Guild Wars 2

roqoco.4053:

Having a load of boring farmers who don’t want to play the game, but exploit some cash loop hole is probably as bad as having bots. The game is meant to be cooperative +not some opportunity for boring drones to farm digital cash and ignore everything else in the game.+

There is no cash “loophole” and other than your obvious bias against farmers, your first argument holds no water.

I’m going to need a citation for the second portion. Without a citation, I’m going to assume you’re referring to Anet’s stated desire to keep the game friendly to casual players.

roqoco.4053:

Farmers are almost as bad as botters in their effect on the economy so it makes sense to try to avoid the economy problems that other MMOs (and GW1) had with farming. Just play the game for a reasonable time and you get quite enough stuff anyway – too much in my opinion. In addition I reckon that magic find should be heavily nerfed or removed; its a mechanism that increases already high drop rates and devalues everything on the TP.

IMOP itemisation & drops is something that still needs a lot of work.

Sorry if you can’t then get your exotic armor in a couple of days of farming – but what is it that you intend to do in the game once you do get it?

Huh? Wow…umm…

Where do I begin? How about I skip to the end which pretty much points out where you’re really coming from?

Your last quote is the most revealing of your true intentions behind making such a questionably supported argument above. Your issue is with people having the time and dedication to spend on getting high level gear within a short amount of time.

Word of advice: If that’s your issue, MMOs are not for you. Nothing wrong with a little envy, but if that’s causing you to have a clouded sense of judgment, you’re playing the wrong game.

roqoco.4053:

@deal with the bots

There’s really no essential difference from the economy’s point of view between a bot and someone standing there spamming skills. They both negatively impact the economy and other players. So, any measures they take against botting that also effect farmers are very welcome in my opinion.

Also it seems, some players have to be lead to the water and made to drink – playing the game is surely much more enjoyable than standing in some spot (or doing some rote schedule) farming materials all day.

What exactly is it that you farmers want to get out of a game?

Not a convincing argument at all, you’re relying on your own subjective interpretation of what MMO’ing should be about.

Newsflash: You shouldn’t outright assume there’s a right way to farm just because it’s how you enjoy doing it.

There are hundreds, perhaps thousands of RPGs and MMO RPGs out there. An overwhelming number of them are grindy. I’m not calling for GW to stick with what’s tried and true per se, but games of both genres have always had many options for farming and obtaining desired items. As far as I can remember, no game company has taken it upon themselves to punish long-haul players who grind the same boss for obvious reasons. The philosophy that there is no one wrong way to play the game has always held true.

Now herein lies the problem. You’re expressing an issue you have with the way the game is played. Your issue is you think the game is meant to be played a specific way. So claiming grinding the same DE over and over is not how the game is meant to be played is like criticizing someone for rewatching the same TV show or movie repeatedly. Here’s the thing: Some don’t mind it at all, and _you _ shouldn’t be having a problem with it.

Cameirus.8407:

I think drop caps are great, the encourage you to move around and not sit there farming the same mobs over and over.

Nothing more annoying for a player trying to do a heart task or DE than to find some farmer endlessly killing the same mobs.

I think the reduced drop rates, and bonus XP for monsters who have been alive for longer is a really elegant mechanic Anet put in.

Wat? How on Earth can you possibly enjoy being pushed around by a cattle prod to engage in an form of conduct that should be voluntary?

And what’s so annoying about seeing players grind the same DE? What issue do you have with others’ actions as long as what they’re doing isn’t prohibited?

Elegant…how?

TheUnNamedHero.4167:

Jack.1469:

Latinkuro.9420:

Deboog.1847:

Latinkuro.9420:

- No same sex marriages.

In b4 flame war. I would remove this before people start getting mad at you. Besides, sense virtual marriages are meaningless, there’s no reason to not allow same sex marriages, for both serious and for the lulz purposes.

I should’ve listened yo you !!!
to many idiots twisting my words around already !!
I reported the thread myself !!!

You make a statement, you own up to it. Many of us have heard people like you use similar words and justifications for an animus against same-sex couples. It’s not really twisting your words if we’ve heard identical arguments and can easily point out why they’re really bad. Maybe it just shows people of your type need to come up with sounder arguments.

You decide.

Actually that is twisting someone’s words. When you drag prepositional baggage, i.e. what others have said, and put it onto someone’s words, then the context of the argument isn’t about what they said but what others have said.

Would you like to explain to us how “prepositional baggage” is being dragged out and inserted into someone else words, or are you just engaging in a prospective fishing expedition?

RE: Not to mention the spectacular PR disaster that would result in the announcement of a great new feature that is purposely designed to exclude a certain demographic.

I’d be hesitant to boycott Anet over this, but I do admit this would really change how I view the company based on their willingness to go this route.

Latinkuro.9420:

Deboog.1847:

Latinkuro.9420:

- No same sex marriages.

In b4 flame war. I would remove this before people start getting mad at you. Besides, sense virtual marriages are meaningless, there’s no reason to not allow same sex marriages, for both serious and for the lulz purposes.

I should’ve listened yo you !!!
to many idiots twisting my words around already !!
I reported the thread myself !!!

You make a statement, you own up to it. Many of us have heard people like you use similar words and justifications for an animus against same-sex couples. It’s not really twisting your words if we’ve heard identical arguments and can easily point out why they’re really bad. Maybe it just shows people of your type need to come up with sounder arguments.

You decide.

Latinkuro.9420:

You are the one that mentioned hatred dude !!!

Hate to disagree with you, but trav is right. The bans some countries have on same-sex marriage originated as a result of the dominant demographic’s distaste for a minority group’s affiliation, which in this case is sexual orientation. Their justification was the same as yours: It was the “norm” of the majority and thus how the world worked.

There’s just one problem. This “norm” was created and encouraged by the majority, often times a religious majority, even while the minority was often composed of those who don’t espouse a belief system. Basically, these same-sex couples were forced to adhere to the laws and norms of the majority group in spite of being nonpractitioners.

Not allowing for same-sex marriage would make sense if the point of the game was to deny reality and create a utopia where same-sex marriages don’t exist. But I don’t think that’s the case.

Your argument basically boils down to your belief same-sex marriage shouldn’t be allowed if marriage is introduced into the game because it doesn’t fit into your preference, even though same-sex marriage as an institution wouldn’t have any effect on you. Furthermore, you’re more or less advocating that we teach our children that same-sex couples shouldn’t receive equal rights as heterosexual couples.

If we were to use that logic in other areas, we could just as well introduce racial hierarchies into the game. We could have one race be the rich, dominant one that controls everything, from the media, the military, and many other aspects of life. We could have other races be weaker, dumber, and inferior, because hey, that’s the “norm” people see on television and believe, right? If the dominant group is showing on TV that a certain races are weaker and inferior because that’s a part of the norm, why don’t we have the same dynamic used in GW? [Protip: I find it funny how conservatives are closet racists and never publicly admit to being so, but they’re okay with bashing gays]

Bottom line: Telling people we shouldn’t allow same-sex marriages just because you incorrectly think it isn’t the “norm” of the world isn’t a compelling reason to not allow same-sex marriage if marriage gets introduced. Sorry, you’re not making any convincing arguments. You’re just risking coming off as a bigoted nutcase.

Latinkuro.9420:

Jack.1469:

Runescape much?

SAO is awesome BTW.

I know the name Runescape and tried it for like oh what the better part of 5 minutes no idea why so many millions of people play that crappy game anyway seriously.

yeah SAO is amazing indeed one of the best anime’s to come out in recent years if you ask me.

I believe marriages were able to be conducted in Runescape. Same-sex marriages were allowed.

Interesting idea, $10 says Anet’s at least thought about it during conference meetings.

Lichy.6014:

its nice to enter a fantasy world and actually talk with other people WITH YOUR MOUTH instead of engage in a writing session, sure. i can see why you would want it.

i’m only afraid of 6 year old kids who run around screaming in high pitched voices

XBox live did teach us many lessons!

Reynfall.1547:

No thanks. It’s one of the reasons I was disgusted with Perfect World. It’s creepy.

If Anet decides not to incorporate this idea, I think this will be one of the biggest reasons. While I like the fact that we’re approaching the day when we’ll see virtual reality, some people wouldn’t be so comfortable about bridging the gap between virtual reality and real life. It might be turnoff to many.

And of course, there’s the fact that Anet needs/wants to maintain this game’s foci and theme. Hacking up monsters, crafting armor, PvP’ing, and questing.

Runescape much?

SAO is awesome BTW.

Right-click, invite other person to participate in an in-game voice chat session. Include option to include multiple people for a conference call-style discussion. Feature should be built directly into the game and should just require a microphone.

Only issue I’d have is dealing with creepers. Weird stuff has happened as a consequence of in-game communications. I’m sure at least one MMORPG maker has considered this option but abandoned it upon thinking carefully about the issues with graying the gap between reality and real life!

Still an idea worth entertaining, even if this gets incorporated into an integrated guild voice chat feature. Not many people in my guild are inclined to use teamspeak which I suspect is at least in part due to them not wanting to go through the hassle of configuring it with no guarantee they’ll meet many people. Including an integrated guild voice chat feature would only increase the opportunity for these players to come on board and check it out more easily.

The possibilities are endless. There should be a casino town or two. Players can participate in Polymock matches (from GW1, but hey, poker’s existed since forever, so why not?) and bet on or participate in Golem matches.

These might be some great ideas in the next expansion.

Pharaoh.2691:

Thanks Jack for recrencing my post on reddit!

I just want to say that while it might upset people i think we all are just curious on how it works and what we can do as players (not robots) in order to prevent us from hitting such limit. I understand that people want to freedom to grind out what they want but if Anet is unwilling to change the bot i would just like, for my own personal farming, to know what i can do to optimize my route.

I hate calling for representative attention but even if I don’t see any sort of feedback for weeks to come, at some point i am sure all players would like to know exactly what measures are in place to stop bots and what humans can do to avoid being mistaken for one.

Agreed. Once Anet gives us a response, then we can decide whether to brandish the pitchforks and oil the torches.

But while a brief explanation of what’s going on in the loot department would go a long way toward easing our minds and keeping the line open, I really hope a solution of some sort is still forthcoming.

Blizzard as an example did a very poor job of keeping customers informed about the security issues. There were numerous threads created in the D3 forums where players detailed their account hackings. Those threads were never responded to and were always promptly deleted by the mods. I remember it was quite a while before Blizzard finally made the announcement that D3 account hackers were likely obtaining passwords to accounts from other forums where victims had been using identical e-mails and passwords.

But it’s not just the poor timing that piqued the community. It was their solutions. Blizzard’s solution was to require that everyone buy an authenticator or download the app onto their smartphone. In other words, post-purchase, Blizzard created an extra hassle for owners who’d paid $59.99 and hadn’t been expecting this. As for the victims? they treated the victims as though they’d hacked their own accounts. They informed victims that they could have one account rollback with no consequence. But if a second rollback were necessary, the account would be banned completely from participating in the real money auction house. I can attest both from personal experience as someone who got hacked pre-authenticator installation and has spoken with many others in the forums that these incidents left an indelible stain on the image of Blizzard we’d held since the days of Warcraft 2 and Starcraft.

I’ve been a loyal customer of Anet for 4 years. I forgave them back in the days of GW1 for not having the means to roll back my account after I got hacked once. But this time, the stakes are higher. We’d really like a prompt response and possibly a workable solution.

I also have to say that in light of all that’s been said, I genuinely hope this relationship remains a lasting one!

Although it would be nice to have a mod reply, I’m not demanding or expecting it. I’m more so concerned with having this issue addressed in some way, shape, or form.

I think it’s notable that Diablo 3’s treatment of monster kills deserves some attention for its contrast, differing game dynamics notwithstanding. They have multiple ways for players to build up magic find boosts for killing champ mobs over long periods of times. No penalty system in place to discourage players from playing for long hours—Blizzard actually recognizes that RPGs are grindy and from what we’ve seen in recent patches, are doing overtime actually to accommodate this expectation.

I’m surprised this is even allowed to happen. This feature worked as intended in GW1.

Nyra.3679:

Was farming up in the northern part of Frostgorge earlier today, starting way off to the northwest in Drakkar Waypoint and slowly making my way east, participating in any events (Quaggan stuff) along the way. I popped my 30m magic find food buff once I arrived, but once I hit roughly ~10min left on the buff, drop rates dramatically decreased. I was barely even seeing gray vendor trash show up, despite having a full runed set of magic find gear.

Frustrated, I left and went to Cursed Shore, hoping for some better luck. I started at Caer Shadowfain, popping my food buff as I arrived, following the main road south and killing/gathering things and doing events (including the very popular one at Shelter’s Gate) along the way. Same story; after about 20 min, drops just dried up. I heard Grenth was up so I made my way across the river, getting nothing from the risen pirates, tar elementals, drakes, and other things along the way. My server failed the event so I didn’t get to see what drops would’ve been like during the ~6 min defense after, but I imagine it wouldn’t have been any good.

My experience is just a small one in the grand scheme of things, but I feel that ANet’s anti-botting measures have gone too far, especially if they can kick in within the duration of a 30m food buff.

Thanks for the anecdote, and yes, your experiences are very much similar to mine. And the last paragraph especially brings up an excellent point. Why the hell did Anet create recipes for 30 minutes of magic find boost if they were going to end up becoming useless after 10-20 minutes?!

Now, before someone replies “It’s to force players to vary their monster kills and allow them enough time to get to different areas and kill different monsters” let me remind you that GW2’s premise is about freedom to choose your style of play. Love PvP and competing with others and hate farming? Organize your guild, get on teamspeak, and win at WvW! Are you a casual player who doesn’t care for getting 400/400 in the smiths and doesn’t mind spending real money on goods? Buy crystals with cash!

This cap on monster kills ends up becoming a pointlessly narrow restriction on a player’s freedom to play the game as he pleases within the reasonable parameters of fairness!

Draygo.9473:

They are required to remove the items that they exploited or botted in the terms of the unban.

If they do not do this, their account will be locked with no chance for appeal.

The account is also marked or flagged forever.

This. I think the currently less harsh system is preferable. Give them a warning and a perma flag. The smart ones will learn. The less fortunate will be perma-banned

More and more of us are noticing significant declines in drop rates after about 20-30 minutes of farming the same monsters or dynamic event. Magic find gear doesn’t go far enough to alleviate the problem!

I understand the concern with botting, but unless your intent is to drive players toward the trading post, I’m afraid this anti-bot script of yours may be penalizing legitimate players!!

Here’s one anecdote with a starting analysis someone posted on Reddit.

The conclusions haven’t been definitely proven, but it closely lines up with what many of us have been experiencing.

EDIT: Typo.