all honesty, a lot of the complaints about Rev come from the PVP/WVW scene. It’s no where near as bad as everybody makes it out to be. It’s a fun class and if you’re enjoying it then go for it.

I mained Guardian pre-hot, changed to Rev and never looked back.

Vicious Lacerations is used when you equip a Sword (if you should ever want to or need to i.e. with a Shield or Axe). You could take the bottom option but it has a 30 second icd (internal cooldown) so not quite so useful.

That build takes you to about 60% Crit, with Rolling Mists it becomes 100%

You honestly will be survivable enough with that gear. Master the staff, switching between heals and Glint timing and you’ll become almost un-killable in the content around

I’d disagree with the Staff not being used as a primary weapon, it can be a pretty nice one to use (not to mention not as boring as Sword #1 infinity times). I use this build to give me 100% boon uptime (combined with F2), 100% Crit and good survivability as well as damage:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQFAmn3gWNSuQrJRbo/ksP0gS4I6QJ4EdrkFNFqdABoBsjZNtxugJshA-TBCBQBGSHAAeAAlUJYWU61v9HwiygAcBAQo6PkCwrlRA-e

I have all weapons so can switch depending on the situation but tend to run Staff/Hammer. My build is good for team and single battling in PVE. I did some WVW for my Legendary and didn’t really encounter any issues either (I also switched to Condi in-between fights to confuse people).

The secondary legend I tend to run with is Jalis for heals + stoneskin, but you can switch to Mallynx for boon removal or Shiro for Quickness, it’s pretty flexible.

Vayne.8563:

Its Nerfing Time.1495:

Vayne.8563:

Its Nerfing Time.1495:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

VaLee.5102:

You also now have mandatory holy trinity as well if you want to succeed in top tier content. Not needed for open world content, but like I said that content it’s either old or not really relevant.

No, there’ is no “holy trinity” — there is a huge diversity of potential builds and team comps. I don’t see it any differently than people insisting on “zerker or bust” for dungeons, when that wasn’t necessary either.

Do you have for raids (and sometimes T4 Fracs):

Tank – Check
DPS – Check
Healer – Check

You have the holy trinity, not much you can do about it as it’s that straight forward and simple. I also wouldn’t go so far as to say there’s “a huge diversity” as people generally still tend to shoehorn into the same sort of builds.

But it’s always been that way for high level fractals and hard dungeons. It used to be zerker or get out. Now there’s more variety, not less.

Yes but his point was that there isn’t a holy trinity, when there is. I wouldn’t totally agree that it’s always been that way – you could easily do the old dungeons without zerker (it just wasn’t often as fast), it was something around 90-95% wanted zerk or gtfo.

Right now there’s power, condi, for offense (in which the only thing that’s changed is the stats of the gear being used), most likely Minstrel or Magi for healing, and tank depends on what you are really.

There’s a trinity in raids. I run fractals without a tank. Even T4 fractals.

Is why I said sometimes in T4 ;P I’ve never seen it myself but a friend has said he joined a group and they were expecting raid-like efficiency.

Vayne.8563:

Its Nerfing Time.1495:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

VaLee.5102:

You also now have mandatory holy trinity as well if you want to succeed in top tier content. Not needed for open world content, but like I said that content it’s either old or not really relevant.

No, there’ is no “holy trinity” — there is a huge diversity of potential builds and team comps. I don’t see it any differently than people insisting on “zerker or bust” for dungeons, when that wasn’t necessary either.

Do you have for raids (and sometimes T4 Fracs):

Tank – Check
DPS – Check
Healer – Check

You have the holy trinity, not much you can do about it as it’s that straight forward and simple. I also wouldn’t go so far as to say there’s “a huge diversity” as people generally still tend to shoehorn into the same sort of builds.

But it’s always been that way for high level fractals and hard dungeons. It used to be zerker or get out. Now there’s more variety, not less.

Yes but his point was that there isn’t a holy trinity, when there is. I wouldn’t totally agree that it’s always been that way – you could easily do the old dungeons without zerker (it just wasn’t often as fast), it was something around 90-95% wanted zerk or gtfo.

Right now there’s power, condi, for offense (in which the only thing that’s changed is the stats of the gear being used), most likely Minstrel or Magi for healing, and tank depends on what you are really.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

VaLee.5102:

You also now have mandatory holy trinity as well if you want to succeed in top tier content. Not needed for open world content, but like I said that content it’s either old or not really relevant.

No, there’ is no “holy trinity” — there is a huge diversity of potential builds and team comps. I don’t see it any differently than people insisting on “zerker or bust” for dungeons, when that wasn’t necessary either.

Do you have for raids (and sometimes T4 Fracs):

Tank – Check
DPS – Check
Healer – Check

You have the holy trinity, not much you can do about it as it’s that straight forward and simple. I also wouldn’t go so far as to say there’s “a huge diversity” as people generally still tend to shoehorn into the same sort of builds.